Big loss...
Tui to Rice as OC per football scoop...
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Last: 3 yr ago by GivemTheAxe
Why a "Big loss"? I'm not saying it is not. I'm just curious why someone would think it is. Is he "just another replaceable assistant" or is he a key component on the staff? In other words, all assistants are equal but some are more equal than others. Where does Tui fit on this scale?DWM81 said:
Big loss...
replaceable
Will know with whom soon enough
Will know with whom soon enough
Harborview
experienced likable guy who was close to Wilcox. Good with recruitng, especially with Pacific Islanders.71Bear said:Why a "Big loss"? I'm not saying it is not. I'm just curious why someone would think it is. Is he "just another replaceable assistant" or is he a key component on the staff? In other words, all assistants are equal but some are more equal than others. Where does Tui fit on this scale?DWM81 said:
Big loss...
He was a high salary as his resume warranted. Frees up salary for a good young talented TE coach and retention of coaches like Browning. As far as I can tell, the Cal staff has upped its game on recruiting and I see this as an expected loss (with Tui's resume, someone was going to make him an OC). Vote at the end of the day: replaceable.
Agreed it is the normal evolution of a football staff.
Reallocation of the salary budget rewards the remaining deserving staff and still allows the recruitment of another emerging coaching talent.
Reallocation of the salary budget rewards the remaining deserving staff and still allows the recruitment of another emerging coaching talent.
Harborview
Agreed, WIAF. I like Tui personally and he has done a pretty good job recruiting the last couple years but I don't view him as irreplaceable, and it may free up some salary for Browning, Toler and/or others. Go Bears!!
The testing continues for Wilcox. He still hasn't passed the 'winning league record' test but the 'backfilling your initial staff ' test is almost as important. I still can't get over how Tedford's staff deteriorated with every new hire.
I agree with the "replaceable" assessment. While I don't believe that he represented a deficiency in the staff, he wasn't elite as either a coach or recruiter. While I guess a promotion is a promotion, Rice, while an excellent school, has one of the most glaring records of futility in college football. Yes, we've had our tough stretches as well, but Cal is not Rice. I fear he's in for some tough sledding. Plus, and I realize this is a personal peeve, it's in Houston. I've traveled there on business many times, and I struggle to find nice things to say about the place or it's surroundings. Wait'll Tui gets a load of July and August.
In general, in any business, institution, or organization, when your competitors come after your staff, that means that they're seen as valuable. I think it speaks well of Wilcox that his staff members appear to be sought after, and as mentioned, he'll be tested by his ability to not simply replace, but upgrade, when openings arise. In general, I think he's done a reasonably good job at that. So far. Given the significant percentage of his staff that are heading into their first season at Cal, we're about to see more clearly how well he's able to do so. I realize it's a long shot, but I'd love to see Troy Taylor convinced to come home to Cal. I think he'd be an ideal hire for this position, and that his talents and acumen would spill over into other areas of the program in addition to his specific coaching responsibilities.
In general, in any business, institution, or organization, when your competitors come after your staff, that means that they're seen as valuable. I think it speaks well of Wilcox that his staff members appear to be sought after, and as mentioned, he'll be tested by his ability to not simply replace, but upgrade, when openings arise. In general, I think he's done a reasonably good job at that. So far. Given the significant percentage of his staff that are heading into their first season at Cal, we're about to see more clearly how well he's able to do so. I realize it's a long shot, but I'd love to see Troy Taylor convinced to come home to Cal. I think he'd be an ideal hire for this position, and that his talents and acumen would spill over into other areas of the program in addition to his specific coaching responsibilities.
Marty said:
I agree with the "replaceable" assessment. While I don't believe that he represented a deficiency in the staff, he wasn't elite as either a coach or recruiter. While I guess a promotion is a promotion, Rice, while an excellent school, has one of the most glaring records of futility in college football. Yes, we've had our tough stretches as well, but Cal is not Rice. I fear he's in for some tough sledding. Plus, and I realize this is a personal peeve, it's in Houston. I've traveled there on business many times, and I struggle to find nice things to say about the place or it's surroundings. Wait'll Tui gets a load of July and August.
In general, in any business, institution, or organization, when your competitors come after your staff, that means that they're seen as valuable. I think it speaks well of Wilcox that his staff members appear to be sought after, and as mentioned, he'll be tested by his ability to not simply replace, but upgrade, when openings arise. In general, I think he's done a reasonably good job at that. So far. Given the significant percentage of his staff that are heading into their first season at Cal, we're about to see more clearly how well he's able to do so. I realize it's a long shot, but I'd love to see Troy Taylor convinced to come home to Cal. I think he'd be an ideal hire for this position, and that his talents and acumen would spill over into other areas of the program in addition to his specific coaching responsibilities.
