players and Wilcox

21,225 Views | 155 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by Bobodeluxe
3146gabby
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Various comments of players, especially in today's Chron present an important viewpoint on the current program/Wilcox.

When judging whether Wilcox is a good coach - and analyzing that within the confines of what makes Cal a difficult place for big time sports - the thoughts of the players are not of minimal value.

While winning is key, I want to support a program in which the players buy in and there are evident qualities conveyed by the coach which represent what we all feel is unique about Cal
maxer
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3146gabby said:

Various comments of players, especially in today's Chron present an important viewpoint on the current program/Wilcox.

When judging whether Wilcox is a good coach - and analyzing that within the confines of what makes Cal a difficult place for big time sports - the thoughts of the players are not of minimal value.

While winning is key, I want to support a program in which the players buy in and there are evident qualities conveyed by the coach which represent what we all feel is unique about Cal
I agree it's a data point that shouldn't be minimized.

It also would have been very easy for the team to spiral after the 1-5 start. They didn't.

It also would have been easy for the team to fall apart after the Covid fiasco. They didn't.

I think that speaks both to the character of the players, as well as Wilcox and his staff.
wifeisafurd
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Since this board loves to discuss history, it is important to note that the lack of player support is what did in Wilcox's predecessor. Wilcox has another year if he wants it, because he is a fit and because Cal really can't afford his severance.
PaulCali
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Agree. The fact that the team has not quit on Wilcox during very difficult times is a huge plus for him.
89Bear
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3146gabby said:

Various comments of players, especially in today's Chron present an important viewpoint on the current program/Wilcox.

When judging whether Wilcox is a good coach - and analyzing that within the confines of what makes Cal a difficult place for big time sports - the thoughts of the players are not of minimal value.

While winning is key, I want to support a program in which the players buy in and there are evident qualities conveyed by the coach which represent what we all feel is unique about Cal
Can't access the story. Can someone summarize please?

Thanks.
3146gabby
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sorry I am fully inept at copying....it can be found @ SFChron on line...perhaps another Bier can send....
3146gabby
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Just as they had done at Stanford Stadium two Saturdays earlier after the Bears had walloped the Cardinal in the Big Game, Cal fans poured on to the field at Memorial Stadium on Saturday night after the Bears beat USC 24-14 in the season finale.
The 2021 season gave pessimists and optimists about the Cal program reasons to maintain their beliefs.
The pessimists: The Bears finished 5-7 and haven't won more than eight games in a season since going 9-4 in 2008. They went 4-5 in Pac-12 play and haven't had a winning conference record since a 5-4 mark in 2009.

The optimists: The Bears won four of their final six games and almost assuredly would have made that five of six had coronavirus issues not dramatically thinned their roster in a 10-3 loss at Arizona on Nov. 6. Moreover, Cal's last two wins were against the teams fans care most about beating, Stanford and USC. The Bears hadn't beaten both schools in the same season since 2003.
The pessimists: Most of the players who fueled Cal's rebound in the second half of the season are seniors. To name a few: quarterback Chase Garbers, running back Christopher Brooks, wide receiver Trevon Clark, defensive lineman Luc Bequette, linebacker Cameron Goode and safeties Daniel Scott and Elijah Hicks.
The optimists: Some of those seniors have the chance to return in 2022 because of the NCAA's decision to not count the pandemic-shortened 2020 season against a player's eligibility limits. Moreover, many of the players particularly on defense who helped fuel Cal's rebound in the second half are underclassmen. To name a few: inside linebackers Nate Ruchena, Muelu Iosefa, Femi Oladejo and Trey Paster, and cornerbacks Lu-Magia Hearns III, Collin Gamble and Isaiah Young.

Cal's Trey Paster (27) heads to the end zone on a 55-yard fumble return in the second quarter of the Bears' 24-14 win over USC on Saturday night.
Michael Urakami/Getty Images
Paster was a key part of the most dramatic play against the Trojans. Hicks' hard hit forced a fumble by running back Darwin Barlow and Paster grabbed the loose ball and raced 55 yards near the Cal sideline for a touchdown that put the Bears up 17-7 late in the second quarter.

"We have a bright future," Paster said in a postgame Zoom news conference. "We're probably the most optimistic team in the Pac-12, and I truly mean that."

Cal quarterback Chase Garbers went 18-for-21 for 177 yards against USC on Saturday night.
Michael Urakami/Getty Images
Cal's 2022 outlook hinges in part on how many of the seniors who can return opt to do so. That starts with Garbers, who completed 18 of 21 passes for 177 yards against the Trojans. He ranks second in the Pac-12 in total offense at 271.7 yards per game (UCLA's Dorian Thompson-Robinson is at 274.4).
The only other Cal quarterback to throw a pass this season was Ryan Glover. The transfer who played previously for Western Carolina and Penn went 11-for-29 for 94 yards subbing for Garbers in the loss to the Wildcats.
Cal head coach Justin Wilcox, not speaking specifically about Garbers but about all the seniors, said he will give them guidance on what he believes will be the best decision for them individually.
"I've tried to not recruit 'em as hard (to stay at Cal) just because it's a tough decision," Wilcox said. "There's a lot to consider. We'll help 'em with any information that'll help 'em make that decision."
Depending on the individual, the options are try to go to the NFL, stay at Cal, transfer or end the playing career. Among the key players in addition to Garbers who will be making their choices in the next few weeks are Brooks, wide receiver/returner Nikko Remigio, tight end Jake Tonges and Scott.
Cornerback Josh Drayden won't have those options. His Cal career spanned six seasons. He'll leave the program as the career leader in games played with 55.
"After playing my last game, that's a good title to have. That's a great title to have," Drayden said.
Not surprisingly, Drayden expects big things from the Bears "The sky's the limit" but he also wanted to make sure he savored the scene following Saturday's night victory.

