Goobear said:

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Cal88 said:

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sluggo said:

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Games evolve over time. When Pele played, he could order lunch before a defender would come to him. I suppose he was the best of his era, but I only saw him play when he was in the States and over the hill, so I don't know. The best I saw in the 80s and 90s was Maradona. In that era the game was extremely physical, so his strength was valued. He did not put up big stats, but he was great when it counted. In the last 15 years the best I have seen are Messi for shooting and passing and C Ronaldo for scoring in open space. Both are a few years past their primes. The best player of this World Cup is Mbappe.

So I don't think the best players transcend their eras, and in a game of 11 vs 11, the best players can only push their otherwise great teams over the top. Further, in low scoring games lots of upsets happen. I don't think players should be compared solely based on championships.

---

Good take overall.

For Messi though, you will have a hard time finding serious Argentinian followers of the game who will think that he is a better player than Maradona, or that Maradona isn't at the very least the greatest player their country has ever produced. DM practically willed his team to their WC win in 1986, he had a squad that was relatively weak by their country's standards, hardly any stars on that team other than an aging Passarella.


Comment: "What people may not realize is, that just like the title indicates, all of that footage is from just ONE tournament (world cup 1986). This isn't a collection of footages from multiple tournaments, multiple years, clubs, etc. No, this is what he did in ONE tournament. Absolutely stunning performance. No player has ever played with that stamina, skills, speed, etc., in one tournament. "

Pel however had a constellation of talent around him in his WC winning squads, Brazil would have won without him. Half the '70 squad were total legends of Brazilian football on their own: Felix, Tostao, Jairzinho, Rivelinho, Carlos Alberto, Paulo Cesar, all these guys are absolute legends!

No one dominated a WC tournament the way Maradona dominated WC86, maybe Cryuff in `74, but then again that squad had a golden generation of talent around him, not unlike Beckenbauer`s 74 winners. DM also elevated an above avg but hardly spectacular Napoli squad to the top of Serie A, back when it was the best league in Europe.

Maradona had the best touch on the ball I`ve ever seen. He also had the full package, quickness, balance, physicality, dribbling, passing, shooting, scoring instincts as well as phenomenal vision and great intangibles and will, he elevates his teammates to great levels. Messi in comparison is a shrinking violet.

---

Johan Cruyff, one of the best. He had soccer moves no else has ever had. The other guys mentioned have / had speed and great technical kicking skills but not the moves. I saw him play at Ajax when he returned in his later years and he still had it. Holland got robbed in 1974 as West Germany was given a pk based on a flop of a German player. In1978 Holland was there again in the finals against Argentina when as the game was tied Rensenbrink hit the post right before the end of regular time. The Dutch lost in overtime. I am rooting for USA and Holland. Go Bears!

---

You have to think that Holland would have won in 78 had Cruyff been on that team. Also, maybe van Beveren instead of Jongbloed in '74 might have stopped Gerd Muller's goal?

I saw France-Holland twice in Paris, a friendly and a WC82 qual. I guess Holland was going on a lower plateau then, until Gullit and co. came about. What's the outlook for the Oranje in this tournament?

France has only 1 win in their last 6 or 7 games, including 2 losses vs Denmark, not in fine form, but the squad has a lot of upside. Never been a big fan of Deschamps despite the win in '18.

Cal88 said:

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Goobear said:

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Cal88 said:

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sluggo said:

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Games evolve over time. When Pele played, he could order lunch before a defender would come to him. I suppose he was the best of his era, but I only saw him play when he was in the States and over the hill, so I don't know. The best I saw in the 80s and 90s was Maradona. In that era the game was extremely physical, so his strength was valued. He did not put up big stats, but he was great when it counted. In the last 15 years the best I have seen are Messi for shooting and passing and C Ronaldo for scoring in open space. Both are a few years past their primes. The best player of this World Cup is Mbappe.

So I don't think the best players transcend their eras, and in a game of 11 vs 11, the best players can only push their otherwise great teams over the top. Further, in low scoring games lots of upsets happen. I don't think players should be compared solely based on championships.

---

Good take overall.

