Don't know what the problem is with Ott, but his stats are way behind those of Thomas. Is he still injured? Must admit the blocking for him was not nearly as good as it was for Thomas last night vs. Wake Forest.

https://calbears.com/sports/football/stats

Gobears49 said:

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Don't know what the problem is with Ott, but his stats are way behind those of Thomas. Is he still injured? Must admit the blocking for him was not nearly as good as it was for Thomas last night vs. Wake Forest.

https://calbears.com/sports/football/stats

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Just start Thomas. Idont know what is wrong with Ott but he will probably leave anyway.

Ott is lauded for his patience, but I think that sometimes is his undoing. Ott is likely our best up the middle back, but he needs to hit the hole with more speed, rather than wait for something that isn't going to materialize with this OL. In contrast, the Jet has one speed. He happens to be our best option on the edges and it shows. Where I think we need to utilize Ott more is RB screens and getting him out in space on the run.

Mostly agree but something else is going on. One of the QC guys has to review everything about Ott carries. Teams know when Ott is going to get the ball. Either our play-calling, substitutions or pre-snap setup is the "tell". His runs are getting destroyed before he gets out of the backfield. Earlier in the year I just hoped he could gain a yard. Now I hope he doesn't lose yards.

I agree, something is off when Ott gets the ball. Yesterday, he had 1 carry for 19, then 13 more carries that gained 4 yds total. Unbelievable when you recall last season. ITOH, if we observe that teams are stacking up against him when he's in there, we should be able to use him as a decoy. But we don't, we just give him the ball up the middle and hope for the best. That isn't working.

Ott needs to become the 3rd down back. He's a better pass catcher and blocker than Jet

Jet is much more productive with the same OL. Granted Ott's been hurt but….

I don't think Ott has been right since he got injured in the first game. He can still do some things well, but he's not hitting the small creases quickly and because our blocking sucks he then gets swallowed up. Lack of pitchouts and plays to get him in space doesn't help either; we tried it once, got a holding penalty (play otherwise looked good), and then never again.

I tend to agree that he should be used as more of a scatback now, with Thomas as the between-the-tackles guy.

sycasey said:

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I don't think Ott has been right since he got injured in the first game. He can still do some things well, but he's not hitting the small creases quickly and because our blocking sucks he then gets swallowed up. Lack of pitchouts and plays to get him in space doesn't help either; we tried it once, got a holding penalty (play otherwise looked good), and then never again.

I tend to agree that he should be used as more of a scatback now, with Thomas as the between-the-tackles guy.

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I'm not sure that Ott is not doing as well as Thomas or that he has just been unlucky in getting worse blocking than Thomas him when it is Ott's turn to run the ball. Rooting for him to get back to his former scintilating self.

CALiforniALUM said:

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Ott is lauded for his patience, but I think that sometimes is his undoing. Ott is likely our best up the middle back, but he needs to hit the hole with more speed, rather than wait for something that isn't going to materialize with this OL. In contrast, the Jet has one speed. He happens to be our best option on the edges and it shows. Where I think we need to utilize Ott more is RB screens and getting him out in space on the run.

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Wheel route. Different from screen.

LarsBear74 said:

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I agree, something is off when Ott gets the ball. Yesterday, he had 1 carry for 19, then 13 more carries that gained 4 yds total. Unbelievable when you recall last season. ITOH, if we observe that teams are stacking up against him when he's in there, we should be able to use him as a decoy. But we don't, we just give him the ball up the middle and hope for the best. That isn't working.

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I agree: iMO. 1. The other team expects Ott to get the Bsll
2. Ott in fact gets the ball
3. The play called all too frequently is a run up the middle with no credible blocking

GivemTheAxe said:

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LarsBear74 said:

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I agree, something is off when Ott gets the ball. Yesterday, he had 1 carry for 19, then 13 more carries that gained 4 yds total. Unbelievable when you recall last season. ITOH, if we observe that teams are stacking up against him when he's in there, we should be able to use him as a decoy. But we don't, we just give him the ball up the middle and hope for the best. That isn't working.

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I agree: iMO. 1. The other team expects Ott to get the Bsll
2. Ott in fact gets the ball
3. The play called all too frequently is a run up the middle with no credible blocking

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They basically sold out to stop the run which was stupid since we have a good passing game

Agree with most. Most teams "spy" on the most used and talented running back. This can mean many things, but generally one of the LBers and/or down lineman moves in the same direction as the running back on the snap. The way Ott has been used off and on this season, it is fairly certain that he is going to get the ball or be involved in the play action.

