ducktilldeath said:

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01Bear said:

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ducktilldeath said:

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01Bear said:

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ducktilldeath said:

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01Bear said:

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4thGenCal said:

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01Bear said:

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calumnus said:

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01Bear said:

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kal kommie said:

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CNHTH said:

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kal kommie said:

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F*** Tosh

---

But not f*** Wilmoe who was the only one on Sark's staff who even knew tosh?
As I said before I can almost guarantee wilmoe's contract at udubb was tied to luring away tosh / some sort of recruiting milestone payout aka "I know a guy from my time at cal who is a master recruiter I'll see if the fuskies will buy him a houseboat"
Sorry but I've never understood those who blast tosh on one hand and then defend the ****tiest coach in our history who was instrumental in poaching tosh and just conned our hapless ad into one of the top 5 most ****ty contracts in the history of contracts.

---

Why do you assume these are mutually exclusive? I've wanted Wilcox fired for years.

But it's ridiculous to see people even try to draw an equivalence between Tosh and Wilcox here. Tosh was Benedict Arnold. Wilcox was some British general who helped his superiors recruit a traitor to benefit their own side.

No Tosh under any circumstances. Just say no to traitors. Maybe that's a simpleton rule but I do think some things aren't complicated.

---

Also, Wilcox didn't take Cal's money and burn Cal's only permissible visit to a star recruit's home to tell him to sign with another school.

---

Wilcox took the UW DC job and hired Tosh as his DL coach the week (?) before LOI day without informing Tedford, who gave him his first coaching job, and had Tosh start recruiting right away, who else was Tosh going to recruit but the same guys he had been recruiting? Of course Wilcox knew what was happening, he isn't that clueless. The Thompson family credits Wilcox for flipping Shaq.

---

Again, did Wilcox take Cal's money to fund a recruiting trip for UW?

Wilcox did what he was supposed to do, which was hire the best available assistants he could. Tosh, OTOH, used a trip Cal paid for to visit a recruit (IIRC, it was Shaq Thompson, but I could be mistaken) and convince him to go to UW instead of Cal. This not only was double dealing of the worst sort, but it also burned Cal's (IIRC only permissible) home visit to the recruit's family.

Had Tosh just resigned before the trip and not used Cal's trip to recruit on behalf of UW, no harm no foul. But he didn't have the moral fiber to do that. He screwed Cal and Tedford (even after Tedford went to bat for him and matched the salary UW offered).

---

Facts: 1) Injury gate" was ordered by the then DC who told Tosh to do it - Tosh did not want to do it, but after being ordered to twice, He complied. Afterwards the Conf commish told the AD simply to either suspend a coach for one game and if refused He would personally suspend Tedford. Tedford then chose to suspend Tosh (not the DC) only problem was he did Not notify Tosh of his one game suspension quick enough. Tosh found out via a reporter calling Tosh directly to get his take on the penalty! How unprofessional was that? This Info straight from Tosh to me. Tosh watched the game from Tightwad Hill. 2) Tedford only at the 11th hour matched Sark salary - I know because Tedford called me to explain why He was not going to match the initial salary request (Tedford said not fair to his more tenured coaches who had 5-9 years more team coaching experience to be paid less than Tosh. In particular Tedford said the KT the LB coach would not like a younger coach being paid more. I told him that Tosh is bringing in these program changing key recruits and therefore worth it.Tedford insisted that the key recruits were "the result of multiple coaches efforts! (totally wrong). Tosh's salary was approx $135k and only when Tosh explained that Sark had offered $235k did Tedford come up to match. However the same day Sark then went much higher with $285k and additional perks for Tosh that included others close to him did Tosh change direction and took the substantially higher offer. Tosh went back and forth, yes left us and yes convinced those very "team recruited players" with him. Life is tough, He looked out for himself. Could have it been handled better on both sides? Yes. But to somehow paint Tosh as this terrible guy is off base - He has always loved his alma mater. I do believe He would come back with the right package. And there is no question Cal would win under his leadership.

---

Serious question, did Tosh tell a recruit to go to UW while on a recruiting trip paid for by Cal? If so, what does this say about him and what does it say about his alleged love of Cal?

---

Your current head coach asked him to. Why is that hard to comprehend? If the argument against Tosh is that he "betrayed" CAL, Golden Bear fans could spit and hit the guy who was complicit.

---

I don't defend Wilcox. I want him gone.

That said, Wilcox did what he was supposed to do as an employee of UW. He hired the best assistants he could. He also persuaded an impressionable young man (I'm being generous here instead saying what I really think of him) to go on a recruiting trip on Cal's dime but to recruit for UW.

Again, if Tosh had just resigned earlier and not traveled on Cal's dime as a Cal employee and then told a Cal recruit to play for a rival, then there's no problem. Tosh was doing what he should, which was to maximize his earnings while young. But the fact of the matter is, Tosh did not resign from Cal before recruiting against Cal.

I'm not sure, but I've not seen a Tosh apologist explain away that. I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that was beyond the pale.

---

Life is hard. The big fish eat the little ones. Etc, etc, etc. What's really awful is all the people lying to themselves saying they're morally superior.

---

So your defense of Tosh is what, exactly?

No one ever claimed life is easy. That's just an entirely non sequitor strawman.

---

It's big boy college athletics. Put on your hard hat or stop complaining that some mean evil man hurt CAL.

---

Again, you're making a strawman argument. No one argued that some evil man hurt Cal. The criticisms are over Tosh's behavior.

I guess it's a little too much to ask an Oregon alum to understand that there are right and wrong ways to behave (especially in the professional arena). No one ever claimed the Ducks of being ethical.

01Bear said:

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ducktilldeath said:

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01Bear said:

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ducktilldeath said:

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01Bear said:

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ducktilldeath said:

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01Bear said:

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4thGenCal said:

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01Bear said:

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calumnus said:

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01Bear said:

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kal kommie said:

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CNHTH said:

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kal kommie said:

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F*** Tosh

---

But not f*** Wilmoe who was the only one on Sark's staff who even knew tosh?
As I said before I can almost guarantee wilmoe's contract at udubb was tied to luring away tosh / some sort of recruiting milestone payout aka "I know a guy from my time at cal who is a master recruiter I'll see if the fuskies will buy him a houseboat"
Sorry but I've never understood those who blast tosh on one hand and then defend the ****tiest coach in our history who was instrumental in poaching tosh and just conned our hapless ad into one of the top 5 most ****ty contracts in the history of contracts.

---

Why do you assume these are mutually exclusive? I've wanted Wilcox fired for years.

But it's ridiculous to see people even try to draw an equivalence between Tosh and Wilcox here. Tosh was Benedict Arnold. Wilcox was some British general who helped his superiors recruit a traitor to benefit their own side.

No Tosh under any circumstances. Just say no to traitors. Maybe that's a simpleton rule but I do think some things aren't complicated.

---

Also, Wilcox didn't take Cal's money and burn Cal's only permissible visit to a star recruit's home to tell him to sign with another school.

---

Wilcox took the UW DC job and hired Tosh as his DL coach the week (?) before LOI day without informing Tedford, who gave him his first coaching job, and had Tosh start recruiting right away, who else was Tosh going to recruit but the same guys he had been recruiting? Of course Wilcox knew what was happening, he isn't that clueless. The Thompson family credits Wilcox for flipping Shaq.

---

Again, did Wilcox take Cal's money to fund a recruiting trip for UW?

Wilcox did what he was supposed to do, which was hire the best available assistants he could. Tosh, OTOH, used a trip Cal paid for to visit a recruit (IIRC, it was Shaq Thompson, but I could be mistaken) and convince him to go to UW instead of Cal. This not only was double dealing of the worst sort, but it also burned Cal's (IIRC only permissible) home visit to the recruit's family.

Had Tosh just resigned before the trip and not used Cal's trip to recruit on behalf of UW, no harm no foul. But he didn't have the moral fiber to do that. He screwed Cal and Tedford (even after Tedford went to bat for him and matched the salary UW offered).

---

Facts: 1) Injury gate" was ordered by the then DC who told Tosh to do it - Tosh did not want to do it, but after being ordered to twice, He complied. Afterwards the Conf commish told the AD simply to either suspend a coach for one game and if refused He would personally suspend Tedford. Tedford then chose to suspend Tosh (not the DC) only problem was he did Not notify Tosh of his one game suspension quick enough. Tosh found out via a reporter calling Tosh directly to get his take on the penalty! How unprofessional was that? This Info straight from Tosh to me. Tosh watched the game from Tightwad Hill. 2) Tedford only at the 11th hour matched Sark salary - I know because Tedford called me to explain why He was not going to match the initial salary request (Tedford said not fair to his more tenured coaches who had 5-9 years more team coaching experience to be paid less than Tosh. In particular Tedford said the KT the LB coach would not like a younger coach being paid more. I told him that Tosh is bringing in these program changing key recruits and therefore worth it.Tedford insisted that the key recruits were "the result of multiple coaches efforts! (totally wrong). Tosh's salary was approx $135k and only when Tosh explained that Sark had offered $235k did Tedford come up to match. However the same day Sark then went much higher with $285k and additional perks for Tosh that included others close to him did Tosh change direction and took the substantially higher offer. Tosh went back and forth, yes left us and yes convinced those very "team recruited players" with him. Life is tough, He looked out for himself. Could have it been handled better on both sides? Yes. But to somehow paint Tosh as this terrible guy is off base - He has always loved his alma mater. I do believe He would come back with the right package. And there is no question Cal would win under his leadership.

---

Serious question, did Tosh tell a recruit to go to UW while on a recruiting trip paid for by Cal? If so, what does this say about him and what does it say about his alleged love of Cal?

---

Your current head coach asked him to. Why is that hard to comprehend? If the argument against Tosh is that he "betrayed" CAL, Golden Bear fans could spit and hit the guy who was complicit.

---

I don't defend Wilcox. I want him gone.

That said, Wilcox did what he was supposed to do as an employee of UW. He hired the best assistants he could. He also persuaded an impressionable young man (I'm being generous here instead saying what I really think of him) to go on a recruiting trip on Cal's dime but to recruit for UW.

Again, if Tosh had just resigned earlier and not traveled on Cal's dime as a Cal employee and then told a Cal recruit to play for a rival, then there's no problem. Tosh was doing what he should, which was to maximize his earnings while young. But the fact of the matter is, Tosh did not resign from Cal before recruiting against Cal.

I'm not sure, but I've not seen a Tosh apologist explain away that. I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that was beyond the pale.

