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Cal Basketball

Jarred Hyder Eligible Immediately

December 16, 2020
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Jarred Hyder, the 6-5 transfer from Fresno State who was left twisting in the wind by NCAA rules, will be eligible to play for Cal immediately after the organization said all Division I athletes who transferred can play for their new schools immediately.

There was no immediate word from Cal or head coach Mark Fox, who said Sunday he had hoped to hear good news from the NCAA this week. According to Fox, Hyder sustained an injury in practice so just when he will be able to be on the court is unclear.

A sophomore from San Bernardino, Hyder averaged 9.1 points and 3.1 assists last season for Fresno State. He scored 20 points or more four times.

Fox was counting on Hyder to be his point guard and was frustrated when the NCAA refused to grant Hyder a waiver for his eligibility while other transfers around the country were granted theirs. Now everyone is cleared.

Although the school has not announced it yet, the Bears have scheduled a home game for this Saturday against Cal State-Northridge according to the ESPN website. ,

Related:

Men's Basketball Adds Game to Schedule

Discussion from...

Jarred Hyder Eligible Immediately

8,260 Views | 26 Replies | Last: 9 mo ago by calumnus
bearmanpg
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Not so sure about Hyder being 6' 5".....last year he was listed as 6' 3" and when I saw him play, he looked 6' 3".....strange year but I suspect this is a case of exaggerated listing rather than remarkable growth.....
SFCityBear
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"Fox was counting on Hyder to be his point guard"

I hadn't heard this before, that Hyder was going to HIS point guard. To the exclusion of the other point guards, Joel Brown and Makale Foreman? I thought it was going to be an open competition for the PG slot.
BC Calfan
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Notice him standing in a huddle during USF game. Defintiely not 6'5. Kinda surprised me that he was more like Joel's height. Doesn't matter as long as he can play!
helltopay1
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Bearman: Everyone exaggerates his height. Bigly...Remember Jesus of Nazareth???Yeah---that guy . well--his body was just exhumed and it turns out he was only 4/10 . He must have been on stilts when he was painted by those Renaissance painters. According to the Dead Sea Scrolls, Jesus shot 87.5% from the free throw line over a 6 year period. Please google.
KoreAmBear
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helltopay1 said:

Bearman: Everyone exaggerates his height. Bigly...Remember Jesus of Nazareth???Yeah---that guy . well--his body was just exhumed and it turns out he was only 4/10 . He must have been on stilts when he was painted by those Renaissance painters. According to the Dead Sea Scrolls, Jesus shot 87.5% from the free throw line over a 6 year period. Please google.
Yah but he resurrected Nazareth's program and was the first Star of David to come out of Bethlehem since, err, David. I think he was perfect from the line though. He never sinned.
Go!Bears
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But I think he was only a one-star.
KoreAmBear
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Go!Bears said:

But I think he was only a one-star.
HoopDreams
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6-3 is a good size for a PG
89Bear
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I missed the game. Anyone want to comment on how Hyder looked?
Thoughts on his potential for this year?

Thanks!!!
oskidunker
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Go!Bears said:

But I think he was only a one-star.
Three star out of high school.He will find the open man. Big addition.
SFCityBear
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89Bear said:

I missed the game. Anyone want to comment on how Hyder looked?
Thoughts on his potential for this year?

Thanks!!!
Mike Montgomery said it best when he said that Hyder really understands the game. He made that comment on one play after Hyder drove into the lane, let the defense come to him and then slipped by to find an open spot to shoot a high percentage open shot on the run, which missed, unfortunately.

Joel Brown is a talented and athletic player, but he does not see the whole floor and this often leads him to making the wrong decision as to when to drive into the lane, and as a result, sometimes he gets caught in the lane or up in the air with no where to go and no way to dump the pass off to a teammate. The paint does get crowded, and you have to instinctively feel when you might get bottled up and when you might have a clear lane for a shot or an assist, and make an instantaneous decision as to when to take it into the lane, and when to take a a smarter option.

