https://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2019/08/09/immigration-customs-enforcement-raids-000941

Good timing was just reading how the kids are been stranded left here and there because parents are picked up by ICE.

Aside from what think about immigration "illegal" or not.

If a family of 4,5,6 what's comes to immigration and says we will all leave voluntarily but us gov foots the air fair to desired country of destination( kinda wish those with immigration issues would all leave at once from the fields to the tech companies , just up and leave in the span of a couple weeks/mass exodus and the see what happens.

How much money is being wasting / who is getting rich off this and how many enemies/terrorist are we creating?

okaydo said:

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Dirty.

The poultry industry in Mississippi has been recruiting Latinos for a long time. They used to send busses to the Gulf and beyond but after a while these things become self- sustaining. Working in poultry is not only hard but dangerous and there are advantages in having a workforce that won't complain, can't strike and can't vote. Latinos have transformed the region and many now are permanent residents. They'll send this batch home and another batch will come. Cheap chicken rules.

Lot of Republicans, and business owners generally, don't want to curb illegal immigration for that very reason.

Republicans had the opportunity to go all-Trump on immigration during the Bush years but did not.

Are any of these child born in the US ?

Gotta have our cake and eat it too?
If there was no work they would not come/be here!!!
Do you think that mind state is compartmentalized? Where and how does it bleed over and influence other policies...Government/Politics/Social and Moral landscape.

It's simple, deport those who are here illegally. Every raid = job openings for Americans (often Americans blacks and hispanics), the people regressive liberals pretend to care about.

If you want to run performance interviews with those whose resume suggests positive ROI for Americans, by all means.

If their American family members don't like it, they can join them on the bus out of here. This breaking up families thing is nonsense. If you insist on being with your now-deported family members, you're free to leave with them.

A cynic might say this makes the wall sound more cost-effective.

I don't see any way around this immigration issue, that has so many different aspects to it, then some comprehensive legislation (which may never happen) and in the short run greater expenditures for processing new citizens, and removing those who don't qualify. And yes, one reason enforcement has been lax is because American business wanted the cheap labor to undercut paying citizens more money.

People need to have a right to form unions and organize but that's been beaten down in a lot of the country

I've heard it all now: Liberals appealing to fiscal responsibility to demonize immigration law and its enforcement agencies.

GBear4Life said:

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It's simple, deport those who are here illegally. Every raid = job openings for Americans (often Americans blacks and hispanics), the people regressive liberals pretend to care about.

If you want to run performance interviews with those whose resume suggests positive ROI for Americans, by all means.

If their American family members don't like it, they can join them on the bus out of here. This breaking up families thing is nonsense. If you insist on being with your now-deported family members, you're free to leave with them.

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Nice deflection/ non answering

going4roses said:

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GBear4Life said:

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It's simple, deport those who are here illegally. Every raid = job openings for Americans (often Americans blacks and hispanics), the people regressive liberals pretend to care about.

If you want to run performance interviews with those whose resume suggests positive ROI for Americans, by all means.

If their American family members don't like it, they can join them on the bus out of here. This breaking up families thing is nonsense. If you insist on being with your now-deported family members, you're free to leave with them.

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Nice deflection/ non answering

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*** were you asking, as your post was garbled and unintelligible. Having cake and eat it too?

Not to mention you never address any counter points made against you.

Check that -- that's not true. You seldom make any points at all.

GBear4Life said:

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I've heard it all now: Liberals appealing to fiscal responsibility to demonize immigration law and its enforcement agencies.

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Stop the virtue signaling. The whole Department of Homeland Security is useless and should be s$itcanned.

going4roses said:

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okaydo said:

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Dirty.

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In a, "Do as I say, not as I do", hypocritical instance, it has been reported that the Idiot in Chief employs the undocumented at his golf courses. I wonder if ICE will raid his courses?

https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/423465-attorney-says-more-undocumented-workers-are-employed-at-trump-golf-course

What a ****ing COCKROACH!

Anarchistbear said:

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GBear4Life said:

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I've heard it all now: Liberals appealing to fiscal responsibility to demonize immigration law and its enforcement agencies.