For Messi though, you will have a hard time finding serious Argentinian followers of the game who will think that he is a better player than Maradona, or that Maradona isn't at the very least the greatest player their country has ever produced. DM practically willed his team to their WC win in 1986, he had a squad that was relatively weak by their country's standards, hardly any stars on that team other than an aging Passarella.


Comment: "What people may not realize is, that just like the title indicates, all of that footage is from just ONE tournament (world cup 1986). This isn't a collection of footages from multiple tournaments, multiple years, clubs, etc. No, this is what he did in ONE tournament. Absolutely stunning performance. No player has ever played with that stamina, skills, speed, etc., in one tournament. "

Pel however had a constellation of talent around him in his WC winning squads, Brazil would have won without him. Half the '70 squad were total legends of Brazilian football on their own: Felix, Tostao, Jairzinho, Rivelinho, Carlos Alberto, Paulo Cesar, all these guys are absolute legends!

No one dominated a WC tournament the way Maradona dominated WC86, maybe Cryuff in `74, but then again that squad had a golden generation of talent around him, not unlike Beckenbauer`s 74 winners. DM also elevated an above avg but hardly spectacular Napoli squad to the top of Serie A, back when it was the best league in Europe.

Maradona had the best touch on the ball I`ve ever seen. He also had the full package, quickness, balance, physicality, dribbling, passing, shooting, scoring instincts as well as phenomenal vision and great intangibles and will, he elevates his teammates to great levels. Messi in comparison is a shrinking violet.

---

Johan Cruyff, one of the best. He had soccer moves no else has ever had. The other guys mentioned have / had speed and great technical kicking skills but not the moves. I saw him play at Ajax when he returned in his later years and he still had it. Holland got robbed in 1974 as West Germany was given a pk based on a flop of a German player. In1978 Holland was there again in the finals against Argentina when as the game was tied Rensenbrink hit the post right before the end of regular time. The Dutch lost in overtime. I am rooting for USA and Holland. Go Bears!

---

You have to think that Holland would have won in 78 had Cruyff been on that team. Also, maybe van Beveren instead of Jongbloed in '74 might have stopped Gerd Muller's goal?

I saw France-Holland twice in Paris, a friendly and a WC82 qual. I guess Holland was going on a lower plateau then, until Gullit and co. came about. What's the outlook for the Oranje in this tournament?

France has only 1 win in their last 6 or 7 games, including 2 losses vs Denmark, not in fine form, but the squad has a lot of upside. Never been a big fan of Deschamps despite the win in '18.

---

Holland has a few good players, but nothing like they did during the many eras when they were good. They were put in a ridiculous bracket with Qatar, Senegal and Ecuador. So they should make the knockout stage.

sosheezy said:

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This video of Maradona warming up pregame for Napoli in '89 to Opus "Live Is Life" is always a fun watch, so skilled, so fun, so coked up.

https://youtu.be/RU2J40

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Articles have been written about this game claiming that this warmup spooked Bayern Munich players who stopped what they were doing to watch Diego.

DiabloWags said:

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Anyone catch the 1 HOUR RANT by the head of FIFA today?

https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/19/football/gianni-infantino-speech-reaction-qatar-2022-world-cup-spt-intl/index.html

Says he knows what discrimination is like cause he grew up as a kid with red hair and freckles.

What a CLOWN!

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+1

Goobear said:

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Cal88 said:

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sluggo said:

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Games evolve over time. When Pele played, he could order lunch before a defender would come to him. I suppose he was the best of his era, but I only saw him play when he was in the States and over the hill, so I don't know. The best I saw in the 80s and 90s was Maradona. In that era the game was extremely physical, so his strength was valued. He did not put up big stats, but he was great when it counted. In the last 15 years the best I have seen are Messi for shooting and passing and C Ronaldo for scoring in open space. Both are a few years past their primes. The best player of this World Cup is Mbappe.

So I don't think the best players transcend their eras, and in a game of 11 vs 11, the best players can only push their otherwise great teams over the top. Further, in low scoring games lots of upsets happen. I don't think players should be compared solely based on championships.

---

Good take overall.

For Messi though, you will have a hard time finding serious Argentinian followers of the game who will think that he is a better player than Maradona, or that Maradona isn't at the very least the greatest player their country has ever produced. DM practically willed his team to their WC win in 1986, he had a squad that was relatively weak by their country's standards, hardly any stars on that team other than an aging Passarella.


