OT: James Wiseman Gone. GP2 BACK!!!

6,318 Views | 43 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by Ursine
DiabloWags
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Dubs part ways with Wiseman and get GP2 back!

KD heads to Phoenix.

Wow!!!


The Golden State Warriors are trading recent No. 2 overall pick James Wiseman to the Detroit Pistons in a series of deals that nets them a reunion with defensive-minded guard Gary Payton II, per multiple reports.

The Atlanta Hawks will reportedly receive Saddiq Bey from the Pistons as part of a three-team transaction.

Golden State received five second-round picks from Atlanta and reserve forward Kevin Knox from Detroit, all which will be rerouted to Portland for Payton in a separate deal, ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski reported.

Report: Golden State Warriors effectively trade James Wiseman for a Gary Payton II reunion (yahoo.com)

"Cults don't end well. They really don't."
Bobodeluxe
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With the number 2 pick of the 2020 draft, the gswarrios pick, a guy on their two way roster!
BulaBear3cubs
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GS probably could have done better, maybe picking Lamelo Ball, but it definitely wasn't a great draft and not the year to have the #2 pick.
JimSox
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Very glad to see GP2 back. He was a huge help in last season's championship, and I was sorry he wasn't re-signed. But the way the Dubs are playing, doubt this will be enough to rescue the season.
Wiseman never broke into the rotation, so the trade is clearly a gain. But the loss of a young player with possible though unproven big potential does not bode well for the team's future.
oski003
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BulaBear3cubs said:

GS probably could have done better, maybe picking Lamelo Ball, but it definitely wasn't a great draft and not the year to have the #2 pick.


1. Minnesota Timberwolves - Anthony Edwards, SG/SF
2. Golden State Warriors - Tyrese Haliburton, PG/SG
3. Charlotte Hornets - LaMelo Ball, PG
4. Chicago Bulls - Desmond Bane, SG
5. Cleveland Cavaliers - Tyrese Maxey, PG/SG
6. Atlanta Hawks - Devin Vassell, SG/SF
7. Detroit Pistons - Immanuel Quickley, PG
8. New York Knicks - Obi Toppin, PF
9. Washington Wizards - Onyeka Okongwu, C
10. Phoenix Suns - Saddiq Bey, SF
11. San Antonio Spurs - Aleksej Pokusevski, PF
12. Sacramento Kings - Cole Anthony, PG
13. New Orleans Pelicans - Isaiah Stewart, PF/C
14. Boston Celtics - James Wiseman, C
15. Orlando Magic - Jaden McDaniels, SF
concernedparent
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oski003 said:

BulaBear3cubs said:

GS probably could have done better, maybe picking Lamelo Ball, but it definitely wasn't a great draft and not the year to have the #2 pick.


1. Minnesota Timberwolves - Anthony Edwards, SG/SF
2. Golden State Warriors - Tyrese Haliburton, PG/SG
3. Charlotte Hornets - LaMelo Ball, PG
4. Chicago Bulls - Desmond Bane, SG
5. Cleveland Cavaliers - Tyrese Maxey, PG/SG
6. Atlanta Hawks - Devin Vassell, SG/SF
7. Detroit Pistons - Immanuel Quickley, PG
8. New York Knicks - Obi Toppin, PF
9. Washington Wizards - Onyeka Okongwu, C
10. Phoenix Suns - Saddiq Bey, SF
11. San Antonio Spurs - Aleksej Pokusevski, PF
12. Sacramento Kings - Cole Anthony, PG
13. New Orleans Pelicans - Isaiah Stewart, PF/C
14. Boston Celtics - James Wiseman, C
15. Orlando Magic - Jaden McDaniels, SF
LaMelo was the only other sensible option at 2. Everyone else would've been a risky reach.
philbert
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Realistically, if they'd picked Ball at #2, Poole doesn't develop and help them win last season. Would Ball have done the same thing instead of Poole? Tough to say but Poole had some huge playoff games last year.
oski003
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concernedparent said:

oski003 said:

BulaBear3cubs said:

GS probably could have done better, maybe picking Lamelo Ball, but it definitely wasn't a great draft and not the year to have the #2 pick.


1. Minnesota Timberwolves - Anthony Edwards, SG/SF
2. Golden State Warriors - Tyrese Haliburton, PG/SG
3. Charlotte Hornets - LaMelo Ball, PG
4. Chicago Bulls - Desmond Bane, SG
5. Cleveland Cavaliers - Tyrese Maxey, PG/SG
6. Atlanta Hawks - Devin Vassell, SG/SF
7. Detroit Pistons - Immanuel Quickley, PG
8. New York Knicks - Obi Toppin, PF
9. Washington Wizards - Onyeka Okongwu, C
10. Phoenix Suns - Saddiq Bey, SF
11. San Antonio Spurs - Aleksej Pokusevski, PF
12. Sacramento Kings - Cole Anthony, PG
13. New Orleans Pelicans - Isaiah Stewart, PF/C
14. Boston Celtics - James Wiseman, C
15. Orlando Magic - Jaden McDaniels, SF
LaMelo was the only other sensible option at 2. Everyone else would've been a risky reach.


Mock drafts had Haliburton at #6. Not that much of a stretch. Haliburton > Poole
DiabloWags
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The trade saves the Dubs $12 million.

