Bad ref decision with the penalty here, unfortunate for Croatia

Cal88 said:

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Bad ref decision with the penalty here, unfortunate for Croatia

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Disagree, 100% a penalty.

Croatia really unraveling here.

oski003 said:

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Question. I have a 6 year old son in so cal who is good at soccer and does really well in AYSO. What is the best way to develop his talent if he really likes to play?

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I'm the President of a high level club program. Different sport, different region. I get this type of question a good bit. My answer is to let 6 (or 8 or 10) year olds be kids for a while. During that time their love of the game will either grow or peter out. You cannot control that. It has to happen organically. If you push them too much too early the game becomes not fun and they quit and/or resent you. The balance you are looking for at this age is to get him into increasingly advanced play / training while still having fun. In my sport that usually means transitioning from public (rec) versions of the sport to club versions of the sport. But however you do it in soccer, continuously monitor to make sure proper skill advancement is paired with fun at least until, I don't know for soccer, maybe 12 or 13.

tequila4kapp said:

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oski003 said:

---

Question. I have a 6 year old son in so cal who is good at soccer and does really well in AYSO. What is the best way to develop his talent if he really likes to play?

---

I'm the President of a high level club program. Different sport, different region. I get this type of question a good bit. My answer is to let 6 (or 8 or 10) year olds be kids for a while. During that time their love of the game will either grow or peter out. You cannot control that. It has to happen organically. If you push them too much too early the game becomes not fun and they quit and/or resent you. The balance you are looking for at this age is to get him into increasingly advanced play / training while still having fun. In my sport that usually means transitioning from public (rec) versions of the sport to club versions of the sport. But however you do it in soccer, continuously monitor to make sure proper skill advancement is paired with fun at least until, I don't know for soccer, maybe 12 or 13.

---

I think this idea is right but the age is wrong for soccer. I am a former AYSO coach, which is not saying much, but one of my kids played high level club soccer and had teammates who are now playing in college. Soccer is so complicated that success is not possible without high level technique. That technique is taught between the ages of 9 and 12 (or so). It is at those ages that touch, proper ball striking, and use of both feet is learned. Therefore, I think a good club should be found at 9 or 10. Until then, AYSO is great.

Great run for Croatia, but they got Messi'd.

sluggo said:

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Cal88 said:

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Bad ref decision with the penalty here, unfortunate for Croatia

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Disagree, 100% a penalty.

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He run into Livakovic, can't expect the keeper to just disappear in this situation, and the ball was not in play. In any case, it wasn't the main factor in Argentina's pretty emphatic win, so that's that.

This is setting up a great potential final, France-Argentina would be a more open game than France-Croatia. The France-Argentina 1/8 game last world cup was a spectacular barn-burner, with France making up a one goal deficit in a most emphatic way on a spectacular goal by fullback Pavard (goal of the tournament!), then pulling away with Mbappe sprung open scoring twice.



highlights


Here's the whole game:


Of course there is the other semifinal tomorrow. Morocco can't afford to fall behind, they will probably park the bus and build on counters, but the odds are stacked against them heavily.

If he's in a decent rec league that has a feeder comp club/association connected to it you can always look to tryouts for that comp team. Some comp teams don't go that young but that's where i'd start.

sluggo said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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oski003 said:

---

Question. I have a 6 year old son in so cal who is good at soccer and does really well in AYSO. What is the best way to develop his talent if he really likes to play?

---

I'm the President of a high level club program. Different sport, different region. I get this type of question a good bit. My answer is to let 6 (or 8 or 10) year olds be kids for a while. During that time their love of the game will either grow or peter out. You cannot control that. It has to happen organically. If you push them too much too early the game becomes not fun and they quit and/or resent you. The balance you are looking for at this age is to get him into increasingly advanced play / training while still having fun. In my sport that usually means transitioning from public (rec) versions of the sport to club versions of the sport. But however you do it in soccer, continuously monitor to make sure proper skill advancement is paired with fun at least until, I don't know for soccer, maybe 12 or 13.

---

I think this idea is right but the age is wrong for soccer. I am a former AYSO coach, which is not saying much, but one of my kids played high level club soccer and had teammates who are now playing in college. Soccer is so complicated that success is not possible without high level technique. That technique is taught between the ages of 9 and 12 (or so). It is at those ages that touch, proper ball striking, and use of both feet is learned. Therefore, I think a good club should be found at 9 or 10. Until then, AYSO is great.

