Are we approaching the end of the road for the Pac-12 Networks as we know them?

I certainly hope so. "Abject failure" would be a charitable characterization of this venture. Depending on the deal Kliavkoff can make, dissolving the PAC-12 Network might be the best move. The good news is that, unlike Larry Scott and whatever he brought to the table (other than his ego, that remains a mystery) Kliavkoff has a solid understanding of media and entertainment, so he may be able to resurrect a viable in-house broadcast model. Either way, it's on him to come up with the programming model that best compensates the conference schools, maximizes visibility, and is sustainable until the next round of negotiations. The actual architecture should be secondary to those concerns.

sycasey said:

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Seems like we may be in the endgame for this failed venture. I liked the idea of the conference having its own network, but it always seemed overstretched with (1) all the regional channels and (2) trying to go it alone rather than partnering with ESPN or Fox. Not being on DirecTV after all these years (where the biggest sports fans watch sports) was a massive failure.

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Yup, I had a friend who was a producer at Pac-12 networks who told me that they had a party all ready to go and were about to "pop" open the champagne for a new national TV deal . . . and then the word came out that the deal was terminated and so was the celebration party. Apparently, Larry Scott was trying to still negotiate a "better" deal in the 11th hour and overplayed his hand. The office literally went from a party that was already set up to celebrate, to a funeral, all in the same afternoon.

Epic Fail.

Just make sure games are televised nationally…

sycasey said:

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Are we approaching the end of the road for the Pac-12 Networks as we know them?

https://awfulannouncing.com/league-networks/end-of-the-pac-12-network.html

I would bet (heavily) that all football games are pulled from the Pac-12 Networks in next media cycle.

Conference cannot afford to have its most valuable inventory on outlet with such limited reach https://t.co/u6nCrIAzjU

— Jon Wilner (@wilnerhotline) June 21, 2022

Seems like we may be in the endgame for this failed venture. I liked the idea of the conference having its own network, but it always seemed overstretched with (1) all the regional channels and (2) trying to go it alone rather than partnering with ESPN or Fox. Not being on DirecTV after all these years (where the biggest sports fans watch sports) was a massive failure.

---

It's the end game because ESPN has a heavy thumb on what conferences (and hence, which teams) are highly promoted and ranked. This has a not insignificant impact on post-season seeding. Sure, there's an "independent" committee that ranks and ultimately selects the teams for the championship playoffs, but it would be disingenuous to claim they're not influenced by the media polls, of which ESPN is a major player. This excludes the influence that ESPN's broadcasting decisions make, which can lead to schools/conferences being buried/ignored by everyone east of the Rockies, which further hurts schools that are competing for a spot in the playoffs. By playing by ESPN's rules, the SEC and B1G-10/14 end up getting more promotion and higher ranked. They thus end up with more teams in the playoffs, which leads to more money and more air time (two great tools for recruiting). By refusing to go along with ESPN's rules, Cal (and the Pac-12) saw less promotion and lower rankings and the consequences that come with that.

Thanks Larry

01Bear said:

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sycasey said:

---

Are we approaching the end of the road for the Pac-12 Networks as we know them?

https://awfulannouncing.com/league-networks/end-of-the-pac-12-network.html

I would bet (heavily) that all football games are pulled from the Pac-12 Networks in next media cycle.

Conference cannot afford to have its most valuable inventory on outlet with such limited reach https://t.co/u6nCrIAzjU

— Jon Wilner (@wilnerhotline) June 21, 2022

Seems like we may be in the endgame for this failed venture. I liked the idea of the conference having its own network, but it always seemed overstretched with (1) all the regional channels and (2) trying to go it alone rather than partnering with ESPN or Fox. Not being on DirecTV after all these years (where the biggest sports fans watch sports) was a massive failure.

---

It's the end game because ESPN has a heavy thumb on what conferences (and hence, which teams) are highly promoted and ranked. This has a not insignificant impact on post-season seeding. Sure, there's an "independent" committee that ranks and ultimately selects the teams for the championship playoffs, but it would be disingenuous to claim they're not influenced by the media polls, of which ESPN is a major player. This excludes the influence that ESPN's broadcasting decisions make, which can lead to schools/conferences being buried/ignored by everyone east of the Rockies, which further hurts schools that are competing for a spot in the playoffs. By playing by ESPN's rules, the SEC and B1G-10/14 end up getting more promotion and higher ranked. They thus end up with more teams in the playoffs, which leads to more money and more air time (two great tools for recruiting). By refusing to go along with ESPN's rules, Cal (and the Pac-12) saw less promotion and lower rankings and the consequences that come with that.

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Not having our network available nationally on major carriers also surely played a role here.

annarborbear said:

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Add to Larry's mistakes, unlike the Big Ten and the SEC, he had the PAC12 Network feature a lot of non-revenue sports for which there is near zero audience interest.

