Why not Klobuchar?

2,223 Views | 78 Replies | Last: 4 mo ago by concordtom
Big C
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Why not go with Amy Klobuchar as the best bet to beat Trump?

Full disclosure, I was early into the Elizabeth Warren camp. She is probably more to the left than I am, but she always seemed authentic... until she didn't.

The two best things about Klobuchar:

1. Hardly any negatives (so far). About the right age. Decent experience. Not too far to the left. Decent personality. Debates pretty well. Ain't no dummy. Tough enough. Doesn't seem to bring any baggage. Doesn't exactly inspire me, but also doesn't bore the crap out of me.

2. Maybe, being from Minnesota, she runs well in the states we needed last time, like Wisconsin and Michigan.

Pair her up with Corey Booker or Julian Castro. Campaign strategy: "Here's a decent candidate. Let's everybody vote in November and get rid of Trump."


What may have made my up mind was this afternoon, I asked this question to my favorite inside-the-bubble "woke" friend, who gets all her news (and views) carefully curated on her mobile device. She said Klobucar couldn't possibly beat Trump because the Bernie people would just stay home.

If they were to do that, after seeing what happened the past four years, how stupid would they be? (rhetorical question!)

So, why not Klobuchar?
dimitrig
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I like her based on her appearances on Bill Maher's show and her debate performances as well.

Problem with her is that she's not terribly inspiring. I don't think she will turn people out.

I think that Midwestern sensibility - while refreshing - will only carry her so far.

I wouldn't vote for her over Sanders or Biden if that's what my choices become. Her versus Mayor Pete? That would be a close one but I would probably go with her.
Blue Moon
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Big C said:

Why not go with Amy Klobuchar as the best bet to beat Trump?
For the record, if I was to pick a moderate Democrat to support, it would be Klobuchar. Why? Because she is the most authentic of them. I do not share her vision of politics. However, she is a straight shooter who doesn't adjust her positions to appease voters, as opposed to Bloomberg (Republican in sheep's clothing), Buttigieg (speaks in word salads, uses meaningless phrases like "Meet the Moment", no federal voting record to establish whether his platform matches his actual stances), Warren (failure to address health care question satisfactorily dealt the first of two death blows, Sanders controversy dealt the second), and Biden (no ideas other than return to the good old days which weren't so good for everybody).

That said, she is only the best bet because of your own electoral biases. The best bet to beat Trump is, as it has always been, the person who is most popular with Democrats, Independents, and Never Trumper Republicans.

Her weaknesses are:

1. Weak support from minorities.
2. Best finish is third in an extremely white state.
3. Lack of funding to generate a strong ground game in future states (Biden also suffers from lack of funding)
4. Lack of national support.

Support for points 1 and 4 from most recent Morning Consult poll, dated Feb 11 (picked because the interface for breaking down demographics is user-friendly).

https://morningconsult.com/2020-democratic-primary/

https://i.ibb.co/51cMKhk/Black-Voters.png

https://i.ibb.co/4FmjpVb/Hispanic-Voters.png

https://i.ibb.co/Jtk19Sx/Asian-Voters.png

https://i.ibb.co/Lvrxgqw/Other-Race-Voters.png

https://i.ibb.co/j5zYtHY/Conservative-Voters.png

Now, would some of those numbers increase as a result of her surprisingly strong showing in New Hampshire? Probably, though Buttigieg's support with minorities didn't move much after Iowa. But she's so far down in most of those rankings that it's hard to envision her being able to fiscally stay in the race long enough to take some of that minority support away from Biden or Warren, who are the next two candidates most likely to drop out of the race.

