Is Anyone Else Going to The World Cup?

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Cal88
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In reply to KoreAmBear • 7:09p, 11/29/22
KoreAmBear said:
sycasey said:
Netherlands has looked pretty good, but they've also had the easiest competition thus far, so who's to say if that means anything?

If Pulisic can't go then that will really hurt the Americans' chances, obviously.
Bring on Gio Reyna.

If he`s old enough to start for Dortmund, he`s old enough for the USMNT...

Missed the game because of work, must have been very exciting to watch live. This is the first WC since 1974 where I haven`t seen all the games in group play, or just about. It`s a shame they couldn`t hold it closer to the holiday season. At this point you can`t even tape the games because there is a big fresh batch starting the following day...

Holland has a very good central defense with de Ligt and van Dijk, it`s definitely a step up from Iran there. This being said, this is not a killer bracket, so who knows how it will play, group winner England has a harder path to the QFs, with Senegal then probably France, vs Holland then Poland/Denmark/Argentina for the 2nd place US.
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tequila4kapp
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In reply to Cal88 • 7:32p, 11/29/22
It was a tale of two halves. In the 1st 45m Iran parked the bus, US controlled possession and had several scoring chances (1 counted, 1 reversed for off sides, a couple that showed the US really needs a proper striker). The 2nd 45 was the reverse but Iran couldn't score the tying goal.
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sycasey
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In reply to tequila4kapp • 7:51p, 11/29/22
tequila4kapp said:
It was a tale of two halves. In the 1st 45m Iran parked the bus, US controlled possession and had several scoring chances (1 counted, 1 reversed for off sides, a couple that showed the US really needs a proper striker). The 2nd 45 was the reverse but Iran couldn't score the tying goal.

As with Wales, I thought Berhalter went defensive way too early in the second half. The USA's primary advantage was their ability to easily control possession in midfield (as it was vs Wales and England). Backing off and ceding that territory takes away from what the Americans do best, and leaves you open to a random penalty like Wales got.

Though in this game the Pulisic injury makes it a more defensible tactic.
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tequila4kapp
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In reply to sycasey • 8:15p, 11/29/22
sycasey said:
tequila4kapp said:
It was a tale of two halves. In the 1st 45m Iran parked the bus, US controlled possession and had several scoring chances (1 counted, 1 reversed for off sides, a couple that showed the US really needs a proper striker). The 2nd 45 was the reverse but Iran couldn't score the tying goal.

As with Wales, I thought Berhalter went defensive way too early in the second half. The USA's primary advantage was their ability to easily control possession in midfield (as it was vs Wales and England). Backing off and ceding that territory takes away from what the Americans do best, and leaves you open to a random penalty like Wales got.

Though in this game the Pulisic injury makes it a more defensible tactic.
1000% agree. He goes into prevent defense a) when he has the better athletes and should use them to push the action, and b) way way too early. It's kinda painful to watch.
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bearister
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6:52a, 11/30/22
"It wasn't a dominant group stage performance by any means, but the USMNT just went unbeaten against three top-20 teams and posted back-to-back World Cup shutouts for the first time since 1930." Axios
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
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sycasey
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In reply to bearister • 8:14a, 11/30/22
bearister said:
"It wasn't a dominant group stage performance by any means, but the USMNT just went unbeaten against three top-20 teams and posted back-to-back World Cup shutouts for the first time since 1930." Axios
Yes, though IMO Wales was overrated as a Top-20 side (their stars are past their primes at this point, and it showed).
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OdontoBear66
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In reply to sycasey • 8:48a, 11/30/22
sycasey said:
tequila4kapp said:
It was a tale of two halves. In the 1st 45m Iran parked the bus, US controlled possession and had several scoring chances (1 counted, 1 reversed for off sides, a couple that showed the US really needs a proper striker). The 2nd 45 was the reverse but Iran couldn't score the tying goal.

