Many of my conservative friends seem very confused. Not just here on BI but even yesterday at my local lake, I overheard a conservative friend talking current events and exclaiming, "none of this makes any sense". I thought about that and some of the posts I'm seeing here on BI and I started thinking a 2020 explainer is in order, for my confused conservative friends.

Here's the short version: You conservatives are screwed. Young people hate your politics and worldview. They own the future, they are active, they are diverse, and they are numerous.

Here's the longer version:

The Pandemic - At the beginning of 2020 the coronavirus began spreading around the world. A competent Federal government would have begun stockpiling testing and PPE equipment, and begun researching and implementing mitigation plans. Our Federal government did not do any of this. On March 15, 6 Americans died of coronavirus. On April 7, 1,928 Americans died of coronavirus. During that timeframe much of America's most productive states shut down (these are typically democratic blue states) cratering the economy. New Jersey and New York lost over 1 out of 1,000 residents (somebody posted to help with the math - this is 0.1%). I know 3 people with a death in the family. NYCGB knows 6. If replicated nationally, that would be about 300,000 U.S. deaths. We are currently over 100,000 deaths or 340 deaths per million. New York and New Jersey are about triple that rate - which would be the worst in the world if a country (Somebody will complain about Cuomo, but keep in mind his nursing home order was in compliance with Federal CDC guidelines). That death rate puts the United States #11 globally and #5 if you just look at countries with populations above 20 million (if numbers are to be believed which is a whole other story). Clearly we, as a nation, have failed. We have also, to this point, stopped trying so the future remains uncertain.

Many have complained that we should not have shut down the economy. This thinking is like drugs for the simple mind. Daily deaths explode from 6 to 1,928 in 3 weeks and now that we are only having about 700 daily deaths people are saying, why did we ever put ourselves through this? How many daily deaths would we have if we took no action? How many deaths are acceptable to you for economic reasons? Now that things have stabilized and are trending in the right direction with regards to the virus, states are opening up. These are reasonable actions. You have to be a fool to think when the virus was skyrocketing up we should have done nothing. And we should still be taking some social distancing actions. This thing is not over. We do not know it's future path.

Black Lives Matter - The George Floyd murder really changed things, but things that were coming eventually anyway. The initial days of protest and some rioting and looting did not surprise me. The endurance of the now peaceful protests and the support they are receiving has really surprised me. I believe conservatives are making a mistake if they look at this narrowly with charts about how many blacks have been killed by the police (look, all us old white guys know deep down justice in this country is not equitable racially). No, the George Floyd murder is a catalyst that has prompted young people (who are incredibly diverse) to express their complete rejection of the conservative worldview and policies that have dominated this country and dominated them. In particular, it is the rejection of Donald Trump and his white identity politics. They are taking the reins, with or without the assent of the government (which is not derived from the will of the people anyway due to the Electoral College and the Senate). The polls show that the public is with them.

Is it conflicting for people to support a pandemic induced lockdown and massive protests at the same time? Well, is it really the same time and is it the same people? The pandemic is moving in the right direction so most people are more comfortable going out now. The lockdown was a top down government remedy and the protests are a bottom up movement, so don't expect the two to be consistent and coordinated. Democratic mayors are letting them protest because they have to - the kids will be out there protesting anyway. If you try to use force to shut them down you will only make the movement and the protests bigger. The protests are not a Democratic governance action. This is a new generation taking the destiny of their future away from you and putting it in their hands. Are they increasing the risk of coronavirus being resurgent? Yes. If it isn't resurgent does that mean the lockdown was a mistake? No, because as deaths were exploding we did not know the future (we still do not know the future).

I hope this helps conservatives understand how screwed they are due to the incompetence of their President and the rising maturity of the younger generations that reject them, so they don't have to exclaim, "none of this makes any sense". It all makes sense. Sometimes life is not straightforward.

"You conservatives are screwed. Young people hate your politics and worldview. They own the future, they are active, they are diverse, and they are numerous."

...but kelly09 intends to go out like this:

dajo9 said:

---

Many of my conservative friends seem very confused. Not just here on BI but even yesterday at my local lake, I overheard a conservative friend talking current events and exclaiming, "none of this makes any sense". I thought about that and some of the posts I'm seeing here on BI and I started thinking a 2020 explainer is in order, for my confused conservative friends.

Here's the short version: You conservatives are screwed. Young people hate your politics and worldview. They own the future, they are active, they are diverse, and they are numerous.

Here's the longer version:

The Pandemic - At the beginning of 2020 the coronavirus began spreading around the world. A competent Federal government would have begun stockpiling testing and PPE equipment, and begun researching and implementing mitigation plans. Our Federal government did not do any of this. On March 15, 6 Americans died of coronavirus. On April 7, 1,928 Americans died of coronavirus. During that timeframe much of America's most productive states shut down (these are typically democratic blue states) cratering the economy. New Jersey and New York lost over 1 out of 1,000 residents (somebody posted to help with the math - this is 0.1%). I know 3 people with a death in the family. NYCGB knows 6. If replicated nationally, that would be about 300,000 U.S. deaths. We are currently over 100,000 deaths or 340 deaths per million. New York and New Jersey are about triple that rate - which would be the worst in the world if a country (Somebody will complain about Cuomo, but keep in mind his nursing home order was in compliance with Federal CDC guidelines). That death rate puts the United States #11 globally and #5 if you just look at countries with populations above 20 million (if numbers are to be believed which is a whole other story). Clearly we, as a nation, have failed. We have also, to this point, stopped trying so the future remains uncertain.

Many have complained that we should not have shut down the economy. This thinking is like drugs for the simple mind. Daily deaths explode from 6 to 1,928 in 3 weeks and now that we are only having about 700 daily deaths people are saying, why did we ever put ourselves through this? How many daily deaths would we have if we took no action? How many deaths are acceptable to you for economic reasons? Now that things have stabilized and are trending in the right direction with regards to the virus, states are opening up. These are reasonable actions. You have to be a fool to think when the virus was skyrocketing up we should have done nothing. And we should still be taking some social distancing actions. This thing is not over. We do not know it's future path.

Black Lives Matter - The George Floyd murder really changed things, but things that were coming eventually anyway. The initial days of protest and some rioting and looting did not surprise me. The endurance of the now peaceful protests and the support they are receiving has really surprised me. I believe conservatives are making a mistake if they look at this narrowly with charts about how many blacks have been killed by the police (look, all us old white guys know deep down justice in this country is not equitable racially). No, the George Floyd murder is a catalyst that has prompted young people (who are incredibly diverse) to express their complete rejection of the conservative worldview and policies that have dominated this country and dominated them. In particular, it is the rejection of Donald Trump and his white identity politics. They are taking the reins, with or without the assent of the government (which is not derived from the will of the people anyway due to the Electoral College and the Senate). The polls show that the public is with them.

Is it conflicting for people to support a pandemic induced lockdown and massive protests at the same time? Well, is it really the same time and is it the same people? The pandemic is moving in the right direction so most people are more comfortable going out now. The lockdown was a top down government remedy and the protests are a bottom up movement, so don't expect the two to be consistent and coordinated. Democratic mayors are letting them protest because they have to - the kids will be out there protesting anyway. If you try to use force to shut them down you will only make the movement and the protests bigger. The protests are not a Democratic governance action. This is a new generation taking the destiny of their future away from you and putting it in their hands. Are they increasing the risk of coronavirus being resurgent? Yes. If it isn't resurgent does that mean the lockdown was a mistake? No, because as deaths were exploding we did not know the future (we still do not know the future).

I hope this helps conservatives understand how screwed they are due to the incompetence of their President and the rising maturity of the younger generations that reject them, so they don't have to exclaim, "none of this makes any sense". It all makes sense. Sometimes life is not straightforward.

---

Conservatives are screwed short term. They don't have to be long term. That is up to them.

Why are they screwed short term? Plain and simple, Trump is mean. Americans are not.

Conservatives are not mean. However, a segment of Trump's supporters have reveled in being mean. Have reveled in the freedom to "not be PC" which in too many cases means being asshats. Have reveled in owning liberals. Have reveled in insensitive memes. Have reveled in pretending blatantly prejudiced states are not blatantly prejudiced. Have reveled in mocking and minimizing concerns of others. Have reveled in being mean. Americans, including conservatives, are not mean.