helltopay1
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Big C: Liz Warren authentic??????Liz Warren is a lot of things, but, authentic is not one of them. 'I ama cherokee indian, etc" . Liz Warren has been a phony grifter all her life. And, no, she is not more left than you...she pretends to be in order to curry favor with the radical left which now controls her party. Just ask Nancy who controls her party. Politics is what I do for a living ( last 45 years) and I know the grifters from thge authentic policy makers. Bernie is authentic---a crazy communist, yes, but still authentic. he';sa been a crazy commie since he was 3 years old. Liz has told more whoppers than Mike Bloomberg has money. I used to think Hillary could not tell the truth if her life depended on it, but, along came the Cherokee Indian. After all, her great-grandfather did " have high cheekbones."
Anarchistbear
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She's just the latest media and establishment iteration riding on a white horse to save us all first from Trump and more recently the death grip of "socialism." We've had the steady captain at the helm ( Biden), the progressive prosecutor( Harris), the new Bobby Kennedy ( Beto), the gay guy who speaks Norwegian, and now the straight shooting, folksy hot side dish making Amy. The narratives are getting more bizarre as Sanders does better making me believe that the DNC is more worried that Sanders will actually win the election not the nomination. Since when is finishing third in an adjoining state, having little money, a base of college educated women and soon to finish third or beyond in Nevada and SC a surge. Who will be next to save us? Who else but an oligarch from New York who gave a nominating speech for Bush Jr?

This is reminding me of 2016 and the Republicans who kept advancing bum of the month contenders-Jeb, Carly, Kasich, Little Marco, Lying Ted- anyone to stop Trump and a certain defeat.

There was nobody more electable by the establishment standards than Clinton. Nobody more unelectable than Trump.

Both parties told us that. Neither had a clue. They still don't.They are both unpopular, both untrusted and interested only in preserving their hegemony over the electoral process.
dajo9
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Klobuchar is my first choice at the moment now that Biden and Warren have collapsed. Of course, that only means she is next to collapse.
Anarchistbear
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New national poll of the Democratic primary from
@MorningConsult
, fielded entirely after New Hampshire.

Support + change vs pre-NH

Sanders: 29% (+4)
Biden: 19 (-3)
Bloomberg: 18 (+1)
Buttigieg: 11
Warren: 10 (-1)
Klobuchar: 5 (+2)


Looks like Bloomberg is the new frontrunner
B.A. Bearacus
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BearsWiin
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She's Hillary without the charisma, about as exciting as a rainy afternoon. Yes, Amy, go on MSNBC again and tell us how HARD you fought for family leave and postnatal visitation rights and whatever other tweaky fringe legislation you helped push through as examples of how you can GET THINGS DONE before haltingly telling us yet again that we're going to build a wall around the midwest and uh checks notes make Donald Trump pay for it

and try not to abuse your staff when anybody's watching
Big C
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Not a lot of BI love for the Aimstress in this thread so far, eh? Hey, I get it. I never even LOOKED at her band wagon until this month... er... actually I saw her on Bill Maher, too, and was semi-impressed, whenever that was.

Here's the thing: We HAVE TO win in November. What happens if the best candidate we can nominate is a 78 yr old socialist and Trump wins again? I think I would go crazy. This is why coaches use the prevent defense: Because what if you DIDN'T and...

BTW, I'll be 100% behind whoever gets nominated and, if it's Bernie and he wins, I'll be fine. That guy, I want to write him off, then I hear him talk. No BS from him! Too far to the left? I can live with that, for a change.
kjkbear
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Well, I bought the family Amy for America shirts from her site Wednesday. They go with our 2016 Bernie shirts and 2016 Kasich hats. Amy for me was more interesting this week.

I have tuned out Mayor Pete. I don't think he has made a substantive point in this nonimating cycle yet. Maybe experience really can't be had at 37. Bernie stays on point, which I respect, and my 20s age kids like him. Bloomberg vs Trump I just don't want to see. Two guys who do not have to respect anything or anyone getting in the gutter. Trump is there already, but Bloomberg has already shown he's ready to jump in with Trump, and to engage Trump, you have to be in the gutter.
helltopay1
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Dear BigC: You'll be fine, but America won't. Since when did you become convinced that communism was the best philosophy for America??I mean, you';ve read the Constitution, right??Tou've read the Federalist papers, right??You are familiar with all communist tyrannies in the history of mankind, right???Jesus--BigC--you aren't 21 years old and smoking weed and saying, "free Huey" anymore--There are always two memes every normal, sane voter looks for at the end of four years: peace & prosperity. Trump may tweet way too much but he clearly checks both boxes---communism???Really?????And don't be fooled by the "socialism label"---google his entire life and the conclusion is crystal clear--Bernie has been a communist since birth in New York. Dear God---is there no end to the assembly line of Berkeley lefties???Evidently not---
Eastern Oregon Bear
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helltopay1 said:

Dear BigC: You'll be fine, but America won't. Since when did you become convinced that communism was the best philosophy for America??I mean, you';ve read the Constitution, right??Tou've read the Federalist papers, right??You are familiar with all communist tyrannies in the history of mankind, right???Jesus--BigC--you aren't 21 years old and smoking weed and saying, "free Huey" anymore--There are always two memes every normal, sane voter looks for at the end of four years: peace & prosperity. Trump may tweet way too much but he clearly checks both boxes---communism???Really?????And don't be fooled by the "socialism label"---google his entire life and the conclusion is crystal clear--Bernie has been a communist since birth in New York. Dear God---is there no end to the assembly line of Berkeley lefties???Evidently not---
Just curious, where in the Constitution or the Federalist papers does it discuss communism?
blungld
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helltopay1 said:

Dear BigC: You'll be fine, but America won't. Since when did you become convinced that communism was the best philosophy for America??I mean, you';ve read the Constitution, right??Tou've read the Federalist papers, right??You are familiar with all communist tyrannies in the history of mankind, right???Jesus--BigC--you aren't 21 years old and smoking weed and saying, "free Huey" anymore--There are always two memes every normal, sane voter looks for at the end of four years: peace & prosperity. Trump may tweet way too much but he clearly checks both boxes---communism???Really?????And don't be fooled by the "socialism label"---google his entire life and the conclusion is crystal clear--Bernie has been a communist since birth in New York. Dear God---is there no end to the assembly line of Berkeley lefties???Evidently not---
Ber Insider Leftists you don't know how the law is going to be law and when the PRDent: makes law than lw is hgtew ...! Ygef have to see the DRham rport Libs in the real tryrthg of lwa jl for the fake coupe of wrath...?// So hwnebv if we talk to and you. are!Can't even make a argument tat lives in ur bubble< fke New!! so when Durham you will let me gues Mchllle! That's tight anfd then we'll see ho is@ So I kno you have Maddow is Lib bubble but the TRuth is tru!! But so what? carter Page.The fonders are!
dimitrig
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blungld said:

helltopay1 said:

Dear BigC: You'll be fine, but America won't. Since when did you become convinced that communism was the best philosophy for America??I mean, you';ve read the Constitution, right??Tou've read the Federalist papers, right??You are familiar with all communist tyrannies in the history of mankind, right???Jesus--BigC--you aren't 21 years old and smoking weed and saying, "free Huey" anymore--There are always two memes every normal, sane voter looks for at the end of four years: peace & prosperity. Trump may tweet way too much but he clearly checks both boxes---communism???Really?????And don't be fooled by the "socialism label"---google his entire life and the conclusion is crystal clear--Bernie has been a communist since birth in New York. Dear God---is there no end to the assembly line of Berkeley lefties???Evidently not---
Ber Insider Leftists you don't know how the law is going to be law and when the PRDent: makes law than lw is hgtew ...! Ygef have to see the DRham rport Libs in the real tryrthg of lwa jl for the fake coupe of wrath...?// So hwnebv if we talk to and you. are!Can't even make a argument tat lives in ur bubble< fke New!! so when Durham you will let me gues Mchllle! That's tight anfd then we'll see ho is@ So I kno you have Maddow is Lib bubble but the TRuth is tru!! But so what? carter Page.The fonders are!

I need a translator...