---

Life is hard. The big fish eat the little ones. Etc, etc, etc. What's really awful is all the people lying to themselves saying they're morally superior.

---

So your defense of Tosh is what, exactly?

No one ever claimed life is easy. That's just an entirely non sequitor strawman.

---

It's big boy college athletics. Put on your hard hat or stop complaining that some mean evil man hurt CAL.

---

Again, you're making a strawman argument. No one argued that some evil man hurt Cal. The criticisms are over Tosh's behavior.

I guess it's a little too much to ask an Oregon alum to understand that there are right and wrong ways to behave (especially in the professional arena). No one ever claimed the Ducks of being ethical.

---

What a laughable response. He recruited players to UW while still employed by CAL. It was business. People are acting like he's the scum of the earth.

At oregon athletics are the priority

Oski87 said:

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ducktilldeath said:

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01Bear said:

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ducktilldeath said:

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01Bear said:

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ducktilldeath said:

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01Bear said:

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ducktilldeath said:

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01Bear said:

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4thGenCal said:

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01Bear said:

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calumnus said:

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01Bear said:

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kal kommie said:

---

CNHTH said:

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kal kommie said:

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F*** Tosh

---

But not f*** Wilmoe who was the only one on Sark's staff who even knew tosh?
As I said before I can almost guarantee wilmoe's contract at udubb was tied to luring away tosh / some sort of recruiting milestone payout aka "I know a guy from my time at cal who is a master recruiter I'll see if the fuskies will buy him a houseboat"
Sorry but I've never understood those who blast tosh on one hand and then defend the ****tiest coach in our history who was instrumental in poaching tosh and just conned our hapless ad into one of the top 5 most ****ty contracts in the history of contracts.

---

Why do you assume these are mutually exclusive? I've wanted Wilcox fired for years.

But it's ridiculous to see people even try to draw an equivalence between Tosh and Wilcox here. Tosh was Benedict Arnold. Wilcox was some British general who helped his superiors recruit a traitor to benefit their own side.

No Tosh under any circumstances. Just say no to traitors. Maybe that's a simpleton rule but I do think some things aren't complicated.

---

Also, Wilcox didn't take Cal's money and burn Cal's only permissible visit to a star recruit's home to tell him to sign with another school.

---

Wilcox took the UW DC job and hired Tosh as his DL coach the week (?) before LOI day without informing Tedford, who gave him his first coaching job, and had Tosh start recruiting right away, who else was Tosh going to recruit but the same guys he had been recruiting? Of course Wilcox knew what was happening, he isn't that clueless. The Thompson family credits Wilcox for flipping Shaq.

---

Again, did Wilcox take Cal's money to fund a recruiting trip for UW?

Wilcox did what he was supposed to do, which was hire the best available assistants he could. Tosh, OTOH, used a trip Cal paid for to visit a recruit (IIRC, it was Shaq Thompson, but I could be mistaken) and convince him to go to UW instead of Cal. This not only was double dealing of the worst sort, but it also burned Cal's (IIRC only permissible) home visit to the recruit's family.

Had Tosh just resigned before the trip and not used Cal's trip to recruit on behalf of UW, no harm no foul. But he didn't have the moral fiber to do that. He screwed Cal and Tedford (even after Tedford went to bat for him and matched the salary UW offered).

---

Facts: 1) Injury gate" was ordered by the then DC who told Tosh to do it - Tosh did not want to do it, but after being ordered to twice, He complied. Afterwards the Conf commish told the AD simply to either suspend a coach for one game and if refused He would personally suspend Tedford. Tedford then chose to suspend Tosh (not the DC) only problem was he did Not notify Tosh of his one game suspension quick enough. Tosh found out via a reporter calling Tosh directly to get his take on the penalty! How unprofessional was that? This Info straight from Tosh to me. Tosh watched the game from Tightwad Hill. 2) Tedford only at the 11th hour matched Sark salary - I know because Tedford called me to explain why He was not going to match the initial salary request (Tedford said not fair to his more tenured coaches who had 5-9 years more team coaching experience to be paid less than Tosh. In particular Tedford said the KT the LB coach would not like a younger coach being paid more. I told him that Tosh is bringing in these program changing key recruits and therefore worth it.Tedford insisted that the key recruits were "the result of multiple coaches efforts! (totally wrong). Tosh's salary was approx $135k and only when Tosh explained that Sark had offered $235k did Tedford come up to match. However the same day Sark then went much higher with $285k and additional perks for Tosh that included others close to him did Tosh change direction and took the substantially higher offer. Tosh went back and forth, yes left us and yes convinced those very "team recruited players" with him. Life is tough, He looked out for himself. Could have it been handled better on both sides? Yes. But to somehow paint Tosh as this terrible guy is off base - He has always loved his alma mater. I do believe He would come back with the right package. And there is no question Cal would win under his leadership.

---

Serious question, did Tosh tell a recruit to go to UW while on a recruiting trip paid for by Cal? If so, what does this say about him and what does it say about his alleged love of Cal?

---

Your current head coach asked him to. Why is that hard to comprehend? If the argument against Tosh is that he "betrayed" CAL, Golden Bear fans could spit and hit the guy who was complicit.

---

I don't defend Wilcox. I want him gone.

That said, Wilcox did what he was supposed to do as an employee of UW. He hired the best assistants he could. He also persuaded an impressionable young man (I'm being generous here instead saying what I really think of him) to go on a recruiting trip on Cal's dime but to recruit for UW.

Again, if Tosh had just resigned earlier and not traveled on Cal's dime as a Cal employee and then told a Cal recruit to play for a rival, then there's no problem. Tosh was doing what he should, which was to maximize his earnings while young. But the fact of the matter is, Tosh did not resign from Cal before recruiting against Cal.

I'm not sure, but I've not seen a Tosh apologist explain away that. I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that was beyond the pale.

---

Life is hard. The big fish eat the little ones. Etc, etc, etc. What's really awful is all the people lying to themselves saying they're morally superior.

---

So your defense of Tosh is what, exactly?

No one ever claimed life is easy. That's just an entirely non sequitor strawman.

---

It's big boy college athletics. Put on your hard hat or stop complaining that some mean evil man hurt CAL.

---

Again, you're making a strawman argument. No one argued that some evil man hurt Cal. The criticisms are over Tosh's behavior.

I guess it's a little too much to ask an Oregon alum to understand that there are right and wrong ways to behave (especially in the professional arena). No one ever claimed the Ducks of being ethical.

---

What a laughable response. He recruited players to UW while still employed by CAL. It was business. People are acting like he's the scum of the earth.

---

It was childish., immature and stupid, and caused a rift to his Alma Mater. It's one thing to leave, another to do what he did. But it was a long time ago and people change. I mean, if that was some of the employers I worked for, they would have sued him for misusing company property and lack of fidelity and duty of loyalty. Not a criminal offense but certainly actionable. The question is can you trust him, now. And the answer is apparently not for most people. End of story.

---

Have you ever been childish, immature, or stupid?

ducktilldeath said:

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Oski87 said:

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ducktilldeath said:

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01Bear said:

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ducktilldeath said:

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01Bear said:

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ducktilldeath said:

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01Bear said:

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ducktilldeath said:

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01Bear said:

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4thGenCal said:

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01Bear said:

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calumnus said:

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01Bear said:

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kal kommie said:

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CNHTH said:

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kal kommie said:

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F*** Tosh

---

But not f*** Wilmoe who was the only one on Sark's staff who even knew tosh?
As I said before I can almost guarantee wilmoe's contract at udubb was tied to luring away tosh / some sort of recruiting milestone payout aka "I know a guy from my time at cal who is a master recruiter I'll see if the fuskies will buy him a houseboat"
Sorry but I've never understood those who blast tosh on one hand and then defend the ****tiest coach in our history who was instrumental in poaching tosh and just conned our hapless ad into one of the top 5 most ****ty contracts in the history of contracts.

---

Why do you assume these are mutually exclusive? I've wanted Wilcox fired for years.

But it's ridiculous to see people even try to draw an equivalence between Tosh and Wilcox here. Tosh was Benedict Arnold. Wilcox was some British general who helped his superiors recruit a traitor to benefit their own side.

No Tosh under any circumstances. Just say no to traitors. Maybe that's a simpleton rule but I do think some things aren't complicated.

---

Also, Wilcox didn't take Cal's money and burn Cal's only permissible visit to a star recruit's home to tell him to sign with another school.

---

Wilcox took the UW DC job and hired Tosh as his DL coach the week (?) before LOI day without informing Tedford, who gave him his first coaching job, and had Tosh start recruiting right away, who else was Tosh going to recruit but the same guys he had been recruiting? Of course Wilcox knew what was happening, he isn't that clueless. The Thompson family credits Wilcox for flipping Shaq.

---

Again, did Wilcox take Cal's money to fund a recruiting trip for UW?

Wilcox did what he was supposed to do, which was hire the best available assistants he could. Tosh, OTOH, used a trip Cal paid for to visit a recruit (IIRC, it was Shaq Thompson, but I could be mistaken) and convince him to go to UW instead of Cal. This not only was double dealing of the worst sort, but it also burned Cal's (IIRC only permissible) home visit to the recruit's family.

Had Tosh just resigned before the trip and not used Cal's trip to recruit on behalf of UW, no harm no foul. But he didn't have the moral fiber to do that. He screwed Cal and Tedford (even after Tedford went to bat for him and matched the salary UW offered).

---

Facts: 1) Injury gate" was ordered by the then DC who told Tosh to do it - Tosh did not want to do it, but after being ordered to twice, He complied. Afterwards the Conf commish told the AD simply to either suspend a coach for one game and if refused He would personally suspend Tedford. Tedford then chose to suspend Tosh (not the DC) only problem was he did Not notify Tosh of his one game suspension quick enough. Tosh found out via a reporter calling Tosh directly to get his take on the penalty! How unprofessional was that? This Info straight from Tosh to me. Tosh watched the game from Tightwad Hill. 2) Tedford only at the 11th hour matched Sark salary - I know because Tedford called me to explain why He was not going to match the initial salary request (Tedford said not fair to his more tenured coaches who had 5-9 years more team coaching experience to be paid less than Tosh. In particular Tedford said the KT the LB coach would not like a younger coach being paid more. I told him that Tosh is bringing in these program changing key recruits and therefore worth it.Tedford insisted that the key recruits were "the result of multiple coaches efforts! (totally wrong). Tosh's salary was approx $135k and only when Tosh explained that Sark had offered $235k did Tedford come up to match. However the same day Sark then went much higher with $285k and additional perks for Tosh that included others close to him did Tosh change direction and took the substantially higher offer. Tosh went back and forth, yes left us and yes convinced those very "team recruited players" with him. Life is tough, He looked out for himself. Could have it been handled better on both sides? Yes. But to somehow paint Tosh as this terrible guy is off base - He has always loved his alma mater. I do believe He would come back with the right package. And there is no question Cal would win under his leadership.

