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Trump vs Harvard

1,574 Views | 19 Replies | Last: 1 mo ago by concordtom
DiabloWags
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More Winning!









Judge dismisses Trump lawsuit that claimed Harvard failed to protect Jewish students | US news | The Guardian
wifeisafurd
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As well the Judge should.

Harvard dismantled its DEI, gutted its Religion, Conflict and Peace Initiative and fired its faculty that were deemed anti-jeiwsh, settled lawsuits, updated campus use rules, adopted an International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance, created a dedicated reporting office and specialized position to handle antisemitism complaints with urgency. implemented mandatory outside training for faculty and staff evaluating bias and hate incidents, recognized Zionism explicitly as a protected category under specific university anti-harassment frameworks


And what was the government seeking? To recover billions of dollars in federal research grants awarded to Harvard since October 2023 on matters that had nothing to do with anything where Jewish students or faculty that were discriminated against. Instead this is smokescreen for a targeted, ideologically-motivated assault.
DiabloWags
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wifeisafurd said:


And what was the government seeking? To recover billions of dollars in federal research grants awarded to Harvard since October 2023 on matters that had nothing to do with anything where Jewish students or factually were discriminated against. Instead this is smokescreen for a targeted, ideologically-motivated assault.


Agreed 100%

This was just a money "grab" by the Trump Administration.
A disgusting example of the arbitrary and capricious weaponization of taxpayer money that is undermining the health of Americans.

Harvard argues Trump admin illegally cut $2.6 billion in research funding | AP News

wifeisafurd
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Look Harvard did some stupid things in the Claudine Gay Administration that pissed off donors and maybe not intentionally, allowed a fair amount of anti-semitism and other biases. They paid a huge price from the donors and in their prestige, and they fixed their problems and in some ways maybe even overcorrected. They have had to make budget cuts and they paid a lot of money in lawsuits. At some point, Harvard has paid the price and shown other schools a good example what not do.

What good does it do to now cut research, a good portion of which btw is for the military or other important government projects? This is like cutting off your nose to spite your face. Just dumb. End of sermon.
concordtom
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Trump is absolute garbage!

dajo9
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wifeisafurd said:

Look Harvard did some stupid things in the Claudine Gay Administration that pissed off donors and maybe not intentionally, allowed a fair amount of anti-semitism and other biases. They paid a huge price from the donors and in their prestige, and they fixed their problems and in some ways maybe even overcorrected. They have had to make budget cuts and they paid a lot of money in lawsuits. At some point, Harvard has paid the price and shown other schools a good example what not do.

What good does it do to now cut research, a good portion of which btw is for the military or other important government projects? This is like cutting off your nose to spite your face. Just dumb. End of sermon.


The impact on Harvard's prestige is nil
Censorship has always been a tool of the fascist
BearlySane88
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dajo9 said:

wifeisafurd said:

Look Harvard did some stupid things in the Claudine Gay Administration that pissed off donors and maybe not intentionally, allowed a fair amount of anti-semitism and other biases. They paid a huge price from the donors and in their prestige, and they fixed their problems and in some ways maybe even overcorrected. They have had to make budget cuts and they paid a lot of money in lawsuits. At some point, Harvard has paid the price and shown other schools a good example what not do.

What good does it do to now cut research, a good portion of which btw is for the military or other important government projects? This is like cutting off your nose to spite your face. Just dumb. End of sermon.


The impact on Harvard's prestige is nil


True. Most people don't even know this is/was going on
Anarchistbear
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Harvard is a pro- Semitic enterprise.
wifeisafurd
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dajo9 said:

wifeisafurd said:

Look Harvard did some stupid things in the Claudine Gay Administration that pissed off donors and maybe not intentionally, allowed a fair amount of anti-semitism and other biases. They paid a huge price from the donors and in their prestige, and they fixed their problems and in some ways maybe even overcorrected. They have had to make budget cuts and they paid a lot of money in lawsuits. At some point, Harvard has paid the price and shown other schools a good example what not do.