---

I think some good advice is being dished out here. I coached AYSO soccer for eight years, four each with a son and daughter. Neither went on in soccer---one tennis, one rowing.

Then along came grandchildren. Had two granddaughters that went all the way through college soccer and the oldest made two Final Fours. There is an intensity there that either the child has a love of the sport or not. It will come through. If it is ho hum, I would almost suggest, let it go. However, if intense I am not sure the way ours went is the best way looking back, even though it worked. Each started in club tryouts at the eight year old level with a top clubs in SoCal. What I don't like about that in looking back is that there is such an intensity, ambition, and competition on the part of the parents, I don't think it is in the best interest of the child. It can wait.

I believe a better solution would be to have the child take privates at the early age and develop foot skills and confidence along with time to decide whether he or she really enjoys the game (not because you do). Believe me if the skills are there the coaches and club teams will find your player at 9 or 10 or even a bit later. As soccer is a strong team game that team development must come pretty early, but not until the player decides if the sport is for him or her.

OdontoBear66 said:

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sluggo said:

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tequila4kapp said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Question. I have a 6 year old son in so cal who is good at soccer and does really well in AYSO. What is the best way to develop his talent if he really likes to play?

---

I'm the President of a high level club program. Different sport, different region. I get this type of question a good bit. My answer is to let 6 (or 8 or 10) year olds be kids for a while. During that time their love of the game will either grow or peter out. You cannot control that. It has to happen organically. If you push them too much too early the game becomes not fun and they quit and/or resent you. The balance you are looking for at this age is to get him into increasingly advanced play / training while still having fun. In my sport that usually means transitioning from public (rec) versions of the sport to club versions of the sport. But however you do it in soccer, continuously monitor to make sure proper skill advancement is paired with fun at least until, I don't know for soccer, maybe 12 or 13.

---

I think this idea is right but the age is wrong for soccer. I am a former AYSO coach, which is not saying much, but one of my kids played high level club soccer and had teammates who are now playing in college. Soccer is so complicated that success is not possible without high level technique. That technique is taught between the ages of 9 and 12 (or so). It is at those ages that touch, proper ball striking, and use of both feet is learned. Therefore, I think a good club should be found at 9 or 10. Until then, AYSO is great.

---

I think some good advice is being dished out here. I coached AYSO soccer for eight years, four each with a son and daughter. Neither went on in soccer---one tennis, one rowing.

Then along came grandchildren. Had two granddaughters that went all the way through college soccer and the oldest made two Final Fours. There is an intensity there that either the child has a love of the sport or not. It will come through. If it is ho hum, I would almost suggest, let it go. However, if intense I am not sure the way ours went is the best way looking back, even though it worked. Each started in club tryouts at the eight year old level with a top clubs in SoCal. What I don't like about that in looking back is that there is such an intensity, ambition, and competition on the part of the parents, I don't think it is in the best interest of the child. It can wait.

I believe a better solution would be to have the child take privates at the early age and develop foot skills and confidence along with time to decide whether he or she really enjoys the game (not because you do). Believe me if the skills are there the coaches and club teams will find your player at 9 or 10 or even a bit later. As soccer is a strong team game that team development must come pretty early, but not until the player decides if the sport is for him or her.

---

Trying him out for the local club. He is good in space, anticipates very well, is extremely competitive and faster than almost everyone else. He needs to develop better dribbling, so I may look at getting him a few lessons. Soccer isn't my top sport, but he has a strong interest. The other kids his age with good dribbling skills seem to have parents who can teach that.

Thank you all for the advice.

oski003 said:

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OdontoBear66 said:

---

sluggo said:

---

tequila4kapp said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Question. I have a 6 year old son in so cal who is good at soccer and does really well in AYSO. What is the best way to develop his talent if he really likes to play?

---

I'm the President of a high level club program. Different sport, different region. I get this type of question a good bit. My answer is to let 6 (or 8 or 10) year olds be kids for a while. During that time their love of the game will either grow or peter out. You cannot control that. It has to happen organically. If you push them too much too early the game becomes not fun and they quit and/or resent you. The balance you are looking for at this age is to get him into increasingly advanced play / training while still having fun. In my sport that usually means transitioning from public (rec) versions of the sport to club versions of the sport. But however you do it in soccer, continuously monitor to make sure proper skill advancement is paired with fun at least until, I don't know for soccer, maybe 12 or 13.