72CalBear said:

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Agree with most. Most teams "spy" on the most used and talented running back. This can mean many things, but generally one of the LBers and/or down lineman moves in the same direction as the running back on the snap. The way Ott has been used off and on this season, it is fairly certain that he is going to get the ball or be involved in the play action.

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This is one reason why I really want to see Ott and Thomas in the same play with Jet in the slot or in motion. Start a play with a play action to Jaydn; the defense will respect that. This should open up Jet on the outside for a quick pass. Once the defense begins to key in on Jet, this should then allow Jaydn to gain some yards on the play action. An added wrinkle can running play action with Nando faking the handoff to Jaydn, the latter of whom then bumps a LB or DB behind the DL as if he's initiating a block (now that the defense has keyed in on Jet), only to then run by the defender and receive a pass from Nando.

01Bear said:

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72CalBear said:

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Agree with most. Most teams "spy" on the most used and talented running back. This can mean many things, but generally one of the LBers and/or down lineman moves in the same direction as the running back on the snap. The way Ott has been used off and on this season, it is fairly certain that he is going to get the ball or be involved in the play action.

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This is one reason why I really want to see Ott and Thomas in the same play with Jet in the slot or in motion. Start a play with a play action to Jaydn; the defense will respect that. This should open up Jet on the outside for a quick pass. Once the defense begins to key in on Jet, this should then allow Jaydn to gain some yards on the play action. An added wrinkle can running play action with Nando faking the handoff to Jaydn, the latter of whom then bumps a LB or DB behind the DL as if he's initiating a block (now that the defense has keyed in on Jet), only to then run by the defender and receive a pass from Nando.

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There was at least one attempt at your latter play suggestion that I saw in the Wake game. Ott, went up the middle, I suspect to be a receiving target, but the blocking was insufficient and Mendoza was sacked.

nwbear84 said:

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01Bear said:

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72CalBear said:

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Agree with most. Most teams "spy" on the most used and talented running back. This can mean many things, but generally one of the LBers and/or down lineman moves in the same direction as the running back on the snap. The way Ott has been used off and on this season, it is fairly certain that he is going to get the ball or be involved in the play action.

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This is one reason why I really want to see Ott and Thomas in the same play with Jet in the slot or in motion. Start a play with a play action to Jaydn; the defense will respect that. This should open up Jet on the outside for a quick pass. Once the defense begins to key in on Jet, this should then allow Jaydn to gain some yards on the play action. An added wrinkle can running play action with Nando faking the handoff to Jaydn, the latter of whom then bumps a LB or DB behind the DL as if he's initiating a block (now that the defense has keyed in on Jet), only to then run by the defender and receive a pass from Nando.

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There was at least one attempt at your latter play suggestion that I saw in the Wake game. Ott, went up the middle, I suspect to be a receiving target, but the blocking was insufficient and Mendoza was sacked.

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Do you remember when that play took place, I'll need to rewatch the game to see how Bloesch tried to implement that play.

01Bear said:

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nwbear84 said:

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01Bear said:

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72CalBear said:

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Agree with most. Most teams "spy" on the most used and talented running back. This can mean many things, but generally one of the LBers and/or down lineman moves in the same direction as the running back on the snap. The way Ott has been used off and on this season, it is fairly certain that he is going to get the ball or be involved in the play action.

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This is one reason why I really want to see Ott and Thomas in the same play with Jet in the slot or in motion. Start a play with a play action to Jaydn; the defense will respect that. This should open up Jet on the outside for a quick pass. Once the defense begins to key in on Jet, this should then allow Jaydn to gain some yards on the play action. An added wrinkle can running play action with Nando faking the handoff to Jaydn, the latter of whom then bumps a LB or DB behind the DL as if he's initiating a block (now that the defense has keyed in on Jet), only to then run by the defender and receive a pass from Nando.

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There was at least one attempt at your latter play suggestion that I saw in the Wake game. Ott, went up the middle, I suspect to be a receiving target, but the blocking was insufficient and Mendoza was sacked.

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Do you remember when that play took place, I'll need to rewatch the game to see how Bloesch tried to implement that play.

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I have the game recorded and will see if I can find it..... assuming, I'm not misremembering!

I also recall us doing two back formation sometime earlier in the season with the intent of doing something similar. I don't remember which game though.

I don't think it's something you can bring in on every down.

eastbayyoungbear said:

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I also recall us doing two back formation sometime earlier in the season with the intent of doing something similar. I don't remember which game though.

I don't think it's something you can bring in on every down.

