"parity"

heartofthebear said:

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OaktownBear said:

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heartofthebear said:

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sycasey said:

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OaktownBear said:

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6. Jealous of the 49ers? What the hell do they have for ANYONE to be jealous of?

---

Come on, they are clearly one of the most successful NFL franchises historically (5 Super Bowl wins). They went to the Super Bowl the season before last. Plenty of fanbases would love to have that kind of record.

---

It used to be that the Raiders were a big part of marketing for the NFL. Now I'd say that that is true of the 49ers. They sell the NFL better than most teams. If you are going to have a primetime game on your network your better off with

• 49ers
• GB
• Dallas
• Pittsburgh
• LA Rams
• NE
• NO
• Seattle
• KC
• TB --currently

Of course there are non team-specific factors that are important like matchups, rivalries, whose winning at the time and star power. But, all things being equal, the 49ers are one of 10 teams the nation wants to see (regardless of love or hate). The Raiders were 1 of 10 back in the day. Now they are one of the last teams you want to see.

Back in the day (when the Raiders were winning SBs), the Raiders were the face of the NFL along with:

• Cowboys
• Vikings
• Denver
• Rams
• Miami
• Pittsburgh
• Houston (Oilers)
• San Diego
• Philadelphia

From an ownership standpoint there also has been a big flip. Al Davis from the 50s-80s was a big reason why the Raiders could be referred to as the winningest team in football. From the 80s on, Davis' age and declining health, including mental health, was reflected in the team's steady decline. In the meantime, SF thrived under the spend happy Debartolo regime.

In the 90s both teams had periods decline and success. The 49ers struggled to maintain the same standard after Eddie was forced to hand ownership over to his sister and brother in law. The York regime made a lot of mistakes and still struggles to get back to the level under Eddie. In the meantime, Al Davis' son, Mark has had equal struggles. The difference is that, over the last 2 decades, the York's seem to be able to learn from their mistakes, eventually. For example, they finally have put in place a well respected and classy administration that is developing a culture where relationships matter. Mark Davis, on the other, does not seem to learn much from his mistakes, although I think his move to LV may end up being a smart one.

Over the coming years, I have a lot more faith that the 49ers will continue to improve as an organization, whereas I don't see any chance of that happening with the Raiders under Mark Davis.

BTW, as much as the 49ers gave up to get Lance, it will never be any where near the over-reach the Raiders made to get Gruden. I don't know how much the Raiders have payed Gruden for each of his wins, but it has to be close to a million dollars.

---

You can say what you think is true based on truthiness and gut feel or you can actually look up data. Ratings by team:

Average 2020 NFL National TV Ratings By Team
Dallas Cowboys 19.3m
New Orleans Saints 18.3m
Tampa Bay Buccaneers 18.3m
Seattle Seahawks 17.5m
Las Vegas Raiders 17.1m
Pittsburgh Steelers 16.8m
New England Patriots 16.2m
Kansas City Chiefs 16m
San Francisco 49ers 16m
Green Bay Packers 15.5m
Baltimore Ravens 14.9m
Chicago Bears 14.9m
Los Angeles Chargers 14.8m
Philadelphia Eagles 14m
Los Angeles Rams 14m
Buffalo Bills 13.9m
New York Giants 13.9m
Minnesota Vikings 13.3m
Arizona Cardinals 12.8m
Indianapolis Colts 12.2m
Carolina Panthers 11.7m
Atlanta Falcons 10.2m
Tennessee Titans 10.2m
New York Jets 7.6m
Denver Broncos 6.6m
Miami Dolphins 5.4m
Jacksonville Jaguars 5.4m

The 49er ownership has been a disaster since Debartolo left.
Mark Davis is a disaster of an owner. And he got someone else to build a stadium for him that is a million times better than the one York paid for.

As for success, that is easy to measure because what you and I think doesn't make a bit of difference. Luckily they play these things out on Sundays. Since Jed drove Harbaugh off, the 49ers are 36-60 (.375) and the Raiders are 44-52 (.458). The Raiders have had a better record 3 of the 6 years. The 49ers 1. They had the same record 2 years. The Raiders topped out at 12-4. The 49ers 13-3. By wins and losses, the Raiders have done quite a bit better, but I'll give you that the one year the 49ers didn't suck, they went to the Superbowl.

Your comment about the reach on Gruden is just silly. Yes, they absolutely paid too much for Gruden. I wouldn't have done it. But what you pay a coach has almost no impact on how competitive you can be. The Raiders' ownership has to pay $6.5M more per year for a coach than the 49ers. No question that is much better value for the 49ers. But, so what? I guarantee you any team would easily pay much much more cash for the draft picks the 49ers gave up for Lance if they were to become available for cash, which no team would do because they are worth more than cash. There is no way Gruden's salary is a bigger reach than a #3, 2 first round picks, and a fourth round pick, for Lance. Not even close.