---

Serious question, did Tosh tell a recruit to go to UW while on a recruiting trip paid for by Cal? If so, what does this say about him and what does it say about his alleged love of Cal?

---

Your current head coach asked him to. Why is that hard to comprehend? If the argument against Tosh is that he "betrayed" CAL, Golden Bear fans could spit and hit the guy who was complicit.

---

I don't defend Wilcox. I want him gone.

That said, Wilcox did what he was supposed to do as an employee of UW. He hired the best assistants he could. He also persuaded an impressionable young man (I'm being generous here instead saying what I really think of him) to go on a recruiting trip on Cal's dime but to recruit for UW.

Again, if Tosh had just resigned earlier and not traveled on Cal's dime as a Cal employee and then told a Cal recruit to play for a rival, then there's no problem. Tosh was doing what he should, which was to maximize his earnings while young. But the fact of the matter is, Tosh did not resign from Cal before recruiting against Cal.

I'm not sure, but I've not seen a Tosh apologist explain away that. I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that was beyond the pale.

---

Life is hard. The big fish eat the little ones. Etc, etc, etc. What's really awful is all the people lying to themselves saying they're morally superior.

---

So your defense of Tosh is what, exactly?

No one ever claimed life is easy. That's just an entirely non sequitor strawman.

---

It's big boy college athletics. Put on your hard hat or stop complaining that some mean evil man hurt CAL.

---

Again, you're making a strawman argument. No one argued that some evil man hurt Cal. The criticisms are over Tosh's behavior.

I guess it's a little too much to ask an Oregon alum to understand that there are right and wrong ways to behave (especially in the professional arena). No one ever claimed the Ducks of being ethical.

---

What a laughable response. He recruited players to UW while still employed by CAL. It was business. People are acting like he's the scum of the earth.

---

It was childish., immature and stupid, and caused a rift to his Alma Mater. It's one thing to leave, another to do what he did. But it was a long time ago and people change. I mean, if that was some of the employers I worked for, they would have sued him for misusing company property and lack of fidelity and duty of loyalty. Not a criminal offense but certainly actionable. The question is can you trust him, now. And the answer is apparently not for most people. End of story.

---

Have you ever been childish, immature, or stupid?

---

Many have, on occasion been immature. But disloyal is another thing.

A lot of interesting comments in this thread

ducky23 said:

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I think it's important to remember that neither Tedford or Wilcox were paragons of virtue here, and yet it's Tosh who always gets all the blame.

Tedford was supposed to be the adult in the room. And he's the one who screwed tosh by throwing him under the bus and then failing to compensate him properly. If I'm a young guy like Tosh, yeah maybe I do react a bit immaturely if I have the chance to get back at my boss.

I think when you're young, you make mistakes. Especially when you're the one being screwed first by people who you believed you could trust

---

so, let's hear what Tosh has to say about it now. it may be that that's just who he is.

More people should put this simple troll on ignore.

lol, ok

The spirit of "How dare you not want one of our coaches because of how he significantly negatively affected your program?" is one of the great all time gripes on this board.

Solid work.

DoubtfulBear said:

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82gradDLSdad said:

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Rushinbear said:

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ducktilldeath said:

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01Bear said:

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ducktilldeath said:

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01Bear said:

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ducktilldeath said:

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01Bear said:

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ducktilldeath said:

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01Bear said:

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4thGenCal said:

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01Bear said:

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calumnus said:

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01Bear said:

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kal kommie said:

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CNHTH said:

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kal kommie said:

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F*** Tosh

---

But not f*** Wilmoe who was the only one on Sark's staff who even knew tosh?
As I said before I can almost guarantee wilmoe's contract at udubb was tied to luring away tosh / some sort of recruiting milestone payout aka "I know a guy from my time at cal who is a master recruiter I'll see if the fuskies will buy him a houseboat"
Sorry but I've never understood those who blast tosh on one hand and then defend the ****tiest coach in our history who was instrumental in poaching tosh and just conned our hapless ad into one of the top 5 most ****ty contracts in the history of contracts.

---

Why do you assume these are mutually exclusive? I've wanted Wilcox fired for years.

But it's ridiculous to see people even try to draw an equivalence between Tosh and Wilcox here. Tosh was Benedict Arnold. Wilcox was some British general who helped his superiors recruit a traitor to benefit their own side.

No Tosh under any circumstances. Just say no to traitors. Maybe that's a simpleton rule but I do think some things aren't complicated.

---

Also, Wilcox didn't take Cal's money and burn Cal's only permissible visit to a star recruit's home to tell him to sign with another school. %A0

---

Wilcox took the UW DC job and hired Tosh as his DL coach the week (?) before LOI day without informing Tedford, who gave him his first coaching job, and had Tosh start recruiting right away, who else was Tosh going to recruit but the same guys he had been recruiting? %A0Of course Wilcox knew what was happening, he isn't that clueless. The Thompson family credits Wilcox for flipping Shaq.

---

Again, did Wilcox take Cal's money to fund a recruiting trip for UW? %A0

Wilcox did what he was supposed to do, which was hire the best available assistants he could. %A0Tosh, OTOH, used a trip Cal paid for to visit a recruit (IIRC, it was Shaq Thompson, but I could be mistaken) and convince him to go to UW instead of Cal. %A0This not only was double dealing of the worst sort, but it also burned Cal's (IIRC only permissible) home visit to the recruit's family.

Had Tosh just resigned before the trip and not used Cal's trip to recruit on behalf of UW, no harm no foul. %A0But he didn't have the moral fiber to do that. %A0He screwed Cal and Tedford (even after Tedford went to bat for him and matched the salary UW offered). %A0

---

Facts: 1) Injury gate" was ordered by the then DC who told Tosh to do it - Tosh did not want to do it, but after being ordered to twice, He complied. %A0Afterwards the Conf commish told the AD simply to either suspend a coach for one game and if refused He would personally suspend Tedford. %A0Tedford then chose to suspend Tosh (not the DC) only problem was he did Not notify Tosh of his one game suspension quick enough. Tosh found out via a reporter calling Tosh directly to get his take on the penalty! %A0How unprofessional was that? This Info straight from Tosh to me. Tosh watched the game from Tightwad Hill. 2) Tedford only at the 11th hour matched Sark salary - I know because Tedford called me to explain why He was not going to match the initial salary request (Tedford said not fair to his more tenured coaches who had 5-9 years more team coaching experience to be paid less than Tosh. In particular Tedford said the KT the LB coach would not like a younger coach being paid more. I told him that Tosh is bringing in these program changing key recruits and therefore worth it.Tedford insisted that the key recruits were "the result of multiple coaches efforts! (totally wrong). Tosh's salary was approx $135k and only when Tosh explained that Sark had offered $235k did Tedford come up to match. However the same day Sark then went much higher with $285k and additional perks for Tosh that included others close to him did Tosh change direction and took the substantially higher offer. %A0Tosh went back and forth, yes left us and yes convinced those very "team recruited players" with him. %A0Life is tough, He looked out for himself. %A0Could have it been handled better on both sides? Yes. %A0But to somehow paint Tosh as this terrible guy is off base - He has always loved his alma mater. I do believe He would come back with the right package. %A0And there is no question Cal would win under his leadership.

---

Serious question, did Tosh tell a recruit to go to UW while on a recruiting trip paid for by Cal? %A0If so, what does this say about him and what does it say about his alleged love of Cal?

---

Your current head coach asked him to. Why is that hard to comprehend? If the argument against Tosh is that he "betrayed" CAL, Golden Bear fans could spit and hit the guy who was complicit.

---

I don't defend Wilcox. %A0I want him gone.

That said, Wilcox did what he was supposed to do as an employee of UW. %A0He hired the best assistants he could. %A0He also persuaded an impressionable young man (I'm being generous here instead saying what I really think of him) to go on a recruiting trip on Cal's dime but to recruit for UW. %A0

Again, if Tosh had just resigned earlier and not traveled on Cal's dime as a Cal employee and then told a Cal recruit to play for a rival, then there's no problem. %A0Tosh was doing what he should, which was to maximize his earnings while young. %A0But the fact of the matter is, Tosh did not resign from Cal before recruiting against Cal. %A0

I'm not sure, but I've not seen a Tosh apologist explain away that. %A0I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that was beyond the pale. %A0

---

Life is hard. The big fish eat the little ones. Etc, etc, etc. What's really awful is all the people lying to themselves saying they're morally superior.

---

So your defense of Tosh is what, exactly? %A0

No one ever claimed life is easy. %A0That's just an entirely non sequitor strawman. %A0

---

It's big boy college athletics. Put on your hard hat or stop complaining that some mean evil man hurt CAL.

---

Again, you're making a strawman argument. %A0No one argued that some evil man hurt Cal. %A0The criticisms are over Tosh's behavior. %A0

I guess it's a little too much to ask an Oregon alum to understand that there are right and wrong ways to behave (especially in the professional arena). %A0No one ever claimed the Ducks of being ethical.

---

What a laughable response. He recruited players to UW while still employed by CAL. It was business. People are acting like he's the scum of the earth.

---

The story is that Tedford left the kid's house after a recruiting meeting and Tosh stayed behind on a flimsy pretext. Tosh had already been hired by UW and Tedford knew nothing about it. Knifed in the back.

If that's business to you, it's monkey business.

---

Everyone knows that the biggest donor to Oregon made his money largely on the back of illegal labor practices...for decades. What else do you expect ducktillcaught to post? All's fair, in everything.

---

there is not a single billionaire in the history of the world that is a paragon of virtue. You either lie and cheat to get to the top or you accept being middle class and forgettable, kind of like 6-6 Cal

---

I await your book.

