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Cal Football

The Future of Cal Athletics hangs in the balance

July 3, 2022
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The world of college athletics is changing fast, and the decision on Thursday of USC and UCLA to leave the Pac 12 has brought a crisis to Berkeley whose implications will be felt for decades to come.

To put this bluntly, if the opportunity for Cal to continue to grow its football revenue by playing on College Football’s biggest stage is lost, the Athletic Department and financial future for the University will be forever changed.

  • Cal’s current Stadium Debt and the commitments it made to capital programs (outside of Memorial Stadium), coaches' salaries, etc could be as high as $1B.  The repayment of which is based on the future revenues that come from Football.  
  • It’s almost impossible to imagine that a reconstituted Pac 12 without the LA Schools would be able to come close to the revenue needed to support the current department.  
  • Without a seat at College Football’s biggest table, there’s an almost near certainty of Cal needing to cut many of its current sports.  Though the largest implication may well be the material and long-term loss of alumni support for the University as a whole.  Season ticket holders, ESP donors, Championship Caliber Fund supporters, and potential NIL funders are likely to dissipate quickly

I urge all of you to reach out to your State Assembly and Senate Representatives as well as Chancellor Christ and Athletic Director Jim Knowlton.  A template representing our viewpoint is included below if needed:

Dear Chancellor Christ,

I write to you today as a passionate supporter of Cal Athletics and the University at large.  The events of last Thursday where our sister Campus at UCLA and our long-time rival USC, choose to leave the Pac-12 leave me feeling anxious and unsure about the future.  I implore you and the UC Regents to do all that you can to ensure that Cal protects the invaluable revenue engine and alumni connector that is Cal Football from being marginalized within the changing College Sports landscape.  An outcome whereby Cal competes in a reconfigured Pac 12 or in any way is a second-class citizen to the members of the Big 10 and the SEC will irrevocably alter my future commitment as a donor, ticket buyer, and supporter of Cal.   This University offers the world including College Athletics, too much to be anything other than an equal participant alongside the very best Football Programs in the country.

Best,

XXXXXX

cchrist@berkeley.edu

jim.knowlton@berkeley.edu

Related:  UCLA and USC to leave the Pac 12

Discussion from...

The Future of Cal Athletics hangs in the balance

30,732 Views | 56 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by berserkeley
Banzai
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9:35a, 7/3/22
Well Cal has made no attempt at all to bring fans to Memorial Stadium. The sound system does not work, the east side is still stuck firmly in the 1930s, and for our decades long tradition you fail to field a football program that is rarely better than a .500 team, feared by no one.

Yes the money problem with the stadium sucks, but that is all on you, not SC or UCLA.

I will still buy season tickets as I have for many years, even if I am the only one there. Stop the blame game. You should have fixed your own home first.
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cal93
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9:38a, 7/3/22
Might I add this email as well:

regentsoffice@ucop.edu
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MikeT
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10:00a, 7/3/22
Honestly, I have mixed feelings on this. I'm a Cal alum, and I have so many great memories at Memorial Stadium, so it'd be sad to see the program wither away. On the other hand, I have to shake my head at the absurdity of this talk of demanding that Cal be in a conference with the likes of Michigan and Ohio State. At that point, we're so far removed from the original mission of college sports (recreation for the student body, as players and fans). When I was a student at Cal, a road trip to the L.A. Coliseum or up to Eugene wasn't out of the question. No Cal students are road-tripping to Ann Arbor or Columbus in the middle of October. Hell, few alumni care to do that either. This is about the money and nothing more, and to hell with the student body, the athletes and the alumni.
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socaliganbear
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In reply to MikeT • 10:05a, 7/3/22
MikeT said:
Honestly, I have mixed feelings on this. I'm a Cal alum, and I have so many great memories at Memorial Stadium, so it'd be sad to see the program wither away. On the other hand, I have to shake my head at the absurdity of this talk of demanding that Cal be in a conference with the likes of Michigan and Ohio State. At that point, we're so far removed from the original mission of college sports (recreation for the student body, as players and fans). When I was a student at Cal, a road trip to the L.A. Coliseum or up to Eugene wasn't out of the question. No Cal students are road-tripping to Ann Arbor or Columbus in the middle of October. Hell, few alumni care to do that either. This is about the money and nothing more, and to hell with the student body, the athletes and the alumni.
I feel pretty confident in speculating that students, and alumni alike would be more excited to travel to these destinations over Tucson, Corvalis, Pullman. I'd sure make the trip.
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4thGenCal
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In reply to socaliganbear • 10:22a, 7/3/22
socaliganbear said:
MikeT said:
Honestly, I have mixed feelings on this. I'm a Cal alum, and I have so many great memories at Memorial Stadium, so it'd be sad to see the program wither away. On the other hand, I have to shake my head at the absurdity of this talk of demanding that Cal be in a conference with the likes of Michigan and Ohio State. At that point, we're so far removed from the original mission of college sports (recreation for the student body, as players and fans). When I was a student at Cal, a road trip to the L.A. Coliseum or up to Eugene wasn't out of the question. No Cal students are road-tripping to Ann Arbor or Columbus in the middle of October. Hell, few alumni care to do that either. This is about the money and nothing more, and to hell with the student body, the athletes and the alumni.
I feel pretty confident in speculating that students, and alumni alike would be more excited to travel to these destinations over Tucson, Corvalis, Pullman. I'd sure make the trip.
Totally agree - Tennessee, Ole Miss trips fun and having been to the Big House, and Neb stadiums - its an awesome experience. If Cal can't get into the B10, Alum/fan support, donor support and overall college experience for the majority of students will decline - even if there remains a watered down Pac12.
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Northside91
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In reply to MikeT • 10:32a, 7/3/22
MikeT said:
Honestly, I have mixed feelings on this. I'm a Cal alum, and I have so many great memories at Memorial Stadium, so it'd be sad to see the program wither away. On the other hand, I have to shake my head at the absurdity of this talk of demanding that Cal be in a conference with the likes of Michigan and Ohio State. At that point, we're so far removed from the original mission of college sports (recreation for the student body, as players and fans). When I was a student at Cal, a road trip to the L.A. Coliseum or up to Eugene wasn't out of the question. No Cal students are road-tripping to Ann Arbor or Columbus in the middle of October. Hell, few alumni care to do that either. This is about the money and nothing more, and to hell with the student body, the athletes and the alumni.


Are students and alums road tripping anywhere? I'm sure it would be a terrifying idea for many. Close proximity in cars/planes, mass spectator events, lodging. Seems so scary....Phobias aside, only a tiny number have enough interest in the product to attend home games, nevermind traveling across time zones.

This is many years in the (un)making. Turn off the lights and close the door. It's done.
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Gobears49
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11:03a, 7/3/22
I'd say investigate how Cal and its brethren Pac 12 schools would fare financially if it could convince Oregon and Washington to stay in the Pac 12 and add the two very attractive football teams from the Mountain West Conference, San Diego St. and Boise St., into the Pac 12 Conference. They would be fun and perhaps new places for Cal fans to visit over a weekend while rooting on their Bears.

I believe these two teams are the best teams that could be added to the Pac 12 from the standpoint of having outstanding recent football histories, from the standpoint of being fun places to visit, as well as being fairly close to existing Pac 12 teams geographically. Adding them would result in almost the same conference geographic size as before, making it feasible to retain all of the existing non-football sports offered by the Pac 12 as before, if desired. Those two cities have have existing flight schedules to almost all of the cities that would exist in a revised Pac 12 I have set forth and perhaps new flights could be added by an airline company to fill any existing gaps.

In that way, the Pac 12 can still survive as a Power Five school and hopefully will still be allowed to potentially compete in the football national championship as before, especially if that playoff is extended to eight teams.

I think both San Diego St. and Boise State would accept an invitation to join the ten remaining Pac 12 schools. It's worth a shot to give this a try.
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Bobodeluxe
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11:29a, 7/3/22
This, or some modest variation, is the best case outcome to realistically hope for.

