Straight Pride Parade

7,005 Views | 141 Replies | Last: 10 mo ago by GBear4Life
GBear4Life
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dajo9 said:

I think it takes a lot of gumption for a person to look into the emotional and mental distress of another family and from the outside decide they know what's best. I generally think governments and non-family should stay out of it and families and their doctors should do the best they can in a challenging situation.
This is a ridiculous argument. It's empathy and ideology run amok. You don't address why any of my points or facts about this issue are wrong and why, you just deliver a general and vague talking point aimed at nothing more than to ascribe gall to anybody poking holes at the "pro" LGBT orthodoxy.

Absolutely whatever a patient and doctor want to do is always intrinsically Ok? How about when a severely depressed non-terminally ill wants doctor to assist their suicide?

Government utilizes regulation of mental and physical health professionals all the time to protect the patient, even against the behest of the patient themselves; and despite this reality, I could probably go to my MD tomorrow and get a prescription for any type of disorder I want.

Deluded parents and their doctors, who have an incentive to do expensive procedures, facilitating often irreversible physical and psychological treatment for their "trans" children should be legal child abuse and malpractice. This I think is intuitively true to most sensible people, but also due to the totality of facts of the whole situation. But I think even well-meaning, self proclaimed "pro" LGBT activists are blinded by their desire to placate the immediate needs/wants of its constituents.

Quote:

Some American girls have had double mastectomies as young as 13. Planned Parenthood operates on an "informed consent" basis meaning that young people are briefed on "both the risks and the benefits" of cross-sex hormones and do not require a letter of referral from a therapist. The organization's website states: "If you are eligible, Planned Parenthood staff may be able to start hormone therapy as early as the first visit." Meanwhile, in 2015 the National Institutes of Health (NIH) awarded a $5.7 million taxpayer-funded grant for a five-year study on "the impact of early medical treatment in transgender youth." According to a progress report, the minimum age for the cross-sex-hormones cohort was decreased from 13 to eight.
BearsWiin
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dajo9 said:

I think it takes a lot of gumption for a person to look into the emotional and mental distress of another family and from the outside decide they know what's best. I generally think governments and non-family should stay out of it and families and their doctors should do the best they can in a challenging situation.
Yes, it does. The self-righteous ***** you're talking to has a lot of ******* ing nerve

It's like we have our own little dollar store Benny Shapiro here
sycasey
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The evidence on rates of "detransition" among those who have had sex changes seems . . . mixed at best. Perhaps understandably, it's a bit difficult to get a large enough group to adequately study the issue.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detransition

I don't know enough about the medical science behind things like hormone therapy, but depending on that I could see an argument for preventing children from undergoing the procedure, and either way anyone should go through a long period of vetting by doctors before undergoing any major operation like a sex change. My understanding is that this is how it's usually done already.
Yogi Bear
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GBear4Life said:

dajo9 said:

According to this study 1 in 5 LGBTQ youth aged 13 - 24 attempted suicide in the past year.

Hey, I have an idea. Maybe older LGBTQ folks should have a parade or something aimed at instilling pride in being who you are to younger folks who are still trying to learn to adapt to the realities of being different from what is generally considered the norm. Maybe even non-LGBTQ folks could be supportive of such an event and embrace the ideal of inclusion. I think my idea could help a lot of people in need of help.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trevor-project-lgbtq-mental-health-survey_l_5cffa50de4b06d839dc554bc
Going out on a limb, but their suicide rates, particularly trans which to my understanding is the highest of any group in America, is *probably* because they're depressed. With trans, they were born with a disorder, and culture's and even medicine's proclaiming the answer is pretending to be the opposite sex through harmones and reconstruction surgery, and ensuring them safe spaces.

It doesn't work. The illness/disorder, centered around depression from not being comfortable in one's own skin and body, is what needs to be treated.
concordtom
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GBear4Life said:

sycasey said:

GBear4Life said:


Going out on a limb, but their suicide rates, particularly trans which to my understanding is the highest of any group in America, is *probably* because they're depressed. With trans, they were born with a disorder, and culture's and even medicine's proclaiming the answer is pretending to be the opposite sex through harmones and reconstruction surgery, and ensuring them safe spaces.

It doesn't work. The illness/disorder, centered around depression from not being comfortable in one's own skin and body, is what needs to be treated.

So to your mind, a sex change does not qualify as treatment?
I think the suicide rate post-operation being virtually identical pre-operation effectively demonstrates that it at least certainly isn't appropriate treatment a considerable percentage of the time.

