Cal88 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

GivemTheAxe said:

---

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

golden sloth said:

---

I do wonder what the final end game is for conference realignment is. I can't help but imagine that both the Big 10 and SEC continue to gobble up the final 8 - 12 big name properties and markets, then implement a system maximizing the SEC and Big 10 payouts and control with only token participation from the remaining conferences and schools. Obviously, the ACC and Big 12 drop to be mid-major level (similar to the Pac).

For the Big 10, I think they eventually expand to a total of 24 schools with four divisions of (6) schools each. In football, you'd play everyone in your division every year and play one school from the other divisions. I think they'd also schedule an SEC - Big 10 challenge where you play two games against the other conference every year (one home, one away). That is ten SEC/Big 10 opponents every season, with two cupcake home games. Each school would have 7 home game and 5 away games. That makes sense to me.

As for the divisions, I'd imagine it would be something along the lines of:

Div 1:
1. Penn State
2. Maryland
3. Rutgers
4. North Carolina
5. Miami
6. TBD

TBD: One of Clemson, Florida State, Virginia, Georgia Tech
They could also take two of the TBDs and push Penn State to Div 2 and Northwestern to Div 3.

Div 2:
1. Ohio State
2. Michigan
3. Michigan State
4. Purdue
5. Indiana
6. Northwestern (NW could easily switch will Illinois if needed)

Div 3:
1. Illinois
2. Wisconsin
3. Minnesota
4. Iowa
5. Nebraska
6. TBD

TBD: One of Kansas, Utah, Colorado

Div 4:
1. USC
2. UCLA
3. Washington
4. Oregon
5. TBD
6. TBD

TBD: Two of Cal, Stanford, Arizona, Arizona St, Utah

This assumes, Notre Dame remains independent. If they do, they can choose their division taking either a TBD spot, or moving Northwestern to Division 3. Also assumes the Big 10 can't poach from the SEC.

---

We are hanging on to a system that no longer works or makes any sense. I do think it is going to evolve to something that makes sense, but right now it is doing so in a haphazard manner that is taking too long.

First of all, let's get acceptance that College football and men's basketball are professional sports leagues now. Second of all, they are two different professional sports leagues. There is really no reason that schools in the same football conference need to also be in the same basketball conference.

College football and basketball are fundamentally different business models. Football is hell expensive. You need 5 times the number of quality players to field a competitive football team than you need in basketball, meaning a lower level team can't get lucky with one or two guys and compete. There is more money making potential in football. Football is more about a whole system of strength and conditioning to develop bodies. A 240 lb player cannot just outskill a 300lb player. As a result, a school like St. Mary's can compete in basketball where even if they wanted to they have no chance to compete in football.

Just discussing football because I think it is more black and white. There are not 40, 50, 60 teams that are financially viable. Pro sports leagues in the US have pretty well settled in around 30 teams, I think there is a good reason for this. Get much beyond that and you spread the product too thin. Also, the disparity between the haves and the have nots is just too great.

The college football organization has been blown up. The NCAA was barely a business organization and it was terrible at it. The SEC and the Big 10 are the de facto major leagues here. They need to join together with business sponsorship and form a league that is an actual private business not related to school administrations or state governments. They need to have a league of 32 or 36 teams. They have the management invite teams to apply and then pick the teams based on long term financial viability and that is it. They form a self contained league and they do not play anybody else. Structure the league similar to the NFL. Similar schedules. Similar playoffs so you don't have this idiotic "I lost two games now I'm out" BS. And It will be best for all concerned. Cut off the dreams of the teams that can't accept that they can never compete so they stop being idiots with their money. Then out of those teams you'll see another league - cheaper to run because they can't afford more - that will form out of the next 32 or 36 teams.

This would also bring more stability with the personnel. The top league will barely recruit high school players because they are too risky and be subject to leaving anyway. They will take only the very cream of the crop out of high school and otherwise hire guys who have proven themselves in the lower leagues. The lower leagues would be made up of young players and experienced players who can't make it in the top leagues.

There would be a lot more stability and competitiveness within leagues. No more 60 point destruction games. Games would be a lot more entertaining with more evenly matched teams. Teams would spend the appropriate amount of money for their level because they wouldn't all be trying to follow a fantasy of getting into a higher level.

The current system is killing midrange teams. It is like watching a car race where a bunch of drivers in Yugo's are burning out their engines with their pedal to the floor, trying to keep up with Porsches.

I honestly think separating the top from the middle will reinvigorate the middle tier allowing them to play competitive games and compete for championships as medium sized frogs in medium sized ponds.

---

I am not arguing with your reasoning. But to me if there is major shrinkage in the number of viable college teams, it will shrink the available players who can be recruited by the Pros.
Right now there is a very large pool of potential Pro players. Many come out of Podunk Universities.
What happens when that large pool dries up to just 32 or 36 teams.
Remember that A. Rodgers was recruited by Cal of a J.C. because no other school wanted to take a chance on him.
Take away Cal and there would have been no A. Rodgers.
Take away Cal and that would likely dry up J.C. football.
Which schools (4-year or J.C. would be willing to spend money to keep alive College Football if that school has no hope of making its college football program economically feasible.)