Comment: "What people may not realize is, that just like the title indicates, all of that footage is from just ONE tournament (world cup 1986). This isn't a collection of footages from multiple tournaments, multiple years, clubs, etc. No, this is what he did in ONE tournament. Absolutely stunning performance. No player has ever played with that stamina, skills, speed, etc., in one tournament. "

Pel however had a constellation of talent around him in his WC winning squads, Brazil would have won without him. Half the '70 squad were total legends of Brazilian football on their own: Felix, Tostao, Jairzinho, Rivelinho, Carlos Alberto, Paulo Cesar, all these guys are absolute legends!

No one dominated a WC tournament the way Maradona dominated WC86, maybe Cryuff in `74, but then again that squad had a golden generation of talent around him, not unlike Beckenbauer`s 74 winners. DM also elevated an above avg but hardly spectacular Napoli squad to the top of Serie A, back when it was the best league in Europe.

Maradona had the best touch on the ball I`ve ever seen. He also had the full package, quickness, balance, physicality, dribbling, passing, shooting, scoring instincts as well as phenomenal vision and great intangibles and will, he elevates his teammates to great levels. Messi in comparison is a shrinking violet.

---

Johan Cruyff, one of the best. He had soccer moves no else has ever had. The other guys mentioned have / had speed and great technical kicking skills but not the moves. I saw him play at Ajax when he returned in his later years and he still had it. Holland got robbed in 1974 as West Germany was given a pk based on a flop of a German player. In1978 Holland was there again in the finals against Argentina when as the game was tied Rensenbrink hit the post right before the end of regular time. The Dutch lost in overtime. I am rooting for USA and Holland. Go Bears!

---

. Cruyff was amazing. One of the best ever.
. Holland was simply the best team in the 1974 World Cup. Holland (and Ajax) played the original "Beautiful Game" version of Football with wave after wave of orange coming at you.
. Yes, Holland got robbed in the 1974 World Cup in Munich (and, this is from a lover of German Football).

Go Bears!
Go USA!

calbear80 said:

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Goobear said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

sluggo said:

---

Games evolve over time. When Pele played, he could order lunch before a defender would come to him. I suppose he was the best of his era, but I only saw him play when he was in the States and over the hill, so I don't know. The best I saw in the 80s and 90s was Maradona. In that era the game was extremely physical, so his strength was valued. He did not put up big stats, but he was great when it counted. In the last 15 years the best I have seen are Messi for shooting and passing and C Ronaldo for scoring in open space. Both are a few years past their primes. The best player of this World Cup is Mbappe.

So I don't think the best players transcend their eras, and in a game of 11 vs 11, the best players can only push their otherwise great teams over the top. Further, in low scoring games lots of upsets happen. I don't think players should be compared solely based on championships.

---

Good take overall.

For Messi though, you will have a hard time finding serious Argentinian followers of the game who will think that he is a better player than Maradona, or that Maradona isn't at the very least the greatest player their country has ever produced. DM practically willed his team to their WC win in 1986, he had a squad that was relatively weak by their country's standards, hardly any stars on that team other than an aging Passarella.


Comment: "What people may not realize is, that just like the title indicates, all of that footage is from just ONE tournament (world cup 1986). This isn't a collection of footages from multiple tournaments, multiple years, clubs, etc. No, this is what he did in ONE tournament. Absolutely stunning performance. No player has ever played with that stamina, skills, speed, etc., in one tournament. "

Pel however had a constellation of talent around him in his WC winning squads, Brazil would have won without him. Half the '70 squad were total legends of Brazilian football on their own: Felix, Tostao, Jairzinho, Rivelinho, Carlos Alberto, Paulo Cesar, all these guys are absolute legends!

No one dominated a WC tournament the way Maradona dominated WC86, maybe Cryuff in `74, but then again that squad had a golden generation of talent around him, not unlike Beckenbauer`s 74 winners. DM also elevated an above avg but hardly spectacular Napoli squad to the top of Serie A, back when it was the best league in Europe.

Maradona had the best touch on the ball I`ve ever seen. He also had the full package, quickness, balance, physicality, dribbling, passing, shooting, scoring instincts as well as phenomenal vision and great intangibles and will, he elevates his teammates to great levels. Messi in comparison is a shrinking violet.