Wiseman's injuries held him back, kept him out of any spot in the rotation. The younger players, by and large, have not progressed as well as Kerr had liked.

They need to play D and win NOW.
GP2 allows them to do that.
"Cults don't end well. They really don't."
operbear
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Wiseman showed zero court awareness.
Will he develop this with more time?
I doubt it.
Operbear
Unit2Sucks
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philbert said:

Realistically, if they'd picked Ball at #2, Poole doesn't develop and help them win last season. Would Ball have done the same thing instead of Poole? Tough to say but Poole had some huge playoff games last year.
Yeah, even with Poole struggling a bit this year, I think he's a much better fit for the Dubs system than Ball. Possible that Ball would have developed differently with the dubs, but Poole was already a bird in hand.

If Poole can play a bit better and Steph comes back healthy, the dubs can win it again this year. GP2 can be a difference maker again in the playoffs whereas Wiseman was at least a year away from contributing meaningful minutes. The fact that the Dubs moved on from him likely means they felt he was never going to be a difference maker on this team.
Ursine
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philbert said:

Realistically, if they'd picked Ball at #2, Poole doesn't develop and help them win last season. Would Ball have done the same thing instead of Poole? Tough to say but Poole had some huge playoff games last year.
Poole is a bit of a ballhog and loose with his handle and I'm not sure I've seen him play defense yet
Big C
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Ursine said:

philbert said:

Realistically, if they'd picked Ball at #2, Poole doesn't develop and help them win last season. Would Ball have done the same thing instead of Poole? Tough to say but Poole had some huge playoff games last year.
Poole is a bit of a ballhog and loose with his handle and I'm not sure I've seen him play defense yet

That's probably why Draymond was trying to knock some sense into him.
heartofthebear
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Apparently the GS Warriors have a lot more to do with the Cal Bears than the 49ers do.
MiZery
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I could see Halliburton as a second pick. He leads the nba in assists
Anarchistbear
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Mostly a salary dump with the addition of a role player who knows the system but -with Irving and Durant coming west-inconsequential
Nofado
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Halliburton was the steal of the draft at 14
philbert
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There is still time but most of the picks in the lottery that year don't look like stars. The draft is such a crapshoot.
MilleniaBear
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Supposedly Wiseman's contract this year and next WITH tax penalties cost the Dubs $131M. Thats a lot to pay for him to ride the pine.
concernedparent
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oski003 said:

concernedparent said:

oski003 said:

BulaBear3cubs said:

GS probably could have done better, maybe picking Lamelo Ball, but it definitely wasn't a great draft and not the year to have the #2 pick.


1. Minnesota Timberwolves - Anthony Edwards, SG/SF
2. Golden State Warriors - Tyrese Haliburton, PG/SG
3. Charlotte Hornets - LaMelo Ball, PG
4. Chicago Bulls - Desmond Bane, SG
5. Cleveland Cavaliers - Tyrese Maxey, PG/SG
6. Atlanta Hawks - Devin Vassell, SG/SF
7. Detroit Pistons - Immanuel Quickley, PG
8. New York Knicks - Obi Toppin, PF
9. Washington Wizards - Onyeka Okongwu, C
10. Phoenix Suns - Saddiq Bey, SF
11. San Antonio Spurs - Aleksej Pokusevski, PF
12. Sacramento Kings - Cole Anthony, PG
13. New Orleans Pelicans - Isaiah Stewart, PF/C
14. Boston Celtics - James Wiseman, C
15. Orlando Magic - Jaden McDaniels, SF
LaMelo was the only other sensible option at 2. Everyone else would've been a risky reach.


Mock drafts had Haliburton at #6. Not that much of a stretch. Haliburton > Poole
There was a clear top 3 that year. Hindsight is 20/20. You want to be the GM making that call? You can just as easily end up with Killian Hayes and take the heat for trying to outsmart everyone by reaching.
oski003
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concernedparent said:

oski003 said:

concernedparent said:

oski003 said:

BulaBear3cubs said:

GS probably could have done better, maybe picking Lamelo Ball, but it definitely wasn't a great draft and not the year to have the #2 pick.


1. Minnesota Timberwolves - Anthony Edwards, SG/SF
2. Golden State Warriors - Tyrese Haliburton, PG/SG
3. Charlotte Hornets - LaMelo Ball, PG
4. Chicago Bulls - Desmond Bane, SG
5. Cleveland Cavaliers - Tyrese Maxey, PG/SG
6. Atlanta Hawks - Devin Vassell, SG/SF
7. Detroit Pistons - Immanuel Quickley, PG
8. New York Knicks - Obi Toppin, PF
9. Washington Wizards - Onyeka Okongwu, C
10. Phoenix Suns - Saddiq Bey, SF
11. San Antonio Spurs - Aleksej Pokusevski, PF
12. Sacramento Kings - Cole Anthony, PG
13. New Orleans Pelicans - Isaiah Stewart, PF/C
14. Boston Celtics - James Wiseman, C
15. Orlando Magic - Jaden McDaniels, SF
LaMelo was the only other sensible option at 2. Everyone else would've been a risky reach.


Mock drafts had Haliburton at #6. Not that much of a stretch. Haliburton > Poole
There was a clear top 3 that year. Hindsight is 20/20. You want to be the GM making that call? You can just as easily end up with Killian Hayes and take the heat for trying to outsmart everyone by reaching.