I doubt we will be anything close to this fortunate.
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Cal_79
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In reply to Northside91 • 11:45a, 7/3/22
Northside91 said:
MikeT said:
Honestly, I have mixed feelings on this. I'm a Cal alum, and I have so many great memories at Memorial Stadium, so it'd be sad to see the program wither away. On the other hand, I have to shake my head at the absurdity of this talk of demanding that Cal be in a conference with the likes of Michigan and Ohio State. At that point, we're so far removed from the original mission of college sports (recreation for the student body, as players and fans). When I was a student at Cal, a road trip to the L.A. Coliseum or up to Eugene wasn't out of the question. No Cal students are road-tripping to Ann Arbor or Columbus in the middle of October. Hell, few alumni care to do that either. This is about the money and nothing more, and to hell with the student body, the athletes and the alumni.


Are students and alums road tripping anywhere? I'm sure it would be a terrifying idea for many. Close proximity in cars/planes, mass spectator events, lodging. Seems so scary....Phobias aside, only a tiny number have enough interest in the product to attend home games, nevermind traveling across time zones.

This is many years in the (un)making. Turn off the lights and close the door. It's done.

Not everyone is living in fear of being in close proximity to others. Some of us even embrace it.
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bledblue
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In reply to Banzai • 12:11p, 7/3/22
Banzai said:
Well Cal has made no attempt at all to bring fans to Memorial Stadium. The sound system does not work, the east side is still stuck firmly in the 1930s, and for our decades long tradition you fail to field a football program that is rarely better than a .500 team, feared by no one.

Yes the money problem with the stadium sucks, but that is all on you, not SC or UCLA.

I will still buy season tickets as I have for many years, even if I am the only one there. Stop the blame game. You should have fixed your own home first.


For Cal, it's the story of too little, too late! The rest of the country has always questioned our commitment to being successful in football and basketball. They see the idiocracy with Covid, the refusal of allowing College Gameday, the stadium protest and all other Berkeley wackyness and wonder why bother. We have had a few eras of success, and the administration NEVER capitalized on it. They've used football as an ATM for the Olympic sports, always making sure there was an equality amongst football and everyone else. These are things that competitive departments don't do. They do not care about the national championships of rugby/waterpolo. This is 90% about football, and that's why no one is talking about adding us to the BIG even though we're in the #6 media market. If by some crazy chance they add 4 more PAC-12 schools, we will be extremely lucky.
Our best hope is that they form a league with the best of the PAC/BIG 12 and try to be competitive. If we're successful in that league, maybe we make the cut if the big two choose to expand again in the future, or if they ever decide to drop their mediocre programs. Will Cal commit to it? I doubt it! Carol/Jim have already shunned being an NIL participant school. They want to compete on their own terms, which is crazy.
So ask yourself, do we actually deserve to be there based on the decisions our AD has made over the last 30yrs? In reality, we are looking at a serious up hill battle!
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PaulCali
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In reply to Banzai • 12:24p, 7/3/22
@Banzai

We spent hundreds of millions on a stadium renovation, but we still have Port-a-Potties for the entire east side of stadium. Kind of hilarious. People shake their heads.
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Gobears49
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12:42p, 7/3/22
I wrote a comment sent to me on Bear Insider concerning "The Future of Cal Athletics hangs in the balance." Later I checked back and found it was never posted on Bear Insider but the original memo was from Football Growls, or something like that. I did sent my comment to Cal AD Jim Knowlton.

If the invitation to write something about the current Pac 12 controversy was sent to me as a Bear Insider subscriber, why wasn't my reply posted on Football Growls? Thanks.

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BigDaddy
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12:52p, 7/3/22
The UC Regents have signed off on UCLA to the B1G. Why would the state legislature step in? Why punish UCLA for Cal's financial incompetence? The UC Regents are already letting it be known that they do not consider UCLA's conference affiliation to fall under their mandate or purview. UCLA also has financial troubles, which will be cleared up immediately following the announcement of the next B1G media rights deal.