Makale Foreman has the same problem, but less often, and he too, at times gets caught up in the air with no possibility of making a shot or a pass to a teammate and getting stuffed or losing the ball. Montgomery did comment on one drive by Foreman than he had gotten caught up in the air with nowhere to go. You seldom see the great ones, like Jason Kidd, get caught up in the air, and lose the ball or eat it.

However, both Brown and Foreman have been contributing so much lately, Brown with plenty of steals and assists, and Foreman with his outside scoring, along with some good drives, that Hyder will have his work cut out for him to try and become the starter or the point guard getting the most minutes. He is clearly a little rusty from being injured and not having practiced or played in a while. His shooting is a bit off, and he needs to find a rhythm. He has good size, is fast, and his defense looks solid. I hope he comes along quickly and gives Cal another good weapon, and maybe another way to play as a team.
SFCityBear
HearstMining
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SFCityBear said:

89Bear said:

I missed the game. Anyone want to comment on how Hyder looked?
Thoughts on his potential for this year?

Thanks!!!
Mike Montgomery said it best when he said that Hyder really understands the game. He made that comment on one play after Hyder drove into the lane, let the defense come to him and then slipped by to find an open spot to shoot a high percentage open shot on the run, which missed, unfortunately.

Joel Brown is a talented and athletic player, but he does not see the whole floor and this often leads him to making the wrong decision as to when to drive into the lane, and as a result, sometimes he gets caught in the lane or up in the air with no where to go and no way to dump the pass off to a teammate. The paint does get crowded, and you have to instinctively feel when you might get bottled up and when you might have a clear lane for a shot or an assist, and make an instantaneous decision as to when to take it into the lane, and when to take a a smarter option.

Makale Foreman has the same problem, but less often, and he too, at times gets caught up in the air with no possibility of making a shot or a pass to a teammate and getting stuffed or losing the ball. Montgomery did comment on one drive by Foreman than he had gotten caught up in the air with nowhere to go. You seldom see the great ones, like Jason Kidd, get caught up in the air, and lose the ball or eat it.

However, both Brown and Foreman have been contributing so much lately, Brown with plenty of steals and assists, and Foreman with his outside scoring, along with some good drives, that Hyder will have his work cut out for him to try and become the starter or the point guard getting the most minutes. He is clearly a little rusty from being injured and not having practiced or played in a while. His shooting is a bit off, and he needs to find a rhythm. He has good size, is fast, and his defense looks solid. I hope he comes along quickly and gives Cal another good weapon, and maybe another way to play as a team.
Is it instinct? Or is it analyzing the situation and very quickly having a "Plan A" and a "Plan B" in mind when you start that drive. I think the Kidds, Jordans, Birds, Magics, etc developed that thought process to such a point that it's instinctive to them, but only because they repeated it. I wonder if coaches make any effort to teach kids how to analyze and make a decision on the court. I think Monty certainly did, but he probably got impatient pretty quickly if a player didn't get it. I don't think Cuonzo did because his answer was always "take it to the rim". So my point is, did anybody ever ask Joel Brown, "What do you look at and what are you thinking before you drive to the hoop?".

Now, it's a fair argument to say that a player should know that by the time they're playing in college, but how many actually do?
KoreAmBear
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Man Monty really knows what's going on; I always learn more about basketball every time he is the commentator.

We even learned that he felt bad when blowing out Lavin's UCLA team by 50. He said you feel bad when the walkon who doesn't even have a jersey puts one on and then goes in and hits a three. He also said well at least CSUN didn't have to endure the "start the bus" chants if we had a crowd. I never knew Monty had a heart at Furd lol. Is there another guy who we hated so much, become not only well-respected (we always had that begrudging respect for him), but now beloved by our fan base?
helltopay1
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Monty said that "Fox was a good coachand a good man." That will stand Cal in good stead when a family calls Monty to get his opinion on whether to send their son to Cal. " I feel better already.
BC Calfan
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Do you think he intentionally didn't mention when he beat us by 50 in the 2000 season? 101-50. Jeezus.
HoopDreams
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good post SFCity,

I think one issue with Brown is he has one speed, so when he drives he has to make a quick decision

with Hyder, he's learned that with good ball handling, you DON'T necessarily need to make a play. You can back it out, probe again, or just restart the offense

He doesn't appear to have elite quickness, but with his good ball handling, he can get into the paint just with his hesitation moves. It's amazing how effective they are. Kinda lulls defenders to sleep, and before they know it, they are chasing him
SFCityBear
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HearstMining said:

SFCityBear said:

89Bear said:

I missed the game. Anyone want to comment on how Hyder looked?
Thoughts on his potential for this year?