82gradDLSdad said:

---

DoubtfulBear said:

---

82gradDLSdad said:

---

Rushinbear said:

---

ducktilldeath said:

---

01Bear said:

---

ducktilldeath said:

---

01Bear said:

---

ducktilldeath said:

---

01Bear said:

---

ducktilldeath said:

---

01Bear said:

---

4thGenCal said:

---

01Bear said:

---

calumnus said:

---

01Bear said:

---

kal kommie said:

---

CNHTH said:

---

kal kommie said:

---

F*** Tosh

---

But not f*** Wilmoe who was the only one on Sark's staff who even knew tosh?
As I said before I can almost guarantee wilmoe's contract at udubb was tied to luring away tosh / some sort of recruiting milestone payout aka "I know a guy from my time at cal who is a master recruiter I'll see if the fuskies will buy him a houseboat"
Sorry but I've never understood those who blast tosh on one hand and then defend the ****tiest coach in our history who was instrumental in poaching tosh and just conned our hapless ad into one of the top 5 most ****ty contracts in the history of contracts.

---

Why do you assume these are mutually exclusive? I've wanted Wilcox fired for years.

But it's ridiculous to see people even try to draw an equivalence between Tosh and Wilcox here. Tosh was Benedict Arnold. Wilcox was some British general who helped his superiors recruit a traitor to benefit their own side.

No Tosh under any circumstances. Just say no to traitors. Maybe that's a simpleton rule but I do think some things aren't complicated.

---

Also, Wilcox didn't take Cal's money and burn Cal's only permissible visit to a star recruit's home to tell him to sign with another school. %A0

---

Wilcox took the UW DC job and hired Tosh as his DL coach the week (?) before LOI day without informing Tedford, who gave him his first coaching job, and had Tosh start recruiting right away, who else was Tosh going to recruit but the same guys he had been recruiting? %A0Of course Wilcox knew what was happening, he isn't that clueless. The Thompson family credits Wilcox for flipping Shaq.

---

Again, did Wilcox take Cal's money to fund a recruiting trip for UW? %A0

Wilcox did what he was supposed to do, which was hire the best available assistants he could. %A0Tosh, OTOH, used a trip Cal paid for to visit a recruit (IIRC, it was Shaq Thompson, but I could be mistaken) and convince him to go to UW instead of Cal. %A0This not only was double dealing of the worst sort, but it also burned Cal's (IIRC only permissible) home visit to the recruit's family.

Had Tosh just resigned before the trip and not used Cal's trip to recruit on behalf of UW, no harm no foul. %A0But he didn't have the moral fiber to do that. %A0He screwed Cal and Tedford (even after Tedford went to bat for him and matched the salary UW offered). %A0

---

Facts: 1) Injury gate" was ordered by the then DC who told Tosh to do it - Tosh did not want to do it, but after being ordered to twice, He complied. %A0Afterwards the Conf commish told the AD simply to either suspend a coach for one game and if refused He would personally suspend Tedford. %A0Tedford then chose to suspend Tosh (not the DC) only problem was he did Not notify Tosh of his one game suspension quick enough. Tosh found out via a reporter calling Tosh directly to get his take on the penalty! %A0How unprofessional was that? This Info straight from Tosh to me. Tosh watched the game from Tightwad Hill. 2) Tedford only at the 11th hour matched Sark salary - I know because Tedford called me to explain why He was not going to match the initial salary request (Tedford said not fair to his more tenured coaches who had 5-9 years more team coaching experience to be paid less than Tosh. In particular Tedford said the KT the LB coach would not like a younger coach being paid more. I told him that Tosh is bringing in these program changing key recruits and therefore worth it.Tedford insisted that the key recruits were "the result of multiple coaches efforts! (totally wrong). Tosh's salary was approx $135k and only when Tosh explained that Sark had offered $235k did Tedford come up to match. However the same day Sark then went much higher with $285k and additional perks for Tosh that included others close to him did Tosh change direction and took the substantially higher offer. %A0Tosh went back and forth, yes left us and yes convinced those very "team recruited players" with him. %A0Life is tough, He looked out for himself. %A0Could have it been handled better on both sides? Yes. %A0But to somehow paint Tosh as this terrible guy is off base - He has always loved his alma mater. I do believe He would come back with the right package. %A0And there is no question Cal would win under his leadership.

---

Serious question, did Tosh tell a recruit to go to UW while on a recruiting trip paid for by Cal? %A0If so, what does this say about him and what does it say about his alleged love of Cal?

---

Your current head coach asked him to. Why is that hard to comprehend? If the argument against Tosh is that he "betrayed" CAL, Golden Bear fans could spit and hit the guy who was complicit.

---

I don't defend Wilcox. %A0I want him gone.

That said, Wilcox did what he was supposed to do as an employee of UW. %A0He hired the best assistants he could. %A0He also persuaded an impressionable young man (I'm being generous here instead saying what I really think of him) to go on a recruiting trip on Cal's dime but to recruit for UW. %A0

Again, if Tosh had just resigned earlier and not traveled on Cal's dime as a Cal employee and then told a Cal recruit to play for a rival, then there's no problem. %A0Tosh was doing what he should, which was to maximize his earnings while young. %A0But the fact of the matter is, Tosh did not resign from Cal before recruiting against Cal. %A0

I'm not sure, but I've not seen a Tosh apologist explain away that. %A0I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that was beyond the pale. %A0

---

Life is hard. The big fish eat the little ones. Etc, etc, etc. What's really awful is all the people lying to themselves saying they're morally superior.

---

So your defense of Tosh is what, exactly? %A0

No one ever claimed life is easy. %A0That's just an entirely non sequitor strawman. %A0

---

It's big boy college athletics. Put on your hard hat or stop complaining that some mean evil man hurt CAL.

---

Again, you're making a strawman argument. %A0No one argued that some evil man hurt Cal. %A0The criticisms are over Tosh's behavior. %A0

I guess it's a little too much to ask an Oregon alum to understand that there are right and wrong ways to behave (especially in the professional arena). %A0No one ever claimed the Ducks of being ethical.

---

What a laughable response. He recruited players to UW while still employed by CAL. It was business. People are acting like he's the scum of the earth.

---

The story is that Tedford left the kid's house after a recruiting meeting and Tosh stayed behind on a flimsy pretext. Tosh had already been hired by UW and Tedford knew nothing about it. Knifed in the back.

If that's business to you, it's monkey business.

---

Everyone knows that the biggest donor to Oregon made his money largely on the back of illegal labor practices...for decades. What else do you expect ducktillcaught to post? All's fair, in everything.

---

there is not a single billionaire in the history of the world that is a paragon of virtue. You either lie and cheat to get to the top or you accept being middle class and forgettable, kind of like 6-6 Cal

---

I await your book.

---

It would certainly be more interesting than your obituary.

DoubtfulBear said:

---

82gradDLSdad said:

---

DoubtfulBear said:

---

82gradDLSdad said:

---

Rushinbear said:

---

ducktilldeath said:

---

01Bear said:

---

ducktilldeath said:

---

01Bear said:

---

ducktilldeath said:

---

01Bear said:

---

ducktilldeath said:

---

01Bear said:

---

4thGenCal said:

---

01Bear said:

---

calumnus said:

---

01Bear said:

---

kal kommie said:

---

CNHTH said:

---

kal kommie said:

---

F*** Tosh

---

But not f*** Wilmoe who was the only one on Sark's staff who even knew tosh?
As I said before I can almost guarantee wilmoe's contract at udubb was tied to luring away tosh / some sort of recruiting milestone payout aka "I know a guy from my time at cal who is a master recruiter I'll see if the fuskies will buy him a houseboat"
Sorry but I've never understood those who blast tosh on one hand and then defend the ****tiest coach in our history who was instrumental in poaching tosh and just conned our hapless ad into one of the top 5 most ****ty contracts in the history of contracts.

---

Why do you assume these are mutually exclusive? I've wanted Wilcox fired for years.

But it's ridiculous to see people even try to draw an equivalence between Tosh and Wilcox here. Tosh was Benedict Arnold. Wilcox was some British general who helped his superiors recruit a traitor to benefit their own side.

No Tosh under any circumstances. Just say no to traitors. Maybe that's a simpleton rule but I do think some things aren't complicated.

---

Also, Wilcox didn't take Cal's money and burn Cal's only permissible visit to a star recruit's home to tell him to sign with another school. %A0

---

Wilcox took the UW DC job and hired Tosh as his DL coach the week (?) before LOI day without informing Tedford, who gave him his first coaching job, and had Tosh start recruiting right away, who else was Tosh going to recruit but the same guys he had been recruiting? %A0Of course Wilcox knew what was happening, he isn't that clueless. The Thompson family credits Wilcox for flipping Shaq.

---

Again, did Wilcox take Cal's money to fund a recruiting trip for UW? %A0

Wilcox did what he was supposed to do, which was hire the best available assistants he could. %A0Tosh, OTOH, used a trip Cal paid for to visit a recruit (IIRC, it was Shaq Thompson, but I could be mistaken) and convince him to go to UW instead of Cal. %A0This not only was double dealing of the worst sort, but it also burned Cal's (IIRC only permissible) home visit to the recruit's family.

Had Tosh just resigned before the trip and not used Cal's trip to recruit on behalf of UW, no harm no foul. %A0But he didn't have the moral fiber to do that. %A0He screwed Cal and Tedford (even after Tedford went to bat for him and matched the salary UW offered). %A0

---

Facts: 1) Injury gate" was ordered by the then DC who told Tosh to do it - Tosh did not want to do it, but after being ordered to twice, He complied. %A0Afterwards the Conf commish told the AD simply to either suspend a coach for one game and if refused He would personally suspend Tedford. %A0Tedford then chose to suspend Tosh (not the DC) only problem was he did Not notify Tosh of his one game suspension quick enough. Tosh found out via a reporter calling Tosh directly to get his take on the penalty! %A0How unprofessional was that? This Info straight from Tosh to me. Tosh watched the game from Tightwad Hill. 2) Tedford only at the 11th hour matched Sark salary - I know because Tedford called me to explain why He was not going to match the initial salary request (Tedford said not fair to his more tenured coaches who had 5-9 years more team coaching experience to be paid less than Tosh. In particular Tedford said the KT the LB coach would not like a younger coach being paid more. I told him that Tosh is bringing in these program changing key recruits and therefore worth it.Tedford insisted that the key recruits were "the result of multiple coaches efforts! (totally wrong). Tosh's salary was approx $135k and only when Tosh explained that Sark had offered $235k did Tedford come up to match. However the same day Sark then went much higher with $285k and additional perks for Tosh that included others close to him did Tosh change direction and took the substantially higher offer. %A0Tosh went back and forth, yes left us and yes convinced those very "team recruited players" with him. %A0Life is tough, He looked out for himself. %A0Could have it been handled better on both sides? Yes. %A0But to somehow paint Tosh as this terrible guy is off base - He has always loved his alma mater. I do believe He would come back with the right package. %A0And there is no question Cal would win under his leadership.