As huge an experience as Covid was, I don't think that is the big issue. George Floyd is because ultimately it is a giant, 9 minute long indictment of the results of being mean. In a lot of other cases, there was some POSSIBLE way to explain. The footage wasn't clear. We don't know what happened before the camera rolled. We can't quite see it. Etc. What happened to George Floyd could not be explained.

The behavior of some police are not helping their case. I think they are used to ultimately getting support from the public. They may not be on social media right now seeing what is getting posted. Too many instances of bad behavior. And you just can't find a reasonable explanation for police flipping the bird at protestors or flashing White power signs. Disrespect and mean. That isn't most police, but it is real time educating people what others go through.

Regarding the young, I don't know if they will stay liberal. But they are even less mean than average. And one huge change is that LIBERAL OR CONSERVATIVE, they really don't understand not only judging people by race, religion, gender, ethnicity, etc., they really don't understand defining them by it or making assumptions based on it. They believe in talking through their differences. They don't understand older generations continuing to fight to the political death over issues that have been irrelevant for 30 years.

Whether they are screwed long term depends on them. The bellweathers for that are guys like calbears93. He is conservative. I don' see him ever being a Democrat. But he is not mean. The issue is when do guys like him leave the Republicans and become independents. That is what happened in California. If that happens nationally they are screwed. Republican primaries will be won by meaner and meaner candidates as conservatives who lean Republican leave the nomination process. They lose guys like calbears93 in the primary process they are screwed for a long time.

Regardless of the results in 2020, 2024 is a tipping point for Republicans, in my view. If they continue to covet candidates who are like Trump, they are screwed. If they turn away from mean, even if it is very conservative, they can turn it around.

OaktownBear said:

---

dajo9 said:

---

Many of my conservative friends seem very confused. Not just here on BI but even yesterday at my local lake, I overheard a conservative friend talking current events and exclaiming, "none of this makes any sense". I thought about that and some of the posts I'm seeing here on BI and I started thinking a 2020 explainer is in order, for my confused conservative friends.

Here's the short version: You conservatives are screwed. Young people hate your politics and worldview. They own the future, they are active, they are diverse, and they are numerous.

Here's the longer version:

The Pandemic - At the beginning of 2020 the coronavirus began spreading around the world. A competent Federal government would have begun stockpiling testing and PPE equipment, and begun researching and implementing mitigation plans. Our Federal government did not do any of this. On March 15, 6 Americans died of coronavirus. On April 7, 1,928 Americans died of coronavirus. During that timeframe much of America's most productive states shut down (these are typically democratic blue states) cratering the economy. New Jersey and New York lost over 1 out of 1,000 residents (somebody posted to help with the math - this is 0.1%). I know 3 people with a death in the family. NYCGB knows 6. If replicated nationally, that would be about 300,000 U.S. deaths. We are currently over 100,000 deaths or 340 deaths per million. New York and New Jersey are about triple that rate - which would be the worst in the world if a country (Somebody will complain about Cuomo, but keep in mind his nursing home order was in compliance with Federal CDC guidelines). That death rate puts the United States #11 globally and #5 if you just look at countries with populations above 20 million (if numbers are to be believed which is a whole other story). Clearly we, as a nation, have failed. We have also, to this point, stopped trying so the future remains uncertain.

Many have complained that we should not have shut down the economy. This thinking is like drugs for the simple mind. Daily deaths explode from 6 to 1,928 in 3 weeks and now that we are only having about 700 daily deaths people are saying, why did we ever put ourselves through this? How many daily deaths would we have if we took no action? How many deaths are acceptable to you for economic reasons? Now that things have stabilized and are trending in the right direction with regards to the virus, states are opening up. These are reasonable actions. You have to be a fool to think when the virus was skyrocketing up we should have done nothing. And we should still be taking some social distancing actions. This thing is not over. We do not know it's future path.

Black Lives Matter - The George Floyd murder really changed things, but things that were coming eventually anyway. The initial days of protest and some rioting and looting did not surprise me. The endurance of the now peaceful protests and the support they are receiving has really surprised me. I believe conservatives are making a mistake if they look at this narrowly with charts about how many blacks have been killed by the police (look, all us old white guys know deep down justice in this country is not equitable racially). No, the George Floyd murder is a catalyst that has prompted young people (who are incredibly diverse) to express their complete rejection of the conservative worldview and policies that have dominated this country and dominated them. In particular, it is the rejection of Donald Trump and his white identity politics. They are taking the reins, with or without the assent of the government (which is not derived from the will of the people anyway due to the Electoral College and the Senate). The polls show that the public is with them.

Is it conflicting for people to support a pandemic induced lockdown and massive protests at the same time? Well, is it really the same time and is it the same people? The pandemic is moving in the right direction so most people are more comfortable going out now. The lockdown was a top down government remedy and the protests are a bottom up movement, so don't expect the two to be consistent and coordinated. Democratic mayors are letting them protest because they have to - the kids will be out there protesting anyway. If you try to use force to shut them down you will only make the movement and the protests bigger. The protests are not a Democratic governance action. This is a new generation taking the destiny of their future away from you and putting it in their hands. Are they increasing the risk of coronavirus being resurgent? Yes. If it isn't resurgent does that mean the lockdown was a mistake? No, because as deaths were exploding we did not know the future (we still do not know the future).

I hope this helps conservatives understand how screwed they are due to the incompetence of their President and the rising maturity of the younger generations that reject them, so they don't have to exclaim, "none of this makes any sense". It all makes sense. Sometimes life is not straightforward.

---

Conservatives are screwed short term. They don't have to be long term. That is up to them.

Why are they screwed short term? Plain and simple, Trump is mean. Americans are not.

Conservatives are not mean. However, a segment of Trump's supporters have reveled in being mean. Have reveled in the freedom to "not be PC" which in too many cases means being asshats. Have reveled in owning liberals. Have reveled in insensitive memes. Have reveled in pretending blatantly prejudiced states are not blatantly prejudiced. Have reveled in mocking and minimizing concerns of others. Have reveled in being mean. Americans, including conservatives, are not mean.

As huge an experience as Covid was, I don't think that is the big issue. George Floyd is because ultimately it is a giant, 9 minute long indictment of the results of being mean. In a lot of other cases, there was some POSSIBLE way to explain. The footage wasn't clear. We don't know what happened before the camera rolled. We can't quite see it. Etc. What happened to George Floyd could not be explained.

The behavior of some police are not helping their case. I think they are used to ultimately getting support from the public. They may not be on social media right now seeing what is getting posted. Too many instances of bad behavior. And you just can't find a reasonable explanation for police flipping the bird at protestors or flashing White power signs. Disrespect and mean. That isn't most police, but it is real time educating people what others go through.

Regarding the young, I don't know if they will stay liberal. But they are even less mean than average. And one huge change is that LIBERAL OR CONSERVATIVE, they really don't understand not only judging people by race, religion, gender, ethnicity, etc., they really don't understand defining them by it or making assumptions based on it. They believe in talking through their differences. They don't understand older generations continuing to fight to the political death over issues that have been irrelevant for 30 years.

Whether they are screwed long term depends on them. The bellweathers for that are guys like calbears93. He is conservative. I don' see him ever being a Democrat. But he is not mean. The issue is when do guys like him leave the Republicans and become independents. That is what happened in California. If that happens nationally they are screwed. Republican primaries will be won by meaner and meaner candidates as conservatives who lean Republican leave the nomination process. They lose guys like calbears93 in the primary process they are screwed for a long time.

Regardless of the results in 2020, 2024 is a tipping point for Republicans, in my view. If they continue to covet candidates who are like Trump, they are screwed. If they turn away from mean, even if it is very conservative, they can turn it around.

---

I beg to differ. Trump wouldn't be able to thrive if conservatives weren't mean.

Trump rarely if ever gets below 40% in polling. Why?

To quote Adam Sewer, "The Cruelty is the Point."

OaktownBear said:

---

dajo9 said:

---

Many of my conservative friends seem very confused. Not just here on BI but even yesterday at my local lake, I overheard a conservative friend talking current events and exclaiming, "none of this makes any sense". I thought about that and some of the posts I'm seeing here on BI and I started thinking a 2020 explainer is in order, for my confused conservative friends.

Here's the short version: You conservatives are screwed. Young people hate your politics and worldview. They own the future, they are active, they are diverse, and they are numerous.