As for Christ and Knowlton, you could not have a worse combo running point on this. The power brokers who are behind the USC/UCLA move... B1G commissioner Kevin Warren, Fox Sports CEO Eric Shanks, former USC trustee and billionaire mega donor Rick Caruso... will continue to run circles around Cal leadership.

“My tastes are simple; I am easily satisfied with the best.” - Winston Churchill
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Grrrrah76
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12:55p, 7/3/22
i cant see the feasibility of ucla and usc sending their minor sports teams cross country on a regular basis to compete. It makes no sense. Look for the development of two major leagues with regions split up into divisions, along with a new playfoff system. Fox and ESPN are not going to write off half of the west coast.
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bluehenbear
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12:57p, 7/3/22
What, bankman-fried not going to save us?
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Gobears49
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12:58p, 7/3/22
See my comment just above but was not posed on Bear Insider. I sent a copy of it to Jim Knowlton this morning. It contains some practical suggestions to preserve the Pac 12 relating to adding two teams to it, along with the reasons for doing that.




I'd say investigate how Cal and its brethren Pac 12 schools would fare financially if it could convince Oregon and Washington to stay in the Pac 12 and add the two very attractive football teams from the Mountain West Conference, San Diego St. and Boise St., into the Pac 12 Conference. They would be fun and perhaps new places for Cal fans to visit over a weekend while rooting on their Bears.

I believe these two teams are the best teams that could be added to the Pac 12 from the standpoint of having outstanding recent football histories, from the standpoint of being fun places to visit, as well as being fairly close to existing Pac 12 teams geographically. Adding them would result in almost the same conference geographic size as before, making it feasible to retain all of the existing non-football sports offered by the Pac 12 as before, if desired. Those two cities have have existing flight schedules to almost all of the cities that would exist in a revised Pac 12 I have set forth and perhaps new flights could be added by an airline company to fill any existing gaps.

In that way, the Pac 12 can still survive as a Power Five school and hopefully will still be allowed to potentially compete in the football national championship as before, especially if that playoff is extended to eight teams.

I think both San Diego St. and Boise State would accept an invitation to join the ten remaining Pac 12 schools. It's worth a shot to give this a try.

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Rushinbear
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In reply to Northside91 • 1:00p, 7/3/22
Northside91 said:
MikeT said:
Honestly, I have mixed feelings on this. I'm a Cal alum, and I have so many great memories at Memorial Stadium, so it'd be sad to see the program wither away. On the other hand, I have to shake my head at the absurdity of this talk of demanding that Cal be in a conference with the likes of Michigan and Ohio State. At that point, we're so far removed from the original mission of college sports (recreation for the student body, as players and fans). When I was a student at Cal, a road trip to the L.A. Coliseum or up to Eugene wasn't out of the question. No Cal students are road-tripping to Ann Arbor or Columbus in the middle of October. Hell, few alumni care to do that either. This is about the money and nothing more, and to hell with the student body, the athletes and the alumni.


Are students and alums road tripping anywhere? I'm sure it would be a terrifying idea for many. Close proximity in cars/planes, mass spectator events, lodging. Seems so scary....Phobias aside, only a tiny number have enough interest in the product to attend home games, nevermind traveling across time zones.

This is many years in the (un)making. Turn off the lights and close the door. It's done.
At one time, rugby was THE contact sport. Looks like it might be again.
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Big Dog
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1:16p, 7/3/22
"I urge all of you to reach out to your State Assembly and Senate Representatives.."

