Having just looked at the BI 2024 Football schedule link in the drop down menu, I'm VERY relieved. I'd been living in an alternate reality where Cal lost to Syracuse last Saturday. Now I see was mistaken and that we beat Syracuse and are already bowl eligible at 6-4. Fantastic!
Cal has to beat Stanford to have a 6 win year to go bowling.
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130 Replies |
Last: 1 yr ago by mbBear
Jason Eck.MrGPAC said:ducktilldeath said:Repeating an unprovable thing as an absolute is dumb.MrGPAC said:philly1121 said:
Hiring Ron Rivera as HC because he would work below market rate is not a reason to hire him. His record is mid. 3 winning seasons in 13. That's not someone I'm willing to give the keys to. Even if he's an alum.
What I am saying is that he is the only realistic option other than Wilcox until Knowlton gets canned.
I should have prefaced that this is absolutely opinion based. I am definitely open to other suggestions if you have any.
There is no war in Ba Sing SeEastern Oregon Bear said:
Having just looked at the BI 2024 Football schedule link in the drop down menu, I'm VERY relieved. I'd been living in an alternate reality where Cal lost to Syracuse last Saturday. Now I see was mistaken and that we beat Syracuse and are already bowl eligible at 6-4. Fantastic!
Well, let's look at this for a moment. Carrol was 6-10 as Jets coach. He was 27-21 with the Patriots. Didn't have a losing season with them. Then he goes to the USC. So - a small margin yes, but he had a winning record. And, he was at the Jets in 94. I repeat, the New York Jets. They suck. They sucked back then. They always will suck.southseasbear said:What was Pete Carrol's record in the NFL before USC hired him?philly1121 said:
Hiring Ron Rivera as HC because he would work below market rate is not a reason to hire him. His record is mid. 3 winning seasons in 13. That's not someone I'm willing to give the keys to. Even if he's an alum.
Let me help:
Jets 1994 6-10
Pats 1997 10-6
Pats 1998 9-7
Pats 1999 8-8
----------------------
Total 33-31
Carrol's body of work in the NFL before he went to college I think speaks for itself. And he's the only coach I know (recent memory) that was good in the pros, great in college, and great in the pros again. Rivera had 13 years in the pros and made it work 3 times. Maybe he would be good in college. But is that a risk we want to take with the way things are now? We dial in two more 6 win seasons, we will be in serious trouble. And if we get another coach and lose again - we will be on life support.
The idea of picking another hc before replacing the ad is unthinkable. Knowlton HAS to go right now. Then, the new ad must have the freedom to pick his own hc. otherwise, how could we ever hold HIM accountable. If Knowlton brings in Rivera, say, we're open to still another bad call by him. It looks like the only thing he's done right is Madden, and the jury is still rightfully out on him.philly1121 said:Well, let's look at this for a moment. Carrol was 6-10 as Jets coach. He was 27-21 with the Patriots. Didn't have a losing season with them. Then he goes to the USC. So - a small margin yes, but he had a winning record. And, he was at the Jets in 94. I repeat, the New York Jets. They suck. They sucked back then. They always will suck.southseasbear said:What was Pete Carrol's record in the NFL before USC hired him?philly1121 said:
Hiring Ron Rivera as HC because he would work below market rate is not a reason to hire him. His record is mid. 3 winning seasons in 13. That's not someone I'm willing to give the keys to. Even if he's an alum.
Let me help:
Jets 1994 6-10
Pats 1997 10-6
Pats 1998 9-7
Pats 1999 8-8
----------------------
Total 33-31
Carrol's body of work in the NFL before he went to college I think speaks for itself. And he's the only coach I know (recent memory) that was good in the pros, great in college, and great in the pros again. Rivera had 13 years in the pros and made it work 3 times. Maybe he would be good in college. But is that a risk we want to take with the way things are now? We dial in two more 6 win seasons, we will be in serious trouble. And if we get another coach and lose again - we will be on life support.
And, we must be free to ask, Rivera compared to who else?
Are they all clear of the swim coach fiasco?
It's been quiet. Maybe they're hoping it will go away, although I don't see how you keep on someone like that. and, the handling of it seems like the perfect chance to clean house. First, the ad.movielover said:
Are they all clear of the swim coach fiasco?
Rushinbear said:The idea of picking another hc before replacing the ad is unthinkable. Knowlton HAS to go right now. Then, the new ad must have the freedom to pick his own hc. otherwise, how could we ever hold HIM accountable. If Knowlton brings in Rivera, say, we're open to still another bad call by him. It looks like the only thing he's done right is Madden, and the jury is still rightfully out on him.philly1121 said:Well, let's look at this for a moment. Carrol was 6-10 as Jets coach. He was 27-21 with the Patriots. Didn't have a losing season with them. Then he goes to the USC. So - a small margin yes, but he had a winning record. And, he was at the Jets in 94. I repeat, the New York Jets. They suck. They sucked back then. They always will suck.southseasbear said:What was Pete Carrol's record in the NFL before USC hired him?philly1121 said:
Hiring Ron Rivera as HC because he would work below market rate is not a reason to hire him. His record is mid. 3 winning seasons in 13. That's not someone I'm willing to give the keys to. Even if he's an alum.
Let me help:
Jets 1994 6-10
Pats 1997 10-6
Pats 1998 9-7
Pats 1999 8-8
----------------------
Total 33-31
Carrol's body of work in the NFL before he went to college I think speaks for itself. And he's the only coach I know (recent memory) that was good in the pros, great in college, and great in the pros again. Rivera had 13 years in the pros and made it work 3 times. Maybe he would be good in college. But is that a risk we want to take with the way things are now? We dial in two more 6 win seasons, we will be in serious trouble. And if we get another coach and lose again - we will be on life support.
And, we must be free to ask, Rivera compared to who else?
The season ends in a month, maybe sooner. There is no time left to fire Knowlton, get the new person in, fire Wilcox and have them do a proper search while all the top up and coming prospects are still available (ie not repeat the mistake with firing Dykes/hiring Wilcox). That is why it was disappointing Lyons didn't replace Knowlton in August.
At this point, Rivera is the only candidate that could be agreed upon and foisted onto Knowlton by the boosters with Lyons' assent in time for a strong recruiting class (Sagapolutele) and be in place for next year. Rivera is the only option other than Wilcox coaching next year or spending $15 million to fire Wilcox and have Knowlton do the hiring.
We are running out of time. 2024 and 2025 are/were our big opportunities to break through using the weak schedule on our new national stage.
People may quibble over Rivera's NFL record, and any coaching hire is a gamble, but the question is who would you rather have as Cal's coach for 2025? Rivera or Wilcox? Between the two, who will best excite fans, recruits, donors, and the national media? Who will give us a chance at having a better staff? Because until Knowlton is gone, those are really our only realistic choices.
Any decent, experienced ad will know which coaches are looking or are recruitable and which ones would be good for our program. In fact, being a business type guy, I would bet that Lyons knows this - it's how the business world works, too. It's just that our chancellors have not wanted a competent ad like that - going back to when Mike White overspent and Mags canned him.calumnus said:Rushinbear said:The idea of picking another hc before replacing the ad is unthinkable. Knowlton HAS to go right now. Then, the new ad must have the freedom to pick his own hc. otherwise, how could we ever hold HIM accountable. If Knowlton brings in Rivera, say, we're open to still another bad call by him. It looks like the only thing he's done right is Madden, and the jury is still rightfully out on him.philly1121 said:Well, let's look at this for a moment. Carrol was 6-10 as Jets coach. He was 27-21 with the Patriots. Didn't have a losing season with them. Then he goes to the USC. So - a small margin yes, but he had a winning record. And, he was at the Jets in 94. I repeat, the New York Jets. They suck. They sucked back then. They always will suck.southseasbear said:What was Pete Carrol's record in the NFL before USC hired him?philly1121 said:
Hiring Ron Rivera as HC because he would work below market rate is not a reason to hire him. His record is mid. 3 winning seasons in 13. That's not someone I'm willing to give the keys to. Even if he's an alum.
Let me help:
Jets 1994 6-10
Pats 1997 10-6
Pats 1998 9-7
Pats 1999 8-8
----------------------
Total 33-31
Carrol's body of work in the NFL before he went to college I think speaks for itself. And he's the only coach I know (recent memory) that was good in the pros, great in college, and great in the pros again. Rivera had 13 years in the pros and made it work 3 times. Maybe he would be good in college. But is that a risk we want to take with the way things are now? We dial in two more 6 win seasons, we will be in serious trouble. And if we get another coach and lose again - we will be on life support.
And, we must be free to ask, Rivera compared to who else?
The season ends in a month, maybe sooner. There is no time left to fire Knowlton, get the new person in, fire Wilcox and have them do a proper search while all the top up and coming prospects are still available (ie not repeat the mistake with firing Dykes/hiring Wilcox). That is why it was disappointing Lyons didn't replace Knowlton in August.
At this point, Rivera is the only candidate that could be agreed upon and foisted onto Knowlton by the boosters with Lyons' assent in time for a strong recruiting class (Sagapolutele) and be in place for next year. Rivera is the only option other than Wilcox coaching next year or spending $15 million to fire Wilcox and have Knowlton do the hiring.