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Stop the virtue signaling. The whole Department of Homeland Security is useless and should be s$itcanned.

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You sound a lot like Trump. I'm not even sure what is going on with the National Intel Advisor other than all the people at th top are leaving.

wifeisafurd said:

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Anarchistbear said:

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GBear4Life said:

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I've heard it all now: Liberals appealing to fiscal responsibility to demonize immigration law and its enforcement agencies.

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Stop the virtue signaling. The whole Department of Homeland Security is useless and should be s$itcanned.

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You sound a lot like Trump. I'm not even sure what is going on with the National Intel Advisor other than all the people at th top are leaving.

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Trump and the Democrats will never cut Homeland Security, the military budgets or immigration enforcement. It's all
Mother's milk to them. In fact we lived without Homeland Security until 2001. Nobody's life has been improved by any spending on the military or Homeland.

Anarchistbear said:

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GBear4Life said:

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I've heard it all now: Liberals appealing to fiscal responsibility to demonize immigration law and its enforcement agencies.

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Stop the virtue signaling. The whole Department of Homeland Security is useless and should be s$itcanned.

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Cut DHS? Almost as ridiculous as anarchism

Anarchistbear said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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Anarchistbear said:

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GBear4Life said:

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I've heard it all now: Liberals appealing to fiscal responsibility to demonize immigration law and its enforcement agencies.

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Stop the virtue signaling. The whole Department of Homeland Security is useless and should be s$itcanned.

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You sound a lot like Trump. I'm not even sure what is going on with the National Intel Advisor other than all the people at th top are leaving.

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Trump and the Democrats will never cut Homeland Security, the military budgets or immigration enforcement. It's all
Mother's milk to them. In fact we lived without Homeland Security until 2001. Nobody's life has been improved by any spending on the military or Homeland.

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So I take it this is a cost cutting measure, instead of a Trump deep state issue? BTW, should we eliminate the intel entities as well to save money, since Trump is basically making them leaderless? I assume the many cases of Homeland stopping terriost attacks is basically false news?

wifeisafurd said:

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Anarchistbear said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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Anarchistbear said:

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GBear4Life said:

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I've heard it all now: Liberals appealing to fiscal responsibility to demonize immigration law and its enforcement agencies.

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Stop the virtue signaling. The whole Department of Homeland Security is useless and should be s$itcanned.

---

You sound a lot like Trump. I'm not even sure what is going on with the National Intel Advisor other than all the people at th top are leaving.

---

Trump and the Democrats will never cut Homeland Security, the military budgets or immigration enforcement. It's all
Mother's milk to them. In fact we lived without Homeland Security until 2001. Nobody's life has been improved by any spending on the military or Homeland.

---

So I take it this is a cost cutting measure, instead of a Trump deep state issue? BTW, should we eliminate the intel entities as well to save money, since Trump is basically making them leaderless? I assume the many cases of Homeland stopping terriost attacks is basically false news?

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It's not a deep state- it is the obvious bipartisan security state. 2001 was 18 years ago and we're still at war. We have troops in over 100 countries are actively fighting in 7 countries- I doubt anyone can name them. And yet the "war on terror" continues at abroad and home even if we don't have an enemy. Bigger budgets, militarize the border, erosion of civil liberties- Americans being surveilled and spied on by their own government. And if anyone- like Tulsi Gabbard-tries to question this she is smeared as a terrorist apologist by both sides.

One thing is always certain in our recent history. The government response to these over hyped fears is always worse than the problem

War on communism- wars in Vietnam, Central America. Witch hunts, HUAC

The war on the weathermen- spy on MLK, wipe out Black Panthers. FBI and cointelpro

War on Drugs- destabilize a hemisphere, surge of migrants, mass incarceration

War on Terror- endless war, removal of civil liberties and due process.

We are the biggest perpetrators and exporters of violence in the world. We're the biggest exporter of guns in the world. There are more guns than people here. We are a violent and alienated country. And yet shooting up a Walmart is shocking? Tell that to 400,000 dead Iraqis

And now more "fake wars" are in play- wars against immigrants, wars against random shooters. . All of this is the same playbook- divide, conquer, whip up hysteria, distract and make this a more authoritarian country. So, yes, don't give the military or Homeland security a cent

Anarchistbear said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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Anarchistbear said:

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GBear4Life said:

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I've heard it all now: Liberals appealing to fiscal responsibility to demonize immigration law and its enforcement agencies.