As with Wales, I thought Berhalter went defensive way too early in the second half. The USA's primary advantage was their ability to easily control possession in midfield (as it was vs Wales and England). Backing off and ceding that territory takes away from what the Americans do best, and leaves you open to a random penalty like Wales got.

Though in this game the Pulisic injury makes it a more defensible tactic.
Could not agree more. We controlled the midfield, the game and were attacking at will in the first half. The question becomes is a good offensive attack the best defense or is it better to bunker in? I like the former, and in the second half we were hanging on from their attack. We did not need to attack and score (although it would have been nice, ala Weah's offside goal) but just continue the attack and press.
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sycasey
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In reply to OdontoBear66 • 9:56a, 11/30/22
OdontoBear66 said:
sycasey said:
tequila4kapp said:
It was a tale of two halves. In the 1st 45m Iran parked the bus, US controlled possession and had several scoring chances (1 counted, 1 reversed for off sides, a couple that showed the US really needs a proper striker). The 2nd 45 was the reverse but Iran couldn't score the tying goal.

As with Wales, I thought Berhalter went defensive way too early in the second half. The USA's primary advantage was their ability to easily control possession in midfield (as it was vs Wales and England). Backing off and ceding that territory takes away from what the Americans do best, and leaves you open to a random penalty like Wales got.

Though in this game the Pulisic injury makes it a more defensible tactic.
Could not agree more. We controlled the midfield, the game and were attacking at will in the first half. The question becomes is a good offensive attack the best defense or is it better to bunker in? I like the former, and in the second half we were hanging on from their attack. We did not need to attack and score (although it would have been nice, ala Weah's offside goal) but just continue the attack and press.
I feel like for THIS USMNT the best defense is a good offense. You protect the lead by preventing the opposition from ever having the ball. Previous US teams weren't like that; we were average in midfield but had a dominant goalkeeper in Tim Howard and some good up-front scorers like Dempsey and Donovan, so you could pack it in pretty comfortably after those guys got you a lead. This team is dominant in midfield and okay but not great in the back. Use the midfield guys to keep pressure off the back line!
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zorbarick
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10:08a, 11/30/22
While I agree that the difference in play between the first half and the second half was striking, I do not think all (or even most) of that is attributable to US tactics changing. Rather, Iran spent the entire first half trying to defend and hold a 0-0 score to get them through. Once the US scored late in the first half, it was Iran that changed entirely what it was attempting to do, because sitting back and defending a tie was no longer an option. Sure, the US became more defensive-minded, especially with it's late substitutions, but what we saw on the field, I think, had a lot more to do with Iran's changing mindset than that of the US.

As for Pulisic, while anyone can criticize players for going down too easily at times, and downright flopping at times, I don't see how anyone who actually watched that game could criticize Pulisic's play on what became the game-winning goal. It was a tremendous effort, he gave up his body for the team, was entirely unable to even celebrate one of the key goals of his entire career, could barely walk the last few minutes of the half, and then spent the second half at the hospital, and was unable to celebrate with the team at the end of the game. There was absolutely no "flop" involved in the play at all, and to those who think there was, I can only conclude that they didn't actually watch what happened.
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tequila4kapp
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In reply to zorbarick • 10:13a, 11/30/22
The defensive substitutions weren't especially late. I believe they came at the 60m mark. WAY too early, IMO.
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sycasey
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In reply to zorbarick • 10:14a, 11/30/22
zorbarick said:
While I agree that the difference in play between the first half and the second half was striking, I do not think all (or even most) of that is attributable to US tactics changing. Rather, Iran spent the entire first half trying to defend and hold a 0-0 score to get them through. Once the US scored late in the first half, it was Iran that changed entirely what it was attempting to do, because sitting back and defending a tie was no longer an option. Sure, the US became more defensive-minded, especially with it's late substitutions, but what we saw on the field, I think, had a lot more to do with Iran's changing mindset than that of the US.
It's true that Iran was forced to attack more, but theoretically that should mean that if the US could win possession more often in midfield it would open up opportunities to tack on to the lead. They basically gave up on that idea in the second half.

