Shockingly, the liberals on this forum don't seem interested in the latest bombshells on their hero.

Fortunately for them, I'm here to make sure they stay more well-informed than your average Vote Blue No Matter Who automaton.

Wednesday, 8:30 AM ET: Live Commentary on Anthony Fauci Hearing With Dr. Matt Bivens, by @mtaibbi https://t.co/jOrDRcMlSL pic.twitter.com/Er8xriVaNm

— Matt Taibbi (@mtaibbi) July 28, 2026

Quote:

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"The Farrar phone call was different. The people on the phone felt that the mutations around the furin cleavage site of the spike protein could not have occurred naturally since it would require an evolutionary jump that they found nowhere in bat isolates. They bring up the possibility that this could have been deliberately inserted and either accidentally released or deliberately released by a crazy person in the lab, the former being the most likely."

From the diaries of Dr. Anthony Fauci, January 31, 2020

---

Quote:

---

Dr. Anthony Fauci never told the president, the media, Congress, anyone about any evidence suggesting the Covid-19 pandemic was caused by a lab accident or leak from the Wuhan Institute in China. The public was deceived about this, not just by Dr. Fauci but by much of the scientific community. The consequences of that decision have still not been wrestled with, considering the millions of deaths worldwide.

"That's the story here," says former CDC Director, Dr. Bob Redfield. "It was created by science. That scientific decision had more consequences of loss of human life than all nuclear bombs.

On the heels of Senator Rand Paul's release of hundreds of pages of Fauci's personal diaries, the former head of NIAID will testify before the Homeland Security and Government Affairs Committee tomorrow beginning at 8:30 AM ET. It's hard to remember a more consequential Congressional standoff. Will Fauci offer any new information? Will he be more candid about the origins of the pandemic? Will he hide behind piles of "I don't recall" answers? One imagines the latter is most likely, but there is a chance for real drama tomorrow.

---

Quote:

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The House Select Subcommittee on the Coronavirus Pandemic retrieved the private slack discussions of five scientists Dr. Kristian Andersen, Dr. Robert Garry, Dr. Andrew Rambaut, Dr. Edward Holmes, and Dr. Ian Lipkin who authored a crucial paper for Nature Medicine called "The proximal origin of SARS-CoV-2," which became the chief reference for news media in establishing a natural or zoonotic origin for the Covid-19 virus. Whenever any news outlet speculated that the disease might have originated as, say, a lab accident, the "Proximal Origin" paper was cited as the authority to shoot it down.

---

Quote:

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In a normal media environment these texts would have prompted an all-out investigation into what happened in the U.S. health bureaucracies. Why were so many high-ranking officials steered away from any investigation of the Wuhan laboratory? Why were four (at least) different U.S. government agencies funding work at a Chinese military lab? How was it that so-called gain-of-function research appeared to be continuing with American backing, long after a moratorium had been announced? Last but not least, why was the press so unwilling to investigate Fauci, who as far back as 2011 printed an article in the Washington Post arguing that "important information and insights can come from generating a potentially dangerous virus in the laboratory," insights whose benefits outweighed the risks even of a pandemic

---

The diary entries for Fauci, for reference

2/9 Jan. 26, 2020. Fauci writes in his diary: "Now we know the market was not the source, it was the amplifier."

That is January of 2020. The wet market was already off the table in his own private notes. pic.twitter.com/mz0OzcPHgg

— Senator Rand Paul (@SenRandPaul) July 25, 2026

4/9 Feb. 3, 2020. Fauci calls George Gao, head of China's CDC.

Gao confirms asymptomatic people transmit. Fauci writes that Wuhan health officials "did not tell him this and he thus gave out false information," a lapse that "likely allowed the outbreak to take hold."

— Senator Rand Paul (@SenRandPaul) July 25, 2026

6/9 May 23, 2021. Fauci calls the lead author of Proximal Origin — the paper he'd been citing publicly as independent science — for reassurance about his own NIH grant.

His diary: "I feel much better now that he is in total support of what I have been saying." pic.twitter.com/Palg50H1R5

— Senator Rand Paul (@SenRandPaul) July 25, 2026

8/9 July 7: Fauci tells the NSC to go work with Andersen, Holmes, Garry, and Rambaut.

Same day, Andersen and Garry post a paper arguing natural origin. Next morning it's in his diary, alongside the CNN write-up.