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FWIW, I'm not thinking of running a two back formation. I want Jet in the slot or in motion (for a wheel route). I want to put Jet in space. He's quick and fast; he's hard to bring down in open space. (TBH, the same holds true for a healthy Jaydn, but defenses expect Jaydn to run in to the middle of the line and get stopped for no gain on 1st and 2nd downs.) If Cal runs a play action, it should suck outside line backer into the box, this can free up a passing window for Jet in the slot.

That said, I agree that this should not be an every down play, but it is something that should be run multiple times a game. Maybe on 2nd and 3rd downs. Or maybe really design it as a 1st or 2nd down play since opposing defenses expect Ott to run up the middle on 1st and 2nd downs when Cal has a lead. Why not let lean into that expectation and then hit them with the Jet wrinkle? Once they key in on stopping both Jet and Jaydn, that should free up Endries for a quick strike just at or behind the LB level.

Additionally, this may free up our WRs, especially the burners as the safeties start focusing on stopping the short yardage passes. I'd love to see Nyziah Hunter, Kyion Grayes, or Tobias Merriweather (as the X and Z receivers) go over the top and get a TD in one-on-one coverage. Heck, the play could even be run without Jet in the slot if we use all three of the above-named receivers and Endries (or whichever TE is playing that day) and have one of them run the wheel route or be the slot receiver. I mean, if Hunter is in the slot with Merriweather and Grayes at the X and Z receivers with Endries at TE (on the same side as Y and Z) that would likely mean the X receiver (either Merriweather or Grayes) will be single-covered. Play action with Ott (or even Jet in lieu of Jaydn) starts the play, X gets separation in single-coverage and runs a quick and short dig route (for short yardage situations) while Y runs a flat route and Z runs a quick out route while the TE does a quick block on a blitzling DB or OLB and runs to a soft spot in the zone behind the defender as an additional receiver. All of this can be run in under two seconds, which is about as much time as Nando has been able to stand in the pocket before getting creamed. If Nando scrambles to the strong side, that could gain him a little more time to make a short toss to the TE, the Y, or the Z receivers (and this would allow the flat route to become a wheel route and/or the quick out route to become an out route).

That said, I'd really prefer to put Cal's proven playmakers on the field at the same time. That means I'd prefer to see Ott and Thomas playing at the same time.

Ultimately, I'm thinking of this as a set of plays that can be run from the same formation and pulled out several times a game. It doesn't have to be (and shouldn't be) the base offense. But it should be a formation that is trotted out regularly. Once defenses start keying on the passing attack, this should open up the middle for Jaydn (or Jet) to gain yardage on the ground from the same formation. Of course, this is all predicated on the idea that Cal's front five can stop a three or four man rush. Otherwise, the defense can fill the passing lanes with extra DBs and LBs.

Cal players are smart and quick; they can take advantage of over-aggressive defenses. The coaching staff should take advantage of that and include more misdirection plays to keep drives alive (especially when Cal has a lead). Instead, the coaching staff treats Cal players like meatheads who can only keep one thought in mind and that's to run the ball up the middle (even though Cal presently lacks the OL to do that well).

nwbear84 said:

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01Bear said:

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nwbear84 said:

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01Bear said:

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72CalBear said:

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Agree with most. Most teams "spy" on the most used and talented running back. This can mean many things, but generally one of the LBers and/or down lineman moves in the same direction as the running back on the snap. The way Ott has been used off and on this season, it is fairly certain that he is going to get the ball or be involved in the play action.

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This is one reason why I really want to see Ott and Thomas in the same play with Jet in the slot or in motion. Start a play with a play action to Jaydn; the defense will respect that. This should open up Jet on the outside for a quick pass. Once the defense begins to key in on Jet, this should then allow Jaydn to gain some yards on the play action. An added wrinkle can running play action with Nando faking the handoff to Jaydn, the latter of whom then bumps a LB or DB behind the DL as if he's initiating a block (now that the defense has keyed in on Jet), only to then run by the defender and receive a pass from Nando.

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There was at least one attempt at your latter play suggestion that I saw in the Wake game. Ott, went up the middle, I suspect to be a receiving target, but the blocking was insufficient and Mendoza was sacked.

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Do you remember when that play took place, I'll need to rewatch the game to see how Bloesch tried to implement that play.

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I have the game recorded and will see if I can find it..... assuming, I'm not misremembering!

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I looked through the game and didn't find the play I was looking for. I may have been incorrect about it resulting in a sack as I checked all the sack plays. I did see two or three plays where it was a play action with Ott going through the line instead of staying back to block. The pass went to one of the other receivers, but I am guessing Ott was one of the read progression options. The problem, not surprisingly, is Mendoza doesn't usually have time to go through progressions and has been getting the ball out very quickly.

