bearsandgiants said:

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calumnus said:

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BearlyCareAnymore said:

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GivemTheAxe said:

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4thGenCal said:

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HearstMining said:

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For football players at Cal, football is the most important thing, but it's part of a whole. At Oklahoma, football is the ONLY thing. I can accept that because that's been Cal's sports culture as long as I can remember - juggling academics with athletics. So the challenge is to recruit and coach players who can excel in that environment. The lousy results over the last fifteen years speak for themselves.

I thought Ott's comment was careful, focused on the players and not the coaching staff. In particular, he did not dump on the school. What the comment does indicate is that Cal's football staff just doesn't hold some players accountable, whether for meeting attendance, physical training, or whatever.

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Yes - I personally moved him to different housing as at the time, He had a much different focus for football prep than his room mates. He was unique in his laser focus approach to be the best He could be. He got along with His teammates, it's just that He was more disciplined on and off the field. Flip side what was incredibly disappointing to several of us, who truly looked out for him/coached him/mentored him/put excellent NIL package etc was his impulsive nature to break his word - when deals had been re structured etc. Complex situation around his leaving - both sides had legitimate beefs. But an extremely good offer (better than OU offered) was agreed to with Cal, only to be broken literally w/in a few days. Ott did get his degree - impressive. And several factors nagged him including the medical staff misdiagnosis of a high ankle grade 3 sprain (came back too early), AT essentially not being retained (not fired but offered unacceptable terms) and then his frustration with promises of an improved Oline over the past couple of seasons that did not materialize.
Bottom line - it's in the rear view mirror- it's all about the current Cal football team/players/coaches/staff and the focus, to kick butt and excel this season. Best of luck to Ott and may He do well and get drafted high.

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i see from what has been said about Ott that there were at least two points of friction.

1. Ott's lazer focus on football. and his dissatisfaction with other players for whom this was not true. To me this has usually not been the situation with so many Cal players since at Cal the student athlete must be BOTH a student and an athlete. Of course at Oklahoma the reverse is true. So of course Ott would find the atmosphere would be more inviting to him at Oklahoma that it would at Cal.

2. i was very troubled by the comments that Ott was perceived as having an impulsive nature to break his word 'AFTER' an extremely good offer (better than OU offer) was 'agreed to' with Cal.

Many young kids are impulsive. I would guess that many young athletes might be impulsive. But a young kid (in his early 20's?) who will be involved in many contract negotiations in football and outside football must learn that being impulsive and after agreeing to an extremely good (better than OU offered) can come back to haunt him. [Nothing was said about whether other parties - parents, agents, etc.- were involved in the discussions.]

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1. It is not going to come back to haunt him.
2. Adults of all ages come to agreements all the time only to get an offer they perceive as better before things are finalized and switch. Hell, companies do that all the time.

3. I suspect better offer in this case means more money. That is only one part of the offer. Most people would take an unpaid internship at Google over a paid position as fry cook at McDonalds. Even if we offered more money than OU, OU has more to offer outside of money.

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100%
If Cal offered Ott more money than OU and he was planning to come back, then it really must have been the new offensive staff that caused ALL our RBs, WRs and our starting TE to leave, at least in Ott's case, in spite of Cal offering more money. But sure, Cal fans rally around the coaches and instead blame and criticize the fellow Cal alum that is only making the best decision he can for his own life. That is what many did with Mark Fox too, at least until we finally fired him. Then no one claimed to ever have supported him, and now that Matt Bradley is coming back to Cal as a grad assistant no one will own up to having criticized him for finally having had enough of Fox and leaving like most of his teammates had already done.

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I'd like to see a few games this season before going down this route. For a guy who suggests a bunch of players didn't have the chops to put in the work here, Ott seems to have run away from a staff that demands just that. So either this new staff is complete horse poo, or Ott is the ass. Let's see how it plays out.

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The players didn't flee Fox because "they didn't want to put in the work." Bradley was an extremely hard working young man.
The players didn't flee Harsin at Auburn because "they didn't want to put in the work."
Players who were already starters don't go to Indiana, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Texas, UCLA because "they don't want to do the work."

That is how Knowlton defended McKeever and how Knowlton defended Fox: "tough coach." Harsin was not investigated at Auburn for being a "tough coach."

bearsandgiants said:

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calumnus said:

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BearlyCareAnymore said:

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GivemTheAxe said:

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4thGenCal said:

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HearstMining said:

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For football players at Cal, football is the most important thing, but it's part of a whole. At Oklahoma, football is the ONLY thing. I can accept that because that's been Cal's sports culture as long as I can remember - juggling academics with athletics. So the challenge is to recruit and coach players who can excel in that environment. The lousy results over the last fifteen years speak for themselves.

I thought Ott's comment was careful, focused on the players and not the coaching staff. In particular, he did not dump on the school. What the comment does indicate is that Cal's football staff just doesn't hold some players accountable, whether for meeting attendance, physical training, or whatever.

---

Yes - I personally moved him to different housing as at the time, He had a much different focus for football prep than his room mates. He was unique in his laser focus approach to be the best He could be. He got along with His teammates, it's just that He was more disciplined on and off the field. Flip side what was incredibly disappointing to several of us, who truly looked out for him/coached him/mentored him/put excellent NIL package etc was his impulsive nature to break his word - when deals had been re structured etc. Complex situation around his leaving - both sides had legitimate beefs. But an extremely good offer (better than OU offered) was agreed to with Cal, only to be broken literally w/in a few days. Ott did get his degree - impressive. And several factors nagged him including the medical staff misdiagnosis of a high ankle grade 3 sprain (came back too early), AT essentially not being retained (not fired but offered unacceptable terms) and then his frustration with promises of an improved Oline over the past couple of seasons that did not materialize.
Bottom line - it's in the rear view mirror- it's all about the current Cal football team/players/coaches/staff and the focus, to kick butt and excel this season. Best of luck to Ott and may He do well and get drafted high.

---

i see from what has been said about Ott that there were at least two points of friction.

1. Ott's lazer focus on football. and his dissatisfaction with other players for whom this was not true. To me this has usually not been the situation with so many Cal players since at Cal the student athlete must be BOTH a student and an athlete. Of course at Oklahoma the reverse is true. So of course Ott would find the atmosphere would be more inviting to him at Oklahoma that it would at Cal.