Cal fans come on to the field at Memorial Stadium after the Bears beat USC 24-14 on Saturday night
Steve Kroner/The Chronicle
"It was good to take in the moment, to live in the moment, to be in the moment, just to look around and see all your friends, family and teammates smiling," Drayden said.
"We've been through a lot of adversity this year, but to see … everybody so happy and joyful, that's something that I love and I'm happy that everybody got to experience that."

82gradDLSdad
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Could we use a better coach? Yes.
Is Knowlton likely to hire one? No.
Is there even a chance? Probably not.

Keep Wilcox.

Can't believe I'm saying this.
71Bear
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3146gabby said:


Just as they had done at Stanford Stadium two Saturdays earlier after the Bears had walloped the Cardinal in the Big Game, Cal fans poured on to the field at Memorial Stadium on Saturday night after the Bears beat USC 24-14 in the season finale.
The 2021 season gave pessimists and optimists about the Cal program reasons to maintain their beliefs.
The pessimists: The Bears finished 5-7 and haven't won more than eight games in a season since going 9-4 in 2008. They went 4-5 in Pac-12 play and haven't had a winning conference record since a 5-4 mark in 2009.

The optimists: The Bears won four of their final six games and almost assuredly would have made that five of six had coronavirus issues not dramatically thinned their roster in a 10-3 loss at Arizona on Nov. 6. Moreover, Cal's last two wins were against the teams fans care most about beating, Stanford and USC. The Bears hadn't beaten both schools in the same season since 2003.
The pessimists: Most of the players who fueled Cal's rebound in the second half of the season are seniors. To name a few: quarterback Chase Garbers, running back Christopher Brooks, wide receiver Trevon Clark, defensive lineman Luc Bequette, linebacker Cameron Goode and safeties Daniel Scott and Elijah Hicks.
The optimists: Some of those seniors have the chance to return in 2022 because of the NCAA's decision to not count the pandemic-shortened 2020 season against a player's eligibility limits. Moreover, many of the players particularly on defense who helped fuel Cal's rebound in the second half are underclassmen. To name a few: inside linebackers Nate Ruchena, Muelu Iosefa, Femi Oladejo and Trey Paster, and cornerbacks Lu-Magia Hearns III, Collin Gamble and Isaiah Young.

Cal's Trey Paster (27) heads to the end zone on a 55-yard fumble return in the second quarter of the Bears' 24-14 win over USC on Saturday night.
Michael Urakami/Getty Images
Paster was a key part of the most dramatic play against the Trojans. Hicks' hard hit forced a fumble by running back Darwin Barlow and Paster grabbed the loose ball and raced 55 yards near the Cal sideline for a touchdown that put the Bears up 17-7 late in the second quarter.

"We have a bright future," Paster said in a postgame Zoom news conference. "We're probably the most optimistic team in the Pac-12, and I truly mean that."

Cal quarterback Chase Garbers went 18-for-21 for 177 yards against USC on Saturday night.
Michael Urakami/Getty Images
Cal's 2022 outlook hinges in part on how many of the seniors who can return opt to do so. That starts with Garbers, who completed 18 of 21 passes for 177 yards against the Trojans. He ranks second in the Pac-12 in total offense at 271.7 yards per game (UCLA's Dorian Thompson-Robinson is at 274.4).
The only other Cal quarterback to throw a pass this season was Ryan Glover. The transfer who played previously for Western Carolina and Penn went 11-for-29 for 94 yards subbing for Garbers in the loss to the Wildcats.
Cal head coach Justin Wilcox, not speaking specifically about Garbers but about all the seniors, said he will give them guidance on what he believes will be the best decision for them individually.
"I've tried to not recruit 'em as hard (to stay at Cal) just because it's a tough decision," Wilcox said. "There's a lot to consider. We'll help 'em with any information that'll help 'em make that decision."
Depending on the individual, the options are try to go to the NFL, stay at Cal, transfer or end the playing career. Among the key players in addition to Garbers who will be making their choices in the next few weeks are Brooks, wide receiver/returner Nikko Remigio, tight end Jake Tonges and Scott.
Cornerback Josh Drayden won't have those options. His Cal career spanned six seasons. He'll leave the program as the career leader in games played with 55.
"After playing my last game, that's a good title to have. That's a great title to have," Drayden said.
Not surprisingly, Drayden expects big things from the Bears "The sky's the limit" but he also wanted to make sure he savored the scene following Saturday's night victory.

Cal fans come on to the field at Memorial Stadium after the Bears beat USC 24-14 on Saturday night
Steve Kroner/The Chronicle
"It was good to take in the moment, to live in the moment, to be in the moment, just to look around and see all your friends, family and teammates smiling," Drayden said.
"We've been through a lot of adversity this year, but to see … everybody so happy and joyful, that's something that I love and I'm happy that everybody got to experience that."


Who cares about pessimists and optimists?

What is important is to hear from the realists.

Improving team speed
Acquiring premier playmakers
Improving line play on both sides of the ball
Identifying and signing talent from the Transfer Portal
Improve recruiting
Improve coaching, particularly on the offensive side of the ball

The optimists would tell you all is well. Everything is wonderful. The pessimists would say Cal is in a hopeless situation. It will never get any better (and the excusemakers will prattle on about academics and why they are an obstacle to Cal signing quality players).

The realists would tell you that until the areas cited above are addressed, Cal will continue to wallow in mediocrityville. Once they are addressed, Cal will have a good chance of contending for a championship.