Not a consensus. Wiseman was a gamble with tremendous upside.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2896887-nba-mock-draft-2020-predictions-for-james-wiseman-most-polarizing-prospects.amp.html

Joe Murphy/Getty Images
NBA Mock Draft 2020: Predictions for James Wiseman, Most Polarizing Prospects
ZACH BUCKLEY
JUNE 20, 2020

No two scouting reports are the same, but the amount of differences between them varies from one NBA draft prospect to the next.

Sometimes, it's a subtle change or a slight disagreement about ceiling or fit. For the most polarizing players in the field, reports may not seem like they are about the same player. While one will celebrate his strengths, another will be fixated on his weaknesses. One evaluator will see a star on the rise, while the next sees only a bust.

We'll take a closer look at three of the most polarizing prospects in this draft below.




2020 NBA Mock Draft

1. Golden State Warriors: Anthony Edwards, SG, Georgia

2. Cleveland Cavaliers: James Wiseman, C, Memphis

3. Minnesota Timberwolves: LaMelo Ball, PG/SG, Illawarra Hawks

4. Atlanta Hawks: Obi Toppin, PF/C, Dayton

5. Detroit Pistons: Onyeka Okongwu, PF/C, USC

6. New York Knicks: Killian Hayes, PG, Ratiopharm Ulm

7. Chicago Bulls: Devin Vassell, SF, Florida State

8. Charlotte Hornets: Tyrese Haliburton, PG, Iowa State

9. Washington Wizards: Isaac Okoro, SF/PF, Auburn

10. Phoenix Suns: Deni Avdija, SF/PF, Maccabi Tel Aviv

11. San Antonio Spurs: Cole Anthony, PG, North Carolina

12. Sacramento Kings: RJ Hampton, SG, New Zealand Breakers

13. New Orleans Pelicans: Aaron Nesmith, SF, Vanderbilt

14. Portland Trail Blazers: Patrick Williams, PF, Florida State

15. Orlando Magic: Kira Lewis Jr., PG, Alabama

16. Minnesota Timberwolves (via Brooklyn Nets): Tyrese Maxey, SG, Kentucky

17. Boston Celtics (via Memphis Grizzlies): Saddiq Bey, SF/PF, Villanova

18. Dallas Mavericks: Theo Maledon, PG, ASVEL

19. Milwaukee Bucks (via Indiana Pacers): Leandro Bolmaro, SG/SF, Barcelona

20. Brooklyn Nets (via Philadelphia 76ers): Jaden McDaniels, SF/PF, Washington

21. Denver Nuggets (via Houston Rockets): Robert Woodard II, SF, Mississippi State

22. Philadelphia 76ers (via Oklahoma City Thunder): Tyrell Terry, PG, Stanford

23. Miami Heat: Nico Mannion, PG, Arizona

24. Utah Jazz: Precious Achiuwa, PF/C, Memphis

25. Oklahoma City Thunder (via Denver Nuggets): Jahmi'us Ramsey, SG, Texas Tech

26. Boston Celtics: Aleksej Pokusevski, PF, Olympiacos B

27. New York Knicks (via Los Angeles Clippers): Tyler Bey, SF/PF, Colorado

28. Toronto Raptors: Daniel Oturu, C, Minnesota


29. Los Angeles Lakers: Cassius Winston, PG, Michigan State

30. Boston Celtics (via Milwaukee Bucks): Isaiah Stewart, C, Washington



James Wiseman, C, Memphis

This time last year, James Wiseman seemed immune to polarity. He set atop the recruiting rankings and seemed ticketed for stardom.

But his one-and-done run with the Tigers never got off the ground. He only made three appearances before the NCAA suspended him for rules violations, and he left the school to focus on draft preparation shortly thereafter. That wasn't nearly enough time to answer the questions scouts have about his fit in the modern game.

"His skill level and awareness are well behind his tools and athletic traits," B/R's Jonathan Wasserman wrote. "In today's NBA, Wiseman doesn't project as a player to run offense through, and he doesn't come off as a switchable or interchangeable big."

That said, Wiseman's tools and traits are tremendoushe's a 7'1", 240-pounder with bounceand it's easy to envision him wreaking havoc as a rim-runner. He has also shown promise on short jumpers, and with the right coaching, he could expand his offensive range and improve his footwork to handle some defensive switching.

His upside is enormous. His downside might keep him forever locked into a complementary role. He usually doesn't make it beyond the top five of mock drafts, but there are big boardslike Wasserman'sthat don't have Wiseman as a top-10 prospect.
MrGPAC
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Wiseman just hasn't played much basketball.

Highschool bball when you are over a foot taller than everyone else isn't really a great place to learn technique or court awareness.

College is a good start, but he got what, 6 games of college ball?

In the NBA he got injured, then the warriors were in a position where they couldn't afford to let him learn on the job while costing them games.

He has tremendous potential but he needs minutes to learn one of the most demanding positions in the league that is notorious for having late bloomers due to all of the technical aspects that have to be learned through repetition.

It is 100% possible that Wiseman will never get it, but it is absolutely clear that he was never going to figure it out with the Warriors. Its just unfortunate that due to the huge mismatch in needs for Wiseman and ability to feed those needs by the Warriors that Wiseman's trade value absolutely tanked.
concernedparent
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oski003 said:

concernedparent said:

oski003 said:

concernedparent said:

oski003 said:

BulaBear3cubs said:

GS probably could have done better, maybe picking Lamelo Ball, but it definitely wasn't a great draft and not the year to have the #2 pick.