---

Serious question, did Tosh tell a recruit to go to UW while on a recruiting trip paid for by Cal? %A0If so, what does this say about him and what does it say about his alleged love of Cal?

---

Your current head coach asked him to. Why is that hard to comprehend? If the argument against Tosh is that he "betrayed" CAL, Golden Bear fans could spit and hit the guy who was complicit.

---

I don't defend Wilcox. %A0I want him gone.

That said, Wilcox did what he was supposed to do as an employee of UW. %A0He hired the best assistants he could. %A0He also persuaded an impressionable young man (I'm being generous here instead saying what I really think of him) to go on a recruiting trip on Cal's dime but to recruit for UW. %A0

Again, if Tosh had just resigned earlier and not traveled on Cal's dime as a Cal employee and then told a Cal recruit to play for a rival, then there's no problem. %A0Tosh was doing what he should, which was to maximize his earnings while young. %A0But the fact of the matter is, Tosh did not resign from Cal before recruiting against Cal. %A0

I'm not sure, but I've not seen a Tosh apologist explain away that. %A0I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that was beyond the pale. %A0

---

Life is hard. The big fish eat the little ones. Etc, etc, etc. What's really awful is all the people lying to themselves saying they're morally superior.

---

So your defense of Tosh is what, exactly? %A0

No one ever claimed life is easy. %A0That's just an entirely non sequitor strawman. %A0

---

It's big boy college athletics. Put on your hard hat or stop complaining that some mean evil man hurt CAL.

---

Again, you're making a strawman argument. %A0No one argued that some evil man hurt Cal. %A0The criticisms are over Tosh's behavior. %A0

I guess it's a little too much to ask an Oregon alum to understand that there are right and wrong ways to behave (especially in the professional arena). %A0No one ever claimed the Ducks of being ethical.

---

What a laughable response. He recruited players to UW while still employed by CAL. It was business. People are acting like he's the scum of the earth.

---

The story is that Tedford left the kid's house after a recruiting meeting and Tosh stayed behind on a flimsy pretext. Tosh had already been hired by UW and Tedford knew nothing about it. Knifed in the back.

If that's business to you, it's monkey business.

---

Everyone knows that the biggest donor to Oregon made his money largely on the back of illegal labor practices...for decades. What else do you expect ducktillcaught to post? All's fair, in everything.

---

there is not a single billionaire in the history of the world that is a paragon of virtue. You either lie and cheat to get to the top or you accept being middle class and forgettable, kind of like 6-6 Cal

---

I await your book.

---

It would certainly be more interesting than your obituary.

---

Strykur said:

---

Oregon is winning a Big Ten championship, and will likely play for a national championship, and has the #1 classes for 2025 and 2026, and some ****ing idiots on here want to waste time debating the morality of their operation, while we go 6-6, you are clowns

---

Did Oregon hire someone who sabotaged a previous employer's recruiting class while on a recruiting visit paid for by that employer?

ducky23 said:

---

I think it's important to remember that neither Tedford or Wilcox were paragons of virtue here, and yet it's Tosh who always gets all the blame.

Tedford was supposed to be the adult in the room. And he's the one who screwed tosh by throwing him under the bus and then failing to compensate him properly. If I'm a young guy like Tosh, yeah maybe I do react a bit immaturely if I have the chance to get back at my boss.

I think when you're young, you make mistakes. Especially when you're the one being screwed first by people who you believed you could trust

---

I'm not saying Tedford should've thrown Tosh under the bus for Injurygate, but that doesn't absolve Tosh for Taking Cal's money and using a Cal recruiting trip to flip a recruit to UW.

Also, if Tosh wanted more money, more power to him for getting it from UW. All he had to do was just resign from Cal and not go on the recruiting trip. No one would've said anything. But instead, he used Cal's recruiting trip to lobby on behalf of UW. That's not okay by anybody's standards.

01Bear said:

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ducktilldeath said:

---

01Bear said:

---

ducktilldeath said:

---

01Bear said:

---

ducktilldeath said:

---

01Bear said:

---

ducktilldeath said:

---

01Bear said:

---

ducktilldeath said:

---

01Bear said:

---

4thGenCal said:

---

01Bear said:

---

calumnus said:

---

01Bear said:

---

kal kommie said:

---

CNHTH said:

---

kal kommie said:

---

F*** Tosh

---

But not f*** Wilmoe who was the only one on Sark's staff who even knew tosh?
As I said before I can almost guarantee wilmoe's contract at udubb was tied to luring away tosh / some sort of recruiting milestone payout aka "I know a guy from my time at cal who is a master recruiter I'll see if the fuskies will buy him a houseboat"
Sorry but I've never understood those who blast tosh on one hand and then defend the ****tiest coach in our history who was instrumental in poaching tosh and just conned our hapless ad into one of the top 5 most ****ty contracts in the history of contracts.

---

Why do you assume these are mutually exclusive? I've wanted Wilcox fired for years.

But it's ridiculous to see people even try to draw an equivalence between Tosh and Wilcox here. Tosh was Benedict Arnold. Wilcox was some British general who helped his superiors recruit a traitor to benefit their own side.

No Tosh under any circumstances. Just say no to traitors. Maybe that's a simpleton rule but I do think some things aren't complicated.

---

Also, Wilcox didn't take Cal's money and burn Cal's only permissible visit to a star recruit's home to tell him to sign with another school.

---

Wilcox took the UW DC job and hired Tosh as his DL coach the week (?) before LOI day without informing Tedford, who gave him his first coaching job, and had Tosh start recruiting right away, who else was Tosh going to recruit but the same guys he had been recruiting? Of course Wilcox knew what was happening, he isn't that clueless. The Thompson family credits Wilcox for flipping Shaq.

---

Again, did Wilcox take Cal's money to fund a recruiting trip for UW?

Wilcox did what he was supposed to do, which was hire the best available assistants he could. Tosh, OTOH, used a trip Cal paid for to visit a recruit (IIRC, it was Shaq Thompson, but I could be mistaken) and convince him to go to UW instead of Cal. This not only was double dealing of the worst sort, but it also burned Cal's (IIRC only permissible) home visit to the recruit's family.

Had Tosh just resigned before the trip and not used Cal's trip to recruit on behalf of UW, no harm no foul. But he didn't have the moral fiber to do that. He screwed Cal and Tedford (even after Tedford went to bat for him and matched the salary UW offered).

---

Facts: 1) Injury gate" was ordered by the then DC who told Tosh to do it - Tosh did not want to do it, but after being ordered to twice, He complied. Afterwards the Conf commish told the AD simply to either suspend a coach for one game and if refused He would personally suspend Tedford. Tedford then chose to suspend Tosh (not the DC) only problem was he did Not notify Tosh of his one game suspension quick enough. Tosh found out via a reporter calling Tosh directly to get his take on the penalty! How unprofessional was that? This Info straight from Tosh to me. Tosh watched the game from Tightwad Hill. 2) Tedford only at the 11th hour matched Sark salary - I know because Tedford called me to explain why He was not going to match the initial salary request (Tedford said not fair to his more tenured coaches who had 5-9 years more team coaching experience to be paid less than Tosh. In particular Tedford said the KT the LB coach would not like a younger coach being paid more. I told him that Tosh is bringing in these program changing key recruits and therefore worth it.Tedford insisted that the key recruits were "the result of multiple coaches efforts! (totally wrong). Tosh's salary was approx $135k and only when Tosh explained that Sark had offered $235k did Tedford come up to match. However the same day Sark then went much higher with $285k and additional perks for Tosh that included others close to him did Tosh change direction and took the substantially higher offer. Tosh went back and forth, yes left us and yes convinced those very "team recruited players" with him. Life is tough, He looked out for himself. Could have it been handled better on both sides? Yes. But to somehow paint Tosh as this terrible guy is off base - He has always loved his alma mater. I do believe He would come back with the right package. And there is no question Cal would win under his leadership.

---

Serious question, did Tosh tell a recruit to go to UW while on a recruiting trip paid for by Cal? If so, what does this say about him and what does it say about his alleged love of Cal?

---

Your current head coach asked him to. Why is that hard to comprehend? If the argument against Tosh is that he "betrayed" CAL, Golden Bear fans could spit and hit the guy who was complicit.

---

I don't defend Wilcox. I want him gone.

That said, Wilcox did what he was supposed to do as an employee of UW. He hired the best assistants he could. He also persuaded an impressionable young man (I'm being generous here instead saying what I really think of him) to go on a recruiting trip on Cal's dime but to recruit for UW.

Again, if Tosh had just resigned earlier and not traveled on Cal's dime as a Cal employee and then told a Cal recruit to play for a rival, then there's no problem. Tosh was doing what he should, which was to maximize his earnings while young. But the fact of the matter is, Tosh did not resign from Cal before recruiting against Cal.

I'm not sure, but I've not seen a Tosh apologist explain away that. I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that was beyond the pale.

---

Life is hard. The big fish eat the little ones. Etc, etc, etc. What's really awful is all the people lying to themselves saying they're morally superior.

---

So your defense of Tosh is what, exactly?

No one ever claimed life is easy. That's just an entirely non sequitor strawman.

---

It's big boy college athletics. Put on your hard hat or stop complaining that some mean evil man hurt CAL.

---

Again, you're making a strawman argument. No one argued that some evil man hurt Cal. The criticisms are over Tosh's behavior.

I guess it's a little too much to ask an Oregon alum to understand that there are right and wrong ways to behave (especially in the professional arena). No one ever claimed the Ducks of being ethical.

---

What a laughable response. He recruited players to UW while still employed by CAL. It was business. People are acting like he's the scum of the earth.

---

That's not business. That's how one burns bridges in a niche industry. But I get the feeling I'm just wasting my time here. Expecting an Oregon alumnus to understand ethics is like expecting a kindergartener to understand quantum physics.

---

lmfao. YOU HIRED WILCOX. How ****ing stupid are you? I took an incomplete in quantum mechanics.

---

Wilcox's actions (at the time) were aboveboard and not problematic. Again, he hired the best people he could find. He didn't take one school's money and then sabotage that school. Rather, he took one school's money and sabotaged a rival school. That's business.