Let me explain something. The 49ers and their fans all think they are competitive for the Superbowl next year because they think injuries took them out of it this year. Okay. So wouldn't your goal be to MAKE THIS YEAR'S TEAM BETTER? You have a good, not great, but good QB. Wouldn't you want to shore up the holes you have right now and make a run? Like, for instance, in a draft that is heavy with talented DB's, one of your weakest areas, MAYBE SPEND YOUR #12 ON A DB WHO CAN COME IN AND HELP RIGHT NOW?!?!?! Instead you pick a guy who cannot help you this year. And you give up a pick that could help you next year. And you give up a pick that could help you the year after that. They have significantly wounded their chance to make a run in the next two years for a guy who is a complete dice roll. Further, they are completely overreacting to Jimmy G's injury. Injuries happen to everyone. This is not a trend. He started over 3 and a half years in college without getting injured. He is a proven commodity.

I'll make this prediction. Jimmy G. will have a better season in 2022 than any of the QB's available to the 49ers at 3 (or Jets at 2). Which means they were stupid to not just keep him and pick a corner at 12. Mac Jones will have a better season in 2022 than Lance. Which means they were stupid if they did not want to pick a corner, not just to keep the number 12, pick Jones, and build around him with the two picks they would still have.

---

I agree with a lot of what you said about the 49ers draft this season. It's been an absolute disaster. I don't know how you pick Banks in round #2 and give up a great deal for Serman in round #3. There was so much first round talent available in positions of need (CB, OT, WR) in both cases.

There are only 2 things that can possibly justify what SF did:

• They are planning to run the ball exclusively.
• They have extremely high standards regarding intangibles and these 2 guys were a couple of the few that matches those standards.

I do think that Lynch is trying to build a family atmosphere, and I respect that. Despite what you say about the comparison between the 2 teams statistically, the culture is completely different. Players want to play in SF again for a reason. Guys come and go out of LV all of the time. They rarely keep their best players for any length of time (3 years or more), Carr being the notable exception. It's so ironic because Carr is the guy they should have let go of years ago. Statistically there may be some similarities but the trajectory of these 2 clubs is completely different.

There is one thing both have in common and continue to have in common: The way they draft makes no sense to anyone. In the meantime their competitors (Arizona, Denver etc.) have significantly strengthened themselves.

Looking at this draft, the 2021 NFL season is going to be interesting. I think there is going to be more parody. And there will be very few bottom dwellers (maybe Houston and Detroit). Everyone else has a chance to be a playoff team and that includes NYJ, NYG, Atlanta, Carolina, Denver, Jacksonville & Cinci.

---

One can't call a draft either a smashing success or a total disaster until three years following the selections. I like what they have done so far. A QB with a very high ceiling, an OL mauler from my hometown of Alameda, a solid CB from Michigan and a skilled RB (a position with no one signed beyond the upcoming season). Will this bunch be successful? We will know in 2024.

And Round 5 is coming up (Lynch's secret weapon).........

71Bear said:

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heartofthebear said:

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OaktownBear said:

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heartofthebear said:

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sycasey said:

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OaktownBear said:

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6. Jealous of the 49ers? What the hell do they have for ANYONE to be jealous of?

---

Come on, they are clearly one of the most successful NFL franchises historically (5 Super Bowl wins). They went to the Super Bowl the season before last. Plenty of fanbases would love to have that kind of record.

---

It used to be that the Raiders were a big part of marketing for the NFL. Now I'd say that that is true of the 49ers. They sell the NFL better than most teams. If you are going to have a primetime game on your network your better off with

• 49ers
• GB
• Dallas
• Pittsburgh
• LA Rams
• NE
• NO
• Seattle
• KC
• TB --currently

Of course there are non team-specific factors that are important like matchups, rivalries, whose winning at the time and star power. But, all things being equal, the 49ers are one of 10 teams the nation wants to see (regardless of love or hate). The Raiders were 1 of 10 back in the day. Now they are one of the last teams you want to see.

Back in the day (when the Raiders were winning SBs), the Raiders were the face of the NFL along with:

• Cowboys
• Vikings
• Denver
• Rams
• Miami
• Pittsburgh
• Houston (Oilers)
• San Diego
• Philadelphia

From an ownership standpoint there also has been a big flip. Al Davis from the 50s-80s was a big reason why the Raiders could be referred to as the winningest team in football. From the 80s on, Davis' age and declining health, including mental health, was reflected in the team's steady decline. In the meantime, SF thrived under the spend happy Debartolo regime.

In the 90s both teams had periods decline and success. The 49ers struggled to maintain the same standard after Eddie was forced to hand ownership over to his sister and brother in law. The York regime made a lot of mistakes and still struggles to get back to the level under Eddie. In the meantime, Al Davis' son, Mark has had equal struggles. The difference is that, over the last 2 decades, the York's seem to be able to learn from their mistakes, eventually. For example, they finally have put in place a well respected and classy administration that is developing a culture where relationships matter. Mark Davis, on the other, does not seem to learn much from his mistakes, although I think his move to LV may end up being a smart one.