Here's the longer version:

The Pandemic - At the beginning of 2020 the coronavirus began spreading around the world. A competent Federal government would have begun stockpiling testing and PPE equipment, and begun researching and implementing mitigation plans. Our Federal government did not do any of this. On March 15, 6 Americans died of coronavirus. On April 7, 1,928 Americans died of coronavirus. During that timeframe much of America's most productive states shut down (these are typically democratic blue states) cratering the economy. New Jersey and New York lost over 1 out of 1,000 residents (somebody posted to help with the math - this is 0.1%). I know 3 people with a death in the family. NYCGB knows 6. If replicated nationally, that would be about 300,000 U.S. deaths. We are currently over 100,000 deaths or 340 deaths per million. New York and New Jersey are about triple that rate - which would be the worst in the world if a country (Somebody will complain about Cuomo, but keep in mind his nursing home order was in compliance with Federal CDC guidelines). That death rate puts the United States #11 globally and #5 if you just look at countries with populations above 20 million (if numbers are to be believed which is a whole other story). Clearly we, as a nation, have failed. We have also, to this point, stopped trying so the future remains uncertain.

Many have complained that we should not have shut down the economy. This thinking is like drugs for the simple mind. Daily deaths explode from 6 to 1,928 in 3 weeks and now that we are only having about 700 daily deaths people are saying, why did we ever put ourselves through this? How many daily deaths would we have if we took no action? How many deaths are acceptable to you for economic reasons? Now that things have stabilized and are trending in the right direction with regards to the virus, states are opening up. These are reasonable actions. You have to be a fool to think when the virus was skyrocketing up we should have done nothing. And we should still be taking some social distancing actions. This thing is not over. We do not know it's future path.

Black Lives Matter - The George Floyd murder really changed things, but things that were coming eventually anyway. The initial days of protest and some rioting and looting did not surprise me. The endurance of the now peaceful protests and the support they are receiving has really surprised me. I believe conservatives are making a mistake if they look at this narrowly with charts about how many blacks have been killed by the police (look, all us old white guys know deep down justice in this country is not equitable racially). No, the George Floyd murder is a catalyst that has prompted young people (who are incredibly diverse) to express their complete rejection of the conservative worldview and policies that have dominated this country and dominated them. In particular, it is the rejection of Donald Trump and his white identity politics. They are taking the reins, with or without the assent of the government (which is not derived from the will of the people anyway due to the Electoral College and the Senate). The polls show that the public is with them.

Is it conflicting for people to support a pandemic induced lockdown and massive protests at the same time? Well, is it really the same time and is it the same people? The pandemic is moving in the right direction so most people are more comfortable going out now. The lockdown was a top down government remedy and the protests are a bottom up movement, so don't expect the two to be consistent and coordinated. Democratic mayors are letting them protest because they have to - the kids will be out there protesting anyway. If you try to use force to shut them down you will only make the movement and the protests bigger. The protests are not a Democratic governance action. This is a new generation taking the destiny of their future away from you and putting it in their hands. Are they increasing the risk of coronavirus being resurgent? Yes. If it isn't resurgent does that mean the lockdown was a mistake? No, because as deaths were exploding we did not know the future (we still do not know the future).

I hope this helps conservatives understand how screwed they are due to the incompetence of their President and the rising maturity of the younger generations that reject them, so they don't have to exclaim, "none of this makes any sense". It all makes sense. Sometimes life is not straightforward.

---

Conservatives are screwed short term. They don't have to be long term. That is up to them.

Why are they screwed short term? Plain and simple, Trump is mean. Americans are not.

Conservatives are not mean. However, a segment of Trump's supporters have reveled in being mean. Have reveled in the freedom to "not be PC" which in too many cases means being asshats. Have reveled in owning liberals. Have reveled in insensitive memes. Have reveled in pretending blatantly prejudiced states are not blatantly prejudiced. Have reveled in mocking and minimizing concerns of others. Have reveled in being mean. Americans, including conservatives, are not mean.

As huge an experience as Covid was, I don't think that is the big issue. George Floyd is because ultimately it is a giant, 9 minute long indictment of the results of being mean. In a lot of other cases, there was some POSSIBLE way to explain. The footage wasn't clear. We don't know what happened before the camera rolled. We can't quite see it. Etc. What happened to George Floyd could not be explained.

The behavior of some police are not helping their case. I think they are used to ultimately getting support from the public. They may not be on social media right now seeing what is getting posted. Too many instances of bad behavior. And you just can't find a reasonable explanation for police flipping the bird at protestors or flashing White power signs. Disrespect and mean. That isn't most police, but it is real time educating people what others go through.

Regarding the young, I don't know if they will stay liberal. But they are even less mean than average. And one huge change is that LIBERAL OR CONSERVATIVE, they really don't understand not only judging people by race, religion, gender, ethnicity, etc., they really don't understand defining them by it or making assumptions based on it. They believe in talking through their differences. They don't understand older generations continuing to fight to the political death over issues that have been irrelevant for 30 years.

Whether they are screwed long term depends on them. The bellweathers for that are guys like calbears93. He is conservative. I don' see him ever being a Democrat. But he is not mean. The issue is when do guys like him leave the Republicans and become independents. That is what happened in California. If that happens nationally they are screwed. Republican primaries will be won by meaner and meaner candidates as conservatives who lean Republican leave the nomination process. They lose guys like calbears93 in the primary process they are screwed for a long time.

Regardless of the results in 2020, 2024 is a tipping point for Republicans, in my view. If they continue to covet candidates who are like Trump, they are screwed. If they turn away from mean, even if it is very conservative, they can turn it around.

---

Trump is definitely mean, but he's always been that way. He was picked for The Apprentice for that reason--he was a notoriously abrasive, harsh person who would revel is saying "You're fired!". He has never been depicted as warm, charitable, empathetic, intelligent or understanding in any way, going all the way back to those Lifstyles of The Rich and Famous episodes that profiled him.

So based on the above, my next question would be: After 8 years of Obama, a much nicer guy, why did so many of his former supporters vote for Trump? Are swing state, former Obama voters also mean?

OaktownBear said:

---

Regarding the young, I don't know if they will stay liberal. But they are even less mean than average. And one huge change is that LIBERAL OR CONSERVATIVE, they really don't understand not only judging people by race, religion, gender, ethnicity, etc., they really don't understand defining them by it or making assumptions based on it. They believe in talking through their differences. They don't understand older generations continuing to fight to the political death over issues that have been irrelevant for 30 years.

---

The thing I would add to this is that whether they are liberal or conservative, younger voters are much more open to "big government" ideas than the Boomers and Gen-Xers that preceded them. That doesn't mean they all want to become Socialists, but most of them don't see why it shouldn't be on the table as an option.

Republican policies that seek to defend rugged individualism and unfettered capitalism while rejecting government solutions at every turn are completely missing the mark on what this generation wants.

dajo9 said:

---

Many of my conservative friends seem very confused. Not just here on BI but even yesterday at my local lake, I overheard a conservative friend talking current events and exclaiming, "none of this makes any sense". I thought about that and some of the posts I'm seeing here on BI and I started thinking a 2020 explainer is in order, for my confused conservative friends.

Here's the short version: You conservatives are screwed. Young people hate your politics and worldview. They own the future, they are active, they are diverse, and they are numerous.

Here's the longer version:

The Pandemic - At the beginning of 2020 the coronavirus began spreading around the world. A competent Federal government would have begun stockpiling testing and PPE equipment, and begun researching and implementing mitigation plans. Our Federal government did not do any of this. On March 15, 6 Americans died of coronavirus. On April 7, 1,928 Americans died of coronavirus. During that timeframe much of America's most productive states shut down (these are typically democratic blue states) cratering the economy. New Jersey and New York lost over 1 out of 1,000 residents (somebody posted to help with the math - this is 0.1%). I know 3 people with a death in the family. NYCGB knows 6. If replicated nationally, that would be about 300,000 U.S. deaths. We are currently over 100,000 deaths or 340 deaths per million. New York and New Jersey are about triple that rate - which would be the worst in the world if a country (Somebody will complain about Cuomo, but keep in mind his nursing home order was in compliance with Federal CDC guidelines). That death rate puts the United States #11 globally and #5 if you just look at countries with populations above 20 million (if numbers are to be believed which is a whole other story). Clearly we, as a nation, have failed. We have also, to this point, stopped trying so the future remains uncertain.