I see Pro Football sowing the seeds of its own destruction in the long run.

---

I think the idea here is that the smaller schools would still recruit those players and give them chances, and if they blew up (like Rodgers) then the top league would get them in the transfer portal.

Heck, star NFL players still got drafted from the I-AA / FCS ranks in the old days too (Jerry Rice, Steve McNair, etc.). The NFL will find their talent wherever it is.

---

It's basically the same system in international soccer, when a young player blows up at a small club, he gets picked up by a big club. The difference is that in soccer, the small club gets a transfer fee from the big club.

---

GivemTheAxe said:

---

sycasey said:

---

GivemTheAxe said:

---

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

golden sloth said:

---

I do wonder what the final end game is for conference realignment is. I can't help but imagine that both the Big 10 and SEC continue to gobble up the final 8 - 12 big name properties and markets, then implement a system maximizing the SEC and Big 10 payouts and control with only token participation from the remaining conferences and schools. Obviously, the ACC and Big 12 drop to be mid-major level (similar to the Pac).

For the Big 10, I think they eventually expand to a total of 24 schools with four divisions of (6) schools each. In football, you'd play everyone in your division every year and play one school from the other divisions. I think they'd also schedule an SEC - Big 10 challenge where you play two games against the other conference every year (one home, one away). That is ten SEC/Big 10 opponents every season, with two cupcake home games. Each school would have 7 home game and 5 away games. That makes sense to me.

As for the divisions, I'd imagine it would be something along the lines of:

Div 1:
1. Penn State
2. Maryland
3. Rutgers
4. North Carolina
5. Miami
6. TBD

TBD: One of Clemson, Florida State, Virginia, Georgia Tech
They could also take two of the TBDs and push Penn State to Div 2 and Northwestern to Div 3.

Div 2:
1. Ohio State
2. Michigan
3. Michigan State
4. Purdue
5. Indiana
6. Northwestern (NW could easily switch will Illinois if needed)

Div 3:
1. Illinois
2. Wisconsin
3. Minnesota
4. Iowa
5. Nebraska
6. TBD

TBD: One of Kansas, Utah, Colorado

Div 4:
1. USC
2. UCLA
3. Washington
4. Oregon
5. TBD
6. TBD

TBD: Two of Cal, Stanford, Arizona, Arizona St, Utah

This assumes, Notre Dame remains independent. If they do, they can choose their division taking either a TBD spot, or moving Northwestern to Division 3. Also assumes the Big 10 can't poach from the SEC.

---

We are hanging on to a system that no longer works or makes any sense. I do think it is going to evolve to something that makes sense, but right now it is doing so in a haphazard manner that is taking too long.

First of all, let's get acceptance that College football and men's basketball are professional sports leagues now. Second of all, they are two different professional sports leagues. There is really no reason that schools in the same football conference need to also be in the same basketball conference.

College football and basketball are fundamentally different business models. Football is hell expensive. You need 5 times the number of quality players to field a competitive football team than you need in basketball, meaning a lower level team can't get lucky with one or two guys and compete. There is more money making potential in football. Football is more about a whole system of strength and conditioning to develop bodies. A 240 lb player cannot just outskill a 300lb player. As a result, a school like St. Mary's can compete in basketball where even if they wanted to they have no chance to compete in football.

Just discussing football because I think it is more black and white. There are not 40, 50, 60 teams that are financially viable. Pro sports leagues in the US have pretty well settled in around 30 teams, I think there is a good reason for this. Get much beyond that and you spread the product too thin. Also, the disparity between the haves and the have nots is just too great.

The college football organization has been blown up. The NCAA was barely a business organization and it was terrible at it. The SEC and the Big 10 are the de facto major leagues here. They need to join together with business sponsorship and form a league that is an actual private business not related to school administrations or state governments. They need to have a league of 32 or 36 teams. They have the management invite teams to apply and then pick the teams based on long term financial viability and that is it. They form a self contained league and they do not play anybody else. Structure the league similar to the NFL. Similar schedules. Similar playoffs so you don't have this idiotic "I lost two games now I'm out" BS. And It will be best for all concerned. Cut off the dreams of the teams that can't accept that they can never compete so they stop being idiots with their money. Then out of those teams you'll see another league - cheaper to run because they can't afford more - that will form out of the next 32 or 36 teams.

This would also bring more stability with the personnel. The top league will barely recruit high school players because they are too risky and be subject to leaving anyway. They will take only the very cream of the crop out of high school and otherwise hire guys who have proven themselves in the lower leagues. The lower leagues would be made up of young players and experienced players who can't make it in the top leagues.

There would be a lot more stability and competitiveness within leagues. No more 60 point destruction games. Games would be a lot more entertaining with more evenly matched teams. Teams would spend the appropriate amount of money for their level because they wouldn't all be trying to follow a fantasy of getting into a higher level.

