Let's face it, there was no way that Cal was going to get a college football stadium built with a capacity of more than 20,000 in any other location than the one where Memorial Stadium has been located since 1923. Maybe you could build a 20,000-seat stadium at the Edwards Stadium location, but you'd have been dealing with Downtown Berkeley NIMBY's, EIR after EIR, not to mention the National Register of Historic Places considerations, whatever those may entail. I think there's some trees around the west side of Edwards Stadium too, so Dumpster Doofus and Zachary Running Jackal would have been a problem down there too.

But setting aside the logistics and legal issues of a stadium build in Berkeley, California, am I hearing correctly that some Cal graduates would have preferred that the home of the Golden Bears be moved from what is arguably one of the most scenic locations in all of athletics? I know, I know, it's a Death March to get to the stadium on game day, there's virtually no parking nearby for tailgating, and the stadium doesn't have all the creature comforts of newer stadiums like the Erector-set like sterile monstrosity down in Santa Clara. And still I say that the old bowl tucked into Strawberry Canyon is one of my favorite places of all time.

Memorial Stadium is not the problem. Memorial's seating capacity is not the problem. Heck, even Memorial's sunshine pumping financing plan is not the problem. Cal's institutional commitment to competing in major college football is the problem, and it's as true now as it was in 1964, 1977, 1989, etc. If you win, the true believers will come.

Even the best and most committed football programs don't have stadiums as large as Memorial outside of SEC and B1G country. Berkeley isn't going to be Tuscaloosa or Austin and is never going to be. Furthermore, more and more people prefer to watch games at home than in person. A 45,000 seater would probably do us just fine.

eastbayyoungbear said:

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Even the best and most committed football programs don't have stadiums as large as Memorial outside of SEC and B1G country. Berkeley isn't going to be Tuscaloosa or Austin and is never going to be. Furthermore, more and more people prefer to watch games at home than in person. A 45,000 seater would probably do us just fine.

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I believe what you are advocating for is 4 more tarps!

bearsandgiants said:

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eastbayyoungbear said:

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Even the best and most committed football programs don't have stadiums as large as Memorial outside of SEC and B1G country. Berkeley isn't going to be Tuscaloosa or Austin and is never going to be. Furthermore, more and more people prefer to watch games at home than in person. A 45,000 seater would probably do us just fine.

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I believe what you are advocating for is 4 more tarps!

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If proper seats, with proper legroom, were to be added throughout Memorial, we'd be looking at 43,000 to 46,000 max.

chazzed said:

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72CalBear is moving on to Fresno State, which is his choice, but why post anti-Cal propaganda on a Cal message board?

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Yeah, well. Go Bulldogs too!

Need bathrooms on the east side.

oski003 said:

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Need bathrooms on the east side.

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Part of the plan was to extend the East side partially over the roadway as a way to have real bathrooms and some decent vendor spots. I spent countless hours wandering around during construction, wearing my son's hard hat from his engineering firm which did small odd jobs on campus. My lanyard was one of my wife's high school teacher I'd's. I took several thousand photos, and met quite a number of big wigs. I was there so often, everyone just thought I belonged there. I loved the project much more than the games.

Fear the longhairs.

HearstMining said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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eastbayyoungbear said:

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This is probably beating a dead horse already, but renovating Memorial instead of downsizing for a smaller stadium (preferably where Edwards is) was probably the wrong move.

---

In hindsight of course.

We thought new CMS with Tedford ball would bring in recruiting classes like we almost had before Tosh left.

But yah, turns out:

1) we have massive debt from the remodel
2) we usually are not close to filling up CMS for most games (I'd say average is in the 30s since new CMS opened)
3) It didn't make the performance any better --- in fact our best recent teams were the early Tedford teams before the new CMS

---

Per Wikipedia, here are the attendance figures (I assume tickets sold, not butts in the seats, which is what we all notice) since the new CMS (Tedford's last year). Maybe season ticket sales were constant through the Dykes years but buyers gradually quit attending and finally many dropped their season tickets after 2016. In any case, Wilcox hasn't been able to win many fans back. I have friends who dropped their tickets this season after ~30 years.