The Legislature won't care one whit. The Governor, OTOH, has higher aspirations after his reelection in November. No way he wants a state bond default on his watch.
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Northside91
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In reply to Cal_79 • 1:57p, 7/3/22
You, me and 8 others with a BMI under 26. But remember, it makes us evil.
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aowatson
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7:30p, 7/3/22
Best route is to stop pretending. Cal's predicament is a result of half-assed commitments to football and basketball, trying to do just enough to appear to belong in the big leagues. It's been a slow decline over maybe 50 years, save a few stars like Muncie, Rodgers. I think I'd rather see a bold move to emphasize academics. Stanford, as a private school, could probably talk its way into the Ivy League. Could Cal? Harvard's basketball and swim teams aren't bad.
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Out Of The Past
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In reply to aowatson • 8:30p, 7/3/22
aowatson said:
Best route is to stop pretending. Cal's predicament is a result of half-assed commitments to football and basketball, trying to do just enough to appear to belong in the big leagues. It's been a slow decline over maybe 50 years, save a few stars like Muncie, Rodgers. I think I'd rather see a bold move to emphasize academics. Stanford, as a private school, could probably talk its way into the Ivy League. Could Cal? Harvard's basketball and swim teams aren't bad.
This seems the most logical extension to me as well. We already recruit some athletes that are also considering Ivy schools. I don't see Cal spending anywhere near the amount that would be required to challenge the major football programs in the B10, or bending academic requirements any further to admit more talent at the B10 level. Our academic reputation is already solid in the Ivies. From what I hear anecdotally, Cal sends a significant number of undergrads to Ivy grad schools. Go with our strength. I have attended Ivy games, found them exciting and really enjoyable. Game strategies frequently involve improvisation. Outcomes are not ordained. Watch "Harvard beats Yale 29 - 29" sometime.
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gardenstatebear
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In reply to Out Of The Past • 8:38p, 7/3/22
Out Of The Past said:
aowatson said:
Best route is to stop pretending. Cal's predicament is a result of half-assed commitments to football and basketball, trying to do just enough to appear to belong in the big leagues. It's been a slow decline over maybe 50 years, save a few stars like Muncie, Rodgers. I think I'd rather see a bold move to emphasize academics. Stanford, as a private school, could probably talk its way into the Ivy League. Could Cal? Harvard's basketball and swim teams aren't bad.
This seems the most logical extension to me as well. We already recruit some athletes that are also considering Ivy schools. Our academic reputation is already solid in the Ivies. From what I hear anecdotally, Cal sends a significant number of undergrads to Ivy grad schools. I have attended Ivy games, found them exciting and really enjoyable. Game strategies frequently involve improvisation. Watch "Harvard beats Yale 29 - 29" sometime.
The problem is that Cal is so big -- our undergraduate enrollment exceeds all the Ivies put together -- and while I can see Cal fans being excited by playing the best Ivy League teams, the bad ones are pretty bad.That long trip to the Northeast -- the most southern Ivy school is in Philadelphia -- won't be any fun for travel; remember that flying east is harder on the circadian clock than flying west. Stanford, though, is a logical candidate for the Ivies, and if the Ivies want Stanford, they'll want a second West Coast school too. It might as well be us. Whatever we lose in quality of competition, we'd gain even more prestige -- and we'd be able to keep the Big Game in conference.
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Big Dog
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9:01p, 7/3/22
In what universe do some of you think that the Ivy League wants to expand? And across three time zones? They refuse to participate in the FCS tourney, so as not to lose more class time. The Ivy League is comprised of 8 private schools -- yeah Cornell has a few state-supported contract colleges -- a bus-ride away from each other. They have zero desire or need to expand, nor do they want teh extra travel expense.

Where are those critical thinking skills that Cal grads are known for?

If the four-corner schools jump to the B12, which they certainly should, the Pac is done. At best, the Pac becomes a division of the Mountain West. If Cal cannot continue to compete at the "highest level", time to seriously think about going the U-Chicago route (and put the stadium debt on the Governor).

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BearoutEast67
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10:05p, 7/3/22
There'd be more than a few Berkeley Hills Neighborhood folks and anti-athletics faculty who'd be shaking with glee if Cal just rolled over and gave up.
Not gonna happen! The Bear will not quit! The Bear will not die! The Cal administration has played nice way too long and needs to become aggressive and cagey in this fight to remain relevant. See the Regents lack of action as hypocrisy and push past the false constraints of developing both football and men's basketball into the money makers that they could be.

