If you say something is "racist" enough times, it doesn't make it so...

Although I have a real problem with people who throw that word around without justification.

Get some help. You don't seem to realize it, but you are very angry.

GoOskie said:

---

My dad got locked inside the Pizza Haven one Sat night after a game. We waited outside for hours waiting for the owner to show up. He was pretty sloshed when he was finally freed. I can only imagine how many beers he drank while waiting.

---

How does one get locked INSIDE a restaurant?

No emergency exits?

dimitrig said:

---

GoOskie said:

---

My dad got locked inside the Pizza Haven one Sat night after a game. We waited outside for hours waiting for the owner to show up. He was pretty sloshed when he was finally freed. I can only imagine how many beers he drank while waiting.

---

How does one get locked INSIDE a restaurant?

No emergency exits?

---

Which brings to mind the case of Paddy Doherty, a custodian at the Guinness Brewery, St. Jame's Gate, Dublin that drowned when he fell into a giant vat of freshly brewed stout. When the Garda went to his home to advise his wife of the horrible accident:

Mrs. Doherty: "Please tell me that it was quick and dat Paddy did not suffer."

Garda O'Sullivan: "Well, Mrs. Doherty, witnesses said it took Paddy 3 hours before he drowned."

Mrs. Doherty: "JESUS MARY AND JOSEPH! 3 HOURS!

Garda O'Sullivan: "Apparently he got out 6 times to take a pee."

dimitrig said:

---

GoOskie said:

---

My dad got locked inside the Pizza Haven one Sat night after a game. We waited outside for hours waiting for the owner to show up. He was pretty sloshed when he was finally freed. I can only imagine how many beers he drank while waiting.

---

How does one get locked INSIDE a restaurant?

No emergency exits?

---

Back then it was not uncommon for owners to padlock all exists in order to reduce burglaries. (Burglars posing as customers during business hours would surreptitiously disable the locking mechanism on the doors. Sometimes the burglars were employees. They would later return after business hours to gain access through that door.) there are very tragic reports of customers burning to death because emergency doors were padlocked by owners.

grrrah76 said:

---

Back in the day (mid aw70's), Kips was known for cold food and warm beer. Has it changed?

---

1968-1975 awesome charcoal grilled burgers and good pizza before games. Last 5 years decent burgers. Never had cold food in the last 30 years. But i inly go on game days . They made a mistake during the pandemic as no one wanted alcohol to go . They could have fired up the downstairs pizza ovens and sold it to go. They wanted ti be a bar that served limited food and it killed them

LunchTime said:

---

bearsandgiants said:

---

It was open for the Nevada game. Totally dead. Kind of sad. My favorite part of revisiting the campus was seeing a Taco Bell literally next door to la burrita. Sacrilege

---

I have a pretty good friend from China who told me his very first meal in the US was Panda Express.

"I am off the plane: I see the names, and I recognize the names. I try; this is NOT Chinese food. Very good, though."

I say (or paraphrase) that to my wife when we pass a Taco Bell or Panda Express now. She might be tired of it, but it makes me laugh every time.

---

Coworker from China: "What's your problem with Chipotle?"

Me: "What's your problem with Panda Express?"

Coworker: "Oh."


My $0.02: These places are fine for most college students, but as I'm getting older I'm finding life is too short to be wasting time, money, and most of all calories on mediocre corperation food.

Civil Bear said:

---

Coworker from China: "What's your problem with Chipotle?"
Me: "What's your problem with Panda Express?"
Coworker: "Oh."

My $0.02: These places are fine for most college students, but as I'm getting older I'm finding life is too short to be wasting time, money, and most of all calories on mediocre cooperation food.

---

by far our favorite out is zippy's, less than conveniently located in kahului
https://www.zippys.com/locations/zippys-kahului

LunchTime said:

---

01Bear said:

---

LunchTime said:

---

bearsandgiants said:

---

It was open for the Nevada game. Totally dead. Kind of sad. My favorite part of revisiting the campus was seeing a Taco Bell literally next door to la burrita. Sacrilege

---

I have a pretty good friend from China who told me his very first meal in the US was Panda Express.

"I am off the plane: I see the names, and I recognize the names. I try; this is NOT Chinese food. Very good, though."

I say (or paraphrase) that to my wife when we pass a Taco Bell or Panda Express now. She might be tired of it, but it makes me laugh every time.