---

Johan Cruyff, one of the best. He had soccer moves no else has ever had. The other guys mentioned have / had speed and great technical kicking skills but not the moves. I saw him play at Ajax when he returned in his later years and he still had it. Holland got robbed in 1974 as West Germany was given a pk based on a flop of a German player. In1978 Holland was there again in the finals against Argentina when as the game was tied Rensenbrink hit the post right before the end of regular time. The Dutch lost in overtime. I am rooting for USA and Holland. Go Bears!

---

. Cruyff was amazing. One of the best ever.
. Holland was simply the best team in the 1974 World Cup. Holland (and Ajax) played the original "Beautiful Game" version of Football with wave after wave of orange coming at you.
. Yes, Holland got robbed in the 1974 World Cup in Munich (and, this is from a lover of German Football).

Go Bears!
Go USA!

---

Well said!

this year's world cup in qatar is for the socially clueless and/or irresponsible
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/feb/23/revealed-migrant-worker-deaths-qatar-fifa-world-cup-2022

Shocky1 said:

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this year's world cup in qatar is for the socially clueless and/or irresponsible
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/feb/23/revealed-migrant-worker-deaths-qatar-fifa-world-cup-2022

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This whole campaign amounts to shoddy journalism and misplaced western virtue signaling. Qatar has over 2 million foreign blue collar workers, so the death rate of 6,500 since 2010 or 600/year represents a 0.03% annual death rate, or one in 3,300, corresponding to a fatality rate in the 25 per 100,000 range.

You're about 3 times more likely to die chopping trees in the US than being a low-wage foreign worker in Qatar.

8 of America's Most Dangerous Jobs


We don't boycott fisheries or logging because of the inherent dangers in those professions. Granted, the death rates in Qatar will be more concentrated in industries like construction, which have much higher death and injury rates than in the West, but you also have to understand that these workers come from the poorest backgrounds in third world Asia, and the physical risks from going on a Gulf gig might not be higher than those they face living in abysmal poverty at home (consider for example India's farmers suicide rates), while the economic opportunity is great.

Workers from South Asia and elsewhere have been travelling to Gulf countries for 50 years now, so you'd think that if those were death trips the word would have gotten out in those countries.

Overall this backlash is good in that it will prompt Qatar to raise the standards of healthcare and improve their admittedly shoddy treatment of foreign low wage workers. This being said, Qatar has IMHO other human right stains that they share with GCC countries, that of supporting jihadi terrorism in countries like Syria or Libya in order to foment regime change and destabilize those countries, with the complicity of the West. That is an aspect of their human rights profile that doesn't get mentioned as often...

cal88, my point isn't that building stadiums is an unsafe career choice that has killed 6,500+ workers in qatar, the point is that these 6,500+ workers were enslaved (passports taken away) with false promises so you can enjoy the world cup, got it?

maybe u & calbear80 after the world cup could go to rio de janerio afterwards & celebrate fatal dog fighting competitions to satisfy ur consciousless sports thirst...heard that make snuff movies in brazil too so maybe u could check that out 2

Shocky1 said:

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cal88, my point isn't that building stadiums is an unsafe career choice that has killed 6,500+ workers in qatar, the point is that these 6,500+ workers were enslaved (passports taken away) with false promises so you can enjoy the world cup, got it?

---

Building stadiums in Qatar hasn't killed 6,500 foreign workers, I think that figure is the total number of deaths recorded among ~2 million foreign workers there over the past 10+ years. What i did above is to look at these numbers from a more objective and less sensationalist actuarial perspective.

There certainly are many cases of employer abuse in Qatar, but I doubt these cases are representative of the 2 million foreign workers in Qatar, I don't think a world power like India, which is next door, would let hundreds of thousands of its citizens be enslaved in Qatar. People from south Asia have been travelling to the Gulf countries by the millions by their own volition since the 1970s, for all of these workers, the monetary rewards more than outweigh the hardships.

