Beating Oklahoma by 2 TD's.

PAC-12 Bowl record for 2023 so far: 3-2.

Jedd Fisch is a damn good coach! He's building something at Arizona. Wish we had a coach like him..

StarsDoMatter said:

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Jedd Fisch is a damn good coach! He's building something at Arizona. Wish we had a coach like him..

---

I wonder how long Fisch will stay at the only team from the former Pac 10 that never made it to the Rose Bowl. Hey, that might be a fun prank: Make up a few fake press releases about Fisch going to Clemson or wherever and leave them lying around the visitors' rooting section at Haas tomorrow night!

we did finlly w/oc...needed a more king schedule and odd injuries

Fisch is a heck of a coach. I'd take him as our head coach in a heartbeat.

The bowl games are a joke. I can't watch much knowing how so many players have bailed or used the game as auditions for the portal or NFL. Arizona played well considering and a good farewell to them leaving the Pathetic 12.

Strange watching PAC12 teams in bowl games knowing they're not our future opponents anymore. Only team on 2024 schedule that will feel familiar is Oregon State.

I couldn't figure whether Arizona beating Oklahoma means that Pac 12 > Big XII or Big XII > SEC

westcoast101 said:

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Fisch is a heck of a coach. I'd take him as our head coach in a heartbeat.

---

And even after his contract extension he gets paid almost $2 million a year less than Wilcox with less than half the buyout if UA fires him.

So again, the "We don't spend enough crowd" misses the mark. If anything we overspend for what we get.

calumnus said:

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westcoast101 said:

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Fisch is a heck of a coach. I'd take him as our head coach in a heartbeat.

---

And even after his contract extension he gets paid almost $2 million a year less than Wilcox with less than half the buyout if UA fires him.

So again, the "We don't spend enough crowd" misses the mark. If anything we overspend for what we get.

---

His best year at AZ prior to this season was 5-7. So, using Fisch's salary before 2023 as proof that Cal spends as much as its peers certainly misses the mark. Cal is cheap on everything but head coach salary, in which case they are paying for what they get. Good coaches don't want to come to Cal at market price after they saw what Cal did to Tedford and Dykes. You can certainly argue that, had Knowlton not given Wilcox so much guaranteed money, we'd be better off looking for a more inexpensive up and coming coordinator to take the reigns.

oski003 said:

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calumnus said:

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westcoast101 said:

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Fisch is a heck of a coach. I'd take him as our head coach in a heartbeat.

---

And even after his contract extension he gets paid almost $2 million a year less than Wilcox with less than half the buyout if UA fires him.

So again, the "We don't spend enough crowd" misses the mark. If anything we overspend for what we get.

---

His best year at AZ prior to this season was 5-7. So, using Fisch's salary before 2023 as proof that Cal spends as much as its peers certainly misses the mark. Cal is cheap on everything but head coach salary, in which case they are paying for what they get. Good coaches don't want to come to Cal at market price after they saw what Cal did to Tedford and Dykes. You can certainly argue that, had Knowlton not given Wilcox so much guaranteed money, we'd be better off looking for a more inexpensive up and coming coordinator to take the reigns.

---

Fisch took over a program that won zero the previous year and won 10 games in his third year.

Wilcox took over a program that won 5 the previous year, has now had seven years and has not elevated it or produced anything close to what Fisch has already done.

Wilcox is clearly a dud. Can't recruit, can't hire good assistants. and can't coach. Other than that.....

calumnus said:

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oski003 said:

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calumnus said:

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westcoast101 said:

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Fisch is a heck of a coach. I'd take him as our head coach in a heartbeat.

---

And even after his contract extension he gets paid almost $2 million a year less than Wilcox with less than half the buyout if UA fires him.

So again, the "We don't spend enough crowd" misses the mark. If anything we overspend for what we get.

---

His best year at AZ prior to this season was 5-7. So, using Fisch's salary before 2023 as proof that Cal spends as much as its peers certainly misses the mark. Cal is cheap on everything but head coach salary, in which case they are paying for what they get. Good coaches don't want to come to Cal at market price after they saw what Cal did to Tedford and Dykes. You can certainly argue that, had Knowlton not given Wilcox so much guaranteed money, we'd be better off looking for a more inexpensive up and coming coordinator to take the reigns.

---

Fisch took over a program that won zero the previous year and won 10 games in his third year.

Wilcox took over a program that won 5 the previous year, has now had seven years and has not elevated it or produced anything close to what Fisch has already done.

---

Bro, I am not saying Fisch is a bad coach, despite still having an overall losing record. He just hasn't had an extension since having a winning record. He will get a payday. Arizona also spends far more on other aspects of their football program than the inept Cal AD. That winless season was the severely shortened covid year btw. Arizona was winning around 8 games or so each season in the 2010s.

oski003 said:

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calumnus said:

---

oski003 said:

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calumnus said:

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westcoast101 said:

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Fisch is a heck of a coach. I'd take him as our head coach in a heartbeat.

---

And even after his contract extension he gets paid almost $2 million a year less than Wilcox with less than half the buyout if UA fires him.

So again, the "We don't spend enough crowd" misses the mark. If anything we overspend for what we get.

---

His best year at AZ prior to this season was 5-7. So, using Fisch's salary before 2023 as proof that Cal spends as much as its peers certainly misses the mark. Cal is cheap on everything but head coach salary, in which case they are paying for what they get. Good coaches don't want to come to Cal at market price after they saw what Cal did to Tedford and Dykes. You can certainly argue that, had Knowlton not given Wilcox so much guaranteed money, we'd be better off looking for a more inexpensive up and coming coordinator to take the reigns.

---

Fisch took over a program that won zero the previous year and won 10 games in his third year.

Wilcox took over a program that won 5 the previous year, has now had seven years and has not elevated it or produced anything close to what Fisch has already done.

