Just a friend in town. Our kids are classmates though they aren't particularly close. A guy in our social circle and we do fantasy football and see each other at the occasional party. I try not to talk too much politics in town because I don't want it to define our family in our small community. But I know this guy to be a conservative Trump supporter.

He texts me out of the blue this morning with a video I need to check out. There is a link. He follows with a few texts about how he can answer any questions I have and we should get together and talk about it. How the NSA has everything.

At this point, I'm pretty sure his phone has been hacked and there is no way I'm touching that link. I try to call him but it goes to voicemail. So I call his wife to tell her that I think his phone has been hacked. He starts texting me asking what the hell is wrong with me that I called his wife and now she is on his back and thinks he's crazy.

Now I feel bad and am apologetic. So we text and the video is from some QAnon guy and he wants me to watch the video and get my perspective on it as a liberal. He says the politicians are out to divide us but we are all good people and have to find real truth. Says he's been thinking a lot about this stuff lately.

So, we're meeting for a beer tonight to talk. I don't really want to talk too much politics with him. I mostly want to talk to him about stepping away for awhile - away from politics and especially social media politics. I've had to do the same when I've felt too wrapped up in it. I'm legitimately concerned about his well-being and hope he's pretty rational when we meet up tonight. The stress from our political situation is real - and not just on the left. The gaslighting is having its predicted consequences.

Boy that's a tough one. I'd use and remember this part below...politicians are trying to divide people, which is a good reason to avoid discussing politics and something you can agree with. Then just concentrate on commonalities, kids, school..maybe slide in something about getting away from the internet. Best of luck.

Quote:

---

He says the politicians are out to divide us but we are all good people and have to find real truth. Says he's been thinking a lot about this stuff lately.

---

Can you break it down a bit? Why do think his phone has been hacked? Good decision
not to click on the link. You're being a good friend in meeting him.

This is believable and difficult. I agree with others that the best way to go is to
start with commonalities. From what you've said, it doesn't sound like you're in
a position to get back to the real source and/or fix the problem if it's real

This could be nothing or quite serious. But you already know that.

I'm kind of curious as to what the video is about.

Tell him to do what Pat Buchanan and Steve Bannon do: get his facts from the Washington Post, the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal and the Guardian. Viewing the facts does not change Buchanan's or Bannon's belief in their Right Wing ideology and perhaps it won't change your friend's, but at least it will free him from basing his opinions on the fairy tales disseminated by Fox News and Facebook.

bearister said:

---

Tell him to do what Pat Buchanan and Steve Bannon do: get his facts from the Washington Post, the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal and the Guardian. Viewing the facts does not change Buchanan's or Bannon's belief in their Right Wing ideology and perhaps it won't change your friend's, but at least it will free him from basing his opinions on the fairy tales disseminated by Fox News and Facebook.

---

https://www.manhattancontrarian.com/blog/2019-2-24-the-greatest-scientific-fraud-of-all-time-part-xxi

bearister said:

---

Tell him to do what Pat Buchanan and Steve Bannon do: get his facts from the Washington Post, the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal and the Guardian. Viewing the facts does not change Buchanan's or Bannon's belief in their Right Wing ideology and perhaps it won't change your friend's, but at least it will free him from basing his opinions on the fairy tales disseminated by Fox News and Facebook.

---

https://www.hoover.org/research/new-nihilism

dajo,
I don't think this is a difficult one.
Speak truth to power, speak truth to neighbors, and do not allow shyness or 'trying to get along' stop you from speaking truth.

There were lots of good Germans who remained quiet while that country went down the tubes. If more people spoke up and said, "this is wrong", perhaps millions of lives would have been saved.

I think none of us need to go out of our way and inflame our neighbors or our family members, but I do believe that if someone wants our honest opinion, we should at least be willing to say it to him.

People who have gone to the dark side of trump-world need a course correction, just like our country does. If the sane among us do not help steer the ship, you can expect it to continue to falter.

kelly09 said:

---

bearister said:

---

Tell him to do what Pat Buchanan and Steve Bannon do: get his facts from the Washington Post, the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal and the Guardian. Viewing the facts does not change Buchanan's or Bannon's belief in their Right Wing ideology and perhaps it won't change your friend's, but at least it will free him from basing his opinions on the fairy tales disseminated by Fox News and Facebook.