---

From what part of China was he? Has he tried the cuisine from every region and community in China? What exactly makes him an expert on Chinese food? Is he familiar with the evolution of Chinese food?

Frankly, those @ssholes who insist that only "authentic" Chinese food is "real" Chinese food are full of crap. They only know the Chinese food of their era and possibly only of their region. It's unlikely they're familiar with the evolution of Chinese food, let alone that Chinese food has evolved over millennia to take advantage of the locally available ingredients as well as to suit the tastes of the locals.*

In this way, Panda Express and other Americanized Chinese food is very much authentic Chinese. Heck, dim sum has origins in America. Yet, no one suggests dim sum is not authentic Chinese food. There are also tons of popular dishes in Hong Kong that are influenced by the British, yet no one considers those dishes as "not real Chinese food."

To say Americanized Chinese food is not real Chinese food is to eliminate the history and culture of the Chinese-Americans who took locally available ingredients and made them into food that was palatable (and profitable) to local tastes based off traditional Chinese techniques. Ultimately, that is the essence of Chinese food.

*I'd challenge anyone to tell me exactly what Confucius ate or even to make his favorite dish the same way he liked it. The simple fact of the matter is that we simply don't have enough information on either. While Confucius wrote about food and there is even "Confucian cuisine," the latter dates to the Ming dynasty, which is a thousand years after he died.

Keep in mind, Confucius is only 2500 years removed from modern times; the earliest Chinese written records predate him by some 1500-2500 years. Chinese people were cooking and eating food in that time, too. I'm pretty darn certain what's eaten in China now is pretty different from what was eaten back then. Not only are ingredients likely different, but cooking technology and techniques are likely different. Yet, who would dare say that Chinese food from the Shang dynasty is not real Chinese food?

---

Do you have a mental disability or something? Holy **** what a dumbassed rant.

---

Let's not overreact. It's my understanding that the Toltecs and Mayans ate food very similar to what you can order from Taco Bell.

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

---

LunchTime said:

---

01Bear said:

---

LunchTime said:

---

bearsandgiants said:

---

It was open for the Nevada game. Totally dead. Kind of sad. My favorite part of revisiting the campus was seeing a Taco Bell literally next door to la burrita. Sacrilege

---

I have a pretty good friend from China who told me his very first meal in the US was Panda Express.

"I am off the plane: I see the names, and I recognize the names. I try; this is NOT Chinese food. Very good, though."

I say (or paraphrase) that to my wife when we pass a Taco Bell or Panda Express now. She might be tired of it, but it makes me laugh every time.

---

From what part of China was he? Has he tried the cuisine from every region and community in China? What exactly makes him an expert on Chinese food? Is he familiar with the evolution of Chinese food?

Frankly, those @ssholes who insist that only "authentic" Chinese food is "real" Chinese food are full of crap. They only know the Chinese food of their era and possibly only of their region. It's unlikely they're familiar with the evolution of Chinese food, let alone that Chinese food has evolved over millennia to take advantage of the locally available ingredients as well as to suit the tastes of the locals.*

In this way, Panda Express and other Americanized Chinese food is very much authentic Chinese. Heck, dim sum has origins in America. Yet, no one suggests dim sum is not authentic Chinese food. There are also tons of popular dishes in Hong Kong that are influenced by the British, yet no one considers those dishes as "not real Chinese food."

To say Americanized Chinese food is not real Chinese food is to eliminate the history and culture of the Chinese-Americans who took locally available ingredients and made them into food that was palatable (and profitable) to local tastes based off traditional Chinese techniques. Ultimately, that is the essence of Chinese food.

*I'd challenge anyone to tell me exactly what Confucius ate or even to make his favorite dish the same way he liked it. The simple fact of the matter is that we simply don't have enough information on either. While Confucius wrote about food and there is even "Confucian cuisine," the latter dates to the Ming dynasty, which is a thousand years after he died.

Keep in mind, Confucius is only 2500 years removed from modern times; the earliest Chinese written records predate him by some 1500-2500 years. Chinese people were cooking and eating food in that time, too. I'm pretty darn certain what's eaten in China now is pretty different from what was eaten back then. Not only are ingredients likely different, but cooking technology and techniques are likely different. Yet, who would dare say that Chinese food from the Shang dynasty is not real Chinese food?

---

Do you have a mental disability or something? Holy **** what a dumbassed rant.

---

Let's not overreact. It's my understanding that the Toltecs and Mayans ate food very similar to what you can order from Taco Bell.