---

Bro, I am not saying Fisch is a bad coach, despite still having an overall losing record. He just hasn't had an extension since having a winning record. He will get a payday. Arizona also spends far more on other aspects of their football program than the inept Cal AD. That winless season was the severely shortened covid year btw. Arizona was winning around 8 games or so each season in the 2010s.

---

UA fired Sumlin and hired Fisch after that winless COVID season so it was not treated like a mulligan elsewhere.

And 5-7 was Wilcox's record also when he got his 6 year extension at a much higher salary 100% guaranteed (Fisch gets about 60 % and only 65% of that is guaranteed if he is fired).

So now that Fisch has won 10 in year 3 he is eventually going to get paid what Wilcox makes? That is my point. We are paying Wilcox like a guy who wins 10 when he is a guy who would have long ago been fired anywhere else. We are overpaying for what we have. We could have hired Fisch and have been paying what Arizona has been paying.

I think we all know where we're at with Wilcox. It won't be long at all before Fisch is making a lot more money, whomever is paying his next contract.

calumnus said:

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westcoast101 said:

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Fisch is a heck of a coach. I'd take him as our head coach in a heartbeat.

---

And even after his contract extension he gets paid almost $2 million a year less than Wilcox with less than half the buyout if UA fires him.

So again, the "We don't spend enough crowd" misses the mark. If anything we overspend for what we get.

---

Not sure when Fisch will be offered an extension, but DeBoer was just offered 8.4 million to stay at UW and left go make 12 million per year at Alabama with Alabama also paying UW DeBoer's buyout of 12 million.

oski003 said:

---

calumnus said:

---

westcoast101 said:

---

Fisch is a heck of a coach. I'd take him as our head coach in a heartbeat.

---

And even after his contract extension he gets paid almost $2 million a year less than Wilcox with less than half the buyout if UA fires him.

So again, the "We don't spend enough crowd" misses the mark. If anything we overspend for what we get.

---

Not sure when Fisch will be offered an extension, but DeBoer was just offered 8.4 million to stay at UW and left go make 12 million per year at Alabama with Alabama also paying UW DeBoer's buyout of 12 million.

---

UW is in the B1G and Alabama is the current king of the SEC. Those two conferences are paid FAR more than the other 7 FBS conferences. Moreover DeBoer is a proven winner. With Saban finally retiring, Alabama has no buyout and can go after anyone, so DeBoer being their top target puts him in an elite class. The op choice of the to school. The majority of FBS coaches make FAR less. FCS coaches far less than that.

Wilcox has a losing record and has never finished in the top half of his conference in 7 attempts. By at least one measure he is the worst Cal coach of all time. At most FBS schools, Wilcox would not even be still employed. The fact DeBoer took UW to the National Championship Game and UW is going the B1G and will be paid $20 million (?) more than Cal but was only willing to pay $8.4 million relative to Wilcox's $5 million is NOT an argument that Cal underpays. It is an argument that Cal overpays for the wrong coaches.

If Cal had not extended Wilcox and instead hired DeBoer 2 years ago, paying him exactly what UW paid him (less than we were paying Wilcox) and we went undefeated and made it to the National Championship Game, only to lose him to Alabama in the year Saban finally retires…

calumnus said:

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oski003 said:

---

calumnus said:

---

westcoast101 said:

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Fisch is a heck of a coach. I'd take him as our head coach in a heartbeat.

---

And even after his contract extension he gets paid almost $2 million a year less than Wilcox with less than half the buyout if UA fires him.

So again, the "We don't spend enough crowd" misses the mark. If anything we overspend for what we get.

---

Not sure when Fisch will be offered an extension, but DeBoer was just offered 8.4 million to stay at UW and left go make 12 million per year at Alabama with Alabama also paying UW DeBoer's buyout of 12 million.

---

UW is in the B1G and Alabama is the current king of the SEC. Those two conferences are paid FAR more than the other 7 FBS conferences. Moreover DeBoer is a proven winner. With Saban finally retiring, Alabama has no buyout and can go after anyone, so DeBoer being their top target puts him in an elite class. The op choice of the to school. The majority of FBS coaches make FAR less. FCS coaches far less than that.

Wilcox has a losing record and has never finished in the top half of his conference in 7 attempts. By at least one measure he is the worst Cal coach of all time. At most FBS schools, Wilcox would not even be still employed. The fact DeBoer took UW to the National Championship Game and UW is going the B1G and will be paid $20 million (?) more than Cal but was only willing to pay $8.4 million relative to Wilcox's $5 million is NOT an argument that Cal underpays. It is an argument that Cal overpays for the wrong coaches.

If Cal had not extended Wilcox and instead hired DeBoer 2 years ago, paying him exactly what UW paid him (less than we were paying Wilcox) and we went undefeated and made it to the National Championship Game, only to lose him to Alabama in the year Saban finally retires…

---

The salary of non p5 FBS coaches is irrelevant. FCS coaches? Are you kidding me? Incredibly irrelevant. Cal's SOS was right there with Alabama's last season. They are playing just as tough as opponents as just about anybody.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/fbschedules.com/college-football-strength-of-schedule-phil-steeles-2023-rankings/amp/

If only Cal could have a coach who could take a team to the Natty, like a DeBoer or a Dykes.

Also, Fisch and his staff are about to get paid.

https://saturdayoutwest.com/arizona-wildcats/jedd-fisch-comments-on-contract-extension-talks-future-with-arizona/

What is crappy about Wilcox's contract is its guaranteed money. Cal does not overpay its coaching staff, and it certainly doesn't overspend on football.

oski003 said:

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calumnus said:

---

oski003 said:

---

calumnus said:

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westcoast101 said:

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Fisch is a heck of a coach. I'd take him as our head coach in a heartbeat.