---

https://www.manhattancontrarian.com/blog/2019-2-24-the-greatest-scientific-fraud-of-all-time-part-xxi

---

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/mind-in-the-machine/201609/the-psychology-behind-donald-trumps-unwavering-support

"Studies have shown that people who lack expertise in some area of knowledge often have a cognitive bias that prevents them from realizing that they lack expertise."

Yogi Bear said:

---

kelly09 said:

---

bearister said:

---

Tell him to do what Pat Buchanan and Steve Bannon do: get his facts from the Washington Post, the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal and the Guardian. Viewing the facts does not change Buchanan's or Bannon's belief in their Right Wing ideology and perhaps it won't change your friend's, but at least it will free him from basing his opinions on the fairy tales disseminated by Fox News and Facebook.

---

https://www.manhattancontrarian.com/blog/2019-2-24-the-greatest-scientific-fraud-of-all-time-part-xxi

---

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/mind-in-the-machine/201609/the-psychology-behind-donald-trumps-unwavering-support

"Studies have shown that people who lack expertise in some area of knowledge often have a cognitive bias that prevents them from realizing that they lack expertise."

---

Couldn't agree more. I have been a subscriber to the Claremont Review for about as long as I've been a paying member of this site. If you believe intellectualism is only a product of the left, you are deluded. Well. actually. most of the posters on this site are DELUDED1

dajo9 said:

---

Just a friend in town. Our kids are classmates though they aren't particularly close. A guy in our social circle and we do fantasy football and see each other at the occasional party. I try not to talk too much politics in town because I don't want it to define our family in our small community. But I know this guy to be a conservative Trump supporter.

He texts me out of the blue this morning with a video I need to check out. There is a link. He follows with a few texts about how he can answer any questions I have and we should get together and talk about it. How the NSA has everything.

At this point, I'm pretty sure his phone has been hacked and there is no way I'm touching that link. I try to call him but it goes to voicemail. So I call his wife to tell her that I think his phone has been hacked. He starts texting me asking what the hell is wrong with me that I called his wife and now she is on his back and thinks he's crazy.

Now I feel bad and am apologetic. So we text and the video is from some QAnon guy and he wants me to watch the video and get my perspective on it as a liberal. He says the politicians are out to divide us but we are all good people and have to find real truth. Says he's been thinking a lot about this stuff lately.

So, we're meeting for a beer tonight to talk. I don't really want to talk too much politics with him. I mostly want to talk to him about stepping away for awhile - away from politics and especially social media politics. I've had to do the same when I've felt too wrapped up in it. I'm legitimately concerned about his well-being and hope he's pretty rational when we meet up tonight. The stress from our political situation is real - and not just on the left. The gaslighting is having its predicted consequences.

---

This is a legitimate concern as I know you to be passionate about your politics. I live in two worlds, in Los Angeles I'm to the right of our friends generally, and when we go down to the OC, I'm to the left generally. And the politics have become much more divisive, but politics are not going to jeopardize my relationships, if I can help it. I don't really feel like I can change the overall view of my friends - by this time in their lives the have their values and views. You can talk about a specific issue and maybe there is common ground or a view to views things differently, but I really see no reason to engage in a political dialogue questioning their views. Their politics are personal, like their religion. My sense is trying to "finding the real truth" is not a quest that will be found over a beer.


That said, there is a distinction between political views and becoming obsessed with politics to the point of ruining your life. This is not a close friend and if your view is you have to take on an intervention (a subtext I'm picking-up that may not be accurate), this should come from those closer to him perhaps. I would go with your instincts and just say there was a misunderstanding.

concordtom said:

---

dajo,
I don't think this is a difficult one.
Speak truth to power, speak truth to neighbors, and do not allow shyness or 'trying to get along' stop you from speaking truth.

There were lots of good Germans who remained quiet while that country went down the tubes. If more people spoke up and said, "this is wrong", perhaps millions of lives would have been saved.

I think none of us need to go out of our way and inflame our neighbors or our family members, but I do believe that if someone wants our honest opinion, we should at least be willing to say it to him.

People who have gone to the dark side of trump-world need a course correction, just like our country does. If the sane among us do not help steer the ship, you can expect it to continue to falter.

---

I definitely have and will stick to my guns. He already texted me asking if I thought the media was being fair to Trump and I told him the media was incredibly unfair to Hillary Clinton in 2016. So I'll be straightforward in my views but I don't want to antagonize the situation (like I do here sometimes, haha).