---

Lol.

Taco Bell has actually made multiple failed attempts to open locations in Mexico:
https://www.vice.com/en/article/a3d4xg/a-history-of-taco-bells-failed-attempts-to-open-locations-in-mexico-fastfoodweek2017

Last year Panda Express opened their first store in China:
https://www.yicaiglobal.com/news/largest-us-chinese-restaurant-chain-panda-express-enters-china
We will see how they do.

calumnus said:

---

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

---

LunchTime said:

---

01Bear said:

---

LunchTime said:

---

bearsandgiants said:

---

It was open for the Nevada game. Totally dead. Kind of sad. My favorite part of revisiting the campus was seeing a Taco Bell literally next door to la burrita. Sacrilege

---

I have a pretty good friend from China who told me his very first meal in the US was Panda Express.

"I am off the plane: I see the names, and I recognize the names. I try; this is NOT Chinese food. Very good, though."

I say (or paraphrase) that to my wife when we pass a Taco Bell or Panda Express now. She might be tired of it, but it makes me laugh every time.

---

From what part of China was he? Has he tried the cuisine from every region and community in China? What exactly makes him an expert on Chinese food? Is he familiar with the evolution of Chinese food?

Frankly, those @ssholes who insist that only "authentic" Chinese food is "real" Chinese food are full of crap. They only know the Chinese food of their era and possibly only of their region. It's unlikely they're familiar with the evolution of Chinese food, let alone that Chinese food has evolved over millennia to take advantage of the locally available ingredients as well as to suit the tastes of the locals.*

In this way, Panda Express and other Americanized Chinese food is very much authentic Chinese. Heck, dim sum has origins in America. Yet, no one suggests dim sum is not authentic Chinese food. There are also tons of popular dishes in Hong Kong that are influenced by the British, yet no one considers those dishes as "not real Chinese food."

To say Americanized Chinese food is not real Chinese food is to eliminate the history and culture of the Chinese-Americans who took locally available ingredients and made them into food that was palatable (and profitable) to local tastes based off traditional Chinese techniques. Ultimately, that is the essence of Chinese food.

*I'd challenge anyone to tell me exactly what Confucius ate or even to make his favorite dish the same way he liked it. The simple fact of the matter is that we simply don't have enough information on either. While Confucius wrote about food and there is even "Confucian cuisine," the latter dates to the Ming dynasty, which is a thousand years after he died.

Keep in mind, Confucius is only 2500 years removed from modern times; the earliest Chinese written records predate him by some 1500-2500 years. Chinese people were cooking and eating food in that time, too. I'm pretty darn certain what's eaten in China now is pretty different from what was eaten back then. Not only are ingredients likely different, but cooking technology and techniques are likely different. Yet, who would dare say that Chinese food from the Shang dynasty is not real Chinese food?

---

Do you have a mental disability or something? Holy **** what a dumbassed rant.

---

Let's not overreact. It's my understanding that the Toltecs and Mayans ate food very similar to what you can order from Taco Bell.

---

Lol.

Taco Bell has actually made multiple failed attempts to open locations in Mexico:
https://www.vice.com/en/article/a3d4xg/a-history-of-taco-bells-failed-attempts-to-open-locations-in-mexico-fastfoodweek2017

Last year Panda Express opened their first store in China:
https://www.yicaiglobal.com/news/largest-us-chinese-restaurant-chain-panda-express-enters-china
We will see how they do.

---

At least Panda Express was founded by Chinese-Americans. Taco Bell was founded by a gringo.

smh said:

---

Civil Bear said:

---

Coworker from China: "What's your problem with Chipotle?"
Me: "What's your problem with Panda Express?"
Coworker: "Oh."

My $0.02: These places are fine for most college students, but as I'm getting older I'm finding life is too short to be wasting time, money, and most of all calories on mediocre cooperation food.

---

by far our favorite out is zippy's, less than conveniently located in kahului
https://www.zippys.com/locations/zippys-kahului

---

I'd rate Zippy's a step above Panda Express and Chipotle as the local chain actually cooks their food on location. I'd recommend a place like Tiffany's B&G in Wailuku though for better local food in a similar(ish) price range.