1. Minnesota Timberwolves - Anthony Edwards, SG/SF
2. Golden State Warriors - Tyrese Haliburton, PG/SG
3. Charlotte Hornets - LaMelo Ball, PG
4. Chicago Bulls - Desmond Bane, SG
5. Cleveland Cavaliers - Tyrese Maxey, PG/SG
6. Atlanta Hawks - Devin Vassell, SG/SF
7. Detroit Pistons - Immanuel Quickley, PG
8. New York Knicks - Obi Toppin, PF
9. Washington Wizards - Onyeka Okongwu, C
10. Phoenix Suns - Saddiq Bey, SF
11. San Antonio Spurs - Aleksej Pokusevski, PF
12. Sacramento Kings - Cole Anthony, PG
13. New Orleans Pelicans - Isaiah Stewart, PF/C
14. Boston Celtics - James Wiseman, C
15. Orlando Magic - Jaden McDaniels, SF
LaMelo was the only other sensible option at 2. Everyone else would've been a risky reach.


Mock drafts had Haliburton at #6. Not that much of a stretch. Haliburton > Poole
There was a clear top 3 that year. Hindsight is 20/20. You want to be the GM making that call? You can just as easily end up with Killian Hayes and take the heat for trying to outsmart everyone by reaching.


Not a consensus. Wiseman was a gamble with tremendous upside.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2896887-nba-mock-draft-2020-predictions-for-james-wiseman-most-polarizing-prospects.amp.html

Joe Murphy/Getty Images
NBA Mock Draft 2020: Predictions for James Wiseman, Most Polarizing Prospects
ZACH BUCKLEY
JUNE 20, 2020

No two scouting reports are the same, but the amount of differences between them varies from one NBA draft prospect to the next.

Sometimes, it's a subtle change or a slight disagreement about ceiling or fit. For the most polarizing players in the field, reports may not seem like they are about the same player. While one will celebrate his strengths, another will be fixated on his weaknesses. One evaluator will see a star on the rise, while the next sees only a bust.

We'll take a closer look at three of the most polarizing prospects in this draft below.




2020 NBA Mock Draft

1. Golden State Warriors: Anthony Edwards, SG, Georgia

2. Cleveland Cavaliers: James Wiseman, C, Memphis

3. Minnesota Timberwolves: LaMelo Ball, PG/SG, Illawarra Hawks

4. Atlanta Hawks: Obi Toppin, PF/C, Dayton

5. Detroit Pistons: Onyeka Okongwu, PF/C, USC

6. New York Knicks: Killian Hayes, PG, Ratiopharm Ulm

7. Chicago Bulls: Devin Vassell, SF, Florida State

8. Charlotte Hornets: Tyrese Haliburton, PG, Iowa State

9. Washington Wizards: Isaac Okoro, SF/PF, Auburn

10. Phoenix Suns: Deni Avdija, SF/PF, Maccabi Tel Aviv

11. San Antonio Spurs: Cole Anthony, PG, North Carolina

12. Sacramento Kings: RJ Hampton, SG, New Zealand Breakers

13. New Orleans Pelicans: Aaron Nesmith, SF, Vanderbilt

14. Portland Trail Blazers: Patrick Williams, PF, Florida State

15. Orlando Magic: Kira Lewis Jr., PG, Alabama

16. Minnesota Timberwolves (via Brooklyn Nets): Tyrese Maxey, SG, Kentucky

17. Boston Celtics (via Memphis Grizzlies): Saddiq Bey, SF/PF, Villanova

18. Dallas Mavericks: Theo Maledon, PG, ASVEL

19. Milwaukee Bucks (via Indiana Pacers): Leandro Bolmaro, SG/SF, Barcelona

20. Brooklyn Nets (via Philadelphia 76ers): Jaden McDaniels, SF/PF, Washington

21. Denver Nuggets (via Houston Rockets): Robert Woodard II, SF, Mississippi State

22. Philadelphia 76ers (via Oklahoma City Thunder): Tyrell Terry, PG, Stanford

23. Miami Heat: Nico Mannion, PG, Arizona

24. Utah Jazz: Precious Achiuwa, PF/C, Memphis

25. Oklahoma City Thunder (via Denver Nuggets): Jahmi'us Ramsey, SG, Texas Tech

26. Boston Celtics: Aleksej Pokusevski, PF, Olympiacos B

27. New York Knicks (via Los Angeles Clippers): Tyler Bey, SF/PF, Colorado

28. Toronto Raptors: Daniel Oturu, C, Minnesota


29. Los Angeles Lakers: Cassius Winston, PG, Michigan State

30. Boston Celtics (via Milwaukee Bucks): Isaiah Stewart, C, Washington



James Wiseman, C, Memphis

This time last year, James Wiseman seemed immune to polarity. He set atop the recruiting rankings and seemed ticketed for stardom.

But his one-and-done run with the Tigers never got off the ground. He only made three appearances before the NCAA suspended him for rules violations, and he left the school to focus on draft preparation shortly thereafter. That wasn't nearly enough time to answer the questions scouts have about his fit in the modern game.