---

I think this idea is right but the age is wrong for soccer. I am a former AYSO coach, which is not saying much, but one of my kids played high level club soccer and had teammates who are now playing in college. Soccer is so complicated that success is not possible without high level technique. That technique is taught between the ages of 9 and 12 (or so). It is at those ages that touch, proper ball striking, and use of both feet is learned. Therefore, I think a good club should be found at 9 or 10. Until then, AYSO is great.

---

I think some good advice is being dished out here. I coached AYSO soccer for eight years, four each with a son and daughter. Neither went on in soccer---one tennis, one rowing.

Then along came grandchildren. Had two granddaughters that went all the way through college soccer and the oldest made two Final Fours. There is an intensity there that either the child has a love of the sport or not. It will come through. If it is ho hum, I would almost suggest, let it go. However, if intense I am not sure the way ours went is the best way looking back, even though it worked. Each started in club tryouts at the eight year old level with a top clubs in SoCal. What I don't like about that in looking back is that there is such an intensity, ambition, and competition on the part of the parents, I don't think it is in the best interest of the child. It can wait.

I believe a better solution would be to have the child take privates at the early age and develop foot skills and confidence along with time to decide whether he or she really enjoys the game (not because you do). Believe me if the skills are there the coaches and club teams will find your player at 9 or 10 or even a bit later. As soccer is a strong team game that team development must come pretty early, but not until the player decides if the sport is for him or her.

---

Trying him out for the local club. He is good in space, anticipates very well, is extremely competitive and faster than almost everyone else. He needs to develop better dribbling, so I may look at getting him a few lessons. Soccer isn't my top sport, but he has a strong interest. The other kids his age with good dribbling skills seem to have parents who can teach that.

Thank you all for the advice.

---

In my sport it is very important to choose wisely when you make this switch. The parent dynamic can start getting in the way. They want little Johnny to be a superstar. They care too much about the team winning. Also, not all clubs are built the same, not all clubs are in it for the betterment of the kids, not all coaches have the ability to develop the kids.

Look for coaches who have excellent knowledge of the game and a track record of teaching the game, developing individual skill and getting the kids to start working in a coordinated way as a team.

Ask questions - what are your coaching philosophies? What is your coaching background? Watch the coaches run practices. Are their practices organized? Is it apparent they are executing against a practice plan? Or are the kids just standing around?

Going club gives you a chance to have a proper developmental experience for your son but it is not a guarantee.

In Europe or south America, most of the development at his age would come from playing pickup games at the local park and in school courtyards with slightly older players, dribbling and passing the ball all afternoon many times per week. Works out great if he has an older brother, cousin or neighbors of his age. Playing in leagues on big fields at his age is a waste of time.

I think part of the reason US soccer has underachieved is because there is too much emphasis on organized/structured soccer at too early an age. US basketball is supreme precisely because there is a highly developed playground/pickup game culture that exceeds anything in Europe. Not the case in soccer...

sluggo said:

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tequila4kapp said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Question. I have a 6 year old son in so cal who is good at soccer and does really well in AYSO. What is the best way to develop his talent if he really likes to play?

---

I'm the President of a high level club program. Different sport, different region. I get this type of question a good bit. My answer is to let 6 (or 8 or 10) year olds be kids for a while. During that time their love of the game will either grow or peter out. You cannot control that. It has to happen organically. If you push them too much too early the game becomes not fun and they quit and/or resent you. The balance you are looking for at this age is to get him into increasingly advanced play / training while still having fun. In my sport that usually means transitioning from public (rec) versions of the sport to club versions of the sport. But however you do it in soccer, continuously monitor to make sure proper skill advancement is paired with fun at least until, I don't know for soccer, maybe 12 or 13.

---

I think this idea is right but the age is wrong for soccer. I am a former AYSO coach, which is not saying much, but one of my kids played high level club soccer and had teammates who are now playing in college. Soccer is so complicated that success is not possible without high level technique. That technique is taught between the ages of 9 and 12 (or so). It is at those ages that touch, proper ball striking, and use of both feet is learned. Therefore, I think a good club should be found at 9 or 10. Until then, AYSO is great.

---

This makes sense, but for my kid we moved to club this year, at U9. He's a very good athlete in general (baseball, soccer in particular). He's also very competitive. Luckily, he's very polite to his coaches and teammates, so we don't have to work with him on that despite his competitive spirit.

