okaydo said:

---

---

Hmmm....sounds likely. It's on the internet so it must be true.

calbear93 said:

---

okaydo said:

---

---

Hmmm....sounds likely. It's on the internet so it must be true.

---

If a reputable news organization is reporting on it and Oregon's governor and two U.S. senators are tweeting about it, it must be fake news.

This is all bad on all accounts.

okaydo said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

okaydo said:

---

---

Hmmm....sounds likely. It's on the internet so it must be true.

---

If a reputable news organization is reporting on it and Oregon's governor and two U.S. senators are tweeting about it, it must be fake news.

---

Let me get this straight. CNN, WSJ, and NYT have no mention of this despite the fact this would be an earth shattering event for some secret, camouflaged federal military to patrol and arrest people that would otherwise be the exclusive jurisdiction of the state and city? And no identification of the "secret police" but someone who looks staged being taken into a normal looking civilian minivan does not give you pause but instead makes you think that this is real because you saw it in Twitter? And you think I am being overly skeptical? OK.

calbear93 said:

---

okaydo said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

okaydo said:

---

---

Hmmm....sounds likely. It's on the internet so it must be true.

---

If a reputable news organization is reporting on it and Oregon's governor and two U.S. senators are tweeting about it, it must be fake news.

---

Let me get this straight. CNN, WSJ, and NYT have no mention of this despite the fact this would be an earth shattering event for some secret, camouflaged federal military to patrol and arrest people that would otherwise be the exclusive jurisdiction of the state and city? And no identification of the "secret police" but someone who looks staged being taken into a normal looking civilian minivan does not give you pause but instead makes you think that this is real because you saw it in Twitter? And you think I am being overly skeptical? OK.

---

Well, it was first reported pretty late East Coast time and none of those papers have bureaus in Oregon. So they're just catching up this morning:

okaydo said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

okaydo said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

okaydo said:

---

---

Hmmm....sounds likely. It's on the internet so it must be true.

---

If a reputable news organization is reporting on it and Oregon's governor and two U.S. senators are tweeting about it, it must be fake news.

---

Let me get this straight. CNN, WSJ, and NYT have no mention of this despite the fact this would be an earth shattering event for some secret, camouflaged federal military to patrol and arrest people that would otherwise be the exclusive jurisdiction of the state and city? And no identification of the "secret police" but someone who looks staged being taken into a normal looking civilian minivan does not give you pause but instead makes you think that this is real because you saw it in Twitter? And you think I am being overly skeptical? OK.

---

Well, it was first reported pretty late East Coast time and none of those papers have bureaus in Oregon. So they're just catching up this morning:

---

OK, so it's not early morning anymore, and still no mention by CNN, NYT or WSJ? Because, let's be honest, if Trump and Barr were sending military to arrest people in unmarked cars and without identifying themselves for a non federal crime, then it should be game over and no self respecting conservative who believes in state rights should tolerate this. But I am extremely suspicious that there are military uninvited by the governor arresting people and putting them in unmarked minivans.

Local reporting-

https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2020/07/protests-mark-day-50-in-portland-thursday-amid-growing-attention-from-trump-administration.html

Order will be restored despite a pathetic governor and weak police unwilling to do what's needed.

Anarchistbear said:

---

Local reporting-

https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2020/07/protests-mark-day-50-in-portland-thursday-amid-growing-attention-from-trump-administration.html

---

OK, let's be clear on what the local press is reporting. If there were action taken by the federal forces, it was only in the limited context of protecting federal building. It does not seem to have extended beyond that, but I guess we will still find out. If it was limited to protecting federal building and they did not intrude on state and city law enforcement, then I think the tweets were highly misleading.

calbear93 said:

---

okaydo said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

okaydo said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

okaydo said:

---

---

Hmmm....sounds likely. It's on the internet so it must be true.

---

If a reputable news organization is reporting on it and Oregon's governor and two U.S. senators are tweeting about it, it must be fake news.

---

Let me get this straight. CNN, WSJ, and NYT have no mention of this despite the fact this would be an earth shattering event for some secret, camouflaged federal military to patrol and arrest people that would otherwise be the exclusive jurisdiction of the state and city? And no identification of the "secret police" but someone who looks staged being taken into a normal looking civilian minivan does not give you pause but instead makes you think that this is real because you saw it in Twitter? And you think I am being overly skeptical? OK.

