The residential housing problem

15,748 Views | 181 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by going4roses
wifeisafurd
How long do you want to ignore this user?
concordtom said:

Wife,
Smercomish did a segmyon this issue.
Not very good, though.
And the Kesler guy from CMK sounds like a ***** with no solutions. Institutionalize people and lock up drug users?


The problem with Smercomish is he narrows in on the hard core homeless, the folks in tents. This is a matter typically of shelter, not simply housing. Which brings me to the problem I have with Kessler and other professorial types, is that the hard core homeless issue is even more nuanced than the low cost/low income housing issue. He blames liberal judges, politicians and police departments. Not moving people off the street, etc.

Sure compassionate liberal judges that don't know what they are doing can prevent police sweeps of the streets, but where are going to put all these people your honor? Just look at Orange County (which btw is not really all that liberal). They want to move the homeless next to Anaheim Stadium and the federal Judge said find them housing around the county (the Judge btw was a life long prosecutor, and at best might be called moderate, not liberal). And then the fun begins. So the County tries to house them in hotels for 30 days. Cities, particularly cities with high income residents, say not a chance in our jurisdiction and use CA laws to prevent any even temporary housing in their boundaries. So the County allows a park to be overrun in Anaheim with tents, and has a small nearby shelter for 200 beds for the most functional. Then there is this:

Thousands of pounds of human waste, close to 14,000 hypodermic needles cleaned out from Santa Ana River homeless encampments https://www.ocregister.com/2018/03/08/thousands-of-pounds-of-human-waste-close-to-14000-hypodermic-needles-cleaned-out-from-santa-ana-river-homeless-

Yup, lot of druggies and mentally ill. Then there is the general lawlessness, child prostitution and other criminal side to these encampments and people ensnared by that scene. They are unemployable. Asking a city government to address a mass of these peoples' problems is pointless, the money isn't there. Which then gets you to people sleeping in cars for safety and who mostly have jobs and find places to bath, but no longer can afford housing. Or it gets you to low income people with absurdly long commutes. Or it gets you to the working poor trying to have alternatives to tent cities. This is a very different than what Smercomish is talking about. And then you get to this:

The Governor Is Suing My Hometown https://n.pr/2KOY24D

To the extent California is willing to accommodate endless numbers of people, they will have to house them. This means more density, and yes, to those particularly in nice urban areas, sharing the space and the end of your California dream. (Read the article). This is an issue as to the very heart of where is the State going?




going4roses
How long do you want to ignore this user?
https://sfbay.ca/2019/08/24/army-officers-join-the-great-pave-effort-to-clean-fruitvale-streets/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
going4roses
How long do you want to ignore this user?
https://sfist.com/2019/08/24/massive-new-west-oakland-development-could-start/

I guess ...

Bart SF bound ... trains are packed by time they reach West Oakland...

I heard rumors of the port of Oakland will be phased out I guess this development is start of the final phase to remove the last of the Black residents from west Oakland.
bearister
How long do you want to ignore this user?
The New American Homeless

https://newrepublic.com/article/154618/new-american-homeless-housing-insecurity-richest-cities
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention

“I love Cal deeply. What are the directions to The Portal from Sproul Plaza?”
going4roses
How long do you want to ignore this user?
bearister said:

The New American Homeless

https://newrepublic.com/article/154618/new-american-homeless-housing-insecurity-richest-cities


Guess ya missed this one posted on the prior page I read that article last week/ over the weekend
In SF one has to work 201+ hours to afford a place to live....addressing this or not will make or break this nation

The snake eating it's own tail
going4roses
How long do you want to ignore this user?
calbearinamaze
How long do you want to ignore this user?
The letter went on to say that the D.C. government's focus on providing affordable housing and shelter options to encamped individuals was welcome, but misguided. Instead, NoMa BID wrote that what it considered was the core causes of homelessnessmental health and substance use disorderswere not being addressed.

https://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/news/article/21084662/the-battle-for-the-noma-underpasses
If you believe in forever
Then life is just a one-night stand
If there's a rock and roll heaven
Well you know they've got a hell of a band
concordtom
How long do you want to ignore this user?
going4roses said:

https://sfist.com/2019/08/24/massive-new-west-oakland-development-could-start/

I guess ...

Bart SF bound ... trains are packed by time they reach West Oakland...

I heard rumors of the port of Oakland will be phased out I guess this development is start of the final phase to remove the last of the Black residents from west Oakland.


Thx for sharing. I used to park near there to catch bart. Car broken into twice.
Would be good to see some improvements, if this accomplishes that.
concordtom
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Re: your lengthy and worthy post above on where California is headed:

In a world of 7 billion.
In a world with changing climate (=refugees).
In a world where the avg income is (far less than currently in CA).