Thanks!!!
Mike Montgomery said it best when he said that Hyder really understands the game. He made that comment on one play after Hyder drove into the lane, let the defense come to him and then slipped by to find an open spot to shoot a high percentage open shot on the run, which missed, unfortunately.

Joel Brown is a talented and athletic player, but he does not see the whole floor and this often leads him to making the wrong decision as to when to drive into the lane, and as a result, sometimes he gets caught in the lane or up in the air with no where to go and no way to dump the pass off to a teammate. The paint does get crowded, and you have to instinctively feel when you might get bottled up and when you might have a clear lane for a shot or an assist, and make an instantaneous decision as to when to take it into the lane, and when to take a a smarter option.

Makale Foreman has the same problem, but less often, and he too, at times gets caught up in the air with no possibility of making a shot or a pass to a teammate and getting stuffed or losing the ball. Montgomery did comment on one drive by Foreman than he had gotten caught up in the air with nowhere to go. You seldom see the great ones, like Jason Kidd, get caught up in the air, and lose the ball or eat it.

However, both Brown and Foreman have been contributing so much lately, Brown with plenty of steals and assists, and Foreman with his outside scoring, along with some good drives, that Hyder will have his work cut out for him to try and become the starter or the point guard getting the most minutes. He is clearly a little rusty from being injured and not having practiced or played in a while. His shooting is a bit off, and he needs to find a rhythm. He has good size, is fast, and his defense looks solid. I hope he comes along quickly and gives Cal another good weapon, and maybe another way to play as a team.
Is it instinct? Or is it analyzing the situation and very quickly having a "Plan A" and a "Plan B" in mind when you start that drive. I think the Kidds, Jordans, Birds, Magics, etc developed that thought process to such a point that it's instinctive to them, but only because they repeated it. I wonder if coaches make any effort to teach kids how to analyze and make a decision on the court. I think Monty certainly did, but he probably got impatient pretty quickly if a player didn't get it. I don't think Cuonzo did because his answer was always "take it to the rim". So my point is, did anybody ever ask Joel Brown, "What do you look at and what are you thinking before you drive to the hoop?".

Now, it's a fair argument to say that a player should know that by the time they're playing in college, but how many actually do?
I think you are right that players get better with repetition. I suppose players have a plan B, but with many of them, plan B may not be very good. I don't know that players can be taught how to analyze a situation, or how to make quick decisions. It would be a good question to ask Mike Montgomery. I happen to feel good point guards are born, not made, so I think it is more instinct.

Two of the best point guards I ever saw were two I played with in my high school days. One was Denny Lewis, who played for Cal and Rene Herrerias, and the other was Johnny Garber, who went on to a career on the pro tennis circuit. Both were natural athletes, and both were All-City, Denny in basketball, football, and track, and Johnny in basketball and tennis. Denny was an all-city tailback in football and the City 180 yard low hurdles champion. Johnny was all-city in basketball, and had never picked up a tennis racquet before, but decided to try out for Lowell's perennial city champion team, and became our best player. Denny played a couple years at Cal, but he was too fast for the rest of his teammates. He was best in the open court, running a fastbreak, but none of his Cal teammates could keep up with him. Kinglsey Okoroh would likely have beaten most of them in a footrace. Denny was like a player-coach when I played with him. He showed all of us just how to get open and where he needed us to be to receive the ball for an easy layup. We never had any practices, nor did we have a coach. Denny just seemed to know where we were all the time, and when we were open, he fed us the ball for easy buckets. My guess is he averaged near 10 assists a game and 28 points. He was 14 years old the year I played with him. Both Denny and Johnny were very unselfish players, always trying to make a teammate look good, rather than trying to score much of the time.