---

Well, it was first reported pretty late East Coast time and none of those papers have bureaus in Oregon. So they're just catching up this morning:

---

OK, so it's not early morning anymore, and still no mention by CNN, NYT or WSJ? Because, let's be honest, if Trump and Barr were sending military to arrest people in unmarked cars and without identifying themselves for a non federal crime, then it should be game over and no self respecting conservative who believes in state rights should tolerate this. But I am extremely suspicious that there are military uninvited by the governor arresting people and putting them in unmarked minivans.

---

Some news organizations take time to report stuff far away. The New York Times can be great, but they also can be inept -- they were so blindsided by AOC that their first story devoted to her was after she won the Democratic primary.

Also, this is a Wolf operation.

Also. Lol. Conservatives only believe in states rights when the president is a Democrat. Also, don't be surprised if the right-wing anti-government encroachment militias keep mum.

okaydo said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

okaydo said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

okaydo said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

okaydo said:

---

---

Hmmm....sounds likely. It's on the internet so it must be true.

---

If a reputable news organization is reporting on it and Oregon's governor and two U.S. senators are tweeting about it, it must be fake news.

---

Let me get this straight. CNN, WSJ, and NYT have no mention of this despite the fact this would be an earth shattering event for some secret, camouflaged federal military to patrol and arrest people that would otherwise be the exclusive jurisdiction of the state and city? And no identification of the "secret police" but someone who looks staged being taken into a normal looking civilian minivan does not give you pause but instead makes you think that this is real because you saw it in Twitter? And you think I am being overly skeptical? OK.

---

Well, it was first reported pretty late East Coast time and none of those papers have bureaus in Oregon. So they're just catching up this morning:

---

OK, so it's not early morning anymore, and still no mention by CNN, NYT or WSJ? Because, let's be honest, if Trump and Barr were sending military to arrest people in unmarked cars and without identifying themselves for a non federal crime, then it should be game over and no self respecting conservative who believes in state rights should tolerate this. But I am extremely suspicious that there are military uninvited by the governor arresting people and putting them in unmarked minivans.

---

Some news organizations take time to report stuff far away. The New York Times can be great, but they also can be inept -- they were so blindsided by AOC that their first story devoted to her was after she won the Democratic primary.

Also, this is a Wolf operation.

Also. Lol. Conservatives only believe in states rights when the president is a Democrat. Also, don't be surprised if the right-wing anti-government encroachment militias keep mum.

---

I don't disagree that, if what they are doing is going beyond protecting the federal building and encroaching on state rights, then conservatives should absolutely be outraged. I know I would be. And, quite frankly, they should just stay in the damn building or right outside and not intrude beyond the limited space. Cannot get rid of Trump and Barr quickly enough. If this is true, then Republicans who do not speak up should be ashamed and never again talk about a smaller federal government. Still hard to believe.

okaydo said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

okaydo said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

okaydo said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

okaydo said:

---

---

Hmmm....sounds likely. It's on the internet so it must be true.

---

If a reputable news organization is reporting on it and Oregon's governor and two U.S. senators are tweeting about it, it must be fake news.

---

Let me get this straight. CNN, WSJ, and NYT have no mention of this despite the fact this would be an earth shattering event for some secret, camouflaged federal military to patrol and arrest people that would otherwise be the exclusive jurisdiction of the state and city? And no identification of the "secret police" but someone who looks staged being taken into a normal looking civilian minivan does not give you pause but instead makes you think that this is real because you saw it in Twitter? And you think I am being overly skeptical? OK.

---

Well, it was first reported pretty late East Coast time and none of those papers have bureaus in Oregon. So they're just catching up this morning:

---

OK, so it's not early morning anymore, and still no mention by CNN, NYT or WSJ? Because, let's be honest, if Trump and Barr were sending military to arrest people in unmarked cars and without identifying themselves for a non federal crime, then it should be game over and no self respecting conservative who believes in state rights should tolerate this. But I am extremely suspicious that there are military uninvited by the governor arresting people and putting them in unmarked minivans.