The current system is killing midrange teams. It is like watching a car race where a bunch of drivers in Yugo's are burning out their engines with their pedal to the floor, trying to keep up with Porsches.

I honestly think separating the top from the middle will reinvigorate the middle tier allowing them to play competitive games and compete for championships as medium sized frogs in medium sized ponds.

---

I am not arguing with your reasoning. But to me if there is major shrinkage in the number of viable college teams, it will shrink the available players who can be recruited by the Pros.
Right now there is a very large pool of potential Pro players. Many come out of Podunk Universities.
What happens when that large pool dries up to just 32 or 36 teams.
Remember that A. Rodgers was recruited by Cal of a J.C. because no other school wanted to take a chance on him.
Take away Cal and there would have been no A. Rodgers.
Take away Cal and that would likely dry up J.C. football.
Which schools (4-year or J.C. would be willing to spend money to keep alive College Football if that school has no hope of making its college football program economically feasible.)

I see Pro Football sowing the seeds of its own destruction in the long run.

---

I think the idea here is that the smaller schools would still recruit those players and give them chances, and if they blew up (like Rodgers) then the top league would get them in the transfer portal.

Heck, star NFL players still got drafted from the I-AA / FCS ranks in the old days too (Jerry Rice, Steve McNair, etc.). The NFL will find their talent wherever it is.

---

The problem i see with your reply is that it assumes that smaller schools would keep their College Football programs. Sustaining a college football program costs a ton of money (unlike MBB, WBB, college baseball).
If the TV money is paid to the top 32-36 teams, we will see more and more mid-level and lower level schools closing down their College Football programs. That will reduce the vast pool of college football players who currently play College Football. (There will be an ever shrinking pool of available college football players.)

It will also reduce the number of college football coaches who are available. Remember that J. Harbaugh got his start coaching the University of San Diego (i.e. NOT San Diego State). Then he was hired straight into the HC job at Stanford.

Maybe the NFL will come to its senses and finance the creation of Minor League Football.

---

sycasey said:

---

GivemTheAxe said:

---

sycasey said:

---

GivemTheAxe said:

---

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

golden sloth said:

---

I do wonder what the final end game is for conference realignment is. I can't help but imagine that both the Big 10 and SEC continue to gobble up the final 8 - 12 big name properties and markets, then implement a system maximizing the SEC and Big 10 payouts and control with only token participation from the remaining conferences and schools. Obviously, the ACC and Big 12 drop to be mid-major level (similar to the Pac).

For the Big 10, I think they eventually expand to a total of 24 schools with four divisions of (6) schools each. In football, you'd play everyone in your division every year and play one school from the other divisions. I think they'd also schedule an SEC - Big 10 challenge where you play two games against the other conference every year (one home, one away). That is ten SEC/Big 10 opponents every season, with two cupcake home games. Each school would have 7 home game and 5 away games. That makes sense to me.

As for the divisions, I'd imagine it would be something along the lines of:

Div 1:
1. Penn State
2. Maryland
3. Rutgers
4. North Carolina
5. Miami
6. TBD

TBD: One of Clemson, Florida State, Virginia, Georgia Tech
They could also take two of the TBDs and push Penn State to Div 2 and Northwestern to Div 3.

Div 2:
1. Ohio State
2. Michigan
3. Michigan State
4. Purdue
5. Indiana
6. Northwestern (NW could easily switch will Illinois if needed)

Div 3:
1. Illinois
2. Wisconsin
3. Minnesota
4. Iowa
5. Nebraska
6. TBD

TBD: One of Kansas, Utah, Colorado

Div 4:
1. USC
2. UCLA
3. Washington
4. Oregon
5. TBD
6. TBD

TBD: Two of Cal, Stanford, Arizona, Arizona St, Utah

This assumes, Notre Dame remains independent. If they do, they can choose their division taking either a TBD spot, or moving Northwestern to Division 3. Also assumes the Big 10 can't poach from the SEC.

---

We are hanging on to a system that no longer works or makes any sense. I do think it is going to evolve to something that makes sense, but right now it is doing so in a haphazard manner that is taking too long.

First of all, let's get acceptance that College football and men's basketball are professional sports leagues now. Second of all, they are two different professional sports leagues. There is really no reason that schools in the same football conference need to also be in the same basketball conference.

College football and basketball are fundamentally different business models. Football is hell expensive. You need 5 times the number of quality players to field a competitive football team than you need in basketball, meaning a lower level team can't get lucky with one or two guys and compete. There is more money making potential in football. Football is more about a whole system of strength and conditioning to develop bodies. A 240 lb player cannot just outskill a 300lb player. As a result, a school like St. Mary's can compete in basketball where even if they wanted to they have no chance to compete in football.

Just discussing football because I think it is more black and white. There are not 40, 50, 60 teams that are financially viable. Pro sports leagues in the US have pretty well settled in around 30 teams, I think there is a good reason for this. Get much beyond that and you spread the product too thin. Also, the disparity between the haves and the have nots is just too great.