Professor Griff
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dajo9 said:

Klobuchar is my first choice at the moment now that Biden and Warren have collapsed. Of course, that only means she is next to collapse.
Which just goes to show that your super-enthusiastic support for how great Warren's health care plan was all smoke. Klobuchar is a M4A for those who want it advocate, which really means she's pro AFCA and trying to keep health insurance companies afloat over meaningful health care reform.

The truth of the matter is that you are an Anybody But Bernie Democratic voter and the only time you would even consider him is if he wins the Democratic nomination.
Professor Griff
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BearsWiin said:

She's Hillary without the charisma, about as exciting as a rainy afternoon. Yes, Amy, go on MSNBC again and tell us how HARD you fought for family leave and postnatal visitation rights and whatever other tweaky fringe legislation you helped push through as examples of how you can GET THINGS DONE before haltingly telling us yet again that we're going to build a wall around the midwest and uh checks notes make Donald Trump pay for it

and try not to abuse your staff when anybody's watching
You were a Buttigieg supporter. Heck, you've probably switched back to him now that you know Warren is DOA.

Good luck meeting the moment.
BearsWiin
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Professor Griff said:

BearsWiin said:

She's Hillary without the charisma, about as exciting as a rainy afternoon. Yes, Amy, go on MSNBC again and tell us how HARD you fought for family leave and postnatal visitation rights and whatever other tweaky fringe legislation you helped push through as examples of how you can GET THINGS DONE before haltingly telling us yet again that we're going to build a wall around the midwest and uh checks notes make Donald Trump pay for it

and try not to abuse your staff when anybody's watching
You were a Buttigieg supporter. Heck, you've probably switched back to him now that you know Warren is DOA.

Good luck meeting the moment.
I don't think Warren is DOA, but thanks for the pseudopsychoanalysis.

The only thing I know is that your new handle is as tiresome as your old one
Cal88
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Warren killed her candidacy with her post-debate stunt against Bernie. She had issues with being caught lying before, and that episode on top of that showed some severe lack of character and judgment.

Bernie has got the best foreign policy, he can attack Trump as a fake non-interventionist. The electorate is sick of Forever Wars and the $7 trillion running tab.

"Socialized" medicine is the way to go. It's how it's done in every other damn civilized country.

I disagree with Bernie on some other domestic policies issues but he's going to be more constrained by the House on domestic policy, whereas as CIC he will have more leeway on foreign policy.
Big C
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helltopay1 said:

Dear BigC: You'll be fine, but America won't. Since when did you become convinced that communism was the best philosophy for America??I mean, you';ve read the Constitution, right??Tou've read the Federalist papers, right??You are familiar with all communist tyrannies in the history of mankind, right???Jesus--BigC--you aren't 21 years old and smoking weed and saying, "free Huey" anymore--There are always two memes every normal, sane voter looks for at the end of four years: peace & prosperity. Trump may tweet way too much but he clearly checks both boxes---communism???Really?????And don't be fooled by the "socialism label"---google his entire life and the conclusion is crystal clear--Bernie has been a communist since birth in New York. Dear God---is there no end to the assembly line of Berkeley lefties???Evidently not---
Dear helltopay1: I'm not a communist, but I'm pretty sure Bernie wouldn't be able to get any of that commie stuff passed. What we'd be left with is a progressive using the bully pulpit to call out corporate BS, which might not be bad for four years or so. Again, Bernie isn't my guy, but I'd be fine with him in there for a term, especially compared with what's in there now. Surely you can see that Trump's "peace & prosperity" is ephemeral. What will the future be like if public education and the environment are stripped to the bone? Do you really want your grand kids' grand kids to be eating soylent green for their three squares? PS: Let me be the first to wish you a Happy Valentine's Day!
Professor Griff
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BearsWiin said:

Professor Griff said:

BearsWiin said:

She's Hillary without the charisma, about as exciting as a rainy afternoon. Yes, Amy, go on MSNBC again and tell us how HARD you fought for family leave and postnatal visitation rights and whatever other tweaky fringe legislation you helped push through as examples of how you can GET THINGS DONE before haltingly telling us yet again that we're going to build a wall around the midwest and uh checks notes make Donald Trump pay for it

and try not to abuse your staff when anybody's watching
You were a Buttigieg supporter. Heck, you've probably switched back to him now that you know Warren is DOA.