Though granted, with Pulisic out I think you can defend the decision in this instance.
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GMP
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In reply to tequila4kapp • 10:29a, 11/30/22
tequila4kapp said:
The defensive substitutions weren't especially late. I believe they came at the 60m mark. WAY too early, IMO.

Moore come in at 82.
Zimmerman came in at 82.
Wright came in at 77.
Acosta came in at 65.

I realize Acosta is considered more of a defensive midfielder than McKennie, but McKennie was also tired and is not 100% from a quad injury, so it's hard to fault that sub at that time. The rest were late and certainly not close to the 60 minute mark.
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Cal88
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12:27p, 11/30/22
Watching the 2nd half of Poland-Argentina, interesting situation there: if Argentina scores one more goal, and Mex-KSA stays 2-0, Poland and Mexico are going to be even on all tie breakers (goals scored, head to head), and it would go down to fair play points (least carded team)! I don`t think this has ever happened before.
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12:31p, 11/30/22
...and there you have it, ARG scored again, setting up the perfect tie, got to check on who is ahead with the yellows, but you`ve got to believe Mexico is less disciplined...

Edit: indeed, Poland has 3 fewer amarillas than Mexico
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GMP
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In reply to Cal88 • 12:34p, 11/30/22
Cal88 said:
...and there you have it, ARG scored again, setting up the perfect tie, got to check on who is ahead with the yellows, but you`ve got to believe Mexico is less disciplined...
Mexico 6 YC. Poland 4 YC.
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12:40p, 11/30/22
Poles picked up a yellow, could be signaling to Argentina that they`re happy with the 2-0.
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sycasey
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1:21p, 11/30/22
The Saudis scored one late so it just came down to goal differential after all. But yeah, it was mighty amusing to think Mexico would be knocked out because they got too many yellow cards.
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Cal88
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1:25p, 11/30/22
Ah too bad, would have loved to see France-Mexico.

The US now has to beat Holland then likely Argentina to get to the QF. Rough, but it avoids the top two teams in that bracket half, Spain and Brazil.
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Big C
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In reply to Cal88 • 1:40p, 11/30/22
Cal88 said:
Poles picked up a yellow, could be signaling to Argentina that they`re happy with the 2-0.

What happened to France this morning? Insufficient motivation to win this one?
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sycasey
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1:46p, 11/30/22
First time Mexico has failed to advance out of their World Cup group since 1978 (though there were also some tournaments they didn't qualify for in there).
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Cal88
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In reply to Big C • 2:30p, 11/30/22
Big C said:
Cal88 said:
Poles picked up a yellow, could be signaling to Argentina that they`re happy with the 2-0.

What happened to France this morning? Insufficient motivation to win this one?

France basically rested nearly all its starters and backed into 1st place with a team of substitutes, they were already more or less guaranteed 1st place in the group barring a very unlikely lopsided loss to Ttunisia combined with a big win by Oz. I don`t think it was a good approach, the next game isn`t till Sunday and it would have been good to have at the very least a core of starters to get the team into a rhythm. (There might have been just a bit of latent sympathy for Tunisia, a francophone team, a lot closer to France than Australia...)

Deschamps went as far as starting a substitute goalie, his old (as in 37yo) pal from Marseille Mandanda, who looked shaky, and who isn`t going to be playing more games barring a freak injury to starter Lloris. If you`re going to have a slate of new defenders, have them get used to playing with the starter goalie. The other thing is that Mandanda is nowhere near as good as being the 2nd best French goalie, he should have gotten to the well-placed but slow Tunisian ball that rolled inside the post.