The college football organization has been blown up. The NCAA was barely a business organization and it was terrible at it. The SEC and the Big 10 are the de facto major leagues here. They need to join together with business sponsorship and form a league that is an actual private business not related to school administrations or state governments. They need to have a league of 32 or 36 teams. They have the management invite teams to apply and then pick the teams based on long term financial viability and that is it. They form a self contained league and they do not play anybody else. Structure the league similar to the NFL. Similar schedules. Similar playoffs so you don't have this idiotic "I lost two games now I'm out" BS. And It will be best for all concerned. Cut off the dreams of the teams that can't accept that they can never compete so they stop being idiots with their money. Then out of those teams you'll see another league - cheaper to run because they can't afford more - that will form out of the next 32 or 36 teams.

This would also bring more stability with the personnel. The top league will barely recruit high school players because they are too risky and be subject to leaving anyway. They will take only the very cream of the crop out of high school and otherwise hire guys who have proven themselves in the lower leagues. The lower leagues would be made up of young players and experienced players who can't make it in the top leagues.

There would be a lot more stability and competitiveness within leagues. No more 60 point destruction games. Games would be a lot more entertaining with more evenly matched teams. Teams would spend the appropriate amount of money for their level because they wouldn't all be trying to follow a fantasy of getting into a higher level.

The current system is killing midrange teams. It is like watching a car race where a bunch of drivers in Yugo's are burning out their engines with their pedal to the floor, trying to keep up with Porsches.

I honestly think separating the top from the middle will reinvigorate the middle tier allowing them to play competitive games and compete for championships as medium sized frogs in medium sized ponds.

---

I am not arguing with your reasoning. But to me if there is major shrinkage in the number of viable college teams, it will shrink the available players who can be recruited by the Pros.
Right now there is a very large pool of potential Pro players. Many come out of Podunk Universities.
What happens when that large pool dries up to just 32 or 36 teams.
Remember that A. Rodgers was recruited by Cal of a J.C. because no other school wanted to take a chance on him.
Take away Cal and there would have been no A. Rodgers.
Take away Cal and that would likely dry up J.C. football.
Which schools (4-year or J.C. would be willing to spend money to keep alive College Football if that school has no hope of making its college football program economically feasible.)

I see Pro Football sowing the seeds of its own destruction in the long run.

---

I think the idea here is that the smaller schools would still recruit those players and give them chances, and if they blew up (like Rodgers) then the top league would get them in the transfer portal.

Heck, star NFL players still got drafted from the I-AA / FCS ranks in the old days too (Jerry Rice, Steve McNair, etc.). The NFL will find their talent wherever it is.

---

The problem i see with your reply is that it assumes that smaller schools would keep their College Football programs. Sustaining a college football program costs a ton of money (unlike MBB, WBB, college baseball).
If the TV money is paid to the top 32-36 teams, we will see more and more mid-level and lower level schools closing down their College Football programs. That will reduce the vast pool of college football players who currently play College Football. (There will be an ever shrinking pool of available college football players.)

It will also reduce the number of college football coaches who are available. Remember that J. Harbaugh got his start coaching the University of San Diego (i.e. NOT San Diego State). Then he was hired straight into the HC job at Stanford.

Maybe the NFL will come to its senses and finance the creation of Minor League Football.

---

If English football is the model, then even there the 2nd and 3rd tier leagues still have TV deals and money paid out, they just get less of it. Which is not too far off from what we have now, with the B1G and SEC money compared to the ACC and Big 12, compared to the G5 leagues and so forth.

---

sycasey said:

---

GivemTheAxe said:

---

sycasey said:

---

GivemTheAxe said:

---

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

golden sloth said:

---

I do wonder what the final end game is for conference realignment is. I can't help but imagine that both the Big 10 and SEC continue to gobble up the final 8 - 12 big name properties and markets, then implement a system maximizing the SEC and Big 10 payouts and control with only token participation from the remaining conferences and schools. Obviously, the ACC and Big 12 drop to be mid-major level (similar to the Pac).

For the Big 10, I think they eventually expand to a total of 24 schools with four divisions of (6) schools each. In football, you'd play everyone in your division every year and play one school from the other divisions. I think they'd also schedule an SEC - Big 10 challenge where you play two games against the other conference every year (one home, one away). That is ten SEC/Big 10 opponents every season, with two cupcake home games. Each school would have 7 home game and 5 away games. That makes sense to me.

As for the divisions, I'd imagine it would be something along the lines of:

Div 1:
1. Penn State
2. Maryland
3. Rutgers
4. North Carolina
5. Miami
6. TBD

TBD: One of Clemson, Florida State, Virginia, Georgia Tech
They could also take two of the TBDs and push Penn State to Div 2 and Northwestern to Div 3.

