socaltownie said:
Rushinbear said:
Econ141 said:
HKBear97! said:
Econ141 said:
Blueblood said:
Old news......before this last football season (see, its starting to happen, that is MWC redux):
Blueblood said:
Western HIgh Mountain Pacific (WHIMP) Conference
SOUTH
Cal
San Jose' State (they'll go where Cal goes...)
San Diego State or Sacramento State
Fresno State
UNLV
Nevada
NORTH
Oregon State (They're headed elsewhere...or if not, the Beavs will consistently beat Cal like a bass drum)
Boise State (if Cal murders Idaho....Idaho will replace Boise State)
Utah State
Washington State
Colorado (Maybe Colorado State......not The Buffs with their new head coach)
Utah or Air Force Academy (Forget Utah, they're too big time for Cal)
This is great - can't wait for the world to associate us with the likes of Fresno st and Utah state. This shouldn't have any impact on our reputation right?
Hate to break it to you, but our reputation sucks already. This wouldn't change it one way or the other.
I'm talking about academic as well. While Northwestern, UCLA, Wisconsin and the likes play football in a conference that advertises/markets nationally - the gap between them and is (which has already closed if not slightly surpassed us already) will continue to move in the wrong dire tion. It's best we close up shop and go the Cal Tech route to preserve academic rep.
If we go the Cal Tech route, we will see a reduction in alumni giving to the academic side as well as a reduction in male applicants. Lesser extent of reductions if we de emphasize through lesser conference affiliation. It's either big time, with its expenses to keep up, or de-emphasis/or withdrawal with their inherent reductions in revenue with inherent costs of some degree. And a change in our value of providing excellence to ALL Cali young people (not to mention the nation and the world).
As a community of learning, we are split as to values that we want to pursue and protect. There are those who say we cannot pursue and protect academic values to the fullest, if we provide varsity sports. Others say that we cannot pursue academic values without varsity sports. That varsity sports are part and parcel of academic learning. That they are no different from The Dance and other disciplines of the Fine Arts, say. I'm in the latter group.
I think this is right. There are VERY few schools (essentially UCI, UCSD, Riverside and UCSB) that are....
1) AAU members
2) More than 20K undergrads
3) Annual donations over 100 million
That DON'T play D1 Football. It is hard for the faculty to sometimes wrap head around but Chicago and Cal Tech are VERY different than Cal. Arguable so too the Ivies - which because they are smaller offer the kind of "deep" connections with undergrads and alumni that just are not possible when you are talking 30K plus undergrads. Indeed I might argue that D1 athletics are one of just a handful of activites that create that kind of connection and UCSD and UCI have long suffered on the alumni engagement front because there just is not an emotional connection created from attending 400+ lecture classes and sterile 1960 era dorms.
From personal experience, I can tell you that the Ivies are VERY different from Cal. At frosh orientation at the Ivy I attended, the first table I was directed to was the alumnus/giving table. There I was TOLD that I would be contributing generously to the school upon grad, if not before. That message was impressed upon me at every convocation, univ meeting that I attended. In return, I was assured that I would be hired into a VERY lucrative position of my choosing (if I so chose), from where the expectation to give would be enforced.
Example. I took an econ course and in the final exam there was a question that asked how you would solve a problem. The solution was reached by the application of Calculus. I knew Calculus; I saw that there was enough information in the question to arrive at the solution through my use of calculus. I used calculus and arrived at the correct solution. The prof gave me a zero on that question. I went to see him about it and he said that the question was to explain how you would go about solving the problem; not to actually solve it. By doing what I did, I gave myself an unfair advantage over the other students. The question was only to explain HOW it was to be done, not to actually solve it. I complained to the Department Head. He admitted that I had solved the problem correctly, but that he wasn't going to oppose his colleague. THEN HE SAID, that The Harvard Business School gave him one automatic entry per year and that, if I kept my mouth shut and accepted the grade, he would see to it that I would have it. I went to the Dean who refused to intervene. I left the next day. This is the Ivy way and we are the opposite of that. We should want no part of that world, but it exists and flourishes within it. They have extraordinary alumni support - worlds better than ours.
I don't think that we want any part of a system that thrives on that kind of value. And, that's where the Ivy way would lead us.