Sex-change reversal operations are on the rise, and hormone treatment is being given to children with parent permission. That should be malpractice, IMO. I think it's odd that people will judge and sometimes mock cosmetic surgeries like breast implants and, say, someone like Michael Jackson surgically transforming himself into a caucasian, as being inherently unhealthy, self-involved and deluded. But sex-transformation? That's just sensible decision in one's own rational self-interest.

The patient believes mutilating one's self to align mind/body will solve the problem, when in fact the reality of the depression from still knowing it's not "real", so to speak, still hasn't been solved.

I think treatment to help the patient's depression in order to feel comfortable, safe, healthy and confident in a world where they are a very small percentage of the population that was born with gender dysphoria, a mind/body disequilibrium is crucial. No clinician or MD would recommend to a depressed patient, whose depression centers around feeling physically unattractive, to get cosmetic surgery to look less ugly.
Please consider there was once a very large faction of society who believed that slavery was cool. They had rational arguments for it.
Now consider that you are standing right next to them in the march of progress.

You're antiquated, and on the wrong side of history, buddy.
GBear4Life
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concordtom said:



Please consider there was once a very large faction of society who believed that slavery was cool. They had rational arguments for it.
Now consider that you are standing right next to them in the march of progress.

You're antiquated, and on the wrong side of history, buddy.
That's not really an argument. It was unsubstantive. You're using a non sequitur to appeal to moral superiority. And it was rec'd 4 times. Gotta love it.
AunBear89
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Your righteous sanctimony and complete lack of self-awareness make it hard for anyone with a couple of brain cells to rub together to take you seriously.

You keep posting essentially the same right wing buzz word salad in every post and expect all of us to be dazzled by your wit and wisdom.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- Benjamin Disraeli, popularized by Mark Twain
GBear4Life
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That is not an argument either. It is a statement that you don't like me.

I haven't even said anything controversial or engaged in moralizing in this thread. I'm making the argument that the narrative surrounding -- and the methods by which we try to help and support -- the obstacles trans face, centered around suicide rates, are sometimes misguided. It's actually a serious topic I don't take lightly.

The posts on this page that are lit up blue are not saying anything substantive at all, merely non sequiturs and personal shots at other posters. Sycasey actually engaged the topic, and some of what I said, and he didn't get the Hi-5's from the crew.
AunBear89
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GBear4Life said:

That is not an argument either. It is a statement that you don't like me.

I haven't even said anything controversial or engaged in moralizing in this thread. I'm making the argument that the narrative surrounding -- and the methods by which we try to help and support -- the obstacles trans face, centered around suicide rates, are sometimes misguided. It's actually a serious topic I don't take lightly.

The posts on this page that are lit up blue are not saying anything substantive at all, merely non sequiturs and personal shots at other posters. Sycasey actually engaged the topic, and some of what I said, and he didn't get the Hi-5's from the crew.

Exhibit A
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- Benjamin Disraeli, popularized by Mark Twain
dajo9
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GBear4Life, we've heard you. Your discussion has grown tiresome. You need to calm down.


An old white dude
Another Bear
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GBear4Life
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Not to belabor the point, but the ones in a tizzy on this thread and about this topic are the ones who have nothing substantive to contribute.
GBear4Life
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concordtom said:



Please consider there was once a very large faction of society who believed that slavery was cool. They had rational arguments for it.
No they didn't.

Quote:

Now consider that you are standing right next to them in the march of progress.
I don't know what this means, or what "progress" in this context implies. Vagueness and ambiguity are tell tale signs you have no idea what you are even saying, thus you have no idea how to defend it. It seems clear to me that any ideas of how to help transgenders that conflicts with LGBT orthodoxy triggers you.

Quote:

You're antiquated, and on the wrong side of history, buddy.
More empty rhetoric, appealing to (incorrectly) the non sequitur of historical justification for slavery as evidence (proof?) that I'm wrong, and implying I am "anti-trans" somewhat analogous to historical support of slavery, an implication without a modicum of evidence.
Anarchistbear
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It's on. Boston approved the permit. Milo Yiannopoulous is going to be The Grand Marshall which I have to say is funny on a number of levels. Maybe there should be a new "grait" category
GBear4Life
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City still discriminating...refuses to raise straight flag but raises gay flag.