2. i was very troubled by the comments that Ott was perceived as having an impulsive nature to break his word 'AFTER' an extremely good offer (better than OU offer) was 'agreed to' with Cal.

Many young kids are impulsive. I would guess that many young athletes might be impulsive. But a young kid (in his early 20's?) who will be involved in many contract negotiations in football and outside football must learn that being impulsive and after agreeing to an extremely good (better than OU offered) can come back to haunt him. [Nothing was said about whether other parties - parents, agents, etc.- were involved in the discussions.]

---

1. It is not going to come back to haunt him.
2. Adults of all ages come to agreements all the time only to get an offer they perceive as better before things are finalized and switch. Hell, companies do that all the time.

3. I suspect better offer in this case means more money. That is only one part of the offer. Most people would take an unpaid internship at Google over a paid position as fry cook at McDonalds. Even if we offered more money than OU, OU has more to offer outside of money.

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100%
If Cal offered Ott more money than OU and he was planning to come back, then it really must have been the new offensive staff that caused ALL our RBs, WRs and our starting TE to leave, at least in Ott's case, in spite of Cal offering more money. But sure, Cal fans rally around the coaches and instead blame and criticize the fellow Cal alum that is only making the best decision he can for his own life. That is what many did with Mark Fox too, at least until we finally fired him. Then no one claimed to ever have supported him, and now that Matt Bradley is coming back to Cal as a grad assistant no one will own up to having criticized him for finally having had enough of Fox and leaving like most of his teammates had already done.

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I'd like to see a few games this season before going down this route. For a guy who suggests a bunch of players didn't have the chops to put in the work here, Ott seems to have run away from a staff that demands just that. So either this new staff is complete horse poo, or Ott is the ass. Let's see how it plays out.

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As usually typical in these situations- both sides that are pro Ott / negative on coaching staff/Cal culture issues vs Ott betrayed us/ reneged on his word, was a prima dona, etc have valid points. So just the facts 1) He got his Cal degree 2) lingering frustration with ankle mis diagnosis by medical staff and the time passing to get his contract/NIL amount raised - 3 months total time 3) When AT left - actually more accurately - forced out, that really was a gut punch as the RB room and Ott were very close to him 4) Work ethic He felt was not consistent amongst the players(not uniformingly committed as he certainly respected many players), 5) He felt that the depth of the Oline was not where it needed to be to win and give him lanes to excel. And He had been with the program for 3 years, with little progress for that unit 5) He butted heads with the new RB coach 6) He did help when asked to host recruits . Flip side 1) Program bent over backwards to take care of him in many areas - and in problems that came up (not team related) mentoring and issues were resolved (will leave this private)- 2) Housing situations initially were resolved, 3) academic tutoring sessions were consistent 4) NIL was raised to the level He asked for - and thru the Collective, and myself along with key Program staff leaders - He agreed to the deal and signed the NIL contract. Note these contracts can be broken. The deal was 100% better than OU (I know that along with the Collective etc and per Ott) not a large margin but factoring in everything in the $100K+- range (but to be fair, state taxes are also lower in Oklahoma). Then after breaking the Cal NIL deal - which He had set the amount required and was met by.the Collective, He verbally agreed to wait one week to see if some game changing Oline guys were committing. Then He once again, broke that promise 24 hours later and said - it was done - He was committing and signing with OU. Bottom line - He felt He would shine better elsewhere and what hurt was that there were several people in and out of the program, that really went the extra mile for him. So yes I feel - He acted poorly in his exit and to then state a cryptic incomplete description of his time at Cal, was unprofessional and ungrateful . Final flip side - an apology text for his interview comments were sent out to a select few with admitting He did not handle that interview professionally, however no follow up tweet etc as He promised, has occurred yet.
As stated before, both sides should move on - the Cal program is 100% focused on who is in camp. Personally I am certainly disappointed for the effort put in by many, to have him finish at Cal (and become the all time leading rusher, plus solidify life long relationships etc). But - it's his choice/life and he did graduate. I really want Cal to have a great season, to show him the lost opportunity by leaving And I still want him to succeed in his dreams both at OU and beyond.

concernedparent said:

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4thGenCal said:

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bearsandgiants said:

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calumnus said:

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BearlyCareAnymore said:

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GivemTheAxe said:

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4thGenCal said:

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HearstMining said:

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For football players at Cal, football is the most important thing, but it's part of a whole. At Oklahoma, football is the ONLY thing. I can accept that because that's been Cal's sports culture as long as I can remember - juggling academics with athletics. So the challenge is to recruit and coach players who can excel in that environment. The lousy results over the last fifteen years speak for themselves.

I thought Ott's comment was careful, focused on the players and not the coaching staff. In particular, he did not dump on the school. What the comment does indicate is that Cal's football staff just doesn't hold some players accountable, whether for meeting attendance, physical training, or whatever.

---

Yes - I personally moved him to different housing as at the time, He had a much different focus for football prep than his room mates. He was unique in his laser focus approach to be the best He could be. He got along with His teammates, it's just that He was more disciplined on and off the field. Flip side what was incredibly disappointing to several of us, who truly looked out for him/coached him/mentored him/put excellent NIL package etc was his impulsive nature to break his word - when deals had been re structured etc. Complex situation around his leaving - both sides had legitimate beefs. But an extremely good offer (better than OU offered) was agreed to with Cal, only to be broken literally w/in a few days. Ott did get his degree - impressive. And several factors nagged him including the medical staff misdiagnosis of a high ankle grade 3 sprain (came back too early), AT essentially not being retained (not fired but offered unacceptable terms) and then his frustration with promises of an improved Oline over the past couple of seasons that did not materialize.
Bottom line - it's in the rear view mirror- it's all about the current Cal football team/players/coaches/staff and the focus, to kick butt and excel this season. Best of luck to Ott and may He do well and get drafted high.

---

i see from what has been said about Ott that there were at least two points of friction.

1. Ott's lazer focus on football. and his dissatisfaction with other players for whom this was not true. To me this has usually not been the situation with so many Cal players since at Cal the student athlete must be BOTH a student and an athlete. Of course at Oklahoma the reverse is true. So of course Ott would find the atmosphere would be more inviting to him at Oklahoma that it would at Cal.