What Tosh did was not. Again, Tosh took Cal's money and sabotaged Cal's recruiting class.

Had Tosh just resigned before the recruiting trip, no harm no foul. Heck, even if Tosh later visited the same recruit as an UW employee, no harm no foul. That business. But Tosh actively tanked the Cal recruiting class while employed by Cal. That shows a deplorable lack of ethics on Tosh's part.

But like I said, it's useless to discuss ethics with an Oregon alumnus. So ignore all of the above.

---

JFC I thought CAL fans were supposed to be smrt? Wilcox is the dude who had the other dude recruit dudes while the 2nd dude was still working for CAL. But your current head coach is absolved and X-Box Tosh is a heinous villian.

calumnus said:

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01Bear said:

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ducktilldeath said:

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01Bear said:

---

ducktilldeath said:

---

01Bear said:

---

ducktilldeath said:

---

01Bear said:

---

ducktilldeath said:

---

01Bear said:

---

ducktilldeath said:

---

01Bear said:

---

4thGenCal said:

---

01Bear said:

---

calumnus said:

---

01Bear said:

---

kal kommie said:

---

CNHTH said:

---

kal kommie said:

---

F*** Tosh

---

But not f*** Wilmoe who was the only one on Sark's staff who even knew tosh?
As I said before I can almost guarantee wilmoe's contract at udubb was tied to luring away tosh / some sort of recruiting milestone payout aka "I know a guy from my time at cal who is a master recruiter I'll see if the fuskies will buy him a houseboat"
Sorry but I've never understood those who blast tosh on one hand and then defend the ****tiest coach in our history who was instrumental in poaching tosh and just conned our hapless ad into one of the top 5 most ****ty contracts in the history of contracts.

---

Why do you assume these are mutually exclusive? I've wanted Wilcox fired for years.

But it's ridiculous to see people even try to draw an equivalence between Tosh and Wilcox here. Tosh was Benedict Arnold. Wilcox was some British general who helped his superiors recruit a traitor to benefit their own side.

No Tosh under any circumstances. Just say no to traitors. Maybe that's a simpleton rule but I do think some things aren't complicated.

---

Also, Wilcox didn't take Cal's money and burn Cal's only permissible visit to a star recruit's home to tell him to sign with another school.

---

Wilcox took the UW DC job and hired Tosh as his DL coach the week (?) before LOI day without informing Tedford, who gave him his first coaching job, and had Tosh start recruiting right away, who else was Tosh going to recruit but the same guys he had been recruiting? Of course Wilcox knew what was happening, he isn't that clueless. The Thompson family credits Wilcox for flipping Shaq.

---

Again, did Wilcox take Cal's money to fund a recruiting trip for UW?

Wilcox did what he was supposed to do, which was hire the best available assistants he could. Tosh, OTOH, used a trip Cal paid for to visit a recruit (IIRC, it was Shaq Thompson, but I could be mistaken) and convince him to go to UW instead of Cal. This not only was double dealing of the worst sort, but it also burned Cal's (IIRC only permissible) home visit to the recruit's family.

Had Tosh just resigned before the trip and not used Cal's trip to recruit on behalf of UW, no harm no foul. But he didn't have the moral fiber to do that. He screwed Cal and Tedford (even after Tedford went to bat for him and matched the salary UW offered).

---

Facts: 1) Injury gate" was ordered by the then DC who told Tosh to do it - Tosh did not want to do it, but after being ordered to twice, He complied. Afterwards the Conf commish told the AD simply to either suspend a coach for one game and if refused He would personally suspend Tedford. Tedford then chose to suspend Tosh (not the DC) only problem was he did Not notify Tosh of his one game suspension quick enough. Tosh found out via a reporter calling Tosh directly to get his take on the penalty! How unprofessional was that? This Info straight from Tosh to me. Tosh watched the game from Tightwad Hill. 2) Tedford only at the 11th hour matched Sark salary - I know because Tedford called me to explain why He was not going to match the initial salary request (Tedford said not fair to his more tenured coaches who had 5-9 years more team coaching experience to be paid less than Tosh. In particular Tedford said the KT the LB coach would not like a younger coach being paid more. I told him that Tosh is bringing in these program changing key recruits and therefore worth it.Tedford insisted that the key recruits were "the result of multiple coaches efforts! (totally wrong). Tosh's salary was approx $135k and only when Tosh explained that Sark had offered $235k did Tedford come up to match. However the same day Sark then went much higher with $285k and additional perks for Tosh that included others close to him did Tosh change direction and took the substantially higher offer. Tosh went back and forth, yes left us and yes convinced those very "team recruited players" with him. Life is tough, He looked out for himself. Could have it been handled better on both sides? Yes. But to somehow paint Tosh as this terrible guy is off base - He has always loved his alma mater. I do believe He would come back with the right package. And there is no question Cal would win under his leadership.

---

Serious question, did Tosh tell a recruit to go to UW while on a recruiting trip paid for by Cal? If so, what does this say about him and what does it say about his alleged love of Cal?

---

Your current head coach asked him to. Why is that hard to comprehend? If the argument against Tosh is that he "betrayed" CAL, Golden Bear fans could spit and hit the guy who was complicit.

---

I don't defend Wilcox. I want him gone.

That said, Wilcox did what he was supposed to do as an employee of UW. He hired the best assistants he could. He also persuaded an impressionable young man (I'm being generous here instead saying what I really think of him) to go on a recruiting trip on Cal's dime but to recruit for UW.

Again, if Tosh had just resigned earlier and not traveled on Cal's dime as a Cal employee and then told a Cal recruit to play for a rival, then there's no problem. Tosh was doing what he should, which was to maximize his earnings while young. But the fact of the matter is, Tosh did not resign from Cal before recruiting against Cal.

I'm not sure, but I've not seen a Tosh apologist explain away that. I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that was beyond the pale.

---

Life is hard. The big fish eat the little ones. Etc, etc, etc. What's really awful is all the people lying to themselves saying they're morally superior.

---

So your defense of Tosh is what, exactly?

No one ever claimed life is easy. That's just an entirely non sequitor strawman.

---

It's big boy college athletics. Put on your hard hat or stop complaining that some mean evil man hurt CAL.

---

Again, you're making a strawman argument. No one argued that some evil man hurt Cal. The criticisms are over Tosh's behavior.

I guess it's a little too much to ask an Oregon alum to understand that there are right and wrong ways to behave (especially in the professional arena). No one ever claimed the Ducks of being ethical.

---

What a laughable response. He recruited players to UW while still employed by CAL. It was business. People are acting like he's the scum of the earth.

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That's not business. That's how one burns bridges in a niche industry. But I get the feeling I'm just wasting my time here. Expecting an Oregon alumnus to understand ethics is like expecting a kindergartener to understand quantum physics.

---

lmfao. YOU HIRED WILCOX. How ****ing stupid are you? I took an incomplete in quantum mechanics.

---

Wilcox's actions (at the time) were aboveboard and not problematic. Again, he hired the best people he could find. He didn't take one school's money and then sabotage that school. Rather, he took one school's money and sabotaged a rival school. That's business.

What Tosh did was not. Again, Tosh took Cal's money and sabotaged Cal's recruiting class.

Had Tosh just resigned before the recruiting trip, no harm no foul. Heck, even if Tosh later visited the same recruit as an UW employee, no harm no foul. That business. But Tosh actively tanked the Cal recruiting class while employed by Cal. That shows a deplorable lack of ethics on Tosh's part.

But like I said, it's useless to discuss ethics with an Oregon alumnus. So ignore all of the above.

---

Wilcox hired Tosh, knew what he was doing and clearly condoned Tosh's actions. It is what he was hired to do, encouraged by Wilcox and reportedly incentivized by Sark. It is like absolving a Mafia boss from a murder because it was someone under him pulling the trigger.

---

Wilcox did what he was supposed to: blow up another school's recruiting class while bolstering his employer's. If he suckered Tosh into betraying the latter's employer to do so, then that's just icing in the cake. Frankly, though, based on how Wilcox has behaved as the Cal HC, I rather doubt Wilcox was able to manipulate Tosh into recruiting for UW while on Cal's dime. It's not that I think Wilcox is more ethical; rather, it's because I doubt Wilcox has the imagination and cunning to pull it off.

ducktilldeath said:

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01Bear said:

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ducktilldeath said:

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01Bear said:

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ducktilldeath said:

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01Bear said:

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ducktilldeath said:

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01Bear said:

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ducktilldeath said:

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01Bear said:

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ducktilldeath said:

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01Bear said:

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4thGenCal said:

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01Bear said:

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calumnus said:

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01Bear said:

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kal kommie said:

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CNHTH said:

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kal kommie said:

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F*** Tosh

---

But not f*** Wilmoe who was the only one on Sark's staff who even knew tosh?
As I said before I can almost guarantee wilmoe's contract at udubb was tied to luring away tosh / some sort of recruiting milestone payout aka "I know a guy from my time at cal who is a master recruiter I'll see if the fuskies will buy him a houseboat"
Sorry but I've never understood those who blast tosh on one hand and then defend the ****tiest coach in our history who was instrumental in poaching tosh and just conned our hapless ad into one of the top 5 most ****ty contracts in the history of contracts.

---

Why do you assume these are mutually exclusive? I've wanted Wilcox fired for years.

But it's ridiculous to see people even try to draw an equivalence between Tosh and Wilcox here. Tosh was Benedict Arnold. Wilcox was some British general who helped his superiors recruit a traitor to benefit their own side.

No Tosh under any circumstances. Just say no to traitors. Maybe that's a simpleton rule but I do think some things aren't complicated.

---

Also, Wilcox didn't take Cal's money and burn Cal's only permissible visit to a star recruit's home to tell him to sign with another school.

---

Wilcox took the UW DC job and hired Tosh as his DL coach the week (?) before LOI day without informing Tedford, who gave him his first coaching job, and had Tosh start recruiting right away, who else was Tosh going to recruit but the same guys he had been recruiting? Of course Wilcox knew what was happening, he isn't that clueless. The Thompson family credits Wilcox for flipping Shaq.

---

Again, did Wilcox take Cal's money to fund a recruiting trip for UW?

Wilcox did what he was supposed to do, which was hire the best available assistants he could. Tosh, OTOH, used a trip Cal paid for to visit a recruit (IIRC, it was Shaq Thompson, but I could be mistaken) and convince him to go to UW instead of Cal. This not only was double dealing of the worst sort, but it also burned Cal's (IIRC only permissible) home visit to the recruit's family.

