heartofthebear said:

---

71Bear said:

---

heartofthebear said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

heartofthebear said:

---

82gradDLSdad said:

---

LunchTime said:

---

Strykur said:

---

wifeisafurd said:

---

Well the head coach might have suggested something different. Oh wait, Wilcox was on TV wandering around, while the offense huddled around Musgrave during all those time outs, and not involved with the offense on all those play calls. The Sonny Dykes of offensive delegation.

---

Dykes would have been alright if he had hired a good defensive coordinator and had not blown it with Buh, likewise Wilcox cannot seem to hire a decent offensive coordinator or figure out what offensive system he wants, in year 5.

---

Except Wilcox's defense also needs a better DC.

---

I think Wilcox is showing he's an average to above average DC. That's it. He has not assembled a good staff, he has not recruited well, he doesn't seem to make great game day strategy decisions...just nothing in the 5 years suggests he's going to turn this around.

---

I feel that recruiting on defense was pretty good initially, then there was a lull to help the offense catch up. I think he's recruiting okay on D again. He's had good LBs the whole time but he now has some really good DEs coming in and the DBs have a shot at being pretty good too.

---

I'll be honest, at the start of the season I thought our LBs were really bad, and they were. But they are young. They were actually really good vs Oregon though, so seems they are growing. Their tackling got a lot better.

---

We are actually going to be really deep at DE next season. If guys develop, we may actually have a pass rush. It has historically been very difficult for us to recruit the DL, particularly the interior. But we will have some serviceable people on the interior assuming they are healthy finally (Maldonado, Johnson and Mackenzie). We will lose Goode and Deng at OLB so there will definitely be a drop off but the DE strength might help mitigate that. I think folks are going to be pleasantly surprised by the DBs next season. However I'm not convinced that Watson is the right DB coach to develop them fully.

---

Geez, here we go…

Next year, bah, blah, blah….

Newsflash - the best thing, all guys are returning; the worst thing, all guys are returning.

Cal needs a major infusion of talent. They cannot count on the current bunch to do anything………

---

What do you want? Do you want a bunch of 4 stars to sign up for the program right now without any evidence that it is going to support them? We have to get incrementally better in the meantime before a bunch of 4 stars sign up. Tedford had to do that. Snyder had to do that. Wilcox has recruited pretty well considering the circumstances, especially on D. We were failing to recruit on O under Baldwin but have improved considerably under Musgrave, although the QBs have been leaving unfortunately. But defense is about as good as can be expected under the circumstances.

The main problem isn't the recruiting right now, it is the coaching of that talent, especially on game day. The players are being poorly coordinated for success.

We do need to get faster though. We have been recruiting size lately, according to Wilcox. Maybe that was at the expense of speed. I don't know.

BTW, a lot of guys are not returning. And just because we don't have talent this year, does not mean we did not recruit it. It generally takes a year, at least, before guys see the field. Usually it is 2 years before guys have major roles. We have some talent waiting in the wings:

Safety
Williams
Losefa
Woodson
Barthe
Cornerback
Hearns III
Gamble
Higgins
McWilliams
Inside Linebacker
Paster
Rutchena
Losefa
Puskas
Antzoulatos
Outside Linebacker
Histake
Patu
Leremia
Williams
DT/NT/NG
Maldonado
Johnson
Roberts
DE
Wilkins
Calhoun
Saunders

Say what you like, but if Oregon St./Wash St. had these guys, they'd compete for a conference title.
And some of them are 4 star players. Most of them are upper 3 star at least. This is a major upgrade on what we had previously and puts us above average in the conference for recruiting at these positions.

What we could really use is a JC/Grad transfer at QB next season.

---

Saying, "We are actually going to be really deep at DE next season" is a major red flag. It is the same **** we hear every year regarding a particular position group that winds up being a bust - this year, WR corps. I am certain the 23 guys you listed are nice guys and good students but I have grave doubts about them being kick-ass football players. Why should anyone believe anything that is written about the team? It has been nothing but an enormous flop since the end of 2019. I want to see them prove it first. Then we can talk. Until then, I can only hope they can beat UC Davis...