Quote:

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Majority of the Malayali [Keralan] workers who returned to the state of Kerala after losing job due to Covid-19 crisis in the Gulf countries, mostly Saudi Arabia, are keen to migrate again as they are keen to migrate again as they are finding it hard to get regular and remunerative jobs here, finds a study on return of migrants conducted for the centre for development studies (CDC)

---

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/thiruvananthapuram/gulf-returnees-keen-to-migrate-again-study/articleshow/89812520.cms

As well, there are thousands of foreign workers in slave labor situations here in America, and even greater numbers in Europe (where incidentally the hub for human tracking has been Ukraine),, mostly under the grip of organized crime:

Quote:

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The U.S. Department of State estimates that 14,500 to 17,500 people are trafficked into the United States each year.8 However, these numbers do not include the many individuals trafficked within U.S. borders.

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https://www.aclu.org/other/human-trafficking-modern-enslavement-immigrant-women-united-states

Quote:

---

maybe u & calbear80 after the world cup could go to rio de janerio afterwards & celebrate fatal dog fighting competitions to satisfy ur consciousless sports thirst...heard that make snuff movies in brazil too so maybe u could check that out 2

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I still haven't fully recovered from my parents taking me to a corrida in Madrid as a child, so I'll pass on the dogfighting. But you might want to think about what I've posted above wrt human trafficking in the US next time you hit a strip joint.

Tim making his dad proud, nice finish!

Cal88 said:

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Tim making his dad proud, nice finish!

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Yessir! Great half. Dominating possession. Playing through horrible yellow cards. Very clinical goal: great first touch by Sargent, nice run and precision pass by Pulisic and professional finish by Weah.

Bale now with a yellow. Wales is going to open it up second half. Let's get the three points!

yes, assist on a silver platter from the Chelsea lad.

Wales roughed them up in the second half and salvaged the tie. A young team like the USA doesn't know how to play through that yet.

sycasey said:

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Wales roughed them up in the second half and salvaged the tie. A young team like the USA doesn't know how to play through that yet.

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Plus we played 11 guys behind the ball, prevent D. We were dominating possession the first half, and we didn't want to play that way in the second. Berhalter another in the long line of bad US managers.

KoreAmBear said:

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sycasey said:

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Wales roughed them up in the second half and salvaged the tie. A young team like the USA doesn't know how to play through that yet.

---

Plus we played 11 guys behind the ball, prevent D. We were dominating possession the first half, and we didn't want to play that way in the second. Berhalter another in the long line of bad US managers.

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Yes but also guys were limping all over the place thanks to all the fouling. Not sure if they could have dominated possession in that kind of physical shape.

Wales has the advantage of playing England last, if the English have 2 wins in the bag going into that game, they will be happy with a draw. In that situation both teams would qualify with a draw, England winning the group, provided Wales beats Iran.

Cal88 said:

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Wales has the advantage of playing England last, if the English have 2 wins in the bag going into that game, they will be happy with a draw. In that situation both teams would qualify with a draw, England winning the group, provided Wales beats Iran.

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Yup help their UK brothers. So weird that they are in the group together.

sycasey said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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sycasey said:

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Wales roughed them up in the second half and salvaged the tie. A young team like the USA doesn't know how to play through that yet.

---

Plus we played 11 guys behind the ball, prevent D. We were dominating possession the first half, and we didn't want to play that way in the second. Berhalter another in the long line of bad US managers.

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Yes but also guys were limping all over the place thanks to all the fouling. Not sure if they could have dominated possession in that kind of physical shape.

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Yah would have been nice to see Gio Reyna in there.

KoreAmBear said:

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Cal88 said:

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Wales has the advantage of playing England last, if the English have 2 wins in the bag going into that game, they will be happy with a draw. In that situation both teams would qualify with a draw, England winning the group, provided Wales beats Iran.

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Yup help their UK brothers. So weird that they are in the group together.

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Shades of the infamous Anschluss game in 82, where Germany and Austria colluded to advance at the expense of a good Algeria team.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disgrace_of_Gij%C3%B3n

Me and my peers said "F this" to soccer when they tried to introduce it on the playground during recess in 1965 and I still say F it.
When it comes to offense, I can only watch grass grow and metal rust for so long. I will watch the final match, however.

*…..and I do realize, like some owners of NFL teams do, that CTE has caused a reload problem and thus football has a date certain shelf life. Soccer will be King in America one day.

I must have lost 20 IQ points from repeatedly heading a wet, muddy soccer ball as a kid...

