BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

In fact, when 88 has talked about paving the Bay Area over with apartment complexes to solve the housing crunch my response has been, no. We are all full. We like it the way it is. The solution is for the market to do its job and for people to move to one of the many wonderful places they can go for a much lower price.

---

sycasey said:

---

DoubtfulBear said:

---

sycasey said:

---

DoubtfulBear said:

---

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

DoubtfulBear said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Part of the reason the Bay Area is so expensive is because people want to live there. Yeah it has problems but if they weren't outweighed by the positives then the housing wouldn't cost so much.

---

A lot of people don't want to live in the Bay Area, they just have no choice due to their jobs. The moment remote work was a possibility, plenty left for far better places

---

1. Yeah, and now they are moving back.
2. People leave the Bay Area overwhelmingly for one reason. The housing is tremendously expensive. The fact that it takes Bay Area prices getting that expensive to even move the needle in pushing people out demonstrates how desirable it is. The "people hate the Bay Area so much they are moving out"argument is so unbelievably stupid. It is basic economics 1 shyte. If you have a choice of a Hershey bar for $1 or your favorite gourmet chocolate for $2, you pay the $2. Maybe you pay the $3. Maybe even $5. You don't pay $20. That doesn't mean the gourmet chocolate is suddenly worse than hersheys. That is basically the dumbass conclusion we are making here. The free market achieves equilibrium. So there is a constant cycle of Bay Area housing prices increasing until some people say "I love the Bay Area, but Bay Area at $2m is too high a premium when I can get Denver for $1m". That is always the trend. Then people move out and prices normalize until people start moving back. Which is happening now. That is actually how housing markets work everywhere.


3. The Bay Area is awesome. If you hate it so much GTFO, rather than insulting a large percentage of people on this board that have chosen to make it their home.

---

This is exactly the type of entitled, my **** doesn't smell attitude that I hate the most about the residents in the Bay Area. There are plenty of amazing, beautiful, affordable places in the country and people like you convince yourself that "they hate us because they ain't us" and continue to be stuck in traffic for hours, overpaying for ****ty food and tiny $1M mini-homes built in 1970.

You're chocolate analogy is hilarious. NYC is like a gourmet chocolate that is compared to Hersheys. Bay Area is like Ghirardelli chocolate pretending like it's on the same level as Lderach and charge premium prices when it's barely better than mass produced chocolate.

SF lovers have used the exact same argument as you, that the only problem was that things were too expensive. Well now 5 years after COVID started, rent has come down massively in downtown SF, but almost the entire formerly Westfield mall is shuttered and the entire walk from Market St. to Union Square is a ghost town of boarded up stores and For Lease signs

---

Once again: scoreboard. Even if you don't like living in the Bay Area, enough people do that it remains expensive. Yes, even with the recent drop in SF rents it is still expensive. Don't conflate your personal opinions with the general one.

---

I never said I speak for all Americans, but the sentiments I have are certainly shared by many people outside of just myself. The Bay Area has far deeper issues than just things are expensive because demand is greater than supply and people aren't moving out just because they can't afford it anymore.

---

As I have been saying, yes it has issues but if they weren't outweighed by the positives (for most people) the rent would be a lot cheaper.

---

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

DoubtfulBear said:

---

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

DoubtfulBear said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Part of the reason the Bay Area is so expensive is because people want to live there. Yeah it has problems but if they weren't outweighed by the positives then the housing wouldn't cost so much.

---

A lot of people don't want to live in the Bay Area, they just have no choice due to their jobs. The moment remote work was a possibility, plenty left for far better places

---

1. Yeah, and now they are moving back.
2. People leave the Bay Area overwhelmingly for one reason. The housing is tremendously expensive. The fact that it takes Bay Area prices getting that expensive to even move the needle in pushing people out demonstrates how desirable it is. The "people hate the Bay Area so much they are moving out"argument is so unbelievably stupid. It is basic economics 1 shyte. If you have a choice of a Hershey bar for $1 or your favorite gourmet chocolate for $2, you pay the $2. Maybe you pay the $3. Maybe even $5. You don't pay $20. That doesn't mean the gourmet chocolate is suddenly worse than hersheys. That is basically the dumbass conclusion we are making here. The free market achieves equilibrium. So there is a constant cycle of Bay Area housing prices increasing until some people say "I love the Bay Area, but Bay Area at $2m is too high a premium when I can get Denver for $1m". That is always the trend. Then people move out and prices normalize until people start moving back. Which is happening now. That is actually how housing markets work everywhere.