What good does it do to now cut research, a good portion of which btw is for the military or other important government projects? This is like cutting off your nose to spite your face. Just dumb. End of sermon.


The impact on Harvard's prestige is nil

Why don't you ever provide some evidence behind your blanket know it all statements? Kinda Trump like.

In fact, even the Harvard President has acknowledged that they lost prestige due to all the controversies, but "that is not permanent." He has stated that "Harvard's deep-rooted academic and research infrastructure remains fundamentally resilient." The Harvard Crimson is constantly complaining about lost is prestige as its President continues on his apology tour. Link: https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2026/jan/5/alan-garber-harvard-president-universities-went-wrong-allowing/?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=email_link&utm_source=emai


Drops in USNW&R and Princeton Review, rankings, reductions in applications, reduction in international academic rankings where they have fallen behind, other schools, including Chinese schools, where schools like Oxford, Cal and Stanford have not. I'm not suggesting that these declines means a Harvard degree doesn't carry immense weight - it does. It just means instead of being at the top, Harvard fell behind the competition in terms of what people at Harvard think and outside perception by people who follow these things. What are your credentials to make such a judgment?

dajo9
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wifeisafurd said:

dajo9 said:

wifeisafurd said:

Look Harvard did some stupid things in the Claudine Gay Administration that pissed off donors and maybe not intentionally, allowed a fair amount of anti-semitism and other biases. They paid a huge price from the donors and in their prestige, and they fixed their problems and in some ways maybe even overcorrected. They have had to make budget cuts and they paid a lot of money in lawsuits. At some point, Harvard has paid the price and shown other schools a good example what not do.

What good does it do to now cut research, a good portion of which btw is for the military or other important government projects? This is like cutting off your nose to spite your face. Just dumb. End of sermon.


The impact on Harvard's prestige is nil

Why don't you ever provide some evidence behind your blanket know it all statements? Kinda Trump like.

In fact, even the Harvard President has acknowledged that they lost prestige due to all the controversies, but "that is not permanent." He has stated that "Harvard's deep-rooted academic and research infrastructure remains fundamentally resilient." The Harvard Crimson is constantly complaining about lost is prestige as its President continues on his apology tour. Link: https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2026/jan/5/alan-garber-harvard-president-universities-went-wrong-allowing/?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=email_link&utm_source=emai


Drops in USNW&R and Princeton Review, rankings, reductions in applications, reduction in international academic rankings where they have fallen behind, other schools, including Chinese schools, where schools like Oxford, Cal and Stanford have not. I'm not suggesting that these declines means a Harvard degree doesn't carry immense weight - it does. It just means instead of being at the top, Harvard fell behind the competition in terms of what people at Harvard think and outside perception by people who follow these things. What are your credentials to make such a judgment?




I'm around enough Ivy League people to know the name "Harvard" still carries a weight unequaled by the other Ivies. It's still a conversation stopper unmatched by the others. Maybe the internal academic navel gazers have something to say but that is mostly irrelevant in the bigger picture.
Censorship has always been a tool of the fascist
wifeisafurd
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dajo9 said:

wifeisafurd said:

dajo9 said:

wifeisafurd said:

Look Harvard did some stupid things in the Claudine Gay Administration that pissed off donors and maybe not intentionally, allowed a fair amount of anti-semitism and other biases. They paid a huge price from the donors and in their prestige, and they fixed their problems and in some ways maybe even overcorrected. They have had to make budget cuts and they paid a lot of money in lawsuits. At some point, Harvard has paid the price and shown other schools a good example what not do.

What good does it do to now cut research, a good portion of which btw is for the military or other important government projects? This is like cutting off your nose to spite your face. Just dumb. End of sermon.


The impact on Harvard's prestige is nil

Why don't you ever provide some evidence behind your blanket know it all statements? Kinda Trump like.