72CalBear
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71Bear said:

3146gabby said:


Just as they had done at Stanford Stadium two Saturdays earlier after the Bears had walloped the Cardinal in the Big Game, Cal fans poured on to the field at Memorial Stadium on Saturday night after the Bears beat USC 24-14 in the season finale.
The 2021 season gave pessimists and optimists about the Cal program reasons to maintain their beliefs.
The pessimists: The Bears finished 5-7 and haven't won more than eight games in a season since going 9-4 in 2008. They went 4-5 in Pac-12 play and haven't had a winning conference record since a 5-4 mark in 2009.

The optimists: The Bears won four of their final six games and almost assuredly would have made that five of six had coronavirus issues not dramatically thinned their roster in a 10-3 loss at Arizona on Nov. 6. Moreover, Cal's last two wins were against the teams fans care most about beating, Stanford and USC. The Bears hadn't beaten both schools in the same season since 2003.
The pessimists: Most of the players who fueled Cal's rebound in the second half of the season are seniors. To name a few: quarterback Chase Garbers, running back Christopher Brooks, wide receiver Trevon Clark, defensive lineman Luc Bequette, linebacker Cameron Goode and safeties Daniel Scott and Elijah Hicks.
The optimists: Some of those seniors have the chance to return in 2022 because of the NCAA's decision to not count the pandemic-shortened 2020 season against a player's eligibility limits. Moreover, many of the players particularly on defense who helped fuel Cal's rebound in the second half are underclassmen. To name a few: inside linebackers Nate Ruchena, Muelu Iosefa, Femi Oladejo and Trey Paster, and cornerbacks Lu-Magia Hearns III, Collin Gamble and Isaiah Young.

Cal's Trey Paster (27) heads to the end zone on a 55-yard fumble return in the second quarter of the Bears' 24-14 win over USC on Saturday night.
Michael Urakami/Getty Images
Paster was a key part of the most dramatic play against the Trojans. Hicks' hard hit forced a fumble by running back Darwin Barlow and Paster grabbed the loose ball and raced 55 yards near the Cal sideline for a touchdown that put the Bears up 17-7 late in the second quarter.

"We have a bright future," Paster said in a postgame Zoom news conference. "We're probably the most optimistic team in the Pac-12, and I truly mean that."

Cal quarterback Chase Garbers went 18-for-21 for 177 yards against USC on Saturday night.
Michael Urakami/Getty Images
Cal's 2022 outlook hinges in part on how many of the seniors who can return opt to do so. That starts with Garbers, who completed 18 of 21 passes for 177 yards against the Trojans. He ranks second in the Pac-12 in total offense at 271.7 yards per game (UCLA's Dorian Thompson-Robinson is at 274.4).
The only other Cal quarterback to throw a pass this season was Ryan Glover. The transfer who played previously for Western Carolina and Penn went 11-for-29 for 94 yards subbing for Garbers in the loss to the Wildcats.
Cal head coach Justin Wilcox, not speaking specifically about Garbers but about all the seniors, said he will give them guidance on what he believes will be the best decision for them individually.
"I've tried to not recruit 'em as hard (to stay at Cal) just because it's a tough decision," Wilcox said. "There's a lot to consider. We'll help 'em with any information that'll help 'em make that decision."
Depending on the individual, the options are try to go to the NFL, stay at Cal, transfer or end the playing career. Among the key players in addition to Garbers who will be making their choices in the next few weeks are Brooks, wide receiver/returner Nikko Remigio, tight end Jake Tonges and Scott.
Cornerback Josh Drayden won't have those options. His Cal career spanned six seasons. He'll leave the program as the career leader in games played with 55.
"After playing my last game, that's a good title to have. That's a great title to have," Drayden said.
Not surprisingly, Drayden expects big things from the Bears "The sky's the limit" but he also wanted to make sure he savored the scene following Saturday's night victory.

Cal fans come on to the field at Memorial Stadium after the Bears beat USC 24-14 on Saturday night
Steve Kroner/The Chronicle
"It was good to take in the moment, to live in the moment, to be in the moment, just to look around and see all your friends, family and teammates smiling," Drayden said.
"We've been through a lot of adversity this year, but to see … everybody so happy and joyful, that's something that I love and I'm happy that everybody got to experience that."


Who cares about pessimists and optimists?

What is important is to hear from the realists.

Improving team speed
Acquiring premier playmakers
Improving line play on both sides of the ball
Identifying and signing talent from the Transfer Portal
Improve recruiting
Improve coaching, particularly on the offensive side of the ball

The optimists would tell you all is well. Everything is wonderful. The pessimists would say Cal is in a hopeless situation. It will never get any better (and the excusemakers will prattle on about academics and why they are an obstacle to Cal signing quality players).

The realists would tell you that until the areas cited above are addressed, Cal will continue to wallow in mediocrityville. Once they are addressed, Cal will have a good chance of contending for a championship.


Please advise how to improve recruiting? If Nick Saban was here, would we get Alabama quality recruits? You would think they would come running to Ucla when Chip was hired, but what happened? It took over 4 years to even get a winning P12 record and a bowl game. Keep Wilcox for his team building and determined focus and lets turn the corner with character student-athletes.


3146gabby
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As to all 3 communities - optimists, pessimists, realists - it always seems a zero sum game in the analysis.

Reality is not what we need, but what is realistic in getting those needs filled.

There are serious extant limitations for football.e.g., narrowness in recruiting because of academic requirements, lack of historic success, too frequent turnover in coaches, etc. etc.

All of which has limited who would come here to coach. We are not going to get a nick saban.