We'd all be California Dreamin' if we thought things would stay the same. You could say we lived thru the golden era of California. Like Rome before it fell.


...the future seemed bleak enough, given the above 3 points. But then we have a movement like Trump come along and just destroy any optimism, hope in mankind that we might be able to overcome challenges. Nope. We are racist, self centered, and just plain STUPID!!!!

$1 trillion per year and counting.
"Best economy ever" - my ass!!
going4roses
How long do you want to ignore this user?
But nothing done about what creates/created (the history) the environment to break in to cars for a means of survival Hmm

No space for poor/ marginalized people ...

I assume by your response locking up all poor people (mostly people of color here) would be feasible?

Car break ins happen everywhere in SF ... ideas on fixing that ?

Poverty is a functional pillar of capitalism
going4roses
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Meanwhile

https://www.ktvu.com/amp/news/ktvu-local-news/housing-development-erected-in-west-oakland-in-10-days?__twitter_impression=true

Anyone have any in depth info about this project or ones like it?

How will they age?
wifeisafurd
How long do you want to ignore this user?
concordtom said:

Re: your lengthy and worthy post above on where California is headed:

In a world of 7 billion.
In a world with changing climate (=refugees).
In a world where the avg income is (far less than currently in CA).

We'd all be California Dreamin' if we thought things would stay the same. You could say we lived thru the golden era of California. Like Rome before it fell.


...the future seemed bleak enough, given the above 3 points. But then we have a movement like Trump come along and just destroy any optimism, hope in mankind that we might be able to overcome challenges. Nope. We are racist, self centered, and just plain STUPID!!!!

$1 trillion per year and counting.
"Best economy ever" - my ass!!
this may be ironic (considering Trump's view on environmental issues), but the people I know who hate immigrants the most are ............environmentalists. in any event, you sound seriously depressed. Suggest a couple beers while watching the Bears beat Davis might help your bleak world view.
concordtom
How long do you want to ignore this user?
going4roses said:

But nothing done about what creates/created (the history) the environment to break in to cars for a means of survival Hmm

No space for poor/ marginalized people ...

I assume by your response locking up all poor people (mostly people of color here) would be feasible?

Car break ins happen everywhere in SF ... ideas on fixing that ?

Poverty is a functional pillar of capitalism


Say what?
That didn't have anything to do with my post, did it?

EDIT/ADD:
Oh, you were referring to my post about 7th street Oakland. Sorry.

No, I don't know what to do to resolve the problem. Macro economics. Large middle class policies. Sharing of the economic gains so that ALL boats rise with the incoming tide, which would be opposite of Trump's tax breaks. That'd be how I would approach it.

Yes, I know break-ins happen everywhere. It even happened in my driveway in concord. I Montclair as a kid, our house was robbed 5 times.

My post had nothing to do with race, locking blacking people up. That you injected that into this confused me and bothered me.

I do not know and haven't considered the impact of the tower on any level other than change is needed for 7th street. I suppose my assumption would be that increased economic activity is good for the neighborhood, but I suppose you are countering that the net result is simply that the poor/marginalized get pushed (priced) out, displaced. I hadn't considered that, but I don't believe it's society's responsibility to keep a poor neighborhood poor. Like, the Mission in SF. I'm perplexed by the demands - some of them do make me stop and think. But I don't believe in rent control. I do believe in increased ownership so that if a property value goes up, everyone benefits. Aka: sell, profit, and move yourself - not be kicked out because you have no equity. That does nothing for renters today, I confess.
concordtom
How long do you want to ignore this user?
wifeisafurd said:

concordtom said:

Re: your lengthy and worthy post above on where California is headed:

In a world of 7 billion.
In a world with changing climate (=refugees).
In a world where the avg income is (far less than currently in CA).

We'd all be California Dreamin' if we thought things would stay the same. You could say we lived thru the golden era of California. Like Rome before it fell.


...the future seemed bleak enough, given the above 3 points. But then we have a movement like Trump come along and just destroy any optimism, hope in mankind that we might be able to overcome challenges. Nope. We are racist, self centered, and just plain STUPID!!!!

$1 trillion per year and counting.
"Best economy ever" - my ass!!
this may be ironic (considering Trump's view on environmental issues), but the people I know who hate immigrants the most are ............environmentalists. in any event, you sound seriously depressed. Suggest a couple beers while watching the Bears beat Davis might help your bleak world view.