Div 2:
1. Ohio State
2. Michigan
3. Michigan State
4. Purdue
5. Indiana
6. Northwestern (NW could easily switch will Illinois if needed)

Div 3:
1. Illinois
2. Wisconsin
3. Minnesota
4. Iowa
5. Nebraska
6. TBD

TBD: One of Kansas, Utah, Colorado

Div 4:
1. USC
2. UCLA
3. Washington
4. Oregon
5. TBD
6. TBD

TBD: Two of Cal, Stanford, Arizona, Arizona St, Utah

This assumes, Notre Dame remains independent. If they do, they can choose their division taking either a TBD spot, or moving Northwestern to Division 3. Also assumes the Big 10 can't poach from the SEC.

---

We are hanging on to a system that no longer works or makes any sense. I do think it is going to evolve to something that makes sense, but right now it is doing so in a haphazard manner that is taking too long.

First of all, let's get acceptance that College football and men's basketball are professional sports leagues now. Second of all, they are two different professional sports leagues. There is really no reason that schools in the same football conference need to also be in the same basketball conference.

College football and basketball are fundamentally different business models. Football is hell expensive. You need 5 times the number of quality players to field a competitive football team than you need in basketball, meaning a lower level team can't get lucky with one or two guys and compete. There is more money making potential in football. Football is more about a whole system of strength and conditioning to develop bodies. A 240 lb player cannot just outskill a 300lb player. As a result, a school like St. Mary's can compete in basketball where even if they wanted to they have no chance to compete in football.

Just discussing football because I think it is more black and white. There are not 40, 50, 60 teams that are financially viable. Pro sports leagues in the US have pretty well settled in around 30 teams, I think there is a good reason for this. Get much beyond that and you spread the product too thin. Also, the disparity between the haves and the have nots is just too great.

The college football organization has been blown up. The NCAA was barely a business organization and it was terrible at it. The SEC and the Big 10 are the de facto major leagues here. They need to join together with business sponsorship and form a league that is an actual private business not related to school administrations or state governments. They need to have a league of 32 or 36 teams. They have the management invite teams to apply and then pick the teams based on long term financial viability and that is it. They form a self contained league and they do not play anybody else. Structure the league similar to the NFL. Similar schedules. Similar playoffs so you don't have this idiotic "I lost two games now I'm out" BS. And It will be best for all concerned. Cut off the dreams of the teams that can't accept that they can never compete so they stop being idiots with their money. Then out of those teams you'll see another league - cheaper to run because they can't afford more - that will form out of the next 32 or 36 teams.

This would also bring more stability with the personnel. The top league will barely recruit high school players because they are too risky and be subject to leaving anyway. They will take only the very cream of the crop out of high school and otherwise hire guys who have proven themselves in the lower leagues. The lower leagues would be made up of young players and experienced players who can't make it in the top leagues.

There would be a lot more stability and competitiveness within leagues. No more 60 point destruction games. Games would be a lot more entertaining with more evenly matched teams. Teams would spend the appropriate amount of money for their level because they wouldn't all be trying to follow a fantasy of getting into a higher level.

The current system is killing midrange teams. It is like watching a car race where a bunch of drivers in Yugo's are burning out their engines with their pedal to the floor, trying to keep up with Porsches.

I honestly think separating the top from the middle will reinvigorate the middle tier allowing them to play competitive games and compete for championships as medium sized frogs in medium sized ponds.

---

I am not arguing with your reasoning. But to me if there is major shrinkage in the number of viable college teams, it will shrink the available players who can be recruited by the Pros.
Right now there is a very large pool of potential Pro players. Many come out of Podunk Universities.
What happens when that large pool dries up to just 32 or 36 teams.
Remember that A. Rodgers was recruited by Cal of a J.C. because no other school wanted to take a chance on him.
Take away Cal and there would have been no A. Rodgers.
Take away Cal and that would likely dry up J.C. football.
Which schools (4-year or J.C. would be willing to spend money to keep alive College Football if that school has no hope of making its college football program economically feasible.)

I see Pro Football sowing the seeds of its own destruction in the long run.

---

I think the idea here is that the smaller schools would still recruit those players and give them chances, and if they blew up (like Rodgers) then the top league would get them in the transfer portal.

Heck, star NFL players still got drafted from the I-AA / FCS ranks in the old days too (Jerry Rice, Steve McNair, etc.). The NFL will find their talent wherever it is.

---

The problem i see with your reply is that it assumes that smaller schools would keep their College Football programs. Sustaining a college football program costs a ton of money (unlike MBB, WBB, college baseball).
If the TV money is paid to the top 32-36 teams, we will see more and more mid-level and lower level schools closing down their College Football programs. That will reduce the vast pool of college football players who currently play College Football. (There will be an ever shrinking pool of available college football players.)

It will also reduce the number of college football coaches who are available. Remember that J. Harbaugh got his start coaching the University of San Diego (i.e. NOT San Diego State). Then he was hired straight into the HC job at Stanford.

Maybe the NFL will come to its senses and finance the creation of Minor League Football.