I see significantly more plusses in Wilcox than negatives especially when factoring in what is reality right now. That the players buy in, don't give up, understand the many values of playing FB @ an academic institution like Cal, respond to adversity, and extol what is a one for all mentality, is big for me. But that is just me.


Cal_79
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Looking at a garden choked with weeds and saying over and over, "there are no weeds, everything is beautiful" is not being an optimist, it's being delusional. Being an optimist is seeing the garden for what it can be when the weeds are removed.
KoreAmBear
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82gradDLSdad said:

Could we use a better coach? Yes.
Is Knowlton likely to hire one? No.
Is there even a chance? Probably not.

Keep Wilcox.

Can't believe I'm saying this.

Wilcox has kept the locker room. The players seem to really like and respect him and the culture he's developed. Remember Evan Weaver boasting about our "culture" compared to UW's. This is super important, and I have to give Wilcox credit for that. He has proven to the players he has their back and that he's not a snakeoil salesman. That's very tough to do in this climate.

Now Holmoe was also a nice guy, although I am not sure he kept the locker room.

But Wilcox was not hired to be respected and liked. He was hired to win football games. So while I agree he should be given an extension, he also needs to be held more accountable especially with the offense and the next offensive coordinator he hires. We lost all our 50-50 type games (Nevada, TCU, UW, Oregon and AZ) because our offense could not get it done. We're in a NY6 bowl game if our offense came through.
71Bear
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3146gabby said:



As to all 3 communities - optimists, pessimists, realists - it always seems a zero sum game in the analysis.

Reality is not what we need, but what is realistic in getting those needs filled.

There are serious extant limitations for football.e.g., narrowness in recruiting because of academic requirements, lack of historic success, too frequent turnover in coaches, etc. etc.

All of which has limited who would come here to coach. We are not going to get a nick saban.

I see significantly more plusses in Wilcox than negatives especially when factoring in what is reality right now. That the players buy in, don't give up, understand the many values of playing FB @ an academic institution like Cal, respond to adversity, and extol what is a one for all mentality, is big for me. But that is just me.



First of all, the academic issue is absolute bull****. Stanford has commitments from 22 players, including 8 four stars and currently ranks 11th in the country. Cal has commitments from 10 players, including zero four stars and ranks 65th in the country. Source: 247 Sports. Note: I understand the size of a class varies due to availability of scholarships. However, the quality is something that shouldn't vary. It should always be stellar.

There is absolutely no reason that Cal cannot sign a Top 20 class every year, occasionally breaking into the Top Ten depending on the strength of the California-based class. If Stanford can sign a strong class, so can Cal. Period.

Historic success, particularly in the recent past, is a very big hurdle. That can be addressed by finding a "pied piper" type of recruit. Russell White is an excellent example of a recruit who caused others to think, "why not?" He led a resurgence of Cal football.

Turnover of coaches - absolutely an issue. Cal has long been known as the "graveyard of coaches". The key is hiring a guy who wants to be at Cal, understands the relationship of athletics to other departments within the campus community, and is an able coach.

While I have some significant concerns about Wilcox, I fully support bringing him back next year. My biggest concerns are whether he can bring in the talent necessary to compete for a conference championship and whether he can hire assistants who are capable of executing a complex game plan and motivating players to reach their maximum potential, this means hiring from a pool that includes only young, innovative coaches (retreads need not apply). At this time, I would not consider extending his contract. If he can produce an eight win season in 2022, that will be a very good sign given the talent that will be available.

Big C
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Cal_79 said:

Looking at a garden choked with weeds and saying over and over, "there are no weeds, everything is beautiful" is not being an optimist, it's being delusional. Being an optimist is seeing the garden for what it can be when the weeds are removed.

And having a good plan for getting the weeding done!
71Bear
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Cal_79 said:

Looking at a garden choked with weeds and saying over and over, "there are no weeds, everything is beautiful" is not being an optimist, it's being delusional. Being an optimist is seeing the garden for what it can be when the weeds are removed.
Agree. And I would say 60% of the people who post here fall into the delusional category….
calumnus
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3146gabby said:



As to all 3 communities - optimists, pessimists, realists - it always seems a zero sum game in the analysis.

Reality is not what we need, but what is realistic in getting those needs filled.

There are serious extant limitations for football.e.g., narrowness in recruiting because of academic requirements, lack of historic success, too frequent turnover in coaches, etc. etc.

All of which has limited who would come here to coach. We are not going to get a nick saban.

I see significantly more plusses in Wilcox than negatives especially when factoring in what is reality right now. That the players buy in, don't give up, understand the many values of playing FB @ an academic institution like Cal, respond to adversity, and extol what is a one for all mentality, is big for me. But that is just me.





"Frequent turnover in coaches"?

Cal has had 4 coaches in the last 25 years. In the PAC-12, only Whitingham and Shaw have been at their school longer than Wilcox and they have Rose Bowls and Top 10 finishes to justify that while Wilcox has a losing record. If anything, a stronger argument can be made that Cal hangs on to losing coaches too long. Successful programs are generally willing to cycle through coaches until they find a winner, the key is then keeping the coach that is an established winner, at least until they are not anymore, then trying again.

For the schools that are not traditional powers, the danger is, once the coach establishes themselves as a winner, they move on. For Stanford that was the case with Bill Walsh, Dennis Green and Tyrone Willingham. They hit paydirt with Harbaugh from FCS and Shaw, an alum and Bay Area native, as OC and long term successor. Note that Stanford is 3 for 3 with African American head coaches.

Shaw at Stanford and now Jonathan Smith at Oregon State show the advantage of "stepping stone" schools hiring alums. If they are successful they are more likely to stay.