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Stop the virtue signaling. The whole Department of Homeland Security is useless and should be s$itcanned.

---

You sound a lot like Trump. I'm not even sure what is going on with the National Intel Advisor other than all the people at th top are leaving.

---

Trump and the Democrats will never cut Homeland Security, the military budgets or immigration enforcement. It's all
Mother's milk to them. In fact we lived without Homeland Security until 2001. Nobody's life has been improved by any spending on the military or Homeland.

---

Homeland security gave us Janet Napalitano, who gave us Carol Christ, who fixed Cal.

GBear4Life said:

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If their American family members don't like it, they can join them on the bus out of here. This breaking up families thing is nonsense. If you insist on being with your now-deported family members, you're free to leave with them.

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Do you think there is a moral issue when the family members are children who have never lived in any other country? How can they make an informed choice?

GBear4Life said:

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It's simple, deport those who are here illegally. Every raid = job openings for Americans (often Americans blacks and hispanics), the people regressive liberals pretend to care about.

If you want to run performance interviews with those whose resume suggests positive ROI for Americans, by all means.

If their American family members don't like it, they can join them on the bus out of here. This breaking up families thing is nonsense. If you insist on being with your now-deported family members, you're free to leave with them.

---

Wages have been suppressed for 40 years due to government policies that favor return of capital over return on labor and the decimation of organized labor. It has little to do with the point you are trying to make.

Blacks in Mississippi aren't going to take these jobs neither are poor whites. They were the prior workforce who tried and failed to organize and didn't relish working in one of the most dangerous industries in America for low pay.

The people that will take these jobs are the same people who just got fired or the plant moves to some place where there is a cheaper force. Better to keep the now resident Latinos

sycasey said:

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GBear4Life said:

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If their American family members don't like it, they can join them on the bus out of here. This breaking up families thing is nonsense. If you insist on being with your now-deported family members, you're free to leave with them.

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Do you think there is a moral issue when the family members are children who have never lived in any other country? How can they make an informed choice?

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No. It's not their choice to make. They are dependent on their parents, as are all children anywhere in the world. Of course it's unfortunate. I'd prefer folks who spawned children were responsible enough to not be reckless so long as other humans are dependent on them.

The waxing poetic about "oh the kids" is circular and has no end. Everything we do can be argued to be lacking in compassion. I care about the plight of homeless folks. I can only presume you and others do as well. But neither of us are giving any of them our spare bedrooms.

You're never as 'compassionate' as the next guy, and you are always more compassionate then the other guy.

Anarchistbear said:

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Wages have been suppressed for 40 years due to government policies that favor return of capital over return on labor and the decimation of organized labor. It has little to do with the point you are trying to make.

Blacks in Mississippi aren't going to take these jobs neither are poor whites. They were the prior workforce who tried and failed to organize and didn't relish working in one of the most dangerous industries in America for low pay.

The people that will take these jobs are the same people who just got fired or the plant moves to some place where there is a cheaper force. Better to keep the now resident Latinos

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So importing poverty and menial labor that can't assimilate to America and the communities in which they reside is kosher because corporations are the bad guys? Immigration policy is a problem, which is the government's enabling of business' desire to maintain a healthy supply of menial labor. Because if Americans won't don the job for $8/hr, they will have to raise wages until sufficient supply of laborers develops.

That 'blacks in the south' won't do these jobs is a red herring. It's completely irrelevant to the merits of immigration policy and corporate nefariousness.

Yeah, so let's keep illegals under some misguided and false pretenses about 'what will corporations do without these people?!', a laughable premise.

Vacated jobs by illegals means openings for AMERICANS. But these businesses are just waiting for the next crop of illegals who will do anything to stay alive.

When regressives talk about minimum wage it's like anything less than $15 is shilling for big business. When the topic turns to immigration on these same points, their lips start to flap.