---

Some news organizations take time to report stuff far away. The New York Times can be great, but they also can be inept -- they were so blindsided by AOC that their first story devoted to her was after she won the Democratic primary.

Also, this is a Wolf operation.

Also. Lol. Conservatives only believe in states rights when the president is a Democrat. Also, don't be surprised if the right-wing anti-government encroachment militias keep mum.

---

Hey, isn't this the kind of stuff that 2nd Amendment advocates say is the reason behind the right to bear arms? Maybe the Portland protesters should lock and load and protect themselves. I'm SURE the NRA and other gun fetishists will line up to support them in this effort to exercise their rights. /s

are gung-ho LEA taught to aim at our heads or not (w/wink and a nod)
nyt > shot one protester in the head with an apparent impact munition
wikiwiki snippet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bean_bag_round

> A bean bag round, also known by its trademarked name flexible baton round, is a type of baton round, fired from a shotgun, and used for less lethal apprehension of suspects
> The bean bag round consists of a small fabric "pillow" filled with #9 lead shot weighing about 40 grams (1.4 oz). It is fired from a normal 12-gauge shotgun. When fired, the bag is expelled at around 70 to 90 metres per second (230 to 300 ft/s); it spreads out in flight and distributes its impact over about 6 square centimetres (1 sq in) of the target. It is designed to deliver a blow that will cause minimum long-term trauma and no penetration but will result in a muscle spasm or other reaction to briefly render a violent suspect immobile. It still can cause serious injury and death. The shotgun round is inaccurate over about 6 metres (20 ft) and has a maximum range of around 20 metres (70 ft). Changes to the bean bag round since its inception in the early 1970s have included a velocity reduction from 120 to 90 meters per second (400 to 300 ft/s) as well as a shift from a square shape to a more rounded sock-shaped projectile.
> Bean bag rounds are used when a person is a danger to themselves or others but is not a direct threat.. The round is intended to disable the person without killing them.
> A bean bag round can severely injure or kill in a wide variety of ways. They have caused around one death a year since their introduction in the US. A round can hit the chest, break the ribs and send the broken ribs into the heart. A shot to the head can break the nose, crush the larynx or break the neck or skull of the subject.
This is why many officers are taught to aim for the extremities when using a bean bag round. A strike in the abdominal area can cause internal bleeding or strike the solar plexus which can disrupt breathing or heartbeat, but such a hit is generally safer than most other areas as well as presenting a larger target than an extremity. Fatalities are occasionally the result of mistaking other shotgun rounds for bean bags.

• In 2006, during anti-corruption protests in Budapest (Hungary) some people were hit on the head. At least 3 of them were blinded. One man committed suicide in 2013 because he could not live with the blindness. In addition, many people suffered minor injuries (nose and finger fractures, hemorrhagic bruises), a few patient needed permanent psychological help because of the shock.
• In 2013, in Park Forest, Illinois, an autopsy showed that a 95-year-old man had died from hemoperitoneum as a result of being shot by police with a bean bag gun.
• 11 August 2019, during the Hong Kong anti-extradition bill protests, a female First Aider was suspected to have been hit with a bean bag round, resulting in rupture of one of her eyeballs.
• In 23 November 2019, a bean bag round fired by the Colombian riot police hit student Dilan Cruz in the head, killing him.
• 31 May 2020, 20-year-old Justin Howell was shot in the head by the Austin PD, suffering a skull fracture leading to seizure and brain trauma. The next day, 1 June 2020, 16-year-old Brad Levi Ayala also suffered a skull fracture after being shot in the head with a beanbag round by the Austin PD.

Dry run?

This is definitely a story to keep an eye on and to investigate. Some of the claims I am skeptical of, but something is definitely going on, and we need more information.

From what I've gathered, the federal government has sent in ICE and border officials (which confuses me jurisdictionally) to initially protect a federal courthouse in the area which was vandalized. Both the city and state do not want this federal presence and have asked them to leave, Chad Wolf (the DHS head) has refused saying he will restore law and order to Portland. These are the facts that I have gathered and if I've gotten anything wrong, please correct me.

My opinion is that I do not have an issue with federal officials preserving federal property. But that job is extremely limited in scope and needs to remain so. If the DHS tries to use federal officials to 'restore order' to Portland beyond the confines of the courthouse and against the wishes of the mayor and governor this turns into a federally backed coup of local government which is completely and totally unacceptable.