Troy's next stop is a HC gig, not as an OC. He's done that at Utah, and why he left to become a HC at Sacramento State. He wants to make the next jump, not a jump back to a job he already has done in the PAC 12.
Here's another take. Troy is already home having gone to highschool in Sacramento. He a big fish in a small pond but if he wants a bigger pond, he could do worse than be a SUCCESSFUL OC at power 5 School. Successful translates into championship caliber offenses against top competition.
Alkiadt said:Marty said:
I agree with the "replaceable" assessment. While I don't believe that he represented a deficiency in the staff, he wasn't elite as either a coach or recruiter. While I guess a promotion is a promotion, Rice, while an excellent school, has one of the most glaring records of futility in college football. Yes, we've had our tough stretches as well, but Cal is not Rice. I fear he's in for some tough sledding. Plus, and I realize this is a personal peeve, it's in Houston. I've traveled there on business many times, and I struggle to find nice things to say about the place or it's surroundings. Wait'll Tui gets a load of July and August.
In general, in any business, institution, or organization, when your competitors come after your staff, that means that they're seen as valuable. I think it speaks well of Wilcox that his staff members appear to be sought after, and as mentioned, he'll be tested by his ability to not simply replace, but upgrade, when openings arise. In general, I think he's done a reasonably good job at that. So far. Given the significant percentage of his staff that are heading into their first season at Cal, we're about to see more clearly how well he's able to do so. I realize it's a long shot, but I'd love to see Troy Taylor convinced to come home to Cal. I think he'd be an ideal hire for this position, and that his talents and acumen would spill over into other areas of the program in addition to his specific coaching responsibilities.
Troy's next stop is a HC gig, not as an OC. He's done that at Utah, and why he left to become a HC at Sacramento State. He wants to make the next jump, not a jump back to a job he already has done in the PAC 12.
Besides, Tui was not our OC, that job is not open. Taylor is not leaving a HC job to be a position coach.
Marty said:
Plus, and I realize this is a personal peeve, it's in Houston. I've traveled there on business many times, and I struggle to find nice things to say about the place or it's surroundings. Wait'll Tui gets a load of July and August.
Or the rainy season. I went to Houston on business when it was raining. I had my windshield wipers running on full blast but could still just barely see through the flood on my windshield. That wasn't even hurricane season!
Then there's driving on the Loop. Good luck to anyone who gets stuck in that traffic!
01Bear said:Marty said:
Plus, and I realize this is a personal peeve, it's in Houston. I've traveled there on business many times, and I struggle to find nice things to say about the place or it's surroundings. Wait'll Tui gets a load of July and August.
Or the rainy season. I went to Houston on business when it was raining. I had my windshield wipers running on full blast but could still just barely see through the flood on my windshield. That wasn't even hurricane season!
Then there's driving on the Loop. Good luck to anyone who gets stuck in that traffic!
Worst part is all the Texans!
Six inches of snow in The Woodlands today.
Ahem. Some of us loyal Bears live in Texas.dimitrig said:01Bear said:Marty said:
Plus, and I realize this is a personal peeve, it's in Houston. I've traveled there on business many times, and I struggle to find nice things to say about the place or it's surroundings. Wait'll Tui gets a load of July and August.
Or the rainy season. I went to Houston on business when it was raining. I had my windshield wipers running on full blast but could still just barely see through the flood on my windshield. That wasn't even hurricane season!
Then there's driving on the Loop. Good luck to anyone who gets stuck in that traffic!
Worst part is all the Texans!
It's making its way toward Houston.Bobodeluxe said:
Six inches of snow in The Woodlands today.
This thread is under intense dissection over at a (the?) Rice football board. They are now our Eskimo brothers.
Nothing wrong with Texans. They are great people, as you'd know if you had ever spent any significant time there.dimitrig said:01Bear said:Marty said:
Plus, and I realize this is a personal peeve, it's in Houston. I've traveled there on business many times, and I struggle to find nice things to say about the place or it's surroundings. Wait'll Tui gets a load of July and August.
Or the rainy season. I went to Houston on business when it was raining. I had my windshield wipers running on full blast but could still just barely see through the flood on my windshield. That wasn't even hurricane season!
Then there's driving on the Loop. Good luck to anyone who gets stuck in that traffic!
Worst part is all the Texans!
Golden One said:Nothing wrong with Texans. They are great people, as you'd know if you had ever spent any significant time there.dimitrig said:01Bear said:Marty said:
Plus, and I realize this is a personal peeve, it's in Houston. I've traveled there on business many times, and I struggle to find nice things to say about the place or it's surroundings. Wait'll Tui gets a load of July and August.