Many have complained that we should not have shut down the economy. This thinking is like drugs for the simple mind. Daily deaths explode from 6 to 1,928 in 3 weeks and now that we are only having about 700 daily deaths people are saying, why did we ever put ourselves through this? How many daily deaths would we have if we took no action? How many deaths are acceptable to you for economic reasons? Now that things have stabilized and are trending in the right direction with regards to the virus, states are opening up. These are reasonable actions. You have to be a fool to think when the virus was skyrocketing up we should have done nothing. And we should still be taking some social distancing actions. This thing is not over. We do not know it's future path.

Black Lives Matter - The George Floyd murder really changed things, but things that were coming eventually anyway. The initial days of protest and some rioting and looting did not surprise me. The endurance of the now peaceful protests and the support they are receiving has really surprised me. I believe conservatives are making a mistake if they look at this narrowly with charts about how many blacks have been killed by the police (look, all us old white guys know deep down justice in this country is not equitable racially). No, the George Floyd murder is a catalyst that has prompted young people (who are incredibly diverse) to express their complete rejection of the conservative worldview and policies that have dominated this country and dominated them. In particular, it is the rejection of Donald Trump and his white identity politics. They are taking the reins, with or without the assent of the government (which is not derived from the will of the people anyway due to the Electoral College and the Senate). The polls show that the public is with them.

Is it conflicting for people to support a pandemic induced lockdown and massive protests at the same time? Well, is it really the same time and is it the same people? The pandemic is moving in the right direction so most people are more comfortable going out now. The lockdown was a top down government remedy and the protests are a bottom up movement, so don't expect the two to be consistent and coordinated. Democratic mayors are letting them protest because they have to - the kids will be out there protesting anyway. If you try to use force to shut them down you will only make the movement and the protests bigger. The protests are not a Democratic governance action. This is a new generation taking the destiny of their future away from you and putting it in their hands. Are they increasing the risk of coronavirus being resurgent? Yes. If it isn't resurgent does that mean the lockdown was a mistake? No, because as deaths were exploding we did not know the future (we still do not know the future).

I hope this helps conservatives understand how screwed they are due to the incompetence of their President and the rising maturity of the younger generations that reject them, so they don't have to exclaim, "none of this makes any sense". It all makes sense. Sometimes life is not straightforward.

---

You might provide them with the cliff notes too!

sycasey said:

---

OaktownBear said:

---

Regarding the young, I don't know if they will stay liberal. But they are even less mean than average. And one huge change is that LIBERAL OR CONSERVATIVE, they really don't understand not only judging people by race, religion, gender, ethnicity, etc., they really don't understand defining them by it or making assumptions based on it. They believe in talking through their differences. They don't understand older generations continuing to fight to the political death over issues that have been irrelevant for 30 years.

---

The thing I would add to this is that whether they are liberal or conservative, younger voters are much more open to "big government" ideas than the Boomers and Gen-Xers that preceded them. That doesn't mean they all want to become Socialists, but most of them don't see why it shouldn't be on the table as an option.

Republican policies that seek to defend rugged individualism and unfettered capitalism while rejecting government solutions at every turn are completely missing the mark on what this generation wants.

---

When you mention "Socialist" I think it is important to define what that means. Socialism is a buzz word that can mean many different forms of government and society among the American public.

" After 8 years of Obama, a much nicer guy, why did so many of his former supporters vote for Trump?"

Most people don't read enough. I remember a meal at a restaurant in 2015 when my brother in law and my cousin (both self designated "smartest guy in the room" types) asked, in a patronizing tone, my wife and I to explain to them why they shouldn't vote for tRump. We made the case but I know GD well they both voted for tRump, although they are both squirrelly now about admitting it. My brother in law really ended up f'ing himself because Rump's trade war ended up screwing his business.

LMK5 said:

---

OaktownBear said:

---

dajo9 said:

---

Many of my conservative friends seem very confused. Not just here on BI but even yesterday at my local lake, I overheard a conservative friend talking current events and exclaiming, "none of this makes any sense". I thought about that and some of the posts I'm seeing here on BI and I started thinking a 2020 explainer is in order, for my confused conservative friends.

Here's the short version: You conservatives are screwed. Young people hate your politics and worldview. They own the future, they are active, they are diverse, and they are numerous.

Here's the longer version:

The Pandemic - At the beginning of 2020 the coronavirus began spreading around the world. A competent Federal government would have begun stockpiling testing and PPE equipment, and begun researching and implementing mitigation plans. Our Federal government did not do any of this. On March 15, 6 Americans died of coronavirus. On April 7, 1,928 Americans died of coronavirus. During that timeframe much of America's most productive states shut down (these are typically democratic blue states) cratering the economy. New Jersey and New York lost over 1 out of 1,000 residents (somebody posted to help with the math - this is 0.1%). I know 3 people with a death in the family. NYCGB knows 6. If replicated nationally, that would be about 300,000 U.S. deaths. We are currently over 100,000 deaths or 340 deaths per million. New York and New Jersey are about triple that rate - which would be the worst in the world if a country (Somebody will complain about Cuomo, but keep in mind his nursing home order was in compliance with Federal CDC guidelines). That death rate puts the United States #11 globally and #5 if you just look at countries with populations above 20 million (if numbers are to be believed which is a whole other story). Clearly we, as a nation, have failed. We have also, to this point, stopped trying so the future remains uncertain.

Many have complained that we should not have shut down the economy. This thinking is like drugs for the simple mind. Daily deaths explode from 6 to 1,928 in 3 weeks and now that we are only having about 700 daily deaths people are saying, why did we ever put ourselves through this? How many daily deaths would we have if we took no action? How many deaths are acceptable to you for economic reasons? Now that things have stabilized and are trending in the right direction with regards to the virus, states are opening up. These are reasonable actions. You have to be a fool to think when the virus was skyrocketing up we should have done nothing. And we should still be taking some social distancing actions. This thing is not over. We do not know it's future path.

Black Lives Matter - The George Floyd murder really changed things, but things that were coming eventually anyway. The initial days of protest and some rioting and looting did not surprise me. The endurance of the now peaceful protests and the support they are receiving has really surprised me. I believe conservatives are making a mistake if they look at this narrowly with charts about how many blacks have been killed by the police (look, all us old white guys know deep down justice in this country is not equitable racially). No, the George Floyd murder is a catalyst that has prompted young people (who are incredibly diverse) to express their complete rejection of the conservative worldview and policies that have dominated this country and dominated them. In particular, it is the rejection of Donald Trump and his white identity politics. They are taking the reins, with or without the assent of the government (which is not derived from the will of the people anyway due to the Electoral College and the Senate). The polls show that the public is with them.

Is it conflicting for people to support a pandemic induced lockdown and massive protests at the same time? Well, is it really the same time and is it the same people? The pandemic is moving in the right direction so most people are more comfortable going out now. The lockdown was a top down government remedy and the protests are a bottom up movement, so don't expect the two to be consistent and coordinated. Democratic mayors are letting them protest because they have to - the kids will be out there protesting anyway. If you try to use force to shut them down you will only make the movement and the protests bigger. The protests are not a Democratic governance action. This is a new generation taking the destiny of their future away from you and putting it in their hands. Are they increasing the risk of coronavirus being resurgent? Yes. If it isn't resurgent does that mean the lockdown was a mistake? No, because as deaths were exploding we did not know the future (we still do not know the future).

I hope this helps conservatives understand how screwed they are due to the incompetence of their President and the rising maturity of the younger generations that reject them, so they don't have to exclaim, "none of this makes any sense". It all makes sense. Sometimes life is not straightforward.

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Conservatives are screwed short term. They don't have to be long term. That is up to them.

Why are they screwed short term? Plain and simple, Trump is mean. Americans are not.

Conservatives are not mean. However, a segment of Trump's supporters have reveled in being mean. Have reveled in the freedom to "not be PC" which in too many cases means being asshats. Have reveled in owning liberals. Have reveled in insensitive memes. Have reveled in pretending blatantly prejudiced states are not blatantly prejudiced. Have reveled in mocking and minimizing concerns of others. Have reveled in being mean. Americans, including conservatives, are not mean.

As huge an experience as Covid was, I don't think that is the big issue. George Floyd is because ultimately it is a giant, 9 minute long indictment of the results of being mean. In a lot of other cases, there was some POSSIBLE way to explain. The footage wasn't clear. We don't know what happened before the camera rolled. We can't quite see it. Etc. What happened to George Floyd could not be explained.

The behavior of some police are not helping their case. I think they are used to ultimately getting support from the public. They may not be on social media right now seeing what is getting posted. Too many instances of bad behavior. And you just can't find a reasonable explanation for police flipping the bird at protestors or flashing White power signs. Disrespect and mean. That isn't most police, but it is real time educating people what others go through.