Turning to speculation, I cant help but wonder if Trump is seeing the coronavirus dominating the news and everyday life and the associated declining polling numbers and is trying to make a highly conspicuous move to draw on people's fear and turn the election into a question of sharp enforcement of law and order complete with the left-wing mob boogeyman coming to destroy America, rather than a referendum on his coronavirus handling. In either case, I dont see how it helps him gain the swing states as it would further motivate the opposing base against him, and I think most of country dont trust him to tell the truth. It also plays into the narrative that he is an authoritarian (or at least wants to be). I know that gets thrown around a lot in politics, but it applies in a move like this.

AunBear89 said:

---

okaydo said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

okaydo said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

okaydo said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

okaydo said:

---

---

Hmmm....sounds likely. It's on the internet so it must be true.

---

If a reputable news organization is reporting on it and Oregon's governor and two U.S. senators are tweeting about it, it must be fake news.

---

Let me get this straight. CNN, WSJ, and NYT have no mention of this despite the fact this would be an earth shattering event for some secret, camouflaged federal military to patrol and arrest people that would otherwise be the exclusive jurisdiction of the state and city? And no identification of the "secret police" but someone who looks staged being taken into a normal looking civilian minivan does not give you pause but instead makes you think that this is real because you saw it in Twitter? And you think I am being overly skeptical? OK.

---

Well, it was first reported pretty late East Coast time and none of those papers have bureaus in Oregon. So they're just catching up this morning:

---

OK, so it's not early morning anymore, and still no mention by CNN, NYT or WSJ? Because, let's be honest, if Trump and Barr were sending military to arrest people in unmarked cars and without identifying themselves for a non federal crime, then it should be game over and no self respecting conservative who believes in state rights should tolerate this. But I am extremely suspicious that there are military uninvited by the governor arresting people and putting them in unmarked minivans.

---

Some news organizations take time to report stuff far away. The New York Times can be great, but they also can be inept -- they were so blindsided by AOC that their first story devoted to her was after she won the Democratic primary.

Also, this is a Wolf operation.

Also. Lol. Conservatives only believe in states rights when the president is a Democrat. Also, don't be surprised if the right-wing anti-government encroachment militias keep mum.

---

Hey, isn't this the kind of stuff that 2nd Amendment advocates say is the reason behind the right to bear arms? Maybe the Portland protesters should lock and load and protect themselves. I'm SURE the NRA and other gun fetishists will line up to support them in this effort to exercise their rights. /s

---

Please do. Encourage them to lock and load. Get this over with sooner rather than later.

Bear70 said:

---

AunBear89 said:

---

Hey, isn't this the kind of stuff that 2nd Amendment advocates say is the reason behind the right to bear arms? Maybe the Portland protesters should lock and load and protect themselves. I'm SURE the NRA and other gun fetishists will line up to support them in this effort to exercise their rights. /s

---

Please do. Encourage them to lock and load. Get this over with sooner rather than later.

---

^ umm, think prolly you missed Aun's /s tag B70. it stands for sarcasm. which, newly informed, you woulda coulda shoulda stolen for yours. # peach-out

bonus content shared for no other reason than the uncredited cameo by sweet tommy smothers at the very end.
2020 TS update.. https://www.get.tv/gettv-blog/gettv-talks-smothers-brothers-laura-laplaca

If there were secret police, Trump would be tweeting about it.

This is creeping fascism. Those of us who began resisting immediately upon Trump's election saw this coming and it began early and it expands.

Trump has fired law enforcement that has investigated him, pardoned his partners in crime, suppressed evidence against himself, purged members of institutions he viewed as disloyal, fired inspector generals for doing their jobs, used the military against peaceful protesters, and now is using unmarked federal officers to detain without any record of the detention.

This will also expand. If Trump is reelected the unrecorded detention of citizens will go from a few hours to a few days. Eventually it will cause uncertainty enough that the citizenry will learn the only safe path is to not exercise their 1st amendment rights. Our country is in danger of being lost.

I hope the citizens of Portland turn out in huge protest and civil disobedience. This is bigger than the Covid risk, imo.

calbear93 said:

---

okaydo said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

okaydo said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

okaydo said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

okaydo said:

---

---

Hmmm....sounds likely. It's on the internet so it must be true.