France plays Poland next, a team it should beat, but lookout if it goes to shootouts, Polish keeper Szczesny has been on fire, tournament MVP so far IMHO...
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tequila4kapp
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In reply to Cal88 • 3:32p, 11/30/22
His save on the PK today was amazing
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Big C
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In reply to Cal88 • 4:20p, 11/30/22
Cal88 said:
Big C said:
Cal88 said:
Poles picked up a yellow, could be signaling to Argentina that they`re happy with the 2-0.

What happened to France this morning? Insufficient motivation to win this one?

France basically rested nearly all its starters and backed into 1st place with a team of substitutes, they were already more or less guaranteed 1st place in the group barring a very unlikely lopsided loss to Ttunisia combined with a big win by Oz. I don`t think it was a good approach, the next game isn`t till Sunday and it would have been good to have at the very least a core of starters to get the team into a rhythm. (There might have been just a bit of latent sympathy for Tunisia, a francophone team, a lot closer to France than Australia...)

Deschamps went as far as starting a substitute goalie, his old (as in 37yo) pal from Marseille Mandanda, who looked shaky, and who isn`t going to be playing more games barring a freak injury to starter Lloris. If you`re going to have a slate of new defenders, have them get used to playing with the starter goalie. The other thing is that Mandanda is nowhere near as good as being the 2nd best French goalie, he should have gotten to the well-placed but slow Tunisian ball that rolled inside the post.

France plays Poland next, a team it should beat, but lookout if it goes to shootouts, Polish keeper Szczesny has been on fire, tournament MVP so far IMHO...

Big parties in Tunisia tonight, eh? Algerians and Moroccans also happy?
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Cal88
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In reply to Big C • 5:20p, 11/30/22
Big C said:
Cal88 said:
Big C said:
Cal88 said:
Poles picked up a yellow, could be signaling to Argentina that they`re happy with the 2-0.

What happened to France this morning? Insufficient motivation to win this one?

France basically rested nearly all its starters and backed into 1st place with a team of substitutes, they were already more or less guaranteed 1st place in the group barring a very unlikely lopsided loss to Ttunisia combined with a big win by Oz. I don`t think it was a good approach, the next game isn`t till Sunday and it would have been good to have at the very least a core of starters to get the team into a rhythm. (There might have been just a bit of latent sympathy for Tunisia, a francophone team, a lot closer to France than Australia...)

Deschamps went as far as starting a substitute goalie, his old (as in 37yo) pal from Marseille Mandanda, who looked shaky, and who isn`t going to be playing more games barring a freak injury to starter Lloris. If you`re going to have a slate of new defenders, have them get used to playing with the starter goalie. The other thing is that Mandanda is nowhere near as good as being the 2nd best French goalie, he should have gotten to the well-placed but slow Tunisian ball that rolled inside the post.

France plays Poland next, a team it should beat, but lookout if it goes to shootouts, Polish keeper Szczesny has been on fire, tournament MVP so far IMHO...

Big parties in Tunisia tonight, eh? Algerians and Moroccans also happy?

The win today was a small consolation for Tunisia being eliminated from the World Cup, I don`t think they`re that happy with that, at least for their non-casual fans. Tunisia had a big advantage of playing France in the 3rd game, and squandered that by losing to Australia, a team roughly their equal. It would have been very unlikely for them to beat or even tie a regular France team with its starters, France having totally crushed the Oz team that beat Tunisia.

Morocco came up with the big upset of a star-laden but underperforming Belgium team. They should qualify, along with Croatia, at the expense of Belgium, which is a major achievement for that country, as going in that was one of the toughest groups. Unfortunately some of their fans in Belgium and Holland weren`t very gracious in their celebrations. In any case should they advance, Morocco will get bounced in their next game by Brazil. Brazil would then play Spain in the QFs, the winner of this clash will be my odds-on favorite to make the final.

