calumnus said:

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philly1121 said:

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StillNoStanfurdium said:

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philly1121 said:

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I did not know that. Thank you for the knowledge.

As far as Washington, he's had 4 seasons to turn it around. His last two seasons at Carolina were losing records. I appreciate all he's done to rep Cal and certainly he seems like a nice guy. I'm just not high on him as a head coach.

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Hypothetically say you had a chance to hire a coach that was just previously a NFL HC for 2 seasons with a record of 9-7, then 6-10. Previously had stints in the NFL as position coach or coordinator about 5 years. Plenty of college experience with 32 years of total coaching experience with NCAA & NFL combined. But kind of a middling recent NFL performance. Do you get excited about hiring that guy?

That guy would be Nick Saban before getting hired at Alabama. Now I'm not saying that Saban's NFL record is the same as Rivera's record or recent performances. But is it that far off? How well someone does in the NFL doesn't always translate to college success. And granted, Saban has had years, and years of college experience compared to Rivera who would be trying it for the first time but I just want to say that recent NFL record may not tell the whole story.

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The difference is that Nick Saban won at Michigan State. He was 34-24 there. That led to his stint at LSU. He won there. 48-16. Finished #1 in 2003. Then he went to the Dolphins. Winning record his first year; 6-10 his second. Then went to Alabama. I don't really think Ron Rivera has that body of work or success. Again, seems like a great guy. Great ambassador for the school. I wouldn't take a chance. My two cents.

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To be clear, you "wouldn't take a chance" on Rivera meaning if Rivera offered to come here for essentially free, you would turn him down and just stay with Wilcox who is 29-43 against FBS competition and has had only 1 winning season against FBS competition out of 7 and no winning seasons in conference?

Because the reason Rivera is being floated is that we cannot afford to fire Wilcox and take a chance on anyone who would not essentially work here for free and Rivera is the only established coach that might think about doing that.

So if the only choices are Wilcox or Rivera you would not be willing to take a chance on door number 2? You'd stand pat with Wilcox (plus Sirmon and Bloesch)?

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If Rivera came here on a free, of course it would be foolish not to take him. However, that isn't going to happen. And its not going to happen before June of next year - at the earliest. So we are looking at a new chancellor making the decision on a coach and an AD. Maybe. So we are looking at at least two more years before a move is made. Or, some donor(s) must step up and pay out his contract.

All I'm asking is, is there no one else out there? Are all the eggs being put into Rivera's basket? If so, then I feel that would be a mistake.

philly1121 said:

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calumnus said:

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philly1121 said:

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StillNoStanfurdium said:

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philly1121 said:

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I did not know that. Thank you for the knowledge.

As far as Washington, he's had 4 seasons to turn it around. His last two seasons at Carolina were losing records. I appreciate all he's done to rep Cal and certainly he seems like a nice guy. I'm just not high on him as a head coach.

---

Hypothetically say you had a chance to hire a coach that was just previously a NFL HC for 2 seasons with a record of 9-7, then 6-10. Previously had stints in the NFL as position coach or coordinator about 5 years. Plenty of college experience with 32 years of total coaching experience with NCAA & NFL combined. But kind of a middling recent NFL performance. Do you get excited about hiring that guy?

That guy would be Nick Saban before getting hired at Alabama. Now I'm not saying that Saban's NFL record is the same as Rivera's record or recent performances. But is it that far off? How well someone does in the NFL doesn't always translate to college success. And granted, Saban has had years, and years of college experience compared to Rivera who would be trying it for the first time but I just want to say that recent NFL record may not tell the whole story.

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The difference is that Nick Saban won at Michigan State. He was 34-24 there. That led to his stint at LSU. He won there. 48-16. Finished #1 in 2003. Then he went to the Dolphins. Winning record his first year; 6-10 his second. Then went to Alabama. I don't really think Ron Rivera has that body of work or success. Again, seems like a great guy. Great ambassador for the school. I wouldn't take a chance. My two cents.

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To be clear, you "wouldn't take a chance" on Rivera meaning if Rivera offered to come here for essentially free, you would turn him down and just stay with Wilcox who is 29-43 against FBS competition and has had only 1 winning season against FBS competition out of 7 and no winning seasons in conference?