1. Ha. You make me smile.
2. I AM seriously depressed. Trump has been a nightmare for me. I never knew I cared so much about politics. He's an utter disaster, is ruining the country, and to think that so many could follow or look the other way gives me little hope for mankind going forward.
3. Thanks for the personal concern and pick-me-up. But I won't feel better until we are rid of his plague, the disease/spell is eradicated.

going4roses
How long do you want to ignore this user?
concordtom said:

going4roses said:

But nothing done about what creates/created (the history) the environment to break in to cars for a means of survival Hmm

No space for poor/ marginalized people ...

I assume by your response locking up all poor people (mostly people of color here) would be feasible?

Car break ins happen everywhere in SF ... ideas on fixing that ?

Poverty is a functional pillar of capitalism


Say what?
That didn't have anything to do with my post, did it?

EDIT/ADD:
Oh, you were referring to my post about 7th street Oakland. Sorry.

No, I don't know what to do to resolve the problem. Macro economics. Large middle class policies. Sharing of the economic gains so that ALL boats rise with the incoming tide, which would be opposite of Trump's tax breaks. That'd be how I would approach it.

Yes, I know break-ins happen everywhere. It even happened in my driveway in concord. I Montclair as a kid, our house was robbed 5 times.

My post had nothing to do with race, locking blacking people up. That you injected that into this confused me and bothered me.

I do not know and haven't considered the impact of the tower on any level other than change is needed for 7th street. I suppose my assumption would be that increased economic activity is good for the neighborhood, but I suppose you are countering that the net result is simply that the poor/marginalized get pushed (priced) out, displaced. I hadn't considered that, but I don't believe it's society's responsibility to keep a poor neighborhood poor. Like, the Mission in SF. I'm perplexed by the demands - some of them do make me stop and think. But I don't believe in rent control. I do believe in increased ownership so that if a property value goes up, everyone benefits. Aka: sell, profit, and move yourself - not be kicked out because you have no equity. That does nothing for renters today, I confess.


I recant my assumption/attempt reading between your lines. That's on me 100% excuse the hyper sensitivity I displayed. I'm admittedly very emotional about this topic for a multitude of reasons
concordtom
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Thx but it's all good.
Hard to keep it all straight on these pages.
wifeisafurd
How long do you want to ignore this user?
concordtom said:

wifeisafurd said:

concordtom said:

Re: your lengthy and worthy post above on where California is headed:

In a world of 7 billion.
In a world with changing climate (=refugees).
In a world where the avg income is (far less than currently in CA).

We'd all be California Dreamin' if we thought things would stay the same. You could say we lived thru the golden era of California. Like Rome before it fell.


...the future seemed bleak enough, given the above 3 points. But then we have a movement like Trump come along and just destroy any optimism, hope in mankind that we might be able to overcome challenges. Nope. We are racist, self centered, and just plain STUPID!!!!

$1 trillion per year and counting.
"Best economy ever" - my ass!!
this may be ironic (considering Trump's view on environmental issues), but the people I know who hate immigrants the most are ............environmentalists. in any event, you sound seriously depressed. Suggest a couple beers while watching the Bears beat Davis might help your bleak world view.


1. Ha. You make me smile.
2. I AM seriously depressed. Trump has been a nightmare for me. I never knew I cared so much about politics. He's an utter disaster, is ruining the country, and to think that so many could follow or look the other way gives me little hope for mankind going forward.
3. Thanks for the personal concern and pick-me-up. But I won't feel better until we are rid of his plague, the disease/spell is eradicated.


My bad, watch the second half of the game and have a few beers.

As for Trump, he is a small blip of time in human existence and will pass. Hang in there.
going4roses
How long do you want to ignore this user?
https://la.curbed.com/2019/9/4/20849332/los-angeles-lawsuit-fix-the-city-toc-housing
How (are) you gonna win when you ain’t right within…
going4roses
How long do you want to ignore this user?
wifeisafurd
How long do you want to ignore this user?
going4roses said:


He might be thinking of WLA or what we call the South Bay here. The LA basin in fairly diverse, and there are many lower and middle income areas, which I'm happy to call out if anyone cares. BTW, housing prices in LA are starting to stabilize or even go down, depending on the area. Not sure about the Bay Area.
oski003
How long do you want to ignore this user?
What is super high income?
bearister
How long do you want to ignore this user?
People's Park: UC Berkeley moves ahead with project to build dorms, homeless housing

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mercurynews.com/2019/09/06/uc-berkeley-moves-ahead-with-peoples-park-development-plan/amp/


"The university plans to break ground on the complex which will include housing for 1,000 students and a building with 75 to 125 apartments for homeless people.."