---

And even after his contract extension he gets paid almost $2 million a year less than Wilcox with less than half the buyout if UA fires him.

So again, the "We don't spend enough crowd" misses the mark. If anything we overspend for what we get.

---

Not sure when Fisch will be offered an extension, but DeBoer was just offered 8.4 million to stay at UW and left go make 12 million per year at Alabama with Alabama also paying UW DeBoer's buyout of 12 million.

---

UW is in the B1G and Alabama is the current king of the SEC. Those two conferences are paid FAR more than the other 7 FBS conferences. Moreover DeBoer is a proven winner. With Saban finally retiring, Alabama has no buyout and can go after anyone, so DeBoer being their top target puts him in an elite class. The op choice of the to school. The majority of FBS coaches make FAR less. FCS coaches far less than that.

Wilcox has a losing record and has never finished in the top half of his conference in 7 attempts. By at least one measure he is the worst Cal coach of all time. At most FBS schools, Wilcox would not even be still employed. The fact DeBoer took UW to the National Championship Game and UW is going the B1G and will be paid $20 million (?) more than Cal but was only willing to pay $8.4 million relative to Wilcox's $5 million is NOT an argument that Cal underpays. It is an argument that Cal overpays for the wrong coaches.

If Cal had not extended Wilcox and instead hired DeBoer 2 years ago, paying him exactly what UW paid him (less than we were paying Wilcox) and we went undefeated and made it to the National Championship Game, only to lose him to Alabama in the year Saban finally retires…

---

The salary of non p5 FBS coaches is irrelevant. FCS coaches? Are you kidding me? Incredibly irrelevant. Cal's SOS was right there with Alabama's last season. They are playing just as tough as opponents as just about anybody.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/fbschedules.com/college-football-strength-of-schedule-phil-steeles-2023-rankings/amp/

If only Cal could have a coach who could take a team to the Natty, like a DeBoer or a Dykes.

Also, Fisch and his staff are about to get paid.

https://saturdayoutwest.com/arizona-wildcats/jedd-fisch-comments-on-contract-extension-talks-future-with-arizona/

What is crappy about Wilcox's contract is its guaranteed money. Cal does not overpay its coaching staff, and it certainly doesn't overspend on football.

---

AGAIN, the issue I was refuting was "Cal doesn't pay enough, that is why we can't compete. Wilcox is all we can afford."

Cal pays enough to have gotten the same coach that took Washington to the Natty. Sure, maybe not enough to keep him afterward if Alabama has an opening and will always be able to outspend us.

What I am saying is we are over paying WILCOX.

Wilcox is not worth what we pay him, Most places he would be fired, not continuing to make $5 million a year.

Wilcox is overpaid.

Our problem is NOT how much we spend. Our problem is who we spend it on.

Understand?

calumnus said:

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oski003 said:

---

calumnus said:

---

oski003 said:

---

calumnus said:

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westcoast101 said:

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Fisch is a heck of a coach. I'd take him as our head coach in a heartbeat.

---

And even after his contract extension he gets paid almost $2 million a year less than Wilcox with less than half the buyout if UA fires him.

So again, the "We don't spend enough crowd" misses the mark. If anything we overspend for what we get.

---

Not sure when Fisch will be offered an extension, but DeBoer was just offered 8.4 million to stay at UW and left go make 12 million per year at Alabama with Alabama also paying UW DeBoer's buyout of 12 million.

---

UW is in the B1G and Alabama is the current king of the SEC. Those two conferences are paid FAR more than the other 7 FBS conferences. Moreover DeBoer is a proven winner. With Saban finally retiring, Alabama has no buyout and can go after anyone, so DeBoer being their top target puts him in an elite class. The op choice of the to school. The majority of FBS coaches make FAR less. FCS coaches far less than that.

Wilcox has a losing record and has never finished in the top half of his conference in 7 attempts. By at least one measure he is the worst Cal coach of all time. At most FBS schools, Wilcox would not even be still employed. The fact DeBoer took UW to the National Championship Game and UW is going the B1G and will be paid $20 million (?) more than Cal but was only willing to pay $8.4 million relative to Wilcox's $5 million is NOT an argument that Cal underpays. It is an argument that Cal overpays for the wrong coaches.

If Cal had not extended Wilcox and instead hired DeBoer 2 years ago, paying him exactly what UW paid him (less than we were paying Wilcox) and we went undefeated and made it to the National Championship Game, only to lose him to Alabama in the year Saban finally retires…

---

The salary of non p5 FBS coaches is irrelevant. FCS coaches? Are you kidding me? Incredibly irrelevant. Cal's SOS was right there with Alabama's last season. They are playing just as tough as opponents as just about anybody.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/fbschedules.com/college-football-strength-of-schedule-phil-steeles-2023-rankings/amp/

If only Cal could have a coach who could take a team to the Natty, like a DeBoer or a Dykes.

Also, Fisch and his staff are about to get paid.

https://saturdayoutwest.com/arizona-wildcats/jedd-fisch-comments-on-contract-extension-talks-future-with-arizona/

What is crappy about Wilcox's contract is its guaranteed money. Cal does not overpay its coaching staff, and it certainly doesn't overspend on football.

---

AGAIN, the issue I was refuting was "Cal doesn't pay enough, that is why we can't compete. Wilcox is all we can afford."

Cal pays enough to have gotten the same coach that took Washington to the Natty. Sure, maybe not enough to keep him afterward if Alabama has an opening and will always be able to outspend us.

What I am saying is we are over paying WILCOX.

Wilcox is not worth what we pay him, Most places he would be fired, not continuing to make $5 million a year.

Wilcox is overpaid.

Our problem is NOT how much we spend. Our problem is who we spend it on.

Understand?