Because the reason Rivera is being floated is that we cannot afford to fire Wilcox and take a chance on anyone who would not essentially work here for free and Rivera is the only established coach that might think about doing that.

So if the only choices are Wilcox or Rivera you would not be willing to take a chance on door number 2? You'd stand pat with Wilcox (plus Sirmon and Bloesch)?

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If Rivera came here on a free, of course it would be foolish not to take him. However, that isn't going to happen. And its not going to happen before June of next year - at the earliest. So we are looking at a new chancellor making the decision on a coach and an AD. Maybe. So we are looking at at least two more years before a move is made. Or, some donor(s) must step up and pay out his contract.

All I'm asking is, is there no one else out there? Are all the eggs being put into Rivera's basket? If so, then I feel that would be a mistake.

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There is no basket at the present time....there is no Head Coaching movement that's going to happen for Cal unless the next turn of the coaching carousel someone involves interest in Wilcox....my own personal prediction is that a college coach will end up as a NFL coach, and that will create at least one small wave.

philly1121 said:

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calumnus said:

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philly1121 said:

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StillNoStanfurdium said:

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philly1121 said:

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I did not know that. Thank you for the knowledge.

As far as Washington, he's had 4 seasons to turn it around. His last two seasons at Carolina were losing records. I appreciate all he's done to rep Cal and certainly he seems like a nice guy. I'm just not high on him as a head coach.

---

Hypothetically say you had a chance to hire a coach that was just previously a NFL HC for 2 seasons with a record of 9-7, then 6-10. Previously had stints in the NFL as position coach or coordinator about 5 years. Plenty of college experience with 32 years of total coaching experience with NCAA & NFL combined. But kind of a middling recent NFL performance. Do you get excited about hiring that guy?

That guy would be Nick Saban before getting hired at Alabama. Now I'm not saying that Saban's NFL record is the same as Rivera's record or recent performances. But is it that far off? How well someone does in the NFL doesn't always translate to college success. And granted, Saban has had years, and years of college experience compared to Rivera who would be trying it for the first time but I just want to say that recent NFL record may not tell the whole story.

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The difference is that Nick Saban won at Michigan State. He was 34-24 there. That led to his stint at LSU. He won there. 48-16. Finished #1 in 2003. Then he went to the Dolphins. Winning record his first year; 6-10 his second. Then went to Alabama. I don't really think Ron Rivera has that body of work or success. Again, seems like a great guy. Great ambassador for the school. I wouldn't take a chance. My two cents.

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To be clear, you "wouldn't take a chance" on Rivera meaning if Rivera offered to come here for essentially free, you would turn him down and just stay with Wilcox who is 29-43 against FBS competition and has had only 1 winning season against FBS competition out of 7 and no winning seasons in conference?

Because the reason Rivera is being floated is that we cannot afford to fire Wilcox and take a chance on anyone who would not essentially work here for free and Rivera is the only established coach that might think about doing that.

So if the only choices are Wilcox or Rivera you would not be willing to take a chance on door number 2? You'd stand pat with Wilcox (plus Sirmon and Bloesch)?

---

If Rivera came here on a free, of course it would be foolish not to take him. However, that isn't going to happen. And its not going to happen before June of next year - at the earliest. So we are looking at a new chancellor making the decision on a coach and an AD. Maybe. So we are looking at at least two more years before a move is made. Or, some donor(s) must step up and pay out his contract.

All I'm asking is, is there no one else out there? Are all the eggs being put into Rivera's basket? If so, then I feel that would be a mistake.

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However unlikely it is that Rivera comes to Cal to work for $1 million or less, it is far less likely that Cal comes up with the $20 million we would currently need to fire Wilcox and hire another coach anywhere near his $5 million a year salary. We already have a huge deficit and are facing a catastrophic budget crisis next year with our reduced earnings in the ACC.

Three years from now, after the 2026 season, Wilcox's buyout will be down to $5 million and we will need to extend or fire him. I agree that at that point we should do a search far beyond Ron Rivera. A young offensive genius would be great. There will be names no one even knows about today.

However, right now. The only suggested immediate alternative to two or three more years of Wilcox, is <possibly> Rivera.