*Homelessness is a tragic and serious issue that compels our consideration, sympathy and financial resources. With that said, please discuss what the content of your pep talk to your wife would be during the trip home after moving your Freshman daughter into the People's Park Dorm. And no cheating, you don't get to mention the proposal for security to separate the two communities residing at the complex.

Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention

“I love Cal deeply. What are the directions to The Portal from Sproul Plaza?”
oski003
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Is this going to affect 6forHeisman.com's tailgate?
concordtom
How long do you want to ignore this user?
wifeisafurd said:

concordtom said:

wifeisafurd said:

concordtom said:

Re: your lengthy and worthy post above on where California is headed:

In a world of 7 billion.
In a world with changing climate (=refugees).
In a world where the avg income is (far less than currently in CA).

We'd all be California Dreamin' if we thought things would stay the same. You could say we lived thru the golden era of California. Like Rome before it fell.


...the future seemed bleak enough, given the above 3 points. But then we have a movement like Trump come along and just destroy any optimism, hope in mankind that we might be able to overcome challenges. Nope. We are racist, self centered, and just plain STUPID!!!!

$1 trillion per year and counting.
"Best economy ever" - my ass!!
this may be ironic (considering Trump's view on environmental issues), but the people I know who hate immigrants the most are ............environmentalists. in any event, you sound seriously depressed. Suggest a couple beers while watching the Bears beat Davis might help your bleak world view.


1. Ha. You make me smile.
2. I AM seriously depressed. Trump has been a nightmare for me. I never knew I cared so much about politics. He's an utter disaster, is ruining the country, and to think that so many could follow or look the other way gives me little hope for mankind going forward.
3. Thanks for the personal concern and pick-me-up. But I won't feel better until we are rid of his plague, the disease/spell is eradicated.


My bad, watch the second half of the game and have a few beers.

As for Trump, he is a small blip of time in human existence and will pass. Hang in there.


Thanks.
I keep telling myself the same.
But if he gets reelected, I think I just might slit my wrists (hyperbole).
GBear4Life
How long do you want to ignore this user?
concordtom said:

wifeisafurd said:

concordtom said:

wifeisafurd said:

concordtom said:

Re: your lengthy and worthy post above on where California is headed:

In a world of 7 billion.
In a world with changing climate (=refugees).
In a world where the avg income is (far less than currently in CA).

We'd all be California Dreamin' if we thought things would stay the same. You could say we lived thru the golden era of California. Like Rome before it fell.


...the future seemed bleak enough, given the above 3 points. But then we have a movement like Trump come along and just destroy any optimism, hope in mankind that we might be able to overcome challenges. Nope. We are racist, self centered, and just plain STUPID!!!!

$1 trillion per year and counting.
"Best economy ever" - my ass!!
this may be ironic (considering Trump's view on environmental issues), but the people I know who hate immigrants the most are ............environmentalists. in any event, you sound seriously depressed. Suggest a couple beers while watching the Bears beat Davis might help your bleak world view.


1. Ha. You make me smile.
2. I AM seriously depressed. Trump has been a nightmare for me. I never knew I cared so much about politics. He's an utter disaster, is ruining the country, and to think that so many could follow or look the other way gives me little hope for mankind going forward.
3. Thanks for the personal concern and pick-me-up. But I won't feel better until we are rid of his plague, the disease/spell is eradicated.


My bad, watch the second half of the game and have a few beers.

As for Trump, he is a small blip of time in human existence and will pass. Hang in there.


Thanks.
I keep telling myself the same.
But if he gets reelected, I think I just might slit my wrists (hyperbole).
I think he's making fun of you.
wifeisafurd
How long do you want to ignore this user?
GBear4Life said:

concordtom said:

wifeisafurd said:

concordtom said:

wifeisafurd said:

concordtom said:

Re: your lengthy and worthy post above on where California is headed:

In a world of 7 billion.
In a world with changing climate (=refugees).
In a world where the avg income is (far less than currently in CA).

We'd all be California Dreamin' if we thought things would stay the same. You could say we lived thru the golden era of California. Like Rome before it fell.


...the future seemed bleak enough, given the above 3 points. But then we have a movement like Trump come along and just destroy any optimism, hope in mankind that we might be able to overcome challenges. Nope. We are racist, self centered, and just plain STUPID!!!!

$1 trillion per year and counting.
"Best economy ever" - my ass!!
this may be ironic (considering Trump's view on environmental issues), but the people I know who hate immigrants the most are ............environmentalists. in any event, you sound seriously depressed. Suggest a couple beers while watching the Bears beat Davis might help your bleak world view.