Had Tosh just resigned before the trip and not used Cal's trip to recruit on behalf of UW, no harm no foul. But he didn't have the moral fiber to do that. He screwed Cal and Tedford (even after Tedford went to bat for him and matched the salary UW offered).

---

Facts: 1) Injury gate" was ordered by the then DC who told Tosh to do it - Tosh did not want to do it, but after being ordered to twice, He complied. Afterwards the Conf commish told the AD simply to either suspend a coach for one game and if refused He would personally suspend Tedford. Tedford then chose to suspend Tosh (not the DC) only problem was he did Not notify Tosh of his one game suspension quick enough. Tosh found out via a reporter calling Tosh directly to get his take on the penalty! How unprofessional was that? This Info straight from Tosh to me. Tosh watched the game from Tightwad Hill. 2) Tedford only at the 11th hour matched Sark salary - I know because Tedford called me to explain why He was not going to match the initial salary request (Tedford said not fair to his more tenured coaches who had 5-9 years more team coaching experience to be paid less than Tosh. In particular Tedford said the KT the LB coach would not like a younger coach being paid more. I told him that Tosh is bringing in these program changing key recruits and therefore worth it.Tedford insisted that the key recruits were "the result of multiple coaches efforts! (totally wrong). Tosh's salary was approx $135k and only when Tosh explained that Sark had offered $235k did Tedford come up to match. However the same day Sark then went much higher with $285k and additional perks for Tosh that included others close to him did Tosh change direction and took the substantially higher offer. Tosh went back and forth, yes left us and yes convinced those very "team recruited players" with him. Life is tough, He looked out for himself. Could have it been handled better on both sides? Yes. But to somehow paint Tosh as this terrible guy is off base - He has always loved his alma mater. I do believe He would come back with the right package. And there is no question Cal would win under his leadership.

---

Serious question, did Tosh tell a recruit to go to UW while on a recruiting trip paid for by Cal? If so, what does this say about him and what does it say about his alleged love of Cal?

---

Your current head coach asked him to. Why is that hard to comprehend? If the argument against Tosh is that he "betrayed" CAL, Golden Bear fans could spit and hit the guy who was complicit.

---

I don't defend Wilcox. I want him gone.

That said, Wilcox did what he was supposed to do as an employee of UW. He hired the best assistants he could. He also persuaded an impressionable young man (I'm being generous here instead saying what I really think of him) to go on a recruiting trip on Cal's dime but to recruit for UW.

Again, if Tosh had just resigned earlier and not traveled on Cal's dime as a Cal employee and then told a Cal recruit to play for a rival, then there's no problem. Tosh was doing what he should, which was to maximize his earnings while young. But the fact of the matter is, Tosh did not resign from Cal before recruiting against Cal.

I'm not sure, but I've not seen a Tosh apologist explain away that. I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that was beyond the pale.

---

Life is hard. The big fish eat the little ones. Etc, etc, etc. What's really awful is all the people lying to themselves saying they're morally superior.

---

So your defense of Tosh is what, exactly?

No one ever claimed life is easy. That's just an entirely non sequitor strawman.

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It's big boy college athletics. Put on your hard hat or stop complaining that some mean evil man hurt CAL.

---

Again, you're making a strawman argument. No one argued that some evil man hurt Cal. The criticisms are over Tosh's behavior.

I guess it's a little too much to ask an Oregon alum to understand that there are right and wrong ways to behave (especially in the professional arena). No one ever claimed the Ducks of being ethical.

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What a laughable response. He recruited players to UW while still employed by CAL. It was business. People are acting like he's the scum of the earth.

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That's not business. That's how one burns bridges in a niche industry. But I get the feeling I'm just wasting my time here. Expecting an Oregon alumnus to understand ethics is like expecting a kindergartener to understand quantum physics.

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lmfao. YOU HIRED WILCOX. How ****ing stupid are you? I took an incomplete in quantum mechanics.

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Wilcox's actions (at the time) were aboveboard and not problematic. Again, he hired the best people he could find. He didn't take one school's money and then sabotage that school. Rather, he took one school's money and sabotaged a rival school. That's business.

What Tosh did was not. Again, Tosh took Cal's money and sabotaged Cal's recruiting class.

Had Tosh just resigned before the recruiting trip, no harm no foul. Heck, even if Tosh later visited the same recruit as an UW employee, no harm no foul. That business. But Tosh actively tanked the Cal recruiting class while employed by Cal. That shows a deplorable lack of ethics on Tosh's part.

But like I said, it's useless to discuss ethics with an Oregon alumnus. So ignore all of the above.

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JFC I thought CAL fans were supposed to be smrt? Wilcox is the dude who had the other dude recruit dudes while the 2nd dude was still working for CAL. But your current head coach is absolved and X-Box Tosh is a heinous villian.

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Lol! You're hilarious. You still can't understand the distinction between Wilcox's actions and Tosh's actions. You don't understand that one did what he was supposed to do and the other didn't.

Frankly, I am skeptical that Wilcox was cunning enough to advise Tosh to recruit for UW while still employed by Cal. Wilcox has proven himself to lack imagination and intellect to come up with such an idea.

01Bear said:

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calumnus said:

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01Bear said:

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ducktilldeath said:

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01Bear said:

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ducktilldeath said:

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01Bear said:

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ducktilldeath said:

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01Bear said:

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ducktilldeath said:

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01Bear said:

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ducktilldeath said:

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01Bear said:

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4thGenCal said:

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01Bear said:

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calumnus said:

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01Bear said:

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kal kommie said:

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CNHTH said:

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kal kommie said:

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F*** Tosh

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But not f*** Wilmoe who was the only one on Sark's staff who even knew tosh?
As I said before I can almost guarantee wilmoe's contract at udubb was tied to luring away tosh / some sort of recruiting milestone payout aka "I know a guy from my time at cal who is a master recruiter I'll see if the fuskies will buy him a houseboat"
Sorry but I've never understood those who blast tosh on one hand and then defend the ****tiest coach in our history who was instrumental in poaching tosh and just conned our hapless ad into one of the top 5 most ****ty contracts in the history of contracts.

---

Why do you assume these are mutually exclusive? I've wanted Wilcox fired for years.

But it's ridiculous to see people even try to draw an equivalence between Tosh and Wilcox here. Tosh was Benedict Arnold. Wilcox was some British general who helped his superiors recruit a traitor to benefit their own side.

No Tosh under any circumstances. Just say no to traitors. Maybe that's a simpleton rule but I do think some things aren't complicated.

---

Also, Wilcox didn't take Cal's money and burn Cal's only permissible visit to a star recruit's home to tell him to sign with another school.

---

Wilcox took the UW DC job and hired Tosh as his DL coach the week (?) before LOI day without informing Tedford, who gave him his first coaching job, and had Tosh start recruiting right away, who else was Tosh going to recruit but the same guys he had been recruiting? Of course Wilcox knew what was happening, he isn't that clueless. The Thompson family credits Wilcox for flipping Shaq.

---

Again, did Wilcox take Cal's money to fund a recruiting trip for UW?

Wilcox did what he was supposed to do, which was hire the best available assistants he could. Tosh, OTOH, used a trip Cal paid for to visit a recruit (IIRC, it was Shaq Thompson, but I could be mistaken) and convince him to go to UW instead of Cal. This not only was double dealing of the worst sort, but it also burned Cal's (IIRC only permissible) home visit to the recruit's family.

Had Tosh just resigned before the trip and not used Cal's trip to recruit on behalf of UW, no harm no foul. But he didn't have the moral fiber to do that. He screwed Cal and Tedford (even after Tedford went to bat for him and matched the salary UW offered).

---

Facts: 1) Injury gate" was ordered by the then DC who told Tosh to do it - Tosh did not want to do it, but after being ordered to twice, He complied. Afterwards the Conf commish told the AD simply to either suspend a coach for one game and if refused He would personally suspend Tedford. Tedford then chose to suspend Tosh (not the DC) only problem was he did Not notify Tosh of his one game suspension quick enough. Tosh found out via a reporter calling Tosh directly to get his take on the penalty! How unprofessional was that? This Info straight from Tosh to me. Tosh watched the game from Tightwad Hill. 2) Tedford only at the 11th hour matched Sark salary - I know because Tedford called me to explain why He was not going to match the initial salary request (Tedford said not fair to his more tenured coaches who had 5-9 years more team coaching experience to be paid less than Tosh. In particular Tedford said the KT the LB coach would not like a younger coach being paid more. I told him that Tosh is bringing in these program changing key recruits and therefore worth it.Tedford insisted that the key recruits were "the result of multiple coaches efforts! (totally wrong). Tosh's salary was approx $135k and only when Tosh explained that Sark had offered $235k did Tedford come up to match. However the same day Sark then went much higher with $285k and additional perks for Tosh that included others close to him did Tosh change direction and took the substantially higher offer. Tosh went back and forth, yes left us and yes convinced those very "team recruited players" with him. Life is tough, He looked out for himself. Could have it been handled better on both sides? Yes. But to somehow paint Tosh as this terrible guy is off base - He has always loved his alma mater. I do believe He would come back with the right package. And there is no question Cal would win under his leadership.

---

Serious question, did Tosh tell a recruit to go to UW while on a recruiting trip paid for by Cal? If so, what does this say about him and what does it say about his alleged love of Cal?

---

Your current head coach asked him to. Why is that hard to comprehend? If the argument against Tosh is that he "betrayed" CAL, Golden Bear fans could spit and hit the guy who was complicit.

---

I don't defend Wilcox. I want him gone.

That said, Wilcox did what he was supposed to do as an employee of UW. He hired the best assistants he could. He also persuaded an impressionable young man (I'm being generous here instead saying what I really think of him) to go on a recruiting trip on Cal's dime but to recruit for UW.

Again, if Tosh had just resigned earlier and not traveled on Cal's dime as a Cal employee and then told a Cal recruit to play for a rival, then there's no problem. Tosh was doing what he should, which was to maximize his earnings while young. But the fact of the matter is, Tosh did not resign from Cal before recruiting against Cal.

I'm not sure, but I've not seen a Tosh apologist explain away that. I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that was beyond the pale.

---

Life is hard. The big fish eat the little ones. Etc, etc, etc. What's really awful is all the people lying to themselves saying they're morally superior.

---

So your defense of Tosh is what, exactly?

No one ever claimed life is easy. That's just an entirely non sequitor strawman.