---

2023 Contracts
#1 in Pac 12, #6 FBS Lincoln Riley $10m
#2 in Pac 12, #19 FBS Dan Lanning $6.6m
#3 in Pac 12, #23 FBS Kyle Whittingham. $6.3m
#4 in Pac 12, # 27 FBS Chip Kelly $5.9m
#5 in Pac12, #32 FBS Deion Sanders $5.5m
#6 in Pac12, #37 FBS Jonathan Smith $4.8m
#7 in Pac12, #40 FBS Justin Wilcox. $4.4m
#8 in Pac12, #44 FBS Kalen DeBoer $4m, $8m/$12m in 2024
#9 in Pac12, #45 FBS Kenny Dillingham $3.8m
#10 in Pac12, #54 FBS Jedd Fisch $2.8m, Negotiating Extension
#11 in Pac12, #61 FBS Jake Dickert. $2.7m

Troy Taylor's salary is unknown. David Shaw made $9 million per year .

Considering our lack of institutional support, we pay for what we get. Referencing young coaches winning under their first p5 contract (who are subsequently getting $$$$) doesn't prove your point.

oski003 said:

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calumnus said:

---

oski003 said:

---

calumnus said:

---

oski003 said:

---

calumnus said:

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westcoast101 said:

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Fisch is a heck of a coach. I'd take him as our head coach in a heartbeat.

---

And even after his contract extension he gets paid almost $2 million a year less than Wilcox with less than half the buyout if UA fires him.

So again, the "We don't spend enough crowd" misses the mark. If anything we overspend for what we get.

---

Not sure when Fisch will be offered an extension, but DeBoer was just offered 8.4 million to stay at UW and left go make 12 million per year at Alabama with Alabama also paying UW DeBoer's buyout of 12 million.

---

UW is in the B1G and Alabama is the current king of the SEC. Those two conferences are paid FAR more than the other 7 FBS conferences. Moreover DeBoer is a proven winner. With Saban finally retiring, Alabama has no buyout and can go after anyone, so DeBoer being their top target puts him in an elite class. The op choice of the to school. The majority of FBS coaches make FAR less. FCS coaches far less than that.

Wilcox has a losing record and has never finished in the top half of his conference in 7 attempts. By at least one measure he is the worst Cal coach of all time. At most FBS schools, Wilcox would not even be still employed. The fact DeBoer took UW to the National Championship Game and UW is going the B1G and will be paid $20 million (?) more than Cal but was only willing to pay $8.4 million relative to Wilcox's $5 million is NOT an argument that Cal underpays. It is an argument that Cal overpays for the wrong coaches.

If Cal had not extended Wilcox and instead hired DeBoer 2 years ago, paying him exactly what UW paid him (less than we were paying Wilcox) and we went undefeated and made it to the National Championship Game, only to lose him to Alabama in the year Saban finally retires…

---

The salary of non p5 FBS coaches is irrelevant. FCS coaches? Are you kidding me? Incredibly irrelevant. Cal's SOS was right there with Alabama's last season. They are playing just as tough as opponents as just about anybody.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/fbschedules.com/college-football-strength-of-schedule-phil-steeles-2023-rankings/amp/

If only Cal could have a coach who could take a team to the Natty, like a DeBoer or a Dykes.

Also, Fisch and his staff are about to get paid.

https://saturdayoutwest.com/arizona-wildcats/jedd-fisch-comments-on-contract-extension-talks-future-with-arizona/

What is crappy about Wilcox's contract is its guaranteed money. Cal does not overpay its coaching staff, and it certainly doesn't overspend on football.

---

AGAIN, the issue I was refuting was "Cal doesn't pay enough, that is why we can't compete. Wilcox is all we can afford."

Cal pays enough to have gotten the same coach that took Washington to the Natty. Sure, maybe not enough to keep him afterward if Alabama has an opening and will always be able to outspend us.

What I am saying is we are over paying WILCOX.

Wilcox is not worth what we pay him, Most places he would be fired, not continuing to make $5 million a year.

Wilcox is overpaid.

Our problem is NOT how much we spend. Our problem is who we spend it on.

Understand?

---

2023 Contracts
#1 in Pac 12, #6 FBS Lincoln Riley $10m
#2 in Pac 12, #19 FBS Dan Lanning $6.6m
#3 in Pac 12, #23 FBS Kyle Whittingham. $6.3m
#4 in Pac 12, # 27 FBS Chip Kelly $5.9m
#5 in Pac12, #32 FBS Deion Sanders $5.5m
#6 in Pac12, #37 FBS Jonathan Smith $4.8m
#7 in Pac12, #40 FBS Justin Wilcox. $4.4m
#8 in Pac12, #44 FBS Kalen DeBoer $4m, $8m/$12m in 2024
#9 in Pac12, #45 FBS Kenny Dillingham $3.8m
#10 in Pac12, #54 FBS Jedd Fisch $2.8m, Negotiating Extension
#11 in Pac12, #61 FBS Jake Dickert. $2.7m

Troy Taylor's salary is unknown. David Shaw made $9 million per year .

Considering our lack of institutional support, we pay for what we get. Referencing young coaches winning under their first p5 contract (who are subsequently getting $$$$) doesn't prove your point.

---

We are overpaying for Justin Wilcox.

Coaches who have achieved something get paid. The people above him have had Top 20 seasons or better. The people below him have too.

If DeBoer (or Wilcox) took us to the National Championship Game you can bet Cal donors would put up money to give a significant raise.

We are overpaying for Justin Wilcox. Instead of renewing his contract and giving him a raise we could have hired DeBoer or Fisch.

At #40 Wilcox is in the top third of FBS coaches in pay. Take away all the coaches of the much higher revenue B1G and SEC teams and he is in the Top 10?

We are grossly overpaying for Justin Wilcox. We don't have Justin Wilcox because that is all we can afford, that is absurd, we could have afforded DeBoer or Fisch. It is who we are spending our money on that is the problem.