1. Ha. You make me smile.
2. I AM seriously depressed. Trump has been a nightmare for me. I never knew I cared so much about politics. He's an utter disaster, is ruining the country, and to think that so many could follow or look the other way gives me little hope for mankind going forward.
3. Thanks for the personal concern and pick-me-up. But I won't feel better until we are rid of his plague, the disease/spell is eradicated.


My bad, watch the second half of the game and have a few beers.

As for Trump, he is a small blip of time in human existence and will pass. Hang in there.


Thanks.
I keep telling myself the same.
But if he gets reelected, I think I just might slit my wrists (hyperbole).
I think he's making fun of you.
NO, - sensing some depression. Show some respect.

And in the long run, most Presidents are a blip. A few in recent times, FDR, maybe RR, change our world. My sense is that the next President after Trump, regardless of party, will handle the Presidency different, and change many policies.
concordtom
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Right.
I didn't think you were, wife.
It was merely a pot shot.

We've been watching for 3 years now Trump say so many lies and non-truths right in the face of clear evidence to the contrary. I'm beyond being shocked about it. Instead, I began to wonder how he can get away with it. And I decided that people (general population) are simply way more mailable than I imagined. People don't think for themselves. People will accept lies. Watch that film: "Experimenter", had been on Netflix, with Winona Rider, about Conformity To Authority!! It's a bunch of insightful psych experiments.

So, if one Dem congressman is seen on the news saying that's not true, while The President is seen 5x saying it is true, people will believe it is. Duh... the experiments show we are all susceptible. Depends on who you view as your authority? If you've identified as a lifelong Republican, you'll follow his BS far more easily than if you've been a Dem or an Independent, which is what I switched to perhaps 20 years ago.

At this point, I'll never vote for a Republican who in any way has supported Trump, or otherwise not spoken out against him. A person who does not immediately denounce Trump will never have my support. Failure to recognize who he is is a scarlet letter upon judgment.
concordtom
How long do you want to ignore this user?
wifeisafurd said:



And in the long run, most Presidents are a blip. A few in recent times, FDR, maybe RR, change our world. My sense is that the next President after Trump, regardless of party, will handle the Presidency different, and change many policies.


I actually think, however, Trump will be one of the most famous presidents 100 years from now because of:
-the insane things he's said. Highly quotable, from a "can you believe that actually happened " standpoint.
-how horrible a president he was. Bottom few.
-how he changed the tone in this country. Hopefully I'm wrong on this point!!

Alas, we may not even be here 100 years from now. Florida will be flooded. There will be tens if not hundreds of millions of climate refugees worldwide. What kind of conflict and change will that produce?
going4roses
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I'll say it again trump is not the real issue. This about the 49 million or so sympathizers. There isn't much difference between the KKK and KKK lite. The systematic foundational issues that this country refuses to acknowledge will be the genesis of the down fall.
concordtom
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Perhaps
But please watch the film Experimenter and let me know what you think.
going4roses
How long do you want to ignore this user?
concordtom said:

Perhaps
But please watch the film Experimenter and let me know what you think.


I will check it out
concordtom
How long do you want to ignore this user?
And to continue the journey, I'd suggest Eagleman's pbs show on The Brain (available on pbs app with Compass subscription). One of the 3 segments addresses the power of the subconscious brain, which handles so many decisions for us.

This is where your point and mine intersect.

Yours is biases learned during youth.
Mine is current propaganda.
Both bounce around in the subconscious and direct us what to do, how to behave, who to vote for.

The subconscious handles most of our decision making, though we are unaware, thinking we made a safe conscious choice.
Yeah, no.
It's actually very fascinating into who we are as biological creatures. How we manage so much.
oski003
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Only someone employing the experimenter's tactics would ask people to watch the experimenter several times in 6+ topics over the last year. :/
GBear4Life
How long do you want to ignore this user?
going4roses said:

I'll say it again trump is not the real issue. This about the 49 million or so sympathizers. There isn't much difference between the KKK and KKK lite. The systematic foundational issues that this country refuses to acknowledge will be the genesis of the down fall.
Please expound. A handful of broad and vague but bold and striking assertions here.
going4roses
How long do you want to ignore this user?
concordtom said:

And to continue the journey, I'd suggest Eagleman's pbs show on The Brain (available on pbs app with Compass subscription). One of the 3 segments addresses the power of the subconscious brain, which handles so many decisions for us.

This is where your point and mine intersect.

Yours is biases learned during youth.
Mine is current propaganda.
Both bounce around in the subconscious and direct us what to do, how to behave, who to vote for.

The subconscious handles most of our decision making, though we are unaware, thinking we made a safe conscious choice.
Yeah, no.
It's actually very fascinating into who we are as biological creatures. How we manage so much.


Now you are getting really deep
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.