We are running out of time. 2024 and 2025 are/were our big opportunities to break through using the weak schedule on our new national stage.
People may quibble over Rivera's NFL record, and any coaching hire is a gamble, but the question is who would you rather have as Cal's coach for 2025? Rivera or Wilcox? Between the two, who will best excite fans, recruits, donors, and the national media? Who will give us a chance at having a better staff? Because until Knowlton is gone, those are really our only realistic choices.
Rushinbear said:Any decent, experienced ad will know which coaches are looking or are recruitable and which ones would be good for our program. In fact, being a business type guy, I would bet that Lyons knows this - it's how the business world works, too. It's just that our chancellors have not wanted a competent ad like that - going back to when Mike White overspent and Mags canned him.calumnus said:Rushinbear said:The idea of picking another hc before replacing the ad is unthinkable. Knowlton HAS to go right now. Then, the new ad must have the freedom to pick his own hc. otherwise, how could we ever hold HIM accountable. If Knowlton brings in Rivera, say, we're open to still another bad call by him. It looks like the only thing he's done right is Madden, and the jury is still rightfully out on him.philly1121 said:Well, let's look at this for a moment. Carrol was 6-10 as Jets coach. He was 27-21 with the Patriots. Didn't have a losing season with them. Then he goes to the USC. So - a small margin yes, but he had a winning record. And, he was at the Jets in 94. I repeat, the New York Jets. They suck. They sucked back then. They always will suck.southseasbear said:What was Pete Carrol's record in the NFL before USC hired him?philly1121 said:
Hiring Ron Rivera as HC because he would work below market rate is not a reason to hire him. His record is mid. 3 winning seasons in 13. That's not someone I'm willing to give the keys to. Even if he's an alum.
Let me help:
Jets 1994 6-10
Pats 1997 10-6
Pats 1998 9-7
Pats 1999 8-8
----------------------
Total 33-31
Carrol's body of work in the NFL before he went to college I think speaks for itself. And he's the only coach I know (recent memory) that was good in the pros, great in college, and great in the pros again. Rivera had 13 years in the pros and made it work 3 times. Maybe he would be good in college. But is that a risk we want to take with the way things are now? We dial in two more 6 win seasons, we will be in serious trouble. And if we get another coach and lose again - we will be on life support.
And, we must be free to ask, Rivera compared to who else?
The season ends in a month, maybe sooner. There is no time left to fire Knowlton, get the new person in, fire Wilcox and have them do a proper search while all the top up and coming prospects are still available (ie not repeat the mistake with firing Dykes/hiring Wilcox). That is why it was disappointing Lyons didn't replace Knowlton in August.
At this point, Rivera is the only candidate that could be agreed upon and foisted onto Knowlton by the boosters with Lyons' assent in time for a strong recruiting class (Sagapolutele) and be in place for next year. Rivera is the only option other than Wilcox coaching next year or spending $15 million to fire Wilcox and have Knowlton do the hiring.
We are running out of time. 2024 and 2025 are/were our big opportunities to break through using the weak schedule on our new national stage.
People may quibble over Rivera's NFL record, and any coaching hire is a gamble, but the question is who would you rather have as Cal's coach for 2025? Rivera or Wilcox? Between the two, who will best excite fans, recruits, donors, and the national media? Who will give us a chance at having a better staff? Because until Knowlton is gone, those are really our only realistic choices.
It is highly unrealistic to think we are firing Knowlton and getting an experienced AD who would immediately fire Wilcox and hire someone new all in the next month. And given our budget issues our best hope would be taking a big risk on an up and comer (maybe Marion, the OC at UNLV?).
Makes much more sense to hire Rivera, because that would make a big splash, impress recruits, the media and donors and he could hire someone like Marion at OC and set him up as a possible successor (to be decided by the next AD).
Otherwise it is at least another year of Wilcox.
bearsandgiants said:
I think that while Big Game used to mean more when the college experience meant more, if we can pull this alumni thing off with all of the greats, and make it an annual thing, the players will be pumped every year, whether they grew up watching Cal or just transferred here last year. Our legacy of greatness sells, and we should lean into it. This Saturday has the potential to be truly special, and memorable.
Tell us more about this "legacy of greatness" of which you speak...
Cal_79 said:bearsandgiants said:
I think that while Big Game used to mean more when the college experience meant more, if we can pull this alumni thing off with all of the greats, and make it an annual thing, the players will be pumped every year, whether they grew up watching Cal or just transferred here last year. Our legacy of greatness sells, and we should lean into it. This Saturday has the potential to be truly special, and memorable.
Tell us more about this "legacy of greatness" of which you speak...
Goff, Rodgers, Lynch, Mack, Jackson, Gonzales, Allen, Longwell, Alu Alu, Jordan, Asomugha, and those are in recent decades.
Happy Big Game week @Caltrain!
— BART (@SFBART) November 21, 2024
Remember to take BART to the game, sports fans!
The 127th Big Game is Saturday, Nov. 23 at 12:30 p.m. PT.#GoBears pic.twitter.com/TaJateGgMt
Two trains that will crash into each other soon. What great optics to draw customers.okaydo said:Happy Big Game week @Caltrain!
— BART (@SFBART) November 21, 2024
Remember to take BART to the game, sports fans!
The 127th Big Game is Saturday, Nov. 23 at 12:30 p.m. PT.#GoBears pic.twitter.com/TaJateGgMt
Assuming we're stuck with Wilcox for another year, I'd like to see Cal try to poach Troy Taylor for the 2026 season. By 2026, he and Stanfurd may be sick of each other. Anybody who saw what a lousy team Sac St. had FOR YEARS prior to Taylor taking over and how they seem to be reverting to form (3-8 this season) knows that Taylor was the reason for their success. Maybe Cal's alumni whales can come up with the $$ to make this happen.calumnus said:Rushinbear said:Any decent, experienced ad will know which coaches are looking or are recruitable and which ones would be good for our program. In fact, being a business type guy, I would bet that Lyons knows this - it's how the business world works, too. It's just that our chancellors have not wanted a competent ad like that - going back to when Mike White overspent and Mags canned him.calumnus said:Rushinbear said:The idea of picking another hc before replacing the ad is unthinkable. Knowlton HAS to go right now. Then, the new ad must have the freedom to pick his own hc. otherwise, how could we ever hold HIM accountable. If Knowlton brings in Rivera, say, we're open to still another bad call by him. It looks like the only thing he's done right is Madden, and the jury is still rightfully out on him.philly1121 said:Well, let's look at this for a moment. Carrol was 6-10 as Jets coach. He was 27-21 with the Patriots. Didn't have a losing season with them. Then he goes to the USC. So - a small margin yes, but he had a winning record. And, he was at the Jets in 94. I repeat, the New York Jets. They suck. They sucked back then. They always will suck.southseasbear said:What was Pete Carrol's record in the NFL before USC hired him?philly1121 said:
Hiring Ron Rivera as HC because he would work below market rate is not a reason to hire him. His record is mid. 3 winning seasons in 13. That's not someone I'm willing to give the keys to. Even if he's an alum.
Let me help:
Jets 1994 6-10
Pats 1997 10-6
Pats 1998 9-7
Pats 1999 8-8
----------------------
Total 33-31
Carrol's body of work in the NFL before he went to college I think speaks for itself. And he's the only coach I know (recent memory) that was good in the pros, great in college, and great in the pros again. Rivera had 13 years in the pros and made it work 3 times. Maybe he would be good in college. But is that a risk we want to take with the way things are now? We dial in two more 6 win seasons, we will be in serious trouble. And if we get another coach and lose again - we will be on life support.
And, we must be free to ask, Rivera compared to who else?
The season ends in a month, maybe sooner. There is no time left to fire Knowlton, get the new person in, fire Wilcox and have them do a proper search while all the top up and coming prospects are still available (ie not repeat the mistake with firing Dykes/hiring Wilcox). That is why it was disappointing Lyons didn't replace Knowlton in August.
At this point, Rivera is the only candidate that could be agreed upon and foisted onto Knowlton by the boosters with Lyons' assent in time for a strong recruiting class (Sagapolutele) and be in place for next year. Rivera is the only option other than Wilcox coaching next year or spending $15 million to fire Wilcox and have Knowlton do the hiring.
We are running out of time. 2024 and 2025 are/were our big opportunities to break through using the weak schedule on our new national stage.
People may quibble over Rivera's NFL record, and any coaching hire is a gamble, but the question is who would you rather have as Cal's coach for 2025? Rivera or Wilcox? Between the two, who will best excite fans, recruits, donors, and the national media? Who will give us a chance at having a better staff? Because until Knowlton is gone, those are really our only realistic choices.
It is highly unrealistic to think we are firing Knowlton and getting an experienced AD who would immediately fire Wilcox and hire someone new all in the next month. And given our budget issues our best hope would be taking a big risk on an up and comer (maybe Marion, the OC at UNLV?).
Makes much more sense to hire Rivera, because that would make a big splash, impress recruits, the media and donors and he could hire someone like Marion at OC and set him up as a possible successor (to be decided by the next AD).
