Negative hearing in SCOTUS today,

Anyone have an idea as to how many Cal undergrads impacted if DACA ends?

IMO, this was the strangest policy decision in the Trump Administration. Trump came out in favor of DACA, but when Dems rejected his immigration proposal (which included the divisive wall), he then withdrew the DACA program to try and leverage the Democrats into negotiations. It didn't work. He treated a policy that impacts around 700K people directly (and more indirectly) as a business negotiations and the Dems stood on political principle, which is the more standard approach in the Beltway. This really was the first time you could see there was going to be a disconnect. And here we are now a few years later with DACA likely being blown-up. Who won?

And, wife, SERIOUSLY - that is EXACTLY why NOBODY should have ever voted for him.
He's nuts.
His thought process is nuts.
His leadership is nuts.
He is taking the GOP into NUTSVILLE, and the lemmings are going willingly.

I rue any rational person - any person who considers him/herself rational - who thought that Trump was cut out for this job because he has a lot of money.

Trump goes down in history as THE WORST President. And if the US lasted for another 243, he would still be the worst. I mean, worst out of 45 is not negative enough for him. He's the worst out of 100. He is, a 1%er, after all.

Bottom 1 percent.

wifeisafurd said:

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IMO, this was the strangest policy decision in the Trump Administration. Trump came out in favor of DACA, but when Dems rejected his immigration proposal (which included the divisive wall), he then withdrew the DACA program to try and leverage the Democrats into negotiations. It didn't work. He treated a policy that impacts around 700K people directly (and more indirectly) as a business negotiations and the Dems stood on political principle, which is the more standard approach in the Beltway. This really was the first time you could see there was going to be a disconnect.

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In other words, I agree with you.

Quote:

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And here we are now a few years later with DACA likely being blown-up. Who won?

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The DACA kids, the Dreamers, will have their day.
The Dems who want border security are going to address that in a way that is more detailed and sophisticated than a simple wall that has an enormous amount of issues with it (land rights, environmental, basic effectiveness, and cost). And they will grant citizenship to kids brought here without having any say in it, yet having this country become their home.
The Dems have had the better approach, and they will win, despite the efforts of the racist republicans who follow a mad-man.

wifeisafurd said:

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IMO, this was the strangest policy decision in the Trump Administration. Trump came out in favor of DACA, but when Dems rejected his immigration proposal (which included the divisive wall), he then withdrew the DACA program to try and leverage the Democrats into negotiations. It didn't work. He treated a policy that impacts around 700K people directly (and more indirectly) as a business negotiations and the Dems stood on political principle, which is the more standard approach in the Beltway. This really was the first time you could see there was going to be a disconnect. And here we are now a few years later with DACA likely being blown-up. Who won?

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It's more than treating it like a business negotiation, WIAF. Trump is the business equivalent of being born on third base and thinking he hit a triple. He inherited leverage. And all he knows how to do is to use leverage to get what he wants. Well, in Washington, he doesn't always have leverage.

Most businesses are in a situation where sometimes they have leverage, sometimes they don't. Competent negotiators consider the relationship AFTER the deal is struck and don't negotiate like it is a war to be won. You have to work with these people. You may one day be in a situation where the other side has leverage.

Trump seeks out parties weaker than he is to do business with and then screws them over and moves on to the next. That is not how most business is done. In the rare occasions he finds himself with less leverage, he just acts irrationally until the other side agrees to give him just enough to save face so he can call it a victory, because as long as they get what they need he isn't worth fighting with. (Like our "massive" concessions on NAFTA) In Washington, he can't choose only the weak to negotiate with, so he has no idea how to come to an agreement that requires serious compromise on all sides.

wifeisafurd said:

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IMO, this was the strangest policy decision in the Trump Administration. Trump came out in favor of DACA, but when Dems rejected his immigration proposal (which included the divisive wall), he then withdrew the DACA program to try and leverage the Democrats into negotiations. It didn't work. He treated a policy that impacts around 700K people directly (and more indirectly) as a business negotiations and the Dems stood on political principle, which is the more standard approach in the Beltway. This really was the first time you could see there was going to be a disconnect. And here we are now a few years later with DACA likely being blown-up. Who won?

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I also think to some extent he will do anything to demonstrate he is the most extreme on immigration.

Frankly, this is exactly what worries me about Elizabeth Warren. Take a position to a ridiculous extreme and then turn and point at others who are trying to enact reasonable policies and say "since you won't be as extreme as I am, you are unacceptable". It is Trump all over again with a more reasonable facade,

Trump has and has never had any interest in yielding an inch on immigration- it's his main base issue. The mistake is appropriating any more money under the phony red herring of "border security" which is nothing but Trump's barbarism. The Democrats should be cutting the budget of Homeland Security instead of this "we believe in border security and comprehensive immigration reform." There is no such thing because there is no partner, there is no problem and there is no comprehensive immigration reform.

OaktownBear said:

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Trump seeks out parties weaker than he is to do business with and then screws them over and moves on to the next. That is not how most business is done.

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Trump would never do a Win-Win.
That's a foreign word to him.

It definitely feels like Trump made it 15 minutes into a 15 week class on business negotiations and assumed they covered everything he needed to know before he got bored and left. More likely he only learned one lesson because it's the one that worked for his dad or perhaps worked on his dad by child Trump.

OaktownBear said:

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Most businesses are in a situation where sometimes they have leverage, sometimes they don't. Competent negotiators consider the relationship AFTER the deal is struck and don't negotiate like it is a war to be won. You have to work with these people. You may one day be in a situation where the other side has leverage.

Trump seeks out parties weaker than he is to do business with and then screws them over and moves on to the next. That is not how most business is done. In the rare occasions he finds himself with less leverage, he just acts irrationally until the other side agrees to give him just enough to save face so he can call it a victory, because as long as they get what they need he isn't worth fighting with. (Like our "massive" concessions on NAFTA) In Washington, he can't choose only the weak to negotiate with, so he has no idea how to come to an agreement that requires serious compromise on all sides.

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OaktownBear said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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IMO, this was the strangest policy decision in the Trump Administration. Trump came out in favor of DACA, but when Dems rejected his immigration proposal (which included the divisive wall), he then withdrew the DACA program to try and leverage the Democrats into negotiations. It didn't work. He treated a policy that impacts around 700K people directly (and more indirectly) as a business negotiations and the Dems stood on political principle, which is the more standard approach in the Beltway. This really was the first time you could see there was going to be a disconnect. And here we are now a few years later with DACA likely being blown-up. Who won?

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It's more than treating it like a business negotiation, WIAF. Trump is the business equivalent of being born on third base and thinking he hit a triple. He inherited leverage. And all he knows how to do is to use leverage to get what he wants. Well, in Washington, he doesn't always have leverage.

Most businesses are in a situation where sometimes they have leverage, sometimes they don't. Competent negotiators consider the relationship AFTER the deal is struck and don't negotiate like it is a war to be won. You have to work with these people. You may one day be in a situation where the other side has leverage.

Trump seeks out parties weaker than he is to do business with and then screws them over and moves on to the next. That is not how most business is done. In the rare occasions he finds himself with less leverage, he just acts irrationally until the other side agrees to give him just enough to save face so he can call it a victory, because as long as they get what they need he isn't worth fighting with. (Like our "massive" concessions on NAFTA) In Washington, he can't choose only the weak to negotiate with, so he has no idea how to come to an agreement that requires serious compromise on all sides.

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You will not get an argument from me.