After Sonny Dykes tummy talk, sloppy dress, and southern drawl, folks wanted a cleaner look - not unlike the GOP urges spoke.

The jawline quip wasn't too far off!

concordtom said:

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After Sonny Dykes tummy talk, sloppy dress, and southern drawl, folks wanted a cleaner look - not unlike the GOP urges spoke.

The jawline quip wasn't too far off!

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Folks wanted a defense. Now, folks want an offense. And so it goes...

Nice Vonnegut touch.

But, we want both offense and defense. I don't think it is too much to ask. This has been going on way too long. Especially with the very easy schedule that fell into the football teams lap this year. The record should be 9-3 easily. No excuses.

Big C said:

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concordtom said:

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After Sonny Dykes tummy talk, sloppy dress, and southern drawl, folks wanted a cleaner look - not unlike the GOP urges spoke.

The jawline quip wasn't too far off!

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Folks wanted a defense. Now, folks want an offense. And so it goes...

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Cal's like the Catholic church. They go from a skinny pope to a fat pope and vice versa. Cal goes from wanting an offensive-minded coach to a defensive-minded coach. For some odd reason, Cal can't seem to find one who is competent at both (or at least hasn't been able to do so since after peak Tedford).

Anarchistbear said:

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Strykur said:

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The bowl game could determine a lot

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It's an exhibition game. Nobody cares. Bowl eligible and beating Stanford are what matters

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This. Bowl eligibility and beating Stanford is a very successful year for Cal football. National relevance is simply not realistic - just be grateful the program still exists thanks to the ACC. Not only is Wilcox back next year, but I wouldn't be terribly surprised if the AD somehow arranges an extension.

dmh65 said:

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What is Wilcox's next job after Cal? Goes back to being a defensive coordinator?

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He wont need to work

DoubtfulBear said:

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sebstyle25 said:

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should it? Should beating a G5 team in a meaningless bowl game really atone for 8 years of losing conference records?

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UNLV is a pretty solid team, their only losses are to BSU and Syracuse in OT

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they've got a good, young OC.

CNHTH said:

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"One more final chance"

Ya'll sound like Robert Deniro in Casino and Wilmoe is Sharon f'ing Stone

Wake up!

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Sounds similar to the SMU death penalty. They seemed pretty alive yesterday.

calumnus said:

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1. Theoretically, Wilcox and Cal could negotiate his departure, both the amount and the payment terms. I think it would be parties interest to pay the $15 million (less an amount for abligation to mitigate) over a longer time frame.

2. Rivera is available, has said he wants to coach at Cal before he is done (ie now) and also should be willing to defer payments given he is a donor to Cal and is still being paid by the Commanders.

3. Cal's very survival as a program is at stake. Next year is a good opportunity to make a splash like SMU did. We may not get another chance. Wilcox would squander it like he did this year's opportunity. There have to be donors that recognize the opportunity and the peril if we stand pat with Wilcox and are willing to put up money to grease the skids.

So given the above, with a good, smart AD chances Wilcox comes back are no better than 50-50. However, Knowlton is not smart or good and the above would be admitting he made a mistake. I'd put the chances Wilcox comes back at 90%

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Always wonder about RR. I'm a big fan of his, first class guy, loves Cal. And yes he coached in the NFL. But the fact is he was a .500 coach. And we've learned that you can't take NFL results and just assume that at the college level things will get better. Watching Ron's coaching style over the years, I find in an eerie way that it was very similiar to what we're seeing with Wilcox now. No guarantee Ron would improve anything.

If Wilcox knew he was going to get fired next year (because he heard NIL was drying up, massive loss in talent, daunting schedule) then I can see him trying to pull a Jeff Hafley and leave to reset his coaching clock and avoid a firing on his resume.

But I have a feeling Wilcox thinks he can win next year so he isn't going do what Hafley did.

Joegeo said:

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If Wilcox knew he was going to get fired next year (because he heard NIL was drying up, massive loss in talent, daunting schedule) then I can see him trying to pull a Jeff Hafley and leave to reset his coaching clock and avoid a firing on his resume.

But I have a feeling Wilcox thinks he can win next year so he isn't going do what Hafley did.

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I think any upstanding coach (eg. Wilcox) who gets fired from Cal for strictly his record (eg. Wilcox) can get another D1 job because of the built in excuses: high academic standards, lowered available talent because of these standards, less monetary support for coaching pool and NIL compared to conference opponents.

82gradDLSdad said:

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Joegeo said:

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If Wilcox knew he was going to get fired next year (because he heard NIL was drying up, massive loss in talent, daunting schedule) then I can see him trying to pull a Jeff Hafley and leave to reset his coaching clock and avoid a firing on his resume.