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True.

And Direct TV literally told Larry (in an effort to give him a reality check) that they have more of an audience in the greater Los Angeles metro area for the SEC Conference than for Pac-12 Football. - - - Once again, Larry overpromised and under-delivered.

Kliavkoff had something to say about this recently -- implied that P12N will go away, and its content will be divided between "linear" (i.e., ESPN/ABC or FS1/Fox) and streaming providers.

https://www.johncanzano.com/p/canzano-george-kliavkoffs-first-year?sd=pf

Quote:

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"It's more likely than not that our Tier 1 rights, the biggest of our football games, will continue to be distributed on linear television. The balance of our rights, the content that often sits on the Pac-12 Network, is likely to be distributed on a combination of linear and digital players."

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I need to know what network the Pac-12 network games (Cal) will be on ASAP.

going4roses said:

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I need to know what network the Pac-12 network games (Cal) will be on ASAP.

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Still on P12N for 2022 and 2023. Next TV deals won't begin until fall 2024.

Oops thanks I missed that part

The earliest us locals would have to worry about watching a game on PAC-12 Network would be October 1 when we play at Washington State, everything else before then is either home or at Notre Dame which will be on NBC.

sycasey said:

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01Bear said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Are we approaching the end of the road for the Pac-12 Networks as we know them?

https://awfulannouncing.com/league-networks/end-of-the-pac-12-network.html

I would bet (heavily) that all football games are pulled from the Pac-12 Networks in next media cycle.

Conference cannot afford to have its most valuable inventory on outlet with such limited reach https://t.co/u6nCrIAzjU

— Jon Wilner (@wilnerhotline) June 21, 2022

Seems like we may be in the endgame for this failed venture. I liked the idea of the conference having its own network, but it always seemed overstretched with (1) all the regional channels and (2) trying to go it alone rather than partnering with ESPN or Fox. Not being on DirecTV after all these years (where the biggest sports fans watch sports) was a massive failure.

---

It's the end game because ESPN has a heavy thumb on what conferences (and hence, which teams) are highly promoted and ranked. This has a not insignificant impact on post-season seeding. Sure, there's an "independent" committee that ranks and ultimately selects the teams for the championship playoffs, but it would be disingenuous to claim they're not influenced by the media polls, of which ESPN is a major player. This excludes the influence that ESPN's broadcasting decisions make, which can lead to schools/conferences being buried/ignored by everyone east of the Rockies, which further hurts schools that are competing for a spot in the playoffs. By playing by ESPN's rules, the SEC and B1G-10/14 end up getting more promotion and higher ranked. They thus end up with more teams in the playoffs, which leads to more money and more air time (two great tools for recruiting). By refusing to go along with ESPN's rules, Cal (and the Pac-12) saw less promotion and lower rankings and the consequences that come with that.

---

Not having our network available nationally on major carriers also surely played a role here.

---

Absolutely! There's no dispute there.

But ESPN dictating that Pac-12 games start at 10pm EDT also meant no one on the (l)east coast would watch Pac-12 games anyway, excepting those who had ties to Pac-12 schools.

01Bear said:

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sycasey said:

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01Bear said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Are we approaching the end of the road for the Pac-12 Networks as we know them?

https://awfulannouncing.com/league-networks/end-of-the-pac-12-network.html

I would bet (heavily) that all football games are pulled from the Pac-12 Networks in next media cycle.

Conference cannot afford to have its most valuable inventory on outlet with such limited reach https://t.co/u6nCrIAzjU

— Jon Wilner (@wilnerhotline) June 21, 2022

Seems like we may be in the endgame for this failed venture. I liked the idea of the conference having its own network, but it always seemed overstretched with (1) all the regional channels and (2) trying to go it alone rather than partnering with ESPN or Fox. Not being on DirecTV after all these years (where the biggest sports fans watch sports) was a massive failure.

---

It's the end game because ESPN has a heavy thumb on what conferences (and hence, which teams) are highly promoted and ranked. This has a not insignificant impact on post-season seeding. Sure, there's an "independent" committee that ranks and ultimately selects the teams for the championship playoffs, but it would be disingenuous to claim they're not influenced by the media polls, of which ESPN is a major player. This excludes the influence that ESPN's broadcasting decisions make, which can lead to schools/conferences being buried/ignored by everyone east of the Rockies, which further hurts schools that are competing for a spot in the playoffs. By playing by ESPN's rules, the SEC and B1G-10/14 end up getting more promotion and higher ranked. They thus end up with more teams in the playoffs, which leads to more money and more air time (two great tools for recruiting). By refusing to go along with ESPN's rules, Cal (and the Pac-12) saw less promotion and lower rankings and the consequences that come with that.

---

Not having our network available nationally on major carriers also surely played a role here.

---

Absolutely! There's no dispute there.