3. The Bay Area is awesome. If you hate it so much GTFO, rather than insulting a large percentage of people on this board that have chosen to make it their home.

---

This is exactly the type of entitled, my **** doesn't smell attitude that I hate the most about the residents in the Bay Area. There are plenty of amazing, beautiful, affordable places in the country and people like you convince yourself that "they hate us because they ain't us" and continue to be stuck in traffic for hours, overpaying for ****ty food and tiny $1M mini-homes built in 1970.

Your chocolate analogy is hilarious. NYC is like a gourmet chocolate that is compared to Hersheys. Bay Area is like Ghirardelli chocolate pretending like it's on the same level as Lderach and charge premium prices when it's barely better than mass produced chocolate.

SF lovers have used the exact same argument as you, that the only problem was that things were too expensive. Well now 5 years after COVID started, rent has come down massively in downtown SF, but almost the entire formerly Westfield mall is shuttered and the entire walk from Market St. to Union Square is a ghost town of boarded up stores and For Lease signs

---

I'm sure there are people who live here because that is where their job is. But you know what? WHY DO YOU THINK THE JOBS ARE HERE? Is it the business friendly climate? Low cost of doing business? Low cost of property? The tax savings? Businesses locate here in spite of a lot of negatives on the bottom line because this is where their investment dollars are and where the skilled workers are because both those groups find the place desirable.

---

DoubtfulBear said:

---

sycasey said:

---

DoubtfulBear said:

---

sycasey said:

---

DoubtfulBear said:

---

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

DoubtfulBear said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Part of the reason the Bay Area is so expensive is because people want to live there. Yeah it has problems but if they weren't outweighed by the positives then the housing wouldn't cost so much.

---

A lot of people don't want to live in the Bay Area, they just have no choice due to their jobs. The moment remote work was a possibility, plenty left for far better places

---

1. Yeah, and now they are moving back.
2. People leave the Bay Area overwhelmingly for one reason. The housing is tremendously expensive. The fact that it takes Bay Area prices getting that expensive to even move the needle in pushing people out demonstrates how desirable it is. The "people hate the Bay Area so much they are moving out"argument is so unbelievably stupid. It is basic economics 1 shyte. If you have a choice of a Hershey bar for $1 or your favorite gourmet chocolate for $2, you pay the $2. Maybe you pay the $3. Maybe even $5. You don't pay $20. That doesn't mean the gourmet chocolate is suddenly worse than hersheys. That is basically the dumbass conclusion we are making here. The free market achieves equilibrium. So there is a constant cycle of Bay Area housing prices increasing until some people say "I love the Bay Area, but Bay Area at $2m is too high a premium when I can get Denver for $1m". That is always the trend. Then people move out and prices normalize until people start moving back. Which is happening now. That is actually how housing markets work everywhere.


3. The Bay Area is awesome. If you hate it so much GTFO, rather than insulting a large percentage of people on this board that have chosen to make it their home.

---

This is exactly the type of entitled, my **** doesn't smell attitude that I hate the most about the residents in the Bay Area. There are plenty of amazing, beautiful, affordable places in the country and people like you convince yourself that "they hate us because they ain't us" and continue to be stuck in traffic for hours, overpaying for ****ty food and tiny $1M mini-homes built in 1970.

You're chocolate analogy is hilarious. NYC is like a gourmet chocolate that is compared to Hersheys. Bay Area is like Ghirardelli chocolate pretending like it's on the same level as Lderach and charge premium prices when it's barely better than mass produced chocolate.

SF lovers have used the exact same argument as you, that the only problem was that things were too expensive. Well now 5 years after COVID started, rent has come down massively in downtown SF, but almost the entire formerly Westfield mall is shuttered and the entire walk from Market St. to Union Square is a ghost town of boarded up stores and For Lease signs

---

Once again: scoreboard. Even if you don't like living in the Bay Area, enough people do that it remains expensive. Yes, even with the recent drop in SF rents it is still expensive. Don't conflate your personal opinions with the general one.

---

I never said I speak for all Americans, but the sentiments I have are certainly shared by many people outside of just myself. The Bay Area has far deeper issues than just things are expensive because demand is greater than supply and people aren't moving out just because they can't afford it anymore.