Or the rainy season. I went to Houston on business when it was raining. I had my windshield wipers running on full blast but could still just barely see through the flood on my windshield. That wasn't even hurricane season!
Then there's driving on the Loop. Good luck to anyone who gets stuck in that traffic!
Worst part is all the Texans!
I lived in Arlington for four years as a kid and even learned to speak English there. By and large, I found Texans to be friendly. I traveled back to Texas for work as an adult, and the same held true.
That said, there are always bound to be outliers. Of course, that friendliness goes out the window where football is concerned.
01Bear said:Golden One said:Nothing wrong with Texans. They are great people, as you'd know if you had ever spent any significant time there.dimitrig said:01Bear said:Marty said:
Plus, and I realize this is a personal peeve, it's in Houston. I've traveled there on business many times, and I struggle to find nice things to say about the place or it's surroundings. Wait'll Tui gets a load of July and August.
Or the rainy season. I went to Houston on business when it was raining. I had my windshield wipers running on full blast but could still just barely see through the flood on my windshield. That wasn't even hurricane season!
Then there's driving on the Loop. Good luck to anyone who gets stuck in that traffic!
Worst part is all the Texans!
I lived in Arlington for four years as a kid and even learned to speak English there. By and large, I found Texans to be friendly. I traveled back to Texas for work as an adult, and the same held true.
That said, there are always bound to be outliers. Of course, that friendliness goes out the window where football is concerned.
Texans apparently have thin skin!
dimitrig said:01Bear said:Golden One said:Nothing wrong with Texans. They are great people, as you'd know if you had ever spent any significant time there.dimitrig said:01Bear said:Marty said:
Plus, and I realize this is a personal peeve, it's in Houston. I've traveled there on business many times, and I struggle to find nice things to say about the place or it's surroundings. Wait'll Tui gets a load of July and August.
Or the rainy season. I went to Houston on business when it was raining. I had my windshield wipers running on full blast but could still just barely see through the flood on my windshield. That wasn't even hurricane season!
Then there's driving on the Loop. Good luck to anyone who gets stuck in that traffic!
Worst part is all the Texans!
I lived in Arlington for four years as a kid and even learned to speak English there. By and large, I found Texans to be friendly. I traveled back to Texas for work as an adult, and the same held true.
That said, there are always bound to be outliers. Of course, that friendliness goes out the window where football is concerned.
Texans apparently have thin skin!
In Texas, as in much of the South, football is religion!
I feel this is a loss on the recruiting side but on the coaching side not so much. While at Cal he was demoted from QB coach to TE coach. Nothing about that change can have a positive spin to it. But yeah recruiting could suffer from this.
Congrats to Tui! Great opportunity for him. As for us, let's see who Wilcox/Musgrave hires before we decide if it is a win or a loss.
The "assignment switch" can't be overlooked, but the change is better for both. We get $$ freed up and he gets to give it a try in a place where he can't lose. He gets to see what it's like to get what you wish. We get to inject new blood.UrsineMaximus said:
I feel this is a loss on the recruiting side but on the coaching side not so much. While at Cal he was demoted from QB coach to TE coach. Nothing about that change can have a positive spin to it. But yeah recruiting could suffer from this.
You mean, a place where he can't win. Good luck to him; though Rice is not a program that typically helps a coach's career. As an example, the guy Tui is replacing as OC is leaving not to become a coordinator elsewhere, but to become the running backs coach at Tennessee.Rushinbear said:The "assignment switch" can't be overlooked, but the change is better for both. We get $$ freed up and he gets to give it a try in a place where he can't lose. He gets to see what it's like to get what you wish. We get to inject new blood.UrsineMaximus said:
I feel this is a loss on the recruiting side but on the coaching side not so much. While at Cal he was demoted from QB coach to TE coach. Nothing about that change can have a positive spin to it. But yeah recruiting could suffer from this.
BearSD said:You mean, a place where he can't win. Good luck to him; though Rice is not a program that typically helps a coach's career. As an example, the guy Tui is replacing as OC is leaving not to become a coordinator elsewhere, but to become the running backs coach at Tennessee.Rushinbear said:The "assignment switch" can't be overlooked, but the change is better for both. We get $$ freed up and he gets to give it a try in a place where he can't lose. He gets to see what it's like to get what you wish. We get to inject new blood.UrsineMaximus said:
I feel this is a loss on the recruiting side but on the coaching side not so much. While at Cal he was demoted from QB coach to TE coach. Nothing about that change can have a positive spin to it. But yeah recruiting could suffer from this.
Seems like this is the path Tui has to take to become a playcaller. Are there better G5 locations than Rice? Sure... But if the former Rice OC can get a position coach job at a P5 school, the Tui certainly can go back to that level with his rep/experience.