But ESPN dictating that Pac-12 games start at 10pm EDT also meant no one on the (l)east coast would watch Pac-12 games anyway, excepting those who had ties to Pac-12 schools.

---

It's not that simple. East coast fans are also not watching pac-12 games in the day time when it's up against SEC games.

GMP said:

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01Bear said:

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sycasey said:

---

01Bear said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Are we approaching the end of the road for the Pac-12 Networks as we know them?

https://awfulannouncing.com/league-networks/end-of-the-pac-12-network.html

I would bet (heavily) that all football games are pulled from the Pac-12 Networks in next media cycle.

Conference cannot afford to have its most valuable inventory on outlet with such limited reach https://t.co/u6nCrIAzjU

— Jon Wilner (@wilnerhotline) June 21, 2022

Seems like we may be in the endgame for this failed venture. I liked the idea of the conference having its own network, but it always seemed overstretched with (1) all the regional channels and (2) trying to go it alone rather than partnering with ESPN or Fox. Not being on DirecTV after all these years (where the biggest sports fans watch sports) was a massive failure.

---

It's the end game because ESPN has a heavy thumb on what conferences (and hence, which teams) are highly promoted and ranked. This has a not insignificant impact on post-season seeding. Sure, there's an "independent" committee that ranks and ultimately selects the teams for the championship playoffs, but it would be disingenuous to claim they're not influenced by the media polls, of which ESPN is a major player. This excludes the influence that ESPN's broadcasting decisions make, which can lead to schools/conferences being buried/ignored by everyone east of the Rockies, which further hurts schools that are competing for a spot in the playoffs. By playing by ESPN's rules, the SEC and B1G-10/14 end up getting more promotion and higher ranked. They thus end up with more teams in the playoffs, which leads to more money and more air time (two great tools for recruiting). By refusing to go along with ESPN's rules, Cal (and the Pac-12) saw less promotion and lower rankings and the consequences that come with that.

---

Not having our network available nationally on major carriers also surely played a role here.

---

Absolutely! There's no dispute there.

But ESPN dictating that Pac-12 games start at 10pm EDT also meant no one on the (l)east coast would watch Pac-12 games anyway, excepting those who had ties to Pac-12 schools.

---

It's not that simple. East coast fans are also not watching pac-12 games in the day time when it's up against SEC games.

---

Yup, unless we can get some of our teams back in the playoff hunt.

GMP said:

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01Bear said:

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sycasey said:

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01Bear said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Are we approaching the end of the road for the Pac-12 Networks as we know them?

https://awfulannouncing.com/league-networks/end-of-the-pac-12-network.html

I would bet (heavily) that all football games are pulled from the Pac-12 Networks in next media cycle.

Conference cannot afford to have its most valuable inventory on outlet with such limited reach https://t.co/u6nCrIAzjU

— Jon Wilner (@wilnerhotline) June 21, 2022

Seems like we may be in the endgame for this failed venture. I liked the idea of the conference having its own network, but it always seemed overstretched with (1) all the regional channels and (2) trying to go it alone rather than partnering with ESPN or Fox. Not being on DirecTV after all these years (where the biggest sports fans watch sports) was a massive failure.

---

It's the end game because ESPN has a heavy thumb on what conferences (and hence, which teams) are highly promoted and ranked. This has a not insignificant impact on post-season seeding. Sure, there's an "independent" committee that ranks and ultimately selects the teams for the championship playoffs, but it would be disingenuous to claim they're not influenced by the media polls, of which ESPN is a major player. This excludes the influence that ESPN's broadcasting decisions make, which can lead to schools/conferences being buried/ignored by everyone east of the Rockies, which further hurts schools that are competing for a spot in the playoffs. By playing by ESPN's rules, the SEC and B1G-10/14 end up getting more promotion and higher ranked. They thus end up with more teams in the playoffs, which leads to more money and more air time (two great tools for recruiting). By refusing to go along with ESPN's rules, Cal (and the Pac-12) saw less promotion and lower rankings and the consequences that come with that.

---

Not having our network available nationally on major carriers also surely played a role here.

---

Absolutely! There's no dispute there.

But ESPN dictating that Pac-12 games start at 10pm EDT also meant no one on the (l)east coast would watch Pac-12 games anyway, excepting those who had ties to Pac-12 schools.

---

It's not that simple. East coast fans are also not watching pac-12 games in the day time when it's up against SEC games.

---

And ACC and B1G. The 9 or 10 pm EST slot can be really good because we have no real competition then, East Coast sports fans are done watching their games (including in person) and the bars are full and have to have something on TV.

sycasey said:

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GMP said:

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01Bear said:

---

sycasey said:

---

01Bear said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Are we approaching the end of the road for the Pac-12 Networks as we know them?

https://awfulannouncing.com/league-networks/end-of-the-pac-12-network.html

I would bet (heavily) that all football games are pulled from the Pac-12 Networks in next media cycle.