As I've stated in other posts, I think it is likely we give Wilcox another year, and I am OK with that. I just hope we don't extend him, though there will be pressure to do so "for recruiting."
wifeisafurd
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71Bear said:

3146gabby said:


Just as they had done at Stanford Stadium two Saturdays earlier after the Bears had walloped the Cardinal in the Big Game, Cal fans poured on to the field at Memorial Stadium on Saturday night after the Bears beat USC 24-14 in the season finale.
The 2021 season gave pessimists and optimists about the Cal program reasons to maintain their beliefs.
The pessimists: The Bears finished 5-7 and haven't won more than eight games in a season since going 9-4 in 2008. They went 4-5 in Pac-12 play and haven't had a winning conference record since a 5-4 mark in 2009.

The optimists: The Bears won four of their final six games and almost assuredly would have made that five of six had coronavirus issues not dramatically thinned their roster in a 10-3 loss at Arizona on Nov. 6. Moreover, Cal's last two wins were against the teams fans care most about beating, Stanford and USC. The Bears hadn't beaten both schools in the same season since 2003.
The pessimists: Most of the players who fueled Cal's rebound in the second half of the season are seniors. To name a few: quarterback Chase Garbers, running back Christopher Brooks, wide receiver Trevon Clark, defensive lineman Luc Bequette, linebacker Cameron Goode and safeties Daniel Scott and Elijah Hicks.
The optimists: Some of those seniors have the chance to return in 2022 because of the NCAA's decision to not count the pandemic-shortened 2020 season against a player's eligibility limits. Moreover, many of the players particularly on defense who helped fuel Cal's rebound in the second half are underclassmen. To name a few: inside linebackers Nate Ruchena, Muelu Iosefa, Femi Oladejo and Trey Paster, and cornerbacks Lu-Magia Hearns III, Collin Gamble and Isaiah Young.

Cal's Trey Paster (27) heads to the end zone on a 55-yard fumble return in the second quarter of the Bears' 24-14 win over USC on Saturday night.
Michael Urakami/Getty Images
Paster was a key part of the most dramatic play against the Trojans. Hicks' hard hit forced a fumble by running back Darwin Barlow and Paster grabbed the loose ball and raced 55 yards near the Cal sideline for a touchdown that put the Bears up 17-7 late in the second quarter.

"We have a bright future," Paster said in a postgame Zoom news conference. "We're probably the most optimistic team in the Pac-12, and I truly mean that."

Cal quarterback Chase Garbers went 18-for-21 for 177 yards against USC on Saturday night.
Michael Urakami/Getty Images
Cal's 2022 outlook hinges in part on how many of the seniors who can return opt to do so. That starts with Garbers, who completed 18 of 21 passes for 177 yards against the Trojans. He ranks second in the Pac-12 in total offense at 271.7 yards per game (UCLA's Dorian Thompson-Robinson is at 274.4).
The only other Cal quarterback to throw a pass this season was Ryan Glover. The transfer who played previously for Western Carolina and Penn went 11-for-29 for 94 yards subbing for Garbers in the loss to the Wildcats.
Cal head coach Justin Wilcox, not speaking specifically about Garbers but about all the seniors, said he will give them guidance on what he believes will be the best decision for them individually.
"I've tried to not recruit 'em as hard (to stay at Cal) just because it's a tough decision," Wilcox said. "There's a lot to consider. We'll help 'em with any information that'll help 'em make that decision."
Depending on the individual, the options are try to go to the NFL, stay at Cal, transfer or end the playing career. Among the key players in addition to Garbers who will be making their choices in the next few weeks are Brooks, wide receiver/returner Nikko Remigio, tight end Jake Tonges and Scott.
Cornerback Josh Drayden won't have those options. His Cal career spanned six seasons. He'll leave the program as the career leader in games played with 55.
"After playing my last game, that's a good title to have. That's a great title to have," Drayden said.
Not surprisingly, Drayden expects big things from the Bears "The sky's the limit" but he also wanted to make sure he savored the scene following Saturday's night victory.

Cal fans come on to the field at Memorial Stadium after the Bears beat USC 24-14 on Saturday night
Steve Kroner/The Chronicle
"It was good to take in the moment, to live in the moment, to be in the moment, just to look around and see all your friends, family and teammates smiling," Drayden said.
"We've been through a lot of adversity this year, but to see … everybody so happy and joyful, that's something that I love and I'm happy that everybody got to experience that."


Who cares about pessimists and optimists?

What is important is to hear from the realists.

Improving team speed
Acquiring premier playmakers
Improving line play on both sides of the ball
Identifying and signing talent from the Transfer Portal
Improve recruiting
Improve coaching, particularly on the offensive side of the ball

The optimists would tell you all is well. Everything is wonderful. The pessimists would say Cal is in a hopeless situation. It will never get any better (and the excusemakers will prattle on about academics and why they are an obstacle to Cal signing quality players).

The realists would tell you that until the areas cited above are addressed, Cal will continue to wallow in mediocrityville. Once they are addressed, Cal will have a good chance of contending for a championship.





As a practical matter that is the right approach. Recruiting will suck and has stagnated due to a few issues, most of them related to overpromising the program and the C-19 debacle. Now the Portal with sophisticated players is a different narrative, and Wilcox should have the Portal on speed dial (and try to see how Kelly and KW do it). The lack of Portal players this last season is directly on Wilcox. Get team speed, etc. from the Portal. Upgrading offense and offensive unit coaching - good luck on that with Wilcox.
boredom
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KoreAmBear said:

82gradDLSdad said:

Could we use a better coach? Yes.
Is Knowlton likely to hire one? No.
Is there even a chance? Probably not.

Keep Wilcox.

Can't believe I'm saying this.