Over the coming years, I have a lot more faith that the 49ers will continue to improve as an organization, whereas I don't see any chance of that happening with the Raiders under Mark Davis.

BTW, as much as the 49ers gave up to get Lance, it will never be any where near the over-reach the Raiders made to get Gruden. I don't know how much the Raiders have payed Gruden for each of his wins, but it has to be close to a million dollars.

---

You can say what you think is true based on truthiness and gut feel or you can actually look up data. Ratings by team:

Average 2020 NFL National TV Ratings By Team
Dallas Cowboys 19.3m
New Orleans Saints 18.3m
Tampa Bay Buccaneers 18.3m
Seattle Seahawks 17.5m
Las Vegas Raiders 17.1m
Pittsburgh Steelers 16.8m
New England Patriots 16.2m
Kansas City Chiefs 16m
San Francisco 49ers 16m
Green Bay Packers 15.5m
Baltimore Ravens 14.9m
Chicago Bears 14.9m
Los Angeles Chargers 14.8m
Philadelphia Eagles 14m
Los Angeles Rams 14m
Buffalo Bills 13.9m
New York Giants 13.9m
Minnesota Vikings 13.3m
Arizona Cardinals 12.8m
Indianapolis Colts 12.2m
Carolina Panthers 11.7m
Atlanta Falcons 10.2m
Tennessee Titans 10.2m
New York Jets 7.6m
Denver Broncos 6.6m
Miami Dolphins 5.4m
Jacksonville Jaguars 5.4m

The 49er ownership has been a disaster since Debartolo left.
Mark Davis is a disaster of an owner. And he got someone else to build a stadium for him that is a million times better than the one York paid for.

As for success, that is easy to measure because what you and I think doesn't make a bit of difference. Luckily they play these things out on Sundays. Since Jed drove Harbaugh off, the 49ers are 36-60 (.375) and the Raiders are 44-52 (.458). The Raiders have had a better record 3 of the 6 years. The 49ers 1. They had the same record 2 years. The Raiders topped out at 12-4. The 49ers 13-3. By wins and losses, the Raiders have done quite a bit better, but I'll give you that the one year the 49ers didn't suck, they went to the Superbowl.

Your comment about the reach on Gruden is just silly. Yes, they absolutely paid too much for Gruden. I wouldn't have done it. But what you pay a coach has almost no impact on how competitive you can be. The Raiders' ownership has to pay $6.5M more per year for a coach than the 49ers. No question that is much better value for the 49ers. But, so what? I guarantee you any team would easily pay much much more cash for the draft picks the 49ers gave up for Lance if they were to become available for cash, which no team would do because they are worth more than cash. There is no way Gruden's salary is a bigger reach than a #3, 2 first round picks, and a fourth round pick, for Lance. Not even close.

Let me explain something. The 49ers and their fans all think they are competitive for the Superbowl next year because they think injuries took them out of it this year. Okay. So wouldn't your goal be to MAKE THIS YEAR'S TEAM BETTER? You have a good, not great, but good QB. Wouldn't you want to shore up the holes you have right now and make a run? Like, for instance, in a draft that is heavy with talented DB's, one of your weakest areas, MAYBE SPEND YOUR #12 ON A DB WHO CAN COME IN AND HELP RIGHT NOW?!?!?! Instead you pick a guy who cannot help you this year. And you give up a pick that could help you next year. And you give up a pick that could help you the year after that. They have significantly wounded their chance to make a run in the next two years for a guy who is a complete dice roll. Further, they are completely overreacting to Jimmy G's injury. Injuries happen to everyone. This is not a trend. He started over 3 and a half years in college without getting injured. He is a proven commodity.

I'll make this prediction. Jimmy G. will have a better season in 2022 than any of the QB's available to the 49ers at 3 (or Jets at 2). Which means they were stupid to not just keep him and pick a corner at 12. Mac Jones will have a better season in 2022 than Lance. Which means they were stupid if they did not want to pick a corner, not just to keep the number 12, pick Jones, and build around him with the two picks they would still have.

---

I agree with a lot of what you said about the 49ers draft this season. It's been an absolute disaster. I don't know how you pick Banks in round #2 and give up a great deal for Serman in round #3. There was so much first round talent available in positions of need (CB, OT, WR) in both cases.

There are only 2 things that can possibly justify what SF did:

• They are planning to run the ball exclusively.
• They have extremely high standards regarding intangibles and these 2 guys were a couple of the few that matches those standards.