But he was starting to enjoy soccer less last year as many of his teammates did not care about soccer as much as he does. Parents had signed their kids up and the kids showed no enjoyment in being out there and thus no effort. This frustrated my son and he was not having as much fun while busting his butt. So a group of 3-4 kids from his school team joined a club. It's been great so far and he's enjoying it. I am concerned about over commitment. But as an example, after playing in tournaments the last three weekends, this week he asked to take a break from winter training and we were happy to oblige. We also passed on winter futsal with much of his team to let him play basketball and flag football, both of which he is very excited about.

Cal88 said:

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In Europe or south America, most of the development at his age would come from playing pickup games at the local park and in school courtyards with slightly older players, dribbling and passing the ball all afternoon many times per week. Works out great if he has an older brother, cousin or neighbors of his age. Playing in leagues on big fields at his age is a waste of time.

I think part of the reason US soccer has underachieved is because there is too much emphasis on organized/structured soccer at too early an age. US basketball is supreme precisely because there is a highly developed playground/pickup game culture that exceeds anything in Europe. Not the case in soccer...

---

Yes, I think this is the best way to develop, playing thousands of hours with friends and neighbors developing coordination and ideas. And then at a certain age bringing those skills to a formal training environment. But that never existed here, and it never will, as informal play here has greatly decreased. I am not sure it even exists in basketball any more.

Since it doesn't, a lot of soccer development experts recommend futsal. Futsal, which is small sided soccer often played on basketball courts, demands dribbling ability and creativity. I think it is part of development around the world along with pickup.

sluggo said:

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Cal88 said:

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In Europe or south America, most of the development at his age would come from playing pickup games at the local park and in school courtyards with slightly older players, dribbling and passing the ball all afternoon many times per week. Works out great if he has an older brother, cousin or neighbors of his age. Playing in leagues on big fields at his age is a waste of time.

I think part of the reason US soccer has underachieved is because there is too much emphasis on organized/structured soccer at too early an age. US basketball is supreme precisely because there is a highly developed playground/pickup game culture that exceeds anything in Europe. Not the case in soccer...

---

Yes, I think this is the best way to develop, playing thousands of hours with friends and neighbors developing coordination and ideas. And then at a certain age bringing those skills to a formal training environment. But that never existed here, and it never will, as informal play here has greatly decreased. I am not sure it even exists in basketball any more.

Since it doesn't, a lot of soccer development experts recommend futsal. Futsal, which is small sided soccer often played on basketball courts, demands dribbling ability and creativity. I think it is part of development around the world along with pickup.

---

Do you recommend looking for a local futsal league for kids?

Cal88 said:

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sluggo said:

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TandemBear said:

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That penalty kick awarded to Argentina?

Are you kidding me? That was so lame, I'm tempted to say FIFA and the World Cup is so COMPLETELY corrupt, it isn't worth watching.

The Dutch player BARELY touched his foot, he flops and the dumb**** ref falls for it. Look at the slow-motion replay and it was OBVIOUS no penalty was committed on that play, much less one that rises to deserve a PK. Plus, it was barely on the line, if even, and the automotron ref immediately points to the PK spot. But worse? WAY worse? NO VAR REVIEW???? W-T-F do you have VAR when it isn't used to SCRUTINIZE a game-altering bull**** call when the WC is on the line?

Beyond disgusting. I don't expect refs to get it right every time. But when they tend to favor the "pre-supposed winner" or the team with the "arguable GOAT" and then fail to review a CRUCIAL ticky-tacky call via VAR, then this becomes a farce. The Dutch were completely jobbed on this one.

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I was half watching so I am not sure what happened but why do you think there was no var? Isn't it possible that var took one look and agreed with the call and thus there was no delay?

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One feature that got virtually eliminated is the indirect kick inside the box, which would be called for very light/involuntary fouls and hand balls, at the discretion of the referee. It placed a greater responsibility on the ref's shoulders but when properly applied by a capable ref, was a great and very fair option.

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Another perspective:
The PK call - a clear tripping foul (DFK) committed by a defender within his own penalty area ==> PK.
Note: The severity of force used is only one of several considerations when calling a foul.

VAR apparently agreed with the call as there was no stoppage of play to review the call.
Communication between Ref and VAR is not obvious as they use the RefTalk wireless communication system.