In fact, even the Harvard President has acknowledged that they lost prestige due to all the controversies, but "that is not permanent." He has stated that "Harvard's deep-rooted academic and research infrastructure remains fundamentally resilient." The Harvard Crimson is constantly complaining about lost is prestige as its President continues on his apology tour. Link: https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2026/jan/5/alan-garber-harvard-president-universities-went-wrong-allowing/?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=email_link&utm_source=emai


Drops in USNW&R and Princeton Review, rankings, reductions in applications, reduction in international academic rankings where they have fallen behind, other schools, including Chinese schools, where schools like Oxford, Cal and Stanford have not. I'm not suggesting that these declines means a Harvard degree doesn't carry immense weight - it does. It just means instead of being at the top, Harvard fell behind the competition in terms of what people at Harvard think and outside perception by people who follow these things. What are your credentials to make such a judgment?




I'm around enough Ivy League people to know the name "Harvard" still carries a weight unequaled by the other Ivies. It's still a conversation stopper unmatched by the others. Maybe the internal academic navel gazers have something to say but that is mostly irrelevant in the bigger picture.

I'm around enough Harvard grads to know they think they took a hit. Hell, half my wedding party went to Harvard Law. I don't find talking to your Ivy bodies constitutes any reliable evidence as to what prestige a school has. if that is the case welcome to SoCal where all the SC wonks think SC is a prestige school, certaiblhy better than Cal. Again, not saying Harvard isn't a top school - it is. But when their own President says they took a hit, why the hell do I care what your dudes say?
dajo9
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Nothing is as devastating to their prestige as this cheer i recently learned

Knit one
Purl two
Hello Hah-vahd, yoohoo

The President of Harvard is more worried about appeasing a handful of big donors than he is prestige.
Censorship has always been a tool of the fascist
bearister
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I wonder how many quality students Cal loses because it won't let you know if you can be a business major until you are a junior. They lost my daughter over it.

*AI seems to confirm it is still so:
Continuing undergraduate students at UC Berkeley generally apply to the business major during their sophomore or junior year, meaning formal acceptance into the Haas School of Business for those internal applicants isn't finalized until right before junior standing.
“Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside”
—Jim Morrison

“I love Cal deeply, by the way, what are the directions to The Portal from Sproul Plaza?”
BearlySane88
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You can now enter Haas as freshmen through its Spieker Undergraduate Business Program.

The key difference from the old system is that you apply to Haas when you apply to UC Berkeley as a high-school senior. If admitted, you enter Berkeley as a Haas/Spieker student and follow a four-year business program, rather than spending your first two years at Berkeley and applying to Haas later.
DiabloWags
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bearister said:

I wonder how many quality students Cal loses because it won't let you know if you can be a business major until you are a junior. They lost my daughter over it.



When I applied to Haas after 2-years of pre-reqs, we were on the quarter system and only two quarters were open for admission.... Fall and Winter.

I believe Haas received 800 applications and only 85 got in.

I got in.
Everyone else became a PEIS major.
LudwigsFountain
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DiabloWags said:

bearister said:

I wonder how many quality students Cal loses because it won't let you know if you can be a business major until you are a junior. They lost my daughter over it.



When I applied to Haas after 2-years of pre-reqs, we were on the quarter system and only two quarters were open for admission.... Fall and Winter.

I believe Haas received 800 applications and only 85 got in.

I got in.
Everyone else became a PEIS major.


My goodness, how things have changed. In the 60s, the business school was the refuge for those about to flunk out of L&S. Given my propensity to forget things I used AI to check my recollection and got this:

In the 1960s, getting into the business program at the University of California, Berkeley (then structured largely through the undergraduate College of Commerce/Business Administration) was far less difficult than it is today, though meeting overall baseline eligibility for the UC system was still required.

DiabloWags
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Trust me, the Haas School back then was supposed to be in the Top 3 in the Nation, but its curriculum was a joke.

They literally offered ONE COURSE in Accounting, Finance, Organizational Behavior, Real Estate, Investments, and Micro Econ.