Your suggesting Stanford hired Troy Taylor away from Sac Stare where he made a few hundred thousand and is paying him anything close to what they were paying David Shaw AFTER taking them to three Rose Bowls shows you have no grasp of the economics. David Shaw did not start at a salary anywhere near $9 million. You get those kinds of raises with big results. Just like DeBoer is now getting.

What has Wilcox accomplished to get the raises and extensions he has received? Nothing. THAT is our problem. Extending a losing coach and giving him raises.

Do you honestly think that if Cal paid Justin Wilcox $20 million it would make us better? We would just be overpaying Wilcox by even more.

calumnus said:

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oski003 said:

---

calumnus said:

---

oski003 said:

---

calumnus said:

---

oski003 said:

---

calumnus said:

---

westcoast101 said:

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Fisch is a heck of a coach. I'd take him as our head coach in a heartbeat.

---

And even after his contract extension he gets paid almost $2 million a year less than Wilcox with less than half the buyout if UA fires him.

So again, the "We don't spend enough crowd" misses the mark. If anything we overspend for what we get.

---

Not sure when Fisch will be offered an extension, but DeBoer was just offered 8.4 million to stay at UW and left go make 12 million per year at Alabama with Alabama also paying UW DeBoer's buyout of 12 million.

---

UW is in the B1G and Alabama is the current king of the SEC. Those two conferences are paid FAR more than the other 7 FBS conferences. Moreover DeBoer is a proven winner. With Saban finally retiring, Alabama has no buyout and can go after anyone, so DeBoer being their top target puts him in an elite class. The op choice of the to school. The majority of FBS coaches make FAR less. FCS coaches far less than that.

Wilcox has a losing record and has never finished in the top half of his conference in 7 attempts. By at least one measure he is the worst Cal coach of all time. At most FBS schools, Wilcox would not even be still employed. The fact DeBoer took UW to the National Championship Game and UW is going the B1G and will be paid $20 million (?) more than Cal but was only willing to pay $8.4 million relative to Wilcox's $5 million is NOT an argument that Cal underpays. It is an argument that Cal overpays for the wrong coaches.

If Cal had not extended Wilcox and instead hired DeBoer 2 years ago, paying him exactly what UW paid him (less than we were paying Wilcox) and we went undefeated and made it to the National Championship Game, only to lose him to Alabama in the year Saban finally retires…

---

The salary of non p5 FBS coaches is irrelevant. FCS coaches? Are you kidding me? Incredibly irrelevant. Cal's SOS was right there with Alabama's last season. They are playing just as tough as opponents as just about anybody.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/fbschedules.com/college-football-strength-of-schedule-phil-steeles-2023-rankings/amp/

If only Cal could have a coach who could take a team to the Natty, like a DeBoer or a Dykes.

Also, Fisch and his staff are about to get paid.

https://saturdayoutwest.com/arizona-wildcats/jedd-fisch-comments-on-contract-extension-talks-future-with-arizona/

What is crappy about Wilcox's contract is its guaranteed money. Cal does not overpay its coaching staff, and it certainly doesn't overspend on football.

---

AGAIN, the issue I was refuting was "Cal doesn't pay enough, that is why we can't compete. Wilcox is all we can afford."

Cal pays enough to have gotten the same coach that took Washington to the Natty. Sure, maybe not enough to keep him afterward if Alabama has an opening and will always be able to outspend us.

What I am saying is we are over paying WILCOX.

Wilcox is not worth what we pay him, Most places he would be fired, not continuing to make $5 million a year.

Wilcox is overpaid.

Our problem is NOT how much we spend. Our problem is who we spend it on.

Understand?

---

2023 Contracts
#1 in Pac 12, #6 FBS Lincoln Riley $10m
#2 in Pac 12, #19 FBS Dan Lanning $6.6m
#3 in Pac 12, #23 FBS Kyle Whittingham. $6.3m
#4 in Pac 12, # 27 FBS Chip Kelly $5.9m
#5 in Pac12, #32 FBS Deion Sanders $5.5m
#6 in Pac12, #37 FBS Jonathan Smith $4.8m
#7 in Pac12, #40 FBS Justin Wilcox. $4.4m
#8 in Pac12, #44 FBS Kalen DeBoer $4m, $8m/$12m in 2024
#9 in Pac12, #45 FBS Kenny Dillingham $3.8m
#10 in Pac12, #54 FBS Jedd Fisch $2.8m, Negotiating Extension
#11 in Pac12, #61 FBS Jake Dickert. $2.7m

Troy Taylor's salary is unknown. David Shaw made $9 million per year .

Considering our lack of institutional support, we pay for what we get. Referencing young coaches winning under their first p5 contract (who are subsequently getting $$$$) doesn't prove your point.

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We are overpaying for Justin Wilcox.

Coaches who have achieved something get paid. The people above him have had Top 20 seasons or better. The people below him have too.

If DeBoer (or Wilcox) took us to the National Championship Game you can bet Cal donors would put up money to give a significant raise.

We are overpaying for Justin Wilcox. Instead of renewing his contract and giving him a raise we could have hired DeBoer or Fisch.

At #40 Wilcox is in the top third of FBS coaches in pay. Take away all the coaches of the much higher revenue B1G and SEC teams and he is in the Top 10?

We are grossly overpaying for Justin Wilcox. We don't have Justin Wilcox because that is all we can afford, that is absurd, we could have afforded DeBoer or Fisch. It is who we are spending our money on that is the problem.

Your suggesting Stanford hired Troy Taylor away from Sac Stare where he made a few hundred thousand and is paying him anything close to what they were paying David Shaw AFTER taking them to three Rose Bowls shows you have no grasp of the economics. David Shaw did not start at a salary anywhere near $9 million. You get those kinds of raises with big results. Just like DeBoer is now getting.