2. i was very troubled by the comments that Ott was perceived as having an impulsive nature to break his word 'AFTER' an extremely good offer (better than OU offer) was 'agreed to' with Cal.

Many young kids are impulsive. I would guess that many young athletes might be impulsive. But a young kid (in his early 20's?) who will be involved in many contract negotiations in football and outside football must learn that being impulsive and after agreeing to an extremely good (better than OU offered) can come back to haunt him. [Nothing was said about whether other parties - parents, agents, etc.- were involved in the discussions.]

---

1. It is not going to come back to haunt him.
2. Adults of all ages come to agreements all the time only to get an offer they perceive as better before things are finalized and switch. Hell, companies do that all the time.

3. I suspect better offer in this case means more money. That is only one part of the offer. Most people would take an unpaid internship at Google over a paid position as fry cook at McDonalds. Even if we offered more money than OU, OU has more to offer outside of money.

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100%
If Cal offered Ott more money than OU and he was planning to come back, then it really must have been the new offensive staff that caused ALL our RBs, WRs and our starting TE to leave, at least in Ott's case, in spite of Cal offering more money. But sure, Cal fans rally around the coaches and instead blame and criticize the fellow Cal alum that is only making the best decision he can for his own life. That is what many did with Mark Fox too, at least until we finally fired him. Then no one claimed to ever have supported him, and now that Matt Bradley is coming back to Cal as a grad assistant no one will own up to having criticized him for finally having had enough of Fox and leaving like most of his teammates had already done.

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I'd like to see a few games this season before going down this route. For a guy who suggests a bunch of players didn't have the chops to put in the work here, Ott seems to have run away from a staff that demands just that. So either this new staff is complete horse poo, or Ott is the ass. Let's see how it plays out.

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... 4) Work ethic He felt was not consistent amongst the players(not uniformingly committed as he certainly respected many players) ...

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I imagine everything you said to be true, but to be fair, this is really the only point he made in the soundbite.

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Absolutely and thus why I am able to be objective. I felt it to be more informative and accurate for those interested, to state the factual background of what lead to his departure - I was the one of his trusted 2-3 people and thus was aware of the issues at hand. And thus did see/understand the complexities of the decision. However - when statements/requests are made and commitments are mutually agreed to, (especially given the proven loyalty to the person) one should honor their word.

I looked at getting Boise State tickets for an Oct 11 game vs New Mexico (not exactly a huge game or rivalry). Ticket demand is so high, the cheapest nosebleed seats were over $300. So different than Berkeley.

I really do understand what he's saying and I say this both knowing that competition is relative and in defense of our program, but…

Oklahoma "care(d) more" their record to the same 6-7 that our Bears had last year and beat our only mutual opponent by the same difference that we did.

Sure, perhaps things may end up different this year, but he didn't need to say this. It does nothing positive for him.

BearlyCareAnymore said:

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GivemTheAxe said:

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4thGenCal said:

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HearstMining said:

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For football players at Cal, football is the most important thing, but it's part of a whole. At Oklahoma, football is the ONLY thing. I can accept that because that's been Cal's sports culture as long as I can remember - juggling academics with athletics. So the challenge is to recruit and coach players who can excel in that environment. The lousy results over the last fifteen years speak for themselves.

I thought Ott's comment was careful, focused on the players and not the coaching staff. In particular, he did not dump on the school. What the comment does indicate is that Cal's football staff just doesn't hold some players accountable, whether for meeting attendance, physical training, or whatever.

---

Yes - I personally moved him to different housing as at the time, He had a much different focus for football prep than his room mates. He was unique in his laser focus approach to be the best He could be. He got along with His teammates, it's just that He was more disciplined on and off the field. Flip side what was incredibly disappointing to several of us, who truly looked out for him/coached him/mentored him/put excellent NIL package etc was his impulsive nature to break his word - when deals had been re structured etc. Complex situation around his leaving - both sides had legitimate beefs. But an extremely good offer (better than OU offered) was agreed to with Cal, only to be broken literally w/in a few days. Ott did get his degree - impressive. And several factors nagged him including the medical staff misdiagnosis of a high ankle grade 3 sprain (came back too early), AT essentially not being retained (not fired but offered unacceptable terms) and then his frustration with promises of an improved Oline over the past couple of seasons that did not materialize.
Bottom line - it's in the rear view mirror- it's all about the current Cal football team/players/coaches/staff and the focus, to kick butt and excel this season. Best of luck to Ott and may He do well and get drafted high.

---

i see from what has been said about Ott that there were at least two points of friction.

1. Ott's lazer focus on football. and his dissatisfaction with other players for whom this was not true. To me this has usually not been the situation with so many Cal players since at Cal the student athlete must be BOTH a student and an athlete. Of course at Oklahoma the reverse is true. So of course Ott would find the atmosphere would be more inviting to him at Oklahoma that it would at Cal.

2. i was very troubled by the comments that Ott was perceived as having an impulsive nature to break his word 'AFTER' an extremely good offer (better than OU offer) was 'agreed to' with Cal.

Many young kids are impulsive. I would guess that many young athletes might be impulsive. But a young kid (in his early 20's?) who will be involved in many contract negotiations in football and outside football must learn that being impulsive and after agreeing to an extremely good (better than OU offered) can come back to haunt him. [Nothing was said about whether other parties - parents, agents, etc.- were involved in the discussions.]

---

1. It is not going to come back to haunt him.
2. Adults of all ages come to agreements all the time only to get an offer they perceive as better before things are finalized and switch. Hell, companies do that all the time.

3. I suspect better offer in this case means more money. That is only one part of the offer. Most people would take an unpaid internship at Google over a paid position as fry cook at McDonalds. Even if we offered more money than OU, OU has more to offer outside of money.

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1. You know this how? Ott is no longer the big fish in a relatively small pond. Oklahoma will show him a lot less loyalty (and offer far fewer accommodations) than Cal did/would have. Oklahoma will not have a Heisman campaign for Ott or feature him on billboards. The rb room at Oklahoma is talented and he very likely will not be featured the way he will at Cal. At at the end of the day, the teams are likely to have very similar records.