Algeria had arguably the strongest team of all of Africa on paper, but they choked on their qualification losing at home at the very last minute of extra time to Cameroon. Cameroon also might luck out and advance if they can steal a win from an already-qualified and almost assured of 1st place Brazil in their third game Friday.
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GMP
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In reply to Cal88 • 7:15p, 11/30/22
Cal88 said:
Ah too bad, would have loved to see France-Mexico.

The US now has to beat Holland then likely Argentina to get to the QF. Rough, but it avoids the top two teams in that bracket half, Spain and Brazil.


US only needs to beat Holland to get to the QF. Beating Holland and Argentina would mean semifinals.
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tequila4kapp
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In reply to GMP • 7:54p, 11/30/22
GMP said:
Cal88 said:
Ah too bad, would have loved to see France-Mexico.

The US now has to beat Holland then likely Argentina to get to the QF. Rough, but it avoids the top two teams in that bracket half, Spain and Brazil.


US only needs to beat Holland to get to the QF. Beating Holland and Argentina would mean semifinals.
To my eye Argentina is in another class. They appeared to have comparable athleticism and mid-field play but better back line and strikers (in addition to Messi). That would be a big upset.
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Cal88
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7:58p, 11/30/22
Right, should have said 'in the QFs'.





Denmark didn`t make it, Australia crashed that party, but is even less likely to get by Argentina.

I think Spain beats Brazil, and France-Portugal would be a tossup.
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Goobear
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In reply to sycasey • 8:14p, 11/30/22
sycasey said:
OdontoBear66 said:
sycasey said:
tequila4kapp said:
It was a tale of two halves. In the 1st 45m Iran parked the bus, US controlled possession and had several scoring chances (1 counted, 1 reversed for off sides, a couple that showed the US really needs a proper striker). The 2nd 45 was the reverse but Iran couldn't score the tying goal.

As with Wales, I thought Berhalter went defensive way too early in the second half. The USA's primary advantage was their ability to easily control possession in midfield (as it was vs Wales and England). Backing off and ceding that territory takes away from what the Americans do best, and leaves you open to a random penalty like Wales got.

Though in this game the Pulisic injury makes it a more defensible tactic.
Could not agree more. We controlled the midfield, the game and were attacking at will in the first half. The question becomes is a good offensive attack the best defense or is it better to bunker in? I like the former, and in the second half we were hanging on from their attack. We did not need to attack and score (although it would have been nice, ala Weah's offside goal) but just continue the attack and press.
I feel like for THIS USMNT the best defense is a good offense. You protect the lead by preventing the opposition from ever having the ball. Previous US teams weren't like that; we were average in midfield but had a dominant goalkeeper in Tim Howard and some good up-front scorers like Dempsey and Donovan, so you could pack it in pretty comfortably after those guys got you a lead. This team is dominant in midfield and okay but not great in the back. Use the midfield guys to keep pressure off the back line!
I agree the US should not be parking the bus. On the other hand they were running out of gas. You could see at close plays. Iran won most of those as we were a step slow. I would advocate of holding a bit more back in the first half so there is more energy in the second half. The team is fast and athletic but needs to be a bit more controlled in the first half. I wouldn't be surprised if they beat Holland. I will not be wearing my orange jersey Saturday.
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sluggo
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In reply to Cal88 • 9:15p, 11/30/22
Before the tournament based on human intelligence I picked Brazil over France in the finals. But I would not count out England. They have the deepest team, and players will get hurt and pick up cards, so that matters.
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sycasey
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In reply to Goobear • 9:15p, 11/30/22
Goobear said:
sycasey said:
OdontoBear66 said:
sycasey said:
tequila4kapp said:
It was a tale of two halves. In the 1st 45m Iran parked the bus, US controlled possession and had several scoring chances (1 counted, 1 reversed for off sides, a couple that showed the US really needs a proper striker). The 2nd 45 was the reverse but Iran couldn't score the tying goal.