---

As I have been saying, yes it has issues but if they weren't outweighed by the positives (for most people) the rent would be a lot cheaper.

---

Yes and the #1 positive is the career opportunities. Considering now desolate downtown SF is now, I shudder to think how it would look like if it went through a Rust Belt type decline. Definitely would make Detroit seem like a bustling city

---

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

sycasey said:

---

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

In fact, when 88 has talked about paving the Bay Area over with apartment complexes to solve the housing crunch my response has been, no. We are all full. We like it the way it is. The solution is for the market to do its job and for people to move to one of the many wonderful places they can go for a much lower price.

---

And I disagree somewhat on this. I think the Bay Area does have a problem with housing becoming too expensive and there should be steps taken to improve that situation. "Keep it the way it is" isn't a good long-term solution IMO; you need a region to be dynamic and a place people can actually move into, not just squat in expensive houses forever.

That said, even if those steps were taken it would still be a pretty expensive place to live. You can mitigate the problem but it's still about supply and demand and the demand is high.

---

The problem is sycasey that the amount of housing it would take to make a dent is huge and would radically alter the character of the place. NIMBYism is real, but it isn't the cause.

SF along with cities like LA and Seattle and NY are on the leading edge of an issue that other cities are following. There is a cycle of building up a city, running out of space, moving further and further out until there is no more place to move. In the Bay Area we had the cycle where places Walnut Creek exploded, than Petaluma, Santa Rosa, Fairfield, Vacaville, etc. You can't retroactively go into residential neighborhoods and tear down single family houses and build apartment complexes. And if you build them where there is room further afield, you need to account for traffic and basically no public transportation. The Bay Area is particularly problematic because the bay and hills make the traffic corridors tight. Even with the expansion we had, 101 and 80 in the Northbay and 80 and 24 in the east bay became a nightmare as growth outstripped freeway expansion. In the North Bay, there was a time that they would flush sewage down the Russian River because the treatment plants were overwhelmed.

Yes, building projects get postponed or blocked by local concerns, sometimes wrongly. But we are talking about adding hundreds of units in an area of several million people. If all the projects that are blocked got built it wouldn't put a dent in the market. The Bay Area has an additional problem of having acute wealth disparity between tech and other affluent industries and everyone else. There is a lot of money to drive up prices and gentrify neighborhoods. I've lived here long enough to see a lot of neighborhoods change significantly. SOMA used to be no go. Same with a lot of neighborhoods in Oakland like Temescal. When I was at Cal, everything west of Shattuck was awful.

Cities that used to be very pro-building and would point to cities in California saying liberal NIMBYism is the problem are finding themselves running into the problems SF and LA had 20 years ago. They are running out of space, seeing prices go up, traffic clogging, and putting in strict building codes of their own. And some of that is exactly because of people leaving places like the Bay Area. 25 years ago, Californians were moving to Seattle in droves and now it is almost as expensive as the Bay.

The problem is that in the US we are used to having unlimited space and designed our cities around cars and suburbs. When cities get into the millions, it isn't feasible. I actually agree with 88 if I were building a city from scratch today. You need higher population density and localized services and transportation. But they aren't being built from scratch. I'm afraid those of us who live here are more than just an inconvenience you can wipe away. In Paris they tore up many of the neighborhoods in the 1800's to build huge boulevards. Unfortunately, we live in a democracy where tearing out neighborhoods and starting over is frowned upon.

So to me, the solution is to do it right in the places that aren't full, but we really aren't doing that.

---

Anarchistbear said:

---

Berkeley is a great and highly desirable place. Try buying there if you don't believe that. Oakland rolls up and down; Berkeley doesn't. It's a rare combination of great culture, great walking, great recreation, highly interesting people and beauty.

The complaints are boilerplate:
1) It's urban grit not some some suburban s$it hole like Walnut Creek
2 Politics, which is valid- weird obsessions with trivial things like gas stoves, recycling and Trump - none of it worth thinking about
3) Safety. Did you hear about the person who was shot on college ave? This is occasionally true but also suburban next door hysteria. Overall, a safe place

I can go see YoYo Ma, Cal football, a show at the Freight, hang out at Moe's and eat at Belotti while you poor suckers are playing pickleball or whatever it is you do

---

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

sycasey said:

---

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

In fact, when 88 has talked about paving the Bay Area over with apartment complexes to solve the housing crunch my response has been, no. We are all full. We like it the way it is. The solution is for the market to do its job and for people to move to one of the many wonderful places they can go for a much lower price.