2012: ~60k
2013: ~49k
2014: ~49k
2015: ~49k
2016: ~47k
2017: ~36.5k
2018: ~43k
2019: ~42.4k
2022: ~38.5k

If you look back further, recent attendance isn't too different from the 1960s-early 1970s. Of course, we weren't paying the HC millions of $$.

---

Wow attendance kind of held up during the Dykes years. There were some exciting offenses, and Texas and Ohio State too (Furd was rolling too so Big Game would be packed: still can't believe Furd went to the Rose Bowl 3 out of 4 years ugh).

KoreAmBear said:

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HearstMining said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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eastbayyoungbear said:

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This is probably beating a dead horse already, but renovating Memorial instead of downsizing for a smaller stadium (preferably where Edwards is) was probably the wrong move.

---

In hindsight of course.

We thought new CMS with Tedford ball would bring in recruiting classes like we almost had before Tosh left.

But yah, turns out:

1) we have massive debt from the remodel
2) we usually are not close to filling up CMS for most games (I'd say average is in the 30s since new CMS opened)
3) It didn't make the performance any better --- in fact our best recent teams were the early Tedford teams before the new CMS

---

Per Wikipedia, here are the attendance figures (I assume tickets sold, not butts in the seats, which is what we all notice) since the new CMS (Tedford's last year). Maybe season ticket sales were constant through the Dykes years but buyers gradually quit attending and finally many dropped their season tickets after 2016. In any case, Wilcox hasn't been able to win many fans back. I have friends who dropped their tickets this season after ~30 years.

2012: ~60k
2013: ~49k
2014: ~49k
2015: ~49k
2016: ~47k
2017: ~36.5k
2018: ~43k
2019: ~42.4k
2022: ~38.5k

If you look back further, recent attendance isn't too different from the 1960s-early 1970s. Of course, we weren't paying the HC millions of $$.

---

Wow attendance kind of held up during the Dykes years. There were some exciting offenses, and Texas and Ohio State too (Furd was rolling too so Big Game would be packed: still can't believe Furd went to the Rose Bowl 3 out of 4 years ugh).

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I blame Buh.

72CalBear said:

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chazzed said:

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72CalBear is moving on to Fresno State, which is his choice, but why post anti-Cal propaganda on a Cal message board?

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Yeah, well. Go Bulldogs too!

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72, so r u gonna be at the game saturday or not?

this really isn't a complicated question, right?

Y'all just need to kill all the nimbys and build high density walkable neighborhoods so that locals arent being strangled by 3k a month rents.

Manhattanize the bay area.

oski003 said:

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Need bathrooms on the east side.

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I remember my exchange with a Tennessee fan when they visited Memorial

"It's a beautiful site but even Alabama has indoor plumbing."

If you search for "Golden Bears Football" on Wikipedia, it will bring up a page for each year, generally with rosters, attendance, stats, etc. It goes at least as far back as the 1950s and shows that mediocre attendance is not a recent phenomenon. Unless Cal has a great team, crowds (except for Stanfurd and possibly USC/UCLA) have rarely been large. Anybody who thinks that's going to change solely due to the arrival of ACC opponents is dreaming.

Shocky1 said:

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72, so r u gonna be part of the solution & represent at memorial stadium this sat nite against them oregon state beavers?

this is a simple yes or no question

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I will be there with Two of my adult children and my two sisters and brother in law.
Total of SIX. We will REPRESENT

It's a matter of perspective. The crowd at Cal would make a great MWC turn out!

Go Bears!

Shocky1 said:

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72CalBear said:

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chazzed said:

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72CalBear is moving on to Fresno State, which is his choice, but why post anti-Cal propaganda on a Cal message board?

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Yeah, well. Go Bulldogs too!

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72, so r u gonna be at the game saturday or not?

this really isn't a complicated question, right?