Otherwise it is at least another year of Wilcox.
bearsandgiants said:Cal_79 said:bearsandgiants said:
I think that while Big Game used to mean more when the college experience meant more, if we can pull this alumni thing off with all of the greats, and make it an annual thing, the players will be pumped every year, whether they grew up watching Cal or just transferred here last year. Our legacy of greatness sells, and we should lean into it. This Saturday has the potential to be truly special, and memorable.
Tell us more about this "legacy of greatness" of which you speak...
Goff, Rodgers, Lynch, Mack, Jackson, Gonzales, Allen, Longwell, Alu Alu, Jordan, Asomugha, and those are in recent decades.
The Bears have certainly had great players. What immediately popped into my mind, when reflecting on a legacy of success, is the lack of team success through the years... Appreciate the reminder.
How is it great players have not resulted in great teams?
HearstMining said:Assuming we're stuck with Wilcox for another year, I'd like to see Cal try to poach Troy Taylor for the 2026 season. By 2026, he and Stanfurd may be sick of each other. Anybody who saw what a lousy team Sac St. had FOR YEARS prior to Taylor taking over and how they seem to be reverting to form (3-8 this season) knows that Taylor was the reason for their success. Maybe Cal's alumni whales can come up with the $$ to make this happen.calumnus said:Rushinbear said:Any decent, experienced ad will know which coaches are looking or are recruitable and which ones would be good for our program. In fact, being a business type guy, I would bet that Lyons knows this - it's how the business world works, too. It's just that our chancellors have not wanted a competent ad like that - going back to when Mike White overspent and Mags canned him.calumnus said:Rushinbear said:The idea of picking another hc before replacing the ad is unthinkable. Knowlton HAS to go right now. Then, the new ad must have the freedom to pick his own hc. otherwise, how could we ever hold HIM accountable. If Knowlton brings in Rivera, say, we're open to still another bad call by him. It looks like the only thing he's done right is Madden, and the jury is still rightfully out on him.philly1121 said:Well, let's look at this for a moment. Carrol was 6-10 as Jets coach. He was 27-21 with the Patriots. Didn't have a losing season with them. Then he goes to the USC. So - a small margin yes, but he had a winning record. And, he was at the Jets in 94. I repeat, the New York Jets. They suck. They sucked back then. They always will suck.southseasbear said:What was Pete Carrol's record in the NFL before USC hired him?philly1121 said:
Hiring Ron Rivera as HC because he would work below market rate is not a reason to hire him. His record is mid. 3 winning seasons in 13. That's not someone I'm willing to give the keys to. Even if he's an alum.
Let me help:
Jets 1994 6-10
Pats 1997 10-6
Pats 1998 9-7
Pats 1999 8-8
----------------------
Total 33-31
Carrol's body of work in the NFL before he went to college I think speaks for itself. And he's the only coach I know (recent memory) that was good in the pros, great in college, and great in the pros again. Rivera had 13 years in the pros and made it work 3 times. Maybe he would be good in college. But is that a risk we want to take with the way things are now? We dial in two more 6 win seasons, we will be in serious trouble. And if we get another coach and lose again - we will be on life support.
And, we must be free to ask, Rivera compared to who else?
The season ends in a month, maybe sooner. There is no time left to fire Knowlton, get the new person in, fire Wilcox and have them do a proper search while all the top up and coming prospects are still available (ie not repeat the mistake with firing Dykes/hiring Wilcox). That is why it was disappointing Lyons didn't replace Knowlton in August.
At this point, Rivera is the only candidate that could be agreed upon and foisted onto Knowlton by the boosters with Lyons' assent in time for a strong recruiting class (Sagapolutele) and be in place for next year. Rivera is the only option other than Wilcox coaching next year or spending $15 million to fire Wilcox and have Knowlton do the hiring.
We are running out of time. 2024 and 2025 are/were our big opportunities to break through using the weak schedule on our new national stage.
People may quibble over Rivera's NFL record, and any coaching hire is a gamble, but the question is who would you rather have as Cal's coach for 2025? Rivera or Wilcox? Between the two, who will best excite fans, recruits, donors, and the national media? Who will give us a chance at having a better staff? Because until Knowlton is gone, those are really our only realistic choices.
It is highly unrealistic to think we are firing Knowlton and getting an experienced AD who would immediately fire Wilcox and hire someone new all in the next month. And given our budget issues our best hope would be taking a big risk on an up and comer (maybe Marion, the OC at UNLV?).
Makes much more sense to hire Rivera, because that would make a big splash, impress recruits, the media and donors and he could hire someone like Marion at OC and set him up as a possible successor (to be decided by the next AD).
Otherwise it is at least another year of Wilcox.
We want to poach a coach from a 3-8 team? Jimminy crickets!
Troy Taylor isn't leaving the cozy confines of a well funded, private university that doesn't need community or university support to keep his job. And Stanfurd fans could care less about football success as has been seen since Shaw left and no one complains. His lack of success this season means nothing to their fans and he can rest easy on the farm for as long as he likes.oski003 said:HearstMining said:Assuming we're stuck with Wilcox for another year, I'd like to see Cal try to poach Troy Taylor for the 2026 season. By 2026, he and Stanfurd may be sick of each other. Anybody who saw what a lousy team Sac St. had FOR YEARS prior to Taylor taking over and how they seem to be reverting to form (3-8 this season) knows that Taylor was the reason for their success. Maybe Cal's alumni whales can come up with the $$ to make this happen.calumnus said:Rushinbear said:Any decent, experienced ad will know which coaches are looking or are recruitable and which ones would be good for our program. In fact, being a business type guy, I would bet that Lyons knows this - it's how the business world works, too. It's just that our chancellors have not wanted a competent ad like that - going back to when Mike White overspent and Mags canned him.calumnus said:Rushinbear said:The idea of picking another hc before replacing the ad is unthinkable. Knowlton HAS to go right now. Then, the new ad must have the freedom to pick his own hc. otherwise, how could we ever hold HIM accountable. If Knowlton brings in Rivera, say, we're open to still another bad call by him. It looks like the only thing he's done right is Madden, and the jury is still rightfully out on him.philly1121 said:Well, let's look at this for a moment. Carrol was 6-10 as Jets coach. He was 27-21 with the Patriots. Didn't have a losing season with them. Then he goes to the USC. So - a small margin yes, but he had a winning record. And, he was at the Jets in 94. I repeat, the New York Jets. They suck. They sucked back then. They always will suck.southseasbear said:What was Pete Carrol's record in the NFL before USC hired him?philly1121 said:
Hiring Ron Rivera as HC because he would work below market rate is not a reason to hire him. His record is mid. 3 winning seasons in 13. That's not someone I'm willing to give the keys to. Even if he's an alum.
Let me help:
Jets 1994 6-10
Pats 1997 10-6
Pats 1998 9-7
Pats 1999 8-8
----------------------
Total 33-31
Carrol's body of work in the NFL before he went to college I think speaks for itself. And he's the only coach I know (recent memory) that was good in the pros, great in college, and great in the pros again. Rivera had 13 years in the pros and made it work 3 times. Maybe he would be good in college. But is that a risk we want to take with the way things are now? We dial in two more 6 win seasons, we will be in serious trouble. And if we get another coach and lose again - we will be on life support.
And, we must be free to ask, Rivera compared to who else?
The season ends in a month, maybe sooner. There is no time left to fire Knowlton, get the new person in, fire Wilcox and have them do a proper search while all the top up and coming prospects are still available (ie not repeat the mistake with firing Dykes/hiring Wilcox). That is why it was disappointing Lyons didn't replace Knowlton in August.
At this point, Rivera is the only candidate that could be agreed upon and foisted onto Knowlton by the boosters with Lyons' assent in time for a strong recruiting class (Sagapolutele) and be in place for next year. Rivera is the only option other than Wilcox coaching next year or spending $15 million to fire Wilcox and have Knowlton do the hiring.
We are running out of time. 2024 and 2025 are/were our big opportunities to break through using the weak schedule on our new national stage.
People may quibble over Rivera's NFL record, and any coaching hire is a gamble, but the question is who would you rather have as Cal's coach for 2025? Rivera or Wilcox? Between the two, who will best excite fans, recruits, donors, and the national media? Who will give us a chance at having a better staff? Because until Knowlton is gone, those are really our only realistic choices.
It is highly unrealistic to think we are firing Knowlton and getting an experienced AD who would immediately fire Wilcox and hire someone new all in the next month. And given our budget issues our best hope would be taking a big risk on an up and comer (maybe Marion, the OC at UNLV?).
Makes much more sense to hire Rivera, because that would make a big splash, impress recruits, the media and donors and he could hire someone like Marion at OC and set him up as a possible successor (to be decided by the next AD).
Otherwise it is at least another year of Wilcox.
We want to poach a coach from a 3-8 team? Jimminy crickets!
Bring back bottled beer and cigars at CMS. Should get us back in the Rose Bowl!