71Bear said:

---

heartofthebear said:

---

71Bear said:

---

heartofthebear said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

heartofthebear said:

---

82gradDLSdad said:

---

LunchTime said:

---

Strykur said:

---

wifeisafurd said:

---

Well the head coach might have suggested something different. Oh wait, Wilcox was on TV wandering around, while the offense huddled around Musgrave during all those time outs, and not involved with the offense on all those play calls. The Sonny Dykes of offensive delegation.

---

Dykes would have been alright if he had hired a good defensive coordinator and had not blown it with Buh, likewise Wilcox cannot seem to hire a decent offensive coordinator or figure out what offensive system he wants, in year 5.

---

Except Wilcox's defense also needs a better DC.

---

I think Wilcox is showing he's an average to above average DC. That's it. He has not assembled a good staff, he has not recruited well, he doesn't seem to make great game day strategy decisions...just nothing in the 5 years suggests he's going to turn this around.

---

I feel that recruiting on defense was pretty good initially, then there was a lull to help the offense catch up. I think he's recruiting okay on D again. He's had good LBs the whole time but he now has some really good DEs coming in and the DBs have a shot at being pretty good too.

---

I'll be honest, at the start of the season I thought our LBs were really bad, and they were. But they are young. They were actually really good vs Oregon though, so seems they are growing. Their tackling got a lot better.

---

We are actually going to be really deep at DE next season. If guys develop, we may actually have a pass rush. It has historically been very difficult for us to recruit the DL, particularly the interior. But we will have some serviceable people on the interior assuming they are healthy finally (Maldonado, Johnson and Mackenzie). We will lose Goode and Deng at OLB so there will definitely be a drop off but the DE strength might help mitigate that. I think folks are going to be pleasantly surprised by the DBs next season. However I'm not convinced that Watson is the right DB coach to develop them fully.

---

Geez, here we go…

Next year, bah, blah, blah….

Newsflash - the best thing, all guys are returning; the worst thing, all guys are returning.

Cal needs a major infusion of talent. They cannot count on the current bunch to do anything………

---

What do you want? Do you want a bunch of 4 stars to sign up for the program right now without any evidence that it is going to support them? We have to get incrementally better in the meantime before a bunch of 4 stars sign up. Tedford had to do that. Snyder had to do that. Wilcox has recruited pretty well considering the circumstances, especially on D. We were failing to recruit on O under Baldwin but have improved considerably under Musgrave, although the QBs have been leaving unfortunately. But defense is about as good as can be expected under the circumstances.

The main problem isn't the recruiting right now, it is the coaching of that talent, especially on game day. The players are being poorly coordinated for success.

We do need to get faster though. We have been recruiting size lately, according to Wilcox. Maybe that was at the expense of speed. I don't know.

BTW, a lot of guys are not returning. And just because we don't have talent this year, does not mean we did not recruit it. It generally takes a year, at least, before guys see the field. Usually it is 2 years before guys have major roles. We have some talent waiting in the wings:

Safety
Williams
Losefa
Woodson
Barthe
Cornerback
Hearns III
Gamble
Higgins
McWilliams
Inside Linebacker
Paster
Rutchena
Losefa
Puskas
Antzoulatos
Outside Linebacker
Histake
Patu
Leremia
Williams
DT/NT/NG
Maldonado
Johnson
Roberts
DE
Wilkins
Calhoun
Saunders

Say what you like, but if Oregon St./Wash St. had these guys, they'd compete for a conference title.
And some of them are 4 star players. Most of them are upper 3 star at least. This is a major upgrade on what we had previously and puts us above average in the conference for recruiting at these positions.

What we could really use is a JC/Grad transfer at QB next season.