I do think that Lynch is trying to build a family atmosphere, and I respect that. Despite what you say about the comparison between the 2 teams statistically, the culture is completely different. Players want to play in SF again for a reason. Guys come and go out of LV all of the time. They rarely keep their best players for any length of time (3 years or more), Carr being the notable exception. It's so ironic because Carr is the guy they should have let go of years ago. Statistically there may be some similarities but the trajectory of these 2 clubs is completely different.

There is one thing both have in common and continue to have in common: The way they draft makes no sense to anyone. In the meantime their competitors (Arizona, Denver etc.) have significantly strengthened themselves.

Looking at this draft, the 2021 NFL season is going to be interesting. I think there is going to be more parody. And there will be very few bottom dwellers (maybe Houston and Detroit). Everyone else has a chance to be a playoff team and that includes NYJ, NYG, Atlanta, Carolina, Denver, Jacksonville & Cinci.

---

One can't call a draft either a smashing success or a total disaster until three years following the selections. I like what they have done so far. A QB with a very high ceiling, an OL mauler from my hometown of Alameda, a solid CB from Michigan and a skilled RB (a position with no one signed beyond the upcoming season). Will this bunch be successful? We will know in 2024.

And Round 5 is coming up (Lynch's secret weapon).........

---

Yeah, I don't understand how people can so confidently declare a draft successful or failed mere hours after the picks have been made. Again, we have no idea how good anyone is going to be.

joe amos yaks said:

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"parity"

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Are you sure? I've been reading through this whole thread and I think there's a good chance the poster meant "parody". If not, they probably should have.

Will be interesting to see what Shanahan does if Garoppolo stays healthy the entire 2021 season and leads the 49ers to a Superbowl Championship. Then, what does he do with Garoppolo and Lance after having given up all those high draft choices to get Lance?

Golden One said:

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Will be interesting to see what Shanahan does if Garoppolo stays healthy the entire 2021 season and leads the 49ers to a Superbowl Championship. Then, what does he do with Garoppolo and Lance after having given up all those high draft choices to get Lance?

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Montana/Young Two HOF
Farve/Rodgers Two HOF
Garoppolo/Lance Two HOF??

A nice problem to have...

how does Lance end of at South Dakota State?
here is some freshmen highlights

with his size, speed and arm, I'd think some D1 teams would have noticed???

sycasey said:

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71Bear said:

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heartofthebear said:

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OaktownBear said:

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heartofthebear said:

---

sycasey said:

---

OaktownBear said:

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6. Jealous of the 49ers? What the hell do they have for ANYONE to be jealous of?

---

Come on, they are clearly one of the most successful NFL franchises historically (5 Super Bowl wins). They went to the Super Bowl the season before last. Plenty of fanbases would love to have that kind of record.

---

It used to be that the Raiders were a big part of marketing for the NFL. Now I'd say that that is true of the 49ers. They sell the NFL better than most teams. If you are going to have a primetime game on your network your better off with

• 49ers
• GB
• Dallas
• Pittsburgh
• LA Rams
• NE
• NO
• Seattle
• KC
• TB --currently

Of course there are non team-specific factors that are important like matchups, rivalries, whose winning at the time and star power. But, all things being equal, the 49ers are one of 10 teams the nation wants to see (regardless of love or hate). The Raiders were 1 of 10 back in the day. Now they are one of the last teams you want to see.

Back in the day (when the Raiders were winning SBs), the Raiders were the face of the NFL along with:

• Cowboys
• Vikings
• Denver
• Rams
• Miami
• Pittsburgh
• Houston (Oilers)
• San Diego
• Philadelphia

From an ownership standpoint there also has been a big flip. Al Davis from the 50s-80s was a big reason why the Raiders could be referred to as the winningest team in football. From the 80s on, Davis' age and declining health, including mental health, was reflected in the team's steady decline. In the meantime, SF thrived under the spend happy Debartolo regime.

In the 90s both teams had periods decline and success. The 49ers struggled to maintain the same standard after Eddie was forced to hand ownership over to his sister and brother in law. The York regime made a lot of mistakes and still struggles to get back to the level under Eddie. In the meantime, Al Davis' son, Mark has had equal struggles. The difference is that, over the last 2 decades, the York's seem to be able to learn from their mistakes, eventually. For example, they finally have put in place a well respected and classy administration that is developing a culture where relationships matter. Mark Davis, on the other, does not seem to learn much from his mistakes, although I think his move to LV may end up being a smart one.

Over the coming years, I have a lot more faith that the 49ers will continue to improve as an organization, whereas I don't see any chance of that happening with the Raiders under Mark Davis.

BTW, as much as the 49ers gave up to get Lance, it will never be any where near the over-reach the Raiders made to get Gruden. I don't know how much the Raiders have payed Gruden for each of his wins, but it has to be close to a million dollars.