Johnny Garber was a transfer from Covina, and the LA area was known more for fast break offense in those days, whereas the Bay Area was known for pattern play in the halfcourt, and defense. The first time I played in a scrimmage with Johnny, he hit me in the head with a pass. A bullet. He came up and told me, "You need to stay awake. Listen carefully. If I am not looking at you, you are probably going to get a pass. So get yourself open, and pay attention to my eyes." Or something like that. Johnny was 15 at the time.

The second time I heard something like that was on a videotape years later, when some of Pete Maravich's teammates said that if they were open, and if Pete was not looking at them, they had to be alert, because he would probably pass the ball to them. I'd bet that Maravich trained himself to play that way, and he was better than his peers in doing it, and he was likely better at it by age 14 or probably even earlier. Trying to teach these skills to a player who is a highly rated recruit of 18 or more would be a real challenge, I should think.

SFCityBear
SFCityBear
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Here is an article about Jason Kidd's coach moving him to point guard, after seeing him dominate play as a 10-year old high-scoring forward, Some of the best ones start early and are good at being a point guard by the time they reach high school:
https://observer.com/2002/06/when-kidd-was-a-kid/
SFCityBear
Big C
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SFCityBear said:

Here is an article about Jason Kidd's coach moving him to point guard, after seeing him dominate play as a 10-year old high-scoring forward, Some of the best ones start early and are good at being a point guard by the time they reach high school:
https://observer.com/2002/06/when-kidd-was-a-kid/

Great article, SFCity.

When Kidd was in the 9th grade, his St Joe's team played the high school I was teaching at in an early-round North Coast Section playoff game. Our star player was in my class; not a bad kid, but not a young man of great character, either. St Joe's won the game handily. Kidd already had the rep, so when my student came in the next Monday morning, I asked him how that freshman was for St Joe's. He waved his hand, dismissively, "Ah, he wasn't nuthin'."

Yeah, right.
helltopay1
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Jesus wasn't rated by any of the scouting services..He was a walk-on. He impressed his teammates by his assist-to-turnover ratio and his ability to walk on water. On holy days, he didn't go near the water, but, he frightened the other teams by speaking in parables.
oskidunker
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Beat Seattle! Go Bears!maybe we should go sit outside the gym with a radio, sigh.Coming out party for Thorpe. Hope Theiman keeps dunking. By the way, what ever happened to Joe Theisman?
HoopDreams
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SFCityBear said:

HearstMining said:

SFCityBear said:

89Bear said:

I missed the game. Anyone want to comment on how Hyder looked?
Thoughts on his potential for this year?

Thanks!!!
Mike Montgomery said it best when he said that Hyder really understands the game. He made that comment on one play after Hyder drove into the lane, let the defense come to him and then slipped by to find an open spot to shoot a high percentage open shot on the run, which missed, unfortunately.

Joel Brown is a talented and athletic player, but he does not see the whole floor and this often leads him to making the wrong decision as to when to drive into the lane, and as a result, sometimes he gets caught in the lane or up in the air with no where to go and no way to dump the pass off to a teammate. The paint does get crowded, and you have to instinctively feel when you might get bottled up and when you might have a clear lane for a shot or an assist, and make an instantaneous decision as to when to take it into the lane, and when to take a a smarter option.

Makale Foreman has the same problem, but less often, and he too, at times gets caught up in the air with no possibility of making a shot or a pass to a teammate and getting stuffed or losing the ball. Montgomery did comment on one drive by Foreman than he had gotten caught up in the air with nowhere to go. You seldom see the great ones, like Jason Kidd, get caught up in the air, and lose the ball or eat it.

However, both Brown and Foreman have been contributing so much lately, Brown with plenty of steals and assists, and Foreman with his outside scoring, along with some good drives, that Hyder will have his work cut out for him to try and become the starter or the point guard getting the most minutes. He is clearly a little rusty from being injured and not having practiced or played in a while. His shooting is a bit off, and he needs to find a rhythm. He has good size, is fast, and his defense looks solid. I hope he comes along quickly and gives Cal another good weapon, and maybe another way to play as a team.
Is it instinct? Or is it analyzing the situation and very quickly having a "Plan A" and a "Plan B" in mind when you start that drive. I think the Kidds, Jordans, Birds, Magics, etc developed that thought process to such a point that it's instinctive to them, but only because they repeated it. I wonder if coaches make any effort to teach kids how to analyze and make a decision on the court. I think Monty certainly did, but he probably got impatient pretty quickly if a player didn't get it. I don't think Cuonzo did because his answer was always "take it to the rim". So my point is, did anybody ever ask Joel Brown, "What do you look at and what are you thinking before you drive to the hoop?".