There won't be enough revenue in a watered down PAC-12. It's time to move.

And let's win the last Rose Bowl!
Donate to Cal's NIL at https://calegends.com/donation/
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calumnus
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In reply to Big Dog • 10:32p, 7/3/22
Big Dog said:
In what universe do some of you think that the Ivy League wants to expand? And across three time zones? They refuse to participate in the FCS tourney, so as not to lose more class time. The Ivy League is comprised of 8 private schools -- yeah Cornell has a few state-supported contract colleges -- a bus-ride away from each other. They have zero desire or need to expand, nor do they want teh extra travel expense.

Where are those critical thinking skills that Cal grads are known for?

If the four-corner schools jump to the B12, which they certainly should, the Pac is done. At best, the Pac becomes a division of the Mountain West. If Cal cannot continue to compete at the "highest level", time to seriously think about going the U-Chicago route (and put the stadium debt on the Governor).



The Ivies are not anything if not tradition. They have maintained their island while the rest of the college football world went scholarship and big money. They aren't changing their island now.
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Big Dog
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In reply to calumnus • 6:36a, 7/4/22
calumnus said:
Big Dog said:
In what universe do some of you think that the Ivy League wants to expand? And across three time zones? They refuse to participate in the FCS tourney, so as not to lose more class time. The Ivy League is comprised of 8 private schools -- yeah Cornell has a few state-supported contract colleges -- a bus-ride away from each other. They have zero desire or need to expand, nor do they want teh extra travel expense.

Where are those critical thinking skills that Cal grads are known for?

If the four-corner schools jump to the B12, which they certainly should, the Pac is done. At best, the Pac becomes a division of the Mountain West. If Cal cannot continue to compete at the "highest level", time to seriously think about going the U-Chicago route (and put the stadium debt on the Governor).



The Ivies are not anything if not tradition. They have maintained their island while the rest of the college football world went scholarship and big money. They aren't changing their island now.
Nor do they have to, since they fund their athletic programs out of multi-billion dollar endowments. They don't rely on TV revenues.
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pasadenaorbust
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6:45a, 7/4/22
This whole seedy scenario reminds me of this scene...



Except the B1G didn't give the rest of the Pac 12 "time to think it over."
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Rushinbear
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In reply to Out Of The Past • 7:04a, 7/4/22
Out Of The Past said:
aowatson said:
Best route is to stop pretending. Cal's predicament is a result of half-assed commitments to football and basketball, trying to do just enough to appear to belong in the big leagues. It's been a slow decline over maybe 50 years, save a few stars like Muncie, Rodgers. I think I'd rather see a bold move to emphasize academics. Stanford, as a private school, could probably talk its way into the Ivy League. Could Cal? Harvard's basketball and swim teams aren't bad.
This seems the most logical extension to me as well. We already recruit some athletes that are also considering Ivy schools. I don't see Cal spending anywhere near the amount that would be required to challenge the major football programs in the B10, or bending academic requirements any further to admit more talent at the B10 level. Our academic reputation is already solid in the Ivies. From what I hear anecdotally, Cal sends a significant number of undergrads to Ivy grad schools. Go with our strength. I have attended Ivy games, found them exciting and really enjoyable. Game strategies frequently involve improvisation. Outcomes are not ordained. Watch "Harvard beats Yale 29 - 29" sometime.
Ivy fb is terrible. Looks like glorified hs. Players are 2* and coaches are, too. I don't enjoy seeing a wr drop an easy one and hang his head as he trots back to the huddle while 2,000 fans groan. (Remember the AZ game? Hated to say it, but the truth is the truth).
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concordtom
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In reply to Rushinbear • 8:12a, 7/4/22
Rushinbear said:
Out Of The Past said:
aowatson said:
Best route is to stop pretending. Cal's predicament is a result of half-assed commitments to football and basketball, trying to do just enough to appear to belong in the big leagues. It's been a slow decline over maybe 50 years, save a few stars like Muncie, Rodgers. I think I'd rather see a bold move to emphasize academics. Stanford, as a private school, could probably talk its way into the Ivy League. Could Cal? Harvard's basketball and swim teams aren't bad.
This seems the most logical extension to me as well. We already recruit some athletes that are also considering Ivy schools. I don't see Cal spending anywhere near the amount that would be required to challenge the major football programs in the B10, or bending academic requirements any further to admit more talent at the B10 level. Our academic reputation is already solid in the Ivies. From what I hear anecdotally, Cal sends a significant number of undergrads to Ivy grad schools. Go with our strength. I have attended Ivy games, found them exciting and really enjoyable. Game strategies frequently involve improvisation. Outcomes are not ordained. Watch "Harvard beats Yale 29 - 29" sometime.
Ivy fb is terrible. Looks like glorified hs. Players are 2* and coaches are, too. I don't enjoy seeing a wr drop an easy one and hang his head as he trots back to the huddle while 2,000 fans groan. (Remember the AZ game? Hated to say it, but the truth is the truth).