---

And I disagree somewhat on this. I think the Bay Area does have a problem with housing becoming too expensive and there should be steps taken to improve that situation. "Keep it the way it is" isn't a good long-term solution IMO; you need a region to be dynamic and a place people can actually move into, not just squat in expensive houses forever.

That said, even if those steps were taken it would still be a pretty expensive place to live. You can mitigate the problem but it's still about supply and demand and the demand is high.

---

The problem is sycasey that the amount of housing it would take to make a dent is huge and would radically alter the character of the place. NIMBYism is real, but it isn't the cause.

SF along with cities like LA and Seattle and NY are on the leading edge of an issue that other cities are following. There is a cycle of building up a city, running out of space, moving further and further out until there is no more place to move. In the Bay Area we had the cycle where places Walnut Creek exploded, than Petaluma, Santa Rosa, Fairfield, Vacaville, etc. You can't retroactively go into residential neighborhoods and tear down single family houses and build apartment complexes.

.
.
.

So to me, the solution is to do it right in the places that aren't full, but we really aren't doing that.

---

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

DoubtfulBear said:

---

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

DoubtfulBear said:

---

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

DoubtfulBear said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Part of the reason the Bay Area is so expensive is because people want to live there. Yeah it has problems but if they weren't outweighed by the positives then the housing wouldn't cost so much.

---

A lot of people don't want to live in the Bay Area, they just have no choice due to their jobs. The moment remote work was a possibility, plenty left for far better places

---

1. Yeah, and now they are moving back.
2. People leave the Bay Area overwhelmingly for one reason. The housing is tremendously expensive. The fact that it takes Bay Area prices getting that expensive to even move the needle in pushing people out demonstrates how desirable it is. The "people hate the Bay Area so much they are moving out"argument is so unbelievably stupid. It is basic economics 1 shyte. If you have a choice of a Hershey bar for $1 or your favorite gourmet chocolate for $2, you pay the $2. Maybe you pay the $3. Maybe even $5. You don't pay $20. That doesn't mean the gourmet chocolate is suddenly worse than hersheys. That is basically the dumbass conclusion we are making here. The free market achieves equilibrium. So there is a constant cycle of Bay Area housing prices increasing until some people say "I love the Bay Area, but Bay Area at $2m is too high a premium when I can get Denver for $1m". That is always the trend. Then people move out and prices normalize until people start moving back. Which is happening now. That is actually how housing markets work everywhere.


3. The Bay Area is awesome. If you hate it so much GTFO, rather than insulting a large percentage of people on this board that have chosen to make it their home.

---

This is exactly the type of entitled, my **** doesn't smell attitude that I hate the most about the residents in the Bay Area. There are plenty of amazing, beautiful, affordable places in the country and people like you convince yourself that "they hate us because they ain't us" and continue to be stuck in traffic for hours, overpaying for ****ty food and tiny $1M mini-homes built in 1970.

Your chocolate analogy is hilarious. NYC is like a gourmet chocolate that is compared to Hersheys. Bay Area is like Ghirardelli chocolate pretending like it's on the same level as Lderach and charge premium prices when it's barely better than mass produced chocolate.

SF lovers have used the exact same argument as you, that the only problem was that things were too expensive. Well now 5 years after COVID started, rent has come down massively in downtown SF, but almost the entire formerly Westfield mall is shuttered and the entire walk from Market St. to Union Square is a ghost town of boarded up stores and For Lease signs

---

I'm sure there are people who live here because that is where their job is. But you know what? WHY DO YOU THINK THE JOBS ARE HERE? Is it the business friendly climate? Low cost of doing business? Low cost of property? The tax savings? Businesses locate here in spite of a lot of negatives on the bottom line because this is where their investment dollars are and where the skilled workers are because both those groups find the place desirable.

---

Businesses are here because of a legacy from a government research sponsored ecosystem that started to develop during the 1940s. But plenty of companies are already moving elsewhere for lower cost of doing business. And with our immigration policy coupled with China and other foreign countries cultivating homegrown, I won't be surprised that in 50 years, the Bay Area becomes as irrelevant for business as Hong Kong is for international trade.

---

I think something happened in Hong Kong in 1997 that might have slightly impacted its trajectory. If the Chinese communist government takes over SF, I MAY agree that SF will become irrelevant.