He pointed the NSC at the authors, then tracked their press. pic.twitter.com/bmuNZkGfWM

— Senator Rand Paul (@SenRandPaul) July 25, 2026

Read it all here: https://t.co/Dn1SyIWncB

— Senator Rand Paul (@SenRandPaul) July 25, 2026

Trivia Question 1:

Who was the CEO of the French Company that designed the Level 4 Wuhan Lab that leaked Covid 19?

Question 2:

What coronavirus research Company did he then become the CEO of in 2011, during construction of the Wuhan Level 4 Lab?

Question 3:

What biotech fund was the main investor in that coronavirus company?

Question 4:

What was the name of the FDA head who greenlighted the first coronavirus vaccines and, against the wishes of his chief vaccine head, greenlighted them for use on children, leading his chief to resign?

Question 5:

What biotech fund then hired that now ex FDA head and made them rich?


Question 6:

What is the net worth of the CEO in the answer of question #1?

bearister said:

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Fauci may be a bad guy. Who are the most credible individuals with solid reputations for honesty and objectivity that support these attacks on Fauci?

Liberals need to read quotes and articles from those that are on that list so that they can be persuaded.

---

Oski003.

tequila4kapp said:

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oski003 said:

---

Trivia Question 1:

Who was the CEO of the French Company that designed the Level 4 Wuhan Lab that leaked Covid 19?

Question 2:

What coronavirus research Company did he then become the CEO of in 2011, during construction of the Wuhan Level 4 Lab?

Question 3:

What biotech fund was the main investor in that coronavirus company?

Question 4:

What was the name of the FDA head who greenlighted the first coronavirus vaccines and, against the wishes of his chief vaccine head, greenlighted them for use on children, leading his chief to resign?

Question 5:

What biotech fund then hired that now ex FDA head and made them rich?


Question 6:

What is the net worth of the CEO in the answer of question #1?

---

Answers, please

---

Who was the CEO of the French Company that designed the Level 4 Wuhan Lab that leaked Covid 19?

Stephen Bancel

Question 2:

What coronavirus research Company did he then become the CEO of in 2011, during construction of the Wuhan Level 4 Lab?

Moderna

Question 3:

What biotech fund was the main investor in that coronavirus company?

Flagship Pioneering

Question 4:

What was the name of the FDA head who greenlighted the first coronavirus vaccines and, against the wishes of his chief vaccine head, greenlighted them for use on children, leading his chief to resign?

Stephen Hahn

Question 5:

What biotech fund then hired that now ex FDA head and made them rich?

Flagship Pioneering

Question 6:

What is the net worth of the CEO in the answer of question #1?

2-4 Billion, 99% earned as head of Moderna, who got their COVID EUA in December 2020, only one week after Pfizer. Pfizer and Moderna would then basically have a monopoly on Covid vaccines, earning Bancel billions.

Fauci getting the Mueller/Smith hero treatment

In the Trump era, corporate media personalities and liberals venerated Trump's opponents as secular deities who can't be questioned.

They did it with Robert Mueller, then Jack Smith, a whole range of #Resistance/Never-Trump mediocrities, but most damagingly of all with Tony… https://t.co/Ko7aj2dl8w

— Glenn Greenwald (@ggreenwald) July 28, 2026

CNN didn't want to touch this topic either

Here's what happened when @LydiaMoynihan dared to bring up the Fauci diary on CNN.

Abby Phillip immediately shuts it down. Not allowed to be discussed. pic.twitter.com/Nm4sJjqM5t

— Western Lensman (@WesternLensman) July 28, 2026

The Bee is on fire

"In hindsight, that might have been a mistake." https://t.co/j1fPXH7i7o pic.twitter.com/3ELD0biXhb

— The Babylon Bee (@TheBabylonBee) July 27, 2026

Aunburdened said:

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The Bee is on fire

"In hindsight, that might have been a mistake." https://t.co/j1fPXH7i7o pic.twitter.com/3ELD0biXhb

— The Babylon Bee (@TheBabylonBee) July 27, 2026

---

Self-explanatory

I see a big nothing burger on this. We are at war and our economy sucks due to DJT, those are the real
Issues. As for these diaries, nothing found wrong by law or policy.