"His skill level and awareness are well behind his tools and athletic traits," B/R's Jonathan Wasserman wrote. "In today's NBA, Wiseman doesn't project as a player to run offense through, and he doesn't come off as a switchable or interchangeable big."

That said, Wiseman's tools and traits are tremendoushe's a 7'1", 240-pounder with bounceand it's easy to envision him wreaking havoc as a rim-runner. He has also shown promise on short jumpers, and with the right coaching, he could expand his offensive range and improve his footwork to handle some defensive switching.

His upside is enormous. His downside might keep him forever locked into a complementary role. He usually doesn't make it beyond the top five of mock drafts, but there are big boardslike Wasserman'sthat don't have Wiseman as a top-10 prospect.
Could you share a mock draft that didn't have Wiseman in the top 3? Especially curious to see a big board that doesn't have him in the top 10.
oski003
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concernedparent said:

oski003 said:

concernedparent said:

oski003 said:

concernedparent said:

oski003 said:

BulaBear3cubs said:

GS probably could have done better, maybe picking Lamelo Ball, but it definitely wasn't a great draft and not the year to have the #2 pick.


1. Minnesota Timberwolves - Anthony Edwards, SG/SF
2. Golden State Warriors - Tyrese Haliburton, PG/SG
3. Charlotte Hornets - LaMelo Ball, PG
4. Chicago Bulls - Desmond Bane, SG
5. Cleveland Cavaliers - Tyrese Maxey, PG/SG
6. Atlanta Hawks - Devin Vassell, SG/SF
7. Detroit Pistons - Immanuel Quickley, PG
8. New York Knicks - Obi Toppin, PF
9. Washington Wizards - Onyeka Okongwu, C
10. Phoenix Suns - Saddiq Bey, SF
11. San Antonio Spurs - Aleksej Pokusevski, PF
12. Sacramento Kings - Cole Anthony, PG
13. New Orleans Pelicans - Isaiah Stewart, PF/C
14. Boston Celtics - James Wiseman, C
15. Orlando Magic - Jaden McDaniels, SF
LaMelo was the only other sensible option at 2. Everyone else would've been a risky reach.


Mock drafts had Haliburton at #6. Not that much of a stretch. Haliburton > Poole
There was a clear top 3 that year. Hindsight is 20/20. You want to be the GM making that call? You can just as easily end up with Killian Hayes and take the heat for trying to outsmart everyone by reaching.


Not a consensus. Wiseman was a gamble with tremendous upside.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2896887-nba-mock-draft-2020-predictions-for-james-wiseman-most-polarizing-prospects.amp.html

Joe Murphy/Getty Images
NBA Mock Draft 2020: Predictions for James Wiseman, Most Polarizing Prospects
ZACH BUCKLEY
JUNE 20, 2020

No two scouting reports are the same, but the amount of differences between them varies from one NBA draft prospect to the next.

Sometimes, it's a subtle change or a slight disagreement about ceiling or fit. For the most polarizing players in the field, reports may not seem like they are about the same player. While one will celebrate his strengths, another will be fixated on his weaknesses. One evaluator will see a star on the rise, while the next sees only a bust.

We'll take a closer look at three of the most polarizing prospects in this draft below.




2020 NBA Mock Draft

1. Golden State Warriors: Anthony Edwards, SG, Georgia

2. Cleveland Cavaliers: James Wiseman, C, Memphis

3. Minnesota Timberwolves: LaMelo Ball, PG/SG, Illawarra Hawks

4. Atlanta Hawks: Obi Toppin, PF/C, Dayton

5. Detroit Pistons: Onyeka Okongwu, PF/C, USC

6. New York Knicks: Killian Hayes, PG, Ratiopharm Ulm

7. Chicago Bulls: Devin Vassell, SF, Florida State

8. Charlotte Hornets: Tyrese Haliburton, PG, Iowa State

9. Washington Wizards: Isaac Okoro, SF/PF, Auburn

10. Phoenix Suns: Deni Avdija, SF/PF, Maccabi Tel Aviv

11. San Antonio Spurs: Cole Anthony, PG, North Carolina

12. Sacramento Kings: RJ Hampton, SG, New Zealand Breakers

13. New Orleans Pelicans: Aaron Nesmith, SF, Vanderbilt

14. Portland Trail Blazers: Patrick Williams, PF, Florida State

15. Orlando Magic: Kira Lewis Jr., PG, Alabama

16. Minnesota Timberwolves (via Brooklyn Nets): Tyrese Maxey, SG, Kentucky

17. Boston Celtics (via Memphis Grizzlies): Saddiq Bey, SF/PF, Villanova

18. Dallas Mavericks: Theo Maledon, PG, ASVEL

19. Milwaukee Bucks (via Indiana Pacers): Leandro Bolmaro, SG/SF, Barcelona

20. Brooklyn Nets (via Philadelphia 76ers): Jaden McDaniels, SF/PF, Washington

21. Denver Nuggets (via Houston Rockets): Robert Woodard II, SF, Mississippi State

22. Philadelphia 76ers (via Oklahoma City Thunder): Tyrell Terry, PG, Stanford

23. Miami Heat: Nico Mannion, PG, Arizona

24. Utah Jazz: Precious Achiuwa, PF/C, Memphis

25. Oklahoma City Thunder (via Denver Nuggets): Jahmi'us Ramsey, SG, Texas Tech

26. Boston Celtics: Aleksej Pokusevski, PF, Olympiacos B

27. New York Knicks (via Los Angeles Clippers): Tyler Bey, SF/PF, Colorado

28. Toronto Raptors: Daniel Oturu, C, Minnesota


29. Los Angeles Lakers: Cassius Winston, PG, Michigan State

30. Boston Celtics (via Milwaukee Bucks): Isaiah Stewart, C, Washington



James Wiseman, C, Memphis

This time last year, James Wiseman seemed immune to polarity. He set atop the recruiting rankings and seemed ticketed for stardom.

