Cal subject to court order to reduce enrollment???

13,963 Views | 91 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by wifeisafurd
philly1121
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GivemTheAxe said:

philly1121 said:

GivemTheAxe said:

philly1121 said:

That's what these traditionalists don't understand. The CoB had a foolproof argument. Cap enrollment because of NIMBYism. University objects. CoB says - ok, cap enrollment of foreign and out of state students so that you can admit more California students. University loses in court. University now says it will admit more Cali students.

Apart from the enrollment cap - how can this be a bad thing for California students looking to get into Berkeley?

1. Cal will have to raise tuition to make up for the revenue lost by admitting fewer out of state students who pay higher tuition than in state students.
2. In state students lose benefits of having fellow students who have different backgrounds and view points from in-state students.
I had three good friends who were out of state students.
A. One was a half-Indian (Native American) (indigenous)(first peoples) and half-African American born and raised in British Columbia he had some very different perspectives on life in the USA.
B. Another was a student from Bombay/Mumbai. He was a brilliant EE and a crazy Cal FB fan Rally Commer.
C. Another was this really cute coed from New Jersey whom I married and now lives in California with me.
Ok. So they're raising tuition 2.4% for incoming 2022 freshman class. It amounts to - what - about $5-600? Ok, you got me on that one. Quite frankly - if my son got in (which I still don't think he will) - I would gladly pay it.

Your #2 is pretty laughable - a diversity argument? So - basically they will lose the benefit of someone from, say, New York? Or England? Eh, not buying it. To suggest that a Cali student would lose out on a complete or partial university experience simply because he's going to miss someone's perspective from Alabama or Wisconsin seems quite the stretch. The benefit of UC experience, particularly at Cal, is that one can immerse themselves in a wide variety of clubs, student social and academic groups - IF THEY CHOOSE.

And congrats on finding your bride at Cal. I also met my future wife at Cal. She was from a small agricultural, majority immigrant town in the Central Valley that I had never heard of, located in a part of California that I never thought I would see or live in. And when I went to meet her family for the first time, it was a gigantic culture shock that made me rethink alot of my own biases and perspectives. I've learned and feel I'm better for it. And now I live in Fresno. See - diverse perspectives come from Cali too.

Thanks for your comments but if you think that the tuition hike will be only $500-$600 very long you will be very mistaken. That is just the starting point.
And while you may be willing to gladly pay that extra amount. Remember that Cal has a large number of Pell grant students who have difficulty paying even the current tuition.
My wife and I donate to several Cal alumni scholarships. If you listen to the reports by some of recipients of those scholarships their stories are heart breaking. While it might be easy for you to come up with an extra $500-$600 in tuition , it is quite a struggle for them. Especially when you consider the other non-tuition costs of attending Cal.

When was a student at Cal the state covered between 80-90% of the costs of Cal. This year that number will be 10%. The rest is made up by federal grants, fund raising extraordinary donation and TUITION.

The current tuition is already a barrier for qualified California students from low income families Higher tuition will make this worse and will worsen the large income disparity that already exists

I came to Cal when tuition was $50 per semester. The rest of the money I needed My family was a poor Latino family I made that up with part time and summer jobs The low tuition allowed me to grt


The fee hike raises it 2.4% I believe and I don't believe the incoming student will experience any additional fee hike while at Cal. Or at least during a 5-6 year period. I would have to go back and look. But are you seriously saying that, if there is an enrollment cap, you would rather reduce the number of California students that would be eligible for admission in favor of foreign and out of state students - simply because you feel they would balance the books better? Is that where we're at now? You don't think the state is diverse enough to offer qualified underrepresented students who live in California a chance over an out of state or foreign one?

harebear
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philbert
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non-NYT subscriber story. still a ways to go

https://www.wral.com/legislative-fix-could-let-uc-berkeley-admit-more-students/20182361/
DiabloWags
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6:00 KPIX NEWS:

Assemblyman Phil Ting and others brought about bills in the State Legislature that allows for an increase in enrollment at CAL for the Fall.

There will be a hearing on Monday and something can show up on the Gov's desk sometime next week.

It will also give CAL 18 months to make some changes.

WalterSobchak
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The interview is priceless. Thanks for the tip.
https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2022/03/11/uc-berkeley-enrollment-lawsuit-legislative-fix/
DiabloWags
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WalterSobchak said:

The interview is priceless. Thanks for the tip.
https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2022/03/11/uc-berkeley-enrollment-lawsuit-legislative-fix/



I just had to replay it.
The F Bomb by a student is CLASSIC!


Sebastabear
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DiabloWags said:

WalterSobchak said:

The interview is priceless. Thanks for the tip.
https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2022/03/11/uc-berkeley-enrollment-lawsuit-legislative-fix/



I just had to replay it.
The F Bomb by a student is CLASSIC!



Couldn't have said it better myself.
Cal84
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Wait, so the California Assembly and the Gov actually did something useful in a timely manner? Hold the 'effing presses.
BearSD
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Yup. Legislature passed it, governor signed it.

The selfish multimillionaire NIMBYs lose this time.

https://www.gov.ca.gov/2022/03/14/governor-newsom-signs-legislation-to-ensure-access-for-incoming-uc-berkeley-students/
calumnus
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BearSD said:

Yup. Legislature passed it, governor signed it.

The selfish multimillionaire NIMBYs lose this time.

https://www.gov.ca.gov/2022/03/14/governor-newsom-signs-legislation-to-ensure-access-for-incoming-uc-berkeley-students/


Bill authored by Berkeley's State rep Nancy Skinner, Cal BA and MA
HighlandDutch
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calumnus said:

BearSD said:

Yup. Legislature passed it, governor signed it.