> Troy Taylor isn't leaving the cozy confines of a well funded, private university that doesn't need community or university support to keep his job. And Stanfurd fans could care less about football success as has been seen since Shaw left and no one complains. His lack of success this season means nothing to their fans and he can rest easy on the farm for as long as he likes.
yeah-yeah, you're right, but this fool would gladly trade Wilcox for Troy Taylor.
yeah-yeah, you're right, but this fool would gladly trade Wilcox for Troy Taylor.
muting more than 300 handles, turnaround is fair play
I would take two wins over winning/ranked teams over 5 wins over bottom tier programs any dayoski003 said:HearstMining said:Assuming we're stuck with Wilcox for another year, I'd like to see Cal try to poach Troy Taylor for the 2026 season. By 2026, he and Stanfurd may be sick of each other. Anybody who saw what a lousy team Sac St. had FOR YEARS prior to Taylor taking over and how they seem to be reverting to form (3-8 this season) knows that Taylor was the reason for their success. Maybe Cal's alumni whales can come up with the $$ to make this happen.calumnus said:Rushinbear said:Any decent, experienced ad will know which coaches are looking or are recruitable and which ones would be good for our program. In fact, being a business type guy, I would bet that Lyons knows this - it's how the business world works, too. It's just that our chancellors have not wanted a competent ad like that - going back to when Mike White overspent and Mags canned him.calumnus said:Rushinbear said:The idea of picking another hc before replacing the ad is unthinkable. Knowlton HAS to go right now. Then, the new ad must have the freedom to pick his own hc. otherwise, how could we ever hold HIM accountable. If Knowlton brings in Rivera, say, we're open to still another bad call by him. It looks like the only thing he's done right is Madden, and the jury is still rightfully out on him.philly1121 said:Well, let's look at this for a moment. Carrol was 6-10 as Jets coach. He was 27-21 with the Patriots. Didn't have a losing season with them. Then he goes to the USC. So - a small margin yes, but he had a winning record. And, he was at the Jets in 94. I repeat, the New York Jets. They suck. They sucked back then. They always will suck.southseasbear said:What was Pete Carrol's record in the NFL before USC hired him?philly1121 said:
Hiring Ron Rivera as HC because he would work below market rate is not a reason to hire him. His record is mid. 3 winning seasons in 13. That's not someone I'm willing to give the keys to. Even if he's an alum.
Let me help:
Jets 1994 6-10
Pats 1997 10-6
Pats 1998 9-7
Pats 1999 8-8
----------------------
Total 33-31
Carrol's body of work in the NFL before he went to college I think speaks for itself. And he's the only coach I know (recent memory) that was good in the pros, great in college, and great in the pros again. Rivera had 13 years in the pros and made it work 3 times. Maybe he would be good in college. But is that a risk we want to take with the way things are now? We dial in two more 6 win seasons, we will be in serious trouble. And if we get another coach and lose again - we will be on life support.
And, we must be free to ask, Rivera compared to who else?
The season ends in a month, maybe sooner. There is no time left to fire Knowlton, get the new person in, fire Wilcox and have them do a proper search while all the top up and coming prospects are still available (ie not repeat the mistake with firing Dykes/hiring Wilcox). That is why it was disappointing Lyons didn't replace Knowlton in August.
At this point, Rivera is the only candidate that could be agreed upon and foisted onto Knowlton by the boosters with Lyons' assent in time for a strong recruiting class (Sagapolutele) and be in place for next year. Rivera is the only option other than Wilcox coaching next year or spending $15 million to fire Wilcox and have Knowlton do the hiring.
We are running out of time. 2024 and 2025 are/were our big opportunities to break through using the weak schedule on our new national stage.
People may quibble over Rivera's NFL record, and any coaching hire is a gamble, but the question is who would you rather have as Cal's coach for 2025? Rivera or Wilcox? Between the two, who will best excite fans, recruits, donors, and the national media? Who will give us a chance at having a better staff? Because until Knowlton is gone, those are really our only realistic choices.
It is highly unrealistic to think we are firing Knowlton and getting an experienced AD who would immediately fire Wilcox and hire someone new all in the next month. And given our budget issues our best hope would be taking a big risk on an up and comer (maybe Marion, the OC at UNLV?).
Makes much more sense to hire Rivera, because that would make a big splash, impress recruits, the media and donors and he could hire someone like Marion at OC and set him up as a possible successor (to be decided by the next AD).
Otherwise it is at least another year of Wilcox.
We want to poach a coach from a 3-8 team? Jimminy crickets!
DoubtfulBear said:I would take two wins over winning/ranked teams over 5 wins over bottom tier programs any dayoski003 said:HearstMining said:Assuming we're stuck with Wilcox for another year, I'd like to see Cal try to poach Troy Taylor for the 2026 season. By 2026, he and Stanfurd may be sick of each other. Anybody who saw what a lousy team Sac St. had FOR YEARS prior to Taylor taking over and how they seem to be reverting to form (3-8 this season) knows that Taylor was the reason for their success. Maybe Cal's alumni whales can come up with the $$ to make this happen.calumnus said:Rushinbear said:Any decent, experienced ad will know which coaches are looking or are recruitable and which ones would be good for our program. In fact, being a business type guy, I would bet that Lyons knows this - it's how the business world works, too. It's just that our chancellors have not wanted a competent ad like that - going back to when Mike White overspent and Mags canned him.calumnus said:Rushinbear said:The idea of picking another hc before replacing the ad is unthinkable. Knowlton HAS to go right now. Then, the new ad must have the freedom to pick his own hc. otherwise, how could we ever hold HIM accountable. If Knowlton brings in Rivera, say, we're open to still another bad call by him. It looks like the only thing he's done right is Madden, and the jury is still rightfully out on him.philly1121 said:Well, let's look at this for a moment. Carrol was 6-10 as Jets coach. He was 27-21 with the Patriots. Didn't have a losing season with them. Then he goes to the USC. So - a small margin yes, but he had a winning record. And, he was at the Jets in 94. I repeat, the New York Jets. They suck. They sucked back then. They always will suck.southseasbear said:What was Pete Carrol's record in the NFL before USC hired him?philly1121 said:
Hiring Ron Rivera as HC because he would work below market rate is not a reason to hire him. His record is mid. 3 winning seasons in 13. That's not someone I'm willing to give the keys to. Even if he's an alum.
Let me help:
Jets 1994 6-10
Pats 1997 10-6
Pats 1998 9-7
Pats 1999 8-8
----------------------
Total 33-31
Carrol's body of work in the NFL before he went to college I think speaks for itself. And he's the only coach I know (recent memory) that was good in the pros, great in college, and great in the pros again. Rivera had 13 years in the pros and made it work 3 times. Maybe he would be good in college. But is that a risk we want to take with the way things are now? We dial in two more 6 win seasons, we will be in serious trouble. And if we get another coach and lose again - we will be on life support.
And, we must be free to ask, Rivera compared to who else?
The season ends in a month, maybe sooner. There is no time left to fire Knowlton, get the new person in, fire Wilcox and have them do a proper search while all the top up and coming prospects are still available (ie not repeat the mistake with firing Dykes/hiring Wilcox). That is why it was disappointing Lyons didn't replace Knowlton in August.
At this point, Rivera is the only candidate that could be agreed upon and foisted onto Knowlton by the boosters with Lyons' assent in time for a strong recruiting class (Sagapolutele) and be in place for next year. Rivera is the only option other than Wilcox coaching next year or spending $15 million to fire Wilcox and have Knowlton do the hiring.
We are running out of time. 2024 and 2025 are/were our big opportunities to break through using the weak schedule on our new national stage.
People may quibble over Rivera's NFL record, and any coaching hire is a gamble, but the question is who would you rather have as Cal's coach for 2025? Rivera or Wilcox? Between the two, who will best excite fans, recruits, donors, and the national media? Who will give us a chance at having a better staff? Because until Knowlton is gone, those are really our only realistic choices.
It is highly unrealistic to think we are firing Knowlton and getting an experienced AD who would immediately fire Wilcox and hire someone new all in the next month. And given our budget issues our best hope would be taking a big risk on an up and comer (maybe Marion, the OC at UNLV?).
Makes much more sense to hire Rivera, because that would make a big splash, impress recruits, the media and donors and he could hire someone like Marion at OC and set him up as a possible successor (to be decided by the next AD).
Otherwise it is at least another year of Wilcox.
We want to poach a coach from a 3-8 team? Jimminy crickets!
Of course you'd rather be sagarin #100 ranked stanfurd over #50 ranked Cal. Stanfurd beat unranked Louisville, Cal Poly, and Syracuse. Impressive wins! Let's poach the soon to be 3-8 coach!