---

Saying, "We are actually going to be really deep at DE next season" is a major red flag. It is the same **** we hear every year regarding a particular position group that winds up being a bust - this year, WR corps. I am certain the 23 guys you listed are nice guys and good students but I have grave doubts about them being kick-ass football players. Why should anyone believe anything that is written about the team? It has been nothing but an enormous flop since the end of 2019. I want to see them prove it first. Then we can talk. Until then, I can only hope they can beat UC Davis...

---

I understand. Actually I looked up some of those names I listed and I think I overstated things. Sometimes I get confused between players, especially if they have the same last name. Anyway, I don't base what I say on what is written or said within the Cal community. I go to national sources for ratings or I use game stats.

I learned long ago to ignore the Cal hype machine. You should know that I am not a part of that. But, while recruiting could be better, I don't think it has been our main problem under Wilcox, although QB retention has been a problem under Musgrave for some reason. And, for that reason, the recent de-committment of the QB recruit Martin is a major blow. We need to land a JC transfer and coach him up quickly.

Folks are very critical of Musgrave, but he has improved the offense compared to Baldwin. Total offense this season is over 400 yards/game, something Baldwin never did in his 3 years here. yards/play is better too. What has not improved is scoring offense but that is partly due to field position. This year's defense is much worse than it was the 3 years Baldwin was here. The defense is getting better but Cal's defense from 2017-2019 was one of the best in the entire country. It is not that good this year.

In any case, I think the scoring will improve. Musgrave still hasn't even had a full season of games yet. He's at 10. He's got one of the most balanced offenses in the nation. It was clear that Baldwin was a bust pretty quickly, but he still got 3 years. I think we need to give Musgrave more of a chance and it is frustrating to me that the QBs keep leaving before giving him that chance.

BTW, I don't agree that the WRs are a bust. And I don't get the criticism of them. The ball has to get to them. They are open a good deal of the time. On screens, the ball has to lead them so they can get YAC before the DBs close in. It's a timing issue without much room for error. Garbers dumpoffs and screen passes are shoddy at best. Sure there have been some dropped balls, especially early in the season. But Crawford, Clark, Remigio and Hunter have all made critical catches late in games to save drives. And Tonges is probably one of the most under-appreciated Cal players in history. He's been a gamer from the start.

heartofthebear said:

---

71Bear said:

---

heartofthebear said:

---

71Bear said:

---

heartofthebear said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

heartofthebear said:

---

82gradDLSdad said:

---

LunchTime said:

---

Strykur said:

---

wifeisafurd said:

---

Well the head coach might have suggested something different. Oh wait, Wilcox was on TV wandering around, while the offense huddled around Musgrave during all those time outs, and not involved with the offense on all those play calls. The Sonny Dykes of offensive delegation.

---

Dykes would have been alright if he had hired a good defensive coordinator and had not blown it with Buh, likewise Wilcox cannot seem to hire a decent offensive coordinator or figure out what offensive system he wants, in year 5.

---

Except Wilcox's defense also needs a better DC.

---

I think Wilcox is showing he's an average to above average DC. That's it. He has not assembled a good staff, he has not recruited well, he doesn't seem to make great game day strategy decisions...just nothing in the 5 years suggests he's going to turn this around.

---

I feel that recruiting on defense was pretty good initially, then there was a lull to help the offense catch up. I think he's recruiting okay on D again. He's had good LBs the whole time but he now has some really good DEs coming in and the DBs have a shot at being pretty good too.

---

I'll be honest, at the start of the season I thought our LBs were really bad, and they were. But they are young. They were actually really good vs Oregon though, so seems they are growing. Their tackling got a lot better.

---

We are actually going to be really deep at DE next season. If guys develop, we may actually have a pass rush. It has historically been very difficult for us to recruit the DL, particularly the interior. But we will have some serviceable people on the interior assuming they are healthy finally (Maldonado, Johnson and Mackenzie). We will lose Goode and Deng at OLB so there will definitely be a drop off but the DE strength might help mitigate that. I think folks are going to be pleasantly surprised by the DBs next season. However I'm not convinced that Watson is the right DB coach to develop them fully.

---

Geez, here we go…

Next year, bah, blah, blah….