---

It's big boy college athletics. Put on your hard hat or stop complaining that some mean evil man hurt CAL.

---

Again, you're making a strawman argument. No one argued that some evil man hurt Cal. The criticisms are over Tosh's behavior.

I guess it's a little too much to ask an Oregon alum to understand that there are right and wrong ways to behave (especially in the professional arena). No one ever claimed the Ducks of being ethical.

---

What a laughable response. He recruited players to UW while still employed by CAL. It was business. People are acting like he's the scum of the earth.

---

That's not business. That's how one burns bridges in a niche industry. But I get the feeling I'm just wasting my time here. Expecting an Oregon alumnus to understand ethics is like expecting a kindergartener to understand quantum physics.

---

lmfao. YOU HIRED WILCOX. How ****ing stupid are you? I took an incomplete in quantum mechanics.

---

Wilcox's actions (at the time) were aboveboard and not problematic. Again, he hired the best people he could find. He didn't take one school's money and then sabotage that school. Rather, he took one school's money and sabotaged a rival school. That's business.

What Tosh did was not. Again, Tosh took Cal's money and sabotaged Cal's recruiting class.

Had Tosh just resigned before the recruiting trip, no harm no foul. Heck, even if Tosh later visited the same recruit as an UW employee, no harm no foul. That business. But Tosh actively tanked the Cal recruiting class while employed by Cal. That shows a deplorable lack of ethics on Tosh's part.

But like I said, it's useless to discuss ethics with an Oregon alumnus. So ignore all of the above.

---

Wilcox hired Tosh, knew what he was doing and clearly condoned Tosh's actions. It is what he was hired to do, encouraged by Wilcox and reportedly incentivized by Sark. It is like absolving a Mafia boss from a murder because it was someone under him pulling the trigger.

---

Wilcox did what he was supposed to: blow up another school's recruiting class while bolstering his employer's. If he suckered Tosh into betraying the latter's employer to do so, then that's just icing in the cake. Frankly, though, based on how Wilcox has behaved as the Cal HC, I rather doubt Wilcox was able to manipulate Tosh into recruiting for UW while on Cal's dime. It's not that I think Wilcox is more ethical; rather, it's because I doubt Wilcox has the imagination and cunning to pull it off.

---

It is just not so black and white like the pretzel Cal fans have twisted themselves into since Wilcox was hired: Tosh is evil and Wilcox is a saint.

Sure, maybe Wilcox wasn't the mastermind, but Sark, Wilcox and Tosh were all complicit. In a situation like that, if Wilcox is hiring Tosh before LOI day, and he wants to be a "standup guy" he <could> give Tedford, the guy that gave him his first coaching job, a curtesy call. Instead he went along with the plan to incentivize Tosh for flipping recruits and reaped the rewards with Shaq Thompson playing linebacker on his defense, with Peter Sirmon as his position coach. The analogy is Wilcox knowingly receiving stolen goods that he was on on the plot to steal. There is a distinction, but it is not as great as Cal fans pretend.

Nobody is saying Wilcox is a saint, but he didn't owe any loyalty to Cal at the time. Neither did Sark, who I'm sure also played a significant role. (Not sure how he always evades this discussion.) Lupoi intentionally harmed not only his employer but also his alma mater. On top of all that he's never proven to be very good at anything except recruiting kids we currently can't even sign. We never won much with the kids he recruited. All the "good ole days" (fleeting as they were) preceded him, and don't forget he was the impetus for the task force and chancellor report--still in effect regardless how much i personally disagree with it--that imposed a 3.0 HS GPA floor with limited exceptions. So aside from the fact that he's shown absolutely zero loyalty to anyone but himself he's of limited if any utility to Cal. But as I said, if we're going to crash and burn I'd rather do it with Lupois at the helm than Wilcox simply for the schadenfreude alone. I'm petty like that.

DoubtfulBear said:

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82gradDLSdad said:

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DoubtfulBear said:

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82gradDLSdad said:

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Rushinbear said:

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ducktilldeath said:

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01Bear said:

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ducktilldeath said:

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01Bear said:

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ducktilldeath said:

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01Bear said:

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ducktilldeath said:

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01Bear said:

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4thGenCal said:

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01Bear said:

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calumnus said:

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01Bear said:

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kal kommie said:

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CNHTH said:

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kal kommie said:

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F*** Tosh

---

But not f*** Wilmoe who was the only one on Sark's staff who even knew tosh?
As I said before I can almost guarantee wilmoe's contract at udubb was tied to luring away tosh / some sort of recruiting milestone payout aka "I know a guy from my time at cal who is a master recruiter I'll see if the fuskies will buy him a houseboat"
Sorry but I've never understood those who blast tosh on one hand and then defend the ****tiest coach in our history who was instrumental in poaching tosh and just conned our hapless ad into one of the top 5 most ****ty contracts in the history of contracts.

---

Why do you assume these are mutually exclusive? I've wanted Wilcox fired for years.

But it's ridiculous to see people even try to draw an equivalence between Tosh and Wilcox here. Tosh was Benedict Arnold. Wilcox was some British general who helped his superiors recruit a traitor to benefit their own side.

No Tosh under any circumstances. Just say no to traitors. Maybe that's a simpleton rule but I do think some things aren't complicated.

---

Also, Wilcox didn't take Cal's money and burn Cal's only permissible visit to a star recruit's home to tell him to sign with another school. %A0

---

Wilcox took the UW DC job and hired Tosh as his DL coach the week (?) before LOI day without informing Tedford, who gave him his first coaching job, and had Tosh start recruiting right away, who else was Tosh going to recruit but the same guys he had been recruiting? %A0Of course Wilcox knew what was happening, he isn't that clueless. The Thompson family credits Wilcox for flipping Shaq.

---

Again, did Wilcox take Cal's money to fund a recruiting trip for UW? %A0

Wilcox did what he was supposed to do, which was hire the best available assistants he could. %A0Tosh, OTOH, used a trip Cal paid for to visit a recruit (IIRC, it was Shaq Thompson, but I could be mistaken) and convince him to go to UW instead of Cal. %A0This not only was double dealing of the worst sort, but it also burned Cal's (IIRC only permissible) home visit to the recruit's family.

Had Tosh just resigned before the trip and not used Cal's trip to recruit on behalf of UW, no harm no foul. %A0But he didn't have the moral fiber to do that. %A0He screwed Cal and Tedford (even after Tedford went to bat for him and matched the salary UW offered). %A0

---

Facts: 1) Injury gate" was ordered by the then DC who told Tosh to do it - Tosh did not want to do it, but after being ordered to twice, He complied. %A0Afterwards the Conf commish told the AD simply to either suspend a coach for one game and if refused He would personally suspend Tedford. %A0Tedford then chose to suspend Tosh (not the DC) only problem was he did Not notify Tosh of his one game suspension quick enough. Tosh found out via a reporter calling Tosh directly to get his take on the penalty! %A0How unprofessional was that? This Info straight from Tosh to me. Tosh watched the game from Tightwad Hill. 2) Tedford only at the 11th hour matched Sark salary - I know because Tedford called me to explain why He was not going to match the initial salary request (Tedford said not fair to his more tenured coaches who had 5-9 years more team coaching experience to be paid less than Tosh. In particular Tedford said the KT the LB coach would not like a younger coach being paid more. I told him that Tosh is bringing in these program changing key recruits and therefore worth it.Tedford insisted that the key recruits were "the result of multiple coaches efforts! (totally wrong). Tosh's salary was approx $135k and only when Tosh explained that Sark had offered $235k did Tedford come up to match. However the same day Sark then went much higher with $285k and additional perks for Tosh that included others close to him did Tosh change direction and took the substantially higher offer. %A0Tosh went back and forth, yes left us and yes convinced those very "team recruited players" with him. %A0Life is tough, He looked out for himself. %A0Could have it been handled better on both sides? Yes. %A0But to somehow paint Tosh as this terrible guy is off base - He has always loved his alma mater. I do believe He would come back with the right package. %A0And there is no question Cal would win under his leadership.

---

Serious question, did Tosh tell a recruit to go to UW while on a recruiting trip paid for by Cal? %A0If so, what does this say about him and what does it say about his alleged love of Cal?

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Your current head coach asked him to. Why is that hard to comprehend? If the argument against Tosh is that he "betrayed" CAL, Golden Bear fans could spit and hit the guy who was complicit.

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I don't defend Wilcox. %A0I want him gone.

That said, Wilcox did what he was supposed to do as an employee of UW. %A0He hired the best assistants he could. %A0He also persuaded an impressionable young man (I'm being generous here instead saying what I really think of him) to go on a recruiting trip on Cal's dime but to recruit for UW. %A0

Again, if Tosh had just resigned earlier and not traveled on Cal's dime as a Cal employee and then told a Cal recruit to play for a rival, then there's no problem. %A0Tosh was doing what he should, which was to maximize his earnings while young. %A0But the fact of the matter is, Tosh did not resign from Cal before recruiting against Cal. %A0

I'm not sure, but I've not seen a Tosh apologist explain away that. %A0I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that was beyond the pale. %A0

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Life is hard. The big fish eat the little ones. Etc, etc, etc. What's really awful is all the people lying to themselves saying they're morally superior.

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So your defense of Tosh is what, exactly? %A0

No one ever claimed life is easy. %A0That's just an entirely non sequitor strawman. %A0

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It's big boy college athletics. Put on your hard hat or stop complaining that some mean evil man hurt CAL.

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Again, you're making a strawman argument. %A0No one argued that some evil man hurt Cal. %A0The criticisms are over Tosh's behavior. %A0

I guess it's a little too much to ask an Oregon alum to understand that there are right and wrong ways to behave (especially in the professional arena). %A0No one ever claimed the Ducks of being ethical.

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What a laughable response. He recruited players to UW while still employed by CAL. It was business. People are acting like he's the scum of the earth.

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The story is that Tedford left the kid's house after a recruiting meeting and Tosh stayed behind on a flimsy pretext. Tosh had already been hired by UW and Tedford knew nothing about it. Knifed in the back.

If that's business to you, it's monkey business.

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Everyone knows that the biggest donor to Oregon made his money largely on the back of illegal labor practices...for decades. What else do you expect ducktillcaught to post? All's fair, in everything.

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there is not a single billionaire in the history of the world that is a paragon of virtue. You either lie and cheat to get to the top or you accept being middle class and forgettable, kind of like 6-6 Cal

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I await your book.

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It would certainly be more interesting than your obituary.

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Don't be so sure.