Quote:

"The city maintains that its flag poles are a forum for government speech. As such, the city maintains selectivity and control over the messages conveyed by the flags flown on our flag poles, and has chosen not to display the 'straight pride' flag," a city spokesperson said

AunBear89
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GBear4Life said:

City still discriminating...refuses to raise straight flag but raises gay flag.

Quote:

"The city maintains that its flag poles are a forum for government speech. As such, the city maintains selectivity and control over the messages conveyed by the flags flown on our flag poles, and has chosen not to display the 'straight pride' flag," a city spokesperson said




What are you talking about? The straight pride flag is the one on the left in that picture. I see it all the time on pickup trucks with gun racks and naked lady mud flaps.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- Benjamin Disraeli, popularized by Mark Twain
sycasey
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Maybe we should put it to a vote in the city of Boston whether they would prefer to have a Gay Pride or Straight Pride flag.
GBear4Life
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sycasey said:

Maybe we should put it to a vote in the city of Boston whether they would prefer to have a Gay Pride or Straight Pride flag.
would you support Lubbock, TX putting the same thing to a vote
AunBear89
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GBear4Life said:

sycasey said:

Maybe we should put it to a vote in the city of Boston whether they would prefer to have a Gay Pride or Straight Pride flag.
would you support Lubbock, TX putting the same thing to a vote


This is the Straight Pride flag for Lubbock:
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- Benjamin Disraeli, popularized by Mark Twain
sycasey
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GBear4Life said:

sycasey said:

Maybe we should put it to a vote in the city of Boston whether they would prefer to have a Gay Pride or Straight Pride flag.
would you support Lubbock, TX putting the same thing to a vote

Given that people only seem to care about a Straight Pride flag when there is a Gay Pride flag, I think that won't be an issue.

But you do make a good point: people who want to revel in their "Straight Pride" can easily move to a place that will be more supportive. No need to migrate to Boston and have silly protests.
Another Bear
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Just a reminder...

'Straight Pride' organisers revealed to have links to far-right and white nationalist groups

Quote:

Group behind proposed rally is involved with notorious Resist Marxism group a hub for far-right extremists

Not really about straight pride, more about sowing division and hate. My predication given it's Boston...there's gonna be trouble, but for the straight Nazis, fascists and goons.

So to those lining up to support this...TAKE OFF THAT BROWN SHIRT!!!
GBear4Life
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AunBear89 said:

GBear4Life said:

sycasey said:

Maybe we should put it to a vote in the city of Boston whether they would prefer to have a Gay Pride or Straight Pride flag.
would you support Lubbock, TX putting the same thing to a vote


This is the Straight Pride flag for Lubbock:

lol
GBear4Life
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Another Bear said:

Just a reminder...

'Straight Pride' organisers revealed to have links to far-right and white nationalist groups

Quote:

Group behind proposed rally is involved with notorious Resist Marxism group a hub for far-right extremists

Not really about straight pride, more about sowing division and hate. My predication given it's Boston...there's gonna be trouble, but for the straight Nazis, fascists and goons. .
If people on the ground push back against it and conflict ensues, it will be a feather in the MAGA camp for 2020. Best political move by LGBTers who despise the straight parade would be to acquiesce it, or better yet publicly support any celebration of sexuality under the rubric of equality.
GBear4Life
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sycasey said:

GBear4Life said:

sycasey said:

Maybe we should put it to a vote in the city of Boston whether they would prefer to have a Gay Pride or Straight Pride flag.
would you support Lubbock, TX putting the same thing to a vote

Given that people only seem to care about a Straight Pride flag when there is a Gay Pride flag, I think that won't be an issue.

But you do make a good point: people who want to revel in their "Straight Pride" can easily move to a place that will be more supportive. No need to migrate to Boston and have silly protests.
That's not the point and you know it. It's about the specious claim that, in principle, you'd leave it up to citizens to determine which groups to discriminate against and which to support.

Let the trolls troll to make their point (a perfectly reasonable one, I might add, even if I wouldn't engage their methods: that if one group is free to celebrate their sexuality so should others. Should hypocrisy ensue in light of other groups expecting the same treatment, that's a reality that warrants scrutiny).
oski003
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sycasey said:

GBear4Life said:

sycasey said:

Maybe we should put it to a vote in the city of Boston whether they would prefer to have a Gay Pride or Straight Pride flag.
would you support Lubbock, TX putting the same thing to a vote

Given that people only seem to care about a Straight Pride flag when there is a Gay Pride flag, I think that won't be an issue.