---

If English football is the model, then even there the 2nd and 3rd tier leagues still have TV deals and money paid out, they just get less of it. Which is not too far off from what we have now, with the B1G and SEC money compared to the ACC and Big 12, compared to the G5 leagues and so forth.

---

Bearly Clad said:

---

Gotta say, if our best scenarios for a B10 bid amount to:

1. Notre Dame and LSJU drag us along again

or


2. Maybe everyone else in the ACC turns them down and we're the last dance partner left unless they wanna go for Toledo to get a piece of that seeet, sweet MACtion

Then we're not looking particularly good with the realignment deadline quickly approaching. Who knows though, maybe the Calgorithm puts in overtime work to make us endearing/polarizing enough to the point where we're considered a brand.

Honestly though the whole downfall of CFB can be traced to one thing, imo, the national championship game/CFP. College football was at it's best when what mattered most was regionalism, rivalries, winning your conference, making a bowl game (and they actually mattered enough for guys to care to play in them), the regular season mattered most but bowl season was a big deal too, and the season ended on New Year's Day with the Rose, Orange, Cotton, and Sugar Bowls. No one will ever convince me otherwise. The obsession to not have a disputed national champion and to find out who was really #1 led to the national championship game (which was bad enough) and now the CFP. In caring about who was #1 we've turned away from what made CFB the greatest sport league on the planet and made the regular season and bowl season meaningless for about 117 out of 132 D1 teams

---

Bearly Clad said:

---

Gotta say, if our best scenarios for a B10 bid amount to:

1. Notre Dame and LSJU drag us along again

or


2. Maybe everyone else in the ACC turns them down and we're the last dance partner left unless they wanna go for Toledo to get a piece of that seeet, sweet MACtion

Then we're not looking particularly good with the realignment deadline quickly approaching. Who knows though, maybe the Calgorithm puts in overtime work to make us endearing/polarizing enough to the point where we're considered a brand.

Honestly though the whole downfall of CFB can be traced to one thing, imo, the national championship game/CFP. College football was at it's best when what mattered most was regionalism, rivalries, winning your conference, making a bowl game (and they actually mattered enough for guys to care to play in them), the regular season mattered most but bowl season was a big deal too, and the season ended on New Year's Day with the Rose, Orange, Cotton, and Sugar Bowls. No one will ever convince me otherwise. The obsession to not have a disputed national champion and to find out who was really #1 led to the national championship game (which was bad enough) and now the CFP. In caring about who was #1 we've turned away from what made CFB the greatest sport league on the planet and made the regular season and bowl season meaningless for about 117 out of 132 D1 teams

---

GivemTheAxe said:

---

Bearly Clad said:

---

Gotta say, if our best scenarios for a B10 bid amount to:

1. Notre Dame and LSJU drag us along again

or


2. Maybe everyone else in the ACC turns them down and we're the last dance partner left unless they wanna go for Toledo to get a piece of that seeet, sweet MACtion

Then we're not looking particularly good with the realignment deadline quickly approaching. Who knows though, maybe the Calgorithm puts in overtime work to make us endearing/polarizing enough to the point where we're considered a brand.

Honestly though the whole downfall of CFB can be traced to one thing, imo, the national championship game/CFP. College football was at it's best when what mattered most was regionalism, rivalries, winning your conference, making a bowl game (and they actually mattered enough for guys to care to play in them), the regular season mattered most but bowl season was a big deal too, and the season ended on New Year's Day with the Rose, Orange, Cotton, and Sugar Bowls. No one will ever convince me otherwise. The obsession to not have a disputed national champion and to find out who was really #1 led to the national championship game (which was bad enough) and now the CFP. In caring about who was #1 we've turned away from what made CFB the greatest sport league on the planet and made the regular season and bowl season meaningless for about 117 out of 132 D1 teams

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I totally agree with you. Back then I also made the argument that the quest for a definitive #1 would destroy college football as we knew it.

The old system was so much better.
Regional rivalries drove the regional bowl games.
Regional rivalries drove TV viewership
At the end of the Bowl season there were multiple Winners ( I.e. the winners of their bowl games, their fans, their coaches.). A perfect Win-win-win situation.

For the most part today's winners could change every year of so. So fans of today's losers could have hope ("wait til next year).

Unfortunately too many colleges, fans, coaches and most of all TV got greedy. They wanted a national champion in order to squeeze every drop of money and fame from every CFB season.

I honestly believe that CFB in its past iteration could have continued to flourish even with the NIL and with rational LIMITED player access to the Portal

But NIL and unlimited access to the Portal blew up CFB when added to the insane drive to find a #1. ["Gasoline meet fire".]

Any way that is my two cents.

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Bobodeluxe said:

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"given academics"

Hahahahahahahahahaha!

Academics mean nothing in the Professional Minor Leagues.

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BearoutEast67 said:

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Eventually, there will be only two leagues: Union and Confederacy.