Our beer is delayed until Wednesday because he got held up at work.

sycasey said:

---

I'm kind of curious as to what the video is about.

---

It is a QAnon video. I know QAnon to be far right wing conspiracy stuff (i.e. Mueller is secretly investigating all the corrupt democratic traitors and just when the media thinks Trump is about to be arrested the feds are going to sweep the nation and arrest all the democrats like Hillary and Pelosi and Schumer for their crimes against America).

I watched the video last night and it is "out there" stuff with codes and hidden symbols. You'd have to spend hours on it to even understand it and who is going to do that but somebody who desperately wants to believe that Trump is saving the country from a cabal of traitorous, pedophile Democrats. That's why my friend kept telling me that he could answer my questions and we should discuss it. I'm not going to link to it but there is plenty of information on the internet about QAnon if you are interested. QAnon folks were showing up at Trump rallies last summer holding signs and whatnot. It's a scary group - If Trump, today, had the army go into Washington and arrest all the Democrats in Congress and the Supreme Court, these are the people who would celebrate.

After I watched the video I texted my friend that he should look up "gaslighting" and get away from the internet. We'll have our beer on Wednesday.

dajo9 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

I'm kind of curious as to what the video is about.

---

It is a QAnon video. I know QAnon to be far right wing conspiracy stuff (i.e. Mueller is secretly investigating all the corrupt democratic traitors and just when the media thinks Trump is about to be arrested the feds are going to sweep the nation and arrest all the democrats like Hillary and Pelosi and Schumer for their crimes against America).

I watched the video last night and it is "out there" stuff with codes and hidden symbols. You'd have to spend hours on it to even understand it and who is going to do that but somebody who desperately wants to believe that Trump is saving the country from a cabal of traitorous, pedophile Democrats. That's why my friend kept telling me that he could answer my questions and we should discuss it. I'm not going to link to it but there is plenty of information on the internet about QAnon if you are interested. QAnon folks were showing up at Trump rallies last summer holding signs and whatnot. It's a scary group - If Trump, today, had the army go into Washington and arrest all the Democrats in Congress and the Supreme Court, these are the people who would celebrate.

After I watched the video I texted my friend that he should look up "gaslighting" and get away from the internet. We'll have our beer on Wednesday.

---

Yipes. Yeah, tread lightly with this guy.

dajo9 said:

---

concordtom said:

---

dajo,
I don't think this is a difficult one.
Speak truth to power, speak truth to neighbors, and do not allow shyness or 'trying to get along' stop you from speaking truth.

There were lots of good Germans who remained quiet while that country went down the tubes. If more people spoke up and said, "this is wrong", perhaps millions of lives would have been saved.

I think none of us need to go out of our way and inflame our neighbors or our family members, but I do believe that if someone wants our honest opinion, we should at least be willing to say it to him.

People who have gone to the dark side of trump-world need a course correction, just like our country does. If the sane among us do not help steer the ship, you can expect it to continue to falter.

---

I definitely have and will stick to my guns. He already texted me asking if I thought the media was being fair to Trump and I told him the media was incredibly unfair to Hillary Clinton in 2016. So I'll be straightforward in my views but I don't want to antagonize the situation (like I do here sometimes, haha).

Our beer is delayed until Wednesday because he got held up at work.

---

If he's coming in trying to convince you, then you can just listen politely, say you disagree, and change the subject where appropriate.

But it could be that he's wanting to check in with you and honestly get your take, because he respects your opinion. And that's where I'm saying people need to be calm and clear as to why Trump is unfit to lead this country. If the resistance is quiet and passive, then he's going to leave thinking it's no big deal, and maybe continue to believe the BS the right/trump faction feeds him. No.

I wouldn't get into the Hillary thing. That's a losing debate because there is so much false accusations and wild conspiracy BS (they succeeded in tainting her reputation, and she aided it with the email server), and plus, this current situation has NOTHING TO DO with Hillary. This is all about Trump. Sure, the GOP wants to flip the focal point because they know that the trump talking points are not good. So, if he says, "what about Hillary?" Say, "Dude, that's so in the past and not at play anymore. Whatever happened or didn't happen.... we can debate that for the next hour but it's in the past and doesn't matter. What does matter is the next election, and Hillary is not running."