But I have a feeling Wilcox thinks he can win next year so he isn't going do what Hafley did.

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I think any upstanding coach (eg. Wilcox) who gets fired from Cal for strictly his record (eg. Wilcox) can get another D1 job because of the built in excuses: high academic standards, lowered available talent because of these standards, less monetary support for coaching pool and NIL compared to conference opponents.

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If a Cal Head Coach gets fired for having Troy Taylor like seasons (3-9, 3-9), they might not get another D1 head coaching job right away. However, going 6-7 or 7-6 at Cal and then getting fired might not preclude a Cal Head Coach from being hired at what looks like a less challenging coaching job.

100%. Well 99.9999999% as there could always be a unicorn who swoops in. But while black swan events DO happen they are rare.

sebstyle25 said:

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should it? Should beating a G5 team in a meaningless bowl game really atone for 8 years of losing conference records?

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We're probably not beating them anyway.

Rushinbear said:

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bearsandgiants said:

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Only way he's gone, IMO, is if he wants to leave because he's embarrassed and is willing to take a smaller buyout than the 15MM still owed. I give that a 10% chance. Would be great. Probably blows up all recruiting efforts for next year though, we'd still have Knowlton, and frankly, I don't think it's a great idea. At least Lyons would have the final say on the hire. I think. Most likely, Wilcox gets next year to take this team to the ACC Championship game (and/or FBS playoff) with a big NIL budget. One more, final shot at glory. I think that's the plan, even though it likely fails. We probably lose Big Game for the first time in awhile next year, have another .500 season, and that result is the final straw, with Wilcox leaving in disgrace. Even if we do somehow have a breakout year next year (and we should given our schedule), we'll finish the year needing to do yet another extension. Imagine that scenario. Lol. If I were running things, I'd can Knowlton this winter, give Wilcox his playoff ultimatum and let the new AD know that's the case. Then spend the year putting together a list of best possible replacement candidates. If Wilcox somehow DOES pull a rabbit out of his hat and get us to a playoff, I'd give him a SIX year extension at 7.5MM per year, with 15MM guaranteed (so 2 years) and nothing better than that. Take it or leave it. It seems more than fair to me given his disastrous body of work. And if 3-4 years into that favorable-to-Cal extension, Wilcox keeps winning and wants to build a legacy here, then maybe we do a an additional 4 year guarantee with the next extension, but nothing more.

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we've had almost 6 mos. of Lyons in office. any read on him yet? or is he not exposing any hints? even moves on the academic side might give us something to interpret.

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He's been making the right noises about athletics being an important priority, but as you note we need to see some actions to really be able to judge.

Can we give Justin Wilcox a full and unconditional pardon for all happenings, known and unknown, that occurred in the years 2017 - 2024?

RedlessWardrobe said:

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calumnus said:

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1. Theoretically, Wilcox and Cal could negotiate his departure, both the amount and the payment terms. I think it would be parties interest to pay the $15 million (less an amount for abligation to mitigate) over a longer time frame.

2. Rivera is available, has said he wants to coach at Cal before he is done (ie now) and also should be willing to defer payments given he is a donor to Cal and is still being paid by the Commanders.

3. Cal's very survival as a program is at stake. Next year is a good opportunity to make a splash like SMU did. We may not get another chance. Wilcox would squander it like he did this year's opportunity. There have to be donors that recognize the opportunity and the peril if we stand pat with Wilcox and are willing to put up money to grease the skids.

So given the above, with a good, smart AD chances Wilcox comes back are no better than 50-50. However, Knowlton is not smart or good and the above would be admitting he made a mistake. I'd put the chances Wilcox comes back at 90%

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Always wonder about RR. I'm a big fan of his, first class guy, loves Cal. And yes he coached in the NFL. But the fact is he was a .500 coach. And we've learned that you can't take NFL results and just assume that at the college level things will get better. Watching Ron's coaching style over the years, I find in an eerie way that it was very similiar to what we're seeing with Wilcox now. No guarantee Ron would improve anything.

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Enthusiasm? NFL contacts? Assistants? Openness (Steve Jobs #1 attribute)?

Still, I think we should put him up against the best other candidates we can find.

RedlessWardrobe said:

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calumnus said:

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1. Theoretically, Wilcox and Cal could negotiate his departure, both the amount and the payment terms. I think it would be parties interest to pay the $15 million (less an amount for abligation to mitigate) over a longer time frame.

2. Rivera is available, has said he wants to coach at Cal before he is done (ie now) and also should be willing to defer payments given he is a donor to Cal and is still being paid by the Commanders.