Given today's extensive curriculum, Haas is in another galaxy compared to the early 80's.

wifeisafurd
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dajo9 said:


The President of Harvard is more worried about appeasing a handful of big donors than he is prestige.

I buy that. And elitist faculty and active alums (who usually also are donors) that make a lot of noise about top ratings, so them too. And prestige does matter in academic circles, so Gay's tenure really pissed off a lot of the faculty; hence, the current President is basically dismantling everything she did.


There will always be 8 to 10 schools (all privates) that will be on American high school students top lists and then a different list for grad students which tend to include a lot more international students (Cal makes that list). You can look at the Princeton Review, which is like the bible for high school kids around here. As someone who has been involved in the recruiting process at some large firms, there really is very little to distinguish these schools from a hiring perspective, other than school relationships of those involved in the hiring process. And it is really good to be a Harvard alum, they know how to connect.
wifeisafurd
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DiabloWags said:

bearister said:

I wonder how many quality students Cal loses because it won't let you know if you can be a business major until you are a junior. They lost my daughter over it.



When I applied to Haas after 2-years of pre-reqs, we were on the quarter system and only two quarters were open for admission.... Fall and Winter.

I believe Haas received 800 applications and only 85 got in.

I got in.
Everyone else became a PEIS major.


Me too. Better have had a 3.5 plus. Also Econ required a 3.5 plus. Cal since expanded the number of faculty in both disciplines. .
concordtom
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We here are pondering whether Harvard or Cal or SC have gone up or down in the relative rankings.

Maybe they all are going down relative to ….. so I asked a question:

Quote:

I've read China is graduating more engineers than USA has in total. If that's true then they must have some excellent universities that the west is clueless about. What do they have that compares to our great schools, if any?

China's top institutions are well known in global academia, though they carry less household-name recognition in the West than MIT, Stanford, or Caltech.

China's elite higher education system is anchored by the C9 League - the Chinese equivalent of the Ivy League. In global STEM rankings, these schools regularly compete with, and in several sub-disciplines surpass, top American universities.

The Elite Tier (China's "Ivy League")

TABLE
Chinese University
US Equivalent Analogy
Core STEM Strengths

| Tsinghua University
| MIT / Stanford
| #1 in Engineering & Computer Science globally in multiple subject rankings. Powerhouse in AI, chip design, materials science, and civil engineering.

| Peking University (PKU)
| Harvard / UC Berkeley
| Stronger in fundamental sciences (physics, math, chemistry) and life sciences alongside humanities.

| Zhejiang University (ZJU)
| Georgia Tech / Purdue
| Massive engine for applied engineering, robotics, control theory, and commercial tech spin-offs.

| Shanghai Jiao Tong (SJTU)
| University of Michigan
| World-class naval architecture, mechanical engineering, biomedical engineering, and data science.

| Harbin Institute of Tech (HIT)
| Caltech / DARPA-linked R1
| Heavy industrial engineering, aerospace, defense technology, and advanced manufacturing.

| USTC (Univ. of Science & Tech)
| Princeton / Caltech
| Laser-focused on hard sciences: quantum computing, theoretical physics, and advanced chemistry.

Structural Differences: Mass Production vs. Elite Concentration

While the sheer volume of Chinese STEM graduates comes from hundreds of provincial universities, China's elite research output is driven by targeted state programs:

* Heavy Industry Integration: Schools like Shanghai Jiao Tong and Zhejiang University maintain direct research-to-production pipelines with mega-corporations (e.g., CATL, Huawei, BYD), allowing rapid prototyping of industrial tech.

* Project 985 & Double First Class Initiatives: The Chinese government funnelled billions of dollars into a select group of ~40 universities specifically to build world-leading STEM faculties.

* Specialized Technical Institutes: Unlike Western universities that emphasize liberal arts alongside STEM, Chinese technical universities function almost like dedicated, massive research labs focused strictly on targeted engineering verticals.


I'm just suggesting that, as with all things, we stop infighting and lift our head above the horizon.
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