---

You can say what you think is true based on truthiness and gut feel or you can actually look up data. Ratings by team:

Average 2020 NFL National TV Ratings By Team
Dallas Cowboys 19.3m
New Orleans Saints 18.3m
Tampa Bay Buccaneers 18.3m
Seattle Seahawks 17.5m
Las Vegas Raiders 17.1m
Pittsburgh Steelers 16.8m
New England Patriots 16.2m
Kansas City Chiefs 16m
San Francisco 49ers 16m
Green Bay Packers 15.5m
Baltimore Ravens 14.9m
Chicago Bears 14.9m
Los Angeles Chargers 14.8m
Philadelphia Eagles 14m
Los Angeles Rams 14m
Buffalo Bills 13.9m
New York Giants 13.9m
Minnesota Vikings 13.3m
Arizona Cardinals 12.8m
Indianapolis Colts 12.2m
Carolina Panthers 11.7m
Atlanta Falcons 10.2m
Tennessee Titans 10.2m
New York Jets 7.6m
Denver Broncos 6.6m
Miami Dolphins 5.4m
Jacksonville Jaguars 5.4m

The 49er ownership has been a disaster since Debartolo left.
Mark Davis is a disaster of an owner. And he got someone else to build a stadium for him that is a million times better than the one York paid for.

As for success, that is easy to measure because what you and I think doesn't make a bit of difference. Luckily they play these things out on Sundays. Since Jed drove Harbaugh off, the 49ers are 36-60 (.375) and the Raiders are 44-52 (.458). The Raiders have had a better record 3 of the 6 years. The 49ers 1. They had the same record 2 years. The Raiders topped out at 12-4. The 49ers 13-3. By wins and losses, the Raiders have done quite a bit better, but I'll give you that the one year the 49ers didn't suck, they went to the Superbowl.

Your comment about the reach on Gruden is just silly. Yes, they absolutely paid too much for Gruden. I wouldn't have done it. But what you pay a coach has almost no impact on how competitive you can be. The Raiders' ownership has to pay $6.5M more per year for a coach than the 49ers. No question that is much better value for the 49ers. But, so what? I guarantee you any team would easily pay much much more cash for the draft picks the 49ers gave up for Lance if they were to become available for cash, which no team would do because they are worth more than cash. There is no way Gruden's salary is a bigger reach than a #3, 2 first round picks, and a fourth round pick, for Lance. Not even close.

Let me explain something. The 49ers and their fans all think they are competitive for the Superbowl next year because they think injuries took them out of it this year. Okay. So wouldn't your goal be to MAKE THIS YEAR'S TEAM BETTER? You have a good, not great, but good QB. Wouldn't you want to shore up the holes you have right now and make a run? Like, for instance, in a draft that is heavy with talented DB's, one of your weakest areas, MAYBE SPEND YOUR #12 ON A DB WHO CAN COME IN AND HELP RIGHT NOW?!?!?! Instead you pick a guy who cannot help you this year. And you give up a pick that could help you next year. And you give up a pick that could help you the year after that. They have significantly wounded their chance to make a run in the next two years for a guy who is a complete dice roll. Further, they are completely overreacting to Jimmy G's injury. Injuries happen to everyone. This is not a trend. He started over 3 and a half years in college without getting injured. He is a proven commodity.

I'll make this prediction. Jimmy G. will have a better season in 2022 than any of the QB's available to the 49ers at 3 (or Jets at 2). Which means they were stupid to not just keep him and pick a corner at 12. Mac Jones will have a better season in 2022 than Lance. Which means they were stupid if they did not want to pick a corner, not just to keep the number 12, pick Jones, and build around him with the two picks they would still have.

---

I agree with a lot of what you said about the 49ers draft this season. It's been an absolute disaster. I don't know how you pick Banks in round #2 and give up a great deal for Serman in round #3. There was so much first round talent available in positions of need (CB, OT, WR) in both cases.

There are only 2 things that can possibly justify what SF did:

• They are planning to run the ball exclusively.
• They have extremely high standards regarding intangibles and these 2 guys were a couple of the few that matches those standards.

I do think that Lynch is trying to build a family atmosphere, and I respect that. Despite what you say about the comparison between the 2 teams statistically, the culture is completely different. Players want to play in SF again for a reason. Guys come and go out of LV all of the time. They rarely keep their best players for any length of time (3 years or more), Carr being the notable exception. It's so ironic because Carr is the guy they should have let go of years ago. Statistically there may be some similarities but the trajectory of these 2 clubs is completely different.

There is one thing both have in common and continue to have in common: The way they draft makes no sense to anyone. In the meantime their competitors (Arizona, Denver etc.) have significantly strengthened themselves.

Looking at this draft, the 2021 NFL season is going to be interesting. I think there is going to be more parody. And there will be very few bottom dwellers (maybe Houston and Detroit). Everyone else has a chance to be a playoff team and that includes NYJ, NYG, Atlanta, Carolina, Denver, Jacksonville & Cinci.