What has Wilcox accomplished to get the raises and extensions he has received? Nothing. THAT is our problem. Extending a losing coach and giving him raises.

Do you honestly think that if Cal paid Justin Wilcox $20 million it would make us better? We would just be overpaying Wilcox by even more.

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Deion has not had a top 25 FBS season, nor has Dillingham, nor has Dickert.

Take away all the other FBS coaches and Wilxox is the top paid coach in the land of coach Narnia!

Of course if we strike lightning, we could get the right up and comer who can give us a great season. The skeptic in me, however, sees the fact that Dykes didn't succeed here and then took a team to the National Championship. Given that fact and Tedford's burnout, the most sought after coaches don't want to come here.

I am not suggesting Troy Taylor makes 9 million a year. If I was, I would have put him above #7/#40 Wilcox in my list. Nice Strawman. This is a good time to point out, however, that some private school coaches aren't on the list, so #40 could be closer to #50 highest paid.

Wilcox has kept our program respectable, with us occasionally finishing in Others Receiving Votes. We were #14 before Garbers injury. That is the best we have done, which isn't much besides keep us respectable.

Again Strawman. Nobody believes that paying Wilcox more makes him better. I do, however, believe that Wilcox would be finishing in the top 25 if he were at Oregon. He probably isn't as good as Lanning, but we don't really know because he coaches at a school that played a harder schedule with a fraction of their football budget.

oski003 said:

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calumnus said:

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oski003 said:

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calumnus said:

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oski003 said:

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calumnus said:

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oski003 said:

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calumnus said:

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westcoast101 said:

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Fisch is a heck of a coach. I'd take him as our head coach in a heartbeat.

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And even after his contract extension he gets paid almost $2 million a year less than Wilcox with less than half the buyout if UA fires him.

So again, the "We don't spend enough crowd" misses the mark. If anything we overspend for what we get.

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Not sure when Fisch will be offered an extension, but DeBoer was just offered 8.4 million to stay at UW and left go make 12 million per year at Alabama with Alabama also paying UW DeBoer's buyout of 12 million.

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UW is in the B1G and Alabama is the current king of the SEC. Those two conferences are paid FAR more than the other 7 FBS conferences. Moreover DeBoer is a proven winner. With Saban finally retiring, Alabama has no buyout and can go after anyone, so DeBoer being their top target puts him in an elite class. The op choice of the to school. The majority of FBS coaches make FAR less. FCS coaches far less than that.

Wilcox has a losing record and has never finished in the top half of his conference in 7 attempts. By at least one measure he is the worst Cal coach of all time. At most FBS schools, Wilcox would not even be still employed. The fact DeBoer took UW to the National Championship Game and UW is going the B1G and will be paid $20 million (?) more than Cal but was only willing to pay $8.4 million relative to Wilcox's $5 million is NOT an argument that Cal underpays. It is an argument that Cal overpays for the wrong coaches.

If Cal had not extended Wilcox and instead hired DeBoer 2 years ago, paying him exactly what UW paid him (less than we were paying Wilcox) and we went undefeated and made it to the National Championship Game, only to lose him to Alabama in the year Saban finally retires…

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The salary of non p5 FBS coaches is irrelevant. FCS coaches? Are you kidding me? Incredibly irrelevant. Cal's SOS was right there with Alabama's last season. They are playing just as tough as opponents as just about anybody.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/fbschedules.com/college-football-strength-of-schedule-phil-steeles-2023-rankings/amp/

If only Cal could have a coach who could take a team to the Natty, like a DeBoer or a Dykes.

Also, Fisch and his staff are about to get paid.

https://saturdayoutwest.com/arizona-wildcats/jedd-fisch-comments-on-contract-extension-talks-future-with-arizona/

What is crappy about Wilcox's contract is its guaranteed money. Cal does not overpay its coaching staff, and it certainly doesn't overspend on football.

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AGAIN, the issue I was refuting was "Cal doesn't pay enough, that is why we can't compete. Wilcox is all we can afford."

Cal pays enough to have gotten the same coach that took Washington to the Natty. Sure, maybe not enough to keep him afterward if Alabama has an opening and will always be able to outspend us.

What I am saying is we are over paying WILCOX.

Wilcox is not worth what we pay him, Most places he would be fired, not continuing to make $5 million a year.

Wilcox is overpaid.

Our problem is NOT how much we spend. Our problem is who we spend it on.

Understand?

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2023 Contracts
#1 in Pac 12, #6 FBS Lincoln Riley $10m
#2 in Pac 12, #19 FBS Dan Lanning $6.6m
#3 in Pac 12, #23 FBS Kyle Whittingham. $6.3m
#4 in Pac 12, # 27 FBS Chip Kelly $5.9m
#5 in Pac12, #32 FBS Deion Sanders $5.5m
#6 in Pac12, #37 FBS Jonathan Smith $4.8m
#7 in Pac12, #40 FBS Justin Wilcox. $4.4m
#8 in Pac12, #44 FBS Kalen DeBoer $4m, $8m/$12m in 2024
#9 in Pac12, #45 FBS Kenny Dillingham $3.8m
#10 in Pac12, #54 FBS Jedd Fisch $2.8m, Negotiating Extension
#11 in Pac12, #61 FBS Jake Dickert. $2.7m

Troy Taylor's salary is unknown. David Shaw made $9 million per year .

Considering our lack of institutional support, we pay for what we get. Referencing young coaches winning under their first p5 contract (who are subsequently getting $$$$) doesn't prove your point.

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We are overpaying for Justin Wilcox.

Coaches who have achieved something get paid. The people above him have had Top 20 seasons or better. The people below him have too.

If DeBoer (or Wilcox) took us to the National Championship Game you can bet Cal donors would put up money to give a significant raise.

We are overpaying for Justin Wilcox. Instead of renewing his contract and giving him a raise we could have hired DeBoer or Fisch.