Summed up:

the documents contain no actual bombshells or evidence of illegal activity:

No Policy Violations: A simultaneous release of federal ethics reviews concerning Fauci's awards and prize money did not find any ethics violations or illegal conduct.

Human Reactions to Stress: Supporters argue it is entirely normal for a human being thrown into unprecedented global fame to document that chaos, stress, and media whirlwind in a private diary.

Standard Scientific Evolution: debating the lab leak theory privately while waiting for definitive scientific consensus publicly is how standard crisis management works, rather than a proof of a cover-up.

Political Distraction: Reviving six-year-old COVID-19 grievances is a political stunt by Republicans to avoid discussing current economic and foreign policy issues.

Aunburdened said:

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Fortunately for them, I'm here to make sure they stay more well-informed than your average Vote Blue No Matter Who automaton.

---

I look forward to reading your post.
But I have to interrupt and point out that this countries political structure has it that there are only two parties, and one party, with an amazing adherence to uniformity, is led by an insane Criminal, thief, warmonger, liar, immoral womanizer, idiot….you know the screed.

So, that leaves only one option: vote blue.

Sorry, I just can't not say anything when someone glosses over the most important thing in the last ten years: do not allow Trump any daylight.

Once he's gone we can truly evaluate.

There is no glossing over. This topic isn't about Trump. This topic is about Fauci, and the allegation / belief that he lied and conspired about the origin source, likely for financial reasons. There is also the point that GoF research was banned but he seemingly signed off on funding that found ways around that law. If true, he's effectively a murderer of over a million Americans. And then there's the pesky potential problem of a scientist lying to us (remember Trust The Science?). Those allegations are serious, worthy of discussion and fully independent of whoever occupied the White House (potentially other than the fact one president preemptively pardoned Fauci).

I am not sure of the allegations, personally. There's certainly smoke but - to mix metaphors - I want to see the receipts. I am pretty troubled by that Feb 2000 entry saying they know the market was not the source. Was that journal entry a point in time observation? If so, where is the subsequent alternative evidence? How did the origin affect treatment, if at all?

Help a guy out who has never understood this obsession.

1) the origins of the virus. I can go either way on this. It doesn't surprise me that we could see interspecies transmission of a new virus but I am NOT a virologist. I am more of a student of modern chinese politics so it also wouldn't surprise me if it was an accidental release from a bio lab in china. That background of work also leads me to believe that the LAST thing the Chinese would have done is cooperate with us on investigating origins. So layered on a pandemnic would have been the gravest crisis among nuclear armed states since 1962. Oh great! And for what end? Does the origin story save a single life? I would love to hear the hypothetical.

2) Attacking doing science as conspiracy. From a CAL board it pisses me mildly off that alumni won't let scientists do what they do - be uncertain, grapple with difficult data to understand, go down dead ends. Rethink hypothesis. You know....do science. I look at what I can spend the mental energy on with these contemporaneous notes and say "Good, they are trying in real time in a crisis to do good science.

Finally, this is NOT to agree with the subsequent public health response. I think during it we saw really a weakness in our system - that the epidemiologists were provided a privileged position and that trade offs were not considered. Yes. More people would have died....but the evidence is also clear that closing schools for as long as we did had profound effects on students. Those are AWFUL moral choices but many in the public health community - largely those from the epi side of the house - didn't grapple with them because (my opinion) they dismiss the social sciences. We will live with that blindness for some times.

THAT, I wish, was the focus. Because the country SHOULD grapple with the knock on effects of our response. It would be more mature to recognize that there was no good answer. That "science" is about uncertainty and the slow grinding toward "truth" that will always been imperfect (we call them "models" and "Theories" for a reason). That will matter the next time.....not, I think, whether it was a bat or the PRC which would NEVER have admitted a mistake because that is NOT the way they operate (and indeed, would be an existential threat to the regime in their eyes). We can gladly start a new thread about the real challenges of the PRC governing ethos.

Edit
And in one of the more predictable moments ever he evokes the 5th.

tequila4kapp said:

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There is no glossing over. This topic isn't about Trump. This topic is about Fauci, and the allegation / belief that he lied and conspired about the origin source, likely for financial reasons.

---

Good morning.
I appreciate your longer summary so I could understand a bit better why we are revisiting this Covid/Fauci issue. That is the main point of this thread, I agree.