But his one-and-done run with the Tigers never got off the ground. He only made three appearances before the NCAA suspended him for rules violations, and he left the school to focus on draft preparation shortly thereafter. That wasn't nearly enough time to answer the questions scouts have about his fit in the modern game.

"His skill level and awareness are well behind his tools and athletic traits," B/R's Jonathan Wasserman wrote. "In today's NBA, Wiseman doesn't project as a player to run offense through, and he doesn't come off as a switchable or interchangeable big."

That said, Wiseman's tools and traits are tremendoushe's a 7'1", 240-pounder with bounceand it's easy to envision him wreaking havoc as a rim-runner. He has also shown promise on short jumpers, and with the right coaching, he could expand his offensive range and improve his footwork to handle some defensive switching.

His upside is enormous. His downside might keep him forever locked into a complementary role. He usually doesn't make it beyond the top five of mock drafts, but there are big boardslike Wasserman'sthat don't have Wiseman as a top-10 prospect.
Could you share a mock draft that didn't have Wiseman in the top 3? Especially curious to see a big board that doesn't have him in the top 10.


The top one, ESPN, shows Wiseman at #16 and Haliburton at #2.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/29335461/2020-nba-draft-projections-ranking-top-30-prospects&ved=2ahUKEwjNo8ng9Iv9AhX4AUQIHR_CCl8Qjjh6BAgtEAE&usg=AOvVaw2oz6uikl8K3rHzCNaLRyBb

https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2918218-2020-nba-draft-big-board-top-50-prospects.amp.html

https://therookiewire.usatoday.com/lists/2020-nba-mock-draft-big-board-top-players-best-prospects/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thebirdwrites.com/platform/amp/2020/11/17/21564309/2020-nba-draft-rankings-final-board-pfeifer-lamelo-wiseman-edwards-hayes-okongwu-haliburton-pelicans

concernedparent
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oski003 said:

concernedparent said:

oski003 said:

concernedparent said:

oski003 said:

concernedparent said:

oski003 said:

BulaBear3cubs said:

GS probably could have done better, maybe picking Lamelo Ball, but it definitely wasn't a great draft and not the year to have the #2 pick.


1. Minnesota Timberwolves - Anthony Edwards, SG/SF
2. Golden State Warriors - Tyrese Haliburton, PG/SG
3. Charlotte Hornets - LaMelo Ball, PG
4. Chicago Bulls - Desmond Bane, SG
5. Cleveland Cavaliers - Tyrese Maxey, PG/SG
6. Atlanta Hawks - Devin Vassell, SG/SF
7. Detroit Pistons - Immanuel Quickley, PG
8. New York Knicks - Obi Toppin, PF
9. Washington Wizards - Onyeka Okongwu, C
10. Phoenix Suns - Saddiq Bey, SF
11. San Antonio Spurs - Aleksej Pokusevski, PF
12. Sacramento Kings - Cole Anthony, PG
13. New Orleans Pelicans - Isaiah Stewart, PF/C
14. Boston Celtics - James Wiseman, C
15. Orlando Magic - Jaden McDaniels, SF
LaMelo was the only other sensible option at 2. Everyone else would've been a risky reach.


Mock drafts had Haliburton at #6. Not that much of a stretch. Haliburton > Poole
There was a clear top 3 that year. Hindsight is 20/20. You want to be the GM making that call? You can just as easily end up with Killian Hayes and take the heat for trying to outsmart everyone by reaching.


Not a consensus. Wiseman was a gamble with tremendous upside.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2896887-nba-mock-draft-2020-predictions-for-james-wiseman-most-polarizing-prospects.amp.html

Joe Murphy/Getty Images
NBA Mock Draft 2020: Predictions for James Wiseman, Most Polarizing Prospects
ZACH BUCKLEY
JUNE 20, 2020

No two scouting reports are the same, but the amount of differences between them varies from one NBA draft prospect to the next.

Sometimes, it's a subtle change or a slight disagreement about ceiling or fit. For the most polarizing players in the field, reports may not seem like they are about the same player. While one will celebrate his strengths, another will be fixated on his weaknesses. One evaluator will see a star on the rise, while the next sees only a bust.

We'll take a closer look at three of the most polarizing prospects in this draft below.