"American football causes more central nervous system trauma than soccer due to more frequent and severe linear and rotational impacts. The greater number of high-energy head impacts while playing football, as compared to soccer, result in a bigger risk of injury and consequent CTE.

Hitting the ball with the head in soccer is called "heading"; these repetitive impacts also can injure the brain. An average soccer player reportedly "heads" the ball up to 12 times per game, in addition to heading drills during training.8 However, significant trauma in soccer is more likely to be caused by head-to-player impacts, rather than head-to-ball contacts (40% vs 13%, respectively).9"

Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy: Football vs Soccer | Psychiatrist.com


https://www.psychiatrist.com/pcc/neurologic/chronic-traumatic-encephalopathy-football-versus-soccer/

Good morning: Saudi Arabia 2, Argentina 1.

I don't feel as bad now for losing to CU in football and UC Davis/UCSD/Southern/Texas State in men's hoops.

Shocking!!!!!! Should have stayed up for that, the atmosphere in that stadium must have been completely insane. This throws a wrench into group C, wide open. Also cements Messi's legacy as a big stage shrinking violet, unless they beat Poland and Mexico.

KoreAmBear said:

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Good morning: Saudi Arabia 2, Argentina 1.

I don't feel as bad now for losing to CU in football and UC Davis/UCSD/Southern/Texas State in men's hoops.

---

No! I feel bad for Argentina. Argentina has lost A GAME they clearly should have won.

No, I feel horrible for Cal. Cal has lost FOUR GAMES they clearly should have won.

If Argentina ever loses four games in a row to inferior opponents, I will resign.

Knowlton and Fox, it is time for you to do the honorable thing and resign.

Bring Back Respect To Cal FB, MBB and WBB!

Go Bears!

^This loss is far, far more brutal for Argentina than any Cal football loss, 50 million people are devastated today. Those kinds of bitter national losses can linger on for decades. The only way they can wash it off is by managing to advance in their group, probably two wins against Poland and Mexico, and even then they will have to go pretty far into the tournament to atone for today. This loss has also completely tarnished Messi's legacy both at home and abroad.

Very impressed with my boys today, cruising to an easy dismantling of Oz after a rocky start. They've identified early the weakness in the Roos' defense, lateral defenders, and went after it systematically. It's going to take a seriously good side, and then some, to wrestle the trophy away from Kylian, Antoine, Hugo and co.

Also so far the home field advantage and fan support has been huge not just for Saudi but also for Tunisia, which has handled a pretty decent Danish side that has been in good form this year. It was also helpful for England, which played with confidence.

Japan upsets Germany 2-1! Like Argentina against KSA, Germany also got its lone goal from a PK. It`s a bit less of an upset as Saudi`s though because Germany has been on a lull and Japan has been the top Asian power for a while now, but still a shocker nevertheless.

Germany is looking at an unprecedented second straight group exit, unless they beat Spain and Costa Rica. They didn`t look capable of beating Spain today.

I thought Germany would go a long way in this World Cup. I was wrong. With Germany losing to Japan 2-1 and Spain crushing Costa Rica 7-0 today, there is a better than 50% chance Germany will not make it out of group stage. Yes, the 2014 Champs did not make it out of the group stage in 2018 and it does not look good for them in 2022.

Go Bears!
Go USA!

The Japan win was stunning. Germany led most of the way and looked to be in control, then Japan struck with two quick goals in the span of 8 minutes to win.

Iran's win today throws a wrench into the group, the US will now probably have to beat Iran to qualify, assuming England wins today.

England is a big favorite for the big game today, let's call it the Second Colonial War.

England has a huge travelling fan contingent, and are flying high after their complete dismantling of a decent but demoralized Iran side which has started its tournament poorly. The Eagles have to start strong and establish themselves early with an aggressive game plan, they can't let the Redcoats settle down and dictate ball movement. The US has less to lose in this game and can still qualify by beating Iran, I don't think a tie here helps the Eagles, we have to go for broke, 3 pts or nothing... Go USA!!!

Very good half, defense organized and working well together, good flow in the midfield. There`s going to be more space in the second half with both teams playing high tempo.

US putting the pressure on

Will Berhalter never use Gio one of our most skilled players? Ugh.