3. Cal's very survival as a program is at stake. Next year is a good opportunity to make a splash like SMU did. We may not get another chance. Wilcox would squander it like he did this year's opportunity. There have to be donors that recognize the opportunity and the peril if we stand pat with Wilcox and are willing to put up money to grease the skids.

So given the above, with a good, smart AD chances Wilcox comes back are no better than 50-50. However, Knowlton is not smart or good and the above would be admitting he made a mistake. I'd put the chances Wilcox comes back at 90%

---

Always wonder about RR. I'm a big fan of his, first class guy, loves Cal. And yes he coached in the NFL. But the fact is he was a .500 coach. And we've learned that you can't take NFL results and just assume that at the college level things will get better. Watching Ron's coaching style over the years, I find in an eerie way that it was very similiar to what we're seeing with Wilcox now. No guarantee Ron would improve anything.

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Also the 1st round draft record was very bad in his time in Washington

calumnus said:

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RedlessWardrobe said:

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calumnus said:

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1. Theoretically, Wilcox and Cal could negotiate his departure, both the amount and the payment terms. I think it would be parties interest to pay the $15 million (less an amount for abligation to mitigate) over a longer time frame.

2. Rivera is available, has said he wants to coach at Cal before he is done (ie now) and also should be willing to defer payments given he is a donor to Cal and is still being paid by the Commanders.

3. Cal's very survival as a program is at stake. Next year is a good opportunity to make a splash like SMU did. We may not get another chance. Wilcox would squander it like he did this year's opportunity. There have to be donors that recognize the opportunity and the peril if we stand pat with Wilcox and are willing to put up money to grease the skids.

So given the above, with a good, smart AD chances Wilcox comes back are no better than 50-50. However, Knowlton is not smart or good and the above would be admitting he made a mistake. I'd put the chances Wilcox comes back at 90%

---

Always wonder about RR. I'm a big fan of his, first class guy, loves Cal. And yes he coached in the NFL. But the fact is he was a .500 coach. And we've learned that you can't take NFL results and just assume that at the college level things will get better. Watching Ron's coaching style over the years, I find in an eerie way that it was very similiar to what we're seeing with Wilcox now. No guarantee Ron would improve anything.

---

No hire is guaranteed, but you have to get rid of coaches that have proven over 8 years they are not capable of winning a conference or even finishing in the top half,

We cannot stick with Wilcox, the program will die. We need a change that will bring some excitement to the program, make a splash in the media and with recruits including inspiring alums to contribute NIL. Rivera brings that and given Wilcox's buyout he is the only candidate who can make that splash who might be willing to work with Cal and defer his payment.

No hire is guaranteed, but I am 100% confident we desperately need a change and that next year would be better with Rivera than Wilcox and I don't see any other similar option.

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I suppose that Knowlton could keep his job by firing JW and hiring Ron right away. We'd have a chance to be better than we are now. But, Knowlton's judgment of hc's is dreadful, so I wouldn't be too optimistic. Remember how excited we were with Kapp? Granted, the experience factor is way different, but the won/loss record is similar. Might depend on how much Ron would be given for assts. And, that might call the tune for whether Ron would end up taking the job after all.

Rushinbear said:

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calumnus said:

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RedlessWardrobe said:

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calumnus said:

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1. Theoretically, Wilcox and Cal could negotiate his departure, both the amount and the payment terms. I think it would be parties interest to pay the $15 million (less an amount for abligation to mitigate) over a longer time frame.

2. Rivera is available, has said he wants to coach at Cal before he is done (ie now) and also should be willing to defer payments given he is a donor to Cal and is still being paid by the Commanders.

3. Cal's very survival as a program is at stake. Next year is a good opportunity to make a splash like SMU did. We may not get another chance. Wilcox would squander it like he did this year's opportunity. There have to be donors that recognize the opportunity and the peril if we stand pat with Wilcox and are willing to put up money to grease the skids.

So given the above, with a good, smart AD chances Wilcox comes back are no better than 50-50. However, Knowlton is not smart or good and the above would be admitting he made a mistake. I'd put the chances Wilcox comes back at 90%

---

Always wonder about RR. I'm a big fan of his, first class guy, loves Cal. And yes he coached in the NFL. But the fact is he was a .500 coach. And we've learned that you can't take NFL results and just assume that at the college level things will get better. Watching Ron's coaching style over the years, I find in an eerie way that it was very similiar to what we're seeing with Wilcox now. No guarantee Ron would improve anything.

---

No hire is guaranteed, but you have to get rid of coaches that have proven over 8 years they are not capable of winning a conference or even finishing in the top half,

We cannot stick with Wilcox, the program will die. We need a change that will bring some excitement to the program, make a splash in the media and with recruits including inspiring alums to contribute NIL. Rivera brings that and given Wilcox's buyout he is the only candidate who can make that splash who might be willing to work with Cal and defer his payment.