As with Wales, I thought Berhalter went defensive way too early in the second half. The USA's primary advantage was their ability to easily control possession in midfield (as it was vs Wales and England). Backing off and ceding that territory takes away from what the Americans do best, and leaves you open to a random penalty like Wales got.

Though in this game the Pulisic injury makes it a more defensible tactic.
Could not agree more. We controlled the midfield, the game and were attacking at will in the first half. The question becomes is a good offensive attack the best defense or is it better to bunker in? I like the former, and in the second half we were hanging on from their attack. We did not need to attack and score (although it would have been nice, ala Weah's offside goal) but just continue the attack and press.
I feel like for THIS USMNT the best defense is a good offense. You protect the lead by preventing the opposition from ever having the ball. Previous US teams weren't like that; we were average in midfield but had a dominant goalkeeper in Tim Howard and some good up-front scorers like Dempsey and Donovan, so you could pack it in pretty comfortably after those guys got you a lead. This team is dominant in midfield and okay but not great in the back. Use the midfield guys to keep pressure off the back line!
I agree the US should not be parking the bus. On the other hand they were running out of gas. You could see at close plays. Iran won most of those as we were a step slow. I would advocate of holding a bit more back in the first half so there is more energy in the second half. The team is fast and athletic but needs to be a bit more controlled in the first half. I wouldn't be surprised if they beat Holland. I will not be wearing my orange jersey Saturday.

It also seems like some of the best possession guys (McKinnie, Dest) had health concerns coming in and can't go the whole game. That does make it hard to maintain the same pace in the second half.
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72CalBear
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7:03a, 12/1/22
Go you bloody Aussies!!
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Cal88
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8:50a, 12/1/22
^Awesome recovery for Australia after a rough start, congrats!

Croatia-Belgium - great game, but a bit sad how Belgium lacks fighting spirit, Lukaku missing 3 big chances. Setting up a huge rd of 16th clash between Spain and Croatia, 2 of the top 5 teams in the tourney. Morocco coming out with a dream start to win the group, could easily boot Germany out in the 16 but don`t see them get past Portugal.
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Cal88
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In reply to sluggo • 9:04a, 12/1/22
sluggo said:
Before the tournament based on human intelligence I picked Brazil over France in the finals. But I would not count out England. They have the deepest team, and players will get hurt and pick up cards, so that matters.

Brazil has not beaten France in the WC in my lifetime, and the 3 times they've lost, 86, 98 and 06, they were tournament favorites, with teams that were a lot scarier than this one. As a France supporter, the teams I fear most are Portugal, Spain and Croatia. England is not in that group, they are overrated.
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GMP
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In reply to Cal88 • 9:50a, 12/1/22
Cal88 said:
Poles picked up a yellow, could be signaling to Argentina that they`re happy with the 2-0.

I watched the end of these two games last night and it was incredible drama. Also interesting is that yesterday morning when I saw Saudi Arabia scored I thought, "Ah, well, that's it for Mexico. They can't get two goals in 3 minutes."

When I watched the game, the announcer, Ian Darke, said basically the same thing. But he was corrected by the analyst, Landon Donovan. As Donovan said, the Saudi Arabia goal changed nothing for Mexico. They still needed just one goal. If they had gotten one goal to make it 3-1, Poland and Mexico would have been tied again on goal differential, but Mexico would have won the tiebreak on goals scored.

What a crazy ending that was, and it could have been even crazier.
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Cal88
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10:10a, 12/1/22
Right, that perfect tiebreaker down to the yellow cards is incredibly rare and the very slightest deviation will put it back into GD or goals scored territory. Very exciting world cup so far. The format is perfect, group play lends itself to more open games with teams going for broke, and it gives good teams who misstep a solid chance at redemption.

We're going to see slower starts and more prudent play in the bracket phase, but the excitement and drama of teams having no margin of error makes up for this, there is a premium on experience and mental toughness, that's why teams like Croatia and Portugal are more dangerous going forward.
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