Good luck meeting the moment.
I don't think Warren is DOA, but thanks for the pseudopsychoanalysis.
No problem. It's free and I enjoy reminding you of your poor choices.
dajo9
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Professor Griff said:

BearsWiin said:

She's Hillary without the charisma, about as exciting as a rainy afternoon. Yes, Amy, go on MSNBC again and tell us how HARD you fought for family leave and postnatal visitation rights and whatever other tweaky fringe legislation you helped push through as examples of how you can GET THINGS DONE before haltingly telling us yet again that we're going to build a wall around the midwest and uh checks notes make Donald Trump pay for it

and try not to abuse your staff when anybody's watching
You were a Buttigieg supporter. Heck, you've probably switched back to him now that you know Warren is DOA.

Good luck meeting the moment.


Imagine being so insecure that after you make a comment you have to cycle through all your other accounts to "star" your own comment so you can think you trick people into thinking other people like what you have to say.
dajo9
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Professor Griff said:

dajo9 said:

Klobuchar is my first choice at the moment now that Biden and Warren have collapsed. Of course, that only means she is next to collapse.
Which just goes to show that your super-enthusiastic support for how great Warren's health care plan was all smoke. Klobuchar is a M4A for those who want it advocate, which really means she's pro AFCA and trying to keep health insurance companies afloat over meaningful health care reform.

The truth of the matter is that you are an Anybody But Bernie Democratic voter and the only time you would even consider him is if he wins the Democratic nomination.


Yes, why would I support somebody who taxes my family at such a high rate we would work less?

Sanders tax solutions are mired in the 20th century and are poorly designed and would do real harm to the economy. Warren's tax policies are designed for the modern era. There is a difference.
BearsWiin
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dajo9 said:

Professor Griff said:

BearsWiin said:

She's Hillary without the charisma, about as exciting as a rainy afternoon. Yes, Amy, go on MSNBC again and tell us how HARD you fought for family leave and postnatal visitation rights and whatever other tweaky fringe legislation you helped push through as examples of how you can GET THINGS DONE before haltingly telling us yet again that we're going to build a wall around the midwest and uh checks notes make Donald Trump pay for it

and try not to abuse your staff when anybody's watching
You were a Buttigieg supporter. Heck, you've probably switched back to him now that you know Warren is DOA.

Good luck meeting the moment.


Imagine being so insecure that after you make a comment you have to cycle through all your other accounts to "star" your own comment so you can think you trick people into thinking other people like what you have to say.
Bernie Bolsheviki, winning friends and influencing people
Professor Griff
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dajo9 said:


Sanders tax solutions are mired in the 20th century and are poorly designed and would do real harm to the economy. Warren's tax policies are designed for the modern era. There is a difference.
https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2019/02/26/698057356/if-a-wealth-tax-is-such-a-good-idea-why-did-europe-kill-theirs

"In 1990, twelve countries in Europe had a wealth tax. Today, there are only three: Norway, Spain, and Switzerland. According to reports by the OECD and others, there were some clear themes with the policy: it was expensive to administer, it was hard on people with lots of assets but little cash, it distorted saving and investment decisions, it pushed the rich and their money out of the taxing countriesand, perhaps worst of all, it didn't raise much revenue."

"But having no exemptions means the U.S. government will have to get very good at valuing art, diamonds, superyachts, and all the other fabulous things the super rich collect. Indeed, Warren's plan includes a call for "a significant increase in the IRS enforcement budget." It was the hefty cost of enforcement that played a big part in Austria killing their wealth tax back in 1993. It turns out it costs a lot to track and value rich people's stuff every year."
Big C
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BearsWiin said:

dajo9 said:

Professor Griff said:

BearsWiin said:

She's Hillary without the charisma, about as exciting as a rainy afternoon. Yes, Amy, go on MSNBC again and tell us how HARD you fought for family leave and postnatal visitation rights and whatever other tweaky fringe legislation you helped push through as examples of how you can GET THINGS DONE before haltingly telling us yet again that we're going to build a wall around the midwest and uh checks notes make Donald Trump pay for it

and try not to abuse your staff when anybody's watching
You were a Buttigieg supporter. Heck, you've probably switched back to him now that you know Warren is DOA.