2. Things were "finalized" in the sense that Cal and Ott signed the upgraded NIL deal.

3. I understand you're using extreme options (McDonalds vs. Google) to make a point. And there is certainly some truth in what you wrote in terms of $$ not being the most important factor in many cases, including Ott's. But the reality is that in employment situations (and in life) you often make commitments that are both legal and moral. An attorney can switch jobs at any time, but typically would not do so in the middle of a trial or large transaction. And, as you know, perhaps the biggest red flag on a resume is a person who has switched jobs constantly, even if the trajectory is upward. And you certainly would be concerned about someone who has displayed diva behavior, left under bad circumstances and/or has a history of burning bridges. Ott has a long history of this type of behavior/decision making, dating back to his time as a high school recruit. No doubt the NFL will be aware of that when evaluating him.

At the end of the day, Ott leaving could very well be a blessing in disguise (putting aside the optics and emotion). Cal was able to use the NIL money in areas where it was more needed IMO and I expect some combination of the 3 replacement running backs to be just fine. Cal certainly has less eggs in one basket.

BearGoggles said:

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BearlyCareAnymore said:

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GivemTheAxe said:

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4thGenCal said:

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HearstMining said:

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For football players at Cal, football is the most important thing, but it's part of a whole. At Oklahoma, football is the ONLY thing. I can accept that because that's been Cal's sports culture as long as I can remember - juggling academics with athletics. So the challenge is to recruit and coach players who can excel in that environment. The lousy results over the last fifteen years speak for themselves.

I thought Ott's comment was careful, focused on the players and not the coaching staff. In particular, he did not dump on the school. What the comment does indicate is that Cal's football staff just doesn't hold some players accountable, whether for meeting attendance, physical training, or whatever.

---

Yes - I personally moved him to different housing as at the time, He had a much different focus for football prep than his room mates. He was unique in his laser focus approach to be the best He could be. He got along with His teammates, it's just that He was more disciplined on and off the field. Flip side what was incredibly disappointing to several of us, who truly looked out for him/coached him/mentored him/put excellent NIL package etc was his impulsive nature to break his word - when deals had been re structured etc. Complex situation around his leaving - both sides had legitimate beefs. But an extremely good offer (better than OU offered) was agreed to with Cal, only to be broken literally w/in a few days. Ott did get his degree - impressive. And several factors nagged him including the medical staff misdiagnosis of a high ankle grade 3 sprain (came back too early), AT essentially not being retained (not fired but offered unacceptable terms) and then his frustration with promises of an improved Oline over the past couple of seasons that did not materialize.
Bottom line - it's in the rear view mirror- it's all about the current Cal football team/players/coaches/staff and the focus, to kick butt and excel this season. Best of luck to Ott and may He do well and get drafted high.

---

i see from what has been said about Ott that there were at least two points of friction.

1. Ott's lazer focus on football. and his dissatisfaction with other players for whom this was not true. To me this has usually not been the situation with so many Cal players since at Cal the student athlete must be BOTH a student and an athlete. Of course at Oklahoma the reverse is true. So of course Ott would find the atmosphere would be more inviting to him at Oklahoma that it would at Cal.

2. i was very troubled by the comments that Ott was perceived as having an impulsive nature to break his word 'AFTER' an extremely good offer (better than OU offer) was 'agreed to' with Cal.

Many young kids are impulsive. I would guess that many young athletes might be impulsive. But a young kid (in his early 20's?) who will be involved in many contract negotiations in football and outside football must learn that being impulsive and after agreeing to an extremely good (better than OU offered) can come back to haunt him. [Nothing was said about whether other parties - parents, agents, etc.- were involved in the discussions.]

---

1. It is not going to come back to haunt him.
2. Adults of all ages come to agreements all the time only to get an offer they perceive as better before things are finalized and switch. Hell, companies do that all the time.

3. I suspect better offer in this case means more money. That is only one part of the offer. Most people would take an unpaid internship at Google over a paid position as fry cook at McDonalds. Even if we offered more money than OU, OU has more to offer outside of money.

---

1. You know this how? Ott is no longer the big fish in a relatively small pond. Oklahoma will show him a lot less loyalty (and offer far fewer accommodations) than Cal did/would have. Oklahoma will not have a Heisman campaign for Ott or feature him on billboards. The rb room at Oklahoma is talented and he very likely will not be featured the way he will at Cal. At at the end of the day, the teams are likely to have very similar records.

2. Things were "finalized" in the sense that Cal and Ott signed the upgraded NIL deal.

3. I understand you're using extreme options (McDonalds vs. Google) to make a point. And there is certainly some truth in what you wrote in terms of $$ not being the most important factor in many cases, including Ott's. But the reality is that in employment situations (and in life) you often make commitments that are both legal and moral. An attorney can switch jobs at any time, but typically would not do so in the middle of a trial or large transaction. And, as you know, perhaps the biggest red flag on a resume is a person who has switched jobs constantly, even if the trajectory is upward. And you certainly would be concerned about someone who has displayed diva behavior, left under bad circumstances and/or has a history of burning bridges. Ott has a long history of this type of behavior/decision making, dating back to his time as a high school recruit. No doubt the NFL will be aware of that when evaluating him.

At the end of the day, Ott leaving could very well be a blessing in disguise (putting aside the optics and emotion). Cal was able to use the NIL money in areas where it was more needed IMO and I expect some combination of the 3 replacement running backs to be just fine. Cal certainly has less eggs in one basket.

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To clarify, when I said it wouldn't come back to haunt him, I meant it in the way I understood OP to be saying which was that making an impulsive decision and changing his mind after agreeing to a deal with Cal would hurt him in future negotiations. It won't. He played by the rules of the game and everyone who he may in the future negotiate with 100% understands that and no NFL team is going to ding him because he did what many if not a majority of guys do. Both "legally" and ethically under the way things are done today, he conformed to the rules which you guys all know extremely well when a top QB prospect signs an LOI committing to Oregon and an NIL deal, goes to their spring practice, and then uses the transfer system to come to Cal, but you suddenly forget entirely when you are butt hurt because a player leaves Cal.

To be clear, when I said it wouldn't come back to haunt him, I did not mean that he will end up better off at OU. Though I think he will, that is a future I can't predict. But if any of you really think any one is going to hold this against him in a future negotiation, you are just plain wrong.

In terms of deals being "finalized" NIL deals are deals that apply when you play on the team. They are by definition not commitments to play for that team. A player playing for a specific team is a deal when the final transfer portal is closed. Again he did what many players do, what by rule is allowed and what you guys are ecstatic that Sagapolutele did. So no, his "deal" wasn't finalized.