At #40 Wilcox is in the top third of FBS coaches in pay. Take away all the coaches of the much higher revenue B1G and SEC teams and he is in the Top 10?

We are grossly overpaying for Justin Wilcox. We don't have Justin Wilcox because that is all we can afford, that is absurd, we could have afforded DeBoer or Fisch. It is who we are spending our money on that is the problem.

Your suggesting Stanford hired Troy Taylor away from Sac Stare where he made a few hundred thousand and is paying him anything close to what they were paying David Shaw AFTER taking them to three Rose Bowls shows you have no grasp of the economics. David Shaw did not start at a salary anywhere near $9 million. You get those kinds of raises with big results. Just like DeBoer is now getting.

What has Wilcox accomplished to get the raises and extensions he has received? Nothing. THAT is our problem. Extending a losing coach and giving him raises.

Do you honestly think that if Cal paid Justin Wilcox $20 million it would make us better? We would just be overpaying Wilcox by even more.

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Deion has not had a top 25 FBS season, nor has Dillingham, nor has Dickert.

Take away all the other FBS coaches and Wilxox is the top paid coach in the land of coach Narnia!

Of course if we strike lightning, we could get the right up and comer who can give us a great season. The skeptic in me, however, sees the fact that Dykes didn't succeed here and then took a team to the National Championship. Given that fact and Tedford's burnout, the most sought after coaches don't want to come here.

I am not suggesting Troy Taylor makes 9 million a year. If I was, I would have put him above #7/#40 Wilcox in my list. Nice Strawman. This is a good time to point out, however, that some private school coaches aren't on the list, so #40 could be closer to #50 highest paid.

Wilcox has kept our program respectable, with us occasionally finishing in Others Receiving Votes. We were #14 before Garbers injury. That is the best we have done, which isn't much besides keep us respectable.

Again Strawman. Nobody believes that paying Wilcox more makes him better. I do, however, believe that Wilcox would be finishing in the top 25 if he were at Oregon. He probably isn't as good as Lanning, but we don't really know because he coaches at a school that played a harder schedule with a fraction of their football budget.

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"Kept us respectable?" Over the seven years he has been our coach, what PAC-12 school had a worse record? We almost got relegated like WSU and OSU who had good football teams but subpar academics.
If your argument is that at least he wins a few conference games and beats FCS teams and patsies, I do agree, it could be worse.

Wilcox is better at his job than Knowlton is at his and at least I like Wilcox, but he was miscast as a head coach at this level which he has demonstrated over the last 7 years. He should not have been extended, but that was Knowlton's incompetence.

I can only pray UW shares your high opinion of Wilcox (and low opinion of Cal) and hires him away from us. UW thought the exact same thing when they hired Gilbertson after we fired him despite doing better at Cal than Wilcox has and we saw how that turned out. No, it was not Top 25, He did even worse at UW than he did at Cal 6-6 then 1-10.

Meanwhile Tedford was a hair away from an undefeated regular season (and potential National Championship) at Cal. And that was before we put half a billion dollars into our facilities.

Within a certain level (ie the PAC-12 North) it isn't the school so much as the coach (and the AD who hires and fires cosches). NIL changes the calculus, and we are doing well there, but you still need good or great coaching. Coaches that can only deliver subpar results are not worth spending on. Everywhere else a coach like that is terminated and the school tries again.

calumnus said:

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oski003 said:

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calumnus said:

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oski003 said:

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calumnus said:

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oski003 said:

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calumnus said:

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oski003 said:

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calumnus said:

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westcoast101 said:

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Fisch is a heck of a coach. I'd take him as our head coach in a heartbeat.

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And even after his contract extension he gets paid almost $2 million a year less than Wilcox with less than half the buyout if UA fires him.

So again, the "We don't spend enough crowd" misses the mark. If anything we overspend for what we get.

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Not sure when Fisch will be offered an extension, but DeBoer was just offered 8.4 million to stay at UW and left go make 12 million per year at Alabama with Alabama also paying UW DeBoer's buyout of 12 million.

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UW is in the B1G and Alabama is the current king of the SEC. Those two conferences are paid FAR more than the other 7 FBS conferences. Moreover DeBoer is a proven winner. With Saban finally retiring, Alabama has no buyout and can go after anyone, so DeBoer being their top target puts him in an elite class. The op choice of the to school. The majority of FBS coaches make FAR less. FCS coaches far less than that.

Wilcox has a losing record and has never finished in the top half of his conference in 7 attempts. By at least one measure he is the worst Cal coach of all time. At most FBS schools, Wilcox would not even be still employed. The fact DeBoer took UW to the National Championship Game and UW is going the B1G and will be paid $20 million (?) more than Cal but was only willing to pay $8.4 million relative to Wilcox's $5 million is NOT an argument that Cal underpays. It is an argument that Cal overpays for the wrong coaches.

If Cal had not extended Wilcox and instead hired DeBoer 2 years ago, paying him exactly what UW paid him (less than we were paying Wilcox) and we went undefeated and made it to the National Championship Game, only to lose him to Alabama in the year Saban finally retires…

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The salary of non p5 FBS coaches is irrelevant. FCS coaches? Are you kidding me? Incredibly irrelevant. Cal's SOS was right there with Alabama's last season. They are playing just as tough as opponents as just about anybody.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/fbschedules.com/college-football-strength-of-schedule-phil-steeles-2023-rankings/amp/

If only Cal could have a coach who could take a team to the Natty, like a DeBoer or a Dykes.

Also, Fisch and his staff are about to get paid.

https://saturdayoutwest.com/arizona-wildcats/jedd-fisch-comments-on-contract-extension-talks-future-with-arizona/

What is crappy about Wilcox's contract is its guaranteed money. Cal does not overpay its coaching staff, and it certainly doesn't overspend on football.