Whether the pass goes to Ott or not, it probably does force a LB to stay with him.

CALiforniALUM said:

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Ott is lauded for his patience, but I think that sometimes is his undoing. Ott is likely our best up the middle back, but he needs to hit the hole with more speed, rather than wait for something that isn't going to materialize with this OL. In contrast, the Jet has one speed. He happens to be our best option on the edges and it shows. Where I think we need to utilize Ott more is RB screens and getting him out in space on the run.

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Ott doesn't have the body for an inside runner in my opinion. He's a sprinter, not a pounder.
Now then, I don't even know his dimensions, but he looks way overhyped.

concordtom said:

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CALiforniALUM said:

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Ott is lauded for his patience, but I think that sometimes is his undoing. Ott is likely our best up the middle back, but he needs to hit the hole with more speed, rather than wait for something that isn't going to materialize with this OL. In contrast, the Jet has one speed. He happens to be our best option on the edges and it shows. Where I think we need to utilize Ott more is RB screens and getting him out in space on the run.

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Ott doesn't have the body for an inside runner in my opinion. He's a sprinter, not a pounder.
Now then, I don't even know his dimensions, but he looks way overhyped.

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Ott lead the PAC-12 in rushing last year with 1,315 yards. His 1,484 total yards from scrimmage was the most for any Cal player since Jahvid Best in 2008.

His total this year? 169 yards rushing on 71 attempts. His few long runs started as inside runs that he bounced outside, subtract those and you see the futility as we run him into the line for almost zero gain over and over again until he got hurt, got healthy, and we started doing it again.

I agree regarding the praise of his patience. I think he may be leaning too much in that direction, particularly with how the OL has been performing. He needs to take what he can get rather than waiting (hoping?) for the line to open a lane for him.

nwbear84 said:

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I agree regarding the praise of his patience. I think he may be leaning too much in that direction, particularly with how the OL has been performing. He needs to take what he can get rather than waiting (hoping?) for the line to open a lane for him.

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He does both. Sometimes he plunges right in for a yard or two. His best is when he very quickly decides to sprint outside after just a step toward the line.

I rewatched the WF game and even replayed individual plays several times in slo mo (especially all of our run plays).

In my opinion, Ott is absolutely not being helped by the Oline. They aren't getting any push and they are opening few holes. With that said, there's way more yardage out there than Ott is actually getting.

I saw several plays where WF would basically pinch the middle and there was an opportunity for Ott to bounce the run outside where there was no WF defender. But instead he opted to just run straight into the line.

There were also several plays where he was being patient and the brief hole that existed simply evaporated.

There were other plays where he simply picked the wrong hole.

I'm not sure if it's not being 100% healthy, but a lot of Ott's issues look to be mental not physical. He's not as decisive as he was last year. And he's also making the wrong reads. I think he knows the Oline kinda sucks, so he's not trusting them to hold blocks so he's just picking the most conservative route (ie where the hole is designed to be) and running straight into where he's supposed to, whether there's an actual hole there or not. I also think the coaches are in his ear about just gaining positive yardage and not losing yardage. That's kinda what I'm seeing

What id like to see from him is just to be more decisive. Not be so patient cause the holes are going to close quick. He needs to plant his foot, make one decisive cut and just hit it hard. And if that hole isn't where it supposed to be, it's ok. Find the hole wherever it may be and just go for it. Freelance a little bit. You're still Jaydn Ott, he's gotta remember that and get his mojo back.

ducky23 said:

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he's just picking the most conservative route (ie where the hole is designed to be) and running straight into where he's supposed to, whether there's an actual hole there or not.

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Agree, but that's what the play is, really frustrating, all the way around, and also he seems to be standing tall, even when we give him the ball, it's almost like we were trying to play their mesh against them for a play or two.

rkt88edmo said:

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ducky23 said:

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he's just picking the most conservative route (ie where the hole is designed to be) and running straight into where he's supposed to, whether there's an actual hole there or not.

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Agree, but that's what the play is, really frustrating, all the way around, and also he seems to be standing tall, even when we give him the ball, it's almost like we were trying to play their mesh against them for a play or two.

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Yeah, who knows if he gets chewed out for not running the play as called?

To me I always assumed inside zone runs allow for the RB to cut to the outside if all the linebacks pinch inside, so I don't think he will be getting blasted by the coaches for not bouncing outside unless he is constantly losing more yards and or missing the read.