He is not a lawyer leaving a job mid trial. He left in the offseason during the transfer portal window. Exactly the proscribed time when they allow players to leave exactly because it is the least inconvenient time for players to leave. If he had rolled up in game five of the season and said "I quit", that would be like a lawyer leaving midtrial and I would roast him for that. He left at the time players who want to change teams leave.

You've got to be kidding painting him with the "its a red flag when a guy switches jobs constantly" brush. He played for us for 3 years. He is literally transferring only one time in his career which is a miracle under the current system. Frankly, he showed way more loyalty than was good for him in not leaving after either of his first two seasons. There is no way that the NFL is looking at his history and painting him as a diva among the group of people that they deal with every day.

And what kind of red flag would you think it was for a law firm who lost half their lawyers in a couple of months? Would you go to work there? Does it mean anything that he didn't exactly walk out alone.

We'll see if we are "just fine". It is definitely one of the possibilities out there, though I see no evidence to back up that argument. Of course if "just fine" means we repeat our 2-6 record in conference, that isn't too hard a bar to clear. I guess it depends on what you think "just fine" means.

I will say this to 4thGen - I view your commentary as different. You have a personal relationship and you feel that you have done things for the guy personally that you hoped would bring more loyalty and you are disappointed at the way things went down given that history. That is entirely different. I'm not saying you are right (or wrong) because I don't know the ins and outs, but your feelings sound understandable. And I think your expression of those feelings has been in a reasonable manner.


But I'm sorry, the rest of you just don't like the system and the next one of you who criticizes players who transfer to Cal under the same circumstances that you criticize players for transferring out of Cal will be the absolute first.

BearlyCareAnymore said:

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BearGoggles said:

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BearlyCareAnymore said:

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GivemTheAxe said:

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4thGenCal said:

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HearstMining said:

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For football players at Cal, football is the most important thing, but it's part of a whole. At Oklahoma, football is the ONLY thing. I can accept that because that's been Cal's sports culture as long as I can remember - juggling academics with athletics. So the challenge is to recruit and coach players who can excel in that environment. The lousy results over the last fifteen years speak for themselves.

I thought Ott's comment was careful, focused on the players and not the coaching staff. In particular, he did not dump on the school. What the comment does indicate is that Cal's football staff just doesn't hold some players accountable, whether for meeting attendance, physical training, or whatever.

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Yes - I personally moved him to different housing as at the time, He had a much different focus for football prep than his room mates. He was unique in his laser focus approach to be the best He could be. He got along with His teammates, it's just that He was more disciplined on and off the field. Flip side what was incredibly disappointing to several of us, who truly looked out for him/coached him/mentored him/put excellent NIL package etc was his impulsive nature to break his word - when deals had been re structured etc. Complex situation around his leaving - both sides had legitimate beefs. But an extremely good offer (better than OU offered) was agreed to with Cal, only to be broken literally w/in a few days. Ott did get his degree - impressive. And several factors nagged him including the medical staff misdiagnosis of a high ankle grade 3 sprain (came back too early), AT essentially not being retained (not fired but offered unacceptable terms) and then his frustration with promises of an improved Oline over the past couple of seasons that did not materialize.
Bottom line - it's in the rear view mirror- it's all about the current Cal football team/players/coaches/staff and the focus, to kick butt and excel this season. Best of luck to Ott and may He do well and get drafted high.

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i see from what has been said about Ott that there were at least two points of friction.

1. Ott's lazer focus on football. and his dissatisfaction with other players for whom this was not true. To me this has usually not been the situation with so many Cal players since at Cal the student athlete must be BOTH a student and an athlete. Of course at Oklahoma the reverse is true. So of course Ott would find the atmosphere would be more inviting to him at Oklahoma that it would at Cal.

2. i was very troubled by the comments that Ott was perceived as having an impulsive nature to break his word 'AFTER' an extremely good offer (better than OU offer) was 'agreed to' with Cal.

Many young kids are impulsive. I would guess that many young athletes might be impulsive. But a young kid (in his early 20's?) who will be involved in many contract negotiations in football and outside football must learn that being impulsive and after agreeing to an extremely good (better than OU offered) can come back to haunt him. [Nothing was said about whether other parties - parents, agents, etc.- were involved in the discussions.]

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1. It is not going to come back to haunt him.
2. Adults of all ages come to agreements all the time only to get an offer they perceive as better before things are finalized and switch. Hell, companies do that all the time.

3. I suspect better offer in this case means more money. That is only one part of the offer. Most people would take an unpaid internship at Google over a paid position as fry cook at McDonalds. Even if we offered more money than OU, OU has more to offer outside of money.

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1. You know this how? Ott is no longer the big fish in a relatively small pond. Oklahoma will show him a lot less loyalty (and offer far fewer accommodations) than Cal did/would have. Oklahoma will not have a Heisman campaign for Ott or feature him on billboards. The rb room at Oklahoma is talented and he very likely will not be featured the way he will at Cal. At at the end of the day, the teams are likely to have very similar records.

2. Things were "finalized" in the sense that Cal and Ott signed the upgraded NIL deal.

3. I understand you're using extreme options (McDonalds vs. Google) to make a point. And there is certainly some truth in what you wrote in terms of $$ not being the most important factor in many cases, including Ott's. But the reality is that in employment situations (and in life) you often make commitments that are both legal and moral. An attorney can switch jobs at any time, but typically would not do so in the middle of a trial or large transaction. And, as you know, perhaps the biggest red flag on a resume is a person who has switched jobs constantly, even if the trajectory is upward. And you certainly would be concerned about someone who has displayed diva behavior, left under bad circumstances and/or has a history of burning bridges. Ott has a long history of this type of behavior/decision making, dating back to his time as a high school recruit. No doubt the NFL will be aware of that when evaluating him.

At the end of the day, Ott leaving could very well be a blessing in disguise (putting aside the optics and emotion). Cal was able to use the NIL money in areas where it was more needed IMO and I expect some combination of the 3 replacement running backs to be just fine. Cal certainly has less eggs in one basket.