Yo, that's a BS post!
My grandmother's brothers were all Americans at Ohio State in the 30's. They weighed a buck 80.
They had packed stadiums.

There's plenty of fun to be had watching 2* athletes compete.
The whole FOMO factor here is astonishing.
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Boot
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In reply to Rushinbear • 8:17a, 7/4/22
Ivy football is entertaining you're telling me Cal vs Sac State is better?
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In reply to concordtom • 8:20a, 7/4/22
concordtom said:
Rushinbear said:
Out Of The Past said:
aowatson said:
Best route is to stop pretending. Cal's predicament is a result of half-assed commitments to football and basketball, trying to do just enough to appear to belong in the big leagues. It's been a slow decline over maybe 50 years, save a few stars like Muncie, Rodgers. I think I'd rather see a bold move to emphasize academics. Stanford, as a private school, could probably talk its way into the Ivy League. Could Cal? Harvard's basketball and swim teams aren't bad.
This seems the most logical extension to me as well. We already recruit some athletes that are also considering Ivy schools. I don't see Cal spending anywhere near the amount that would be required to challenge the major football programs in the B10, or bending academic requirements any further to admit more talent at the B10 level. Our academic reputation is already solid in the Ivies. From what I hear anecdotally, Cal sends a significant number of undergrads to Ivy grad schools. Go with our strength. I have attended Ivy games, found them exciting and really enjoyable. Game strategies frequently involve improvisation. Outcomes are not ordained. Watch "Harvard beats Yale 29 - 29" sometime.
Ivy fb is terrible. Looks like glorified hs. Players are 2* and coaches are, too. I don't enjoy seeing a wr drop an easy one and hang his head as he trots back to the huddle while 2,000 fans groan. (Remember the AZ game? Hated to say it, but the truth is the truth).

Yo, that's a BS post!
My grandmother's brothers were all Americans at Ohio State in the 30's. They weighed a buck 80.
They had packed stadiums.

There's plenty of fun to be had watching 2* athletes compete.
The whole FOMO factor here is astonishing.
We're discussing the viability of a major college athletics program. That requires $$$ and the tv and in person fans who pay to see them. When you pay, you expect to get what you pay for. To old Ivy alums, that means barely watching, as you yuk it up in the stands or do business there. Most others expect a little more.
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concordtom
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In reply to 4thGenCal • 8:21a, 7/4/22
4thGenCal said:
socaliganbear said:
MikeT said:
Honestly, I have mixed feelings on this. I'm a Cal alum, and I have so many great memories at Memorial Stadium, so it'd be sad to see the program wither away. On the other hand, I have to shake my head at the absurdity of this talk of demanding that Cal be in a conference with the likes of Michigan and Ohio State. At that point, we're so far removed from the original mission of college sports (recreation for the student body, as players and fans). When I was a student at Cal, a road trip to the L.A. Coliseum or up to Eugene wasn't out of the question. No Cal students are road-tripping to Ann Arbor or Columbus in the middle of October. Hell, few alumni care to do that either. This is about the money and nothing more, and to hell with the student body, the athletes and the alumni.
I feel pretty confident in speculating that students, and alumni alike would be more excited to travel to these destinations over Tucson, Corvalis, Pullman. I'd sure make the trip.
Totally agree - Tennessee, Ole Miss trips fun and having been to the Big House, and Neb stadiums - its an awesome experience. If Cal can't get into the B10, Alum/fan support, donor support and overall college experience for the majority of students will decline - even if there remains a watered down Pac12.
it's amazing how hundreds of non power5 universities are filled with students who have a great experiences and which matriculate hundreds of thousands annually.
Have you even been to a NHBC? Or a P-Rade in Princeton?
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Gobears49
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8:21a, 7/4/22
Traveling cross country to play against very watered down Ivy League football seems not to make any sense, for all schools. The Ivy's will certainly not want to fly west to play Cal and Stanford. They do everything they can to get as much class time as possible and traveling across the country would reduce that.

