ColoradoBear said:
wifeisafurd said:
ColoradoBear said:
wifeisafurd said:
For those that wondered if any outside teams would want to be members of a "new" Pac conference, the answer is hell no. Who would want to get their programs involved in this legal quagmire. Just a few of the issue mentioned were executive severance, lack of transparency with Comcast obligations (this also comes with several. lawsuits from former Pac 12 executives due to misconduct by Commish Larry), the desire of the remaining members to liquidate the Pac and receive distributions (this also anticipates a demand for distribution of prior season distributions that are being held for emergencies that are no longer present) and well there is the whole matter of who has what voting rights.
Autonomous 5 conference status, $40-50 million in NCAA hoops distributions coming, and CFB playoff money in 24 and 25 that would not available if the conference dissolved and OSU and WSU went to the MWC. Probably worth exploring.
Money coming in would outweigh by many, many times the potential expenditures/liabilities like Kliavkoff remaong contact value or wrongful termination suits.
I do agree the p12 network assets are likely pennies on the dollar. There aren't going to be a lot assets to divy up, so it seems pretty dirty for the schools who are leaving to favor dissolving the conference, especially since there is no exit penalty.
But I believe Wilner wrote that the NCAA shares would revert to the teams that earned them if the conference dissolves, so there would be incentive for schools like UCLA and Arizona to want to dissolve the conference.
I also saw it mentioned somewhere that the Colonial Conference has banned departing schools from conference title events a.coiple fo times (mostly out of spite). Would be insane to see OSU and WSU get control of the board alone and ban the other 10 schools from from the football CCG. Couldn't do that for basketball as the TV deals pay $$$ for the tourney.
I'd think that the departing 10 and OSU/WSU could come to an agreement about voting rights and not screwing each other over, but p12 execs are the issue here.
I don't think most people see it that way.
First, your comment about the "the p12 network assets are likely pennies on the dollar. There aren't going to be a lot assets to divy up, so it seems pretty dirty for the schools who are leaving to favor dissolving the conference, especially since there is no exit penalty" is spot on.
Second, the $40 to $50 million in basketball under the Conference bylaws that gets distributed out to all participating members, and that means 10/12 is gone to members leaving.
Third, the payable to Comcast is $55 to 60 million depending on who you talk to, and it is clear from the complaint, that WSU and OSU don't thing they are being told the full story.. Comcast will offset around $48 milllon in anticipated revenue, which is $48 million in expenses that needs to be paid from another source.
Fourth, the leaving teams are trying to lay claim to the "emergency funds" probably is around $40 million. This is money that would have been distributed in prior years, so you can see where the departing teams think they are entitled.
Fifth, the lawsuits with Larry trying to force there the other execs to commit fraud with Comcast (assuming the suits ever gets to court rather than a BK claim), could have absurdly large punitive damages given Scott's conduct. I'm not in a position to assess the usual sex harrassment claims that come out when the business entity goes tits-up like this.
Sixth, how much are the severance packagers, which seems to be what the instant argument is over? GK gets $7.6 if he is terminated on Dec. 31 and you can add some proration if it is earlier. I'm assuming there is the argument he should be fired for cause, but those member CEOs (including the Presidents at OSU and WSU) were ratifying his conduct to wait on the media contracts. There probably is 4 or 5 other guys/gals you have to keep on and promise severance as long as you keep the lights on and that probably means an extra $1 million a piece. The Pac 12 network talent and execs will get severance, but I don't know how much, and it keeps going on and on.
This is all ending up in bankruptcy court to be picked over by the lawyers.
The Pac-12 will still have $400 million in revenue coming in this year. More than enough to cover all liabilities. Way more.
I'd think that if the conference were to continue, OSU and WSU would want to get a much better accounting (and they think GK is resisting), and deduct liabilities from the 12 team payouts from FOX/ESPN rights. This could include pushing for lawsuit settlements to get a number on those liabilities. We are talking max tens of millions, versus the pot of hundreds of millions. Plus paying out severance and legal liabilities seems like a perfect use for the emergency fund.