However, lest I be accused of thread hijacking, the OP in SENTENCE #2 wrote "your average Vote Blue No Matter Who automaton". So, I think that it's fair to address the nasty slur that shows up as a way to discredit those of us who vote blue no matter what these days! As if we are automated without a brain.
And I'm sorry, but it really upsets me.

My family is Republican big time, going back decades. As I've written here, we have weak associations with Ike, Nixon, Reagan, Bush, many senators and representatives…. I once opened the door and welcomed Ollie North in for a meeting during his punishment era.

In college, I met my wife. Her near-Newport RI family loved the Kennedys, and her father won local town elections as a Democrat. But they are conservative democrats, which is common if you understand New England. It forced me to not look at party affiliations but ISSUES!

I also got a job appointment in one of the Senate committees which helped me understand politics better.

So I'll stop there before I truly hijacked this thread with a repetition of why I hate Trump and why I vote blue.
It is not a brainless automated response. It is well thought out from life experience and education.

How ironic, however, that that is the accusation.
I have spent countless hours in countless OT threads processing my understanding of the psychology of group affiliation and one's personal identity adherence to anything from religion to sports team fanaticism to political party affiliation. And I actually think that's exactly how we ended up with Trump. Most people, including Republicans, think he's nuts, yet they vote Republican because they ARE Republican, and they've been psychologically conditioned to despise trigger words associated with the other party, Democrats.
THAT is being an automaton!

Obviously, such mental conditioning happens on both sides! But not with me. I vote blue for well thought out reasons, which I post about regularly! Issues. Not Party.

I challenge republicans to take an honest eat look at the leader of the Republican party and how their elected official follow him like automaton peons. See y'all in November 2026 and 28 when he predictably (pre-announced) tries to cheat and rig the results. We'll be revisiting Jan 6 in a catastrophe which the history books will have fun with, questioning why people didn't learn anything.

Remove sentence #2 of the OP and this post never happens.
Back to Fauci and Covid.

Fin

tequila4kapp said:

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This topic is about Fauci, and the allegation / belief that he lied and conspired about the origin source, likely for financial reasons.

---

I'm sorry, but I honestly am not able to follow the logic of the above sentence. It seems like so much conspiracy theory connecting the dots.

You know, the House held a series a structured , well thought through hearings with testimony so that the American public might follow the through lines of what happened on Jan 6. How could that have occurred?

Maybe if someone spells it out for me in a bipartisan manner….
But otherwise I just view the revisitation of this at this time as a political smoke screen before November.

Let's not focus on $40T debt.
Let's not focus on the Iran War.
Let's not focus on Hormuz and the price of gas.
Let's not focus on Trump family enrichment in so many arenas.

Let's reach into the bag of whatever is going to excite and distract the electorate.

Nobody believes the lies about Obama's birth certificate anymore.
Nobody cares about an email server in a closet of Hillary's.
Nobody is nervous about a president's drug addicted son, Biden.

Ah! Let's get Fauci!!! He'll be our devil!

I think Covid is not conspiratorial. It just happened. And many intelligent scientists tried to respond. Just like with the Spanish Flu pandemic a hundred years before.

But, have at it. The more you/they try to convince the more you/they will believe. That's the way these things work in the brain.
It's a fascinating process. Why we come to think the way, the things, we do.

Did you know that people will become so fanatical about (religion, national, family…any social bond) that they will actually Fight/Die/Kill for it - even when later on the thing they aligned themselves with turns out to be bunk/unholy/immoral…?

socaltownie said:

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2) Attacking doing science as conspiracy. From a CAL board it pisses me mildly off that alumni won't let scientists do what they do - be uncertain, grapple with difficult data to understand, go down dead ends. Rethink hypothesis. You know....do science. I look at what I can spend the mental energy on with these contemporaneous notes and say "Good, they are trying in real time in a crisis to do good science.

Finally, this is NOT to agree with the subsequent public health response. I think during it we saw really a weakness in our system - that the epidemiologists were provided a privileged position and that trade offs were not considered. Yes. More people would have died....but the evidence is also clear that closing schools for as long as we did had profound effects on students. Those are AWFUL moral choices but many in the public health community - largely those from the epi side of the house - didn't grapple with them because (my opinion) they dismiss the social sciences. We will live with that blindness for some times.