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To clarify, when I said it wouldn't come back to haunt him, I meant it in the way I understood OP to be saying which was that making an impulsive decision and changing his mind after agreeing to a deal with Cal would hurt him in future negotiations. It won't. He played by the rules of the game and everyone who he may in the future negotiate with 100% understands that and no NFL team is going to ding him because he did what many if not a majority of guys do. Both "legally" and ethically under the way things are done today, he conformed to the rules which you guys all know extremely well when a top QB prospect signs an LOI committing to Oregon and an NIL deal, goes to their spring practice, and then uses the transfer system to come to Cal, but you suddenly forget entirely when you are butt hurt because a player leaves Cal.

To be clear, when I said it wouldn't come back to haunt him, I did not mean that he will end up better off at OU. Though I think he will, that is a future I can't predict. But if any of you really think any one is going to hold this against him in a future negotiation, you are just plain wrong.

In terms of deals being "finalized" NIL deals are deals that apply when you play on the team. They are by definition not commitments to play for that team. A player playing for a specific team is a deal when the final transfer portal is closed. Again he did what many players do, what by rule is allowed and what you guys are ecstatic that Sagapolutele did. So no, his "deal" wasn't finalized.

He is not a lawyer leaving a job mid trial. He left in the offseason during the transfer portal window. Exactly the proscribed time when they allow players to leave exactly because it is the least inconvenient time for players to leave. If he had rolled up in game five of the season and said "I quit", that would be like a lawyer leaving midtrial and I would roast him for that. He left at the time players who want to change teams leave.

You've got to be kidding painting him with the "its a red flag when a guy switches jobs constantly" brush. He played for us for 3 years. He is literally transferring only one time in his career which is a miracle under the current system. Frankly, he showed way more loyalty than was good for him in not leaving after either of his first two seasons. There is no way that the NFL is looking at his history and painting him as a diva among the group of people that they deal with every day.

And what kind of red flag would you think it was for a law firm who lost half their lawyers in a couple of months? Would you go to work there? Does it mean anything that he didn't exactly walk out alone.

We'll see if we are "just fine". It is definitely one of the possibilities out there, though I see no evidence to back up that argument. Of course if "just fine" means we repeat our 2-6 record in conference, that isn't too hard a bar to clear. I guess it depends on what you think "just fine" means.

I will say this to 4thGen - I view your commentary as different. You have a personal relationship and you feel that you have done things for the guy personally that you hoped would bring more loyalty and you are disappointed at the way things went down given that history. That is entirely different. I'm not saying you are right (or wrong) because I don't know the ins and outs, but your feelings sound understandable. And I think your expression of those feelings has been in a reasonable manner.


But I'm sorry, the rest of you just don't like the system and the next one of you who criticizes players who transfer to Cal under the same circumstances that you criticize players for transferring out of Cal will be the absolute first.

---

Is anyone on this board criticizing Endries who in every respect is a better (and harder to replace) player?

Much of your post is defending the morals of a guy who made and then broke commitments. The signed NIL was a mutual commitment and in virtually every sense, it was an agreement for Ott to stay. The fact that Ott could break the agreement without legal consequence (because of the "system" you describe) doesn't erase the fact that he made a commitment that when signed, the parties expected to be binding (in a moral sense). Will you be defending how Tosh left Cal next? After all, even though Tosh agreed to stay, he didn't do anything illegal or break an enforceable contract.

In terms of the evidence that Cal is potentially better off, there were posts on the insider board detailing (in a general sense) how the $$ was redeployed. All you need to do is look at the incoming transfer class. The OL and other positions (notably pass rushers and lbs) were upgraded using the $$ allocated to Ott. Any money ball assessment of football suggest teams (including Cal) should not overspend on rb - and Cal was saved from doing exactly that for non-football reasons. The coaching staff was upgraded and they brought in bigger players, including bigger rbs who are likely to produce far more than Ott did last year and more quality OL depth than I can remember on any other Cal team. Is any of this guaranteed to result in Cal winning more? No, of course not. But there is certainly "evidence" to support the possibility that Ott leaving was a blessing in disguise.

I'm fine if people are upset with Ott's comments. I'm not, as I think they probably accurately speak to issues that exist within the program and need to be fixed, and Cal usually needs some kind of public embarrassment to actually act on anything anyway so this might actually help in a roundabout way . . . but I get it if you are.

Totally agree with Bearly that there is no way an NFL team will hold any of this against him if he's up for a draft pick in the future. They will evaluate him on his talent and that's it. You have to do a lot of worse things (like actual criminal stuff) before the NFL will worry about your personality.

BearGoggles said:

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Big C said:

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We were overpaying Ott, justifiably, because of his "wow" factor (some dazzling runs) and his loyalty and (perceived) attitude.

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Agreed. And I supported it at the time for the off the field reasons. The crazy thing is that it appears Jet then left because he didn't get Ott's deal/overpayment and felt disrespected.

Losing Jet was the more shocking development because Ott had been reportedly on the fence and there was no inkling (to me and most others) that Jet might leave. But, again, notice that no one is criticizing Jet because he left under circumstances similar to Endries?

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Ott and Endries at least graduated.

My expectation when Ott left was that The Jet was going to relish a chance to be, undisputedly, "the man".

One factor for Thomas (and I think for Ott, too) is that he wasn't liking the new position coach, compared to Coach AT.

BearlyCareAnymore said:

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BearGoggles said:

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BearlyCareAnymore said:

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BearGoggles said:

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BearlyCareAnymore said:

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GivemTheAxe said:

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4thGenCal said:

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HearstMining said:

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For football players at Cal, football is the most important thing, but it's part of a whole. At Oklahoma, football is the ONLY thing. I can accept that because that's been Cal's sports culture as long as I can remember - juggling academics with athletics. So the challenge is to recruit and coach players who can excel in that environment. The lousy results over the last fifteen years speak for themselves.

I thought Ott's comment was careful, focused on the players and not the coaching staff. In particular, he did not dump on the school. What the comment does indicate is that Cal's football staff just doesn't hold some players accountable, whether for meeting attendance, physical training, or whatever.