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Careful....careful Shocky1 you are starting to sound like you are "whiny azz non funny complaining from further afar."

but here's the thing blueblood, shocky is gonna be at the game & visit pregame with his cousin sidney who is a ferocious cal bear fan despite the fact she did not attend berkeley, gonna be at the epicenter of the universe saturday nite at 7:00 pm & NOT further afar

how about u?...my apologies in asking this question if ur health does not allow u to travel

Not trying to shy away from bad attendance because 35kish out of 64k is not good but…
Why are they using a photo of section P/O which is dedicated and sold to the visiting team?
The attendance did not look as bad as the picture if you zoom out and look at more than just the asu reserved sections

CNHTH said:

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Not trying to shy away from bad attendance because 35kish out of 64k is not good but…
Why are they using a photo of section P/O which is dedicated and sold to the visiting team?
The attendance did not look as bad as the picture if you zoom out and look at more than just the asu reserved sections

---

1. The photo gets taken by someone who is a visitor to the stadium (one of those accounts that likes touring all the college stadiums), so they don't know what the visitor's section is.

2. Gets picked up and shared by an Oregon State partisan who is trying to make an argument about why other schools didn't deserve conference invites over them.

3. The OSU tweet gets picked up and built into a clickbait "article" on some site or blog.

No one does any research or double-checking, it just goes through the cycle. It's dumb, but it's the media environment right now.

KoreAmBear said:

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HearstMining said:

---

KoreAmBear said:

---

eastbayyoungbear said:

---

This is probably beating a dead horse already, but renovating Memorial instead of downsizing for a smaller stadium (preferably where Edwards is) was probably the wrong move.

---

In hindsight of course.

We thought new CMS with Tedford ball would bring in recruiting classes like we almost had before Tosh left.

But yah, turns out:

1) we have massive debt from the remodel
2) we usually are not close to filling up CMS for most games (I'd say average is in the 30s since new CMS opened)
3) It didn't make the performance any better --- in fact our best recent teams were the early Tedford teams before the new CMS

---

Per Wikipedia, here are the attendance figures (I assume tickets sold, not butts in the seats, which is what we all notice) since the new CMS (Tedford's last year). Maybe season ticket sales were constant through the Dykes years but buyers gradually quit attending and finally many dropped their season tickets after 2016. In any case, Wilcox hasn't been able to win many fans back. I have friends who dropped their tickets this season after ~30 years.

2012: ~60k
2013: ~49k
2014: ~49k
2015: ~49k
2016: ~47k
2017: ~36.5k
2018: ~43k
2019: ~42.4k
2022: ~38.5k

If you look back further, recent attendance isn't too different from the 1960s-early 1970s. Of course, we weren't paying the HC millions of $$.

---

Wow attendance kind of held up during the Dykes years. There were some exciting offenses, and Texas and Ohio State too (Furd was rolling too so Big Game would be packed: still can't believe Furd went to the Rose Bowl 3 out of 4 years ugh).

---

Uniquely for the Bay Area there's also a clear impact that COVID had on behavior and attendance.Whether it was a matter of people taking longer to get used to public events like this or losing alumni, fans who might've moved, or just attendees who had their routine disrupted and never picked it back up. Or in the case of students having classes of Freshmen that never got that initial exposure to the team.

StillNoStanfurdium said:

---

KoreAmBear said:

---

HearstMining said:

---

KoreAmBear said:

---

eastbayyoungbear said:

---

This is probably beating a dead horse already, but renovating Memorial instead of downsizing for a smaller stadium (preferably where Edwards is) was probably the wrong move.

---

In hindsight of course.

We thought new CMS with Tedford ball would bring in recruiting classes like we almost had before Tosh left.

But yah, turns out:

1) we have massive debt from the remodel
2) we usually are not close to filling up CMS for most games (I'd say average is in the 30s since new CMS opened)
3) It didn't make the performance any better --- in fact our best recent teams were the early Tedford teams before the new CMS

---

Per Wikipedia, here are the attendance figures (I assume tickets sold, not butts in the seats, which is what we all notice) since the new CMS (Tedford's last year). Maybe season ticket sales were constant through the Dykes years but buyers gradually quit attending and finally many dropped their season tickets after 2016. In any case, Wilcox hasn't been able to win many fans back. I have friends who dropped their tickets this season after ~30 years.