Regarding the young, I don't know if they will stay liberal. But they are even less mean than average. And one huge change is that LIBERAL OR CONSERVATIVE, they really don't understand not only judging people by race, religion, gender, ethnicity, etc., they really don't understand defining them by it or making assumptions based on it. They believe in talking through their differences. They don't understand older generations continuing to fight to the political death over issues that have been irrelevant for 30 years.

Whether they are screwed long term depends on them. The bellweathers for that are guys like calbears93. He is conservative. I don' see him ever being a Democrat. But he is not mean. The issue is when do guys like him leave the Republicans and become independents. That is what happened in California. If that happens nationally they are screwed. Republican primaries will be won by meaner and meaner candidates as conservatives who lean Republican leave the nomination process. They lose guys like calbears93 in the primary process they are screwed for a long time.

Regardless of the results in 2020, 2024 is a tipping point for Republicans, in my view. If they continue to covet candidates who are like Trump, they are screwed. If they turn away from mean, even if it is very conservative, they can turn it around.

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Trump is definitely mean, but he's always been that way. He was picked for The Apprentice for that reason--he was a notoriously abrasive, harsh person who would revel is saying "You're fired!". He has never been depicted as warm, charitable, empathetic, intelligent or understanding in any way, going all the way back to those Lifstyles of The Rich and Famous episodes that profiled him.

So based on the above, my next question would be: After 8 years of Obama, a much nicer guy, why did so many of his former supporters vote for Trump? Are swing state, former Obama voters also mean?

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1. Obama wasn't running. He would have won easily. (backed by polling data especially in the Obama-Trump counties)
2. Clinton was detested, personally, in key swing states. Trump won the "I hate both asshats" vote handily
3. Plenty of people were not voting for the meanness. Often they were voting in spite of the meanness. They were voting against Clinton. They were voting against the status quo. They were voting hoping he would shift from his campaign persona to running the government as a generic Republican. One thing that Trump was successful in doing was allowing people to project their desires onto him. He can't do that anymore. He is a defined enity. In the first 3 weeks of his presidency Trump went from a net positive 4.2% approval rating to a net negative 7.1% and he never recovered. My theory is that was the "Oh shyte, he meant it." group. And frankly, some of the people were mad and might have been in a mean mood but it doesn't sustain.
4. California saw the same meanness in the early to mid 90's. It didn't last - in fact created a backlash.
5. Why did so many of Obama's supporters and others abandon Republicans in 2018?
6. We can all be mean like anyone else. Americans don't sustain meanness.

LMK5 said:

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OaktownBear said:

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dajo9 said:

---

Many of my conservative friends seem very confused. Not just here on BI but even yesterday at my local lake, I overheard a conservative friend talking current events and exclaiming, "none of this makes any sense". I thought about that and some of the posts I'm seeing here on BI and I started thinking a 2020 explainer is in order, for my confused conservative friends.

Here's the short version: You conservatives are screwed. Young people hate your politics and worldview. They own the future, they are active, they are diverse, and they are numerous.

Here's the longer version:

The Pandemic - At the beginning of 2020 the coronavirus began spreading around the world. A competent Federal government would have begun stockpiling testing and PPE equipment, and begun researching and implementing mitigation plans. Our Federal government did not do any of this. On March 15, 6 Americans died of coronavirus. On April 7, 1,928 Americans died of coronavirus. During that timeframe much of America's most productive states shut down (these are typically democratic blue states) cratering the economy. New Jersey and New York lost over 1 out of 1,000 residents (somebody posted to help with the math - this is 0.1%). I know 3 people with a death in the family. NYCGB knows 6. If replicated nationally, that would be about 300,000 U.S. deaths. We are currently over 100,000 deaths or 340 deaths per million. New York and New Jersey are about triple that rate - which would be the worst in the world if a country (Somebody will complain about Cuomo, but keep in mind his nursing home order was in compliance with Federal CDC guidelines). That death rate puts the United States #11 globally and #5 if you just look at countries with populations above 20 million (if numbers are to be believed which is a whole other story). Clearly we, as a nation, have failed. We have also, to this point, stopped trying so the future remains uncertain.

Many have complained that we should not have shut down the economy. This thinking is like drugs for the simple mind. Daily deaths explode from 6 to 1,928 in 3 weeks and now that we are only having about 700 daily deaths people are saying, why did we ever put ourselves through this? How many daily deaths would we have if we took no action? How many deaths are acceptable to you for economic reasons? Now that things have stabilized and are trending in the right direction with regards to the virus, states are opening up. These are reasonable actions. You have to be a fool to think when the virus was skyrocketing up we should have done nothing. And we should still be taking some social distancing actions. This thing is not over. We do not know it's future path.

Black Lives Matter - The George Floyd murder really changed things, but things that were coming eventually anyway. The initial days of protest and some rioting and looting did not surprise me. The endurance of the now peaceful protests and the support they are receiving has really surprised me. I believe conservatives are making a mistake if they look at this narrowly with charts about how many blacks have been killed by the police (look, all us old white guys know deep down justice in this country is not equitable racially). No, the George Floyd murder is a catalyst that has prompted young people (who are incredibly diverse) to express their complete rejection of the conservative worldview and policies that have dominated this country and dominated them. In particular, it is the rejection of Donald Trump and his white identity politics. They are taking the reins, with or without the assent of the government (which is not derived from the will of the people anyway due to the Electoral College and the Senate). The polls show that the public is with them.

Is it conflicting for people to support a pandemic induced lockdown and massive protests at the same time? Well, is it really the same time and is it the same people? The pandemic is moving in the right direction so most people are more comfortable going out now. The lockdown was a top down government remedy and the protests are a bottom up movement, so don't expect the two to be consistent and coordinated. Democratic mayors are letting them protest because they have to - the kids will be out there protesting anyway. If you try to use force to shut them down you will only make the movement and the protests bigger. The protests are not a Democratic governance action. This is a new generation taking the destiny of their future away from you and putting it in their hands. Are they increasing the risk of coronavirus being resurgent? Yes. If it isn't resurgent does that mean the lockdown was a mistake? No, because as deaths were exploding we did not know the future (we still do not know the future).

I hope this helps conservatives understand how screwed they are due to the incompetence of their President and the rising maturity of the younger generations that reject them, so they don't have to exclaim, "none of this makes any sense". It all makes sense. Sometimes life is not straightforward.

---

Conservatives are screwed short term. They don't have to be long term. That is up to them.

Why are they screwed short term? Plain and simple, Trump is mean. Americans are not.

Conservatives are not mean. However, a segment of Trump's supporters have reveled in being mean. Have reveled in the freedom to "not be PC" which in too many cases means being asshats. Have reveled in owning liberals. Have reveled in insensitive memes. Have reveled in pretending blatantly prejudiced states are not blatantly prejudiced. Have reveled in mocking and minimizing concerns of others. Have reveled in being mean. Americans, including conservatives, are not mean.

As huge an experience as Covid was, I don't think that is the big issue. George Floyd is because ultimately it is a giant, 9 minute long indictment of the results of being mean. In a lot of other cases, there was some POSSIBLE way to explain. The footage wasn't clear. We don't know what happened before the camera rolled. We can't quite see it. Etc. What happened to George Floyd could not be explained.

The behavior of some police are not helping their case. I think they are used to ultimately getting support from the public. They may not be on social media right now seeing what is getting posted. Too many instances of bad behavior. And you just can't find a reasonable explanation for police flipping the bird at protestors or flashing White power signs. Disrespect and mean. That isn't most police, but it is real time educating people what others go through.

Regarding the young, I don't know if they will stay liberal. But they are even less mean than average. And one huge change is that LIBERAL OR CONSERVATIVE, they really don't understand not only judging people by race, religion, gender, ethnicity, etc., they really don't understand defining them by it or making assumptions based on it. They believe in talking through their differences. They don't understand older generations continuing to fight to the political death over issues that have been irrelevant for 30 years.

Whether they are screwed long term depends on them. The bellweathers for that are guys like calbears93. He is conservative. I don' see him ever being a Democrat. But he is not mean. The issue is when do guys like him leave the Republicans and become independents. That is what happened in California. If that happens nationally they are screwed. Republican primaries will be won by meaner and meaner candidates as conservatives who lean Republican leave the nomination process. They lose guys like calbears93 in the primary process they are screwed for a long time.