THAT, I wish, was the focus. Because the country SHOULD grapple with the knock on effects of our response. It would be more mature to recognize that there was no good answer. That "science" is about uncertainty and the slow grinding toward "truth" that will always been imperfect (we call them "models" and "Theories" for a reason). That will matter the next time.....not, I think, whether it was a bat or the PRC which would NEVER have admitted a mistake because that is NOT the way they operate (and indeed, would be an existential threat to the regime in their eyes). We can gladly start a new thread about the real challenges of the PRC governing ethos.

Edit
And in one of the more predictable moments ever he evokes the 5th.

---

I agree with these statements but I also remember the scientists speaking in absolutes and certainties. It was much more like "Science says X, if you don't comply you are a flat earther." I don't recall much in the way of "based on what we know now" type qualifiers. Science needs to engage the public in a more 'honest' way if science also wants the space to say things like you mention above.

concordtom said:

---

tequila4kapp said:

---

This topic is about Fauci, and the allegation / belief that he lied and conspired about the origin source, likely for financial reasons.

---

I'm sorry, but I honestly am not able to follow the logic. It seems like so much conspiracy theory connecting the dots.

---

I believe I mentioned in my first post that I want to see receipts. No receipts = speculation and conspiracies.

But considering that some 1.1 million Americans died from the disease - more than 2x the number who died in WW2 and Vietnam combined - it is worth getting answers.

If Biden would have pardoned Colonel Nathan R. Jessep, we wouldn't have one of the best movie scenes in American history!

SBGold said:

---

I see a big nothing burger on this. We are at war and our economy sucks due to DJT, those are the real
Issues. As for these diaries, nothing found wrong by law or policy.

Summed up:

the documents contain no actual bombshells or evidence of illegal activity:

No Policy Violations: A simultaneous release of federal ethics reviews concerning Fauci's awards and prize money did not find any ethics violations or illegal conduct.

Human Reactions to Stress: Supporters argue it is entirely normal for a human being thrown into unprecedented global fame to document that chaos, stress, and media whirlwind in a private diary.

Standard Scientific Evolution: debating the lab leak theory privately while waiting for definitive scientific consensus publicly is how standard crisis management works, rather than a proof of a cover-up.

Political Distraction: Reviving six-year-old COVID-19 grievances is a political stunt by Republicans to avoid discussing current economic and foreign policy issues.

---

Fauci's diary shows what Covid did to his ego, he was far more concerned with how many articles were written about him than he was with presenting the public the truth.

I was told by Democrats that pleading the fifth repeatedly was a sure sign of guilt.

sycasey said:

---

socaltownie said:

---

Help a guy out who has never understood this obsession.

1) the origins of the virus. I can go either way on this. It doesn't surprise me that we could see interspecies transmission of a new virus but I am NOT a virologist. I am more of a student of modern chinese politics so it also wouldn't surprise me if it was an accidental release from a bio lab in china. That background of work also leads me to believe that the LAST thing the Chinese would have done is cooperate with us on investigating origins. So layered on a pandemnic would have been the gravest crisis among nuclear armed states since 1962. Oh great! And for what end? Does the origin story save a single life? I would love to hear the hypothetical.

2) Attacking doing science as conspiracy. From a CAL board it pisses me mildly off that alumni won't let scientists do what they do - be uncertain, grapple with difficult data to understand, go down dead ends. Rethink hypothesis. You know....do science. I look at what I can spend the mental energy on with these contemporaneous notes and say "Good, they are trying in real time in a crisis to do good science.

Finally, this is NOT to agree with the subsequent public health response. I think during it we saw really a weakness in our system - that the epidemiologists were provided a privileged position and that trade offs were not considered. Yes. More people would have died....but the evidence is also clear that closing schools for as long as we did had profound effects on students. Those are AWFUL moral choices but many in the public health community - largely those from the epi side of the house - didn't grapple with them because (my opinion) they dismiss the social sciences. We will live with that blindness for some times.

THAT, I wish, was the focus. Because the country SHOULD grapple with the knock on effects of our response. It would be more mature to recognize that there was no good answer. That "science" is about uncertainty and the slow grinding toward "truth" that will always been imperfect (we call them "models" and "Theories" for a reason). That will matter the next time.....not, I think, whether it was a bat or the PRC which would NEVER have admitted a mistake because that is NOT the way they operate (and indeed, would be an existential threat to the regime in their eyes). We can gladly start a new thread about the real challenges of the PRC governing ethos.