I don't know what your relationship is with this person, but I do not allow for an ounce of "well, maybe it's okay" when I talk politics with people. I'm very clear that he's unacceptable. This is not a case of just having differing opinions. This is a once ina lifetime monster who has risen up to our country. It's very dire, or at least has the potential to become very dire. I repeat, Hitler.

And I've also thought and read about Napoleon, too. After he was sent to Elba, he escaped and was met by French soldiers sent to stop him. Vastly outnumbered, he walked out with arms spread open: "Here I am, come shoot your emperor!" His cult of personality won them over and he thus gathered his forces big time. They then marched to continue warring. He was eventually defeated at Waterloo.

Trump could be the same. He could lose the 2020 election, but will continue spouting off and causing havoc in our country. He needs to be rebuked soundly by everyone. He messed around with the lie of birtherism, and got a lot of mileage out of that. Imagine what lies he will foment after he's gone from office. He will never stop because he is a sick man. And he will bring us all down. His type does not ride off into the sunset. His type goes out in a blaze of glory. It builds the story in his mind. Riding off into the sunset is too boring. What's he gonna do? Sip a pia colada surrounded by hookers? Not good enough for him. He can never be satisfied with any accomplishment or conclusionary event because his narcissistic demand is endless. And he surely becomes more dangerous the older he gets because realizing his lifespan is shrinking he's willing to take greater and greater risks.

Trump has long been a joke. He has been an irresponsible mouth and citizen for decades. He has filed for bankruptcy many times, he bankrupted Atlantic City. He was shut out of NY funding circles for good reasons. He lies about facts and cheats, breaks laws. He incites others to argue rather than come together. His negatives are endless. Yet, he seems to be a master of fooling the masses. It's amazing to watch, and I have not understood it, other than the "cult of personality" aspect. We must resist getting caught up in it. Be rational. Choose another candidate. It's pretty simple.

dajo9 said:

---

I watched the video last night and it is "out there" stuff with codes and hidden symbols. You'd have to spend hours on it to even understand it

---

If people want to have the fun and satisfaction of figuring out hidden puzzles, I suggest they get involved in studying their genealogy thru historical documents on ancestry.com

There is a ton of that aspect to it, and it's all real and about themselves.
They will find themselves dreaming of ghosts, who tell them where to look for the next clues.

Such sleuthing is fun, and far healthier than sleuthing for lies and poison amongst our neighbors.

dajo9 said:

---

QAnon folks were showing up at Trump rallies last summer holding signs and whatnot. It's a scary group - If Trump, today, had the army go into Washington and arrest all the Democrats in Congress and the Supreme Court, these are the people who would celebrate.

---

You mean like Napoleon? Hitler?


Are you familiar with this work of art?

I have a neighbor who is a conspiracy nut, on many things...9/11,. yada, yada. People run when they see him coming. Also have a cranky older neighborhood who will have none of the conspiracy nonsense. Best line I heard from the cranky neighbor to the conspiracy nut, "Bob, we have Jewish and Muslim neighbors who l like but I'm not converting for anyone but we're still good neighbors". I thought that was clever.

It doesn't happen overnight. Folks get lulled into it one little step at a time. We've had many little steps over the past number of years.
Fortunately, there has been opposition, otherwise we'd be much further along in the process. That opposition must continue, become firmer, and must ultimately send trump to St. Helena Island!

http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/riseofhitler/named.htm



Hitler Named Chancellor

Quote:

---

When Adolf Hitler walked into the presidential office of Paul von Hindenburg to become chancellor, the Old Gentleman was so annoyed he would hardly look at him.
He had been kept waiting while Hitler and conservative leader Alfred Hugenberg argued over Hitler's demand for new elections. It was the final argument in what had been a huge tangled web of political infighting and backstabbing that finally resulted in Adolf Hitler becoming Chancellor of Germany.
Germany was a nation that in its history had little experience or interest in democracy. In January 1933, Adolf Hitler took the reins of a 14-year-old German democratic republic which in the minds of many had long outlived its usefulness. By this time, the economic pressures of the Great Depression combined with the indecisive, self-serving nature of its elected politicians had brought government in Germany to a complete standstill. The people were without jobs, without food, quite afraid and desperate for relief.
Now, the man who had spent his entire political career denouncing and attempting to destroy the Republic, was its leader. Around noon on January 30th, Hitler was sworn in.
"I will employ my strength for the welfare of the German people, protect the Constitution and laws of the German people, conscientiously discharge the duties imposed on me, and conduct my affairs of office impartially and with justice to everyone," swore Adolf Hitler.