---

Yes - I personally moved him to different housing as at the time, He had a much different focus for football prep than his room mates. He was unique in his laser focus approach to be the best He could be. He got along with His teammates, it's just that He was more disciplined on and off the field. Flip side what was incredibly disappointing to several of us, who truly looked out for him/coached him/mentored him/put excellent NIL package etc was his impulsive nature to break his word - when deals had been re structured etc. Complex situation around his leaving - both sides had legitimate beefs. But an extremely good offer (better than OU offered) was agreed to with Cal, only to be broken literally w/in a few days. Ott did get his degree - impressive. And several factors nagged him including the medical staff misdiagnosis of a high ankle grade 3 sprain (came back too early), AT essentially not being retained (not fired but offered unacceptable terms) and then his frustration with promises of an improved Oline over the past couple of seasons that did not materialize.
Bottom line - it's in the rear view mirror- it's all about the current Cal football team/players/coaches/staff and the focus, to kick butt and excel this season. Best of luck to Ott and may He do well and get drafted high.

---

i see from what has been said about Ott that there were at least two points of friction.

1. Ott's lazer focus on football. and his dissatisfaction with other players for whom this was not true. To me this has usually not been the situation with so many Cal players since at Cal the student athlete must be BOTH a student and an athlete. Of course at Oklahoma the reverse is true. So of course Ott would find the atmosphere would be more inviting to him at Oklahoma that it would at Cal.

2. i was very troubled by the comments that Ott was perceived as having an impulsive nature to break his word 'AFTER' an extremely good offer (better than OU offer) was 'agreed to' with Cal.

Many young kids are impulsive. I would guess that many young athletes might be impulsive. But a young kid (in his early 20's?) who will be involved in many contract negotiations in football and outside football must learn that being impulsive and after agreeing to an extremely good (better than OU offered) can come back to haunt him. [Nothing was said about whether other parties - parents, agents, etc.- were involved in the discussions.]

---

1. It is not going to come back to haunt him.
2. Adults of all ages come to agreements all the time only to get an offer they perceive as better before things are finalized and switch. Hell, companies do that all the time.

3. I suspect better offer in this case means more money. That is only one part of the offer. Most people would take an unpaid internship at Google over a paid position as fry cook at McDonalds. Even if we offered more money than OU, OU has more to offer outside of money.

---

1. You know this how? Ott is no longer the big fish in a relatively small pond. Oklahoma will show him a lot less loyalty (and offer far fewer accommodations) than Cal did/would have. Oklahoma will not have a Heisman campaign for Ott or feature him on billboards. The rb room at Oklahoma is talented and he very likely will not be featured the way he will at Cal. At at the end of the day, the teams are likely to have very similar records.

2. Things were "finalized" in the sense that Cal and Ott signed the upgraded NIL deal.

3. I understand you're using extreme options (McDonalds vs. Google) to make a point. And there is certainly some truth in what you wrote in terms of $$ not being the most important factor in many cases, including Ott's. But the reality is that in employment situations (and in life) you often make commitments that are both legal and moral. An attorney can switch jobs at any time, but typically would not do so in the middle of a trial or large transaction. And, as you know, perhaps the biggest red flag on a resume is a person who has switched jobs constantly, even if the trajectory is upward. And you certainly would be concerned about someone who has displayed diva behavior, left under bad circumstances and/or has a history of burning bridges. Ott has a long history of this type of behavior/decision making, dating back to his time as a high school recruit. No doubt the NFL will be aware of that when evaluating him.

At the end of the day, Ott leaving could very well be a blessing in disguise (putting aside the optics and emotion). Cal was able to use the NIL money in areas where it was more needed IMO and I expect some combination of the 3 replacement running backs to be just fine. Cal certainly has less eggs in one basket.

---

To clarify, when I said it wouldn't come back to haunt him, I meant it in the way I understood OP to be saying which was that making an impulsive decision and changing his mind after agreeing to a deal with Cal would hurt him in future negotiations. It won't. He played by the rules of the game and everyone who he may in the future negotiate with 100% understands that and no NFL team is going to ding him because he did what many if not a majority of guys do. Both "legally" and ethically under the way things are done today, he conformed to the rules which you guys all know extremely well when a top QB prospect signs an LOI committing to Oregon and an NIL deal, goes to their spring practice, and then uses the transfer system to come to Cal, but you suddenly forget entirely when you are butt hurt because a player leaves Cal.

To be clear, when I said it wouldn't come back to haunt him, I did not mean that he will end up better off at OU. Though I think he will, that is a future I can't predict. But if any of you really think any one is going to hold this against him in a future negotiation, you are just plain wrong.

In terms of deals being "finalized" NIL deals are deals that apply when you play on the team. They are by definition not commitments to play for that team. A player playing for a specific team is a deal when the final transfer portal is closed. Again he did what many players do, what by rule is allowed and what you guys are ecstatic that Sagapolutele did. So no, his "deal" wasn't finalized.

He is not a lawyer leaving a job mid trial. He left in the offseason during the transfer portal window. Exactly the proscribed time when they allow players to leave exactly because it is the least inconvenient time for players to leave. If he had rolled up in game five of the season and said "I quit", that would be like a lawyer leaving midtrial and I would roast him for that. He left at the time players who want to change teams leave.

You've got to be kidding painting him with the "its a red flag when a guy switches jobs constantly" brush. He played for us for 3 years. He is literally transferring only one time in his career which is a miracle under the current system. Frankly, he showed way more loyalty than was good for him in not leaving after either of his first two seasons. There is no way that the NFL is looking at his history and painting him as a diva among the group of people that they deal with every day.

And what kind of red flag would you think it was for a law firm who lost half their lawyers in a couple of months? Would you go to work there? Does it mean anything that he didn't exactly walk out alone.

We'll see if we are "just fine". It is definitely one of the possibilities out there, though I see no evidence to back up that argument. Of course if "just fine" means we repeat our 2-6 record in conference, that isn't too hard a bar to clear. I guess it depends on what you think "just fine" means.

I will say this to 4thGen - I view your commentary as different. You have a personal relationship and you feel that you have done things for the guy personally that you hoped would bring more loyalty and you are disappointed at the way things went down given that history. That is entirely different. I'm not saying you are right (or wrong) because I don't know the ins and outs, but your feelings sound understandable. And I think your expression of those feelings has been in a reasonable manner.


But I'm sorry, the rest of you just don't like the system and the next one of you who criticizes players who transfer to Cal under the same circumstances that you criticize players for transferring out of Cal will be the absolute first.

---

Is anyone on this board criticizing Endries who in every respect is a better (and harder to replace) player?