---

If a reputable news organization is reporting on it and Oregon's governor and two U.S. senators are tweeting about it, it must be fake news.

---

Let me get this straight. CNN, WSJ, and NYT have no mention of this despite the fact this would be an earth shattering event for some secret, camouflaged federal military to patrol and arrest people that would otherwise be the exclusive jurisdiction of the state and city? And no identification of the "secret police" but someone who looks staged being taken into a normal looking civilian minivan does not give you pause but instead makes you think that this is real because you saw it in Twitter? And you think I am being overly skeptical? OK.

---

Well, it was first reported pretty late East Coast time and none of those papers have bureaus in Oregon. So they're just catching up this morning:

---

OK, so it's not early morning anymore, and still no mention by CNN, NYT or WSJ? Because, let's be honest, if Trump and Barr were sending military to arrest people in unmarked cars and without identifying themselves for a non federal crime, then it should be game over and no self respecting conservative who believes in state rights should tolerate this. But I am extremely suspicious that there are military uninvited by the governor arresting people and putting them in unmarked minivans.

---

Some news organizations take time to report stuff far away. The New York Times can be great, but they also can be inept -- they were so blindsided by AOC that their first story devoted to her was after she won the Democratic primary.

Also, this is a Wolf operation.

Also. Lol. Conservatives only believe in states rights when the president is a Democrat. Also, don't be surprised if the right-wing anti-government encroachment militias keep mum.

---

I don't disagree that, if what they are doing is going beyond protecting the federal building and encroaching on state rights, then conservatives should absolutely be outraged. I know I would be. And, quite frankly, they should just stay in the damn building or right outside and not intrude beyond the limited space. Cannot get rid of Trump and Barr quickly enough. If this is true, then Republicans who do not speak up should be ashamed and never again talk about a smaller federal government. Still hard to believe.

---

Setting aside, your personal feelings and convictions, you don't actually think conservatives will be outraged do you? Ask Bear70 if he would be outraged. Ask GoldenOne, BearlyAmazing or any of the other avowed conservatives on this forum if they would be outraged by the federal government engaging in broad peacekeeping missions or whatever you want to call what has been alleged to have occurred in Portland.

Bear70 has already weighed in - doesn't sound outraged at all. I think we all know that you are one of a shrinking number of principled conservatives and at this point they would all refer to you as a RINO and Never Trumper who has no home in the real Republican party.

Unit2Sucks said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

okaydo said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

okaydo said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

okaydo said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

okaydo said:

---

---

Hmmm....sounds likely. It's on the internet so it must be true.

---

If a reputable news organization is reporting on it and Oregon's governor and two U.S. senators are tweeting about it, it must be fake news.

---

Let me get this straight. CNN, WSJ, and NYT have no mention of this despite the fact this would be an earth shattering event for some secret, camouflaged federal military to patrol and arrest people that would otherwise be the exclusive jurisdiction of the state and city? And no identification of the "secret police" but someone who looks staged being taken into a normal looking civilian minivan does not give you pause but instead makes you think that this is real because you saw it in Twitter? And you think I am being overly skeptical? OK.

---

Well, it was first reported pretty late East Coast time and none of those papers have bureaus in Oregon. So they're just catching up this morning:

---

OK, so it's not early morning anymore, and still no mention by CNN, NYT or WSJ? Because, let's be honest, if Trump and Barr were sending military to arrest people in unmarked cars and without identifying themselves for a non federal crime, then it should be game over and no self respecting conservative who believes in state rights should tolerate this. But I am extremely suspicious that there are military uninvited by the governor arresting people and putting them in unmarked minivans.

---

Some news organizations take time to report stuff far away. The New York Times can be great, but they also can be inept -- they were so blindsided by AOC that their first story devoted to her was after she won the Democratic primary.

Also, this is a Wolf operation.

Also. Lol. Conservatives only believe in states rights when the president is a Democrat. Also, don't be surprised if the right-wing anti-government encroachment militias keep mum.