I remember that alley. But that joint had disappeared. Was replaced with yogurt park and really sad barber shops and computer stores. The Cheshire Cat replaced the joint you referenced near north side near la vals. $2 pitchers in the rain sliding across campus kick sliding. The hilarious place was the connector across the street from YP with the commie bookstore guy and an ok deli

Pizza Haven actually had good pizza

and there was Big Art's down an alleyway up Durant from B of A. I saw Eddie Money, Delta Wires, and Arm n Hammer there. I Lost several million brain cells in that hole in the wall (1975-1976). I saw Franklin Mieuli playing foosball out front in his Sherlock Holmes hat.

Meeting Scheduled Today For 2439 Durant Avenue In Berkeley

A new mixed commercial and residential will rise in place of the old Kips building. According to the article, Kips Bar will continue to operate there.

https://sfyimby.com/2022/06/meeting-scheduled-today-for-2439-durant-avenue-in-berkeley.html

bearister said:

---

We were in the same class. Crap, we're old. My graduation was in Zellerbach (Letters & Science/History). As we were walking into the auditorium, there were a ton on long hairs beating on drums in Lower Sproul Plaza. My uncle Jim from Reno's reaction: "That's Berkeley for you."

---

I guess elsewhere the world outside a building stops if something important is going on inside the building

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

---

LunchTime said:

---

01Bear said:

---

LunchTime said:

---

bearsandgiants said:

---

It was open for the Nevada game. Totally dead. Kind of sad. My favorite part of revisiting the campus was seeing a Taco Bell literally next door to la burrita. Sacrilege

---

I have a pretty good friend from China who told me his very first meal in the US was Panda Express.

"I am off the plane: I see the names, and I recognize the names. I try; this is NOT Chinese food. Very good, though."

I say (or paraphrase) that to my wife when we pass a Taco Bell or Panda Express now. She might be tired of it, but it makes me laugh every time.

---

From what part of China was he? Has he tried the cuisine from every region and community in China? What exactly makes him an expert on Chinese food? Is he familiar with the evolution of Chinese food?

Frankly, those @ssholes who insist that only "authentic" Chinese food is "real" Chinese food are full of crap. They only know the Chinese food of their era and possibly only of their region. It's unlikely they're familiar with the evolution of Chinese food, let alone that Chinese food has evolved over millennia to take advantage of the locally available ingredients as well as to suit the tastes of the locals.*

In this way, Panda Express and other Americanized Chinese food is very much authentic Chinese. Heck, dim sum has origins in America. Yet, no one suggests dim sum is not authentic Chinese food. There are also tons of popular dishes in Hong Kong that are influenced by the British, yet no one considers those dishes as "not real Chinese food."

To say Americanized Chinese food is not real Chinese food is to eliminate the history and culture of the Chinese-Americans who took locally available ingredients and made them into food that was palatable (and profitable) to local tastes based off traditional Chinese techniques. Ultimately, that is the essence of Chinese food.

*I'd challenge anyone to tell me exactly what Confucius ate or even to make his favorite dish the same way he liked it. The simple fact of the matter is that we simply don't have enough information on either. While Confucius wrote about food and there is even "Confucian cuisine," the latter dates to the Ming dynasty, which is a thousand years after he died.

Keep in mind, Confucius is only 2500 years removed from modern times; the earliest Chinese written records predate him by some 1500-2500 years. Chinese people were cooking and eating food in that time, too. I'm pretty darn certain what's eaten in China now is pretty different from what was eaten back then. Not only are ingredients likely different, but cooking technology and techniques are likely different. Yet, who would dare say that Chinese food from the Shang dynasty is not real Chinese food?

---

Do you have a mental disability or something? Holy **** what a dumbassed rant.

---

Let's not overreact. It's my understanding that the Toltecs and Mayans ate food very similar to what you can order from Taco Bell.

---

He came dancing across the water
With his galleons and guns
Looking for the new world
And the palace in the sun

On the shore lay Montezuma
With his coca leaves and pearls
In his halls, he often wandered
With the secrets of the world

And his subjects gathered 'round him
Like the leaves around a tree
In their clothes of many colors
For the angry gods to see

And the women all were beautiful
And the men stood straight and strong
They offered life in sacrifice
So that others could go on

Hate was just a legend
And war was never known
The people worked together
And they lifted many stones

And they carried them to the flat lands
But they died along the way
And they build up with their bare hands
What we still can't do today

And I know she's living there
And she loves me to this day
I still can't remember when
Or how I lost my way

He came dancing across the water
Cortez, Cortez
What a killer

Source: LyricFind
Songwriters: Neil Young

and there was Big Art's down an alleyway up Durant from B of A. I saw Eddie Money, Delta Wires, and Arm n Hammer there. I Lost several million brain cells in that hole in the wall (1975-1976). I saw Franklin Mieuli playing foosball out front in his Sherlock Holmes hat.