Conference cannot afford to have its most valuable inventory on outlet with such limited reach https://t.co/u6nCrIAzjU

— Jon Wilner (@wilnerhotline) June 21, 2022

Seems like we may be in the endgame for this failed venture. I liked the idea of the conference having its own network, but it always seemed overstretched with (1) all the regional channels and (2) trying to go it alone rather than partnering with ESPN or Fox. Not being on DirecTV after all these years (where the biggest sports fans watch sports) was a massive failure.

---

It's the end game because ESPN has a heavy thumb on what conferences (and hence, which teams) are highly promoted and ranked. This has a not insignificant impact on post-season seeding. Sure, there's an "independent" committee that ranks and ultimately selects the teams for the championship playoffs, but it would be disingenuous to claim they're not influenced by the media polls, of which ESPN is a major player. This excludes the influence that ESPN's broadcasting decisions make, which can lead to schools/conferences being buried/ignored by everyone east of the Rockies, which further hurts schools that are competing for a spot in the playoffs. By playing by ESPN's rules, the SEC and B1G-10/14 end up getting more promotion and higher ranked. They thus end up with more teams in the playoffs, which leads to more money and more air time (two great tools for recruiting). By refusing to go along with ESPN's rules, Cal (and the Pac-12) saw less promotion and lower rankings and the consequences that come with that.

---

Not having our network available nationally on major carriers also surely played a role here.

---

Absolutely! There's no dispute there.

But ESPN dictating that Pac-12 games start at 10pm EDT also meant no one on the (l)east coast would watch Pac-12 games anyway, excepting those who had ties to Pac-12 schools.

---

It's not that simple. East coast fans are also not watching pac-12 games in the day time when it's up against SEC games.

---

Yup, unless we can get some of our teams back in the playoff hunt.

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Exactly this! It's a feedback loop.

GMP said:

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01Bear said:

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sycasey said:

---

01Bear said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Are we approaching the end of the road for the Pac-12 Networks as we know them?

https://awfulannouncing.com/league-networks/end-of-the-pac-12-network.html

I would bet (heavily) that all football games are pulled from the Pac-12 Networks in next media cycle.

Conference cannot afford to have its most valuable inventory on outlet with such limited reach https://t.co/u6nCrIAzjU

— Jon Wilner (@wilnerhotline) June 21, 2022

Seems like we may be in the endgame for this failed venture. I liked the idea of the conference having its own network, but it always seemed overstretched with (1) all the regional channels and (2) trying to go it alone rather than partnering with ESPN or Fox. Not being on DirecTV after all these years (where the biggest sports fans watch sports) was a massive failure.

---

It's the end game because ESPN has a heavy thumb on what conferences (and hence, which teams) are highly promoted and ranked. This has a not insignificant impact on post-season seeding. Sure, there's an "independent" committee that ranks and ultimately selects the teams for the championship playoffs, but it would be disingenuous to claim they're not influenced by the media polls, of which ESPN is a major player. This excludes the influence that ESPN's broadcasting decisions make, which can lead to schools/conferences being buried/ignored by everyone east of the Rockies, which further hurts schools that are competing for a spot in the playoffs. By playing by ESPN's rules, the SEC and B1G-10/14 end up getting more promotion and higher ranked. They thus end up with more teams in the playoffs, which leads to more money and more air time (two great tools for recruiting). By refusing to go along with ESPN's rules, Cal (and the Pac-12) saw less promotion and lower rankings and the consequences that come with that.

---

Not having our network available nationally on major carriers also surely played a role here.

---

Absolutely! There's no dispute there.

But ESPN dictating that Pac-12 games start at 10pm EDT also meant no one on the (l)east coast would watch Pac-12 games anyway, excepting those who had ties to Pac-12 schools.

---

It's not that simple. East coast fans are also not watching pac-12 games in the day time when it's up against SEC games.

---

There's always the option of scheduling a SEC game to start at 10pm EDT. Of course, the SEC would never allow that. So why should the Pac-12 allow our games to be pushed back that late by ESPN?

01Bear said:

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GMP said:

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01Bear said:

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sycasey said:

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01Bear said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Are we approaching the end of the road for the Pac-12 Networks as we know them?

https://awfulannouncing.com/league-networks/end-of-the-pac-12-network.html

I would bet (heavily) that all football games are pulled from the Pac-12 Networks in next media cycle.

Conference cannot afford to have its most valuable inventory on outlet with such limited reach https://t.co/u6nCrIAzjU

— Jon Wilner (@wilnerhotline) June 21, 2022

Seems like we may be in the endgame for this failed venture. I liked the idea of the conference having its own network, but it always seemed overstretched with (1) all the regional channels and (2) trying to go it alone rather than partnering with ESPN or Fox. Not being on DirecTV after all these years (where the biggest sports fans watch sports) was a massive failure.