Now, it's a fair argument to say that a player should know that by the time they're playing in college, but how many actually do?
I think you are right that players get better with repetition. I suppose players have a plan B, but with many of them, plan B may not be very good. I don't know that players can be taught how to analyze a situation, or how to make quick decisions. It would be a good question to ask Mike Montgomery. I happen to feel good point guards are born, not made, so I think it is more instinct.

I think you're right for the great ones. Similar to great shooters.

but I believe PGs and Shooters can greatly improve with good coaching and hard work.

If they aren't "born" with the natural talent, their upside will be limited, but I watch plenty of players get better as they advance through out HS or College.

One reason I've specifically encountered is the game slowing down. One of the biggest challenges for players going from one level to the next is the speed of the game.
KoreAmBear
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BC Calfan said:

Do you think he intentionally didn't mention when he beat us by 50 in the 2000 season? 101-50. Jeezus.
Yes he's a kinder, gentler Monty.
SFCityBear
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KoreAmBear said:

BC Calfan said:

Do you think he intentionally didn't mention when he beat us by 50 in the 2000 season? 101-50. Jeezus.
Yes he's a kinder, gentler Monty.
He's ours now, and probably will remain so, unless he decides to be a head coach again. I don't hear him tooting any horns for Stanford.
SFCityBear
SFCityBear
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HoopDreams said:

SFCityBear said:

HearstMining said:

SFCityBear said:

89Bear said:

I missed the game. Anyone want to comment on how Hyder looked?
Thoughts on his potential for this year?

Thanks!!!
Mike Montgomery said it best when he said that Hyder really understands the game. He made that comment on one play after Hyder drove into the lane, let the defense come to him and then slipped by to find an open spot to shoot a high percentage open shot on the run, which missed, unfortunately.

Joel Brown is a talented and athletic player, but he does not see the whole floor and this often leads him to making the wrong decision as to when to drive into the lane, and as a result, sometimes he gets caught in the lane or up in the air with no where to go and no way to dump the pass off to a teammate. The paint does get crowded, and you have to instinctively feel when you might get bottled up and when you might have a clear lane for a shot or an assist, and make an instantaneous decision as to when to take it into the lane, and when to take a a smarter option.

Makale Foreman has the same problem, but less often, and he too, at times gets caught up in the air with no possibility of making a shot or a pass to a teammate and getting stuffed or losing the ball. Montgomery did comment on one drive by Foreman than he had gotten caught up in the air with nowhere to go. You seldom see the great ones, like Jason Kidd, get caught up in the air, and lose the ball or eat it.

However, both Brown and Foreman have been contributing so much lately, Brown with plenty of steals and assists, and Foreman with his outside scoring, along with some good drives, that Hyder will have his work cut out for him to try and become the starter or the point guard getting the most minutes. He is clearly a little rusty from being injured and not having practiced or played in a while. His shooting is a bit off, and he needs to find a rhythm. He has good size, is fast, and his defense looks solid. I hope he comes along quickly and gives Cal another good weapon, and maybe another way to play as a team.
Is it instinct? Or is it analyzing the situation and very quickly having a "Plan A" and a "Plan B" in mind when you start that drive. I think the Kidds, Jordans, Birds, Magics, etc developed that thought process to such a point that it's instinctive to them, but only because they repeated it. I wonder if coaches make any effort to teach kids how to analyze and make a decision on the court. I think Monty certainly did, but he probably got impatient pretty quickly if a player didn't get it. I don't think Cuonzo did because his answer was always "take it to the rim". So my point is, did anybody ever ask Joel Brown, "What do you look at and what are you thinking before you drive to the hoop?".