Much of your post is defending the morals of a guy who made and then broke commitments. The signed NIL was a mutual commitment and in virtually every sense, it was an agreement for Ott to stay. The fact that Ott could break the agreement without legal consequence (because of the "system" you describe) doesn't erase the fact that he made a commitment that when signed, the parties expected to be binding (in a moral sense). Will you be defending how Tosh left Cal next? After all, even though Tosh agreed to stay, he didn't do anything illegal or break an enforceable contract.

In terms of the evidence that Cal is potentially better off, there were posts on the insider board detailing (in a general sense) how the $$ was redeployed. All you need to do is look at the incoming transfer class. The OL and other positions (notably pass rushers and lbs) were upgraded using the $$ allocated to Ott. Any money ball assessment of football suggest teams (including Cal) should not overspend on rb - and Cal was saved from doing exactly that for non-football reasons. The coaching staff was upgraded and they brought in bigger players, including bigger rbs who are likely to produce far more than Ott did last year and more quality OL depth than I can remember on any other Cal team. Is any of this guaranteed to result in Cal winning more? No, of course not. But there is certainly "evidence" to support the possibility that Ott leaving was a blessing in disguise.

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I have no problem with Tosh leaving for what he decided was a better job. Tosh was an asshat for deciding to leave, not telling his current employer he was leaving and instead going on a recruiting visit where he was supposed to represent Cal, and then doubling back after Tedford left and telling the recruit not to sign and to go to Washington. Had Ott stayed on a few days, knowing he was going to leave, and used the time to run around the locker room recruiting fellow players to leave for Oklahoma, I'd roast him. You keep making false comparisons. Ott transferred at the appropriate time to transfer and he did nothing untoward to hurt the program. All he did was decide he was better off at Oklahoma.

I would think a lot more of your moral argument if you applied them evenly. Sagapolutele literally signed an LOI. That is a literal commitment to play football at Oregon. Frankly, it has always been a binding legal commitment to play for that school for at least a year until a couple years ago. He did so after having committed to Cal and then flipping his commitment on signing day which left us in the lurch since there was no time to recruit someone else. He enrolled at Oregon. He practiced at Oregon. Then he (in my opinion wisely under the circumstances) used the transfer portal to leave. As for Ott, NIL agreements are not now and never have been a binding commitment to play for a school and guys break them all of the time. And, in fact, coaches have been known to sign legal contract extensions only to quit for a better job within weeks, sometimes days. There is no way you can argue that Ott broke a stronger commitment than Sagapolutele did. And yet crickets from you on the ethics of Sagapolutele.

And before anyone takes this as me criticizing Sagapolutele, I absolutely am not. These are the rules. I didn't think he screwed us when he flipped. I didn't think he screwed Oregon when he transferred. He is making the most important decision of his life so far, and it was a little messy, but he did what he thought was best for him. He did it by the written rules. He did it by the unwritten rules of 2025 which you all seem to understand when we are talking about Sagapolutele. But when it is Ott, you somehow have returned to the quaint times of 1985 and apply moral rules of days gone by instead of the ones of today. I think it is pretty clear that it is just a double standard applied to guys who leave vs. guys who come. And, frankly, it is embarrassing that some of you are still doing this when the rest of the world has moved on and whether they are happy with the new system, understands the ethics of individual players making decisions in this marketplace.

As for whatever was posted on the insider board, if you want to argue that the money was better spent elsewhere, that might be true. What I was getting at is our recruiting rankings this year are terrible and there is absolutely no good argument that overall we replaced the talent that we lost and specific to RB, no independent source thinks we came out even at RB. Overall, the rankings from independent sources are just not backing up the idea that we are "just fine". Yes, we could be because rankings miss, but could be fine is not evidence for are fine.

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The last paragraph mirrors my thinking mostly. The metrics most folks use that follow college ball do not favor Cal. Many of the metrics used consider these things strongly. Program history (HC), returning starters, returning proven production, recruiting and coordinators.

Cal has poor program history. The HC has yet to post even a .500 conference record and the last time the program did was 2009. The longest streak of less than .500 conference record in all of P4.

Cal is returning just 6 starters. Uluave, Keannaina, McCulloch, Grizell, Morrow and Vatikani. That is one of the lowest numbers of any P4 program in the country.

Returning proven productivity.Cal has lost a 3000 yd qb who started 19 games for Cal. They lost their leading rushers. Ott and Thomas. Ott had an poor season and had an injury. But he is good when healthy and has an OL and OC with a pulse. Thomas is an explosive RB that had most of Cals best rushing plays. The top receivers are now elsewhere. Endries at Texas and Hunter at Nebraska. Grizzell the most productive of the returnees. DeJesus looks like he will help. Grayes was expected to be a big contributor but got hurt. Hamper was productive at FCS Idaho. Will that translate?

Leading interceptor Nohl Williams is in the NFL. Leading tackler Teddye Buchanan is as well. :Leading sacker Xavier Carlton is an UDFA. The entire starting DB room plus the top reserve are gone.

The recruiting rankings while imperfect do not reflect a program loaded with high end talent. They are routinely among the worst in HS recruiting rankings and this years transfer class is not highly rated.

Coordinators are important. They scheme the offense and defense. Harsin is the new OC. He is a well known guy. He's had a lot of success but has been out of the game the past 2 seasons and when we last saw him at Auburn the offense was below average. Peter Sirmon is gone at DC. The listed DCs are So'oto and Terrence Brown. Few think they will actually call the defense. Most believe Wilcox will be the primary defensive play caller. The defense was good last year. 2nd in the ACC. 4 of the starters got drafted. The defense is being rebuilt.

So the team will still be lead by a HC with a poor record against peer programs. Have among the fewest returning starters, and most of the top production now gone to be replaced by players that the recruiting services do not believe are as good as those that departed. The level of change is perhaps not unprecedented but it is very high.

The schedule is perhaps the one thing that gives Cal a shot at a breakthrough season. It is the lightest in many years. Perhaps decades.

This team is perhaps the least known one in many seasons. A ton of roster and staff turnover. The practices were closed the last half of Spring and remain closed now. What Greg is able to relay is good but any real substantive stuff the staff does not want publicly disclosed.

I want to believe that the team will be pretty good. But looking at it without blue and gold glasses it looks like another 2nd division finish and maybe a minor bowl. Hope to be wrong.