---

I don't disagree that, if what they are doing is going beyond protecting the federal building and encroaching on state rights, then conservatives should absolutely be outraged. I know I would be. And, quite frankly, they should just stay in the damn building or right outside and not intrude beyond the limited space. Cannot get rid of Trump and Barr quickly enough. If this is true, then Republicans who do not speak up should be ashamed and never again talk about a smaller federal government. Still hard to believe.

---

Setting aside, your personal feelings and convictions, you don't actually think conservatives will be outraged do you? Ask Bear70 if he would be outraged. Ask GoldenOne, BearlyAmazing or any of the other avowed conservatives on this forum if they would be outraged by the federal government engaging in broad peacekeeping missions or whatever you want to call what has been alleged to have occurred in Portland.

Bear70 has already weighed in - doesn't sound outraged at all. I think we all know that you are one of a shrinking number of principled conservatives and at this point they would all refer to you as a RINO and Never Trumper who has no home in the real Republican party.

---

If there are conservatives who are OK with this encroachment (if true), I would have the same objections that I would have with liberals who put ends before the means. We need to be principle based. Using objectionable means to achieve what one views as a positive good will only lead to acceptance of the means, deterioration of the principle, and not just a theoretical misuse of the same means for a destructive purpose. Whether it's reverse racism or violation of state rights, we have to be driven by how we do things and not let expediency be the price for our souls.

calbear93 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

okaydo said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

okaydo said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

okaydo said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

okaydo said:

---

---

Hmmm....sounds likely. It's on the internet so it must be true.

---

If a reputable news organization is reporting on it and Oregon's governor and two U.S. senators are tweeting about it, it must be fake news.

---

Let me get this straight. CNN, WSJ, and NYT have no mention of this despite the fact this would be an earth shattering event for some secret, camouflaged federal military to patrol and arrest people that would otherwise be the exclusive jurisdiction of the state and city? And no identification of the "secret police" but someone who looks staged being taken into a normal looking civilian minivan does not give you pause but instead makes you think that this is real because you saw it in Twitter? And you think I am being overly skeptical? OK.

---

Well, it was first reported pretty late East Coast time and none of those papers have bureaus in Oregon. So they're just catching up this morning:

---

OK, so it's not early morning anymore, and still no mention by CNN, NYT or WSJ? Because, let's be honest, if Trump and Barr were sending military to arrest people in unmarked cars and without identifying themselves for a non federal crime, then it should be game over and no self respecting conservative who believes in state rights should tolerate this. But I am extremely suspicious that there are military uninvited by the governor arresting people and putting them in unmarked minivans.

---

Some news organizations take time to report stuff far away. The New York Times can be great, but they also can be inept -- they were so blindsided by AOC that their first story devoted to her was after she won the Democratic primary.

Also, this is a Wolf operation.

Also. Lol. Conservatives only believe in states rights when the president is a Democrat. Also, don't be surprised if the right-wing anti-government encroachment militias keep mum.

---

I don't disagree that, if what they are doing is going beyond protecting the federal building and encroaching on state rights, then conservatives should absolutely be outraged. I know I would be. And, quite frankly, they should just stay in the damn building or right outside and not intrude beyond the limited space. Cannot get rid of Trump and Barr quickly enough. If this is true, then Republicans who do not speak up should be ashamed and never again talk about a smaller federal government. Still hard to believe.

---

Setting aside, your personal feelings and convictions, you don't actually think conservatives will be outraged do you? Ask Bear70 if he would be outraged. Ask GoldenOne, BearlyAmazing or any of the other avowed conservatives on this forum if they would be outraged by the federal government engaging in broad peacekeeping missions or whatever you want to call what has been alleged to have occurred in Portland.

Bear70 has already weighed in - doesn't sound outraged at all. I think we all know that you are one of a shrinking number of principled conservatives and at this point they would all refer to you as a RINO and Never Trumper who has no home in the real Republican party.

---

If there are conservatives who are OK with this encroachment (if true), I would have the same objections that I would have with liberals who put ends before the means. We need to be principle based. Using objectionable means to achieve what one views as a positive good will only lead to acceptance of the means, deterioration of the principle, and not just a theoretical misuse of the same means for a destructive purpose. Whether it's reverse racism or violation of state rights, we have to be driven by how we do things and not let expediency be the price for our souls.

---

You may be the only true conservative left.

