Cal88 said:

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sluggo said:

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Before the tournament based on human intelligence I picked Brazil over France in the finals. But I would not count out England. They have the deepest team, and players will get hurt and pick up cards, so that matters.

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Brazil has not beaten France in the WC in my lifetime, and the 3 times they've lost, 86, 98 and 06, they were tournament favorites, with teams that were a lot scarier than this one. As a France supporter, the teams I fear most are Portugal, Spain and Croatia. England is not in that group, they are overrated.

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I have not seen Portugal play. I have seen all the other top teams. Spain is the most overrated team at the tournament. Croatia is over the hill. I am an England believer, and I think you will be surprised.

None of those Brazilian or French players will be playing in the finals, so I am not sure why that matters.

This mornings games are phenomenal. Germany v CR - where both teams had to go for it - has been superb.

Japan slays two European giants to win their group!

Spain backs in because Costa Rica couldn't hold a lead against Germany. Meanwhile, the Germans are bounced in the group stage for a second straight World Cup . . . national embarrassment.

Shocking, and marvelous!

We can now officially say that the USA has a better soccer team than Germany.

sycasey said:

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We can now officially say that the USA has a better soccer team than Germany.

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While you are being sarcastic, the gap is not that big. And if the game was only of players under 25 my money would be on the USA.

sluggo said:

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sycasey said:

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We can now officially say that the USA has a better soccer team than Germany.

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While you are being sarcastic, the gap is not that big. And if the game was only of players under 25 my money would be on the USA.

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Yeah, the USA's talent level is finally approaching that of the top national teams. The next cycle should be exciting.

Just curious, if the yellow cards were equal, what would be the next tie breaker? Could it ever get to a coin flip?

In another instance of freaky happenings, the positions and games for the last two groups are exactly the same, they are virtual mirror images of each other in point standings. goal differentials (though not the same in goals scored).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_FIFA_World_Cup#Group_G
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_FIFA_World_Cup#Group_H

Both Brazil and Portugal have plenty of room to back into first place the same way France did, and are starting with a 3 goal cushion vis a vis the only team that can still mathematically win their group, Switzerland and Ghana, respectively, which they don`t play tomorrow. Another exciting day ahead...

Big C said:

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Just curious, if the yellow cards were equal, what would be the next tie breaker? Could it ever get to a coin flip?

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Yes, it would be a coin flip, or `lots drawn`. I don`t think it`s ever happened. I don`t think the discipline tiebreaker was ever enforced either, though I could be wrong. At one point, the number of corner kicks conceded was also in the tiebreaker mix.

sycasey said:

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sluggo said:

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sycasey said:

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We can now officially say that the USA has a better soccer team than Germany.

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While you are being sarcastic, the gap is not that big. And if the game was only of players under 25 my money would be on the USA.

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Yeah, the USA's talent level is finally approaching that of the top national teams. The next cycle should be exciting.

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Yes and no. The young talent in Brazil, France and Spain is way beyond ours. But we are definitely getting closer.

The next cycle will be incredible with virtually the same team but with four years of additional experience and hopefully a couple of breakthroughs at center back. And maybe by then the coach will put his best players on the field rather than playing a subpar striker.

sluggo said:

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sycasey said:

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sluggo said:

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sycasey said:

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We can now officially say that the USA has a better soccer team than Germany.

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While you are being sarcastic, the gap is not that big. And if the game was only of players under 25 my money would be on the USA.

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Yeah, the USA's talent level is finally approaching that of the top national teams. The next cycle should be exciting.

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Yes and no. The young talent in Brazil, France and Spain is way beyond ours. But we are definitely getting closer.

The next cycle will be incredible with virtually the same team but with four years of additional experience and hopefully a couple of breakthroughs at center back. And maybe by then the coach will put his best players on the field rather than playing a subpar striker.

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Yeah, "approaching" the top national teams, if maybe not quite there yet. But close enough that you can realistically envision a deep run in the next tournament (and maybe even this one, with a bit of luck).

VAR needs to step in more often. The out-of-bounds ball the CR goalkeeper retrieved and returned inbounds was a serious miss by the line judge. Basically, the German player pressed the CR defender into making a bad back pass and Germany should have received the corner kick they caused. Instead, the line judge missed the cal and VAR sat silent. Why have it if it won't reverse egregiously wrong or missed calls?

Looks like I missed some drama today. TV was going at work but no idea of all the intrigue. Marocco looks good. Lots of Dutch born guys. Riots in some cities in Holland by their supporters because they won. That is nuts.