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AGAIN, the issue I was refuting was "Cal doesn't pay enough, that is why we can't compete. Wilcox is all we can afford."

Cal pays enough to have gotten the same coach that took Washington to the Natty. Sure, maybe not enough to keep him afterward if Alabama has an opening and will always be able to outspend us.

What I am saying is we are over paying WILCOX.

Wilcox is not worth what we pay him, Most places he would be fired, not continuing to make $5 million a year.

Wilcox is overpaid.

Our problem is NOT how much we spend. Our problem is who we spend it on.

Understand?

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2023 Contracts
#1 in Pac 12, #6 FBS Lincoln Riley $10m
#2 in Pac 12, #19 FBS Dan Lanning $6.6m
#3 in Pac 12, #23 FBS Kyle Whittingham. $6.3m
#4 in Pac 12, # 27 FBS Chip Kelly $5.9m
#5 in Pac12, #32 FBS Deion Sanders $5.5m
#6 in Pac12, #37 FBS Jonathan Smith $4.8m
#7 in Pac12, #40 FBS Justin Wilcox. $4.4m
#8 in Pac12, #44 FBS Kalen DeBoer $4m, $8m/$12m in 2024
#9 in Pac12, #45 FBS Kenny Dillingham $3.8m
#10 in Pac12, #54 FBS Jedd Fisch $2.8m, Negotiating Extension
#11 in Pac12, #61 FBS Jake Dickert. $2.7m

Troy Taylor's salary is unknown. David Shaw made $9 million per year .

Considering our lack of institutional support, we pay for what we get. Referencing young coaches winning under their first p5 contract (who are subsequently getting $$$$) doesn't prove your point.

---

We are overpaying for Justin Wilcox.

Coaches who have achieved something get paid. The people above him have had Top 20 seasons or better. The people below him have too.

If DeBoer (or Wilcox) took us to the National Championship Game you can bet Cal donors would put up money to give a significant raise.

We are overpaying for Justin Wilcox. Instead of renewing his contract and giving him a raise we could have hired DeBoer or Fisch.

At #40 Wilcox is in the top third of FBS coaches in pay. Take away all the coaches of the much higher revenue B1G and SEC teams and he is in the Top 10?

We are grossly overpaying for Justin Wilcox. We don't have Justin Wilcox because that is all we can afford, that is absurd, we could have afforded DeBoer or Fisch. It is who we are spending our money on that is the problem.

Your suggesting Stanford hired Troy Taylor away from Sac Stare where he made a few hundred thousand and is paying him anything close to what they were paying David Shaw AFTER taking them to three Rose Bowls shows you have no grasp of the economics. David Shaw did not start at a salary anywhere near $9 million. You get those kinds of raises with big results. Just like DeBoer is now getting.

What has Wilcox accomplished to get the raises and extensions he has received? Nothing. THAT is our problem. Extending a losing coach and giving him raises.

Do you honestly think that if Cal paid Justin Wilcox $20 million it would make us better? We would just be overpaying Wilcox by even more.

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Deion has not had a top 25 FBS season, nor has Dillingham, nor has Dickert.

Take away all the other FBS coaches and Wilxox is the top paid coach in the land of coach Narnia!

Of course if we strike lightning, we could get the right up and comer who can give us a great season. The skeptic in me, however, sees the fact that Dykes didn't succeed here and then took a team to the National Championship. Given that fact and Tedford's burnout, the most sought after coaches don't want to come here.

I am not suggesting Troy Taylor makes 9 million a year. If I was, I would have put him above #7/#40 Wilcox in my list. Nice Strawman. This is a good time to point out, however, that some private school coaches aren't on the list, so #40 could be closer to #50 highest paid.

Wilcox has kept our program respectable, with us occasionally finishing in Others Receiving Votes. We were #14 before Garbers injury. That is the best we have done, which isn't much besides keep us respectable.

Again Strawman. Nobody believes that paying Wilcox more makes him better. I do, however, believe that Wilcox would be finishing in the top 25 if he were at Oregon. He probably isn't as good as Lanning, but we don't really know because he coaches at a school that played a harder schedule with a fraction of their football budget.

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"Kept us respectable?" Over the seven years he has been our coach, what PAC-12 school had a worse record? We almost got relegated like WSU and OSU who had good football teams but subpar academics.
If your argument is that at least he wins a few conference games and beats FCS teams and patsies, I do agree, it could be worse.

Wilcox is better at his job than Knowlton is at his and at least I like Wilcox, but he was miscast as a head coach at this level which he has demonstrated over the last 7 years. He should not have been extended, but that was Knowlton's incompetence.

I can only pray UW shares your high opinion of Wilcox (and low opinion of Cal) and hires him away from us. UW thought the exact same thing when they hired Gilbertson after we fired him despite doing better at Cal than Wilcox has and we saw how that turned out. No, it was not Top 25, He did even worse at UW than he did at Cal 6-6 then 1-10.

Meanwhile Tedford was a hair away from an undefeated regular season (and potential National Championship) at Cal. And that was before we put half a billion dollars into our facilities.

Within a certain level (ie the PAC-12 North) it isn't the school so much as the coach (and the AD who hires and fires cosches). NIL changes the calculus, and we are doing well there, but you still need good or great coaching. Coaches that can only deliver subpar results are not worth spending on. Everywhere else a coach like that is terminated and the school tries again.

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Respectable means winning enough and not having any team drama as to embarrass the university. UW wants to be more than this definition of respectable. They hired Fisch away from AZ, paying 7.75 million per year for 7 years.

oski003 said:

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Nobody believes that paying Wilcox more makes him better. I do, however, believe that Wilcox would be finishing in the top 25 if he were at Oregon

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Respectable? He has never had a winning season in conference in 7 years! Not one! He can't recruit.

He has won 33% of his conference games. That is not respectable no freaking way man.