But again, take your hating elsewhere. If you hate it here and are too much of a coward to try your luck in one of the places you love, I feel sorry for you. And that seems to be your problem with the Bay Area. You feel trapped and you are the only one making it so. Go find your bliss and stop dumping on ours.

---

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

DoubtfulBear said:

---

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

DoubtfulBear said:

---

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

DoubtfulBear said:

---

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

DoubtfulBear said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Part of the reason the Bay Area is so expensive is because people want to live there. Yeah it has problems but if they weren't outweighed by the positives then the housing wouldn't cost so much.

---

A lot of people don't want to live in the Bay Area, they just have no choice due to their jobs. The moment remote work was a possibility, plenty left for far better places

---

1. Yeah, and now they are moving back.
2. People leave the Bay Area overwhelmingly for one reason. The housing is tremendously expensive. The fact that it takes Bay Area prices getting that expensive to even move the needle in pushing people out demonstrates how desirable it is. The "people hate the Bay Area so much they are moving out"argument is so unbelievably stupid. It is basic economics 1 shyte. If you have a choice of a Hershey bar for $1 or your favorite gourmet chocolate for $2, you pay the $2. Maybe you pay the $3. Maybe even $5. You don't pay $20. That doesn't mean the gourmet chocolate is suddenly worse than hersheys. That is basically the dumbass conclusion we are making here. The free market achieves equilibrium. So there is a constant cycle of Bay Area housing prices increasing until some people say "I love the Bay Area, but Bay Area at $2m is too high a premium when I can get Denver for $1m". That is always the trend. Then people move out and prices normalize until people start moving back. Which is happening now. That is actually how housing markets work everywhere.


3. The Bay Area is awesome. If you hate it so much GTFO, rather than insulting a large percentage of people on this board that have chosen to make it their home.

---

This is exactly the type of entitled, my **** doesn't smell attitude that I hate the most about the residents in the Bay Area. There are plenty of amazing, beautiful, affordable places in the country and people like you convince yourself that "they hate us because they ain't us" and continue to be stuck in traffic for hours, overpaying for ****ty food and tiny $1M mini-homes built in 1970.

Your chocolate analogy is hilarious. NYC is like a gourmet chocolate that is compared to Hersheys. Bay Area is like Ghirardelli chocolate pretending like it's on the same level as Lderach and charge premium prices when it's barely better than mass produced chocolate.

SF lovers have used the exact same argument as you, that the only problem was that things were too expensive. Well now 5 years after COVID started, rent has come down massively in downtown SF, but almost the entire formerly Westfield mall is shuttered and the entire walk from Market St. to Union Square is a ghost town of boarded up stores and For Lease signs

---

I'm sure there are people who live here because that is where their job is. But you know what? WHY DO YOU THINK THE JOBS ARE HERE? Is it the business friendly climate? Low cost of doing business? Low cost of property? The tax savings? Businesses locate here in spite of a lot of negatives on the bottom line because this is where their investment dollars are and where the skilled workers are because both those groups find the place desirable.

---

Businesses are here because of a legacy from a government research sponsored ecosystem that started to develop during the 1940s. But plenty of companies are already moving elsewhere for lower cost of doing business. And with our immigration policy coupled with China and other foreign countries cultivating homegrown, I won't be surprised that in 50 years, the Bay Area becomes as irrelevant for business as Hong Kong is for international trade.

---

I think something happened in Hong Kong in 1997 that might have slightly impacted its trajectory. If the Chinese communist government takes over SF, I MAY agree that SF will become irrelevant.

But again, take your hating elsewhere. If you hate it here and are too much of a coward to try your luck in one of the places you love, I feel sorry for you. And that seems to be your problem with the Bay Area. You feel trapped and you are the only one making it so. Go find your bliss and stop dumping on ours.

---

Singapore is part of the Chinese communist government? That is news to me.

I moved out a decade ago, best decision of my life.

---

What the hell are you talking about? Who mentioned Singapore?


Awesome for you. Hope you enjoy your life.

---

DoubtfulBear said:

---

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

DoubtfulBear said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Part of the reason the Bay Area is so expensive is because people want to live there. Yeah it has problems but if they weren't outweighed by the positives then the housing wouldn't cost so much.