Chancellor Hitler chats with Gring as Papen and other Cabinet members look on. Behind Papen is Hugenberg who had nearly ruined the whole day for Hitler. Below: Nazi stormtroopers parade through the Brandenburg Gate to celebrate the dawn of a new era.

Below: Hitler in the spotlight gazing at the cheering throngs.

Below: Close-up of both Hitler and Gring acknowledging the cheering crowd.

But by this time, that oath had been repeatedly broken by previous chancellors out of desperation and also out of personal ambition. Chancellors Schleicher and Papen had seriously suggested to Hindenburg the idea of replacing the republic itself with a military dictatorship to solve the crisis of political stagnation. He had turned them both down.
When a teary-eyed Adolf Hitler emerged from the presidential palace as the new chancellor, he was cheered by Nazis and their supporters who believed in him, not the constitution or the republic.
"We've done it!" Hitler had jubilantly shouted to them.
He was to preside over a cabinet that contained, including himself, only 3 Nazis out of 11 posts. Hermann Gring was Minister without Portfolio and Minister of the Interior of Prussia. Nazi, Wilhelm Frick, was Minister of the Interior. The small number of Nazis in the cabinet was planned to help keep Hitler in check.
Franz von Papen was vice-chancellor. Hindenburg had promised him that Hitler would only be received in the office of the president if accompanied by Papen.
This was another way to keep Hitler in check. In fact, Papen had every intention of using the conservative majority in the cabinet along with his own political skills to run the government himself.
"Within two months we will have pushed Hitler so far in the corner that he'll squeak," Papen boasted to a political colleague.
Papen and many non-Nazis thought having Hitler as chancellor was to their advantage. Conservative members of the former aristocratic ruling class desired an end to the republic and a return to an authoritarian government that would restore Germany to glory and bring back their old privileges. They wanted to go back to the days of the Kaiser. For them, putting Hitler in power was just the first step toward achieving that goal. They knew it was likely he would wreck the republic. Then once the republic was abolished, they could put in someone of their own choosing, perhaps even a descendant of the Kaiser.
Big bankers and industrialists, including Krupp and I. G. Farben, had lobbied Hindenburg and schemed behind the scenes on behalf of Hitler because they were convinced he would be good for business. He promised to be for free enterprise and keep down Communism and the trade union movements.
The military also placed its bet on Hitler, believing his repeated promises to tear up the Treaty of Versailles and expand the Army and bring back its former glory.
They all had one thing in common they underestimated Hitler.
On the evening of January 30th, just about every member of the SA and SS turned out in uniform to celebrate the new Fhrer-Chancellor, Adolf Hitler. Carrying torches and singing the Hrst Wessel song, they were cheered by thousands as they marched through the Brandenburg gate and along the Wilhelmstrasse to the presidential palace. Cops on the beat who used to give them trouble now wore swastika armbands and smiled at them. Everywhere was heard the rhythmic pounding beats of jackboots, drums and blaring military parade music.
They saluted Hindenburg as he looked out from a window of the presidential palace. Then they waited at the chancellery for Hitler in a scene carefully staged by Joseph Goebbels. A sea of hand held burning torches cast flickering light on red and gold Nazi banners amid the slow beating of drums in anticipation of seeing the Fhrer. Men, women and children along with the SA and SS waited. He kept them waiting, letting the tension rise. All over Germany, people listened to this on the radio, waiting, and hearing the throngs calling for their Fhrer.
When he appeared in the beam of a spotlight, Hitler was greeted with an outpouring of worshipful adulation unlike anything ever seen before in Germany. Bismarck, Frederick the Great, the Kaiser, had not seen this.
"Heil! Sieg Heil!," (Hail! Hail Victory!) went the chorus of those who believed the hour of deliverance had come in the form of this man now gazing down at them.
"It is almost like a dream a fairytale. The new [Third] Reich has been born. Fourteen years of work have been crowned with victory. The German revolution has begun!" Joseph Goebbels wrote in his diary that night.
Meanwhile, an old comrade of Hitler's sent a telegram to President Hindenburg regarding his new chancellor. Former General Erich Ludendorff had once supported Hitler and had even participated in the failed Beer Hall Putsch in 1923.
"By appointing Hitler Chancellor of the Reich you have handed over our sacred German Fatherland to one of the greatest demagogues of all time. I prophesy to you this evil man will plunge our Reich into the abyss and will inflict immeasurable woe on our nation. Future generations will curse you in your grave for this action," the telegram from Ludendorff stated.
Within weeks, Hitler would be absolute dictator of Germany and would set in motion a chain of events resulting in the Second World War and the eventual deaths of nearly 50 million humans through that war and through deliberate extermination.
To begin, Hitler would see the German democratic republic go down in flames, literally. In February 1933, the Nazis hatched a plan to burn the Reichstag building and end democracy once and for all.