Edit
And in one of the more predictable moments ever he evokes the 5th.

---

I agree with a lot of this. I don't think we actually know what the real origin of the virus was and I suspect we never will be certain. China's government will prevent that information from getting out if it is at all embarrassing to them.

More than a few people in government or otherwise in privileged positions ran with the "zoonotic origin" theory early on as though it was a certainty when it really was not. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of political wrangling was involved in that. That said, I'm not sure I've seen clear evidence that Fauci himself lied about this. Seems like he might have just actually believed in that origin theory all along. (IMO him pleading the fifth is a mistake.)

The issues in public health response, IMO, belie a weakness in our government and inability to make hard choices about tradeoffs. This is not just a Trump or Biden thing, it's both . . . and Congress too. Epidemiologists will likely argue for the maximalist position in stopping virus spread. It's government that has to make the choice about tradeoffs. In other countries we saw how they were able to quickly reopen schools and keep them open; it's a failure of leadership and a failure of trust that this didn't happen in America.

---

"...Ultimately, these things came from an animal reservoir. I have heard these conspiracies theories (about Wuhan) and like all conspiracy theories, they are just conspiracy theories."

That MF and his allies and all his supporters should be in prison.

He is the greatest villain of the 21st century so far. I'd put him above Bin Laden. Al Qaeda, Putin.

Great analysis. And the nasty slur you pointed out is well deserving of a suspension.

Yeah except:

No Policy Violations: A simultaneous release of federal ethics reviews concerning Fauci's awards and prize money did not find any ethics violations or illegal conduct.

We don't imprison people when this is the case. Sorry

SBGold said:

---

Yeah except:

No Policy Violations: A simultaneous release of federal ethics reviews concerning Fauci's awards and prize money did not find any ethics violations or illegal conduct.

We don't imprison people when this is the case. Sorry

---

Lying under oath is a crime.

Deliberating deleting federal communications to hide the truth is a crime.

Using your federal position to cut federal funding to anyone who questions you or disagrees w you is a crime.

His legacy and all of yours who blinded agreed w him is secure: the greatest villain and villain enablers of the 21st century.

oski003 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

socaltownie said:

---

Help a guy out who has never understood this obsession.

1) the origins of the virus. I can go either way on this. It doesn't surprise me that we could see interspecies transmission of a new virus but I am NOT a virologist. I am more of a student of modern chinese politics so it also wouldn't surprise me if it was an accidental release from a bio lab in china. That background of work also leads me to believe that the LAST thing the Chinese would have done is cooperate with us on investigating origins. So layered on a pandemnic would have been the gravest crisis among nuclear armed states since 1962. Oh great! And for what end? Does the origin story save a single life? I would love to hear the hypothetical.

2) Attacking doing science as conspiracy. From a CAL board it pisses me mildly off that alumni won't let scientists do what they do - be uncertain, grapple with difficult data to understand, go down dead ends. Rethink hypothesis. You know....do science. I look at what I can spend the mental energy on with these contemporaneous notes and say "Good, they are trying in real time in a crisis to do good science.

Finally, this is NOT to agree with the subsequent public health response. I think during it we saw really a weakness in our system - that the epidemiologists were provided a privileged position and that trade offs were not considered. Yes. More people would have died....but the evidence is also clear that closing schools for as long as we did had profound effects on students. Those are AWFUL moral choices but many in the public health community - largely those from the epi side of the house - didn't grapple with them because (my opinion) they dismiss the social sciences. We will live with that blindness for some times.

THAT, I wish, was the focus. Because the country SHOULD grapple with the knock on effects of our response. It would be more mature to recognize that there was no good answer. That "science" is about uncertainty and the slow grinding toward "truth" that will always been imperfect (we call them "models" and "Theories" for a reason). That will matter the next time.....not, I think, whether it was a bat or the PRC which would NEVER have admitted a mistake because that is NOT the way they operate (and indeed, would be an existential threat to the regime in their eyes). We can gladly start a new thread about the real challenges of the PRC governing ethos.

Edit
And in one of the more predictable moments ever he evokes the 5th.