Joegeo said:

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To me I always assumed inside zone runs allow for the RB to cut to the outside if all the linebacks pinch inside, so I don't think he will be getting blasted by the coaches for not bouncing outside unless he is constantly losing more yards and or missing the read.

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Yeah, leave it to us to tell a future NFL running back where to run, how to anticipate, and when to bounce outside. He needs our advice!

Joegeo said:

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To me I always assumed inside zone runs allow for the RB to cut to the outside if all the linebacks pinch inside, so I don't think he will be getting blasted by the coaches for not bouncing outside unless he is constantly losing more yards and or missing the read.

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So he was a great 4 star prep recruit, and last year he lead the Pac-12 in rushing and had the most yards from scrimmage of any Cal player since Jahvid Best, then just forgot everything he knows about being a running back in the bowl game and the entire year after? Couldn't be that Bloesch, the OL coach, also just happened to become the OC at that time? Must be a great player suddenly screwing up 100 times in a row?

Besides shouldn't the coaches have corrected that mistake by now if he was not doing what they want him to do?

calumnus said:

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Joegeo said:

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To me I always assumed inside zone runs allow for the RB to cut to the outside if all the linebacks pinch inside, so I don't think he will be getting blasted by the coaches for not bouncing outside unless he is constantly losing more yards and or missing the read.

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So he was a great 4 star prep recruit, and last year he lead the Pac-12 in rushing and had the most yards from scrimmage of any Cal player since Jahvid Best, then just forgot everything he knows about being a running back in the bowl game and the entire year after? Couldn't be that Bloesch, the OL coach, also just happened to become the OC at that time? Must be a great player suddenly screwing up 100 times in a row?

Besides shouldn't the coaches have corrected that mistake by now if he was not doing what they want him to do?

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He got hurt.

oski003 said:

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calumnus said:

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Joegeo said:

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To me I always assumed inside zone runs allow for the RB to cut to the outside if all the linebacks pinch inside, so I don't think he will be getting blasted by the coaches for not bouncing outside unless he is constantly losing more yards and or missing the read.

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So he was a great 4 star prep recruit, and last year he lead the Pac-12 in rushing and had the most yards from scrimmage of any Cal player since Jahvid Best, then just forgot everything he knows about being a running back in the bowl game and the entire year after? Couldn't be that Bloesch, the OL coach, also just happened to become the OC at that time? Must be a great player suddenly screwing up 100 times in a row?

Besides shouldn't the coaches have corrected that mistake by now if he was not doing what they want him to do?

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He got hurt.

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His numbers were bad beginning in the bowl game when Bloesch took over. Nearly all of his runs since were inside runs. It is probably what lead to him getting hurt in the first place. On his very few long plays outside (mostly pass receptions) since he looked fast and healthy.

oski003 said:

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calumnus said:

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Joegeo said:

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To me I always assumed inside zone runs allow for the RB to cut to the outside if all the linebacks pinch inside, so I don't think he will be getting blasted by the coaches for not bouncing outside unless he is constantly losing more yards and or missing the read.

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So he was a great 4 star prep recruit, and last year he lead the Pac-12 in rushing and had the most yards from scrimmage of any Cal player since Jahvid Best, then just forgot everything he knows about being a running back in the bowl game and the entire year after? Couldn't be that Bloesch, the OL coach, also just happened to become the OC at that time? Must be a great player suddenly screwing up 100 times in a row?

Besides shouldn't the coaches have corrected that mistake by now if he was not doing what they want him to do?

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He got hurt.

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And there is a worse O-Line which will make any RB look worse.

calumnus said:

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Joegeo said:

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To me I always assumed inside zone runs allow for the RB to cut to the outside if all the linebacks pinch inside, so I don't think he will be getting blasted by the coaches for not bouncing outside unless he is constantly losing more yards and or missing the read.

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So he was a great 4 star prep recruit, and last year he lead the Pac-12 in rushing and had the most yards from scrimmage of any Cal player since Jahvid Best, then just forgot everything he knows about being a running back in the bowl game and the entire year after? Couldn't be that Bloesch, the OL coach, also just happened to become the OC at that time? Must be a great player suddenly screwing up 100 times in a row?

Besides shouldn't the coaches have corrected that mistake by now if he was not doing what they want him to do?

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It's obviously 90% poor oline play. No one is disputing that. However there are yards there that he's not getting.

I believe most of it are the coaches in his ear about not losing yards, so he doesn't feel like he can freelance as much. If you listen to Wilcox, he's absolutely terrified of negative yards in the run game (as he should be).

This also explains why you aren't seeing more outside runs, because of the fear of negative yardage.