Can't see the current HC there being around for more than 1-2 years if their record doesn't improve. Tui might make a better HC than coordinator if there's an opening.
Gets his feet wet as an OC and anything he accomplishes can be to his good. Try out stuff he's been meaning to try - system, plays, recruiting, you name it. Does he care what others haven't been able to do?BearSD said:You mean, a place where he can't win. Good luck to him; though Rice is not a program that typically helps a coach's career. As an example, the guy Tui is replacing as OC is leaving not to become a coordinator elsewhere, but to become the running backs coach at Tennessee.Rushinbear said:The "assignment switch" can't be overlooked, but the change is better for both. We get $$ freed up and he gets to give it a try in a place where he can't lose. He gets to see what it's like to get what you wish. We get to inject new blood.UrsineMaximus said:
I feel this is a loss on the recruiting side but on the coaching side not so much. While at Cal he was demoted from QB coach to TE coach. Nothing about that change can have a positive spin to it. But yeah recruiting could suffer from this.
Well, there are over 27 million Texans, and no reason to assume they are any better or worse than Californians. I will say that based on my experience working with Houston people in the energy and tech sectors, that at least the Houston culture emphasizes job-hoppers who look out for #1. The Houstonians I worked with invariably valued a flashy Powerpoint deck over actually getting the real work done, and left a pile of messes when they jumped ship for the next job.Golden One said:Nothing wrong with Texans. They are great people, as you'd know if you had ever spent any significant time there.dimitrig said:01Bear said:Marty said:
Plus, and I realize this is a personal peeve, it's in Houston. I've traveled there on business many times, and I struggle to find nice things to say about the place or it's surroundings. Wait'll Tui gets a load of July and August.
Or the rainy season. I went to Houston on business when it was raining. I had my windshield wipers running on full blast but could still just barely see through the flood on my windshield. That wasn't even hurricane season!
Then there's driving on the Loop. Good luck to anyone who gets stuck in that traffic!
Worst part is all the Texans!
Well, I had a very different experience. I lived in Houston for 17 years, while working in the energy industry. I found Texans to be very friendly, kind, approachable, and hospitable. I'm a native Californian who has spent most of my life in California and now live in the state. Although I hate to generalize, I must say that the the typical Texan is more friendly and down to earth than the typical California.HearstMining said:Well, there are over 27 million Texans, and no reason to assume they are any better or worse than Californians. I will say that based on my experience working with Houston people in the energy and tech sectors, that at least the Houston culture emphasizes job-hoppers who look out for #1. The Houstonians I worked with invariably valued a flashy Powerpoint deck over actually getting the real work done, and left a pile of messes when they jumped ship for the next job.Golden One said:Nothing wrong with Texans. They are great people, as you'd know if you had ever spent any significant time there.dimitrig said:01Bear said:Marty said:
Plus, and I realize this is a personal peeve, it's in Houston. I've traveled there on business many times, and I struggle to find nice things to say about the place or it's surroundings. Wait'll Tui gets a load of July and August.
Or the rainy season. I went to Houston on business when it was raining. I had my windshield wipers running on full blast but could still just barely see through the flood on my windshield. That wasn't even hurricane season!
Then there's driving on the Loop. Good luck to anyone who gets stuck in that traffic!
Worst part is all the Texans!
Funny to read this - have a friend who moved to Nashville who said the EXACT same thing about Tenneseans versus Californians yesterday; and said it was one of the most notable differences between the two. Be interesting to see how this whole WFM/"California exodus' shakes out...Golden One said:Well, I had a very different experience. I lived in Houston for 17 years, while working in the energy industry. I found Texans to be very friendly, kind, approachable, and hospitable. I'm a native Californian who has spent most of my life in California and now live in the state. Although I hate to generalize, I must say that the the typical Texan is more friendly and down to earth than the typical California.HearstMining said:Well, there are over 27 million Texans, and no reason to assume they are any better or worse than Californians. I will say that based on my experience working with Houston people in the energy and tech sectors, that at least the Houston culture emphasizes job-hoppers who look out for #1. The Houstonians I worked with invariably valued a flashy Powerpoint deck over actually getting the real work done, and left a pile of messes when they jumped ship for the next job.Golden One said:Nothing wrong with Texans. They are great people, as you'd know if you had ever spent any significant time there.dimitrig said:01Bear said:Marty said:
Plus, and I realize this is a personal peeve, it's in Houston. I've traveled there on business many times, and I struggle to find nice things to say about the place or it's surroundings. Wait'll Tui gets a load of July and August.
Or the rainy season. I went to Houston on business when it was raining. I had my windshield wipers running on full blast but could still just barely see through the flood on my windshield. That wasn't even hurricane season!