---

One can't call a draft either a smashing success or a total disaster until three years following the selections. I like what they have done so far. A QB with a very high ceiling, an OL mauler from my hometown of Alameda, a solid CB from Michigan and a skilled RB (a position with no one signed beyond the upcoming season). Will this bunch be successful? We will know in 2024.

And Round 5 is coming up (Lynch's secret weapon).........

---

Yeah, I don't understand how people can so confidently declare a draft successful or failed mere hours after the picks have been made. Again, we have no idea how good anyone is going to be.

---

It's not the players. It's the positions. They took 2 RBs, a position of depth for them. They took 0 WRs, a position that they may need more depth in if Hurd can't return. The draft was deep and talented at WR. They needed more help at OT than IOL because of Mike M's pass pro. liabilities and because they bolstered the interior with Mack. but they took an IOL instead. Clearly they needed more help at DB because they took 3 of them. But they waited until really late to do it, instead trading up to take Serman at an unreasonable cost. That's my assessment.

Don't get me wrong. The 49ers have an infinitely greater ability to evaluate players than I do. And clearly the media and the fans have a much different way of seeing players than do most NFL teams. But all of the above things together leaves me scratching my head. And it is not like the 49ers haven't blown drafts before. They really don't have a great track record there in the past decade or so. Of course they have had their Kittles and Samuels but, compared to what was available and what they passed up, the 49er draft history has proven to be subpar.

Essentially, the success of the 49ers is largely due to their coaching and their FA signings. If they could draft half as well as those things...LOOK OUT!

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but the interior OL has been problematic the past 2 years. Jimmy G got pressured up the middle during the SB and also got injured off a missed block up the middle last season. Mike M's pass protection was definitely problematic last season, but was it the year before? I don't recall it being an issue in past years, but I'm not 100% sure. Maybe they're confident he can put on weight and fix his issues.

Last year's draft, they needed CBs and didn't get any. So they did it in this draft.

I was definitely surprised by the drafting of two RBs, but as they said, you sometimes just have to pick the best player available vs trying to fill a need. This also works out as an effort to manage the cap for next season. They're not going to keep all of those FA RBs who become free agents after next season.

Don't forget they also had Travis Benjamin as a WR that opted out last season. They had signed him as a FA.

joe amos yaks said:

---

"parity"

---

thanks

philbert said:

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I don't necessarily disagree with you, but the interior OL has been problematic the past 2 years. Jimmy G got pressured up the middle during the SB and also got injured off a missed block up the middle last season. Mike M's pass protection was definitely problematic last season, but was it the year before? I don't recall it being an issue in past years, but I'm not 100% sure. Maybe they're confident he can put on weight and fix his issues.

Last year's draft, they needed CBs and didn't get any. So they did it in this draft.

I was definitely surprised by the drafting of two RBs, but as they said, you sometimes just have to pick the best player available vs trying to fill a need. This also works out as an effort to manage the cap for next season. They're not going to keep all of those FA RBs who become free agents after next season.

Don't forget they also had Travis Benjamin as a WR that opted out last season. They had signed him as a FA.

---

If they were picking the "best available" they were evaluating differently than pretty much everybody else out there. Pretty much all of their talent was rated at least one round below where they took it by almost everybody. In the meantime, and equally amazingly, a lot of talent dropped to them but they refused to take it.

I'm not saying that I'm right and they are wrong. I'm saying that I don't understand it. And, if we are all being honest, I don't think any of us understand it.

Again, the 49ers draft history has not been great. Sure we can't judge what they did this year yet. But maybe their past history is a predictor of future events. I credit Shanahan and Lynch for the culture that they have created and they may be simply more innovative than most teams. So, I am not tearing my hair out. But it is worth noting, even at this early date, that their picks are significantly off from what anyone (media expert or fan) would expect.

Even they admitted that they hoped to get CB Adebo but he was gone by that time. So, apparently Sermon was so important to them that they were willing to sacrifice that goal. But Serman was rated below a ton of other backs still on the board at that point.

I guess the 49ers have a bias against Furd.

71Bear said:

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Golden One said:

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Will be interesting to see what Shanahan does if Garoppolo stays healthy the entire 2021 season and leads the 49ers to a Superbowl Championship. Then, what does he do with Garoppolo and Lance after having given up all those high draft choices to get Lance?

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Montana/Young Two HOF
Farve/Rodgers Two HOF
Garoppolo/Lance Two HOF??

A nice problem to have...

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True, but Garoppolo is a lot younger than either Montana or Favre were when Young and Rodgers were added to the roster. Garoppolo should have about 10 years left in his NFL career at this point.

Stanford Jonah said:

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The ownership has gotten better since Shanahan and Lynch were hired. Prior to that, they were the ownership that gave 49er fans Mike Singletary and whoever that defensive line coach was for a year that I've already forgotten (Jim ?).