Clarification on LotG:
Indirect Free Kick (IFK) foul restarts are awarded for specific "Technical Offenses" (of which there are ten - not counting Offside restart or Free Kick double-touch violations).
IFK examples: (A) Playing in a Dangerous Manner (PIADM) or (B) a Keeper picking up the ball with her hands directly from a teammate's throw-in.

In general, Free Kick restarts are given from the point of the foul/infraction (with a few exceptions). Hence,
if an IFK restart is given for a violation committed by a defender within his own penalty area, then there would be an IFK restart (NOT a PK) for the attacking team within the defending team's penalty area at the spot of the violation (again with exceptions as to the exact spot of the restart).

Only DFK/PK restarts are given (NOT IFK) for player physical contact fouls. Handballs (Intentional Handling) are considered a physical contact foul so those also have a DFK/PK restart.

The referee does NOT have the discretion to "downgrade" a DFK/PK restart to an IFK restart.

oski003 said:

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OdontoBear66 said:

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sluggo said:

---

tequila4kapp said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Question. I have a 6 year old son in so cal who is good at soccer and does really well in AYSO. What is the best way to develop his talent if he really likes to play?

---

I'm the President of a high level club program. Different sport, different region. I get this type of question a good bit. My answer is to let 6 (or 8 or 10) year olds be kids for a while. During that time their love of the game will either grow or peter out. You cannot control that. It has to happen organically. If you push them too much too early the game becomes not fun and they quit and/or resent you. The balance you are looking for at this age is to get him into increasingly advanced play / training while still having fun. In my sport that usually means transitioning from public (rec) versions of the sport to club versions of the sport. But however you do it in soccer, continuously monitor to make sure proper skill advancement is paired with fun at least until, I don't know for soccer, maybe 12 or 13.

---

I think this idea is right but the age is wrong for soccer. I am a former AYSO coach, which is not saying much, but one of my kids played high level club soccer and had teammates who are now playing in college. Soccer is so complicated that success is not possible without high level technique. That technique is taught between the ages of 9 and 12 (or so). It is at those ages that touch, proper ball striking, and use of both feet is learned. Therefore, I think a good club should be found at 9 or 10. Until then, AYSO is great.

---

I think some good advice is being dished out here. I coached AYSO soccer for eight years, four each with a son and daughter. Neither went on in soccer---one tennis, one rowing.

Then along came grandchildren. Had two granddaughters that went all the way through college soccer and the oldest made two Final Fours. There is an intensity there that either the child has a love of the sport or not. It will come through. If it is ho hum, I would almost suggest, let it go. However, if intense I am not sure the way ours went is the best way looking back, even though it worked. Each started in club tryouts at the eight year old level with a top clubs in SoCal. What I don't like about that in looking back is that there is such an intensity, ambition, and competition on the part of the parents, I don't think it is in the best interest of the child. It can wait.

I believe a better solution would be to have the child take privates at the early age and develop foot skills and confidence along with time to decide whether he or she really enjoys the game (not because you do). Believe me if the skills are there the coaches and club teams will find your player at 9 or 10 or even a bit later. As soccer is a strong team game that team development must come pretty early, but not until the player decides if the sport is for him or her.

---

Trying him out for the local club. He is good in space, anticipates very well, is extremely competitive and faster than almost everyone else. He needs to develop better dribbling, so I may look at getting him a few lessons. Soccer isn't my top sport, but he has a strong interest. The other kids his age with good dribbling skills seem to have parents who can teach that.

Thank you all for the advice.

---

Good in space at the age of six? Everyone is not just chasing after the ball?

Private lessons won't hurt or anything, but it is a bit early. Soccer skills are developed over many, many hours. Like reading or doing arithmetic, he will start doing it better when his brain is ready. Regular soccer practice over months and years will allow that development. Just my two cents.

oski003 said:

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sluggo said:

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Cal88 said:

---

In Europe or south America, most of the development at his age would come from playing pickup games at the local park and in school courtyards with slightly older players, dribbling and passing the ball all afternoon many times per week. Works out great if he has an older brother, cousin or neighbors of his age. Playing in leagues on big fields at his age is a waste of time.

I think part of the reason US soccer has underachieved is because there is too much emphasis on organized/structured soccer at too early an age. US basketball is supreme precisely because there is a highly developed playground/pickup game culture that exceeds anything in Europe. Not the case in soccer...