Newsflash - the best thing, all guys are returning; the worst thing, all guys are returning.

Cal needs a major infusion of talent. They cannot count on the current bunch to do anything………

---

What do you want? Do you want a bunch of 4 stars to sign up for the program right now without any evidence that it is going to support them? We have to get incrementally better in the meantime before a bunch of 4 stars sign up. Tedford had to do that. Snyder had to do that. Wilcox has recruited pretty well considering the circumstances, especially on D. We were failing to recruit on O under Baldwin but have improved considerably under Musgrave, although the QBs have been leaving unfortunately. But defense is about as good as can be expected under the circumstances.

The main problem isn't the recruiting right now, it is the coaching of that talent, especially on game day. The players are being poorly coordinated for success.

We do need to get faster though. We have been recruiting size lately, according to Wilcox. Maybe that was at the expense of speed. I don't know.

BTW, a lot of guys are not returning. And just because we don't have talent this year, does not mean we did not recruit it. It generally takes a year, at least, before guys see the field. Usually it is 2 years before guys have major roles. We have some talent waiting in the wings:

Safety
Williams
Losefa
Woodson
Barthe
Cornerback
Hearns III
Gamble
Higgins
McWilliams
Inside Linebacker
Paster
Rutchena
Losefa
Puskas
Antzoulatos
Outside Linebacker
Histake
Patu
Leremia
Williams
DT/NT/NG
Maldonado
Johnson
Roberts
DE
Wilkins
Calhoun
Saunders

Say what you like, but if Oregon St./Wash St. had these guys, they'd compete for a conference title.
And some of them are 4 star players. Most of them are upper 3 star at least. This is a major upgrade on what we had previously and puts us above average in the conference for recruiting at these positions.

What we could really use is a JC/Grad transfer at QB next season.

---

Saying, "We are actually going to be really deep at DE next season" is a major red flag. It is the same **** we hear every year regarding a particular position group that winds up being a bust - this year, WR corps. I am certain the 23 guys you listed are nice guys and good students but I have grave doubts about them being kick-ass football players. Why should anyone believe anything that is written about the team? It has been nothing but an enormous flop since the end of 2019. I want to see them prove it first. Then we can talk. Until then, I can only hope they can beat UC Davis...

---

I understand. Actually I looked up some of those names I listed and I think I overstated things. Sometimes I get confused between players, especially if they have the same last name. Anyway, I don't base what I say on what is written or said within the Cal community. I go to national sources for ratings or I use game stats.

I learned long ago to ignore the Cal hype machine. You should know that I am not a part of that. But, while recruiting could be better, I don't think it has been our main problem under Wilcox, although QB retention has been a problem under Musgrave for some reason. And, for that reason, the recent de-committment of the QB recruit Martin is a major blow. We need to land a JC transfer and coach him up quickly.

Folks are very critical of Musgrave, but he has improved the offense compared to Baldwin. Total offense this season is over 400 yards/game, something Baldwin never did in his 3 years here. yards/play is better too. What has not improved is scoring offense but that is partly due to field position. This year's defense is much worse than it was the 3 years Baldwin was here. The defense is getting better but Cal's defense from 2017-2019 was one of the best in the entire country. It is not that good this year.

In any case, I think the scoring will improve. Musgrave still hasn't even had a full season of games yet. He's at 10. He's got one of the most balanced offenses in the nation. It was clear that Baldwin was a bust pretty quickly, but he still got 3 years. I think we need to give Musgrave more of a chance and it is frustrating to me that the QBs keep leaving before giving him that chance.

BTW, I don't agree that the WRs are a bust. And I don't get the criticism of them. The ball has to get to them. They are open a good deal of the time. On screens, the ball has to lead them so they can get YAC before the DBs close in. It's a timing issue without much room for error. Garbers dumpoffs and screen passes are shoddy at best. Sure there have been some dropped balls, especially early in the season. But Crawford, Clark, Remigio and Hunter have all made critical catches late in games to save drives. And Tonges is probably one of the most under-appreciated Cal players in history. He's been a gamer from the start.