Then there's driving on the Loop. Good luck to anyone who gets stuck in that traffic!
Worst part is all the Texans!
SmellinRoses said:Funny to read this - have a friend who moved to Nashville who said the EXACT same thing about Tenneseans versus Californians yesterday; and said it was one of the most notable differences between the two. Be interesting to see how this whole WFM/"California exodus' shakes out...Golden One said:Well, I had a very different experience. I lived in Houston for 17 years, while working in the energy industry. I found Texans to be very friendly, kind, approachable, and hospitable. I'm a native Californian who has spent most of my life in California and now live in the state. Although I hate to generalize, I must say that the the typical Texan is more friendly and down to earth than the typical California.HearstMining said:Well, there are over 27 million Texans, and no reason to assume they are any better or worse than Californians. I will say that based on my experience working with Houston people in the energy and tech sectors, that at least the Houston culture emphasizes job-hoppers who look out for #1. The Houstonians I worked with invariably valued a flashy Powerpoint deck over actually getting the real work done, and left a pile of messes when they jumped ship for the next job.Golden One said:Nothing wrong with Texans. They are great people, as you'd know if you had ever spent any significant time there.dimitrig said:01Bear said:Marty said:
Plus, and I realize this is a personal peeve, it's in Houston. I've traveled there on business many times, and I struggle to find nice things to say about the place or it's surroundings. Wait'll Tui gets a load of July and August.
Or the rainy season. I went to Houston on business when it was raining. I had my windshield wipers running on full blast but could still just barely see through the flood on my windshield. That wasn't even hurricane season!
Then there's driving on the Loop. Good luck to anyone who gets stuck in that traffic!
Worst part is all the Texans!
Here's a hint to people who think Southerners are more friendly:
"Bless your heart" is an insult
SmellinRoses said:Funny to read this - have a friend who moved to Nashville who said the EXACT same thing about Tenneseans versus Californians yesterday; and said it was one of the most notable differences between the two. Be interesting to see how this whole WFM/"California exodus' shakes out...Golden One said:Well, I had a very different experience. I lived in Houston for 17 years, while working in the energy industry. I found Texans to be very friendly, kind, approachable, and hospitable. I'm a native Californian who has spent most of my life in California and now live in the state. Although I hate to generalize, I must say that the the typical Texan is more friendly and down to earth than the typical California.HearstMining said:Well, there are over 27 million Texans, and no reason to assume they are any better or worse than Californians. I will say that based on my experience working with Houston people in the energy and tech sectors, that at least the Houston culture emphasizes job-hoppers who look out for #1. The Houstonians I worked with invariably valued a flashy Powerpoint deck over actually getting the real work done, and left a pile of messes when they jumped ship for the next job.Golden One said:Nothing wrong with Texans. They are great people, as you'd know if you had ever spent any significant time there.dimitrig said:01Bear said:Marty said:
Plus, and I realize this is a personal peeve, it's in Houston. I've traveled there on business many times, and I struggle to find nice things to say about the place or it's surroundings. Wait'll Tui gets a load of July and August.
Or the rainy season. I went to Houston on business when it was raining. I had my windshield wipers running on full blast but could still just barely see through the flood on my windshield. That wasn't even hurricane season!
Then there's driving on the Loop. Good luck to anyone who gets stuck in that traffic!
Worst part is all the Texans!
Everyone expressing their views on this thread might be correct ( from their perspective).
I have lived most of my life in Northern California. But I have spent time in NYC, Northern and Eastern NJ. Rural eastern PA, WDC, Indiana, Tacoma WA.
And every Summer since 1986 I have driven cross country stopping overnight at many tourist sites talking to the residents along the way in places from NYC to SF; from LA to WDC and Atlanta, from Quebec to Miami and from Ottawa to San Antonio.
As a 6 foot tall, brown, polite and well-spoken Latino I have seen and heard both the good and the bad across this country. Every place has its advantages and disadvantages. Every place has its good people and it's bigots (some out in the open and some hiding).
Big cities breed strangers (remember the classic sociological study (The Lonely Crowd).
Small towns can be more friendly (provided you fit in). But they are much more confining.
High paid occupations breed highly competitive individuals (whether in NYC, WDC, Atlanta, Houston, Dallas, Seattle or LA).
Some people believe CA is over regulated and in part they are right. Some people believe other places are under regulated and in part they are right.(Contaminated water supplies not just in Detroit but in rural PA and Appalachia. Homes built on flood plains in Texas. Homes built in areas where oil refineries and oil wells in OK and TX.
Every one has to choose their own fit.
CA built the 6th Greatest economy in the world based upon things such as a great educational system. CA also has the weather and amenities that make it a great place to live. But so many people came to CA that it changed the state. Bringing with them overcrowding and the need for greater regulation.