I am very confident Bear Insider would not have been happy if Cal beat only Miami/Pitt and lost every other game
Far more impressive than 3-7 SDSU, FCS UCD, 4-6 Auburn, 4-6 Oregon State, and 4-6 WFoski003 said:DoubtfulBear said:I would take two wins over winning/ranked teams over 5 wins over bottom tier programs any dayoski003 said:HearstMining said:Assuming we're stuck with Wilcox for another year, I'd like to see Cal try to poach Troy Taylor for the 2026 season. By 2026, he and Stanfurd may be sick of each other. Anybody who saw what a lousy team Sac St. had FOR YEARS prior to Taylor taking over and how they seem to be reverting to form (3-8 this season) knows that Taylor was the reason for their success. Maybe Cal's alumni whales can come up with the $$ to make this happen.calumnus said:Rushinbear said:Any decent, experienced ad will know which coaches are looking or are recruitable and which ones would be good for our program. In fact, being a business type guy, I would bet that Lyons knows this - it's how the business world works, too. It's just that our chancellors have not wanted a competent ad like that - going back to when Mike White overspent and Mags canned him.calumnus said:Rushinbear said:The idea of picking another hc before replacing the ad is unthinkable. Knowlton HAS to go right now. Then, the new ad must have the freedom to pick his own hc. otherwise, how could we ever hold HIM accountable. If Knowlton brings in Rivera, say, we're open to still another bad call by him. It looks like the only thing he's done right is Madden, and the jury is still rightfully out on him.philly1121 said:Well, let's look at this for a moment. Carrol was 6-10 as Jets coach. He was 27-21 with the Patriots. Didn't have a losing season with them. Then he goes to the USC. So - a small margin yes, but he had a winning record. And, he was at the Jets in 94. I repeat, the New York Jets. They suck. They sucked back then. They always will suck.southseasbear said:What was Pete Carrol's record in the NFL before USC hired him?philly1121 said:
Hiring Ron Rivera as HC because he would work below market rate is not a reason to hire him. His record is mid. 3 winning seasons in 13. That's not someone I'm willing to give the keys to. Even if he's an alum.
Let me help:
Jets 1994 6-10
Pats 1997 10-6
Pats 1998 9-7
Pats 1999 8-8
----------------------
Total 33-31
Carrol's body of work in the NFL before he went to college I think speaks for itself. And he's the only coach I know (recent memory) that was good in the pros, great in college, and great in the pros again. Rivera had 13 years in the pros and made it work 3 times. Maybe he would be good in college. But is that a risk we want to take with the way things are now? We dial in two more 6 win seasons, we will be in serious trouble. And if we get another coach and lose again - we will be on life support.
And, we must be free to ask, Rivera compared to who else?
The season ends in a month, maybe sooner. There is no time left to fire Knowlton, get the new person in, fire Wilcox and have them do a proper search while all the top up and coming prospects are still available (ie not repeat the mistake with firing Dykes/hiring Wilcox). That is why it was disappointing Lyons didn't replace Knowlton in August.
At this point, Rivera is the only candidate that could be agreed upon and foisted onto Knowlton by the boosters with Lyons' assent in time for a strong recruiting class (Sagapolutele) and be in place for next year. Rivera is the only option other than Wilcox coaching next year or spending $15 million to fire Wilcox and have Knowlton do the hiring.
We are running out of time. 2024 and 2025 are/were our big opportunities to break through using the weak schedule on our new national stage.
People may quibble over Rivera's NFL record, and any coaching hire is a gamble, but the question is who would you rather have as Cal's coach for 2025? Rivera or Wilcox? Between the two, who will best excite fans, recruits, donors, and the national media? Who will give us a chance at having a better staff? Because until Knowlton is gone, those are really our only realistic choices.
It is highly unrealistic to think we are firing Knowlton and getting an experienced AD who would immediately fire Wilcox and hire someone new all in the next month. And given our budget issues our best hope would be taking a big risk on an up and comer (maybe Marion, the OC at UNLV?).
Makes much more sense to hire Rivera, because that would make a big splash, impress recruits, the media and donors and he could hire someone like Marion at OC and set him up as a possible successor (to be decided by the next AD).
Otherwise it is at least another year of Wilcox.
We want to poach a coach from a 3-8 team? Jimminy crickets!
Of course you'd rather be sagarin #100 ranked stanfurd over #50 ranked Cal. Stanfurd beat unranked Louisville, Cal Poly, and Syracuse. Impressive wins! Let's poach the soon to be 3-8 coach!
Three of those teams would be .500 if we hadn't beaten them, though.DoubtfulBear said:Far more impressive than 3-7 SDSU, FCS UCD, 4-6 Auburn, 4-6 Oregon State, and 4-6 WFoski003 said:DoubtfulBear said:I would take two wins over winning/ranked teams over 5 wins over bottom tier programs any dayoski003 said:HearstMining said:Assuming we're stuck with Wilcox for another year, I'd like to see Cal try to poach Troy Taylor for the 2026 season. By 2026, he and Stanfurd may be sick of each other. Anybody who saw what a lousy team Sac St. had FOR YEARS prior to Taylor taking over and how they seem to be reverting to form (3-8 this season) knows that Taylor was the reason for their success. Maybe Cal's alumni whales can come up with the $$ to make this happen.calumnus said:Rushinbear said:Any decent, experienced ad will know which coaches are looking or are recruitable and which ones would be good for our program. In fact, being a business type guy, I would bet that Lyons knows this - it's how the business world works, too. It's just that our chancellors have not wanted a competent ad like that - going back to when Mike White overspent and Mags canned him.calumnus said:Rushinbear said:The idea of picking another hc before replacing the ad is unthinkable. Knowlton HAS to go right now. Then, the new ad must have the freedom to pick his own hc. otherwise, how could we ever hold HIM accountable. If Knowlton brings in Rivera, say, we're open to still another bad call by him. It looks like the only thing he's done right is Madden, and the jury is still rightfully out on him.philly1121 said:Well, let's look at this for a moment. Carrol was 6-10 as Jets coach. He was 27-21 with the Patriots. Didn't have a losing season with them. Then he goes to the USC. So - a small margin yes, but he had a winning record. And, he was at the Jets in 94. I repeat, the New York Jets. They suck. They sucked back then. They always will suck.southseasbear said:What was Pete Carrol's record in the NFL before USC hired him?philly1121 said:
Hiring Ron Rivera as HC because he would work below market rate is not a reason to hire him. His record is mid. 3 winning seasons in 13. That's not someone I'm willing to give the keys to. Even if he's an alum.
Let me help:
Jets 1994 6-10
Pats 1997 10-6
Pats 1998 9-7
Pats 1999 8-8
----------------------
Total 33-31
Carrol's body of work in the NFL before he went to college I think speaks for itself. And he's the only coach I know (recent memory) that was good in the pros, great in college, and great in the pros again. Rivera had 13 years in the pros and made it work 3 times. Maybe he would be good in college. But is that a risk we want to take with the way things are now? We dial in two more 6 win seasons, we will be in serious trouble. And if we get another coach and lose again - we will be on life support.
And, we must be free to ask, Rivera compared to who else?
The season ends in a month, maybe sooner. There is no time left to fire Knowlton, get the new person in, fire Wilcox and have them do a proper search while all the top up and coming prospects are still available (ie not repeat the mistake with firing Dykes/hiring Wilcox). That is why it was disappointing Lyons didn't replace Knowlton in August.
At this point, Rivera is the only candidate that could be agreed upon and foisted onto Knowlton by the boosters with Lyons' assent in time for a strong recruiting class (Sagapolutele) and be in place for next year. Rivera is the only option other than Wilcox coaching next year or spending $15 million to fire Wilcox and have Knowlton do the hiring.
We are running out of time. 2024 and 2025 are/were our big opportunities to break through using the weak schedule on our new national stage.
People may quibble over Rivera's NFL record, and any coaching hire is a gamble, but the question is who would you rather have as Cal's coach for 2025? Rivera or Wilcox? Between the two, who will best excite fans, recruits, donors, and the national media? Who will give us a chance at having a better staff? Because until Knowlton is gone, those are really our only realistic choices.
It is highly unrealistic to think we are firing Knowlton and getting an experienced AD who would immediately fire Wilcox and hire someone new all in the next month. And given our budget issues our best hope would be taking a big risk on an up and comer (maybe Marion, the OC at UNLV?).
Makes much more sense to hire Rivera, because that would make a big splash, impress recruits, the media and donors and he could hire someone like Marion at OC and set him up as a possible successor (to be decided by the next AD).
Otherwise it is at least another year of Wilcox.
We want to poach a coach from a 3-8 team? Jimminy crickets!
Of course you'd rather be sagarin #100 ranked stanfurd over #50 ranked Cal. Stanfurd beat unranked Louisville, Cal Poly, and Syracuse. Impressive wins! Let's poach the soon to be 3-8 coach!
As if .500 is a good record? No wonder why there are so many Wilcox apologists still here. Based on conference record, 1-5 Cal beat 2-3 SDSU, 1-5 Auburn, and 2-4 WF. Do those seem like impressive wins to you?bearsandgiants said:Three of those teams would be .500 if we hadn't beaten them, though.DoubtfulBear said:Far more impressive than 3-7 SDSU, FCS UCD, 4-6 Auburn, 4-6 Oregon State, and 4-6 WFoski003 said:DoubtfulBear said:I would take two wins over winning/ranked teams over 5 wins over bottom tier programs any dayoski003 said:HearstMining said:Assuming we're stuck with Wilcox for another year, I'd like to see Cal try to poach Troy Taylor for the 2026 season. By 2026, he and Stanfurd may be sick of each other. Anybody who saw what a lousy team Sac St. had FOR YEARS prior to Taylor taking over and how they seem to be reverting to form (3-8 this season) knows that Taylor was the reason for their success. Maybe Cal's alumni whales can come up with the $$ to make this happen.calumnus said:Rushinbear said:Any decent, experienced ad will know which coaches are looking or are recruitable and which ones would be good for our program. In fact, being a business type guy, I would bet that Lyons knows this - it's how the business world works, too. It's just that our chancellors have not wanted a competent ad like that - going back to when Mike White overspent and Mags canned him.calumnus said:Rushinbear said:The idea of picking another hc before replacing the ad is unthinkable. Knowlton HAS to go right now. Then, the new ad must have the freedom to pick his own hc. otherwise, how could we ever hold HIM accountable. If Knowlton brings in Rivera, say, we're open to still another bad call by him. It looks like the only thing he's done right is Madden, and the jury is still rightfully out on him.philly1121 said:Well, let's look at this for a moment. Carrol was 6-10 as Jets coach. He was 27-21 with the Patriots. Didn't have a losing season with them. Then he goes to the USC. So - a small margin yes, but he had a winning record. And, he was at the Jets in 94. I repeat, the New York Jets. They suck. They sucked back then. They always will suck.southseasbear said:What was Pete Carrol's record in the NFL before USC hired him?philly1121 said:
Hiring Ron Rivera as HC because he would work below market rate is not a reason to hire him. His record is mid. 3 winning seasons in 13. That's not someone I'm willing to give the keys to. Even if he's an alum.