---

It's the end game because ESPN has a heavy thumb on what conferences (and hence, which teams) are highly promoted and ranked. This has a not insignificant impact on post-season seeding. Sure, there's an "independent" committee that ranks and ultimately selects the teams for the championship playoffs, but it would be disingenuous to claim they're not influenced by the media polls, of which ESPN is a major player. This excludes the influence that ESPN's broadcasting decisions make, which can lead to schools/conferences being buried/ignored by everyone east of the Rockies, which further hurts schools that are competing for a spot in the playoffs. By playing by ESPN's rules, the SEC and B1G-10/14 end up getting more promotion and higher ranked. They thus end up with more teams in the playoffs, which leads to more money and more air time (two great tools for recruiting). By refusing to go along with ESPN's rules, Cal (and the Pac-12) saw less promotion and lower rankings and the consequences that come with that.

---

Not having our network available nationally on major carriers also surely played a role here.

---

Absolutely! There's no dispute there.

But ESPN dictating that Pac-12 games start at 10pm EDT also meant no one on the (l)east coast would watch Pac-12 games anyway, excepting those who had ties to Pac-12 schools.

---

It's not that simple. East coast fans are also not watching pac-12 games in the day time when it's up against SEC games.

---

There's always the option of scheduling a SEC game to start at 10pm EDT. Of course, the SEC would never allow that. So why should the Pac-12 allow our games to be pushed back that late by ESPN?

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Is this a serious question?

sycasey said:

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DiabloWags said:

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sycasey said:

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Seems like we may be in the endgame for this failed venture. I liked the idea of the conference having its own network, but it always seemed overstretched with (1) all the regional channels and (2) trying to go it alone rather than partnering with ESPN or Fox. Not being on DirecTV after all these years (where the biggest sports fans watch sports) was a massive failure.

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Yup, I had a friend who was a producer at Pac-12 networks who told me that they had a party all ready to go and were about to "pop" open the champagne for a new national TV deal . . . and then the word came out that the deal was terminated and so was the celebration party. Apparently, Larry Scott was trying to still negotiate a "better" deal in the 11th hour and overplayed his hand. The office literally went from a party that was already set up to celebrate, to a funeral, all in the same afternoon.

Epic Fail.

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"Overplayed his hand" seems to have been a consistent theme of the Larry Scott years.

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Except Larry didn't overplay his suite situation at the Pac-12 tournament in Vegas each year.

01Bear said:

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GMP said:

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01Bear said:

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sycasey said:

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01Bear said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Are we approaching the end of the road for the Pac-12 Networks as we know them?

https://awfulannouncing.com/league-networks/end-of-the-pac-12-network.html

I would bet (heavily) that all football games are pulled from the Pac-12 Networks in next media cycle.

Conference cannot afford to have its most valuable inventory on outlet with such limited reach https://t.co/u6nCrIAzjU

— Jon Wilner (@wilnerhotline) June 21, 2022

Seems like we may be in the endgame for this failed venture. I liked the idea of the conference having its own network, but it always seemed overstretched with (1) all the regional channels and (2) trying to go it alone rather than partnering with ESPN or Fox. Not being on DirecTV after all these years (where the biggest sports fans watch sports) was a massive failure.

---

It's the end game because ESPN has a heavy thumb on what conferences (and hence, which teams) are highly promoted and ranked. This has a not insignificant impact on post-season seeding. Sure, there's an "independent" committee that ranks and ultimately selects the teams for the championship playoffs, but it would be disingenuous to claim they're not influenced by the media polls, of which ESPN is a major player. This excludes the influence that ESPN's broadcasting decisions make, which can lead to schools/conferences being buried/ignored by everyone east of the Rockies, which further hurts schools that are competing for a spot in the playoffs. By playing by ESPN's rules, the SEC and B1G-10/14 end up getting more promotion and higher ranked. They thus end up with more teams in the playoffs, which leads to more money and more air time (two great tools for recruiting). By refusing to go along with ESPN's rules, Cal (and the Pac-12) saw less promotion and lower rankings and the consequences that come with that.

---

Not having our network available nationally on major carriers also surely played a role here.

---

Absolutely! There's no dispute there.

But ESPN dictating that Pac-12 games start at 10pm EDT also meant no one on the (l)east coast would watch Pac-12 games anyway, excepting those who had ties to Pac-12 schools.

---

It's not that simple. East coast fans are also not watching pac-12 games in the day time when it's up against SEC games.

---

There's always the option of scheduling a SEC game to start at 10pm EDT. Of course, the SEC would never allow that. So why should the Pac-12 allow our games to be pushed back that late by ESPN?

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The SEC plays lots of night games. This past season Texas A&M (first team I checked) had 6 games (half) at 7:00 pm, 7:30 pm or 8:00 pm. Of course, all SEC teams are located in the Central or Eastern time zone. So for them to have a 10:00 pm EST televised start, they have to actually start at 9:00 or 10:00 pm. Of course they wouldn't do that.