I'm absolutely loving the drama of these games, and the last round of the group stage has proven to be every bit as exciting and dramatic as I'm guessing organizers hoped for in their dreams leading up to the tournament.

I really hope the US plays a complete game Saturday, and that it fields the starting 11 it wants to field, even if a couple of players aren't quite at 100%. I think if the US can stay tied/even into the second half, the pressure will start to build on the Netherlands, who I'm sure fully expect to win.

Nice work Son, high five to KAB!

Cal88 said:

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Nice work Son, high five to KAB!

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That was awesome.

Ghana dragging Uruguay to hell in a loss is what sports is all about

— BUM CHILLUPS AKA SPENCER HALL (@edsbs) December 2, 2022

Poetic.

watched the 2nd half of the Korea game, then the last few minutes of the Uruguay game, why was Suarez benched, injury, or their manager being an idiot?

Three teams from the Asian region unexpectedly advancing: Australia, Japan, and South Korea. None of them were particularly highly ranked going in, which makes you wonder if the whole region was underrated.

That also might make the USA's win over Iran retroactively more impressive, since Iran was top-rated out of the Asian teams going in.

sycasey said:

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Three teams from the Asian region unexpectedly advancing: Australia, Japan, and South Korea. None of them were particularly highly ranked going in, which makes you wonder if the whole region was underrated.

That also might make the USA's win over Iran retroactively more impressive, since Iran was top-rated out of the Asian teams going in.

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Iran had a lot of distractions going into this tournament, and it showed esp in their first game.

Asian teams are playing in their home continent. Although Qatar is still very far from Korea, Oz or Japan, these teams are used to playing in the Gulf in Asian cups and WC quals, plus they have huge fan support in Doha. Australia ended up playing many of its home games in Doha because of their draconian covid lockdown, it`s been their home away from home. I bet the Japanese team stays at the local Japanese hotel catering to Japanese businessmen, and the chefs and staff know the players on a first name basis. That`s also why some Arab teams like Morocco, KSA and Tunisia overperformed.

Cal88 said:

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sycasey said:

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Three teams from the Asian region unexpectedly advancing: Australia, Japan, and South Korea. None of them were particularly highly ranked going in, which makes you wonder if the whole region was underrated.

That also might make the USA's win over Iran retroactively more impressive, since Iran was top-rated out of the Asian teams going in.

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Iran had a lot of distractions going into this tournament, and it showed esp in their first game.

Asian teams are playing in their home continent. Although Qatar is still very far from Korea, Oz or Japan, these teams are used to playing in the Gulf in Asian cups and WC quals, plus they have huge fan support in Doha. Australia ended up playing many of its home games in Doha because of their draconian covid lockdown, it`s been their home away from home. I bet the Japanese team stays at the local Japanese hotel catering to Japanese businessmen, and the chefs and staff know the players on a first name basis. That`s also why some Arab teams like Morocco, KSA and Tunisia overperformed.

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Good point, shouldn't overlook some of the potential home field advantages. European teams have also tended to wilt in hotter environments.

Watching the Swiss game, high drama and high quality game, two good European sides going all out. Serbia qualifies with a win combined with a Brazil win or tie in the other game.

Cal88 said:

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watched the 2nd half of the Korea game, then the last few minutes of the Uruguay game, why was Suarez benched, injury, or their manager being an idiot?

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Rabies?

TandemBear said:

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Cal88 said:

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watched the 2nd half of the Korea game, then the last few minutes of the Uruguay game, why was Suarez benched, injury, or their manager being an idiot?

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Rabies?

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Lulz!

Looks like the Swiss are in, vs Portugal, should be a very good game, and Korea gets Brazil.

@Tandem, apologies in advance for the length and I write the following only to clarify points on the LoTG.

VAR can only step in during certain plays. From latest Laws of the Game (LoTG):

A video assistant referee (VAR) is a match official, with independent access to match footage, who may assist the referee only in the event of a 'clear and obvious error' or 'serious missed incident' in relation to:
a. Goal/no goal
b. Penalty/no penalty
c. Direct red card (not second yellow card/caution)
d. Mistaken identity (when the referee cautions or
sends off the wrong player of the offending team)

Since a Goal/No goal decision was not made immediately after the situation you mention, VAR could not step in.

Note, While VAR can recommend a review, it is always the Referee who decides whether s/he wants to review.

Also, I do not remember the specific play you are referencing, but many in/out of play decisions are not always cut and dried. Many times to the casual observer it appears "obvious" that a ball is out of play when it actually remained IN play.

For a great example see the run up to the Japan goal vs. Spain. To the whole world it appeared that the ball crossed the end line. VAR correctly confirmed the ball was DEFINITELY IN play.