Let me help:
Jets 1994 6-10
Pats 1997 10-6
Pats 1998 9-7
Pats 1999 8-8
----------------------
Total 33-31
Carrol's body of work in the NFL before he went to college I think speaks for itself. And he's the only coach I know (recent memory) that was good in the pros, great in college, and great in the pros again. Rivera had 13 years in the pros and made it work 3 times. Maybe he would be good in college. But is that a risk we want to take with the way things are now? We dial in two more 6 win seasons, we will be in serious trouble. And if we get another coach and lose again - we will be on life support.
And, we must be free to ask, Rivera compared to who else?
The season ends in a month, maybe sooner. There is no time left to fire Knowlton, get the new person in, fire Wilcox and have them do a proper search while all the top up and coming prospects are still available (ie not repeat the mistake with firing Dykes/hiring Wilcox). That is why it was disappointing Lyons didn't replace Knowlton in August.
At this point, Rivera is the only candidate that could be agreed upon and foisted onto Knowlton by the boosters with Lyons' assent in time for a strong recruiting class (Sagapolutele) and be in place for next year. Rivera is the only option other than Wilcox coaching next year or spending $15 million to fire Wilcox and have Knowlton do the hiring.
We are running out of time. 2024 and 2025 are/were our big opportunities to break through using the weak schedule on our new national stage.
People may quibble over Rivera's NFL record, and any coaching hire is a gamble, but the question is who would you rather have as Cal's coach for 2025? Rivera or Wilcox? Between the two, who will best excite fans, recruits, donors, and the national media? Who will give us a chance at having a better staff? Because until Knowlton is gone, those are really our only realistic choices.
It is highly unrealistic to think we are firing Knowlton and getting an experienced AD who would immediately fire Wilcox and hire someone new all in the next month. And given our budget issues our best hope would be taking a big risk on an up and comer (maybe Marion, the OC at UNLV?).
Makes much more sense to hire Rivera, because that would make a big splash, impress recruits, the media and donors and he could hire someone like Marion at OC and set him up as a possible successor (to be decided by the next AD).
Otherwise it is at least another year of Wilcox.
We want to poach a coach from a 3-8 team? Jimminy crickets!
Of course you'd rather be sagarin #100 ranked stanfurd over #50 ranked Cal. Stanfurd beat unranked Louisville, Cal Poly, and Syracuse. Impressive wins! Let's poach the soon to be 3-8 coach!
DoubtfulBear said:As if .500 is a good record? No wonder why there are so many Wilcox apologists still here. Based on conference record, 1-5 Cal beat 2-3 SDSU, 1-5 Auburn, and 2-4 WF. Do those seem like impressive wins to you?bearsandgiants said:Three of those teams would be .500 if we hadn't beaten them, though.DoubtfulBear said:Far more impressive than 3-7 SDSU, FCS UCD, 4-6 Auburn, 4-6 Oregon State, and 4-6 WFoski003 said:DoubtfulBear said:I would take two wins over winning/ranked teams over 5 wins over bottom tier programs any dayoski003 said:HearstMining said:Assuming we're stuck with Wilcox for another year, I'd like to see Cal try to poach Troy Taylor for the 2026 season. By 2026, he and Stanfurd may be sick of each other. Anybody who saw what a lousy team Sac St. had FOR YEARS prior to Taylor taking over and how they seem to be reverting to form (3-8 this season) knows that Taylor was the reason for their success. Maybe Cal's alumni whales can come up with the $$ to make this happen.calumnus said:Rushinbear said:Any decent, experienced ad will know which coaches are looking or are recruitable and which ones would be good for our program. In fact, being a business type guy, I would bet that Lyons knows this - it's how the business world works, too. It's just that our chancellors have not wanted a competent ad like that - going back to when Mike White overspent and Mags canned him.calumnus said:Rushinbear said:The idea of picking another hc before replacing the ad is unthinkable. Knowlton HAS to go right now. Then, the new ad must have the freedom to pick his own hc. otherwise, how could we ever hold HIM accountable. If Knowlton brings in Rivera, say, we're open to still another bad call by him. It looks like the only thing he's done right is Madden, and the jury is still rightfully out on him.philly1121 said:Well, let's look at this for a moment. Carrol was 6-10 as Jets coach. He was 27-21 with the Patriots. Didn't have a losing season with them. Then he goes to the USC. So - a small margin yes, but he had a winning record. And, he was at the Jets in 94. I repeat, the New York Jets. They suck. They sucked back then. They always will suck.southseasbear said:What was Pete Carrol's record in the NFL before USC hired him?philly1121 said:
Hiring Ron Rivera as HC because he would work below market rate is not a reason to hire him. His record is mid. 3 winning seasons in 13. That's not someone I'm willing to give the keys to. Even if he's an alum.
Let me help:
Jets 1994 6-10
Pats 1997 10-6
Pats 1998 9-7
Pats 1999 8-8
----------------------
Total 33-31
Carrol's body of work in the NFL before he went to college I think speaks for itself. And he's the only coach I know (recent memory) that was good in the pros, great in college, and great in the pros again. Rivera had 13 years in the pros and made it work 3 times. Maybe he would be good in college. But is that a risk we want to take with the way things are now? We dial in two more 6 win seasons, we will be in serious trouble. And if we get another coach and lose again - we will be on life support.
And, we must be free to ask, Rivera compared to who else?
The season ends in a month, maybe sooner. There is no time left to fire Knowlton, get the new person in, fire Wilcox and have them do a proper search while all the top up and coming prospects are still available (ie not repeat the mistake with firing Dykes/hiring Wilcox). That is why it was disappointing Lyons didn't replace Knowlton in August.
At this point, Rivera is the only candidate that could be agreed upon and foisted onto Knowlton by the boosters with Lyons' assent in time for a strong recruiting class (Sagapolutele) and be in place for next year. Rivera is the only option other than Wilcox coaching next year or spending $15 million to fire Wilcox and have Knowlton do the hiring.
We are running out of time. 2024 and 2025 are/were our big opportunities to break through using the weak schedule on our new national stage.
People may quibble over Rivera's NFL record, and any coaching hire is a gamble, but the question is who would you rather have as Cal's coach for 2025? Rivera or Wilcox? Between the two, who will best excite fans, recruits, donors, and the national media? Who will give us a chance at having a better staff? Because until Knowlton is gone, those are really our only realistic choices.
It is highly unrealistic to think we are firing Knowlton and getting an experienced AD who would immediately fire Wilcox and hire someone new all in the next month. And given our budget issues our best hope would be taking a big risk on an up and comer (maybe Marion, the OC at UNLV?).
Makes much more sense to hire Rivera, because that would make a big splash, impress recruits, the media and donors and he could hire someone like Marion at OC and set him up as a possible successor (to be decided by the next AD).
Otherwise it is at least another year of Wilcox.
We want to poach a coach from a 3-8 team? Jimminy crickets!
Of course you'd rather be sagarin #100 ranked stanfurd over #50 ranked Cal. Stanfurd beat unranked Louisville, Cal Poly, and Syracuse. Impressive wins! Let's poach the soon to be 3-8 coach!
Does the Almighty 3-8 Stanfurd need to at least beat us before we poach their coach? After all, along with their 7 losses, they beat one top 30 team and almost broke into the top 100 football teams per Sagarin! Go trees! Woot!
Also, don't confuse a Wilcox apologist with a realist. A realist doesn't want to pick up a 3-7 coach from a crappy team. A realist would love to replace Wilcox with an actual good coach.