---

I agree with a lot of this. I don't think we actually know what the real origin of the virus was and I suspect we never will be certain. China's government will prevent that information from getting out if it is at all embarrassing to them.

More than a few people in government or otherwise in privileged positions ran with the "zoonotic origin" theory early on as though it was a certainty when it really was not. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of political wrangling was involved in that. That said, I'm not sure I've seen clear evidence that Fauci himself lied about this. Seems like he might have just actually believed in that origin theory all along. (IMO him pleading the fifth is a mistake.)

The issues in public health response, IMO, belie a weakness in our government and inability to make hard choices about tradeoffs. This is not just a Trump or Biden thing, it's both . . . and Congress too. Epidemiologists will likely argue for the maximalist position in stopping virus spread. It's government that has to make the choice about tradeoffs. In other countries we saw how they were able to quickly reopen schools and keep them open; it's a failure of leadership and a failure of trust that this didn't happen in America.

---

"...Ultimately, these things came from an animal reservoir. I have heard these conspiracies theories (about Wuhan) and like all conspiracy theories, they are just conspiracy theories."

---

Pay attention to the actual question he was asked there: it was about China having a bioweapons lab and the virus coming out of that (presumably intentionally). That was indeed a conspiracy theory that was floating around at one time.

sycasey said:

---

oski003 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

socaltownie said:

---

Help a guy out who has never understood this obsession.

1) the origins of the virus. I can go either way on this. It doesn't surprise me that we could see interspecies transmission of a new virus but I am NOT a virologist. I am more of a student of modern chinese politics so it also wouldn't surprise me if it was an accidental release from a bio lab in china. That background of work also leads me to believe that the LAST thing the Chinese would have done is cooperate with us on investigating origins. So layered on a pandemnic would have been the gravest crisis among nuclear armed states since 1962. Oh great! And for what end? Does the origin story save a single life? I would love to hear the hypothetical.

2) Attacking doing science as conspiracy. From a CAL board it pisses me mildly off that alumni won't let scientists do what they do - be uncertain, grapple with difficult data to understand, go down dead ends. Rethink hypothesis. You know....do science. I look at what I can spend the mental energy on with these contemporaneous notes and say "Good, they are trying in real time in a crisis to do good science.

Finally, this is NOT to agree with the subsequent public health response. I think during it we saw really a weakness in our system - that the epidemiologists were provided a privileged position and that trade offs were not considered. Yes. More people would have died....but the evidence is also clear that closing schools for as long as we did had profound effects on students. Those are AWFUL moral choices but many in the public health community - largely those from the epi side of the house - didn't grapple with them because (my opinion) they dismiss the social sciences. We will live with that blindness for some times.

THAT, I wish, was the focus. Because the country SHOULD grapple with the knock on effects of our response. It would be more mature to recognize that there was no good answer. That "science" is about uncertainty and the slow grinding toward "truth" that will always been imperfect (we call them "models" and "Theories" for a reason). That will matter the next time.....not, I think, whether it was a bat or the PRC which would NEVER have admitted a mistake because that is NOT the way they operate (and indeed, would be an existential threat to the regime in their eyes). We can gladly start a new thread about the real challenges of the PRC governing ethos.

Edit
And in one of the more predictable moments ever he evokes the 5th.

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I agree with a lot of this. I don't think we actually know what the real origin of the virus was and I suspect we never will be certain. China's government will prevent that information from getting out if it is at all embarrassing to them.

More than a few people in government or otherwise in privileged positions ran with the "zoonotic origin" theory early on as though it was a certainty when it really was not. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of political wrangling was involved in that. That said, I'm not sure I've seen clear evidence that Fauci himself lied about this. Seems like he might have just actually believed in that origin theory all along. (IMO him pleading the fifth is a mistake.)

The issues in public health response, IMO, belie a weakness in our government and inability to make hard choices about tradeoffs. This is not just a Trump or Biden thing, it's both . . . and Congress too. Epidemiologists will likely argue for the maximalist position in stopping virus spread. It's government that has to make the choice about tradeoffs. In other countries we saw how they were able to quickly reopen schools and keep them open; it's a failure of leadership and a failure of trust that this didn't happen in America.

---

"...Ultimately, these things came from an animal reservoir. I have heard these conspiracies theories (about Wuhan) and like all conspiracy theories, they are just conspiracy theories."