For the NCAA tournament payouts, those are spread over 6 years for each tournament. So there would be $40 million in future payments (after june 30th, 2024) up in dispute. Departing teams do not get a cut after they leave.
I did read the p12 bylaws and they don't seem well written when it comes to departing members and voting/board membership. Mostly because it leaves the question of what happen in the interim between agreeing to leave to a new conference and actually leaving. There is language about losing a seat after giving notice to leave, but I didn't see anything about a notice actually being required to leave - and teams are leaving on the day after the media contract expires. Other conferences have much more specific contracts that include exit penalties in ADDITION to the GOR's and that spell out the exit process a lot more clearly... and are a lot more onerous to the departing schools.
So I am curious what a judge enforces here.
Well an excellent question. Basically, some state judge in a lightly populated count in northeast Washington has granted a TRO saying no Pac board meetings until he examines the matter further, absent unanimous consent.
This is rife with all sorts of problems. Only two teams have provided withdrawal notices prior to August 1, 2024: USC and UCLA..
The bylaws read as follows:
Section 3: No member shall deliver a notice of withdrawal to the Conference in the period beginning on July 24, 2011, and ending on August 1, 2024; provided, that if any member does deliver a notice of withdrawal prior to August 1, 2024, in violation of this chapter, the Conference shall be entitled to an injunction and other equitable relief to prevent such breach, and if a court of competent jurisdiction shall deny the Conference such injunctive relief, the Conference shall be entitled to retain all the media and sponsorship rights in the multi-player video distribution (MPVD) and telecommunications/wireless categories of the member purporting to withdraw through
August 1, 2024, even if the member is then a member of another conference or an independent school for some or all intercollegiate sports competitions. Additionally, if a member delivers notice of withdrawal in violation of this chapter, the member's representative to the CEO Group shall automatically cease to be a member of the
CEO Group and shall cease to have the right to vote on any matter before the CEO Group.
This reads that the PAC can sue to stop universities from leaving and if no injunction is provided, they at least receive the media right revenue through 2024. That's a fairly large penalty that UCLA and SC are going to pay. Not sure how UCLA is going to pay that and certainly don't see how other members not named SC could pay it either, but the key is they did not provide notice, which means most of WSU's and OSU's arguments are BS (they want the court to conclude that the other schools intended to leave by August 1, which in the case of all remains schools not named Colorado is BS. There also is BS logic by OSU and WSU being applied to the idea they are the only two teams that only those two schools can choose what the Pac does with new members. Back to the bylaws:
Section 2. New Members.
Membership shall be limited to institutions of higher education holding Division I membership in the NCAA. Applicants shall provide such information as may be deemed necessary and appropriate by the Commissioner. New members may only be admitted to the Conference by three-fourths vote of the entire CEO Group.
With 10 members remaining, that would require 8 votes for inclusion.
But it gets worse: Under the bylaws, the 12-member conference can't operate with only Washington State and Oregon State eligible to vote; conference bylaws refer to a quorum of actual members requiring at least a majority (specifically stating seven schools). This could not be more poorly drafted.
So no meeting could be called by WSU and OSU without adding additional members to reach a quorum of 7 teams, and without notices of withdrawal from the other teams, there can't be any additional teams added. Any other court not in an obscure county in Washington also wold recognize the departing members also have a credible stake in the possibility of the conference dissolving, where assets would be distributed and potential liabilities, including those involving employees and insurance policies, requiring an orderly winding down of operations, so this is far from over. But the Washington Judge has said there won't be board meetings until there is further deliberation by the court, so the court probably is in a bind, and hoping that all the Pac teams could work something with unanimous consent, to bail the judge out of the bind he has put himself in.
I'm curious why a Judge in a remote Washington county thinks he has venue to control the Pac conference, or his ability to enforce the TRO once a Judge in another state, probably in LA County, grants an opposing order.