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golden sloth said:

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sycasey said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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golden sloth said:

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I do wonder what the final end game is for conference realignment is. I can't help but imagine that both the Big 10 and SEC continue to gobble up the final 8 - 12 big name properties and markets, then implement a system maximizing the SEC and Big 10 payouts and control with only token participation from the remaining conferences and schools. Obviously, the ACC and Big 12 drop to be mid-major level (similar to the Pac).

For the Big 10, I think they eventually expand to a total of 24 schools with four divisions of (6) schools each. In football, you'd play everyone in your division every year and play one school from the other divisions. I think they'd also schedule an SEC - Big 10 challenge where you play two games against the other conference every year (one home, one away). That is ten SEC/Big 10 opponents every season, with two cupcake home games. Each school would have 7 home game and 5 away games. That makes sense to me.

As for the divisions, I'd imagine it would be something along the lines of:

Div 1:
1. Penn State
2. Maryland
3. Rutgers
4. North Carolina
5. Miami
6. TBD

TBD: One of Clemson, Florida State, Virginia, Georgia Tech
They could also take two of the TBDs and push Penn State to Div 2 and Northwestern to Div 3.

Div 2:
1. Ohio State
2. Michigan
3. Michigan State
4. Purdue
5. Indiana
6. Northwestern (NW could easily switch will Illinois if needed)

Div 3:
1. Illinois
2. Wisconsin
3. Minnesota
4. Iowa
5. Nebraska
6. TBD

TBD: One of Kansas, Utah, Colorado

Div 4:
1. USC
2. UCLA
3. Washington
4. Oregon
5. TBD
6. TBD

TBD: Two of Cal, Stanford, Arizona, Arizona St, Utah

This assumes, Notre Dame remains independent. If they do, they can choose their division taking either a TBD spot, or moving Northwestern to Division 3. Also assumes the Big 10 can't poach from the SEC.

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This is interesting stuff. One observation is this framework really doesn't work for basketball. If that sport mattered, you have UConn, Gonzaga, Duke and other elite programs in.conferences. You also lose the concept that academics matter. Then again, TV revenues seem to drive realignment, so this structure starts making sense.

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Maybe the need is for football to have a conference structure completely different from all other sports.

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Chip Kelly made that point a few years ago and it's a good, logical point and an easy adjustment.

Have conference affiliation for football be separated from all the other sports. The other sports can be regional (thus save a ton on travel), and frees up football to chase that money with the national super conference model (even though I still hate the national conference model).

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GivemTheAxe said:

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sycasey said:

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GivemTheAxe said:

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sycasey said:

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GivemTheAxe said:

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BearlyCareAnymore said:

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golden sloth said:

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I do wonder what the final end game is for conference realignment is. I can't help but imagine that both the Big 10 and SEC continue to gobble up the final 8 - 12 big name properties and markets, then implement a system maximizing the SEC and Big 10 payouts and control with only token participation from the remaining conferences and schools. Obviously, the ACC and Big 12 drop to be mid-major level (similar to the Pac).

For the Big 10, I think they eventually expand to a total of 24 schools with four divisions of (6) schools each. In football, you'd play everyone in your division every year and play one school from the other divisions. I think they'd also schedule an SEC - Big 10 challenge where you play two games against the other conference every year (one home, one away). That is ten SEC/Big 10 opponents every season, with two cupcake home games. Each school would have 7 home game and 5 away games. That makes sense to me.

As for the divisions, I'd imagine it would be something along the lines of:

Div 1:
1. Penn State
2. Maryland
3. Rutgers
4. North Carolina
5. Miami
6. TBD

TBD: One of Clemson, Florida State, Virginia, Georgia Tech
They could also take two of the TBDs and push Penn State to Div 2 and Northwestern to Div 3.

Div 2:
1. Ohio State
2. Michigan
3. Michigan State
4. Purdue
5. Indiana
6. Northwestern (NW could easily switch will Illinois if needed)

Div 3:
1. Illinois
2. Wisconsin
3. Minnesota
4. Iowa
5. Nebraska
6. TBD

TBD: One of Kansas, Utah, Colorado

Div 4:
1. USC
2. UCLA
3. Washington
4. Oregon
5. TBD
6. TBD

TBD: Two of Cal, Stanford, Arizona, Arizona St, Utah

This assumes, Notre Dame remains independent. If they do, they can choose their division taking either a TBD spot, or moving Northwestern to Division 3. Also assumes the Big 10 can't poach from the SEC.

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We are hanging on to a system that no longer works or makes any sense. I do think it is going to evolve to something that makes sense, but right now it is doing so in a haphazard manner that is taking too long.

First of all, let's get acceptance that College football and men's basketball are professional sports leagues now. Second of all, they are two different professional sports leagues. There is really no reason that schools in the same football conference need to also be in the same basketball conference.

College football and basketball are fundamentally different business models. Football is hell expensive. You need 5 times the number of quality players to field a competitive football team than you need in basketball, meaning a lower level team can't get lucky with one or two guys and compete. There is more money making potential in football. Football is more about a whole system of strength and conditioning to develop bodies. A 240 lb player cannot just outskill a 300lb player. As a result, a school like St. Mary's can compete in basketball where even if they wanted to they have no chance to compete in football.