---

Yes, I think this is the best way to develop, playing thousands of hours with friends and neighbors developing coordination and ideas. And then at a certain age bringing those skills to a formal training environment. But that never existed here, and it never will, as informal play here has greatly decreased. I am not sure it even exists in basketball any more.

Since it doesn't, a lot of soccer development experts recommend futsal. Futsal, which is small sided soccer often played on basketball courts, demands dribbling ability and creativity. I think it is part of development around the world along with pickup.

---

Do you recommend looking for a local futsal league for kids?

---

For development, yes. It also looks like great fun. One of my kids played and enjoyed it.

Cal88 said:

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In Europe or south America, most of the development at his age would come from playing pickup games at the local park and in school courtyards with slightly older players, dribbling and passing the ball all afternoon many times per week. Works out great if he has an older brother, cousin or neighbors of his age. Playing in leagues on big fields at his age is a waste of time.

I think part of the reason US soccer has underachieved is because there is too much emphasis on organized/structured soccer at too early an age. US basketball is supreme precisely because there is a highly developed playground/pickup game culture that exceeds anything in Europe. Not the case in soccer...

---

Ok my 2 cents. I grew up in The Netherlands. As kids from age 6 we played in parks doing pick up games and played on the local soccer club. We played with smaller balls not the regular size as it was thought those bigger size balls are for grown ups. What smaller balls do is develop a more detailed level of technique. We also practice at home and kick the ball against the wall with both feet without stopping. All these skills were worked on at a very young age. We played 1 game a week on Saturdays early and trained with the club once a week. I would focus on basic technique, kicking with both feet, juggling the ball and keeping things fun. The rest can come later. I think burnout at a an age before high school is a real thing. That is why so many kids stop playing soccer.

Agree re burnout / fun.

In softball there is a real dynamic that happens at about age 14 with kids quitting the sport vs. sticking with it. The kids who give up the sport say things like "I want to try other things", "I just want to have fun", "I want to do real life stuff like a teenager," etc. It is all code for doing too much too early and being burned out. It is interesting to me that virtually every girl reaches that same crossroads about that age.

France already scored. Wow.

Goobear said:

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Cal88 said:

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In Europe or south America, most of the development at his age would come from playing pickup games at the local park and in school courtyards with slightly older players, dribbling and passing the ball all afternoon many times per week. Works out great if he has an older brother, cousin or neighbors of his age. Playing in leagues on big fields at his age is a waste of time.

I think part of the reason US soccer has underachieved is because there is too much emphasis on organized/structured soccer at too early an age. US basketball is supreme precisely because there is a highly developed playground/pickup game culture that exceeds anything in Europe. Not the case in soccer...

---

Ok my 2 cents. I grew up in The Netherlands. As kids from age 6 we played in parks doing pick up games and played on the local soccer club. We played with smaller balls not the regular size as it was thought those bigger size balls are for grown ups. What smaller balls do is develop a more detailed level of technique. We also practice at home and kick the ball against the wall with both feet without stopping. All these skills were worked on at a very young age. We played 1 game a week on Saturdays early and trained with the club once a week. I would focus on basic technique, kicking with both feet, juggling the ball and keeping things fun. The rest can come later. I think burnout at a an age before high school is a real thing. That is why so many kids stop playing soccer.

---

Your points are good ones. In the 1960s and before, we played whatever sport was in season with no parental involvement (unless you played Little League baseball). My sons started as 5 year-olds in the mid-90s playing soccer, but also basketball and baseball up until they were 10-12 then dropped whatever wasn't interesting and in some cases (track, volleyball) picked up something else. Soccer was the one constant - all the way through club-level in college. We didn't care what sport they played, but we wanted was for them to learn three things:

• The value of playing on a team
• The value of exercise and what it feels like to be really fit
• The fact that, if you practice something, you will get better

EDIT - All was not a bed of roses, however. Between the two sons, they had one broken foot, one concussion, two ACL tears in college, and within the last year, another ACL tear and a broken wrist while playing in a co-ed adult league!

I really thought Morraco looked much better than expected … yet France handled them pretty well. I don't know about matchups and style of play and all that but France has to be the favorite over Argentina, right?

Even with all of the random upsets, I think if you'd told people before the tournament started that the final was going to be Argentina vs. France they would not have been surprised.

sycasey said:

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Even with all of the random upsets, I think if you'd told people before the tournament started that the final was going to be Argentina vs. France they would not have been surprised.