I would much rather have a Cal alum as HC than pray for the ghost of Ron Riviera to be willing to come as a pro bono coach. Daydreaming that the next DeBoer or Cignetti would just happen to want to come here is far from realismoski003 said:DoubtfulBear said:As if .500 is a good record? No wonder why there are so many Wilcox apologists still here. Based on conference record, 1-5 Cal beat 2-3 SDSU, 1-5 Auburn, and 2-4 WF. Do those seem like impressive wins to you?bearsandgiants said:Three of those teams would be .500 if we hadn't beaten them, though.DoubtfulBear said:Far more impressive than 3-7 SDSU, FCS UCD, 4-6 Auburn, 4-6 Oregon State, and 4-6 WFoski003 said:DoubtfulBear said:I would take two wins over winning/ranked teams over 5 wins over bottom tier programs any dayoski003 said:HearstMining said:Assuming we're stuck with Wilcox for another year, I'd like to see Cal try to poach Troy Taylor for the 2026 season. By 2026, he and Stanfurd may be sick of each other. Anybody who saw what a lousy team Sac St. had FOR YEARS prior to Taylor taking over and how they seem to be reverting to form (3-8 this season) knows that Taylor was the reason for their success. Maybe Cal's alumni whales can come up with the $$ to make this happen.calumnus said:Rushinbear said:Any decent, experienced ad will know which coaches are looking or are recruitable and which ones would be good for our program. In fact, being a business type guy, I would bet that Lyons knows this - it's how the business world works, too. It's just that our chancellors have not wanted a competent ad like that - going back to when Mike White overspent and Mags canned him.calumnus said:Rushinbear said:The idea of picking another hc before replacing the ad is unthinkable. Knowlton HAS to go right now. Then, the new ad must have the freedom to pick his own hc. otherwise, how could we ever hold HIM accountable. If Knowlton brings in Rivera, say, we're open to still another bad call by him. It looks like the only thing he's done right is Madden, and the jury is still rightfully out on him.philly1121 said:Well, let's look at this for a moment. Carrol was 6-10 as Jets coach. He was 27-21 with the Patriots. Didn't have a losing season with them. Then he goes to the USC. So - a small margin yes, but he had a winning record. And, he was at the Jets in 94. I repeat, the New York Jets. They suck. They sucked back then. They always will suck.southseasbear said:What was Pete Carrol's record in the NFL before USC hired him?philly1121 said:
Hiring Ron Rivera as HC because he would work below market rate is not a reason to hire him. His record is mid. 3 winning seasons in 13. That's not someone I'm willing to give the keys to. Even if he's an alum.
Let me help:
Jets 1994 6-10
Pats 1997 10-6
Pats 1998 9-7
Pats 1999 8-8
----------------------
Total 33-31
Carrol's body of work in the NFL before he went to college I think speaks for itself. And he's the only coach I know (recent memory) that was good in the pros, great in college, and great in the pros again. Rivera had 13 years in the pros and made it work 3 times. Maybe he would be good in college. But is that a risk we want to take with the way things are now? We dial in two more 6 win seasons, we will be in serious trouble. And if we get another coach and lose again - we will be on life support.
And, we must be free to ask, Rivera compared to who else?
The season ends in a month, maybe sooner. There is no time left to fire Knowlton, get the new person in, fire Wilcox and have them do a proper search while all the top up and coming prospects are still available (ie not repeat the mistake with firing Dykes/hiring Wilcox). That is why it was disappointing Lyons didn't replace Knowlton in August.
At this point, Rivera is the only candidate that could be agreed upon and foisted onto Knowlton by the boosters with Lyons' assent in time for a strong recruiting class (Sagapolutele) and be in place for next year. Rivera is the only option other than Wilcox coaching next year or spending $15 million to fire Wilcox and have Knowlton do the hiring.
We are running out of time. 2024 and 2025 are/were our big opportunities to break through using the weak schedule on our new national stage.
People may quibble over Rivera's NFL record, and any coaching hire is a gamble, but the question is who would you rather have as Cal's coach for 2025? Rivera or Wilcox? Between the two, who will best excite fans, recruits, donors, and the national media? Who will give us a chance at having a better staff? Because until Knowlton is gone, those are really our only realistic choices.
It is highly unrealistic to think we are firing Knowlton and getting an experienced AD who would immediately fire Wilcox and hire someone new all in the next month. And given our budget issues our best hope would be taking a big risk on an up and comer (maybe Marion, the OC at UNLV?).
Makes much more sense to hire Rivera, because that would make a big splash, impress recruits, the media and donors and he could hire someone like Marion at OC and set him up as a possible successor (to be decided by the next AD).
Otherwise it is at least another year of Wilcox.
We want to poach a coach from a 3-8 team? Jimminy crickets!
Of course you'd rather be sagarin #100 ranked stanfurd over #50 ranked Cal. Stanfurd beat unranked Louisville, Cal Poly, and Syracuse. Impressive wins! Let's poach the soon to be 3-8 coach!
Does the Almighty 3-8 Stanfurd need to at least beat us before we poach their coach? After all, along with their 7 losses, they beat one top 30 team and almost broke into the top 100 football teams per Sagarin! Go trees! Woot!
Also, don't confuse a Wilcox apologist with a realist. A realist doesn't want to pick up a 3-7 coach from a crappy team. A realist would love to replace Wilcox with an actual good coach.
DoubtfulBear said:I would much rather have a Cal alum as HC than pray for the ghost of Ron Riviera to be willing to come as a pro bono coach. Daydreaming that the next DeBoer or Cignetti would just happen to want to come here is far from realismoski003 said:DoubtfulBear said:As if .500 is a good record? No wonder why there are so many Wilcox apologists still here. Based on conference record, 1-5 Cal beat 2-3 SDSU, 1-5 Auburn, and 2-4 WF. Do those seem like impressive wins to you?bearsandgiants said:Three of those teams would be .500 if we hadn't beaten them, though.DoubtfulBear said:Far more impressive than 3-7 SDSU, FCS UCD, 4-6 Auburn, 4-6 Oregon State, and 4-6 WFoski003 said:DoubtfulBear said:I would take two wins over winning/ranked teams over 5 wins over bottom tier programs any dayoski003 said:HearstMining said:Assuming we're stuck with Wilcox for another year, I'd like to see Cal try to poach Troy Taylor for the 2026 season. By 2026, he and Stanfurd may be sick of each other. Anybody who saw what a lousy team Sac St. had FOR YEARS prior to Taylor taking over and how they seem to be reverting to form (3-8 this season) knows that Taylor was the reason for their success. Maybe Cal's alumni whales can come up with the $$ to make this happen.calumnus said:Rushinbear said:Any decent, experienced ad will know which coaches are looking or are recruitable and which ones would be good for our program. In fact, being a business type guy, I would bet that Lyons knows this - it's how the business world works, too. It's just that our chancellors have not wanted a competent ad like that - going back to when Mike White overspent and Mags canned him.calumnus said:Rushinbear said:The idea of picking another hc before replacing the ad is unthinkable. Knowlton HAS to go right now. Then, the new ad must have the freedom to pick his own hc. otherwise, how could we ever hold HIM accountable. If Knowlton brings in Rivera, say, we're open to still another bad call by him. It looks like the only thing he's done right is Madden, and the jury is still rightfully out on him.philly1121 said:Well, let's look at this for a moment. Carrol was 6-10 as Jets coach. He was 27-21 with the Patriots. Didn't have a losing season with them. Then he goes to the USC. So - a small margin yes, but he had a winning record. And, he was at the Jets in 94. I repeat, the New York Jets. They suck. They sucked back then. They always will suck.southseasbear said:What was Pete Carrol's record in the NFL before USC hired him?philly1121 said:
Hiring Ron Rivera as HC because he would work below market rate is not a reason to hire him. His record is mid. 3 winning seasons in 13. That's not someone I'm willing to give the keys to. Even if he's an alum.
Let me help:
Jets 1994 6-10
Pats 1997 10-6
Pats 1998 9-7
Pats 1999 8-8
----------------------
Total 33-31
Carrol's body of work in the NFL before he went to college I think speaks for itself. And he's the only coach I know (recent memory) that was good in the pros, great in college, and great in the pros again. Rivera had 13 years in the pros and made it work 3 times. Maybe he would be good in college. But is that a risk we want to take with the way things are now? We dial in two more 6 win seasons, we will be in serious trouble. And if we get another coach and lose again - we will be on life support.
And, we must be free to ask, Rivera compared to who else?
The season ends in a month, maybe sooner. There is no time left to fire Knowlton, get the new person in, fire Wilcox and have them do a proper search while all the top up and coming prospects are still available (ie not repeat the mistake with firing Dykes/hiring Wilcox). That is why it was disappointing Lyons didn't replace Knowlton in August.
At this point, Rivera is the only candidate that could be agreed upon and foisted onto Knowlton by the boosters with Lyons' assent in time for a strong recruiting class (Sagapolutele) and be in place for next year. Rivera is the only option other than Wilcox coaching next year or spending $15 million to fire Wilcox and have Knowlton do the hiring.
We are running out of time. 2024 and 2025 are/were our big opportunities to break through using the weak schedule on our new national stage.
People may quibble over Rivera's NFL record, and any coaching hire is a gamble, but the question is who would you rather have as Cal's coach for 2025? Rivera or Wilcox? Between the two, who will best excite fans, recruits, donors, and the national media? Who will give us a chance at having a better staff? Because until Knowlton is gone, those are really our only realistic choices.
It is highly unrealistic to think we are firing Knowlton and getting an experienced AD who would immediately fire Wilcox and hire someone new all in the next month. And given our budget issues our best hope would be taking a big risk on an up and comer (maybe Marion, the OC at UNLV?).
Makes much more sense to hire Rivera, because that would make a big splash, impress recruits, the media and donors and he could hire someone like Marion at OC and set him up as a possible successor (to be decided by the next AD).
Otherwise it is at least another year of Wilcox.
We want to poach a coach from a 3-8 team? Jimminy crickets!