No hire is guaranteed, but I am 100% confident we desperately need a change and that next year would be better with Rivera than Wilcox and I don't see any other similar option.

---

I suppose that Knowlton could keep his job by firing JW and hiring Ron right away. We'd have a chance to be better than we are now. But, Knowlton's judgment of hc's is dreadful, so I wouldn't be too optimistic. Remember how excited we were with Kapp? Granted, the experience factor is way different, but the won/loss record is similar. Might depend on how much Ron would be given for assts. And, that might call the tune for whether Ron would end up taking the job after all.

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Kapp had no head coaching experience so not comparable, except 1982 brought excitement and was a huge improvement over Theder. In our current situation that excitement is even more critical. However, Rivera has extensive HC experience and more likely than not can build on that excitement whereas Kapp's management failings became a problem quickly.

calumnus said:

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Rushinbear said:

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calumnus said:

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RedlessWardrobe said:

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calumnus said:

---

1. Theoretically, Wilcox and Cal could negotiate his departure, both the amount and the payment terms. I think it would be parties interest to pay the $15 million (less an amount for abligation to mitigate) over a longer time frame.

2. Rivera is available, has said he wants to coach at Cal before he is done (ie now) and also should be willing to defer payments given he is a donor to Cal and is still being paid by the Commanders.

3. Cal's very survival as a program is at stake. Next year is a good opportunity to make a splash like SMU did. We may not get another chance. Wilcox would squander it like he did this year's opportunity. There have to be donors that recognize the opportunity and the peril if we stand pat with Wilcox and are willing to put up money to grease the skids.

So given the above, with a good, smart AD chances Wilcox comes back are no better than 50-50. However, Knowlton is not smart or good and the above would be admitting he made a mistake. I'd put the chances Wilcox comes back at 90%

---

Always wonder about RR. I'm a big fan of his, first class guy, loves Cal. And yes he coached in the NFL. But the fact is he was a .500 coach. And we've learned that you can't take NFL results and just assume that at the college level things will get better. Watching Ron's coaching style over the years, I find in an eerie way that it was very similiar to what we're seeing with Wilcox now. No guarantee Ron would improve anything.

---

No hire is guaranteed, but you have to get rid of coaches that have proven over 8 years they are not capable of winning a conference or even finishing in the top half,

We cannot stick with Wilcox, the program will die. We need a change that will bring some excitement to the program, make a splash in the media and with recruits including inspiring alums to contribute NIL. Rivera brings that and given Wilcox's buyout he is the only candidate who can make that splash who might be willing to work with Cal and defer his payment.

No hire is guaranteed, but I am 100% confident we desperately need a change and that next year would be better with Rivera than Wilcox and I don't see any other similar option.

---

I suppose that Knowlton could keep his job by firing JW and hiring Ron right away. We'd have a chance to be better than we are now. But, Knowlton's judgment of hc's is dreadful, so I wouldn't be too optimistic. Remember how excited we were with Kapp? Granted, the experience factor is way different, but the won/loss record is similar. Might depend on how much Ron would be given for assts. And, that might call the tune for whether Ron would end up taking the job after all.

---

Kapp had no head coaching experience so not comparable, except 1982 brought excitement and was a huge improvement over Theder. In our current situation that excitement is even more critical. However, Rivera has extensive HC experience and more likely than not can build on that excitement whereas Kapp's management failings became a problem quickly.

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I'm not in the excitement camp. I'm in the Tedford/Snyder hire camp. Very solid coaches who had good backgrounds and connections in the football world. You have to be able to hire solid assistants. I'll admit, I don't know the recruiting world these days so my kind of guy may not be the best. I also know that there is no way Knowlton can make this hire. We definitely need a new AD or maybe a Rivera type who knows the environment. I'm not positive about him as head coach but I wouldn't have a problem with him in a GM type role for Cal football even if it was just for the head coach hiring phase. I'm not so sure D1 schools looking to compete in the football/basketball world don't need separate GMs separate from an AD that runs the other sports. Too much money is at play. And I'll admit again I'm talking out my ass here.

HKBear97! said:

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Anarchistbear said:

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Strykur said:

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The bowl game could determine a lot

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It's an exhibition game. Nobody cares. Bowl eligible and beating Stanford are what matters

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This. Bowl eligibility and beating Stanford is a very successful year for Cal football. National relevance is simply not realistic - just be grateful the program still exists thanks to the ACC. Not only is Wilcox back next year, but I wouldn't be terribly surprised if the AD somehow arranges an extension.

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We could extend Wilcox to 2035 for all I care, as long as the extension was "cosmetic" only.