---

My criticism of the WR's is related to their inability to separate. Rarely, do you see an open target for Garbers (and when you do, he invariably misfires, maybe from the shock of seeing someone break free?). As a group, they lack speed. Therein lies the tale….

heartofthebear said:

---

71Bear said:

---

heartofthebear said:

---

71Bear said:

---

heartofthebear said:

---

71Bear said:

---

heartofthebear said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

heartofthebear said:

---

82gradDLSdad said:

---

LunchTime said:

---

Strykur said:

---

wifeisafurd said:

---

Well the head coach might have suggested something different. Oh wait, Wilcox was on TV wandering around, while the offense huddled around Musgrave during all those time outs, and not involved with the offense on all those play calls. The Sonny Dykes of offensive delegation.

---

Dykes would have been alright if he had hired a good defensive coordinator and had not blown it with Buh, likewise Wilcox cannot seem to hire a decent offensive coordinator or figure out what offensive system he wants, in year 5.

---

Except Wilcox's defense also needs a better DC.

---

I think Wilcox is showing he's an average to above average DC. That's it. He has not assembled a good staff, he has not recruited well, he doesn't seem to make great game day strategy decisions...just nothing in the 5 years suggests he's going to turn this around.

---

I feel that recruiting on defense was pretty good initially, then there was a lull to help the offense catch up. I think he's recruiting okay on D again. He's had good LBs the whole time but he now has some really good DEs coming in and the DBs have a shot at being pretty good too.

---

I'll be honest, at the start of the season I thought our LBs were really bad, and they were. But they are young. They were actually really good vs Oregon though, so seems they are growing. Their tackling got a lot better.

---

We are actually going to be really deep at DE next season. If guys develop, we may actually have a pass rush. It has historically been very difficult for us to recruit the DL, particularly the interior. But we will have some serviceable people on the interior assuming they are healthy finally (Maldonado, Johnson and Mackenzie). We will lose Goode and Deng at OLB so there will definitely be a drop off but the DE strength might help mitigate that. I think folks are going to be pleasantly surprised by the DBs next season. However I'm not convinced that Watson is the right DB coach to develop them fully.

---

Geez, here we go…

Next year, bah, blah, blah….

Newsflash - the best thing, all guys are returning; the worst thing, all guys are returning.

Cal needs a major infusion of talent. They cannot count on the current bunch to do anything………

---

What do you want? Do you want a bunch of 4 stars to sign up for the program right now without any evidence that it is going to support them? We have to get incrementally better in the meantime before a bunch of 4 stars sign up. Tedford had to do that. Snyder had to do that. Wilcox has recruited pretty well considering the circumstances, especially on D. We were failing to recruit on O under Baldwin but have improved considerably under Musgrave, although the QBs have been leaving unfortunately. But defense is about as good as can be expected under the circumstances.

The main problem isn't the recruiting right now, it is the coaching of that talent, especially on game day. The players are being poorly coordinated for success.

We do need to get faster though. We have been recruiting size lately, according to Wilcox. Maybe that was at the expense of speed. I don't know.

BTW, a lot of guys are not returning. And just because we don't have talent this year, does not mean we did not recruit it. It generally takes a year, at least, before guys see the field. Usually it is 2 years before guys have major roles. We have some talent waiting in the wings:

Safety
Williams
Losefa
Woodson
Barthe
Cornerback
Hearns III
Gamble
Higgins
McWilliams
Inside Linebacker
Paster
Rutchena
Losefa
Puskas
Antzoulatos
Outside Linebacker
Histake
Patu
Leremia
Williams
DT/NT/NG
Maldonado
Johnson
Roberts
DE
Wilkins
Calhoun
Saunders

Say what you like, but if Oregon St./Wash St. had these guys, they'd compete for a conference title.
And some of them are 4 star players. Most of them are upper 3 star at least. This is a major upgrade on what we had previously and puts us above average in the conference for recruiting at these positions.