Ron ranked as the second worst head coach

https://nflpa.com/nfl-player-team-report-cards-2024

01Bear said:

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IIRC, there was a forum member and Cal alumna who began a career in athletics administration at sine other school many years back. Does anyone remember her name? I wonder if she would be a good hire as Cal's next AD.

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It might be a bad sign for a future AD candidate that no one remembers her name...

BearoutEast67 said:

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01Bear said:

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IIRC, there was a forum member and Cal alumna who began a career in athletics administration at sine other school many years back. Does anyone remember her name? I wonder if she would be a good hire as Cal's next AD.

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It might be a bad sign for a future AD candidate that no one remembers her name...

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LOL! True!

But in fairness, she was on the forum about a decade ago. I think she stopped participating shortly after she was hired by another university.

01Bear said:

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BearoutEast67 said:

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01Bear said:

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IIRC, there was a forum member and Cal alumna who began a career in athletics administration at sine other school many years back. Does anyone remember her name? I wonder if she would be a good hire as Cal's next AD.

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It might be a bad sign for a future AD candidate that no one remembers her name...

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LOL! True!

But in fairness, she was on the forum about a decade ago. I think she stopped participating shortly after she was hired by another university.

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Plus probably posted under an anonymous generic Cal username

calumnus said:

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01Bear said:

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BearoutEast67 said:

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01Bear said:

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IIRC, there was a forum member and Cal alumna who began a career in athletics administration at sine other school many years back. Does anyone remember her name? I wonder if she would be a good hire as Cal's next AD.

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It might be a bad sign for a future AD candidate that no one remembers her name...

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LOL! True!

But in fairness, she was on the forum about a decade ago. I think she stopped participating shortly after she was hired by another university.

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Plus probably posted under an anonymous generic Cal username

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Yup!

maxer said:

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Bearly Clad said:

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That's fair but there's also been lots of coaches to make the leap to AD, recently there's been guys like Barry Alvarez, Chris Del Conte, Jeff Long, Doug Dickey, and lots more. There's a ton of examples but I was just going off the top of my head, I feel like a very high percentage of ADs were a coach at one point in their career.

There's lots of financial stuff that they may not be incredibly knowledgeable about initially but there's assistant ADs and support staff to advise them on that. It's like how most CEOs don't do the accounting work themselves they have to lead and take care of the big picture. I think Ron would be great at absorbing the information and making good decisions for the future of football and other programs

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You may be right - i'd just love to hire someone who is the best at being an AD, and not train one on the job. I think that's part of the commitment to football and sports that the University needs to make if they're going to really be committed to this.

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You actually think that someone who is an ass-kicker AD would be offered the job at Cal? Let alone, want to come here? Our Governing body wouldn't allow a football AD to be hired. And if one was, they wouldn't have any power to change our culture. They would neuter the person from the start! That's why we've always hired questionable AD's. Gladestone, Barbour, Williams and JK. All were head scratching hires.
Until our mindset on revenue generating teams changes, nothing will change, regardless of the Athletic Department leadership! The Academic Senate is the problem!

calumnus said:

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bledblue said:

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maxer said:

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Bearly Clad said:

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That's fair but there's also been lots of coaches to make the leap to AD, recently there's been guys like Barry Alvarez, Chris Del Conte, Jeff Long, Doug Dickey, and lots more. There's a ton of examples but I was just going off the top of my head, I feel like a very high percentage of ADs were a coach at one point in their career.

There's lots of financial stuff that they may not be incredibly knowledgeable about initially but there's assistant ADs and support staff to advise them on that. It's like how most CEOs don't do the accounting work themselves they have to lead and take care of the big picture. I think Ron would be great at absorbing the information and making good decisions for the future of football and other programs

---

You may be right - i'd just love to hire someone who is the best at being an AD, and not train one on the job. I think that's part of the commitment to football and sports that the University needs to make if they're going to really be committed to this.