2020 NBA Mock Draft

1. Golden State Warriors: Anthony Edwards, SG, Georgia

2. Cleveland Cavaliers: James Wiseman, C, Memphis

3. Minnesota Timberwolves: LaMelo Ball, PG/SG, Illawarra Hawks

4. Atlanta Hawks: Obi Toppin, PF/C, Dayton

5. Detroit Pistons: Onyeka Okongwu, PF/C, USC

6. New York Knicks: Killian Hayes, PG, Ratiopharm Ulm

7. Chicago Bulls: Devin Vassell, SF, Florida State

8. Charlotte Hornets: Tyrese Haliburton, PG, Iowa State

9. Washington Wizards: Isaac Okoro, SF/PF, Auburn

10. Phoenix Suns: Deni Avdija, SF/PF, Maccabi Tel Aviv

11. San Antonio Spurs: Cole Anthony, PG, North Carolina

12. Sacramento Kings: RJ Hampton, SG, New Zealand Breakers

13. New Orleans Pelicans: Aaron Nesmith, SF, Vanderbilt

14. Portland Trail Blazers: Patrick Williams, PF, Florida State

15. Orlando Magic: Kira Lewis Jr., PG, Alabama

16. Minnesota Timberwolves (via Brooklyn Nets): Tyrese Maxey, SG, Kentucky

17. Boston Celtics (via Memphis Grizzlies): Saddiq Bey, SF/PF, Villanova

18. Dallas Mavericks: Theo Maledon, PG, ASVEL

19. Milwaukee Bucks (via Indiana Pacers): Leandro Bolmaro, SG/SF, Barcelona

20. Brooklyn Nets (via Philadelphia 76ers): Jaden McDaniels, SF/PF, Washington

21. Denver Nuggets (via Houston Rockets): Robert Woodard II, SF, Mississippi State

22. Philadelphia 76ers (via Oklahoma City Thunder): Tyrell Terry, PG, Stanford

23. Miami Heat: Nico Mannion, PG, Arizona

24. Utah Jazz: Precious Achiuwa, PF/C, Memphis

25. Oklahoma City Thunder (via Denver Nuggets): Jahmi'us Ramsey, SG, Texas Tech

26. Boston Celtics: Aleksej Pokusevski, PF, Olympiacos B

27. New York Knicks (via Los Angeles Clippers): Tyler Bey, SF/PF, Colorado

28. Toronto Raptors: Daniel Oturu, C, Minnesota


29. Los Angeles Lakers: Cassius Winston, PG, Michigan State

30. Boston Celtics (via Milwaukee Bucks): Isaiah Stewart, C, Washington



James Wiseman, C, Memphis

This time last year, James Wiseman seemed immune to polarity. He set atop the recruiting rankings and seemed ticketed for stardom.

But his one-and-done run with the Tigers never got off the ground. He only made three appearances before the NCAA suspended him for rules violations, and he left the school to focus on draft preparation shortly thereafter. That wasn't nearly enough time to answer the questions scouts have about his fit in the modern game.

"His skill level and awareness are well behind his tools and athletic traits," B/R's Jonathan Wasserman wrote. "In today's NBA, Wiseman doesn't project as a player to run offense through, and he doesn't come off as a switchable or interchangeable big."

That said, Wiseman's tools and traits are tremendoushe's a 7'1", 240-pounder with bounceand it's easy to envision him wreaking havoc as a rim-runner. He has also shown promise on short jumpers, and with the right coaching, he could expand his offensive range and improve his footwork to handle some defensive switching.

His upside is enormous. His downside might keep him forever locked into a complementary role. He usually doesn't make it beyond the top five of mock drafts, but there are big boardslike Wasserman'sthat don't have Wiseman as a top-10 prospect.
Could you share a mock draft that didn't have Wiseman in the top 3? Especially curious to see a big board that doesn't have him in the top 10.


The top one, ESPN, shows Wiseman at #16 and Haliburton at #2.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/29335461/2020-nba-draft-projections-ranking-top-30-prospects&ved=2ahUKEwjNo8ng9Iv9AhX4AUQIHR_CCl8Qjjh6BAgtEAE&usg=AOvVaw2oz6uikl8K3rHzCNaLRyBb

https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2918218-2020-nba-draft-big-board-top-50-prospects.amp.html

https://therookiewire.usatoday.com/lists/2020-nba-mock-draft-big-board-top-players-best-prospects/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thebirdwrites.com/platform/amp/2020/11/17/21564309/2020-nba-draft-rankings-final-board-pfeifer-lamelo-wiseman-edwards-hayes-okongwu-haliburton-pelicans


Thanks for digging up the links.
calumnus
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concernedparent said:

oski003 said:

concernedparent said:

oski003 said:

BulaBear3cubs said:

GS probably could have done better, maybe picking Lamelo Ball, but it definitely wasn't a great draft and not the year to have the #2 pick.


1. Minnesota Timberwolves - Anthony Edwards, SG/SF
2. Golden State Warriors - Tyrese Haliburton, PG/SG
3. Charlotte Hornets - LaMelo Ball, PG
4. Chicago Bulls - Desmond Bane, SG
5. Cleveland Cavaliers - Tyrese Maxey, PG/SG
6. Atlanta Hawks - Devin Vassell, SG/SF
7. Detroit Pistons - Immanuel Quickley, PG
8. New York Knicks - Obi Toppin, PF
9. Washington Wizards - Onyeka Okongwu, C
10. Phoenix Suns - Saddiq Bey, SF
11. San Antonio Spurs - Aleksej Pokusevski, PF
12. Sacramento Kings - Cole Anthony, PG
13. New Orleans Pelicans - Isaiah Stewart, PF/C
14. Boston Celtics - James Wiseman, C
15. Orlando Magic - Jaden McDaniels, SF
LaMelo was the only other sensible option at 2. Everyone else would've been a risky reach.