Cal should try to play in a revised Pac 12, which will still be a Power 5 conference, that includes very, very good SDSU and Boise State teams. It would allow non-football athletics to continue, as the geographic area of the revised Pac 12 will be very, very close to what it was before. And Cal could then play in some very good bowls, the ones they qualified to play in since last playing in the Rose Bowl in 1959. Maybe they could participate in a national playoff if that was expanded to eight teams instead of the current four.
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concordtom
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In reply to Rushinbear • 8:26a, 7/4/22
Rushinbear said:
concordtom said:
Rushinbear said:
Out Of The Past said:
aowatson said:
Best route is to stop pretending. Cal's predicament is a result of half-assed commitments to football and basketball, trying to do just enough to appear to belong in the big leagues. It's been a slow decline over maybe 50 years, save a few stars like Muncie, Rodgers. I think I'd rather see a bold move to emphasize academics. Stanford, as a private school, could probably talk its way into the Ivy League. Could Cal? Harvard's basketball and swim teams aren't bad.
This seems the most logical extension to me as well. We already recruit some athletes that are also considering Ivy schools. I don't see Cal spending anywhere near the amount that would be required to challenge the major football programs in the B10, or bending academic requirements any further to admit more talent at the B10 level. Our academic reputation is already solid in the Ivies. From what I hear anecdotally, Cal sends a significant number of undergrads to Ivy grad schools. Go with our strength. I have attended Ivy games, found them exciting and really enjoyable. Game strategies frequently involve improvisation. Outcomes are not ordained. Watch "Harvard beats Yale 29 - 29" sometime.
Ivy fb is terrible. Looks like glorified hs. Players are 2* and coaches are, too. I don't enjoy seeing a wr drop an easy one and hang his head as he trots back to the huddle while 2,000 fans groan. (Remember the AZ game? Hated to say it, but the truth is the truth).

Yo, that's a BS post!
My grandmother's brothers were all Americans at Ohio State in the 30's. They weighed a buck 80.
They had packed stadiums.

There's plenty of fun to be had watching 2* athletes compete.
The whole FOMO factor here is astonishing.
We're discussing the viability of a major college athletics program. That requires $$$ and the tv and in person fans who pay to see them. When you pay, you expect to get what you pay for. To old Ivy alums, that means barely watching, as you yuk it up in the stands or do business there. Most others expect a little more.

Like I said: FOMO.

I'm just pointing out that the arms race in college football is ABSURD, and everyone knows it!
At some point, it's okay to back away from the bar. Homey don't need to play that game.

If you want to create a different reality, someone needs to do so.

The Ivys did, and they seem to be having a lot of fun "yuking it up", as you say - while everyone else frets over being passed over.

Create your own damn reality!
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CALiforniALUM
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In reply to PaulCali • 8:49a, 7/4/22
PaulCali said:
@Banzai

We spent hundreds of millions on a stadium renovation, but we still have Port-a-Potties for the entire east side of stadium. Kind of hilarious. People shake their heads.
Cal fans are old and drink too much through their eyeballs. A few Port-a-Potties only help.
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