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Surprised, no. But I ran a pool with 85 entrants. Each got to pick two teams from Pot 1 (Brazil, Argentina, France, England, Belgium, Portugal, Spain). Only six picked both Argentina and France (brag: I was one of them). That's pretty low.

tequila4kapp said:

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I really thought Morraco looked much better than expected … yet France handled them pretty well. I don't know about matchups and style of play and all that but France has to be the favorite over Argentina, right?

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Morocco lacked the finishing touch, they spent quite a bit of time in the French box but failed to capitalize on it 2-3 times when they couldn't fire a good shot. As well Lloris had another great outing, with a couple of solid saves.

I think the USMNT is in the same category as Morocco as far as finishing skills. You look at Hernandez' first goal, it looks deceptively easy, but actually is a very difficult technical feat that requires a combination of both superior skills and great soccer intelligence to pull through instantly. And Hernandez is the backup left fullback on this team, not supposed to be the guy to pull this off. Same with Pavard, a fullback who scored the goal of the tournament 4 years ago against Argentina, on a scorching volley shot from outside the corner of the box that bent into the far corner, the goal of a lifetime. There are maybe 15-20 players on the French roster who are capable of that kind of finishing, it is this quality that separates good teams from the top teams.



As well there is a bit of team handball knowledge in that Hernandez shot, that the hardest balls to stop from close range are those bouncing hard right in front of the goal's mouth. The Moroccan defender was right there completely closing the short side angle, he would have easily stopped a straight shot below the waist from this angle, but instead the ball bounced right in front of him going by his outstretched leg. Team handball and futsal help hone those kinds of scoring instincts. Team handball is emphasized in France, we did a lot of it during PE classes (had a PE teacher who was a former French international handball player), partly for lack of space in urban areas, our school only had a concrete team handball court where we wasted afternoons playing pickup soccer after class, but the only real soccer fields we had access to where further out (incidentally there was a full soccer field done with clay nearby, just like at Rolland Garros, in the parc on the island of La Jatte made famous by Seurat's famous painting below, one of the best pieces at the Chicago Art Institute).



For the final, I feel that France wins this game maybe 6-7 times out of 10. My guys handled a solid Argentina team 4 years ago with a younger fresher Messi, in addition to Di Maria and playmaker Kun Aguero,both now out with injuries, in what might have been the best game in the last world cup, game that ended in a 4-3 France win (highlights and full game posted above). Di Maria might come in as a sub Sunday, nursing a quad injury.

On paper that '18 team is a better team than this Argentina side, but they now have momentum, are gelling, and their new guys have stepped up. As well the French midfield have played well individually but lacked organizational fluidity at a unit (this has been historically the strength of French teams, rather than the current lineup with great forwards), largely due to the new lineup with the absence of two starters. It will probably be another barn-burner, 3-2 France in regular time, or 2-2 overtime.

To my eye Morraco's finishing problems were actually France being very good on D, closing on the offenseive players quickly and not giving Morroco space to create / take shots.

I thought the Hernandez goal was every bit as difficult as you say.

My admittedly simplistic way of seeing the final game is that if we accept that France has the best scorers (young Mbappe > old Messi) and if France proved their defensive chops against Morraco, then good luck Argentina.

Yes indeed France was good enough on D to close off Moroccan attacks in the box, but world-class lighting-quick finishers like Argentina's would have probably fared better and been able to capitalize.

Argentina will also probably have home field advantage, they should have twice as many supporters, and their fans have been more passionate. I've noticed that a lot of the European fan contingents from England, France etc were mostly retirees, older dudes in their late 50s and 60s, who had the time and means to go to Qatar, whereas with other countries like Morocco or Argentina, you have got mostly middle class younger fans who broke their piggybank for the pilgrimage of a lifetime and who have been giving it their all from the stands...

tequila4kapp said:

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To my eye Morraco's finishing problems were actually France being very good on D, closing on the offenseive players quickly and not giving Morroco space to create / take shots.

I thought the Hernandez goal was every bit as difficult as you say.

My admittedly simplistic way of seeing the final game is that if we accept that France has the best scorers (young Mbappe > old Messi) and if France proved their defensive chops against Morraco, then good luck Argentina.