---

concordtom said:

---

dajo9 said:

---

concordtom said:

---

dajo,
I don't think this is a difficult one.
Speak truth to power, speak truth to neighbors, and do not allow shyness or 'trying to get along' stop you from speaking truth.

There were lots of good Germans who remained quiet while that country went down the tubes. If more people spoke up and said, "this is wrong", perhaps millions of lives would have been saved.

I think none of us need to go out of our way and inflame our neighbors or our family members, but I do believe that if someone wants our honest opinion, we should at least be willing to say it to him.

People who have gone to the dark side of trump-world need a course correction, just like our country does. If the sane among us do not help steer the ship, you can expect it to continue to falter.

---

I definitely have and will stick to my guns. He already texted me asking if I thought the media was being fair to Trump and I told him the media was incredibly unfair to Hillary Clinton in 2016. So I'll be straightforward in my views but I don't want to antagonize the situation (like I do here sometimes, haha).

Our beer is delayed until Wednesday because he got held up at work.

---

If he's coming in trying to convince you, then you can just listen politely, say you disagree, and change the subject where appropriate.

But it could be that he's wanting to check in with you and honestly get your take, because he respects your opinion. And that's where I'm saying people need to be calm and clear as to why Trump is unfit to lead this country. If the resistance is quiet and passive, then he's going to leave thinking it's no big deal, and maybe continue to believe the BS the right/trump faction feeds him. No.

I wouldn't get into the Hillary thing. That's a losing debate because there is so much false accusations and wild conspiracy BS (they succeeded in tainting her reputation, and she aided it with the email server), and plus, this current situation has NOTHING TO DO with Hillary. This is all about Trump. Sure, the GOP wants to flip the focal point because they know that the trump talking points are not good. So, if he says, "what about Hillary?" Say, "Dude, that's so in the past and not at play anymore. Whatever happened or didn't happen.... we can debate that for the next hour but it's in the past and doesn't matter. What does matter is the next election, and Hillary is not running."

I don't know what your relationship is with this person, but I do not allow for an ounce of "well, maybe it's okay" when I talk politics with people. I'm very clear that he's unacceptable. This is not a case of just having differing opinions. This is a once ina lifetime monster who has risen up to our country. It's very dire, or at least has the potential to become very dire. I repeat, Hitler.

And I've also thought and read about Napoleon, too. After he was sent to Elba, he escaped and was met by French soldiers sent to stop him. Vastly outnumbered, he walked out with arms spread open: "Here I am, come shoot your emperor!" His cult of personality won them over and he thus gathered his forces big time. They then marched to continue warring. He was eventually defeated at Waterloo.

Trump could be the same. He could lose the 2020 election, but will continue spouting off and causing havoc in our country. He needs to be rebuked soundly by everyone. He messed around with the lie of birtherism, and got a lot of mileage out of that. Imagine what lies he will foment after he's gone from office. He will never stop because he is a sick man. And he will bring us all down. His type does not ride off into the sunset. His type goes out in a blaze of glory. It builds the story in his mind. Riding off into the sunset is too boring. What's he gonna do? Sip a pia colada surrounded by hookers? Not good enough for him. He can never be satisfied with any accomplishment or conclusionary event because his narcissistic demand is endless. And he surely becomes more dangerous the older he gets because realizing his lifespan is shrinking he's willing to take greater and greater risks.

Trump has long been a joke. He has been an irresponsible mouth and citizen for decades. He has filed for bankruptcy many times, he bankrupted Atlantic City. He was shut out of NY funding circles for good reasons. He lies about facts and cheats, breaks laws. He incites others to argue rather than come together. His negatives are endless. Yet, he seems to be a master of fooling the masses. It's amazing to watch, and I have not understood it, other than the "cult of personality" aspect. We must resist getting caught up in it. Be rational. Choose another candidate. It's pretty simple.