The owners of Big Art's used to work in a gas station in El Cerrito and met Meuli there.
Most interesting time at Big Art's was a car load of guys pulled up armed to the teeth looking for Muncie, he evidently owed them money.
We had to tell them to rad the paper since he had been drafted and was in New Orleans.

Eddie Money lived around the corner from McNally's, I stopped in and he was sitting at the bar, he was scheduled to play a concert in Port Costa that night, I asked aren't you supposed to be somewhere else? He said it was between sets so he came back down the road to have a drink

01Bear said:

---

LunchTime said:

---

bearsandgiants said:

---

It was open for the Nevada game. Totally dead. Kind of sad. My favorite part of revisiting the campus was seeing a Taco Bell literally next door to la burrita. Sacrilege

---

I have a pretty good friend from China who told me his very first meal in the US was Panda Express.

"I am off the plane: I see the names, and I recognize the names. I try; this is NOT Chinese food. Very good, though."

I say (or paraphrase) that to my wife when we pass a Taco Bell or Panda Express now. She might be tired of it, but it makes me laugh every time.

---

From what part of China was he? Has he tried the cuisine from every region and community in China? What exactly makes him an expert on Chinese food? Is he familiar with the evolution of Chinese food?

Frankly, those @ssholes who insist that only "authentic" Chinese food is "real" Chinese food are full of crap. They only know the Chinese food of their era and possibly only of their region. It's unlikely they're familiar with the evolution of Chinese food, let alone that Chinese food has evolved over millennia to take advantage of the locally available ingredients as well as to suit the tastes of the locals.*

In this way, Panda Express and other Americanized Chinese food is very much authentic Chinese. Heck, dim sum has origins in America. Yet, no one suggests dim sum is not authentic Chinese food. There are also tons of popular dishes in Hong Kong that are influenced by the British, yet no one considers those dishes as "not real Chinese food."

To say Americanized Chinese food is not real Chinese food is to eliminate the history and culture of the Chinese-Americans who took locally available ingredients and made them into food that was palatable (and profitable) to local tastes based off traditional Chinese techniques. Ultimately, that is the essence of Chinese food.

*I'd challenge anyone to tell me exactly what Confucius ate or even to make his favorite dish the same way he liked it. The simple fact of the matter is that we simply don't have enough information on either. While Confucius wrote about food and there is even "Confucian cuisine," the latter dates to the Ming dynasty, which is a thousand years after he died.

Keep in mind, Confucius is only 2500 years removed from modern times; the earliest Chinese written records predate him by some 1500-2500 years. Chinese people were cooking and eating food in that time, too. I'm pretty darn certain what's eaten in China now is pretty different from what was eaten back then. Not only are ingredients likely different, but cooking technology and techniques are likely different. Yet, who would dare say that Chinese food from the Shang dynasty is not real Chinese food?

---

oh my...there's just...so much to unpack here....

I'd like to see the source material that says dim sum originated in America...

as long as we're sharing memories of kip's, mine is of the smell of the beer steins after they had been wiped with a bar towel that had been there for days apparently.

6164bear said:

---

as long as we're sharing memories of kip's, mine is of the smell of the beer steins after they had been wiped with a bar towel that had been there for days apparently.

---

DUDE! SICK!

Food prejudice? Ugh. So what about Italian kids who were teased for smelling like garlic?

bearsandgiants said:

---

HearstMining said:

---

Big C said:

---

Most disgusting men's bathrooms and how many times I used them:

2. Kip's upstairs, late '70s - '80s... 200+

1. Cheshire Cat (n-side), late '70s,,, 5+ (Thurs nite $0.99 PBR pitchers. Don't remember much, certainly forgot how to count.)

---

Ah yes, the Cheshire Cat. The first place I ever tasted Anchor Steam. For that reason alone it will always be sacred ground for me.

---

Anchor! Another one that's been corrupted. Used to be amazing. Now it tastes like Pabst. I do like Pabst, but if I want a 50-cent beer, I'll buy Pabst. I know the ownership changed but man has Anchor sunk to the depths.