Now, it's a fair argument to say that a player should know that by the time they're playing in college, but how many actually do?
I think you are right that players get better with repetition. I suppose players have a plan B, but with many of them, plan B may not be very good. I don't know that players can be taught how to analyze a situation, or how to make quick decisions. It would be a good question to ask Mike Montgomery. I happen to feel good point guards are born, not made, so I think it is more instinct.

I think you're right for the great ones. Similar to great shooters.

but I believe PGs and Shooters can greatly improve with good coaching and hard work.

If they aren't "born" with the natural talent, their upside will be limited, but I watch plenty of players get better as they advance through out HS or College.

One reason I've specifically encountered is the game slowing down. One of the biggest challenges for players going from one level to the next is the speed of the game.
I agree that all players can improve. I was speaking specifically about point guards, and I tried to point that out by using as examples two friends and teammates from high school days, who were outstanding point guards in high school, but neither was a great point guard in college or the NBA like Jason Kidd or Pistol Pete. And yet they both had great ability for high school anyway, to see the whole floor and understand the game as it was being played in San Francisco high schools in those years. My point was not well stated, but I think that ability is present not only in the great college point guard or NBA point guard, but also in my two high school teammates, and I think all of them were already very good at it when they arrived at high school. Cal has had a number of point guards who arrived at Cal with this ability, and became leaders right away of Cal teams. I can't think of a Cal point guard who greatly improved his ability to understand the game and see the whole floor, and seem to make the right play most of the time. There may have been some, but I can't think of any offhand. Players do improve, so I probably overlooked some. You are a coach, so maybe you have coached some point guards show great improvement in court vision and understanding the game.

I feel the same about shooters, but that is different. It is an individual skill, one you can practice alone in a gym or playground. helltopay1 has said that you can tell if a kid can shoot by the 5th grade, or something like that. I Hope I'm right about that. It was true for me, anyway. I did enjoy practicing though. I used to set goals for myself. I had to be home for dinner by 6PM, and if I wasn't home, I'd get a licking. I used to practice making shots farther and farther away from the hoop, and not go home until I made a number in a row. When I got bored with that, I had to swish shots in an row, not hit the rim at all. If I hit the rim and the ball went in the basket, it didn't count. I had to swish the ball a number of times in a row, before I'd allow myself to go home for dinner. I was on time for dinner most of the time, but I was late some days, and it wasn't pleasant, so I had to get better or not practice so hard. I don't know if the practice ever helped. I always shot well in games, and rarely had a bad game shooting, and that was true when I was 10 years old when I didn't practice much, and when I was 16 and practiced a lot. Others may have had a different experience.

Seeing the floor and understanding the game doesn't depend on knowing the moves and habits of your teammates and the defenders defending you, like a point guard must learn by playing hundreds and thousands of games.
SFCityBear
calumnus
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SFCityBear said:

HoopDreams said:

SFCityBear said:

HearstMining said:

SFCityBear said:

89Bear said:

I missed the game. Anyone want to comment on how Hyder looked?
Thoughts on his potential for this year?

Thanks!!!
Mike Montgomery said it best when he said that Hyder really understands the game. He made that comment on one play after Hyder drove into the lane, let the defense come to him and then slipped by to find an open spot to shoot a high percentage open shot on the run, which missed, unfortunately.

Joel Brown is a talented and athletic player, but he does not see the whole floor and this often leads him to making the wrong decision as to when to drive into the lane, and as a result, sometimes he gets caught in the lane or up in the air with no where to go and no way to dump the pass off to a teammate. The paint does get crowded, and you have to instinctively feel when you might get bottled up and when you might have a clear lane for a shot or an assist, and make an instantaneous decision as to when to take it into the lane, and when to take a a smarter option.

Makale Foreman has the same problem, but less often, and he too, at times gets caught up in the air with no possibility of making a shot or a pass to a teammate and getting stuffed or losing the ball. Montgomery did comment on one drive by Foreman than he had gotten caught up in the air with nowhere to go. You seldom see the great ones, like Jason Kidd, get caught up in the air, and lose the ball or eat it.