Just discussing football because I think it is more black and white. There are not 40, 50, 60 teams that are financially viable. Pro sports leagues in the US have pretty well settled in around 30 teams, I think there is a good reason for this. Get much beyond that and you spread the product too thin. Also, the disparity between the haves and the have nots is just too great.

The college football organization has been blown up. The NCAA was barely a business organization and it was terrible at it. The SEC and the Big 10 are the de facto major leagues here. They need to join together with business sponsorship and form a league that is an actual private business not related to school administrations or state governments. They need to have a league of 32 or 36 teams. They have the management invite teams to apply and then pick the teams based on long term financial viability and that is it. They form a self contained league and they do not play anybody else. Structure the league similar to the NFL. Similar schedules. Similar playoffs so you don't have this idiotic "I lost two games now I'm out" BS. And It will be best for all concerned. Cut off the dreams of the teams that can't accept that they can never compete so they stop being idiots with their money. Then out of those teams you'll see another league - cheaper to run because they can't afford more - that will form out of the next 32 or 36 teams.

This would also bring more stability with the personnel. The top league will barely recruit high school players because they are too risky and be subject to leaving anyway. They will take only the very cream of the crop out of high school and otherwise hire guys who have proven themselves in the lower leagues. The lower leagues would be made up of young players and experienced players who can't make it in the top leagues.

There would be a lot more stability and competitiveness within leagues. No more 60 point destruction games. Games would be a lot more entertaining with more evenly matched teams. Teams would spend the appropriate amount of money for their level because they wouldn't all be trying to follow a fantasy of getting into a higher level.

The current system is killing midrange teams. It is like watching a car race where a bunch of drivers in Yugo's are burning out their engines with their pedal to the floor, trying to keep up with Porsches.

I honestly think separating the top from the middle will reinvigorate the middle tier allowing them to play competitive games and compete for championships as medium sized frogs in medium sized ponds.

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I am not arguing with your reasoning. But to me if there is major shrinkage in the number of viable college teams, it will shrink the available players who can be recruited by the Pros.
Right now there is a very large pool of potential Pro players. Many come out of Podunk Universities.
What happens when that large pool dries up to just 32 or 36 teams.
Remember that A. Rodgers was recruited by Cal of a J.C. because no other school wanted to take a chance on him.
Take away Cal and there would have been no A. Rodgers.
Take away Cal and that would likely dry up J.C. football.
Which schools (4-year or J.C. would be willing to spend money to keep alive College Football if that school has no hope of making its college football program economically feasible.)

I see Pro Football sowing the seeds of its own destruction in the long run.

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I think the idea here is that the smaller schools would still recruit those players and give them chances, and if they blew up (like Rodgers) then the top league would get them in the transfer portal.

Heck, star NFL players still got drafted from the I-AA / FCS ranks in the old days too (Jerry Rice, Steve McNair, etc.). The NFL will find their talent wherever it is.

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The problem i see with your reply is that it assumes that smaller schools would keep their College Football programs. Sustaining a college football program costs a ton of money (unlike MBB, WBB, college baseball).
If the TV money is paid to the top 32-36 teams, we will see more and more mid-level and lower level schools closing down their College Football programs. That will reduce the vast pool of college football players who currently play College Football. (There will be an ever shrinking pool of available college football players.)

It will also reduce the number of college football coaches who are available. Remember that J. Harbaugh got his start coaching the University of San Diego (i.e. NOT San Diego State). Then he was hired straight into the HC job at Stanford.

Maybe the NFL will come to its senses and finance the creation of Minor League Football.

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If English football is the model, then even there the 2nd and 3rd tier leagues still have TV deals and money paid out, they just get less of it. Which is not too far off from what we have now, with the B1G and SEC money compared to the ACC and Big 12, compared to the G5 leagues and so forth.

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The ACC report on Cal earlier this year (before the projections for the upcoming season) came to the conclusion that What happened to Cal during the past 12 months are an object lesson as what will happen to the mid-tier teams.

Cal was able to recruit and field a credible team for 2024. However Cal was not able to retain that team because of the Portal and the NIL Cal did not have the money to do so. Unless Cal was able to get sufficient big donors to "play with the Big Boys", Cal would be forever stuck in a Catch-22 situation. "It cannot improve because it does not have enough money. It can not get enough money until it can improve."

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Anarchistbear said:

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Big is a much better fit for UNC given academics ,other sports . Plus the Big would love a footprint south of Maryland

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sycasey said:

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Cal's NIL has actually been fairly competitive. The real changes that need to happen are under the hood: having an athletic department that actually supports the football team rather than hamstring it, a coaching staff that actually maximizes the talent given to it, an administration that actually gives a s*** about winning, etc.

Recent developments with Rivera's hire and Knowlton's departure have been encouraging, but is it happening quickly enough? Will it continue? Or will Cal once again get squirrelly about being a real football school, like they did with Snyder and Tedford? I don't know.

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