What we could really use is a JC/Grad transfer at QB next season.

---

Saying, "We are actually going to be really deep at DE next season" is a major red flag. It is the same **** we hear every year regarding a particular position group that winds up being a bust - this year, WR corps. I am certain the 23 guys you listed are nice guys and good students but I have grave doubts about them being kick-ass football players. Why should anyone believe anything that is written about the team? It has been nothing but an enormous flop since the end of 2019. I want to see them prove it first. Then we can talk. Until then, I can only hope they can beat UC Davis...

---

I understand. Actually I looked up some of those names I listed and I think I overstated things. Sometimes I get confused between players, especially if they have the same last name. Anyway, I don't base what I say on what is written or said within the Cal community. I go to national sources for ratings or I use game stats.

I learned long ago to ignore the Cal hype machine. You should know that I am not a part of that. But, while recruiting could be better, I don't think it has been our main problem under Wilcox, although QB retention has been a problem under Musgrave for some reason. And, for that reason, the recent de-committment of the QB recruit Martin is a major blow. We need to land a JC transfer and coach him up quickly.

Folks are very critical of Musgrave, but he has improved the offense compared to Baldwin. Total offense this season is over 400 yards/game, something Baldwin never did in his 3 years here. yards/play is better too. What has not improved is scoring offense but that is partly due to field position. This year's defense is much worse than it was the 3 years Baldwin was here. The defense is getting better but Cal's defense from 2017-2019 was one of the best in the entire country. It is not that good this year.

In any case, I think the scoring will improve. Musgrave still hasn't even had a full season of games yet. He's at 10. He's got one of the most balanced offenses in the nation. It was clear that Baldwin was a bust pretty quickly, but he still got 3 years. I think we need to give Musgrave more of a chance and it is frustrating to me that the QBs keep leaving before giving him that chance.

BTW, I don't agree that the WRs are a bust. And I don't get the criticism of them. The ball has to get to them. They are open a good deal of the time. On screens, the ball has to lead them so they can get YAC before the DBs close in. It's a timing issue without much room for error. Garbers dumpoffs and screen passes are shoddy at best. Sure there have been some dropped balls, especially early in the season. But Crawford, Clark, Remigio and Hunter have all made critical catches late in games to save drives. And Tonges is probably one of the most under-appreciated Cal players in history. He's been a gamer from the start.

---

My criticism of the WR's is related to their inability to separate. Rarely, do you see an open target for Garbers (and when you do, he invariably misfires, maybe from the shock of seeing someone break free?). As a group, they lack speed. Therein lies the tale….

---

I respectfully disagree. Just because Garbers doesn't see them or throw to them doesn't mean they aren't open. You have to time it--throw them open. You can't wait until they are already open to throw it. This is how guys who have played QB for 30+ games normally operate. They get to a level where they can throw guys open. But Garbers hasn't really developed that. And you need vision and confidence to do that. Vision leads to confidence but Garbers does not see downfield well. And this is his major shortfall other than his dumpy dump off throws and screens and his inaccuracy downfield.

Do you have any actual metrics to support your claim that our WRs are slower than other WRs in the conference?

---

No need for metrics. I take the "Potter Stewart" approach. I watch the games and assess accordingly….

oski003 said:

---

HoopDreams said:

---

Well we did run a Garbers keeper in that series and it got stuffed for no gain

I think we needed a RB to run, for play action, or to pick up a blitz or #5

Instead empty backfield most of those plays

eabandit said:

---

I don't know. we needed seven yards to score and effectively had seven downs to do it.

our run game was effective all game. I'm a casual fan and don't know much about play calling but based on our performance all night and how Brooks and Garbers were both effective at gaining a handful of yards with each run...

line up for a pass to throw them off, and alternate runs between Brooks and Garbers until we score. seven tries. seven yards. either could sprint for the pylon.

idk why we were doing those boneheaded short passes in the red zone. maybe with another QB and tight end combo but it's clear garbers isn't great at rolling out and oline wasn't giving him quite enough time. plus not much room for receivers to get distance in the red zone.

it is just infuriating to me that red zone play calling didn't have us do short runs using two effective running weapons we had all game. we had the time outs to spare on this strategy too. (idk why we saved those TOs if we weren't going to use them for this)

ugh it's so infuriating and I bet the players feel similarly. those passes just don't work and with a working run scheme between garbers and brooks it is maddening why we didn't call plays that would get those seven yards.