Good luck meeting the moment.


Imagine being so insecure that after you make a comment you have to cycle through all your other accounts to "star" your own comment so you can think you trick people into thinking other people like what you have to say.
Bernie Bolsheviki, winning friends and influencing people

I'm thinking of renaming myself "Professor Big C", in the hopes that it may dupe a few people into thinking I know s***. Probably futile, but maybe worth a try...
dajo9
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Professor Griff said:

dajo9 said:


Sanders tax solutions are mired in the 20th century and are poorly designed and would do real harm to the economy. Warren's tax policies are designed for the modern era. There is a difference.
https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2019/02/26/698057356/if-a-wealth-tax-is-such-a-good-idea-why-did-europe-kill-theirs

"In 1990, twelve countries in Europe had a wealth tax. Today, there are only three: Norway, Spain, and Switzerland. According to reports by the OECD and others, there were some clear themes with the policy: it was expensive to administer, it was hard on people with lots of assets but little cash, it distorted saving and investment decisions, it pushed the rich and their money out of the taxing countriesand, perhaps worst of all, it didn't raise much revenue."

"But having no exemptions means the U.S. government will have to get very good at valuing art, diamonds, superyachts, and all the other fabulous things the super rich collect. Indeed, Warren's plan includes a call for "a significant increase in the IRS enforcement budget." It was the hefty cost of enforcement that played a big part in Austria killing their wealth tax back in 1993. It turns out it costs a lot to track and value rich people's stuff every year."
You make a strong argument against Bernie Sanders' 8% wealth tax but it's his high marginal income tax rates that are the real economy killer in my opinion.
Big C
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Amy Klobuchar was on Bill Maher again last night. Tried to show her humorous side, with only moderate success. Still, she seems like she has the least negatives of any of the Dem candidates, but is that such a positive?
Cal88
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Klobuchar looks a lot like Peppermint Patty, but has Lucy's personality.
hanky1
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I don't mind Klobuchar but she has the charisma of a doorknob.

She reminds me of a school teacher who probably beats her kids when they misbehave. She has that look that she would do that.

Full disclosure: I firmly believe that parents should beat their kids when they misbehave. So when I say that Klobuchar looks like she would beat her kids, I mean that as a compliment.

dajo9
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Professor Plum said:

dajo9 said:

Professor Griff said:

dajo9 said:


Sanders tax solutions are mired in the 20th century and are poorly designed and would do real harm to the economy. Warren's tax policies are designed for the modern era. There is a difference.
https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2019/02/26/698057356/if-a-wealth-tax-is-such-a-good-idea-why-did-europe-kill-theirs

"In 1990, twelve countries in Europe had a wealth tax. Today, there are only three: Norway, Spain, and Switzerland. According to reports by the OECD and others, there were some clear themes with the policy: it was expensive to administer, it was hard on people with lots of assets but little cash, it distorted saving and investment decisions, it pushed the rich and their money out of the taxing countriesand, perhaps worst of all, it didn't raise much revenue."

"But having no exemptions means the U.S. government will have to get very good at valuing art, diamonds, superyachts, and all the other fabulous things the super rich collect. Indeed, Warren's plan includes a call for "a significant increase in the IRS enforcement budget." It was the hefty cost of enforcement that played a big part in Austria killing their wealth tax back in 1993. It turns out it costs a lot to track and value rich people's stuff every year."
You make a strong argument against Bernie Sanders' 8% wealth tax but it's his high marginal income tax rates that are the real economy killer in my opinion.
I wonder how the country ever functioned economically from 1946 to 1976 when the top rate never dipped below 70%. Those were probably the worse economic times in the history of the country.