By the way, more and more evidence is coming in. How will "conservatives" defend this in view of traditional conservative doctrine? They will talk like Trump and ignore those icky principles that people used to think had a place in the Republican party.

Notice he's "Acting" Secretary. Not Senate confirmed. Trump just bypasses that. Another part of the creep toward fascism.

Creep ? It's full on

https://twitter.com/DHS_Wolf?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1284081029683257344%7Ctwgr%5E&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fbearinsider.com%2Fforums%2F6%2Ftopics%2F96638

Look at his page ...

Americaiz*****ed

Bear70 said:

---

AunBear89 said:

---

okaydo said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

okaydo said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

okaydo said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

okaydo said:

---

---

Hmmm....sounds likely. It's on the internet so it must be true.

---

If a reputable news organization is reporting on it and Oregon's governor and two U.S. senators are tweeting about it, it must be fake news.

---

Let me get this straight. CNN, WSJ, and NYT have no mention of this despite the fact this would be an earth shattering event for some secret, camouflaged federal military to patrol and arrest people that would otherwise be the exclusive jurisdiction of the state and city? And no identification of the "secret police" but someone who looks staged being taken into a normal looking civilian minivan does not give you pause but instead makes you think that this is real because you saw it in Twitter? And you think I am being overly skeptical? OK.

---

Well, it was first reported pretty late East Coast time and none of those papers have bureaus in Oregon. So they're just catching up this morning:

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OK, so it's not early morning anymore, and still no mention by CNN, NYT or WSJ? Because, let's be honest, if Trump and Barr were sending military to arrest people in unmarked cars and without identifying themselves for a non federal crime, then it should be game over and no self respecting conservative who believes in state rights should tolerate this. But I am extremely suspicious that there are military uninvited by the governor arresting people and putting them in unmarked minivans.

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Some news organizations take time to report stuff far away. The New York Times can be great, but they also can be inept -- they were so blindsided by AOC that their first story devoted to her was after she won the Democratic primary.

Also, this is a Wolf operation.

Also. Lol. Conservatives only believe in states rights when the president is a Democrat. Also, don't be surprised if the right-wing anti-government encroachment militias keep mum.

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Hey, isn't this the kind of stuff that 2nd Amendment advocates say is the reason behind the right to bear arms? Maybe the Portland protesters should lock and load and protect themselves. I'm SURE the NRA and other gun fetishists will line up to support them in this effort to exercise their rights. /s

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Please do. Encourage them to lock and load. Get this over with sooner rather than later.

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The only time I will agree with that philosophy is if The Deplorables act up after Biden wins. In that case I would mobilize Federal troops and send them into action with heavy ordnance, including, but not limited to, tanks, drones and whatever else it takes to secure the Union.

As an Oregon resident and with several friends and family that are Portland residents I find the skepticism and doubt both telling and disturbing. This is very much happening right now and is not limited to protecting the federal buildings.

As an Oregon resident and with several friends and family that are Portland residents I find the skepticism and doubt both telling and disturbing. This is very much happening right now and is not limited to protecting the federal buildings.

Tedhead94 said:

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As an Oregon resident and with several friends and family that are Portland residents I find the skepticism and doubt both telling and disturbing. This is very much happening right now and is not limited to protecting the federal buildings.

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My skepticism stems from Reuters not having reported it yet, from the BBC not having reported it yet, and from vox (who is left leaning and would usually be all over something like this) not having reported it yet. These reports may still come, but I've never been the type to rush to judgment, and prefer to have multiple reports from news organizations I trust, and not use Twitter as a reliable source of information.

golden sloth said:

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Tedhead94 said:

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As an Oregon resident and with several friends and family that are Portland residents I find the skepticism and doubt both telling and disturbing. This is very much happening right now and is not limited to protecting the federal buildings.

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My skepticism stems from Reuters not having reported it yet, from the BBC not having reported it yet, and from vox (who is left leaning and would usually be all over something like this) not having reported it yet. These reports may still come, but I've never been the type to rush to judgment, and prefer to have multiple reports from news organizations I trust, and not use Twitter as a reliable source of information.

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Same here. This seem so monumentally stupid on the part of the federal government, my skepticism arises from lack of broader coverage and outrage and the small sliver of hope that we are not complete idiots.