Regardless of the results in 2020, 2024 is a tipping point for Republicans, in my view. If they continue to covet candidates who are like Trump, they are screwed. If they turn away from mean, even if it is very conservative, they can turn it around.

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Trump is definitely mean, but he's always been that way. He was picked for The Apprentice for that reason--he was a notoriously abrasive, harsh person who would revel is saying "You're fired!". He has never been depicted as warm, charitable, empathetic, intelligent or understanding in any way, going all the way back to those Lifstyles of The Rich and Famous episodes that profiled him.

So based on the above, my next question would be: After 8 years of Obama, a much nicer guy, why did so many of his former supporters vote for Trump? Are swing state, former Obama voters also mean?

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I think the answer is that Obama had a better personality than Clinton, but really it doesn't matter. The American people never voted for Trump and have never supported Trump.

sycasey said:

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OaktownBear said:

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Regarding the young, I don't know if they will stay liberal. But they are even less mean than average. And one huge change is that LIBERAL OR CONSERVATIVE, they really don't understand not only judging people by race, religion, gender, ethnicity, etc., they really don't understand defining them by it or making assumptions based on it. They believe in talking through their differences. They don't understand older generations continuing to fight to the political death over issues that have been irrelevant for 30 years.

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The thing I would add to this is that whether they are liberal or conservative, younger voters are much more open to "big government" ideas than the Boomers and Gen-Xers that preceded them. That doesn't mean they all want to become Socialists, but most of them don't see why it shouldn't be on the table as an option.

Republican policies that seek to defend rugged individualism and unfettered capitalism while rejecting government solutions at every turn are completely missing the mark on what this generation wants.

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Part of that is we have been living in a shadow of all the stereotypes, all of the issues, all of the bugaboos that Boomers have lived with all their lives.

Boomers: That's socialism!
Gen-Xers: That's not socialism, but whatever. It will never get passed because Boomers will scream socialism. Don't bother proposing it. It is political suicide.
Millennials and Zoomers: Who cares if it is socialism?

I took a drive through some neighborhoods in LA yesterday. I did manage to see another Biden sign so the count is now TWO.

However, I noticed something else. A lot of people in wealthier neighborhoods had homemade signs in their windows or on their cars that said "Black Lives Matter" or something to the effect of "Remember George Floyd" or "I Can't Breathe." Here in my middle class area someone drew a giant chalk picture of George Floyd in the middle of the street.

When I drove through the predominantly Hispanic or African-American areas I didn't see any of that. It's important to note not that I saw less of it, but none. I asked my Puerto Rican friend about it and she said: "It's white guilt." Now, I don't know what is going on in Oakland or Atlanta or other areas of the country, but it seems like in LA she may very well be correct about it.

I suspect it may be because minorities aren't really surprised enough by this incident to be outraged. It is business as usual. I mean, N.W.A. wrote about police brutality in the 1980s. Rodney King was beaten in 1991. Central Park 5. Abner Louima. Michael Brown. The list goes on. Just another day at the office.

My friend doesn't think anything substantial will change as a result of this temporary outrage. She thinks it is lip service. People make a sign that says BLM, put it in their car window, and consider that they have helped bring about change when they haven't done anything - not even the protests will accomplish any lasting change - at least by themselves.

I don't expect much to come of any of this either, but if it motivates people to get rid of Trump I'm all for it.

OaktownBear said:

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sycasey said:

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OaktownBear said:

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Regarding the young, I don't know if they will stay liberal. But they are even less mean than average. And one huge change is that LIBERAL OR CONSERVATIVE, they really don't understand not only judging people by race, religion, gender, ethnicity, etc., they really don't understand defining them by it or making assumptions based on it. They believe in talking through their differences. They don't understand older generations continuing to fight to the political death over issues that have been irrelevant for 30 years.

---

The thing I would add to this is that whether they are liberal or conservative, younger voters are much more open to "big government" ideas than the Boomers and Gen-Xers that preceded them. That doesn't mean they all want to become Socialists, but most of them don't see why it shouldn't be on the table as an option.

Republican policies that seek to defend rugged individualism and unfettered capitalism while rejecting government solutions at every turn are completely missing the mark on what this generation wants.

---

Part of that is we have been living in a shadow of all the stereotypes, all of the issues, all of the bugaboos that Boomers have lived with all their lives.

Boomers: That's socialism!
Gen-Xers: That's not socialism, but whatever. It will never get passed because Boomers will scream socialism. Don't bother proposing it. It is political suicide.
Millennials and Zoomers: Who cares if it is socialism?

---

Right. You have to think of this from the perspective of someone born in 1982 or later. Most likely you have only dim memories of Reagan as President and your earliest memories of the Cold War (if you have them at all) are of the time when the Soviet Bloc started to fall. The Presidents you do remember?

Bush Sr. (maybe): Voted out after one term.
Clinton: Scandals based on his personal life caused problems for him, but generally regarded as someone who governed competently. Presided over a great economy.
Bush Jr.: Led the country into expensive/unnecessary war, botched Katrina, presided over massive economic collapse. Popularity completely cratered by the end.
Obama: Led the country out of economic collapse, remained popular despite constantly being accused of being more liberal than he was (and people freaking out over having a Black president).
Trump: Incompetent and corrupt.

So after living through all of that (two popular Democats and two terrible Republicans, plus one that was kind of blah), why would you vote Republican? Frankly, conservatives should have seen this coming many years ago. Obama won the Millennial vote by massive margins both times. Trump may have won in 2016, but his margins with Millennial voters were also terrible. And no, this isn't just a "you're more liberal when you're young" thing. Reagan and Bush held their own with younger voters. The blowout losses Republicans have been posting with Millennials are not normal and not indicative of a generation likely to ever become majority conservative (at least not by current definitions of conservatism).

How Americans see the state of race relations | Pew Research Center


https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2019/04/09/how-americans-see-the-state-of-race-relations/

OaktownBear said:

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Conservatives are screwed short term. They don't have to be long term. That is up to them.

Why are they screwed short term? Plain and simple, Trump is mean. Americans are not.

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Americans are mean. That's the lesson you've failed to learn from the last 12 years. We have a large problem in this country and it is us.

dimitrig said:

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I took a drive through some neighborhoods in LA yesterday. I did manage to see another Biden sign so the count is now TWO.

However, I noticed something else. A lot of people in wealthier neighborhoods had homemade signs in their windows or on their cars that said "Black Lives Matter" or something to the effect of "Remember George Floyd" or "I Can't Breathe." Here in my middle class area someone drew a giant chalk picture of George Floyd in the middle of the street.

When I drove through the predominantly Hispanic or African-American areas I didn't see any of that. It's important to note not that I saw less of it, but none. I asked my Puerto Rican friend about it and she said: "It's white guilt." Now, I don't know what is going on in Oakland or Atlanta or other areas of the country, but it seems like in LA she may very well be correct about it.

I suspect it may be because minorities aren't really surprised enough by this incident to be outraged. It is business as usual. I mean, N.W.A. wrote about police brutality in the 1980s. Rodney King was beaten in 1991. Central Park 5. Abner Louima. Michael Brown. The list goes on. Just another day at the office.

My friend doesn't think anything substantial will change as a result of this temporary outrage. She thinks it is lip service. People make a sign that says BLM, put it in their car window, and consider that they have helped bring about change when they haven't done anything - not even the protests will accomplish any lasting change - at least by themselves.

I don't expect much to come of any of this either, but if it motivates people to get rid of Trump I'm all for it.

---

While I'm sure that many white people post the BLM signs in their home and car windows out of support for the movement, I can't help but think that, for some, it's code for "Hey scary rioters and looters, you can move along and leave this house/vehicle intact 'cause, look, we're cool!"

Call me cynical.

Big C said:

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While I'm sure that many white people post the BLM signs in their home and car windows out of support for the movement, I can't help but think that, for some, it's code for "Hey scary rioters and looters, you can move along leave this house/vehicle intact 'cause, look, we're cool!"

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What does this say about BLM?

Though I think the people you're referring too are a tiny minority. The ones who go through the trouble of signaling their support for BLM actually believe it.

Are we actually appealing to "meanness" or are we self-deprecating as some sort of parody? Because that's really silly, and it's not a terrible deep or substantive or accurate analysis.

Republicans have had a serious problem with young voters for at least a few decades. Yet they're still a player in national elections. Whether that's because these young voters don't vote, or grow up and either continue not to vote, or vote 3rd party, or their politics change, I don't know.