---

A lot of people don't want to live in the Bay Area, they just have no choice due to their jobs. The moment remote work was a possibility, plenty left for far better places

---

1. Yeah, and now they are moving back.
2. People leave the Bay Area overwhelmingly for one reason. The housing is tremendously expensive. The fact that it takes Bay Area prices getting that expensive to even move the needle in pushing people out demonstrates how desirable it is. The "people hate the Bay Area so much they are moving out"argument is so unbelievably stupid. It is basic economics 1 shyte. If you have a choice of a Hershey bar for $1 or your favorite gourmet chocolate for $2, you pay the $2. Maybe you pay the $3. Maybe even $5. You don't pay $20. That doesn't mean the gourmet chocolate is suddenly worse than hersheys. That is basically the dumbass conclusion we are making here. The free market achieves equilibrium. So there is a constant cycle of Bay Area housing prices increasing until some people say "I love the Bay Area, but Bay Area at $2m is too high a premium when I can get Denver for $1m". That is always the trend. Then people move out and prices normalize until people start moving back. Which is happening now. That is actually how housing markets work everywhere.


3. The Bay Area is awesome. If you hate it so much GTFO, rather than insulting a large percentage of people on this board that have chosen to make it their home.

---

This is exactly the type of entitled, my **** doesn't smell attitude that I hate the most about the residents in the Bay Area. There are plenty of amazing, beautiful, affordable places in the country and people like you convince yourself that "they hate us because they ain't us" and continue to be stuck in traffic for hours, overpaying for ****ty food and tiny $1M mini-homes built in 1970.

Your chocolate analogy is hilarious. NYC is like a gourmet chocolate that is compared to Hersheys. Bay Area is like Ghirardelli chocolate pretending like it's on the same level as Lderach and charge premium prices when it's barely better than mass produced chocolate.

SF lovers have used the exact same argument as you, that the only problem was that things were too expensive. Well now 5 years after COVID started, rent has come down massively in downtown SF, but almost the entire formerly Westfield mall is shuttered and the entire walk from Market St. to Union Square is a ghost town of boarded up stores and For Lease signs

---

DoubtfulBear said:

---

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

DoubtfulBear said:

---

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

DoubtfulBear said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Part of the reason the Bay Area is so expensive is because people want to live there. Yeah it has problems but if they weren't outweighed by the positives then the housing wouldn't cost so much.

---

A lot of people don't want to live in the Bay Area, they just have no choice due to their jobs. The moment remote work was a possibility, plenty left for far better places

---

1. Yeah, and now they are moving back.
2. People leave the Bay Area overwhelmingly for one reason. The housing is tremendously expensive. The fact that it takes Bay Area prices getting that expensive to even move the needle in pushing people out demonstrates how desirable it is. The "people hate the Bay Area so much they are moving out"argument is so unbelievably stupid. It is basic economics 1 shyte. If you have a choice of a Hershey bar for $1 or your favorite gourmet chocolate for $2, you pay the $2. Maybe you pay the $3. Maybe even $5. You don't pay $20. That doesn't mean the gourmet chocolate is suddenly worse than hersheys. That is basically the dumbass conclusion we are making here. The free market achieves equilibrium. So there is a constant cycle of Bay Area housing prices increasing until some people say "I love the Bay Area, but Bay Area at $2m is too high a premium when I can get Denver for $1m". That is always the trend. Then people move out and prices normalize until people start moving back. Which is happening now. That is actually how housing markets work everywhere.


3. The Bay Area is awesome. If you hate it so much GTFO, rather than insulting a large percentage of people on this board that have chosen to make it their home.

---

This is exactly the type of entitled, my **** doesn't smell attitude that I hate the most about the residents in the Bay Area. There are plenty of amazing, beautiful, affordable places in the country and people like you convince yourself that "they hate us because they ain't us" and continue to be stuck in traffic for hours, overpaying for ****ty food and tiny $1M mini-homes built in 1970.

Your chocolate analogy is hilarious. NYC is like a gourmet chocolate that is compared to Hersheys. Bay Area is like Ghirardelli chocolate pretending like it's on the same level as Lderach and charge premium prices when it's barely better than mass produced chocolate.

SF lovers have used the exact same argument as you, that the only problem was that things were too expensive. Well now 5 years after COVID started, rent has come down massively in downtown SF, but almost the entire formerly Westfield mall is shuttered and the entire walk from Market St. to Union Square is a ghost town of boarded up stores and For Lease signs

---

I'm sure there are people who live here because that is where their job is. But you know what? WHY DO YOU THINK THE JOBS ARE HERE? Is it the business friendly climate? Low cost of doing business? Low cost of property? The tax savings? Businesses locate here in spite of a lot of negatives on the bottom line because this is where their investment dollars are and where the skilled workers are because both those groups find the place desirable.