Wilcox has kept the locker room. The players seem to really like and respect him and the culture he's developed. Remember Evan Weaver boasting about our "culture" compared to UW's. This is super important, and I have to give Wilcox credit for that. He has proven to the players he has their back and that he's not a snakeoil salesman. That's very tough to do in this climate.

Now Holmoe was also a nice guy, although I am not sure he kept the locker room.

But Wilcox was not hired to be respected and liked. He was hired to win football games. So while I agree he should be given an extension, he also needs to be held more accountable especially with the offense and the next offensive coordinator he hires. We lost all our 50-50 type games (Nevada, TCU, UW, Oregon and AZ) because our offense could not get it done. We're in a NY6 bowl game if our offense came through.

I really don't understand this. It's 5 years of losing. Year 5 is the same as year 1 (arguably worse given that the opposition has gotten weaker). Why on earth should we extend him? He should be fired. If not fired, there should be 0 incremental financial commitment to him.

What's the rationale behind following "he was hired to win football games" with "he should be given an extension? He was hired to win games. He's lost 2/3 of his conference games. How does that lead to an extension?

What does being held accountable mean here? If we reward crap performance with contract extensions, how does that hold him accountable?

And I don't mean this at you personally, I see others saying similar things. I don't get it.
bearsandgiants
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We are definitely mid-tier or even better, in pac12 team character.
KoreAmBear
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boredom said:

KoreAmBear said:

82gradDLSdad said:

Could we use a better coach? Yes.
Is Knowlton likely to hire one? No.
Is there even a chance? Probably not.

Keep Wilcox.

Can't believe I'm saying this.

Wilcox has kept the locker room. The players seem to really like and respect him and the culture he's developed. Remember Evan Weaver boasting about our "culture" compared to UW's. This is super important, and I have to give Wilcox credit for that. He has proven to the players he has their back and that he's not a snakeoil salesman. That's very tough to do in this climate.

Now Holmoe was also a nice guy, although I am not sure he kept the locker room.

But Wilcox was not hired to be respected and liked. He was hired to win football games. So while I agree he should be given an extension, he also needs to be held more accountable especially with the offense and the next offensive coordinator he hires. We lost all our 50-50 type games (Nevada, TCU, UW, Oregon and AZ) because our offense could not get it done. We're in a NY6 bowl game if our offense came through.

I really don't understand this. It's 5 years of losing. Year 5 is the same as year 1 (arguably worse given that the opposition has gotten weaker). Why on earth should we extend him? He should be fired. If not fired, there should be 0 incremental financial commitment to him.

What's the rationale behind following "he was hired to win football games" with "he should be given an extension? He was hired to win games. He's lost 2/3 of his conference games. How does that lead to an extension?

What does being held accountable mean here? If we reward crap performance with contract extensions, how does that hold him accountable?

And I don't mean this at you personally, I see others saying similar things. I don't get it.
I think because Cal. He has held the locker room which is a huge win. He is kind of winning. We could do a lot worse, and with Knowlton, that's almost a guarantee. And maybe with an OC that has a clue, maybe we can break out of this mediocre cycle. Hence, extend him.
71Bear
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calumnus said:

3146gabby said:



As to all 3 communities - optimists, pessimists, realists - it always seems a zero sum game in the analysis.

Reality is not what we need, but what is realistic in getting those needs filled.

There are serious extant limitations for football.e.g., narrowness in recruiting because of academic requirements, lack of historic success, too frequent turnover in coaches, etc. etc.

All of which has limited who would come here to coach. We are not going to get a nick saban.

I see significantly more plusses in Wilcox than negatives especially when factoring in what is reality right now. That the players buy in, don't give up, understand the many values of playing FB @ an academic institution like Cal, respond to adversity, and extol what is a one for all mentality, is big for me. But that is just me.





"Frequent turnover in coaches"?

Cal has had 4 coaches in the last 25 years. In the PAC-12, only Whitingham and Shaw have been at their school longer than Wilcox and they have Rose Bowls and Top 10 finishes to justify that while Wilcox has a losing record. If anything, a stronger argument can be made that Cal hangs on to losing coaches too long. Successful programs are generally willing to cycle through coaches until they find a winner, the key is then keeping the coach that is an established winner, at least until they are not anymore, then trying again.

For the schools that are not traditional powers, the danger is, once the coach establishes themselves as a winner, they move on. For Stanford that was the case with Bill Walsh, Dennis Green and Tyrone Willingham. They hit paydirt with Harbaugh from FCS and Shaw, an alum and Bay Area native, as OC and long term successor. Note that Stanford is 3 for 3 with African American head coaches.

Shaw at Stanford and now Jonathan Smith at Oregon State show the advantage of "stepping stone" schools hiring alums. If they are successful they are more likely to stay.

As I've stated in other posts, I think it is likely we give Wilcox another year, and I am OK with that. I just hope we don't extend him, though there will be pressure to do so "for recruiting."
There are quite a number of Stanfordites who want to see Shaw fired. The biggest complaint is his unwillingness to get rid of deadwood assistants.
71Bear
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bearsandgiants said:

We are definitely mid-tier or even better, in pac12 team character.
That and a $1.95 will get you a cup of coffee. I want to see character AND positive on-field results. These are not mutually exclusive concepts……
89Bear
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KoreAmBear said:

boredom said:

KoreAmBear said:

82gradDLSdad said:

Could we use a better coach? Yes.
Is Knowlton likely to hire one? No.
Is there even a chance? Probably not.

Keep Wilcox.

Can't believe I'm saying this.

Wilcox has kept the locker room. The players seem to really like and respect him and the culture he's developed. Remember Evan Weaver boasting about our "culture" compared to UW's. This is super important, and I have to give Wilcox credit for that. He has proven to the players he has their back and that he's not a snakeoil salesman. That's very tough to do in this climate.