Mock drafts had Haliburton at #6. Not that much of a stretch. Haliburton > Poole
There was a clear top 3 that year. Hindsight is 20/20. You want to be the GM making that call? You can just as easily end up with Killian Hayes and take the heat for trying to outsmart everyone by reaching.


Agree hindsight is 20/20, but disagree about there being a clear Top 3, it was one of the least obvious and most debatable drafts in a long time. Ball, well, there were reasons people were hesitant. I liked Obi Toppin based on his metrics and productivity that made him the college player of the year, plus fitting the Warriors, but other than his just winning the 2022 slam dunk competition, he hasn't proven to be much better than Wiseman might have been if healthy.
Unit2Sucks
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GP2 failed his physical. Ruh roh.

Ursine
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Unit2Sucks said:

GP2 failed his physical. Ruh roh.


Portland should be punished by the league for trying to trade off damaged goods.
DiabloWags
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Agreed.

They gave him pain meds and told him just to ride it out.
Portland needs to be fined HEAVILY for lack of disclosure and give back some of those draft picks.

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/warriors/sources-warriors-interested-keeping-gary-payton-ii-despite-failed-physical


"Cults don't end well. They really don't."
Ursine
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MiZery said:

I could see Halliburton as a second pick. He leads the nba in assists
Ideally, if the Warriors couldn't have found a trade partner to trade down out of the pick to #4 and pick Haliburton, staying pat and drafting him would have been the best move in retrospect.
DiabloWags
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Breaking at 3PM

GP2 trade has been rumored to go through.

NBA rumors: Warriors' Gary Payton II, four-team trade to go through (yahoo.com)

Warriors launch complete against Blazers.
Launching an NBA investigation.

Golden State Warriors File Complaint Against Portland Trail Blazers, Launching NBA Investigation - Blazer's Edge (blazersedge.com)



"Cults don't end well. They really don't."
concordtom
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MilleniaBear said:

Supposedly Wiseman's contract this year and next WITH tax penalties cost the Dubs $131M. Thats a lot to pay for him to ride the pine.

Except you must add back in Payton's salary and his luxury tax too boot, so we don't actually save that much, relatively speaking.

W's botched the draft, the development of wise, letting Payton go, and the trade, as Payton is injured.

So much for "light years ahead".
concordtom
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Halliburton may not have developed with the squad we had, too.
Much of it is situational.
Unless you are Olajuwon.

I really don't understand why the Warriors wouldn't develop a system where their 19 year olds go play 2 years together in Santa Cruz, win the league title, and THEN come up.

No excuse for Wiseman to have not been there all the time when not injured!
DiabloWags
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concordtom said:

MilleniaBear said:

Supposedly Wiseman's contract this year and next WITH tax penalties cost the Dubs $131M. Thats a lot to pay for him to ride the pine.

Except you must add back in Payton's salary and his luxury tax too boot, so we don't actually save that much, relatively speaking.

W's botched the draft, the development of wise, letting Payton go, and the trade, as Payton is injured.

So much for "light years ahead".

"He's owed $9.6 million this year and $12.2 million next year, meaning that San Antonio, Detroit, Utah or Indiana could trade for him without sending anything back. Such a transaction would save the Warriors about $51 million in salary and tax this year and an estimated $85 million in salary and tax next year; a total of $131 million in savings to dump a guy who rarely plays."

- - - John Hollinger, The Athletic

Hollinger: At NBA trade deadline, follow the money on tax-team deals; Indy road trip notes - The Athletic
"Cults don't end well. They really don't."
MrGPAC
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concordtom said:

Halliburton may not have developed with the squad we had, too.
Much of it is situational.
Unless you are Olajuwon.

I really don't understand why the Warriors wouldn't develop a system where their 19 year olds go play 2 years together in Santa Cruz, win the league title, and THEN come up.

No excuse for Wiseman to have not been there all the time when not injured!

Wiseman needed playtime and reps more than anything. The Warriors were unable to afford him that opportunity and absolutely should have sent him to the gleague to get minutes.

Best I can tell members of the front office bought hard on Wiseman's potential while severely underestimating how long it takes centers to learn the league combined with just how little playing experience Wiseman has had.

Meanwhile, Kerr was unwilling to give Wiseman the opportunity to learn in live games. I think ultimately the rest of the vets spoke privately with the FO saying this isn't going to work is what caused them to eventually cut ties. There are unconfirmed reports that at least Curry did, but ultimately the whole thing seems to wreak of a disagreement between the FO and the coaching staff, and Wiseman got caught in the crossfire.

As to the question about sending their 19 year olds to go play 2 years together in Santa Cruz...it does beg the question about the purpose of the Gleague, and whether or not the 19 year olds would have been better off learning in college.

Core players:
Stephan Curry - 3 years in college
Draymond Green - 4 years in college
Klay Thompson - 3 years in college

The 19 year olds:
Wiseman - 6 games in college
Kuminga - 0 college (1 year in gleague)
Moody - 1 year in college

I would argue college is a better learning environment than the Gleague, and if you are looking for a "2 time lines" approach, getting the best of the collegiate players may be the smarter move, as they will come into the league far more polished. While Kerr seems to be a great coach at getting the maximum out of players, helping them establish a strong foundation doesn't appear to be his strong suit.

For what its worth, Haliburton had 2 years in college.
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