---

Businesses are here because of a legacy from a government research sponsored ecosystem that started to develop during the 1940s. But plenty of companies are already moving elsewhere for lower cost of doing business. And with our immigration policy coupled with China and other foreign countries cultivating homegrown, I won't be surprised that in 50 years, the Bay Area becomes as irrelevant for business as Hong Kong is for international trade.

---

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

DoubtfulBear said:

---

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

DoubtfulBear said:

---

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

DoubtfulBear said:

---

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

DoubtfulBear said:

---

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

DoubtfulBear said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Part of the reason the Bay Area is so expensive is because people want to live there. Yeah it has problems but if they weren't outweighed by the positives then the housing wouldn't cost so much.

---

A lot of people don't want to live in the Bay Area, they just have no choice due to their jobs. The moment remote work was a possibility, plenty left for far better places

---

1. Yeah, and now they are moving back.
2. People leave the Bay Area overwhelmingly for one reason. The housing is tremendously expensive. The fact that it takes Bay Area prices getting that expensive to even move the needle in pushing people out demonstrates how desirable it is. The "people hate the Bay Area so much they are moving out"argument is so unbelievably stupid. It is basic economics 1 shyte. If you have a choice of a Hershey bar for $1 or your favorite gourmet chocolate for $2, you pay the $2. Maybe you pay the $3. Maybe even $5. You don't pay $20. That doesn't mean the gourmet chocolate is suddenly worse than hersheys. That is basically the dumbass conclusion we are making here. The free market achieves equilibrium. So there is a constant cycle of Bay Area housing prices increasing until some people say "I love the Bay Area, but Bay Area at $2m is too high a premium when I can get Denver for $1m". That is always the trend. Then people move out and prices normalize until people start moving back. Which is happening now. That is actually how housing markets work everywhere.


3. The Bay Area is awesome. If you hate it so much GTFO, rather than insulting a large percentage of people on this board that have chosen to make it their home.

---

This is exactly the type of entitled, my **** doesn't smell attitude that I hate the most about the residents in the Bay Area. There are plenty of amazing, beautiful, affordable places in the country and people like you convince yourself that "they hate us because they ain't us" and continue to be stuck in traffic for hours, overpaying for ****ty food and tiny $1M mini-homes built in 1970.

Your chocolate analogy is hilarious. NYC is like a gourmet chocolate that is compared to Hersheys. Bay Area is like Ghirardelli chocolate pretending like it's on the same level as Lderach and charge premium prices when it's barely better than mass produced chocolate.

SF lovers have used the exact same argument as you, that the only problem was that things were too expensive. Well now 5 years after COVID started, rent has come down massively in downtown SF, but almost the entire formerly Westfield mall is shuttered and the entire walk from Market St. to Union Square is a ghost town of boarded up stores and For Lease signs

---

I'm sure there are people who live here because that is where their job is. But you know what? WHY DO YOU THINK THE JOBS ARE HERE? Is it the business friendly climate? Low cost of doing business? Low cost of property? The tax savings? Businesses locate here in spite of a lot of negatives on the bottom line because this is where their investment dollars are and where the skilled workers are because both those groups find the place desirable.

---

Businesses are here because of a legacy from a government research sponsored ecosystem that started to develop during the 1940s. But plenty of companies are already moving elsewhere for lower cost of doing business. And with our immigration policy coupled with China and other foreign countries cultivating homegrown, I won't be surprised that in 50 years, the Bay Area becomes as irrelevant for business as Hong Kong is for international trade.

---

I think something happened in Hong Kong in 1997 that might have slightly impacted its trajectory. If the Chinese communist government takes over SF, I MAY agree that SF will become irrelevant.

But again, take your hating elsewhere. If you hate it here and are too much of a coward to try your luck in one of the places you love, I feel sorry for you. And that seems to be your problem with the Bay Area. You feel trapped and you are the only one making it so. Go find your bliss and stop dumping on ours.

---

Singapore is part of the Chinese communist government? That is news to me.

I moved out a decade ago, best decision of my life.

---

What the hell are you talking about? Who mentioned Singapore?


Awesome for you. Hope you enjoy your life.

---

A lot of global finance and trade moved from Hong Kong to Singapore, but I can't expect someone like you to know that

---

.