Now Holmoe was also a nice guy, although I am not sure he kept the locker room.

But Wilcox was not hired to be respected and liked. He was hired to win football games. So while I agree he should be given an extension, he also needs to be held more accountable especially with the offense and the next offensive coordinator he hires. We lost all our 50-50 type games (Nevada, TCU, UW, Oregon and AZ) because our offense could not get it done. We're in a NY6 bowl game if our offense came through.

I really don't understand this. It's 5 years of losing. Year 5 is the same as year 1 (arguably worse given that the opposition has gotten weaker). Why on earth should we extend him? He should be fired. If not fired, there should be 0 incremental financial commitment to him.

What's the rationale behind following "he was hired to win football games" with "he should be given an extension? He was hired to win games. He's lost 2/3 of his conference games. How does that lead to an extension?

What does being held accountable mean here? If we reward crap performance with contract extensions, how does that hold him accountable?

And I don't mean this at you personally, I see others saying similar things. I don't get it.
I think because Cal. He has held the locker room which is a huge win. He is kind of winning. We could do a lot worse, and with Knowlton, that's almost a guarantee. And maybe with an OC that has a clue, maybe we can break out of this mediocre cycle. Hence, extend him.
Games where the offense struggled:
How much was the OC and how much was Garbers?

To me that's the big question. I haven't broken down film, so I don't know the answer.
Cal Strong!
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The players said the same things about Tedford and Dykes. What sort of player would be dumb enough to slam their current coach in the media?
boredom
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KoreAmBear said:

boredom said:

KoreAmBear said:

82gradDLSdad said:

Could we use a better coach? Yes.
Is Knowlton likely to hire one? No.
Is there even a chance? Probably not.

Keep Wilcox.

Can't believe I'm saying this.

Wilcox has kept the locker room. The players seem to really like and respect him and the culture he's developed. Remember Evan Weaver boasting about our "culture" compared to UW's. This is super important, and I have to give Wilcox credit for that. He has proven to the players he has their back and that he's not a snakeoil salesman. That's very tough to do in this climate.

Now Holmoe was also a nice guy, although I am not sure he kept the locker room.

But Wilcox was not hired to be respected and liked. He was hired to win football games. So while I agree he should be given an extension, he also needs to be held more accountable especially with the offense and the next offensive coordinator he hires. We lost all our 50-50 type games (Nevada, TCU, UW, Oregon and AZ) because our offense could not get it done. We're in a NY6 bowl game if our offense came through.

I really don't understand this. It's 5 years of losing. Year 5 is the same as year 1 (arguably worse given that the opposition has gotten weaker). Why on earth should we extend him? He should be fired. If not fired, there should be 0 incremental financial commitment to him.

What's the rationale behind following "he was hired to win football games" with "he should be given an extension? He was hired to win games. He's lost 2/3 of his conference games. How does that lead to an extension?

What does being held accountable mean here? If we reward crap performance with contract extensions, how does that hold him accountable?

And I don't mean this at you personally, I see others saying similar things. I don't get it.
I think because Cal. He has held the locker room which is a huge win. He is kind of winning. We could do a lot worse, and with Knowlton, that's almost a guarantee. And maybe with an OC that has a clue, maybe we can break out of this mediocre cycle. Hence, extend him.

And what's the holding accountable part? "you continue to fail at your job. Here's more money and more years. And if you continue doing what you've been doing for half a decade plus these extra years then we'll... well, still have Knowlton in charge so uhh, just try to seem like a solid human being and you're good"?

He loses 60% of his conference games in the weakest PAC in a long time. We played 1 game against a ranked team all year and still finished 5-7 overall. That's with a roster full of seniors and super seniors. Finished behind noted powerhouses WSU (despite them firing their coach mid year) and OSU. This is "kind of winning"?

For me, things like "held the locker room" are necessary but not sufficient. It's in the same bucket as things like not embarrassing the school off the field. The primary thing is winning games, especially conference games. And relatedly, winning enough games to win the conference. Wilcox has shown nothing that indicates he's remotely close to doing that.

Imagine a school had a math teacher. That teacher was liked by her students. But the students consistently didn't learn much math. At some point swapping out textbooks or teacher's aides or whatever else isn't solving the issue - at some point the kids need to learn math or she's not really the person you want teaching math, no?

Imagine your company has a head of sales. Most of the sales people like him. But the sales team keeps missing quotas and you keep losing business to competitors. Maybe you swap out their admin or regional sales lead or whoever a couple times but at some point that person may not be right to lead your sales organization, no?
JSC 76
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Whenever I think we'd be better off without Wilcox I see an interview with Mike Saffell, who would run through a brick wall for Wilcox, and he's not even playing any more. I don't think I'd be willing to trade that kind of player-coach relationship.
BearSD
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calumnus said:


Shaw at Stanford and now Jonathan Smith at Oregon State show the advantage of "stepping stone" schools hiring alums. If they are successful they are more likely to stay.


This is the exact argument being made by the Oregon fans who support the Ducks hiring Wilcox.
calumnus
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Cal Strong! said:

The players said the same things about Tedford and Dykes. What sort of player would be dumb enough to slam their current coach in the media?


And Gilbertson and Holmoe. The disgruntled players keep it private, at least until they transfer or graduate.

However, I have no doubt that Wilcox is personally liked by the vast majority of the players. He seems like a very like-able person, and not all coaches are.
boredom
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one more thought for those who take the fatalistic "Knowlton is there so we can't change coaches" viewpoint. Knowlton did an awful job with the basketball hiring, no argument there. But how do you then think that Wilcox, who is 5 years into failing to deliver a dynamic offense, will do well with his next round of offensive staff hiring?