---

You actually think that someone who is an ass-kicker AD would be offered the job at Cal? Let alone, want to come here? Our Governing body wouldn't allow a football AD to be hired. And if one was, they wouldn't have any power to change our culture. They would neuter the person from the start! That's why we've always hired questionable AD's. Gladestone, Barbour, Williams and JK. All were head scratching hires.
Until our mindset on revenue generating teams changes, nothing will change, regardless of the Athletic Department leadership! The Academic Senate is the problem!

---

The Academic Senate does not hire the AD, the Chancelor does. The Academic Senste is not to blame for the hiring of Jim Knowlton and granting him a $1.3 million a year, 8 year contract extension, Carol Christ is.

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The Academic Senate has a major say in who gets hired as the Chancellor. That hire is a like minded person. Christ, and all before her, had the same mindset of how the Athletic Department should be run. They do not want a powerhouse football program. And their actions show it!

bledblue said:

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calumnus said:

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bledblue said:

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maxer said:

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Bearly Clad said:

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That's fair but there's also been lots of coaches to make the leap to AD, recently there's been guys like Barry Alvarez, Chris Del Conte, Jeff Long, Doug Dickey, and lots more. There's a ton of examples but I was just going off the top of my head, I feel like a very high percentage of ADs were a coach at one point in their career.

There's lots of financial stuff that they may not be incredibly knowledgeable about initially but there's assistant ADs and support staff to advise them on that. It's like how most CEOs don't do the accounting work themselves they have to lead and take care of the big picture. I think Ron would be great at absorbing the information and making good decisions for the future of football and other programs

---

You may be right - i'd just love to hire someone who is the best at being an AD, and not train one on the job. I think that's part of the commitment to football and sports that the University needs to make if they're going to really be committed to this.

---

You actually think that someone who is an ass-kicker AD would be offered the job at Cal? Let alone, want to come here? Our Governing body wouldn't allow a football AD to be hired. And if one was, they wouldn't have any power to change our culture. They would neuter the person from the start! That's why we've always hired questionable AD's. Gladestone, Barbour, Williams and JK. All were head scratching hires.
Until our mindset on revenue generating teams changes, nothing will change, regardless of the Athletic Department leadership! The Academic Senate is the problem!

---

The Academic Senate does not hire the AD, the Chancelor does. The Academic Senste is not to blame for the hiring of Jim Knowlton and granting him a $1.3 million a year, 8 year contract extension, Carol Christ is.

---

The Academic Senate has a major say in who gets hired as the Chancellor. That hire is a like minded person. Christ, and all before her, had the same mindset of how the Athletic Department should be run. They do not want a powerhouse football program. And their actions show it!

---

The first part is true: they have a big say in hiring the Chancellor and want someone who is like-minded. However, I do not believe "Not wanting a powerhouse football program" is a criterion. I do not believe anything regarding football is a criterion. The sole criterion is academic excellence and a lack of interest or expertise in football is merely a by-product.

This is why I believe management of the revenue sports, or the entire athletics department, should be outsourced to an alumni run nonprofit.

calumnus said:

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bledblue said:

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calumnus said:

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bledblue said:

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maxer said:

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Bearly Clad said:

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That's fair but there's also been lots of coaches to make the leap to AD, recently there's been guys like Barry Alvarez, Chris Del Conte, Jeff Long, Doug Dickey, and lots more. There's a ton of examples but I was just going off the top of my head, I feel like a very high percentage of ADs were a coach at one point in their career.

There's lots of financial stuff that they may not be incredibly knowledgeable about initially but there's assistant ADs and support staff to advise them on that. It's like how most CEOs don't do the accounting work themselves they have to lead and take care of the big picture. I think Ron would be great at absorbing the information and making good decisions for the future of football and other programs

---

You may be right - i'd just love to hire someone who is the best at being an AD, and not train one on the job. I think that's part of the commitment to football and sports that the University needs to make if they're going to really be committed to this.

---

You actually think that someone who is an ass-kicker AD would be offered the job at Cal? Let alone, want to come here? Our Governing body wouldn't allow a football AD to be hired. And if one was, they wouldn't have any power to change our culture. They would neuter the person from the start! That's why we've always hired questionable AD's. Gladestone, Barbour, Williams and JK. All were head scratching hires.
Until our mindset on revenue generating teams changes, nothing will change, regardless of the Athletic Department leadership! The Academic Senate is the problem!