However, both Brown and Foreman have been contributing so much lately, Brown with plenty of steals and assists, and Foreman with his outside scoring, along with some good drives, that Hyder will have his work cut out for him to try and become the starter or the point guard getting the most minutes. He is clearly a little rusty from being injured and not having practiced or played in a while. His shooting is a bit off, and he needs to find a rhythm. He has good size, is fast, and his defense looks solid. I hope he comes along quickly and gives Cal another good weapon, and maybe another way to play as a team.
Is it instinct? Or is it analyzing the situation and very quickly having a "Plan A" and a "Plan B" in mind when you start that drive. I think the Kidds, Jordans, Birds, Magics, etc developed that thought process to such a point that it's instinctive to them, but only because they repeated it. I wonder if coaches make any effort to teach kids how to analyze and make a decision on the court. I think Monty certainly did, but he probably got impatient pretty quickly if a player didn't get it. I don't think Cuonzo did because his answer was always "take it to the rim". So my point is, did anybody ever ask Joel Brown, "What do you look at and what are you thinking before you drive to the hoop?".

Now, it's a fair argument to say that a player should know that by the time they're playing in college, but how many actually do?
I think you are right that players get better with repetition. I suppose players have a plan B, but with many of them, plan B may not be very good. I don't know that players can be taught how to analyze a situation, or how to make quick decisions. It would be a good question to ask Mike Montgomery. I happen to feel good point guards are born, not made, so I think it is more instinct.

I think you're right for the great ones. Similar to great shooters.

but I believe PGs and Shooters can greatly improve with good coaching and hard work.

If they aren't "born" with the natural talent, their upside will be limited, but I watch plenty of players get better as they advance through out HS or College.

One reason I've specifically encountered is the game slowing down. One of the biggest challenges for players going from one level to the next is the speed of the game.
I agree that all players can improve. I was speaking specifically about point guards, and I tried to point that out by using as examples two friends and teammates from high school days, who were outstanding point guards in high school, but neither was a great point guard in college or the NBA like Jason Kidd or Pistol Pete. And yet they both had great ability for high school anyway, to see the whole floor and understand the game as it was being played in San Francisco high schools in those years. My point was not well stated, but I think that ability is present not only in the great college point guard or NBA point guard, but also in my two high school teammates, and I think all of them were already very good at it when they arrived at high school. Cal has had a number of point guards who arrived at Cal with this ability, and became leaders right away of Cal teams. I can't think of a Cal point guard who greatly improved his ability to understand the game and see the whole floor, and seem to make the right play most of the time. There may have been some, but I can't think of any offhand. Players do improve, so I probably overlooked some. You are a coach, so maybe you have coached some point guards show great improvement in court vision and understanding the game.

I feel the same about shooters, but that is different. It is an individual skill, one you can practice alone in a gym or playground. helltopay1 has said that you can tell if a kid can shoot by the 5th grade, or something like that. I Hope I'm right about that. It was true for me, anyway. I did enjoy practicing though. I used to set goals for myself. I had to be home for dinner by 6PM, and if I wasn't home, I'd get a licking. I used to practice making shots farther and farther away from the hoop, and not go home until I made a number in a row. When I got bored with that, I had to swish shots in an row, not hit the rim at all. If I hit the rim and the ball went in the basket, it didn't count. I had to swish the ball a number of times in a row, before I'd allow myself to go home for dinner. I was on time for dinner most of the time, but I was late some days, and it wasn't pleasant, so I had to get better or not practice so hard. I don't know if the practice ever helped. I always shot well in games, and rarely had a bad game shooting, and that was true when I was 10 years old when I didn't practice much, and when I was 16 and practiced a lot. Others may have had a different experience.

Seeing the floor and understanding the game doesn't depend on knowing the moves and habits of your teammates and the defenders defending you, like a point guard must learn by playing hundreds and thousands of games.


Ding Ding Ding! I think it is this last point. Good PGs are gym rats, they play thousands of games and can make decisions almost without thinking because the game is multidimensional and they get to the point where it is instinctual. It is tough to coach that. It is like a great jazz musician improvising, it is based on mastery of the instrument through many hours of playing. In fact good PGs very frequently have conflict with their coach unless the coach just lets them play.
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