2012: ~60k
2013: ~49k
2014: ~49k
2015: ~49k
2016: ~47k
2017: ~36.5k
2018: ~43k
2019: ~42.4k
2022: ~38.5k

If you look back further, recent attendance isn't too different from the 1960s-early 1970s. Of course, we weren't paying the HC millions of $$.

---

Wow attendance kind of held up during the Dykes years. There were some exciting offenses, and Texas and Ohio State too (Furd was rolling too so Big Game would be packed: still can't believe Furd went to the Rose Bowl 3 out of 4 years ugh).

---

Uniquely for the Bay Area there's also a clear impact that COVID had on behavior and attendance.Whether it was a matter of people taking longer to get used to public events like this or losing alumni, fans who might've moved, or just attendees who had their routine disrupted and never picked it back up. Or in the case of students having classes of Freshmen that never got that initial exposure to the team.

---

Yeah, the Giants have also had a clear drop in attendance post-COVID, though that one is better explained by having far fewer office workers downtown.

sycasey said:

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CNHTH said:

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Not trying to shy away from bad attendance because 35kish out of 64k is not good but…
Why are they using a photo of section P/O which is dedicated and sold to the visiting team?
The attendance did not look as bad as the picture if you zoom out and look at more than just the asu reserved sections

---

1. The photo gets taken by someone who is a visitor to the stadium (one of those accounts that likes touring all the college stadiums), so they don't know what the visitor's section is.

2. Gets picked up and shared by an Oregon State partisan who is trying to make an argument about why other schools didn't deserve conference invites over them.

3. The OSU tweet gets picked up and built into a clickbait "article" on some site or blog.

No one does any research or double-checking, it just goes through the cycle. It's dumb, but it's the media environment right now.

---

Oregon state Twitter has been super salty since calford's acceptance into the ACC.

I mean, I get it? But like, don't take your anger out on us. Of the people who screwed you guys, we are by far the worst offender

ducky23 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

CNHTH said:

---

Not trying to shy away from bad attendance because 35kish out of 64k is not good but…
Why are they using a photo of section P/O which is dedicated and sold to the visiting team?
The attendance did not look as bad as the picture if you zoom out and look at more than just the asu reserved sections

---

1. The photo gets taken by someone who is a visitor to the stadium (one of those accounts that likes touring all the college stadiums), so they don't know what the visitor's section is.

2. Gets picked up and shared by an Oregon State partisan who is trying to make an argument about why other schools didn't deserve conference invites over them.

3. The OSU tweet gets picked up and built into a clickbait "article" on some site or blog.

No one does any research or double-checking, it just goes through the cycle. It's dumb, but it's the media environment right now.

---

Oregon state Twitter has been super salty since calford's acceptance into the ACC.

I mean, I get it? But like, don't take your anger out on us. Of the people who screwed you guys, we are by far the worst offender

---

Seriously, do we think that when it was down to the Pac-4 if Oregon State & Wazzu got Big-12 invites at full or reasonable partial shares that they wouldn't jump ship? Not to mention me thinking that they do a good job selling out their small stadium but wondering how well they'd do filling a stadium of 60,000?

ducky23 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

CNHTH said:

---

Not trying to shy away from bad attendance because 35kish out of 64k is not good but…
Why are they using a photo of section P/O which is dedicated and sold to the visiting team?
The attendance did not look as bad as the picture if you zoom out and look at more than just the asu reserved sections

---

1. The photo gets taken by someone who is a visitor to the stadium (one of those accounts that likes touring all the college stadiums), so they don't know what the visitor's section is.

2. Gets picked up and shared by an Oregon State partisan who is trying to make an argument about why other schools didn't deserve conference invites over them.

3. The OSU tweet gets picked up and built into a clickbait "article" on some site or blog.

No one does any research or double-checking, it just goes through the cycle. It's dumb, but it's the media environment right now.

---

Oregon state Twitter has been super salty since calford's acceptance into the ACC.

I mean, I get it? But like, don't take your anger out on us. Of the people who screwed you guys, we are by far the worst offender

---

Yeah, I'm not gonna be mad at OSU fans for being mad. Totally get that they are lashing out.

But Cal and Stanford are the last of the Pac-12 schools they should be attacking.

Did you take those photos?