Maybe it's not a bad thing that some people are leaving and reducing the overcrowding.
For me, every summer when I get back to CA I am thankful to be back. Not just for the weather and amenities but also because of its diversity. It is the only place in the US (other than NYC) where I am not made to feel "brown" the minute I step outside my door residence.
Every place is different and has its own politeness rules. I don't want a pie from my neighbor when I move in and I have no intention of giving one when they move in. I do watch out for their house when they are on vacation and they watch out for mine. We've all watched each other kids in emergencies and pets when on short trips. "Friendly" is how you define it.GivemTheAxe said:SmellinRoses said:Funny to read this - have a friend who moved to Nashville who said the EXACT same thing about Tenneseans versus Californians yesterday; and said it was one of the most notable differences between the two. Be interesting to see how this whole WFM/"California exodus' shakes out...Golden One said:Well, I had a very different experience. I lived in Houston for 17 years, while working in the energy industry. I found Texans to be very friendly, kind, approachable, and hospitable. I'm a native Californian who has spent most of my life in California and now live in the state. Although I hate to generalize, I must say that the the typical Texan is more friendly and down to earth than the typical California.HearstMining said:Well, there are over 27 million Texans, and no reason to assume they are any better or worse than Californians. I will say that based on my experience working with Houston people in the energy and tech sectors, that at least the Houston culture emphasizes job-hoppers who look out for #1. The Houstonians I worked with invariably valued a flashy Powerpoint deck over actually getting the real work done, and left a pile of messes when they jumped ship for the next job.Golden One said:Nothing wrong with Texans. They are great people, as you'd know if you had ever spent any significant time there.dimitrig said:01Bear said:Marty said:
Plus, and I realize this is a personal peeve, it's in Houston. I've traveled there on business many times, and I struggle to find nice things to say about the place or it's surroundings. Wait'll Tui gets a load of July and August.
Or the rainy season. I went to Houston on business when it was raining. I had my windshield wipers running on full blast but could still just barely see through the flood on my windshield. That wasn't even hurricane season!
Then there's driving on the Loop. Good luck to anyone who gets stuck in that traffic!
Worst part is all the Texans!
Everyone expressing their views on this thread might be correct ( from their perspective).
I have lived most of my life in Northern California. But I have spent time in NYC, Northern and Eastern NJ. Rural eastern PA, WDC, Indiana, Tacoma WA.
And every Summer since 1986 I have driven cross country stopping overnight at many tourist sites talking to the residents along the way in places from NYC to SF; from LA to WDC and Atlanta, from Quebec to Miami and from Ottawa to San Antonio.
As a 6 foot tall, brown, polite and well-spoken Latino I have seen and heard both the good and the bad across this country. Every place has its advantages and disadvantages. Every place has its good people and it's bigots (some out in the open and some hiding).
Big cities breed strangers (remember the classic sociological study (The Lonely Crowd).
Small towns can be more friendly (provided you fit in). But they are much more confining.
High paid occupations breed highly competitive individuals (whether in NYC, WDC, Atlanta, Houston, Dallas, Seattle or LA).
Some people believe CA is over regulated and in part they are right. Some people believe other places are under regulated and in part they are right.(Contaminated water supplies not just in Detroit but in rural PA and Appalachia. Homes built on flood plains in Texas. Homes built in areas where oil refineries and oil wells in OK and TX.
Every one has to choose their own fit.
CA built the 6th Greatest economy in the world based upon things such as a great educational system. CA also has the weather and amenities that make it a great place to live. But so many people came to CA that it changed the state. Bringing with them overcrowding and the need for greater regulation.
Maybe it's not a bad thing that some people are leaving and reducing the overcrowding.
For me, every summer when I get back to CA I am thankful to be back. Not just for the weather and amenities but also because of its diversity. It is the only place in the US (other than NYC) where I am not made to feel "brown" the minute I step outside my door residence.
And in some cases the supposedly friendly places have substantially different levels of friendliness depending on who you are.
But the bottom line is as you say everyone has to choose their own fit.