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Argentina has something going for them. A number of their players made great, incisive long passes against Croatia. Messi is the best at little slip passes to beat the back line. France is less likely to break down Argentina with such passes. But they are much faster, dribble better, and are better in the air. There should be goals, with with one or two extra to France. I say 3-2 France.

I agree with Cal88 about France winning 2 out of 3 times. I hope the virus that has hit the French team does not spread.

GMP said:

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sycasey said:

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Even with all of the random upsets, I think if you'd told people before the tournament started that the final was going to be Argentina vs. France they would not have been surprised.

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Surprised, no. But I ran a pool with 85 entrants. Each got to pick two teams from Pot 1 (Brazil, Argentina, France, England, Belgium, Portugal, Spain). Only six picked both Argentina and France (brag: I was one of them). That's pretty low.

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What was the most predicted final?

I would guess England-Brazil was up there.

sluggo said:

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philly1121 said:

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Well he released a statement on IG saying that Greg told him his playing time would be limited right when they arrived in Qatar. He admitted he let his emotions get the best of him and tanked the scrimmage against Al-Gharafa. But he says the coach and team intervened, he apologized and everyone moved forward.

Not sure how Berhalter thinks that releasing this info does any good at all except to shed light on why Gio didn't play.

Berhalter needs to judge games better. he's good in first half but he can't adjust fast enough in the 2nd.

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A coach who did not think he needed this guy is not a coach I want. Coaches can be replaced, a talent like this comes along very rarely. I hope he is not renewed. Other than a rigid system that does not lead to goals, neither in qualifying (the US just barely qualified) nor in the World Cup, I agree that he is not clever enough to adjust tactics in games.

GIOVANNI REYNA ROCKET 🚀🚀🚀 pic.twitter.com/mvfbZofhEU

— 🇺🇸 USMNT vs Haters (@USMNTvsHaters) December 10, 2022

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If teammates called him out, per reports, the issue lives on no matter who is coach.
And that could be a good thing.
Steel sharpens steel.

oski003 said:

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Question. I have a 6 year old son in so cal who is good at soccer and does really well in AYSO. What is the best way to develop his talent if he really likes to play?

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Don't burn him out!!

When you move him up to comp teams, he will increasingly look not so good and become psychologically wounded for life.

Either that, or he'll thrive but since soccer will become all he has known in life he will abandon it for marijuana in a hotel room like Jennifer Caprioti.

It's good to be a big fish in a small pond during the age of development.
Stay golden, ponyboy.

Take him for ice cream.
Turn your garage into a futsal court and see if he and his friends use it. Unstructured subconscious training = PLAY.

Learning how to escape tight spaces is key. That's futsal. Mbappe speed is god given. Trickery is muscle memory.

tequila4kapp said:

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oski003 said:

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Question. I have a 6 year old son in so cal who is good at soccer and does really well in AYSO. What is the best way to develop his talent if he really likes to play?

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I'm the President of a high level club program. Different sport, different region. I get this type of question a good bit. My answer is to let 6 (or 8 or 10) year olds be kids for a while. During that time their love of the game will either grow or peter out. You cannot control that. It has to happen organically. If you push them too much too early the game becomes not fun and they quit and/or resent you. The balance you are looking for at this age is to get him into increasingly advanced play / training while still having fun. In my sport that usually means transitioning from public (rec) versions of the sport to club versions of the sport. But however you do it in soccer, continuously monitor to make sure proper skill advancement is paired with fun at least until, I don't know for soccer, maybe 12 or 13.

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My girls did the club route. I coached them at times and they were coached by others as they aged.
I agree with you, but think there's a 98% this 6 year old doesn't end up a soccer addict. Therefore, it just comes down to raising a psychologically well adjusted human. Too much of all the club soccer is about wins and losses and pecking order of players, amongst themselves as mimicked behavior. That's no good.
Most end up burning out.

Mbappe has 5 goals from the run of play. Messi has 2 + 3PK goals.

I like goals from the run of play.
Will be a great final. Everyone should enjoy!


Too bad the broadcast starts at 6am. I think that means kickoff starts 7am pacific?

Oh well.
For the French, they are 9 hours ahead, and Buenos Aires is 5 ahead.
So, that would be kickoff at 4pm in Paris, which is ideal, like a Super Bowl Sunday.
In Buenos Aires, kickoff at noon. That's fun, too - especially if they win! They have all evening to get drunk!