---

Pay attention to the actual question he was asked there: it was about China having a bioweapons lab and the virus coming out of that (presumably intentionally). That was indeed a conspiracy theory that was floating around at one time.

---

The question:

Do you have any sense of where the virus probably came from?

Fauci's lie:

"Ultimately, these things come from an animal reservoir."

Yes, Wuhan is characterized as a bioweapons lab, which it may or may not have been. However, the question is whether or not the lab leak therapy is credible and where Fauci thinks the virus came from. Fauci answers that it came from a reservoir and conspiracies are only conspiracies.

Why was Fauci's pardon backdated to 2014?

oski003 said:

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sycasey said:

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oski003 said:

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sycasey said:

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socaltownie said:

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Help a guy out who has never understood this obsession.

1) the origins of the virus. I can go either way on this. It doesn't surprise me that we could see interspecies transmission of a new virus but I am NOT a virologist. I am more of a student of modern chinese politics so it also wouldn't surprise me if it was an accidental release from a bio lab in china. That background of work also leads me to believe that the LAST thing the Chinese would have done is cooperate with us on investigating origins. So layered on a pandemnic would have been the gravest crisis among nuclear armed states since 1962. Oh great! And for what end? Does the origin story save a single life? I would love to hear the hypothetical.

2) Attacking doing science as conspiracy. From a CAL board it pisses me mildly off that alumni won't let scientists do what they do - be uncertain, grapple with difficult data to understand, go down dead ends. Rethink hypothesis. You know....do science. I look at what I can spend the mental energy on with these contemporaneous notes and say "Good, they are trying in real time in a crisis to do good science.

Finally, this is NOT to agree with the subsequent public health response. I think during it we saw really a weakness in our system - that the epidemiologists were provided a privileged position and that trade offs were not considered. Yes. More people would have died....but the evidence is also clear that closing schools for as long as we did had profound effects on students. Those are AWFUL moral choices but many in the public health community - largely those from the epi side of the house - didn't grapple with them because (my opinion) they dismiss the social sciences. We will live with that blindness for some times.

THAT, I wish, was the focus. Because the country SHOULD grapple with the knock on effects of our response. It would be more mature to recognize that there was no good answer. That "science" is about uncertainty and the slow grinding toward "truth" that will always been imperfect (we call them "models" and "Theories" for a reason). That will matter the next time.....not, I think, whether it was a bat or the PRC which would NEVER have admitted a mistake because that is NOT the way they operate (and indeed, would be an existential threat to the regime in their eyes). We can gladly start a new thread about the real challenges of the PRC governing ethos.

Edit
And in one of the more predictable moments ever he evokes the 5th.

---

I agree with a lot of this. I don't think we actually know what the real origin of the virus was and I suspect we never will be certain. China's government will prevent that information from getting out if it is at all embarrassing to them.

More than a few people in government or otherwise in privileged positions ran with the "zoonotic origin" theory early on as though it was a certainty when it really was not. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of political wrangling was involved in that. That said, I'm not sure I've seen clear evidence that Fauci himself lied about this. Seems like he might have just actually believed in that origin theory all along. (IMO him pleading the fifth is a mistake.)

The issues in public health response, IMO, belie a weakness in our government and inability to make hard choices about tradeoffs. This is not just a Trump or Biden thing, it's both . . . and Congress too. Epidemiologists will likely argue for the maximalist position in stopping virus spread. It's government that has to make the choice about tradeoffs. In other countries we saw how they were able to quickly reopen schools and keep them open; it's a failure of leadership and a failure of trust that this didn't happen in America.

---

"...Ultimately, these things came from an animal reservoir. I have heard these conspiracies theories (about Wuhan) and like all conspiracy theories, they are just conspiracy theories."

---

Pay attention to the actual question he was asked there: it was about China having a bioweapons lab and the virus coming out of that (presumably intentionally). That was indeed a conspiracy theory that was floating around at one time.

---

The question:

Do you have any sense of where the virus probably came from?

Fauci's lie:

"Ultimately, these things come from an animal reservoir."

Yes, Wuhan is characterized as a bioweapons lab, which it may or may not have been. However, the question is whether or not the lab leak therapy is credible and where Fauci thinks the virus came from. Fauci answers that it came from a reservoir and conspiracies are only conspiracies.

---

That was a huge lie, under oath I presume?