Looks like Brazil is the 3rd straight 2-win team to back into first place after a loss on their 3rd game, same as France and Portugal. Getting the top team in your group last is a huge advantage, tough it wasn't enough to help Cameroon or Tunisia, but it sure helped S. Korea.

The bracket is set!

The final bracket for the Round of 16 at the World Cup. #FIFAWorldCup pic.twitter.com/zBo7vBPtp8

— Pop Base (@PopBase) December 2, 2022

It`s a good spot for the USMNT, perhaps the best chance to get through to the semis out of that subbracket with Holland and Argentina vs the 3 other pairs of headliners (Brazil/Croatia, Spain/Portugal or France/England). Still a tremendous challenge, but nothing to lose at this point...

Cal88 said:

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It`s a good spot for the USMNT, perhaps the best chance to get through to the semis out of that subbracket with Holland and Argentina vs the 3 other pairs of headliners (Brazil/Croatia, Spain/Portugal or France/England). Still a tremendous challenge, but nothing to lose at this point...

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Agreed, it is a dream bracket. Holland is good, probably a favorite over the US, but beatable. And Argentina is old and slow and would be easier than Holland. In 2016 the US played Argentina in the Copa America here and were made to look silly in a 4-0 loss. But I think it would be different this time.

Argentina with Kun Aguero would have been a very solid contender.

Cal88 said:

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It`s a good spot for the USMNT, perhaps the best chance to get through to the semis out of that subbracket with Holland and Argentina vs the 3 other pairs of headliners (Brazil/Croatia, Spain/Portugal or France/England). Still a tremendous challenge, but nothing to lose at this point...

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I thought the Spain/Portugal bracket would be easier. Argentina has looked good since their first game, with some young players showing out.

GMP said:

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Cal88 said:

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It`s a good spot for the USMNT, perhaps the best chance to get through to the semis out of that subbracket with Holland and Argentina vs the 3 other pairs of headliners (Brazil/Croatia, Spain/Portugal or France/England). Still a tremendous challenge, but nothing to lose at this point...

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I thought the Spain/Portugal bracket would be easier. Argentina has looked good since their first game, with some young players showing out.

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Portuguese are a scrappy side with a winner's mindset, good technical skills and organization, same with Croatia. That`s the combination of qualities that is going to win this tournament. As well their players always play better for their countries than their clubs, and the teams are cohesive and highly motivated.

Both Brazil and Argentina are a bit on the fragile side, there is still some of the latent fragility in Brazil that we saw in the 2014 home disastrous implosion. Aguero would have helped Argentina in that aspect enormously. Spain has all the technical quality and then some, but lacks that mental punch as well as the finishing touch.

France has the best group of forwards with Dembele in top form (team's MVP so far) on top of Mbappe as twin terrors capable of breaking down any defense, wily Griezmann and Giroud as a poacher, that`s one hell of a strikeforce. Missing big time is Kante in the middle, the young mid replacements are good but untested, and Hernandez' injury in the back is unfortunate. Still the favorite on paper in my very biased opinion, likely to handle England with ease and go into the semifinal with momentum.

Here are the latest odds to win the cup from this site https://www.oddschecker.com/us/soccer/world-cup


Brazil
+225


Argentina
+500


France
+550


Spain
+650


England
+950


Portugal
+1300


Netherlands
+2200


Croatia
+4000

Croatia is very underrated, not saying they`re going to win, but that they`re better than these odds.

We see things so differently.

Brazil is still my team. They don't have a natural Neymar replacement, and it is not clear where he stands, but they are loaded up front and solid in the back.

France is strong everywhere, but I don't think they are well coached and they have lapses. It would be great to see them against Brazil, the game would be so high level.

This English squad is different and better. But getting by France will not be easy.

My dark horse team going in was Japan. I think they beat a past its prime Croatia.

Spain has great young players, but Sergio Busquets undermines everything. They have a good path to the semis where they will get blown out, if they do not lose earlier.

I think Australia is 50-50 against an old and slow Argentina team.

What is your take on US vs Netherlands?

tequila4kapp said:

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What is your take on US vs Netherlands?

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Should be a good game. With the midfields about even, both teams should be able to attack. The Netherlands have a better back line. Virgil van Dijk is the best central defender I have ever seen, and he is a nightmare on corners. The US creates a lot of half chances but scores very few goals, so far at the World Cup and in qualifying. Would like to see Reyna over Sargent or whoever is the striker, a moment of brilliance is needed, and he has the skills.

I think the Netherlands win 1-0 on a set piece or a penalty. But a US victory would not surprise me.