OaktownBear said:Every place is different and has its own politeness rules. I don't want a pie from my neighbor when I move in and I have no intention of giving one when they move in. I do watch out for their house when they are on vacation and they watch out for mine. We've all watched each other kids in emergencies and pets when on short trips. "Friendly" is how you define it.GivemTheAxe said:SmellinRoses said:Funny to read this - have a friend who moved to Nashville who said the EXACT same thing about Tenneseans versus Californians yesterday; and said it was one of the most notable differences between the two. Be interesting to see how this whole WFM/"California exodus' shakes out...Golden One said:Well, I had a very different experience. I lived in Houston for 17 years, while working in the energy industry. I found Texans to be very friendly, kind, approachable, and hospitable. I'm a native Californian who has spent most of my life in California and now live in the state. Although I hate to generalize, I must say that the the typical Texan is more friendly and down to earth than the typical California.HearstMining said:Well, there are over 27 million Texans, and no reason to assume they are any better or worse than Californians. I will say that based on my experience working with Houston people in the energy and tech sectors, that at least the Houston culture emphasizes job-hoppers who look out for #1. The Houstonians I worked with invariably valued a flashy Powerpoint deck over actually getting the real work done, and left a pile of messes when they jumped ship for the next job.Golden One said:Nothing wrong with Texans. They are great people, as you'd know if you had ever spent any significant time there.dimitrig said:01Bear said:Marty said:
Plus, and I realize this is a personal peeve, it's in Houston. I've traveled there on business many times, and I struggle to find nice things to say about the place or it's surroundings. Wait'll Tui gets a load of July and August.
Or the rainy season. I went to Houston on business when it was raining. I had my windshield wipers running on full blast but could still just barely see through the flood on my windshield. That wasn't even hurricane season!
Then there's driving on the Loop. Good luck to anyone who gets stuck in that traffic!
Worst part is all the Texans!
Everyone expressing their views on this thread might be correct ( from their perspective).
I have lived most of my life in Northern California. But I have spent time in NYC, Northern and Eastern NJ. Rural eastern PA, WDC, Indiana, Tacoma WA.
And every Summer since 1986 I have driven cross country stopping overnight at many tourist sites talking to the residents along the way in places from NYC to SF; from LA to WDC and Atlanta, from Quebec to Miami and from Ottawa to San Antonio.
As a 6 foot tall, brown, polite and well-spoken Latino I have seen and heard both the good and the bad across this country. Every place has its advantages and disadvantages. Every place has its good people and it's bigots (some out in the open and some hiding).
Big cities breed strangers (remember the classic sociological study (The Lonely Crowd).
Small towns can be more friendly (provided you fit in). But they are much more confining.
High paid occupations breed highly competitive individuals (whether in NYC, WDC, Atlanta, Houston, Dallas, Seattle or LA).
Some people believe CA is over regulated and in part they are right. Some people believe other places are under regulated and in part they are right.(Contaminated water supplies not just in Detroit but in rural PA and Appalachia. Homes built on flood plains in Texas. Homes built in areas where oil refineries and oil wells in OK and TX.
Every one has to choose their own fit.
CA built the 6th Greatest economy in the world based upon things such as a great educational system. CA also has the weather and amenities that make it a great place to live. But so many people came to CA that it changed the state. Bringing with them overcrowding and the need for greater regulation.
Maybe it's not a bad thing that some people are leaving and reducing the overcrowding.
For me, every summer when I get back to CA I am thankful to be back. Not just for the weather and amenities but also because of its diversity. It is the only place in the US (other than NYC) where I am not made to feel "brown" the minute I step outside my door residence.
And in some cases the supposedly friendly places have substantially different levels of friendliness depending on who you are.
But the bottom line is as you say everyone has to choose their own fit.
The news today adds additional factors that should be considered: the very sad tragedy that is occurring in Texas.
It has been reported that the Texas energy grid has collapsed for a reason that was predicted 10 years ago. The Texas Energy grid collapsed because the entire Grid was not winterized to deal with severe cold weather.
Texas had a similar problem 10 years ago during a similar cold spell. Experts recommended back then that steps should be been taken to winterize the Grid; and It was predicted that, otherwise, the Texas Grid would collapse. But appropriate steps were not taken because Texas politics do not favor Big Government imposing mandates on businesses.
Yes CA sometimes goes overboard on regulations. But many times those regulations can protect the safety and lives of CA residents. Small government/low taxes are policies that sound great to those who hate California's big government/high taxes. But small government/low taxes come at a great price that is harder to quantify but is all too real.
BTW Texas authorities tried to blame the Grid
collapse on the failure of wind tubing that have been installed over the past 10 year despite the fact that (1) wind turbines provide less than 5% of Texas energy and (2) wind turbines do not stop if they are properly winterized as they are in Scandinavia.
To make matters worse for Texas, Polar Vortexes like the one that is responsible for the current storm are projected to increase in the future due to Climate Change.