The selfish multimillionaire NIMBYs lose this time.

https://www.gov.ca.gov/2022/03/14/governor-newsom-signs-legislation-to-ensure-access-for-incoming-uc-berkeley-students/


Bill authored by Berkeley's State rep Nancy Skinner, Cal BA and MA
That was the budget bill the Governor also signed. I think this bill was authored by Phil Ting.
DiabloWags
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HighlandDutch said:

calumnus said:

BearSD said:

Yup. Legislature passed it, governor signed it.

The selfish multimillionaire NIMBYs lose this time.

https://www.gov.ca.gov/2022/03/14/governor-newsom-signs-legislation-to-ensure-access-for-incoming-uc-berkeley-students/


Bill authored by Berkeley's State rep Nancy Skinner, Cal BA and MA
That was the budget bill the Governor also signed. I think this bill was authored by Phil Ting.


You are correct.
It was Phil Ting.
Cal BA, Harvard MA
calumnus
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DiabloWags said:

HighlandDutch said:

calumnus said:

BearSD said:

Yup. Legislature passed it, governor signed it.

The selfish multimillionaire NIMBYs lose this time.

https://www.gov.ca.gov/2022/03/14/governor-newsom-signs-legislation-to-ensure-access-for-incoming-uc-berkeley-students/


Bill authored by Berkeley's State rep Nancy Skinner, Cal BA and MA
That was the budget bill the Governor also signed. I think this bill was authored by Phil Ting.


You are correct.
It was Phil Ting.
Cal BA, Harvard MA



Yes, also a Cal alum but repreeenting San Francisco.
Big C
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Cal84 said:

Wait, so the California Assembly and the Gov actually did something useful in a timely manner? Hold the 'effing presses.

Almost surprising, isn't it?

Government is not the problem. Poor government is the problem. Government can be a solution to problems, although that's often easier said than done.
KenBurnski
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Does this mean that Phil B lost the battle AND the war?
Sebastabear
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KenBurnski said:

Does this mean that Phil B lost the battle AND the war?
Battle yes. His Waterloo though is still on the horizon. Will send him a crate of foie gras and caviar when he loses it all. Luckily he'll know the correct wine pairings for both.
Cal8285
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Sebastabear said:

KenBurnski said:

Does this mean that Phil B lost the battle AND the war?
Battle yes. His Waterloo though is still on the horizon. Will send him a crate of foie gras and caviar when he loses it all. Luckily he'll know the correct wine pairings for both.
I'm not sure March 2022 is the best time for war metaphors that may accurately apply to Phil B, but they are out there.

How often in war do those who choose to start combat end up much worse off than if they had let their grievance (or in certain cases, desired power grab) just go? Not always, but much of the time. This may well be one of those times for Phil B.

Only occasionally does winning multiple battles end up costing the war. This is probably one of those times. If the judge hadn't so stupidly ordered an enrollment cap, giving a huge win to Phil B, and if Cal's attorneys don't screw up in failing to do what they should have to get a stay of the enrollment cap from the appellate court, another Phil win, and if the State Supreme Court had done what it should have done, not just looked at the parties to the litigation but third party interests, and issued the stay, another Phil win, would the legislature be stepping up to do anything to help Cal? If Phil got what he wanted without the enrollment cap, where would things be? In this case, the result of winning three battles may well be that Phil ends up worse off that if he hadn't gone to war.

I think Phil was seeing the writing on the wall with the "we'll let in 1,000 more if you quit fighting me" offer. It probably didn't matter, but that offer only helped send a message to the legislature and governor that somebody needed to put a stop to NIMBY's trying to negotiate with the University over what should be legislative policy.

Yeah, the war isn't over, and there are CEQA fixes that need to be made that go beyond Phil's war, but Phil's war is definitely not looking good for him right now.

DiabloWags
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Excellent post.
Thanks!
GivemTheAxe
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BearSD said:

Yup. Legislature passed it, governor signed it.

The selfish multimillionaire NIMBYs lose this time.

https://www.gov.ca.gov/2022/03/14/governor-newsom-signs-legislation-to-ensure-access-for-incoming-uc-berkeley-students/

They lose twice.
1. They lost because Cal has 18 months to come up with a plan that means that increases for 2022 and for 2023 can still be imposed

2. Phil Ting pointed out the hypocrisy of the parties seeking to impose the Cap. They did so on the grounds there was insufficient student housing. Yet they also filed a suit to stop increases in student housing.
Mr Ting pointed out that the Ca legislature would pass more money for student housing.

wifeisafurd
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anyone know when the appeals court hears the appeal?
HighlandDutch
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Isn't any appeal now moot?
wifeisafurd
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HighlandDutch said:

Isn't any appeal now moot?

I think so. The appeal is on the merits of the Judge's decision that enrollment increases constitute a project for CEQA purposes. The legislation that was passed, as I understand it, just gives Cal an extra time period to comply with CEQA, and thus overturned the Judge's order to stop enrollment increases now. There is legislation pending that would also overturn the substance of the Judge's decision (as opposed to his order) by exempting student housing from CEQA, which I believe has not passed. If this legislation did pass, the appeal would be moot. If not the appeal on the case merits would be heard, and if the case is overturned by appeals court, that would make Cal's compliance with CEQA for purposes of enrollment increases moot, I think. Would welcome any clarifications.
 
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