But you do make a good point: people who want to revel in their "Straight Pride" can easily move to a place that will be more supportive. No need to migrate to Boston and have silly protests.


... and people who want to revel in gay pride can easily move to San Francisco. Looks like this is settled. Wait. No. That wouldn't be right.
Anarchistbear
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Actually the strategy for the Gay Pride Parade should be to walk over in drag and make it a universal SLBGTQ love fest. Milo will be so conflicted he'd probably take a Pina colada and go off with a sailor.
Another Bear
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Here's what I predict for Milo and his straight boy Nazi supporters at the Boston Straight Parade... an armada of drag queens, diesel dykes on bikes, transgender activists and the full on leather crowd will descent on the hate mongers...and literally smother them in love and bodily fluids!

Milo will flip out in confusion and jump into the "mosh pit" and announces his conversion to straight but first, by the rules and bylaws of the Straight Pride men, he must give everyone in the room a BJ.

Oh the humanity!
sycasey
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GBear4Life said:

sycasey said:

GBear4Life said:

sycasey said:

Maybe we should put it to a vote in the city of Boston whether they would prefer to have a Gay Pride or Straight Pride flag.
would you support Lubbock, TX putting the same thing to a vote

Given that people only seem to care about a Straight Pride flag when there is a Gay Pride flag, I think that won't be an issue.

But you do make a good point: people who want to revel in their "Straight Pride" can easily move to a place that will be more supportive. No need to migrate to Boston and have silly protests.
That's not the point and you know it. It's about the specious claim that, in principle, you'd leave it up to citizens to determine which groups to discriminate against and which to support.

Let the trolls troll to make their point (a perfectly reasonable one, I might add, even if I wouldn't engage their methods: that if one group is free to celebrate their sexuality so should others. Should hypocrisy ensue in light of other groups expecting the same treatment, that's a reality that warrants scrutiny).

I see, so you agree that it's fine for activists to care about pushing causes in locales that disagree with them.

Therefore it's also fine for liberals to care about things like trans rights and abortion in Alabama, yes?
GBear4Life
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sycasey said:




I see, so you agree that it's fine for activists to care about pushing causes in locales that disagree with them.

Therefore it's also fine for liberals to care about things like trans rights and abortion in Alabama, yes?
uh, yeah...don't you? (I assumed you were being facetious and flippant earlier...now I'm not sure)
sycasey
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GBear4Life said:

sycasey said:




I see, so you agree that it's fine for activists to care about pushing causes in locales that disagree with them.

Therefore it's also fine for liberals to care about things like trans rights and abortion in Alabama, yes?
uh, yeah...don't you? (I assumed you were being facetious and flippant earlier...now I'm not sure)

Sure, just trying to make sure. Frequently people will make the argument that folks in California shouldn't care about what happens in the South.
concordtom
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GBear4Life said:

concordtom said:



Please consider there was once a very large faction of society who believed that slavery was cool. They had rational arguments for it.
Now consider that you are standing right next to them in the march of progress.

You're antiquated, and on the wrong side of history, buddy.
That's not really an argument. It was unsubstantive. You're using a non sequitur to appeal to moral superiority. And it was rec'd 4 times. Gotta love it.
Hey, if you want to suggest that you're on the losing end of the moral superiority battle, fine with me.
I see consistency here, fits with my assessment, too!
Anarchistbear
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Demonstration against the police and Google at SF Pride. This is the spirit not hats, key chains and coffee cups

https://twitter.com/hashtag/shameful?src=hashtag_click


GBear4Life
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You mean these clowns? Peaceful as in breaking the law

https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Protestors-block-2019-SF-Pride-Parade-14062339.php

https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2019/06/30/protesters-disrupt-san-francisco-pride-parade-police-make-arrests/

https://abc7news.com/2-arrested-after-protest-temporarily-halts-san-francisco-pride-parade-/5372466/

https://patch.com/california/rockridge/oakland-woman-arrested-police-officer-hurt-sf-pride-protest
dajo9
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"a totally peaceful racist group"

What happens when you accidentally say the truth - from an organizer of a straight pride parade

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/modesto-straight-pride-peaceful-racist-group_n_5d4d7d0ee4b0066eb710bb67

An old white dude
B.A. Bearacus
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dajo9 said:

"a totally peaceful racist group"

What happens when you accidentally say the truth - from an organizer of a straight pride parade
Republicans in this forum not buying it. Where is the tattoo on his forehead saying "I'm a racist, no seriously, I'm literally a racist."?
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