Personally, I don't think we're a very good OC away from anything better than 7-5ish and if we hired an OC that got us to 10+ wins I'd argue for making that OC the head coach. Mediocre qb play + zero playmakers = low ceiling offense.
Rushinbear
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wifeisafurd said:

Since this board loves to discuss history, it is important to note that the lack of player support is what did in Wilcox's predecessor. Wilcox has another year if he wants it, because he is a fit and because Cal really can't afford his severance.
This is a time when an AD must covertly update his hc candidate list and contacts. With 9 days til early signing, any move now would require immediate action, not another waste of money in a butt-covering consultant process.

It doesn't feel like a change is in the offing, but if he does his job, an AD must be ready to go. Or, he must go.
calumnus
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boredom said:

KoreAmBear said:

boredom said:

KoreAmBear said:

82gradDLSdad said:

Could we use a better coach? Yes.
Is Knowlton likely to hire one? No.
Is there even a chance? Probably not.

Keep Wilcox.

Can't believe I'm saying this.

Wilcox has kept the locker room. The players seem to really like and respect him and the culture he's developed. Remember Evan Weaver boasting about our "culture" compared to UW's. This is super important, and I have to give Wilcox credit for that. He has proven to the players he has their back and that he's not a snakeoil salesman. That's very tough to do in this climate.

Now Holmoe was also a nice guy, although I am not sure he kept the locker room.

But Wilcox was not hired to be respected and liked. He was hired to win football games. So while I agree he should be given an extension, he also needs to be held more accountable especially with the offense and the next offensive coordinator he hires. We lost all our 50-50 type games (Nevada, TCU, UW, Oregon and AZ) because our offense could not get it done. We're in a NY6 bowl game if our offense came through.

I really don't understand this. It's 5 years of losing. Year 5 is the same as year 1 (arguably worse given that the opposition has gotten weaker). Why on earth should we extend him? He should be fired. If not fired, there should be 0 incremental financial commitment to him.

What's the rationale behind following "he was hired to win football games" with "he should be given an extension? He was hired to win games. He's lost 2/3 of his conference games. How does that lead to an extension?

What does being held accountable mean here? If we reward crap performance with contract extensions, how does that hold him accountable?

And I don't mean this at you personally, I see others saying similar things. I don't get it.
I think because Cal. He has held the locker room which is a huge win. He is kind of winning. We could do a lot worse, and with Knowlton, that's almost a guarantee. And maybe with an OC that has a clue, maybe we can break out of this mediocre cycle. Hence, extend him.

And what's the holding accountable part? "you continue to fail at your job. Here's more money and more years. And if you continue doing what you've been doing for half a decade plus these extra years then we'll... well, still have Knowlton in charge so uhh, just try to seem like a solid human being and you're good"?

He loses 60% of his conference games in the weakest PAC in a long time. We played 1 game against a ranked team all year and still finished 5-7 overall. That's with a roster full of seniors and super seniors. Finished behind noted powerhouses WSU (despite them firing their coach mid year) and OSU. This is "kind of winning"?

For me, things like "held the locker room" are necessary but not sufficient. It's in the same bucket as things like not embarrassing the school off the field. The primary thing is winning games, especially conference games. And relatedly, winning enough games to win the conference. Wilcox has shown nothing that indicates he's remotely close to doing that.

Imagine a school had a math teacher. That teacher was liked by her students. But the students consistently didn't learn much math. At some point swapping out textbooks or teacher's aides or whatever else isn't solving the issue - at some point the kids need to learn math or she's not really the person you want teaching math, no?

Imagine your company has a head of sales. Most of the sales people like him. But the sales team keeps missing quotas and you keep losing business to competitors. Maybe you swap out their admin or regional sales lead or whoever a couple times but at some point that person may not be right to lead your sales organization, no?


Exactly. He isn't paid $3 million a year to be a nice guy. He is paid $3 million a year to be a nice guy that wins football games and competes for championships. I thought we might have turned a corner in recruiting, but now we lost the top recruits that I hoped would be difference makers.

That said, I am pretty sure he gets another year and I highly doubt he gets hired away by Oregon. Just so we don't extend him. He needs to be on the hot seat. We will see what super-duper seniors, recruits and transfers he ends up with. If we end up finding a budding star at QB and finish with a winning conference record, then maybe it is worth showing more patience than we already have.
UrsineMaximus
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Y'all watch the player interviews on YouTube?? Their trust and belief in Wilcox and the culture is genuine ~ they aren't faking this sh^t
KoreAmBear
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calumnus said:

Cal Strong! said:

The players said the same things about Tedford and Dykes. What sort of player would be dumb enough to slam their current coach in the media?


And Gilbertson and Holmoe. The disgruntled players keep it private, at least until they transfer or graduate.

However, I have no doubt that Wilcox is personally liked by the vast majority of the players. He seems like a very like-able person, and not all coaches are.


Well here's one (gone a while ago) that doesn't like Wilcox. Loyal to Sonny?


BearGoggles
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KoreAmBear said:

calumnus said:

Cal Strong! said:

The players said the same things about Tedford and Dykes. What sort of player would be dumb enough to slam their current coach in the media?


And Gilbertson and Holmoe. The disgruntled players keep it private, at least until they transfer or graduate.

However, I have no doubt that Wilcox is personally liked by the vast majority of the players. He seems like a very like-able person, and not all coaches are.


Well here's one (gone a while ago) that doesn't like Wilcox. Loyal to Sonny?



Didn't Allensworth lose his starting position for part of his senior year?
 
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