However, teams on the West Coast can have a 7:00 pm start (as the SEC does) but it will be on TV in the East Coast at 10 pm EST. That is why our only competition for that time slot is the MWC. It is actually an advantage if we play it right.

calumnus said:

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GMP said:

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01Bear said:

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sycasey said:

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01Bear said:

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sycasey said:

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The 9 or 10 pm EST slot can be really good because we have no real competition then, East Coast sports fans are done watching their games (including in person) and the bars are full and have to have something on TV.

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The Pac-12's ability to play games in that time window is valuable to TV and thus to Pac-12 TV rights. There is nothing else that ESPN could televise at 10 pm ET on Saturday night that would draw a million or more viewers.

So games at that starting time are here to stay. What the Pac-12 should get from its next TV deal is that games start in the late-night window only if they are on ESPN or if the home team wants to play that late (e.g., the Arizona teams in September). Neither FS1 nor P12N delivers a large enough audience to justify forcing teams to start at 7 or 7:30 pm.

BearSD said:

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calumnus said:

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GMP said:

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01Bear said:

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sycasey said:

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01Bear said:

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sycasey said:

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The 9 or 10 pm EST slot can be really good because we have no real competition then, East Coast sports fans are done watching their games (including in person) and the bars are full and have to have something on TV.

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The Pac-12's ability to play games in that time window is valuable to TV and thus to Pac-12 TV rights. There is nothing else that ESPN could televise at 10 pm ET on Saturday night that would draw a million or more viewers.

So games at that starting time are here to stay. What the Pac-12 should get from its next TV deal is that games start in the late-night window only if they are on ESPN or if the home team wants to play that late (e.g., the Arizona teams in September). Neither FS1 nor P12N delivers a large enough audience to justify forcing teams to start at 7 or 7:30 pm.

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Agreed. It has to be a national telecast to warrant it and if we give exclusive rights to the highest bidder, it will generate the most money and it will likely be the one who will have the largest audience.

BearSD said:

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calumnus said:

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The 9 or 10 pm EST slot can be really good because we have no real competition then, East Coast sports fans are done watching their games (including in person) and the bars are full and have to have something on TV.

---

The Pac-12's ability to play games in that time window is valuable to TV and thus to Pac-12 TV rights. There is nothing else that ESPN could televise at 10 pm ET on Saturday night that would draw a million or more viewers.

So games at that starting time are here to stay. What the Pac-12 should get from its next TV deal is that games start in the late-night window only if they are on ESPN or if the home team wants to play that late (e.g., the Arizona teams in September). Neither FS1 nor P12N delivers a large enough audience to justify forcing teams to start at 7 or 7:30 pm.

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Wilner notes in his article here that they also want to make sure fans have more notice of start times, so they can plan to attend games. The 6 and 12-day windows can really hurt.

For the #Pac12 media rights strategy, it's not just about the night gameshttps://t.co/zcaUZBt0Zt

— Jon Wilner (@wilnerhotline) June 17, 2022

can someone provide info on who might be a future streaming option?

GMP said:

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01Bear said:

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GMP said:

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01Bear said:

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sycasey said:

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01Bear said:

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sycasey said:

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Are we approaching the end of the road for the Pac-12 Networks as we know them?

https://awfulannouncing.com/league-networks/end-of-the-pac-12-network.html

I would bet (heavily) that all football games are pulled from the Pac-12 Networks in next media cycle.

Conference cannot afford to have its most valuable inventory on outlet with such limited reach https://t.co/u6nCrIAzjU

— Jon Wilner (@wilnerhotline) June 21, 2022

Seems like we may be in the endgame for this failed venture. I liked the idea of the conference having its own network, but it always seemed overstretched with (1) all the regional channels and (2) trying to go it alone rather than partnering with ESPN or Fox. Not being on DirecTV after all these years (where the biggest sports fans watch sports) was a massive failure.

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It's the end game because ESPN has a heavy thumb on what conferences (and hence, which teams) are highly promoted and ranked. This has a not insignificant impact on post-season seeding. Sure, there's an "independent" committee that ranks and ultimately selects the teams for the championship playoffs, but it would be disingenuous to claim they're not influenced by the media polls, of which ESPN is a major player. This excludes the influence that ESPN's broadcasting decisions make, which can lead to schools/conferences being buried/ignored by everyone east of the Rockies, which further hurts schools that are competing for a spot in the playoffs. By playing by ESPN's rules, the SEC and B1G-10/14 end up getting more promotion and higher ranked. They thus end up with more teams in the playoffs, which leads to more money and more air time (two great tools for recruiting). By refusing to go along with ESPN's rules, Cal (and the Pac-12) saw less promotion and lower rankings and the consequences that come with that.

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Not having our network available nationally on major carriers also surely played a role here.