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You're thinking of Jim Tomsula. The Niners have had a string of horrible head coaches since Mariucci: Dennis Erickson, Mike Nolan, Mike Singletary, Jim Tomsula, and Chip Kelly. Only Jim Harbaugh broke the awful string.

Stanford Jonah said:

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Golden One said:

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Will be interesting to see what Shanahan does if Garoppolo stays healthy the entire 2021 season and leads the 49ers to a Superbowl Championship. Then, what does he do with Garoppolo and Lance after having given up all those high draft choices to get Lance?

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I think it's safe to say that won't be happening.

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I wouldn't bet the house on that. If the OL is halfway decent this season, the rest of the team is strong enough to be a Superbowl contender with even decent quarterbacking. And a healthy Garoppolo has proven he can be a decent, if not spectacular, QB.

Well, I'll never bash a team because their draft board is different from the experts like Kiper. I mean, Mike Mayock was one of those draft experts and it doesn't seem like his scouting and draft boards have improved the Raiders drafting at all. But I'd just add that many RBs don't fit in Shanahan's zone running scheme. On the other hand, that Utah RB they got in 2017 barely played if at all.

Anyway, here are some UDFAs they got to address needs:

TE Josh Pederson (6-4, 234) played at Louisiana Monroe. His best season was in 2019, when he caught 43 passes for 567 yards and nine TDs. #49ers https://t.co/l7ukF8ZTCQ

— Matt Maiocco (@MaioccoNBCS) May 2, 2021

Alabama-Birmingham WR Austin Watkins Jr. (6-1 1/2, 207) caught 91 passes for 1,560 yards and nine TDs in final 21 games over past two seasons. Cousin of Sammy Watkins. #49ers https://t.co/wQxPAZc3BY

— Matt Maiocco (@MaioccoNBCS) May 2, 2021

philbert said:

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Well, I'll never bash a team because their draft board is different from the experts like Kiper. I mean, Mike Mayock was one of those draft experts and it doesn't seem like his scouting and draft boards have improved the Raiders drafting at all. But I'd just add that many RBs don't fit in Shanahan's zone running scheme. On the other hand, that Utah RB they got in 2017 barely played if at all.

Anyway, here are some UDFAs they got to address needs:

TE Josh Pederson (6-4, 234) played at Louisiana Monroe. His best season was in 2019, when he caught 43 passes for 567 yards and nine TDs. #49ers https://t.co/l7ukF8ZTCQ

— Matt Maiocco (@MaioccoNBCS) May 2, 2021

Alabama-Birmingham WR Austin Watkins Jr. (6-1 1/2, 207) caught 91 passes for 1,560 yards and nine TDs in final 21 games over past two seasons. Cousin of Sammy Watkins. #49ers https://t.co/wQxPAZc3BY

— Matt Maiocco (@MaioccoNBCS) May 2, 2021

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Yeah, they can make up for a less than optimal use of draft picks (measured by using more draft picks than they needed to get the guys the got) by killing it with UDFAs and FA finds.

No one really knows how drafts will turn out everyone just tries to evaluate and project as best they can. That said the Niners draft was the most confusing of the year.

Giving up that much to move up for a QB is something a team does when it's planning for the future. Giving up two 3rd round picks to a division rival to move up for a RB? That's something a team does when they're so desperate to win now that they're just willing to try anything.

I guess we'll see how quickly the Niners can get Lance into starter shape because there's basically no way Garoppolo makes it through this season healthy and Mullens & Beathard just don't have what it takes

Bearly Clad said:

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I guess we'll see how quickly the Niners can get Lance into starter shape because there's basically no way Garoppolo makes it through this season healthy and Mullens & Beathard just don't have what it takes

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Mullens and Beathard are no longer on the team.

Bearly Clad said:

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No one really knows how drafts will turn out everyone just tries to evaluate and project as best they can. That said the Niners draft was the most confusing of the year.

Giving up that much to move up for a QB is something a team does when it's planning for the future. Giving up two 3rd round picks to a division rival to move up for a RB? That's something a team does when they're so desperate to win now that they're just willing to try anything.

I guess we'll see how quickly the Niners can get Lance into starter shape because there's basically no way Garoppolo makes it through this season healthy and Mullens & Beathard just don't have what it takes

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Some corrections...

SF gave up two fours to obtain a three. As noted, it was utilized to obtain Sermon.
Neither Mullen or Beathard are not on the SF roster. The #3 (behind Jimmy G. and Lance) is Josh Rosen.

What is interesting to me is the universal praise SF received from the professional pundits. Every "grade" was B or better, including one A.

Overall, I felt it was a strong draft. SF addressed the QB situation in spectacular fashion, picked up a couple RB's (a position with zero guys signed beyond 2021), a couple big interior OLers (the biggest hole on the team), and a DB with solid credentials. Following a free agency period during they signed most of their own guys along with a couple other players, it has been a solid off-season so far (if Sherm returns, it will bump up to terrific).