That's why I say Sanders policies are mired in the 20th century. What happens to Hollywood with a 70% marginal tax rate? Back then it was immovable industry. Now it is tech and entertainers. They'll relocate. That's why the Rolling Stones have an album titled Exile on Main Street. Because they moved away from Britain to escape excessive taxes.

The best thing America has in regards to a wealth tax is the greatest capital markets in the world. Pay to play.
GBear4Life
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Big C said:

Why not go with Amy Klobuchar as the best bet to beat Trump?

Full disclosure, I was early into the Elizabeth Warren camp. She is probably more to the left than I am, but she always seemed authentic... until she didn't.

The two best things about Klobuchar:

1. Hardly any negatives (so far). About the right age. Decent experience. Not too far to the left. Decent personality. Debates pretty well. Ain't no dummy. Tough enough. Doesn't seem to bring any baggage. Doesn't exactly inspire me, but also doesn't bore the crap out of me.

2. Maybe, being from Minnesota, she runs well in the states we needed last time, like Wisconsin and Michigan.

Pair her up with Corey Booker or Julian Castro. Campaign strategy: "Here's a decent candidate. Let's everybody vote in November and get rid of Trump."


What may have made my up mind was this afternoon, I asked this question to my favorite inside-the-bubble "woke" friend, who gets all her news (and views) carefully curated on her mobile device. She said Klobucar couldn't possibly beat Trump because the Bernie people would just stay home.

If they were to do that, after seeing what happened the past four years, how stupid would they be? (rhetorical question!)

So, why not Klobuchar?
Because she is Hilary Clinton Part 2. Guarantee yourself more of the same, and don't act perplexed when it does.
GBear4Life
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Professor Plum said:

dajo9 said:



You make a strong argument against Bernie Sanders' 8% wealth tax but it's his high marginal income tax rates that are the real economy killer in my opinion.
I wonder how the country ever functioned economically from 1946 to 1976 when the top rate never dipped below 70%. Those were probably the worse economic times in the history of the country.
interesting. I've always felt marginal tax rates aren't great indicators of what one's or org's effective tax rate is, particularly for the very rich and very poor. The govt can "tax" me 91% if I can deduct 80% and pay less as a percentage than a Walmart cashier all day long with no complaints.

https://taxfoundation.org/taxes-on-the-rich-1950s-not-high/


Big C
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GBear4Life said:

Big C said:

Why not go with Amy Klobuchar as the best bet to beat Trump?

Full disclosure, I was early into the Elizabeth Warren camp. She is probably more to the left than I am, but she always seemed authentic... until she didn't.

The two best things about Klobuchar:

1. Hardly any negatives (so far). About the right age. Decent experience. Not too far to the left. Decent personality. Debates pretty well. Ain't no dummy. Tough enough. Doesn't seem to bring any baggage. Doesn't exactly inspire me, but also doesn't bore the crap out of me.

2. Maybe, being from Minnesota, she runs well in the states we needed last time, like Wisconsin and Michigan.

Pair her up with Corey Booker or Julian Castro. Campaign strategy: "Here's a decent candidate. Let's everybody vote in November and get rid of Trump."


What may have made my up mind was this afternoon, I asked this question to my favorite inside-the-bubble "woke" friend, who gets all her news (and views) carefully curated on her mobile device. She said Klobucar couldn't possibly beat Trump because the Bernie people would just stay home.

If they were to do that, after seeing what happened the past four years, how stupid would they be? (rhetorical question!)

So, why not Klobuchar?
Because she is Hilary Clinton Part 2. Guarantee yourself more of the same, and don't act perplexed when it does.

"Hillary Clinton Part 2" in what way? Do elaborate. Female, moderate Dem, obviously. What else? Not charismatic.
Okay. What else?
bearister
How long do you want to ignore this user?
GB, bearly, who would your picks be for POTUS of currently eligible Americans?
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