---

---

1 keeper for Garbers and one where Garbers also ran on a read option to the rb

---

The keeper was like a draw both were slow developing rather than hitting them quickly to counter the intense pass rush.

concernedparent said:

---

We had like 8 downs and 3 timeouts to get 6 yards. Brooks is falling forward all night. So we go empty set and not hand it off to him again?

---

That's just what they were expecting us to do!

71Bear said:

---

heartofthebear said:

---

71Bear said:

---

heartofthebear said:

---

71Bear said:

---

heartofthebear said:

---

71Bear said:

---

heartofthebear said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

heartofthebear said:

---

82gradDLSdad said:

---

LunchTime said:

---

Strykur said:

---

wifeisafurd said:

---

Well the head coach might have suggested something different. Oh wait, Wilcox was on TV wandering around, while the offense huddled around Musgrave during all those time outs, and not involved with the offense on all those play calls. The Sonny Dykes of offensive delegation.

---

Dykes would have been alright if he had hired a good defensive coordinator and had not blown it with Buh, likewise Wilcox cannot seem to hire a decent offensive coordinator or figure out what offensive system he wants, in year 5.

---

Except Wilcox's defense also needs a better DC.

---

I think Wilcox is showing he's an average to above average DC. That's it. He has not assembled a good staff, he has not recruited well, he doesn't seem to make great game day strategy decisions...just nothing in the 5 years suggests he's going to turn this around.

---

I feel that recruiting on defense was pretty good initially, then there was a lull to help the offense catch up. I think he's recruiting okay on D again. He's had good LBs the whole time but he now has some really good DEs coming in and the DBs have a shot at being pretty good too.

---

I'll be honest, at the start of the season I thought our LBs were really bad, and they were. But they are young. They were actually really good vs Oregon though, so seems they are growing. Their tackling got a lot better.

---

We are actually going to be really deep at DE next season. If guys develop, we may actually have a pass rush. It has historically been very difficult for us to recruit the DL, particularly the interior. But we will have some serviceable people on the interior assuming they are healthy finally (Maldonado, Johnson and Mackenzie). We will lose Goode and Deng at OLB so there will definitely be a drop off but the DE strength might help mitigate that. I think folks are going to be pleasantly surprised by the DBs next season. However I'm not convinced that Watson is the right DB coach to develop them fully.

---

Geez, here we go…

Next year, bah, blah, blah….

Newsflash - the best thing, all guys are returning; the worst thing, all guys are returning.

Cal needs a major infusion of talent. They cannot count on the current bunch to do anything………

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What do you want? Do you want a bunch of 4 stars to sign up for the program right now without any evidence that it is going to support them? We have to get incrementally better in the meantime before a bunch of 4 stars sign up. Tedford had to do that. Snyder had to do that. Wilcox has recruited pretty well considering the circumstances, especially on D. We were failing to recruit on O under Baldwin but have improved considerably under Musgrave, although the QBs have been leaving unfortunately. But defense is about as good as can be expected under the circumstances.

The main problem isn't the recruiting right now, it is the coaching of that talent, especially on game day. The players are being poorly coordinated for success.

We do need to get faster though. We have been recruiting size lately, according to Wilcox. Maybe that was at the expense of speed. I don't know.