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Absolutely! There's no dispute there.

But ESPN dictating that Pac-12 games start at 10pm EDT also meant no one on the (l)east coast would watch Pac-12 games anyway, excepting those who had ties to Pac-12 schools.

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It's not that simple. East coast fans are also not watching pac-12 games in the day time when it's up against SEC games.

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There's always the option of scheduling a SEC game to start at 10pm EDT. Of course, the SEC would never allow that. So why should the Pac-12 allow our games to be pushed back that late by ESPN?

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Is this a serious question?

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I guess I didn't quite make it obvious enough that the question was meant to be rhetorical. My fault. But the answers offered by others are worth considering, especially calumnus's (to which I'll reply next).

calumnus said:

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01Bear said:

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GMP said:

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01Bear said:

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sycasey said:

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01Bear said:

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sycasey said:

---

Are we approaching the end of the road for the Pac-12 Networks as we know them?

https://awfulannouncing.com/league-networks/end-of-the-pac-12-network.html

I would bet (heavily) that all football games are pulled from the Pac-12 Networks in next media cycle.

Conference cannot afford to have its most valuable inventory on outlet with such limited reach https://t.co/u6nCrIAzjU

— Jon Wilner (@wilnerhotline) June 21, 2022

Seems like we may be in the endgame for this failed venture. I liked the idea of the conference having its own network, but it always seemed overstretched with (1) all the regional channels and (2) trying to go it alone rather than partnering with ESPN or Fox. Not being on DirecTV after all these years (where the biggest sports fans watch sports) was a massive failure.

---

It's the end game because ESPN has a heavy thumb on what conferences (and hence, which teams) are highly promoted and ranked. This has a not insignificant impact on post-season seeding. Sure, there's an "independent" committee that ranks and ultimately selects the teams for the championship playoffs, but it would be disingenuous to claim they're not influenced by the media polls, of which ESPN is a major player. This excludes the influence that ESPN's broadcasting decisions make, which can lead to schools/conferences being buried/ignored by everyone east of the Rockies, which further hurts schools that are competing for a spot in the playoffs. By playing by ESPN's rules, the SEC and B1G-10/14 end up getting more promotion and higher ranked. They thus end up with more teams in the playoffs, which leads to more money and more air time (two great tools for recruiting). By refusing to go along with ESPN's rules, Cal (and the Pac-12) saw less promotion and lower rankings and the consequences that come with that.

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Not having our network available nationally on major carriers also surely played a role here.

---

Absolutely! There's no dispute there.

But ESPN dictating that Pac-12 games start at 10pm EDT also meant no one on the (l)east coast would watch Pac-12 games anyway, excepting those who had ties to Pac-12 schools.

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It's not that simple. East coast fans are also not watching pac-12 games in the day time when it's up against SEC games.

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There's always the option of scheduling a SEC game to start at 10pm EDT. Of course, the SEC would never allow that. So why should the Pac-12 allow our games to be pushed back that late by ESPN?

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The SEC plays lots of night games. This past season Texas A&M (first team I checked) had 6 games (half) at 7:00 pm, 7:30 pm or 8:00 pm. Of course, all SEC teams are located in the Central or Eastern time zone. So for them to have a 10:00 pm EST televised start, they have to actually start at 9:00 or 10:00 pm. Of course they wouldn't do that.

However, teams on the West Coast can have a 7:00 pm start (as the SEC does) but it will be on TV in the East Coast at 10 pm EST. That is why our only competition for that time slot is the MWC. It is actually an advantage if we play it right.

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That's a fair point (the fact that aTm played half of its games at 7-8pm). But how much of that was the result of the daytime temperatures/humidity? Arizona also plays many/most of its home games in the evening slot, but that's because daytime temperatures are brutal there for most of football season. The same doesn't hold true for most of the other Pac-12 schools, though.

While SoCal can get pretty toasty in the daytime, it's not (yet) unbearably hot between 12-7p during football season. I'm not sure how the weather is in Boulder or Salt Lake City during football season, but given both cities are pretty elevated, I'd assume the temperature would be a bit cooler. Still, even assuming that daytime temperatures at SLC and Boulder are also unbearably hot during football season, that's just four out of the 12 schools that need to have nighttime games. Why are the other schools forced to follow suit just to satisfy ESPN's desire to have TV programming for East Coast sports fans (or worse, bars) who likely won't even watch the Pac-12 games, anyway?

If ESPN's that desperate for programming, there are plenty of ACC, B1G-10/14, Big-12, and SEC games that can be scheduled during those hours. There's no reason to push Pac-12 games that late, especially since it kills ticket sales for Pac-12 programs. West Coast sports fans aren't second-class citizens; it's time we stopped accepting being treated as such by the East Coast establishment.

I am also researching streaming options for the pac 12 network outside of Comcast. The only options I have found are Fubo and Sling. I have no experience with either of them.