Shocky1 said:

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72, so r u gonna be part of the solution & represent at memorial stadium this sat nite against them oregon state beavers?

this is a simple yes or no question

---

No. The solution is to have a respectable, albeit winning football program like, ahem, the Bulldogs.

understood 72, do u think it would help if cal could accept 2.4 gpa high school talent like fresno state?

luv jt too & greatly miss his extensive use of the pitchout to the multiple bears nfl running backs

if at & spav along with wilcox don't figure this **** out re: how to get jaydn ott in space, his odds of returning in 2024 are gonna be significantly lower

Shocky1 said:

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understood 72, do u think it would help if cal could accept 2.4 gpa high school talent like fresno state?

luv jt too & greatly miss his extensive use of the pitchout to the multiple bears nfl running backs

if at & spav along with wilcox don't figure this **** out re: how to get jaydn ott in space, his odds of returning in 2024 are gonna be significantly lower

---

Shocky1 you are "starting to sound like you are "whiny or sour grape azz non funny complaining from further afar" This is repeated wherever the hell you are.....anyway, I may have attended more games than you and 'ol sidney have attended put together......

chazzed said:

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Did you take those photos?

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No, they're linked from various media outlets and I assume taken by professional photographers.

bb, my cousin sidney is around 19 years old or something so u may be rite

plz note that whenever the monster criticizes he always got a solution, that's the difference between constructive criticism & whiny azz complaining, got it?

knowlton is killing cal athletics, solution: replace him with andrew mcgraw

jaydn ott is not getting the ball in open space, solution: give him pitchouts on the edge

cal's offensive line has been really bad during the wilcox era, solution: cal's monster offensive line

WalterSobchak said:

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chazzed said:

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Did you take those photos?

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No, they're linked from various media outlets and I assume taken by professional photographers.

---

Got it. They are very striking photos, and they would have been even better with our gold pants.

Oregon State preps for a "dead crowd" at Memorial Stadium by turning off the music during practice this week.https://t.co/OVdbtaeruD

— Nick Daschel (@nickdaschel) October 4, 2023

StillNoStanfurdium said:

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ducky23 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

CNHTH said:

---

Not trying to shy away from bad attendance because 35kish out of 64k is not good but…
Why are they using a photo of section P/O which is dedicated and sold to the visiting team?
The attendance did not look as bad as the picture if you zoom out and look at more than just the asu reserved sections

---

1. The photo gets taken by someone who is a visitor to the stadium (one of those accounts that likes touring all the college stadiums), so they don't know what the visitor's section is.

2. Gets picked up and shared by an Oregon State partisan who is trying to make an argument about why other schools didn't deserve conference invites over them.

3. The OSU tweet gets picked up and built into a clickbait "article" on some site or blog.

No one does any research or double-checking, it just goes through the cycle. It's dumb, but it's the media environment right now.

---

Oregon state Twitter has been super salty since calford's acceptance into the ACC.

I mean, I get it? But like, don't take your anger out on us. Of the people who screwed you guys, we are by far the worst offender

---

Seriously, do we think that when it was down to the Pac-4 if Oregon State & Wazzu got Big-12 invites at full or reasonable partial shares that they wouldn't jump ship? Not to mention me thinking that they do a good job selling out their small stadium but wondering how well they'd do filling a stadium of 60,000?

---

They absolutely would have. No question about it.

Picture got taken of the away side. Ok. Not many people traveled. But the glaring part of that photo isn't the away end. Its the tarped section of the endzone. Do other P5 teams do that? Besides UCLA and the cavernous Rose Bowl? Our stadium doesn't have a capacity of 63,000 anymore. Its more like 55k with the tarps on. And we are still, what, 20k under that "capacity"? USC played their longtime rival Stanford at the Coli 2 weeks ago and they got 67,000. That's what - 10-15k under capacity? And theyre top 10.

Unless you're in Ohio, Michigan, Alabamy, Georgia or the Carolinas, you're not selling out. I'd be thankful to have a winning program that would bring 45,000 to our stadium. Or at least enough to take the tarps off.

Jeezus this is like the Zapruder movie

Can you imagine being a 75-year old man who calls himself "the monster"? What a ****ing tool.