---

The Academic Senate does not hire the AD, the Chancelor does. The Academic Senste is not to blame for the hiring of Jim Knowlton and granting him a $1.3 million a year, 8 year contract extension, Carol Christ is.

---

The Academic Senate has a major say in who gets hired as the Chancellor. That hire is a like minded person. Christ, and all before her, had the same mindset of how the Athletic Department should be run. They do not want a powerhouse football program. And their actions show it!

---

The first part is true: they have a big say in hiring the Chancellor and want someone who is like-minded. However, I do not believe "Not wanting a powerhouse football program" is a criterion. I do not believe anything regarding football is a criterion. The sole criterion is academic excellence and a lack of interest or expertise in football is merely a by-product.

This is why I believe management of the revenue sports, or the entire athletics department, should be outsourced to an alumni run nonprofit.

---

Not wanting a powerhouse football program" is their limited understanding of what it takes to be successful. They feel that they're committed to winning, but they're nowhere close to the commitment of successful programs. Feeling they can run football the same way they run olympic sports is idiotic! Don't know what they don't know.

bledblue said:

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calumnus said:

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bledblue said:

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calumnus said:

---

bledblue said:

---

maxer said:

---

Bearly Clad said:

---

That's fair but there's also been lots of coaches to make the leap to AD, recently there's been guys like Barry Alvarez, Chris Del Conte, Jeff Long, Doug Dickey, and lots more. There's a ton of examples but I was just going off the top of my head, I feel like a very high percentage of ADs were a coach at one point in their career.

There's lots of financial stuff that they may not be incredibly knowledgeable about initially but there's assistant ADs and support staff to advise them on that. It's like how most CEOs don't do the accounting work themselves they have to lead and take care of the big picture. I think Ron would be great at absorbing the information and making good decisions for the future of football and other programs

---

You may be right - i'd just love to hire someone who is the best at being an AD, and not train one on the job. I think that's part of the commitment to football and sports that the University needs to make if they're going to really be committed to this.

---

You actually think that someone who is an ass-kicker AD would be offered the job at Cal? Let alone, want to come here? Our Governing body wouldn't allow a football AD to be hired. And if one was, they wouldn't have any power to change our culture. They would neuter the person from the start! That's why we've always hired questionable AD's. Gladestone, Barbour, Williams and JK. All were head scratching hires.
Until our mindset on revenue generating teams changes, nothing will change, regardless of the Athletic Department leadership! The Academic Senate is the problem!

---

The Academic Senate does not hire the AD, the Chancelor does. The Academic Senste is not to blame for the hiring of Jim Knowlton and granting him a $1.3 million a year, 8 year contract extension, Carol Christ is.

---

The Academic Senate has a major say in who gets hired as the Chancellor. That hire is a like minded person. Christ, and all before her, had the same mindset of how the Athletic Department should be run. They do not want a powerhouse football program. And their actions show it!

---

The first part is true: they have a big say in hiring the Chancellor and want someone who is like-minded. However, I do not believe "Not wanting a powerhouse football program" is a criterion. I do not believe anything regarding football is a criterion. The sole criterion is academic excellence and a lack of interest or expertise in football is merely a by-product.

This is why I believe management of the revenue sports, or the entire athletics department, should be outsourced to an alumni run nonprofit.

---

Not wanting a powerhouse football program" is their limited understanding of what it takes to be successful. They feel that they're committed to winning, but they're nowhere close to the commitment of successful programs. Feeling they can run football the same way they run olympic sports is idiotic! Don't know what they don't know.

---

Carol Christ had ample experience in academic administration before becoming Cal's chancelor, including running all women's Smith. She had zero experience in mens athletics, especially big time football. As many have said, she has good intentions regarding football, she was just in way over her depth and was easily conned by Knowlton then by Kliavkoff and by all the other PAC-12 schools. Big time athletics is competitive and cut-throat in a way she just wasn't prepared for,

I have seen it reported here that the UC President is going to exert more influence for this hire than in the past (when the campus Academic Senate had a larger say). Whether this is true or not, I have no idea.

I'm surprised that the selection process isn't more institutionalized (or, if it is, that it is not made public).