Note: The huge caveat is my earlier comment about not being able to fully assess a draft class for three years. Having said that, I'll take the optimistic path for now.

Golden One said:

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71Bear said:

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Golden One said:

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Will be interesting to see what Shanahan does if Garoppolo stays healthy the entire 2021 season and leads the 49ers to a Superbowl Championship. Then, what does he do with Garoppolo and Lance after having given up all those high draft choices to get Lance?

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Montana/Young Two HOF
Farve/Rodgers Two HOF
Garoppolo/Lance Two HOF??

A nice problem to have...

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True, but Garoppolo is a lot younger than either Montana or Favre were when Young and Rodgers were added to the roster. Garoppolo should have about 10 years left in his NFL career at this point.

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Montana was 31 when Young was added in 1987. Garoppolo turns 30 during the coming season. That's not a lot younger, and it is very unlikely he has 10 years left, which would have him playing until he's 39 - an age reserved for the elite of the elite QBs.

GMP said:

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Golden One said:

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71Bear said:

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Golden One said:

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Will be interesting to see what Shanahan does if Garoppolo stays healthy the entire 2021 season and leads the 49ers to a Superbowl Championship. Then, what does he do with Garoppolo and Lance after having given up all those high draft choices to get Lance?

---

Montana/Young Two HOF
Farve/Rodgers Two HOF
Garoppolo/Lance Two HOF??

A nice problem to have...

---

True, but Garoppolo is a lot younger than either Montana or Favre were when Young and Rodgers were added to the roster. Garoppolo should have about 10 years left in his NFL career at this point.

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Montana was 31 when Young was added in 1987. Garoppolo turns 30 during the coming season. That's not a lot younger, and it is very unlikely he has 10 years left, which would have him playing until he's 39 - an age reserved for the elite of the elite QBs.

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Ryan Fitzpatrick will be 39 this season and he is still playing for Washington. He is hardly "elite". Matt Hasselback played beyond his 40th birthday, and he was certainly not "elite". Ditto for Joe Ferguson, Jim Hart, and Vince Evans. Then you have 4 QB's who played into their 40's: Mark Brunell (41), Doug Flutie (43), Vinny Testaverde (44), Steve DeBerg (44); none of them were elite. Garoppolo may turn 30 this season, but he doesn't have a lot of playing time on his body, so I can easily see him playing 10 more years.

71Bear said:

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Bearly Clad said:

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No one really knows how drafts will turn out everyone just tries to evaluate and project as best they can. That said the Niners draft was the most confusing of the year.

Giving up that much to move up for a QB is something a team does when it's planning for the future. Giving up two 3rd round picks to a division rival to move up for a RB? That's something a team does when they're so desperate to win now that they're just willing to try anything.

I guess we'll see how quickly the Niners can get Lance into starter shape because there's basically no way Garoppolo makes it through this season healthy and Mullens & Beathard just don't have what it takes

---

Some corrections...

SF gave up two fours to obtain a three. As noted, it was utilized to obtain Sermon.
Neither Mullen or Beathard are not on the SF roster. The #3 (behind Jimmy G. and Lance) is Josh Rosen.

What is interesting to me is the universal praise SF received from the professional pundits. Every "grade" was B or better, including one A.

Overall, I felt it was a strong draft. SF addressed the QB situation in spectacular fashion, picked up a couple RB's (a position with zero guys signed beyond 2021), a couple big interior OLers (the biggest hole on the team), and a DB with solid credentials. Following a free agency period during they signed most of their own guys along with a couple other players, it has been a solid off-season so far (if Sherm returns, it will bump up to terrific).

Note: The huge caveat is my earlier comment about not being able to fully assess a draft class for three years. Having said that, I'll take the optimistic path for now.

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I think the grades are based on who they got and how they used their picks. It is not an evaluation of the underlying trade for picks.

They traded future first round draft picks for this draft, so I would hope this year's draft would be at least a B.

Of course, next year's draft grades will probably be based on how well they do given next year's draft position.

As you said, the impact of this trade/draft will not be fully known for years, partly due to player development and partly due to not knowing who they are going to miss in future drafts.

calumnus said:

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I think the grades are based on who they got and how they used their picks. It is not an evaluation of the underlying trade for picks.

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That's right; the draft grades are agnostic about whether trades involving draft picks were good trades.

E.g., the writer's opinion is that Lance is a solid pick with the 3rd choice in the first round, it's not an opinion as to whether it was wise to trade away three 1sts and a 3rd for the chance to pick Lance.

Another article with insight on the trade. Also some info on AR.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/05/03/aaron-rodgers-trade-nfl-draft-fmia-peter-king/?cid=fmiatw