Go Bears

01Bear said:

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calumnus said:

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01Bear said:

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GMP said:

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01Bear said:

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sycasey said:

---

01Bear said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Are we approaching the end of the road for the Pac-12 Networks as we know them?

https://awfulannouncing.com/league-networks/end-of-the-pac-12-network.html

I would bet (heavily) that all football games are pulled from the Pac-12 Networks in next media cycle.

Conference cannot afford to have its most valuable inventory on outlet with such limited reach https://t.co/u6nCrIAzjU

— Jon Wilner (@wilnerhotline) June 21, 2022

Seems like we may be in the endgame for this failed venture. I liked the idea of the conference having its own network, but it always seemed overstretched with (1) all the regional channels and (2) trying to go it alone rather than partnering with ESPN or Fox. Not being on DirecTV after all these years (where the biggest sports fans watch sports) was a massive failure.

---

It's the end game because ESPN has a heavy thumb on what conferences (and hence, which teams) are highly promoted and ranked. This has a not insignificant impact on post-season seeding. Sure, there's an "independent" committee that ranks and ultimately selects the teams for the championship playoffs, but it would be disingenuous to claim they're not influenced by the media polls, of which ESPN is a major player. This excludes the influence that ESPN's broadcasting decisions make, which can lead to schools/conferences being buried/ignored by everyone east of the Rockies, which further hurts schools that are competing for a spot in the playoffs. By playing by ESPN's rules, the SEC and B1G-10/14 end up getting more promotion and higher ranked. They thus end up with more teams in the playoffs, which leads to more money and more air time (two great tools for recruiting). By refusing to go along with ESPN's rules, Cal (and the Pac-12) saw less promotion and lower rankings and the consequences that come with that.

---

Not having our network available nationally on major carriers also surely played a role here.

---

Absolutely! There's no dispute there.

But ESPN dictating that Pac-12 games start at 10pm EDT also meant no one on the (l)east coast would watch Pac-12 games anyway, excepting those who had ties to Pac-12 schools.

---

It's not that simple. East coast fans are also not watching pac-12 games in the day time when it's up against SEC games.

---

There's always the option of scheduling a SEC game to start at 10pm EDT. Of course, the SEC would never allow that. So why should the Pac-12 allow our games to be pushed back that late by ESPN?

---

The SEC plays lots of night games. This past season Texas A&M (first team I checked) had 6 games (half) at 7:00 pm, 7:30 pm or 8:00 pm. Of course, all SEC teams are located in the Central or Eastern time zone. So for them to have a 10:00 pm EST televised start, they have to actually start at 9:00 or 10:00 pm. Of course they wouldn't do that.

However, teams on the West Coast can have a 7:00 pm start (as the SEC does) but it will be on TV in the East Coast at 10 pm EST. That is why our only competition for that time slot is the MWC. It is actually an advantage if we play it right.

---

That's a fair point (the fact that aTm played half of its games at 7-8pm). But how much of that was the result of the daytime temperatures/humidity? Arizona also plays many/most of its home games in the evening slot, but that's because daytime temperatures are brutal there for most of football season. The same doesn't hold true for most of the other Pac-12 schools, though.

While SoCal can get pretty toasty in the daytime, it's not (yet) unbearably hot between 12-7p during football season. I'm not sure how the weather is in Boulder or Salt Lake City during football season, but given both cities are pretty elevated, I'd assume the temperature would be a bit cooler. Still, even assuming that daytime temperatures at SLC and Boulder are also unbearably hot during football season, that's just four out of the 12 schools that need to have nighttime games. Why are the other schools forced to follow suit just to satisfy ESPN's desire to have TV programming for East Coast sports fans (or worse, bars) who likely won't even watch the Pac-12 games, anyway?

If ESPN's that desperate for programming, there are plenty of ACC, B1G-10/14, Big-12, and SEC games that can be scheduled during those hours. There's no reason to push Pac-12 games that late, especially since it kills ticket sales for Pac-12 programs. West Coast sports fans aren't second-class citizens; it's time we stopped accepting being treated as such by the East Coast establishment.

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I think the PAC-12 should offer up 1 Saturday 7:00 pm start each week, maybe 1 Friday 7:00 pm too. If evenly spread, each team would host only 1 (or 2 if Friday is included) night games each season.

Bay Area and Pacific Northwest evening weather is generally best in September and October, better than summer fog, usually with rain starting around Halloween. A night game at Cal in late September early October is not a problem. More so for the other northern schools.

So the night games in November just need to be played at the four schools in LA or Arizona. The TV audience probably wants that anyway. In fact, if you lean that way more (since they play at night in Arizona anyway), it may be that Cal and other northern schools do not need to host any night games at all most years. And if the rest of the PAC-12 is playing during the day, that is the rest of the PAC-12 as your potential viewing audience. .