BTW, a lot of guys are not returning. And just because we don't have talent this year, does not mean we did not recruit it. It generally takes a year, at least, before guys see the field. Usually it is 2 years before guys have major roles. We have some talent waiting in the wings:

Safety
Williams
Losefa
Woodson
Barthe
Cornerback
Hearns III
Gamble
Higgins
McWilliams
Inside Linebacker
Paster
Rutchena
Losefa
Puskas
Antzoulatos
Outside Linebacker
Histake
Patu
Leremia
Williams
DT/NT/NG
Maldonado
Johnson
Roberts
DE
Wilkins
Calhoun
Saunders

Say what you like, but if Oregon St./Wash St. had these guys, they'd compete for a conference title.
And some of them are 4 star players. Most of them are upper 3 star at least. This is a major upgrade on what we had previously and puts us above average in the conference for recruiting at these positions.

What we could really use is a JC/Grad transfer at QB next season.

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Saying, "We are actually going to be really deep at DE next season" is a major red flag. It is the same **** we hear every year regarding a particular position group that winds up being a bust - this year, WR corps. I am certain the 23 guys you listed are nice guys and good students but I have grave doubts about them being kick-ass football players. Why should anyone believe anything that is written about the team? It has been nothing but an enormous flop since the end of 2019. I want to see them prove it first. Then we can talk. Until then, I can only hope they can beat UC Davis...

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I understand. Actually I looked up some of those names I listed and I think I overstated things. Sometimes I get confused between players, especially if they have the same last name. Anyway, I don't base what I say on what is written or said within the Cal community. I go to national sources for ratings or I use game stats.

I learned long ago to ignore the Cal hype machine. You should know that I am not a part of that. But, while recruiting could be better, I don't think it has been our main problem under Wilcox, although QB retention has been a problem under Musgrave for some reason. And, for that reason, the recent de-committment of the QB recruit Martin is a major blow. We need to land a JC transfer and coach him up quickly.

Folks are very critical of Musgrave, but he has improved the offense compared to Baldwin. Total offense this season is over 400 yards/game, something Baldwin never did in his 3 years here. yards/play is better too. What has not improved is scoring offense but that is partly due to field position. This year's defense is much worse than it was the 3 years Baldwin was here. The defense is getting better but Cal's defense from 2017-2019 was one of the best in the entire country. It is not that good this year.

In any case, I think the scoring will improve. Musgrave still hasn't even had a full season of games yet. He's at 10. He's got one of the most balanced offenses in the nation. It was clear that Baldwin was a bust pretty quickly, but he still got 3 years. I think we need to give Musgrave more of a chance and it is frustrating to me that the QBs keep leaving before giving him that chance.

BTW, I don't agree that the WRs are a bust. And I don't get the criticism of them. The ball has to get to them. They are open a good deal of the time. On screens, the ball has to lead them so they can get YAC before the DBs close in. It's a timing issue without much room for error. Garbers dumpoffs and screen passes are shoddy at best. Sure there have been some dropped balls, especially early in the season. But Crawford, Clark, Remigio and Hunter have all made critical catches late in games to save drives. And Tonges is probably one of the most under-appreciated Cal players in history. He's been a gamer from the start.

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My criticism of the WR's is related to their inability to separate. Rarely, do you see an open target for Garbers (and when you do, he invariably misfires, maybe from the shock of seeing someone break free?). As a group, they lack speed. Therein lies the tale….

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I respectfully disagree. Just because Garbers doesn't see them or throw to them doesn't mean they aren't open. You have to time it--throw them open. You can't wait until they are already open to throw it. This is how guys who have played QB for 30+ games normally operate. They get to a level where they can throw guys open. But Garbers hasn't really developed that. And you need vision and confidence to do that. Vision leads to confidence but Garbers does not see downfield well. And this is his major shortfall other than his dumpy dump off throws and screens and his inaccuracy downfield.

Do you have any actual metrics to support your claim that our WRs are slower than other WRs in the conference?

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No need for metrics. I take the "Potter Stewart" approach. I watch the games and assess accordingly….

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Well it's certainly not the first time 2 people have observed the same thing and seen 2 different things.

Lol

Keep your opponents guessing.

BearForce2 said:

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Keep your opponents guessing.

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Called the BYU formation (what we use to call it), We ran it a few times, normally it forces the defense to call a timeout lol