Of course you'd rather be sagarin #100 ranked stanfurd over #50 ranked Cal. Stanfurd beat unranked Louisville, Cal Poly, and Syracuse. Impressive wins! Let's poach the soon to be 3-8 coach!
Does the Almighty 3-8 Stanfurd need to at least beat us before we poach their coach? After all, along with their 7 losses, they beat one top 30 team and almost broke into the top 100 football teams per Sagarin! Go trees! Woot!
Also, don't confuse a Wilcox apologist with a realist. A realist doesn't want to pick up a 3-7 coach from a crappy team. A realist would love to replace Wilcox with an actual good coach.
So, if we could have a Cal Alumni be a mediocre coach of a mediocre team, you'd pay the $15 million buyout and be happy because you think we can't do better? Interesting...
oski003 said:DoubtfulBear said:I would much rather have a Cal alum as HC than pray for the ghost of Ron Riviera to be willing to come as a pro bono coach. Daydreaming that the next DeBoer or Cignetti would just happen to want to come here is far from realismoski003 said:DoubtfulBear said:As if .500 is a good record? No wonder why there are so many Wilcox apologists still here. Based on conference record, 1-5 Cal beat 2-3 SDSU, 1-5 Auburn, and 2-4 WF. Do those seem like impressive wins to you?bearsandgiants said:Three of those teams would be .500 if we hadn't beaten them, though.DoubtfulBear said:Far more impressive than 3-7 SDSU, FCS UCD, 4-6 Auburn, 4-6 Oregon State, and 4-6 WFoski003 said:DoubtfulBear said:I would take two wins over winning/ranked teams over 5 wins over bottom tier programs any dayoski003 said:HearstMining said:Assuming we're stuck with Wilcox for another year, I'd like to see Cal try to poach Troy Taylor for the 2026 season. By 2026, he and Stanfurd may be sick of each other. Anybody who saw what a lousy team Sac St. had FOR YEARS prior to Taylor taking over and how they seem to be reverting to form (3-8 this season) knows that Taylor was the reason for their success. Maybe Cal's alumni whales can come up with the $$ to make this happen.calumnus said:Rushinbear said:Any decent, experienced ad will know which coaches are looking or are recruitable and which ones would be good for our program. In fact, being a business type guy, I would bet that Lyons knows this - it's how the business world works, too. It's just that our chancellors have not wanted a competent ad like that - going back to when Mike White overspent and Mags canned him.calumnus said:Rushinbear said:The idea of picking another hc before replacing the ad is unthinkable. Knowlton HAS to go right now. Then, the new ad must have the freedom to pick his own hc. otherwise, how could we ever hold HIM accountable. If Knowlton brings in Rivera, say, we're open to still another bad call by him. It looks like the only thing he's done right is Madden, and the jury is still rightfully out on him.philly1121 said:Well, let's look at this for a moment. Carrol was 6-10 as Jets coach. He was 27-21 with the Patriots. Didn't have a losing season with them. Then he goes to the USC. So - a small margin yes, but he had a winning record. And, he was at the Jets in 94. I repeat, the New York Jets. They suck. They sucked back then. They always will suck.southseasbear said:What was Pete Carrol's record in the NFL before USC hired him?philly1121 said:
Hiring Ron Rivera as HC because he would work below market rate is not a reason to hire him. His record is mid. 3 winning seasons in 13. That's not someone I'm willing to give the keys to. Even if he's an alum.
Let me help:
Jets 1994 6-10
Pats 1997 10-6
Pats 1998 9-7
Pats 1999 8-8
----------------------
Total 33-31
Carrol's body of work in the NFL before he went to college I think speaks for itself. And he's the only coach I know (recent memory) that was good in the pros, great in college, and great in the pros again. Rivera had 13 years in the pros and made it work 3 times. Maybe he would be good in college. But is that a risk we want to take with the way things are now? We dial in two more 6 win seasons, we will be in serious trouble. And if we get another coach and lose again - we will be on life support.
And, we must be free to ask, Rivera compared to who else?
The season ends in a month, maybe sooner. There is no time left to fire Knowlton, get the new person in, fire Wilcox and have them do a proper search while all the top up and coming prospects are still available (ie not repeat the mistake with firing Dykes/hiring Wilcox). That is why it was disappointing Lyons didn't replace Knowlton in August.
At this point, Rivera is the only candidate that could be agreed upon and foisted onto Knowlton by the boosters with Lyons' assent in time for a strong recruiting class (Sagapolutele) and be in place for next year. Rivera is the only option other than Wilcox coaching next year or spending $15 million to fire Wilcox and have Knowlton do the hiring.
We are running out of time. 2024 and 2025 are/were our big opportunities to break through using the weak schedule on our new national stage.
People may quibble over Rivera's NFL record, and any coaching hire is a gamble, but the question is who would you rather have as Cal's coach for 2025? Rivera or Wilcox? Between the two, who will best excite fans, recruits, donors, and the national media? Who will give us a chance at having a better staff? Because until Knowlton is gone, those are really our only realistic choices.
It is highly unrealistic to think we are firing Knowlton and getting an experienced AD who would immediately fire Wilcox and hire someone new all in the next month. And given our budget issues our best hope would be taking a big risk on an up and comer (maybe Marion, the OC at UNLV?).
Makes much more sense to hire Rivera, because that would make a big splash, impress recruits, the media and donors and he could hire someone like Marion at OC and set him up as a possible successor (to be decided by the next AD).
Otherwise it is at least another year of Wilcox.
We want to poach a coach from a 3-8 team? Jimminy crickets!
Of course you'd rather be sagarin #100 ranked stanfurd over #50 ranked Cal. Stanfurd beat unranked Louisville, Cal Poly, and Syracuse. Impressive wins! Let's poach the soon to be 3-8 coach!
Does the Almighty 3-8 Stanfurd need to at least beat us before we poach their coach? After all, along with their 7 losses, they beat one top 30 team and almost broke into the top 100 football teams per Sagarin! Go trees! Woot!
Also, don't confuse a Wilcox apologist with a realist. A realist doesn't want to pick up a 3-7 coach from a crappy team. A realist would love to replace Wilcox with an actual good coach.
So, if we could have a Cal Alumni be a mediocre coach of a mediocre team, you'd pay the $15 million buyout and be happy because you think we can't do better? Interesting...
How about we get the most qualified man we can afford. Iam not enamored by Rivera
calumnus said:
Makes much more sense to hire Rivera, because that would make a big splash, impress recruits, the media and donors and he could hire someone like Marion at OC and set him up as a possible successor (to be decided by the next AD).
Otherwise it is at least another year of Wilcox.
You've been beating the Rivera drum for months now. Let's put aside everyone's guess as to if he be any good or not for a second. What makes you so confident he'd want/take the job? And at a discount? I have no doubt he loves Cal and the football program, but why present it as tho it's a done deal he'd take it if offered?
alarsuel said:calumnus said:
Makes much more sense to hire Rivera, because that would make a big splash, impress recruits, the media and donors and he could hire someone like Marion at OC and set him up as a possible successor (to be decided by the next AD).
Otherwise it is at least another year of Wilcox.
You've been beating the Rivera drum for months now. Let's put aside everyone's guess as to if he be any good or not for a second. What makes you so confident he'd want/take the job? And at a discount? I have no doubt he loves Cal and the football program, but why present it as tho it's a done deal he'd take it if offered?
1. I am saying "deferred compensation" more than "discount"
2. I am not saying he <would> (ie 100%) I am saying he is the only big name candidate that <might>
Reasons I think he might:
1. He is currently unemployed
2. He and his wife are loyal Cal alums
3. He has said he wants to coach at Cal before he is done. He is 63. That would be now.
4. He is very wealthy and is still be paid by the Commanders. Deferred compensation may even be preferable to him.
5. He and his wife are actually major donors to Cal Athletics and the Cal Legends NIL Collective, so yes, he does view Cal athletics as worthy of donating his time and money. He might be willing to "donate" a portion of his salary while we pay off Wilcox.
Finally, we don't know if he would until he is asked. I hope Lyons (or Sebasta) has a conversation with him about it. If I see him tomorrow I will.
Quote:
Rivera had 13 years in the pros and made it work 3 times.
Reading that made me realize I'd be content & satisfied if the next Cal HC could deliver, in every 4-year period, ONE legit late-season championship-contending team, while dumping losing seasons in all of the other 3 yrs.
It's been 20 yrs since we were late-season contenders. Imagine if we'd had 1 more late-contending team in the late 00s, 2 to 3 more in the 10s, and 1 more Wonder Team recently in the 20s. In this scenario, I wouldn't care that HC would eventually retire with a slightly losing record.
I'm not liking our chances at all tbh. Lot of unmotivated players in the Cal locker room. Stanford is coming in with nothing to lose. Wilcox will be fired today
Johnfox said:
I'm not liking our chances at all tbh. Lot of unmotivated players in the Cal locker room. Stanford is coming in with nothing to lose. Wilcox will be fired today
Are you a fairly new fan? Even if the team gets demolished by Stanford, this ****ty administration is not going to fire him. Nor will anyone with any actual influence care enough to voice displeasure.
Besides, Wilcox usually wins against bad teams at home when the season is already in the gutter.
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