Conservatives are going to see what liberals are promoting racially, culturally and they're going to vote R by default and not think twice. The aren't going to view it in terms of the competency of the past two R presidents.

While time will ultimately tell, the trends pose a significant question for the R's: how does a party continue to be viable nationally with a shrinking base and very little traction with young voters?

Big C said:

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dimitrig said:

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I took a drive through some neighborhoods in LA yesterday. I did manage to see another Biden sign so the count is now TWO.

However, I noticed something else. A lot of people in wealthier neighborhoods had homemade signs in their windows or on their cars that said "Black Lives Matter" or something to the effect of "Remember George Floyd" or "I Can't Breathe." Here in my middle class area someone drew a giant chalk picture of George Floyd in the middle of the street.

When I drove through the predominantly Hispanic or African-American areas I didn't see any of that. It's important to note not that I saw less of it, but none. I asked my Puerto Rican friend about it and she said: "It's white guilt." Now, I don't know what is going on in Oakland or Atlanta or other areas of the country, but it seems like in LA she may very well be correct about it.

I suspect it may be because minorities aren't really surprised enough by this incident to be outraged. It is business as usual. I mean, N.W.A. wrote about police brutality in the 1980s. Rodney King was beaten in 1991. Central Park 5. Abner Louima. Michael Brown. The list goes on. Just another day at the office.

My friend doesn't think anything substantial will change as a result of this temporary outrage. She thinks it is lip service. People make a sign that says BLM, put it in their car window, and consider that they have helped bring about change when they haven't done anything - not even the protests will accomplish any lasting change - at least by themselves.

I don't expect much to come of any of this either, but if it motivates people to get rid of Trump I'm all for it.

---

While I'm sure that many white people post the BLM signs in their home and car windows out of support for the movement, I can't help but think that, for some, it's code for "Hey scary rioters and looters, you can move along leave this house/vehicle intact 'cause, look, we're cool!"

Call me cynical.

---

That was my first reaction also. Not cynical-just telling it like it is.

I think many are detached from what BLM means -- I think they just think "hey, I don't like injustice towards blacks either, I support their equality" and so they signal their alignment with that concept. I don't think barrier to entry is that high. I just highly doubt insincerity is the culprit.

dimitrig said:

---

I took a drive through some neighborhoods in LA yesterday. I did manage to see another Biden sign so the count is now TWO.

However, I noticed something else. A lot of people in wealthier neighborhoods had homemade signs in their windows or on their cars that said "Black Lives Matter" or something to the effect of "Remember George Floyd" or "I Can't Breathe." Here in my middle class area someone drew a giant chalk picture of George Floyd in the middle of the street.

When I drove through the predominantly Hispanic or African-American areas I didn't see any of that. It's important to note not that I saw less of it, but none. I asked my Puerto Rican friend about it and she said: "It's white guilt." Now, I don't know what is going on in Oakland or Atlanta or other areas of the country, but it seems like in LA she may very well be correct about it.

I suspect it may be because minorities aren't really surprised enough by this incident to be outraged. It is business as usual. I mean, N.W.A. wrote about police brutality in the 1980s. Rodney King was beaten in 1991. Central Park 5. Abner Louima. Michael Brown. The list goes on. Just another day at the office.

My friend doesn't think anything substantial will change as a result of this temporary outrage. She thinks it is lip service. People make a sign that says BLM, put it in their car window, and consider that they have helped bring about change when they haven't done anything - not even the protests will accomplish any lasting change - at least by themselves.

I don't expect much to come of any of this either, but if it motivates people to get rid of Trump I'm all for it.

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The fact that white people in suburban areas are even bothering to signal their support for such a movement suggests that it definitely has crossed over and this will be a lasting thing.

GBear4Life said:

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Big C said:

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While I'm sure that many white people post the BLM signs in their home and car windows out of support for the movement, I can't help but think that, for some, it's code for "Hey scary rioters and looters, you can move along leave this house/vehicle intact 'cause, look, we're cool!"

---

What does this say about BLM?

Though I think the people you're referring too are a tiny minority. The ones who go through the trouble of signaling their support for BLM actually believe it.

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Yes, I think they probably believe it. I didn't mean to imply that they didn't believe it. The question is, why put up the sign? As I wrote, many are simply showing support. Perhaps, for some, it's what you so often refer to as "virtue signaling"?

I got that "cynical" idea in my head yesterday evening, on a walk through Oakland. Just about every restaurant or store front -- okay, these were businesses and not private homes or cars -- had some sort of "BLM" sign in the window (or on the plywood). My eyes kept seeing the BLM, but my brain kept reading it as "No need to vandalize or loot us!"

Big C said:

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dimitrig said:

---

I took a drive through some neighborhoods in LA yesterday. I did manage to see another Biden sign so the count is now TWO.

However, I noticed something else. A lot of people in wealthier neighborhoods had homemade signs in their windows or on their cars that said "Black Lives Matter" or something to the effect of "Remember George Floyd" or "I Can't Breathe." Here in my middle class area someone drew a giant chalk picture of George Floyd in the middle of the street.

When I drove through the predominantly Hispanic or African-American areas I didn't see any of that. It's important to note not that I saw less of it, but none. I asked my Puerto Rican friend about it and she said: "It's white guilt." Now, I don't know what is going on in Oakland or Atlanta or other areas of the country, but it seems like in LA she may very well be correct about it.

I suspect it may be because minorities aren't really surprised enough by this incident to be outraged. It is business as usual. I mean, N.W.A. wrote about police brutality in the 1980s. Rodney King was beaten in 1991. Central Park 5. Abner Louima. Michael Brown. The list goes on. Just another day at the office.

My friend doesn't think anything substantial will change as a result of this temporary outrage. She thinks it is lip service. People make a sign that says BLM, put it in their car window, and consider that they have helped bring about change when they haven't done anything - not even the protests will accomplish any lasting change - at least by themselves.

I don't expect much to come of any of this either, but if it motivates people to get rid of Trump I'm all for it.

---

While I'm sure that many white people post the BLM signs in their home and car windows out of support for the movement, I can't help but think that, for some, it's code for "Hey scary rioters and looters, you can move along and leave this house/vehicle intact 'cause, look, we're cool!"

Call me cynical.

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Because White neighborhoods have had such problems with looting.

The fact that the NFL, Amazon , Netflix basically most people that want to sell anything are making statements of support should tell people something.

Maybe people haven't been ready before. Or maybe they are young. Or maybe they are trying to tell their neighbors it is okay. The people questioning every White person's motivation are belittling the power of a movement to change minds and totaling missing what is going on.

Big C said:

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GBear4Life said:

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The ones who go through the trouble of signaling

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What kind of antenna? and on what broadcast channel? What's the frequency, Kenneth?
Sounds stupid right?
This is how you sound.

OaktownBear said:

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The fact that the NFL, Amazon , Netflix basically most people that want to sell anything are making statements of support should tell people something.

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Yeah it demonstrates that in today's PC identitarian if-you're-not-with-me-you're-against-me cancel culture, signaling support to these movements is a PR imperative for corporations. If you don't signal your alignment with their movement, you risk the near certainty of being accused of standing against it, or face questions about where they stand.

You think the leadership at these companies actually respect the movement and its lack of credibility (BLM has put narrative over facts time and time again)? No, their hand is forced.

OaktownBear said:

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The fact that the NFL, Amazon , Netflix basically most people that want to sell anything are making statements of support should tell people something.

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It actually doesn't tell me anything unless they make a meaningful change such as in their political donations.

I am not cynical about the motivations of individuals. I think people putting up signs really do want justice. I am just not sure they are willing to actually do very much about it.

However, I am very cynical about the motives of corporations.

I got an e-mail from Petsmart of all things which states in part:

Right now, we are working on actions including:
[ol]

$1 Million scholarship fund to support all associates of color to advance their educational aspirations.

Grants from PetSmart Charities support pets and pet parents in under-represented communities.

Enhanced development and recruiting to improve black representation at PetSmart.

[/ol]
When I read this I didn't think: "Wow, that's really great!" I thought: "You have GOT to be kidding me! Some marketing person met with some diversity and inclusion person in HR to come up with those talking points, most of which were probably in place anyway. Why am I getting an e-mail about police brutality from Petsmart?"