GivemTheAxe said:OaktownBear said:Every place is different and has its own politeness rules. I don't want a pie from my neighbor when I move in and I have no intention of giving one when they move in. I do watch out for their house when they are on vacation and they watch out for mine. We've all watched each other kids in emergencies and pets when on short trips. "Friendly" is how you define it.GivemTheAxe said:SmellinRoses said:Funny to read this - have a friend who moved to Nashville who said the EXACT same thing about Tenneseans versus Californians yesterday; and said it was one of the most notable differences between the two. Be interesting to see how this whole WFM/"California exodus' shakes out...Golden One said:Well, I had a very different experience. I lived in Houston for 17 years, while working in the energy industry. I found Texans to be very friendly, kind, approachable, and hospitable. I'm a native Californian who has spent most of my life in California and now live in the state. Although I hate to generalize, I must say that the the typical Texan is more friendly and down to earth than the typical California.HearstMining said:Well, there are over 27 million Texans, and no reason to assume they are any better or worse than Californians. I will say that based on my experience working with Houston people in the energy and tech sectors, that at least the Houston culture emphasizes job-hoppers who look out for #1. The Houstonians I worked with invariably valued a flashy Powerpoint deck over actually getting the real work done, and left a pile of messes when they jumped ship for the next job.Golden One said:Nothing wrong with Texans. They are great people, as you'd know if you had ever spent any significant time there.dimitrig said:01Bear said:Marty said:
Plus, and I realize this is a personal peeve, it's in Houston. I've traveled there on business many times, and I struggle to find nice things to say about the place or it's surroundings. Wait'll Tui gets a load of July and August.
Or the rainy season. I went to Houston on business when it was raining. I had my windshield wipers running on full blast but could still just barely see through the flood on my windshield. That wasn't even hurricane season!
Then there's driving on the Loop. Good luck to anyone who gets stuck in that traffic!
Worst part is all the Texans!
Everyone expressing their views on this thread might be correct ( from their perspective).
I have lived most of my life in Northern California. But I have spent time in NYC, Northern and Eastern NJ. Rural eastern PA, WDC, Indiana, Tacoma WA.
And every Summer since 1986 I have driven cross country stopping overnight at many tourist sites talking to the residents along the way in places from NYC to SF; from LA to WDC and Atlanta, from Quebec to Miami and from Ottawa to San Antonio.
As a 6 foot tall, brown, polite and well-spoken Latino I have seen and heard both the good and the bad across this country. Every place has its advantages and disadvantages. Every place has its good people and it's bigots (some out in the open and some hiding).
Big cities breed strangers (remember the classic sociological study (The Lonely Crowd).
Small towns can be more friendly (provided you fit in). But they are much more confining.
High paid occupations breed highly competitive individuals (whether in NYC, WDC, Atlanta, Houston, Dallas, Seattle or LA).
Some people believe CA is over regulated and in part they are right. Some people believe other places are under regulated and in part they are right.(Contaminated water supplies not just in Detroit but in rural PA and Appalachia. Homes built on flood plains in Texas. Homes built in areas where oil refineries and oil wells in OK and TX.
Every one has to choose their own fit.
CA built the 6th Greatest economy in the world based upon things such as a great educational system. CA also has the weather and amenities that make it a great place to live. But so many people came to CA that it changed the state. Bringing with them overcrowding and the need for greater regulation.
Maybe it's not a bad thing that some people are leaving and reducing the overcrowding.
For me, every summer when I get back to CA I am thankful to be back. Not just for the weather and amenities but also because of its diversity. It is the only place in the US (other than NYC) where I am not made to feel "brown" the minute I step outside my door residence.
And in some cases the supposedly friendly places have substantially different levels of friendliness depending on who you are.
But the bottom line is as you say everyone has to choose their own fit.
The news today adds additional factors that should be considered: the very sad tragedy that is occurring in Texas.
It has been reported that the Texas energy grid has collapsed for a reason that was predicted 10 years ago. The Texas Energy grid collapsed because the entire Grid was not winterized to deal with severe cold weather.
Texas had a similar problem 10 years ago during a similar cold spell. Experts recommended back then that steps should be been taken to winterize the Grid; and It was predicted that, otherwise, the Texas Grid would collapse. But appropriate steps were not taken because Texas politics do not favor Big Government imposing mandates on businesses.
Yes CA sometimes goes overboard on regulations. But many times those regulations can protect the safety and lives of CA residents. Small government/low taxes are policies that sound great to those who hate California's big government/high taxes. But small government/low taxes come at a great price that is harder to quantify but is all too real.
BTW Texas authorities tried to blame the Grid
collapse on the failure of wind tubing that have been installed over the past 10 year despite the fact that (1) wind turbines provide less than 5% of Texas energy and (2) wind turbines do not stop if they are properly winterized as they are in Scandinavia.
To make matters worse for Texas, Polar Vortexes like the one that is responsible for the current storm are projected to increase in the future due to Climate Change.
Polar vortexes are a product of the melting of polar ice (it is above freezing in the Artic). Once all the ice is melted the vortexes will stop and temperatures will start increasing sharply.
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