You have the talking points down pat. I have to give you that much.

Another unsubstantive, one-liner retort.

You're clearly in this in good faith.

GBear4Life said:

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Anarchistbear said:

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Wages have been suppressed for 40 years due to government policies that favor return of capital over return on labor and the decimation of organized labor. It has little to do with the point you are trying to make.

Blacks in Mississippi aren't going to take these jobs neither are poor whites. They were the prior workforce who tried and failed to organize and didn't relish working in one of the most dangerous industries in America for low pay.

The people that will take these jobs are the same people who just got fired or the plant moves to some place where there is a cheaper force. Better to keep the now resident Latinos

---

So importing poverty and menial labor that can't assimilate to America and the communities in which they reside is kosher because corporations are the bad guys? Immigration policy is a problem, which is the government's enabling of business' desire to maintain a healthy supply of menial labor. Because if Americans won't don the job for $8/hr, they will have to raise wages until sufficient supply of laborers develops.

That 'blacks in the south' won't do these jobs is a red herring. It's completely irrelevant to the merits of immigration policy and corporate nefariousness.

Yeah, so let's keep illegals under some misguided and false pretenses about 'what will corporations do without these people?!', a laughable premise.

Vacated jobs by illegals means openings for AMERICANS. But these businesses are just waiting for the next crop of illegals who will do anything to stay alive.

When regressives talk about minimum wage it's like anything less than $15 is shilling for big business. When the topic turns to immigration on these same points, their lips start to flap.

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They are assimilated. These aren't temporary jobs, they are permanent. These people were largely recruited in the 1990's and many reside in this part of the state. This is true of meat packing plants not only in the Deep South but the Midwest- over 50% of the workforce is Latino. They have been invited and stayed. They pay taxes and raise children and spend money and have vibrant communities

And no those jobs aren't waiting for Americans any more than picking cotton is. T

And I don't think it is about immigration policy. If it was the plant would be shut down and the officers carted off to jail. It's just the government harassing people who can't buy politicians with money or votes. Theater for Trump- it won't even cost him votes which is why he did it there.

I'll just refer everyone to a previous thread on this subject:
https://bearinsider.com/forums/6/topics/88109/1#discussion

In short: I could find no solid evidence that immigrants negatively impact American workers' wages, and you should be very skeptical of anything GBear presents as a "fact" on this subject.

It's simple economics. The denial that importing supply of slave labor doesn't have have tangible impact on labor and wages is purely ideological.

And we've had millions of illegals for decades.

GBear4Life said:

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sycasey said:

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GBear4Life said:

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If their American family members don't like it, they can join them on the bus out of here. This breaking up families thing is nonsense. If you insist on being with your now-deported family members, you're free to leave with them.

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Do you think there is a moral issue when the family members are children who have never lived in any other country? How can they make an informed choice?

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No. It's not their choice to make. They are dependent on their parents, as are all children anywhere in the world. Of course it's unfortunate. I'd prefer folks who spawned children were responsible enough to not be reckless so long as other humans are dependent on them.

The waxing poetic about "oh the kids" is circular and has no end. Everything we do can be argued to be lacking in compassion. I care about the plight of homeless folks. I can only presume you and others do as well. But neither of us are giving any of them our spare bedrooms.

You're never as 'compassionate' as the next guy, and you are always more compassionate then the other guy.

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If it were an orderly process, where people could be informed of deportation and have the chance to prepare their children for either separation or departure, I think there would be less moral outrage about it. I might disagree with it on policy grounds, but it wouldn't be outrageous. It's just snatching people up and leaving kids stranded that has people angry, and rightly so.

Personally, I think that America has plenty of room to spare (like, seriously, just compare our density to that of Asian or European countries and it's not close), and the plight of low-wage American workers cannot be laid at the feet of these immigrants.

GBear4Life said:

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It's simple economics. The denial that importing supply of slave labor doesn't have have tangible impact on labor and wages is purely ideological.

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My opinion is based on scientific studies from both liberal and conservative sources. Yours seems to be based on thinly-sourced conservative opinion columns and emotional appeals.

So tell me which is ideological again?