---

Thanks, I think this is good advice

https://www.axios.com/tracking-russia-investigation-mueller-trump-718bc918-984b-4df1-b1a0-5dafff0347b3.html


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-us-canada-40709270

"Robert Mueller, the special counsel, is a strategic mastermind cornering a gang of simpletons watched by a peanut gallery of gawkers and hecklers." Richard Wolffe, The Guardian

dajo9 said:

---

concordtom said:

---

dajo,
I don't think this is a difficult one.
Speak truth to power, speak truth to neighbors, and do not allow shyness or 'trying to get along' stop you from speaking truth.

There were lots of good Germans who remained quiet while that country went down the tubes. If more people spoke up and said, "this is wrong", perhaps millions of lives would have been saved.

I think none of us need to go out of our way and inflame our neighbors or our family members, but I do believe that if someone wants our honest opinion, we should at least be willing to say it to him.

People who have gone to the dark side of trump-world need a course correction, just like our country does. If the sane among us do not help steer the ship, you can expect it to continue to falter.

---

I definitely have and will stick to my guns. He already texted me asking if I thought the media was being fair to Trump and I told him the media was incredibly unfair to Hillary Clinton in 2016. So I'll be straightforward in my views but I don't want to antagonize the situation (like I do here sometimes, haha).

Our beer is delayed until Wednesday because he got held up at work.

---

Our beer continued to be delayed because of his work. Thursday I told him I couldn't make it because I was taking my 10 year old son to the local high school musical. I asked if he and his son wanted to join us. Haven't heard back from him after that. haha.

That's too bad.
But, maybe next time see if he and his son want to go target shooting at the local gun range. See how long it takes to hear back on that offer.

concordtom said:

---

That's too bad.
But, maybe next time see if he and his son want to go target shooting at the local gun range. See how long it takes to hear back on that offer.

---

There is a local gun range owned by a guy who lives in town and I've been asked a couple times if I have any interest. I have none.

Haha again - the left and right live in different worlds.

Yeah, I was being sarcastic.
I would never want to go to a gun range either.
But it would be I teresting to see if this person, tilting right, was like, "Alright! Let's go!"

Dajo

I was watching a cbs news bit which led me to a TedTalk by Katharine Hayhoe, which led me to her YouTube page on Climate Weirding. Neat lady, I like what she's doing, trying to educate people about climate change. She's a climate scientist. You can easily find her.
Anyways, one of her talks is this one, which covered a bit of new info for me.

When trying to convince someone of something, if they are predisposed to believe the opposite, if you throw facts at them to try and prove your point, they are likely to completely reject your facts and your opinion. And not only that, but they are likely to harden their stance and oppose what you are pitching even more.

Say what?

I'm going to post bits that explain. Maybe I can learn some new moves.
Thanks for the tip, Katharine.

https://bigthink.com/think-tank/the-backfire-effect-why-facts-dont-win-arguments

The Backfire Effect: Why Facts Don't Win Arguments
Why are people sometimes more emboldened in their beliefs after being exposed to corrective information?

[url=https://bigthink.com/login][/url]
15 October, 2013


A group of Dartmouth researchers have studied the problem of the so-called "backfire effect," which is defined as the effect in which "corrections actually increase misperceptions among the group in question."
The problem here may be the way your friend is receiving these facts. Since your friend knows you and your opinions well, he or she does not view you as an "omniscient" source of information. When it comes to receiving corrective information about a public policy issue, the authors of the Dartmouth Study note

Quote:

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people typically receive corrective information within "objective" news reports pitting two sides of an argument against each other, which is significantly more ambiguous than receiving a correct answer from an omniscient source. In such cases, citizens are likely to resist or reject arguments and evidence contradicting their opinions a view that is consistent with a wide array of research.

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So when we read a news story that presents both sides of an issue, we simply pick the side we happen to agree with and it reinforces our viewpoint. But what of those individuals who don't simply resist challenges to their views, but who actually come to hold their original opinion even more strongly?


This study goes a long way to explain the state of rational discourse in the country right now. So what can be done? How can you have a more effective discussion with your friend about Obamacare or Peyton Manning?

Think about an argument more as a partnership, says Julia Galef, President of the Center for Applied Rationality. Read about that here: http://bigthink.com/in-their-own-words/the-key-to-rational-argument-reframe-it-as-a-partnership