---

Ha!
I had anchor as a teen.
Didn't like it so much. Very heavy. Young palate.
Then I bought a 12-pack like 5 years ago. It was much more mild and drinkable.

I thought, gosh, my palate has changed.
Now you're telling me the brew changed. Hmmm.

"Hooray for Kips!" *

* I didn't drink (socially occasionally) while a student at Cal.**

** "honest. I swear!" ***


*** "..and I'll vouch for blueblood."

concordtom said:

---

bearsandgiants said:

---

HearstMining said:

---

Big C said:

---

Most disgusting men's bathrooms and how many times I used them:

2. Kip's upstairs, late '70s - '80s... 200+

1. Cheshire Cat (n-side), late '70s,,, 5+ (Thurs nite $0.99 PBR pitchers. Don't remember much, certainly forgot how to count.)

---

Ah yes, the Cheshire Cat. The first place I ever tasted Anchor Steam. For that reason alone it will always be sacred ground for me.

---

Anchor! Another one that's been corrupted. Used to be amazing. Now it tastes like Pabst. I do like Pabst, but if I want a 50-cent beer, I'll buy Pabst. I know the ownership changed but man has Anchor sunk to the depths.

---

Ha!
I had anchor as a teen.
Didn't like it so much. Very heavy. Young palate.
Then I bought a 12-pack like 5 years ago. It was much more mild and drinkable.

I thought, gosh, my palate has changed.
Now you're telling me the brew changed. Hmmm.

---

Anchor Steam has not changed. I have some in the fridge now and it tastes the same. I was also at their Public Taps on Potrero Hill a few weeks back and had some on draft - it's the same excellent product. It does not look, taste, or smell anything like Pabst. What has changed in the last 30 years is customer taste and the competition. Today's craft brewers have created "IPAs" with dramatically increased hops content to the point where they practically etch the enamel off your teeth (that's you, Pliny). They've done this in response to customer demand as people mistakenly believe that hoppier beers are somehow better or more authentic. I won't say that's bad, I'll just say I don't generally like it.

All this being said, Anchor Brewing has changed. New owners, new logos, additional brews and maybe one of those is what spawned the "Anchor has been corrupted" comment. Or maybe the commenter got some old stock that had gone "skunky". But Anchor Steam beer is as good as ever, and incidentally, the Anchor Public Taps is a great place to enjoy it!

My All-Time Favorite Craft Beer for the last 2.5 years is the Henhouse IPA out of Sonoma.
Gets delivered every week to my local Total Wine store.
Nothing comes close.

It's a Pale Ale.
Super fresh!

$12.50
4-pack

concordtom said:

---

bearsandgiants said:

---

HearstMining said:

---

Big C said:

---

Most disgusting men's bathrooms and how many times I used them:

2. Kip's upstairs, late '70s - '80s... 200+

1. Cheshire Cat (n-side), late '70s,,, 5+ (Thurs nite $0.99 PBR pitchers. Don't remember much, certainly forgot how to count.)

---

Ah yes, the Cheshire Cat. The first place I ever tasted Anchor Steam. For that reason alone it will always be sacred ground for me.

---

Anchor! Another one that's been corrupted. Used to be amazing. Now it tastes like Pabst. I do like Pabst, but if I want a 50-cent beer, I'll buy Pabst. I know the ownership changed but man has Anchor sunk to the depths.

---

Ha!
I had anchor as a teen.
Didn't like it so much. Very heavy. Young palate.
Then I bought a 12-pack like 5 years ago. It was much more mild and drinkable.

I thought, gosh, my palate has changed.
Now you're telling me the brew changed. Hmmm.

---

The brew has not changed. It is the same and tastes the same. When all you drink is IPAs now, it tastes different, though.

The new bottle irritates me, though.

When we were at Cal we my housemates and I used to brew 5 gallon batches of beer into 24 ounce bottles from the beer supply store on university. It worked out to about $.25 per bottle, which was a great bargain. We had about 20 cases of the bottles, and would try a bunch of different brews.

The ones we totally screwed up were what people call IPAs now. They were (and still are) undrinkable. If you want an IPA to taste good, put it back in the carboy and let it go for a few days more...

Breweries brew IPAs because the aging time is so much shorter than other, better beers, and they are all trying to keep the aging costs low. So the IPA boom was born. Anchor Liberty was really the first IPA for the micro-brew crew and that was what Sierra Nevada copied. And so it was...