You know it is funny. You are accusing Bay Area people of being condescending and you are the one here being a condescending ***** and you are doing it in moronic fashion.


You: Hong Kong used to be something. Now it's not (sic). SF will be like Hong Kong.


Me: Um, I think what happened to Hong Kong was they came under control of communist China. If SF comes under control of communist China, you might be right that SF will go the way of Hong Kong. Maybe I wasn't explicit enough about what happened in 1997 to Hong Kong. I actually did expect someone like you to know that in that year Hong Kong, what was one of the most nakedly capitalist cities in the world came under the control of communist China. I guess I overestimated you.


You: Singapore is part of the Chinese Communist government? That is news to me.


Me: (internal monologue) ***? Did I skip over something. Where the hell did I say anything that someone would interpret as saying Singapore is part of China. Read thread. No. Nothing here. He might as well of said "Hey idiot. Julius Caesar didn't rule Mongolia. What kind of moron would I have to be to think Singapore is part of China?

Me: (external) *** are you talking about?


You: A lot of global finance moved to Singapore but I don't expect someone like you to know that.


Dude! What the eff are you talking about? We weren't talking about Singapore. I do know about Singapore. I know that they are an amazing success story. They have taken advantage of a massively advantageous geographical location for trade, China blunting the success of Hong Kong and mostly just amazingly good governance from a unitary government + a mostly uniform culture and people with tremendous faith in their leaders and the luck to have leaders who have not used their power for personal gain nearly as much as most leaders who are bestowed the same level of power. None of which was relevant to our conversation. If you think Hong Kong's more diminished because of Singapore than because it has been hampered by Chinese communist, authoritarian rule, not to mention the fact that foreign companies know their IP isn't safe there with the Chinese government influence, I don't know what to say.


By the way, recent developments in genetic research including the mapping of the human genome and significant discoveries in Neanderthal genetics have indicated that Homo sapiens sapiens clearly interbred with Homo sapiens neanderthalensis, which many did not believe based on the fossil record. Not that I expect someone like you to know that. Just thought if we were going to call each other stupid for not displaying knowledge of facts we weren't discussing, I'd throw that out there.

---

SFCityBear said:

---

upsetof86 said:

---

dmh65 said:

---

Having your windshield smashed in, and getting parking tickets for exceeding the meter by 2 minutes builds character and necessitates having a sense of zen.
Top Dog and Blondies diet toughens the gut.

---

Seems ludicrous. I mean specifically politically leftist rankings. Berkeley top ten place to "retire?" LOL. Oakland ranked #20/out of 229 cities? San Fran #7? Proximity to mental health support was a criterion, really??? I'm not far right I'm middle right and love my visits to Berk and SF and parts of Oaktown but c'mon this is absurdly agenda driven.

---

Do you have some evidence for this, or is it only your opinion?

After all, KTVU is part of the Fox News Network, which, although not as conservative as it once was, still provides news and opinion which is somewhat slanted to and for the right. Why would they suddenly take a left-wing driven agenda slant on this issue?

---

upsetof86 said:

---

SFCityBear said:

---

upsetof86 said:

---

dmh65 said:

---

Having your windshield smashed in, and getting parking tickets for exceeding the meter by 2 minutes builds character and necessitates having a sense of zen.
Top Dog and Blondies diet toughens the gut.

---

Seems ludicrous. I mean specifically politically leftist rankings. Berkeley top ten place to "retire?" LOL. Oakland ranked #20/out of 229 cities? San Fran #7? Proximity to mental health support was a criterion, really??? I'm not far right I'm middle right and love my visits to Berk and SF and parts of Oaktown but c'mon this is absurdly agenda driven.

---

Do you have some evidence for this, or is it only your opinion?

After all, KTVU is part of the Fox News Network, which, although not as conservative as it once was, still provides news and opinion which is somewhat slanted to and for the right. Why would they suddenly take a left-wing driven agenda slant on this issue?

---

Sharon Song authored the article is a Berkeley grad spent most of her life in the East Bay. Niche is a company closely affiliated to Carnegie Mellon Univ as it was founded by CEO Luke Skurman who was born and raised in San Fran and a CMU grad and board member at CMU which is currently one of several universities that have the dubious distinction of being federally investigated for antisemitism. Given the rankings criteria, the environment these folks have elected to immerse themselves you can form your own opinion of course.

---