And the NFL - of all organizations - has no leg to stand on after the Kaepernick fiasco.

dimitrig said:

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OaktownBear said:

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The fact that the NFL, Amazon , Netflix basically most people that want to sell anything are making statements of support should tell people something.

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It actually doesn't tell me anything unless they make a meaningful change such as in their political donations.

I am not cynical about the motivations of individuals. I think people putting up signs really do want justice. I am just not sure they are willing to actually do very much about it.

However, I am very cynical about the motives of corporations.

I got an e-mail from Petsmart of all things which states in part:

Right now, we are working on actions including:
[ol]

$1 Million scholarship fund to support all associates of color to advance their educational aspirations.

Grants from PetSmart Charities support pets and pet parents in under-represented communities.

Enhanced development and recruiting to improve black representation at PetSmart.

[/ol]
When I read this I didn't think: "Wow, that's really great!" I thought: "You have GOT to be kidding me! Some marketing person met with some diversity and inclusion person in HR to come up with those talking points, most of which were probably in place anyway. Why am I getting an e-mail about police brutality from Petsmart?"

And the NFL - of all organizations - has no leg to stand on after the Kaepernick fiasco.

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The point isn't that these companies are going to do much to change things themselves, it's that these PR efforts are a strong indication of where the public mood is. Politicians will follow the public mood, as is their nature, and they can actually make meaningful changes.

I have seen one Biden sign in New Jersey. Mine. I had to give a $25 donation to get one. There are none available here for free. Battleground states have more signs for obvious reasons. I was told Covid-19 disrupted the supply chain. I'm a little skeptical of that. I don't have anything for comparison though as I have never put up a Presidential campaign sign before. It's not like I see any Trump signs though. Tons of "Thank you Healthcare Heroes" signs. They are all over New Jersey.

dajo9 said:

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Many of my conservative friends seem very confused. (So you have many conservative friends, good for you, btw they're not confused just because they don't agree with you, you're confused.) Not just here on BI but even yesterday at my local lake, I overheard a conservative friend talking current events and exclaiming, "none of this makes any sense". I thought about that and some of the posts I'm seeing here on BI and I started thinking a 2020 explainer is in order, for my confused conservative friends. (please tell your conservative friends why you're confused and why you disagree)

Here's the short version: You conservatives are screwed. (I heard this before, Democrats lost the election and lost on the impeachment, You guys got screwed.) Young people hate your politics and worldview. (Young people liked Bernie's politics but the mainstream media and DNC screwed him over) They own the future, they are active, they are diverse, and they are numerous. (The 1st amendment isn't popular with college kids anymore, if the majority believes this, we're all screwed.)

Here's the longer version (But your shorter version didn't make any sense):

The Pandemic - At the beginning of 2020 the coronavirus began spreading around the world. A competent Federal government would have begun stockpiling testing and PPE equipment, and begun researching and implementing mitigation plans. Our Federal government did not do any of this. On March 15, 6 Americans died of coronavirus. On April 7, 1,928 Americans died of coronavirus. During that timeframe much of America's most productive states shut down (these are typically democratic blue states) cratering the economy. New Jersey and New York lost over 1 out of 1,000 residents (somebody posted to help with the math - this is 0.1%). I know 3 people with a death in the family. NYCGB knows 6. If replicated nationally, that would be about 300,000 U.S. deaths. We are currently over 100,000 deaths or 340 deaths per million. New York and New Jersey are about triple that rate - which would be the worst in the world if a country (Somebody will complain about Cuomo, but keep in mind his nursing home order was in compliance with Federal CDC guidelines). That death rate puts the United States #11 globally and #5 if you just look at countries with populations above 20 million (if numbers are to be believed which is a whole other story). Clearly we, as a nation, have failed. We have also, to this point, stopped trying so the future remains uncertain.

Many have complained that we should not have shut down the economy. This thinking is like drugs for the simple mind. Daily deaths explode from 6 to 1,928 in 3 weeks and now that we are only having about 700 daily deaths people are saying, why did we ever put ourselves through this? How many daily deaths would we have if we took no action? How many deaths are acceptable to you for economic reasons? Now that things have stabilized and are trending in the right direction with regards to the virus, states are opening up. These are reasonable actions. You have to be a fool to think when the virus was skyrocketing up we should have done nothing. And we should still be taking some social distancing actions. This thing is not over. We do not know it's future path.

Black Lives Matter - The George Floyd murder really changed things, but things that were coming eventually anyway. The initial days of protest and some rioting and looting did not surprise me. The endurance of the now peaceful protests and the support they are receiving has really surprised me. I believe conservatives are making a mistake if they look at this narrowly with charts about how many blacks have been killed by the police (look, all us old white guys know deep down justice in this country is not equitable racially). No, the George Floyd murder is a catalyst that has prompted young people (who are incredibly diverse) to express their complete rejection of the conservative worldview and policies that have dominated this country and dominated them. In particular, it is the rejection of Donald Trump and his white identity politics. They are taking the reins, with or without the assent of the government (which is not derived from the will of the people anyway due to the Electoral College and the Senate). The polls show that the public is with them.

Is it conflicting for people to support a pandemic induced lockdown and massive protests at the same time? Well, is it really the same time and is it the same people? The pandemic is moving in the right direction so most people are more comfortable going out now. The lockdown was a top down government remedy and the protests are a bottom up movement, so don't expect the two to be consistent and coordinated. Democratic mayors are letting them protest because they have to - the kids will be out there protesting anyway. If you try to use force to shut them down you will only make the movement and the protests bigger. The protests are not a Democratic governance action. This is a new generation taking the destiny of their future away from you and putting it in their hands. Are they increasing the risk of coronavirus being resurgent? Yes. If it isn't resurgent does that mean the lockdown was a mistake? No, because as deaths were exploding we did not know the future (we still do not know the future).

I hope this helps conservatives understand how screwed they are due to the incompetence of their President and the rising maturity of the younger generations that reject them, so they don't have to exclaim, "none of this makes any sense". It all makes sense. Sometimes life is not straightforward.

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Identity politics is you guys, including the white variety. Do you think this country and its institutions are systematically racist?

sycasey said:

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dimitrig said:

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OaktownBear said:

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The fact that the NFL, Amazon , Netflix basically most people that want to sell anything are making statements of support should tell people something.

---

---

The point isn't that these companies are going to do much to change things themselves, it's that these PR efforts are a strong indication of where the public mood is. Politicians will follow the public mood, as is their nature, and they can actually make meaningful changes.

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The public has a short memory, which is MY point.

Everyone was up in arms when the Rodney King verdict was read and...?! It keeps happening. I don't see any indication anything is different this time.

dimitrig said:

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sycasey said:

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dimitrig said:

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OaktownBear said:

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The fact that the NFL, Amazon , Netflix basically most people that want to sell anything are making statements of support should tell people something.

---

---

The point isn't that these companies are going to do much to change things themselves, it's that these PR efforts are a strong indication of where the public mood is. Politicians will follow the public mood, as is their nature, and they can actually make meaningful changes.

---

The public has a short memory, which is MY point.

Everyone was up in arms when the Rodney King verdict was read and...?! It keeps happening. I don't see any indication anything is different this time.

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"Everyone" was not, not in the way they are now. The black community was. White people remained largely in favor of the police. It's not like that this time.

Do you remember the NFL taking a stand on Rodney King?

sycasey said:

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dimitrig said:

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sycasey said:

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dimitrig said:

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OaktownBear said:

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The fact that the NFL, Amazon , Netflix basically most people that want to sell anything are making statements of support should tell people something.

---

---

The point isn't that these companies are going to do much to change things themselves, it's that these PR efforts are a strong indication of where the public mood is. Politicians will follow the public mood, as is their nature, and they can actually make meaningful changes.

---

The public has a short memory, which is MY point.

Everyone was up in arms when the Rodney King verdict was read and...?! It keeps happening. I don't see any indication anything is different this time.

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"Everyone" was not, not in the way they are now. The black community was. White people remained largely in favor of the police. It's not like that this time.

Do you remember the NFL taking a stand on Rodney King?

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I got another e-mail from Instacart saying they are investing $1M in change.

Why do Petsmart or Instacart need to make statements at all?! I certainly don't expect them to and the fact that they are feels like pandering.

BLM is the movement du jour following Occupy Wall Street, #metoo, etc, etc. I am sure there will be a new one soon.

dimitrig, I don't know exactly why you got an email about police brutality from PetSmart, but maybe it had something to do with the "vicious dogs" that the President threatened to unleash.