After he got let go he poached Shaq Thompson among others after they signed with us and got them to go to Udub ??

Because they have no memory, are desperate and prepared to sell our souls to stay "in the conversation". I thought the Calgorithm was enough.

Because we're not in a position to be choosy right now. We could stay bitter about it and just spiral down the drain until we get relegated or we can admit that it was a ****ty thing he did 15 years ago but we have to do what's in the best interest for the program. Tosh was likely the best candidate we could realistically land and if he starts pulling in high-end recruits, opens up booster pocketbooks, and wins games then we can let the past be the past.

Because we want to win and he's the one with then highest chances and support to make to happen.

Doesn't seem like things were black and white either. Time to move on.

Just win, baby. But really, for the sake of staying alive just win, baby.

calbearsfan said:

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After he got let go he poached Shaq Thompson among others after they signed with us and got them to go to Udub ??

---

I'm only familiar of stuff after the 2011 season. What did he do in 2014?

Because the reason he left was he had more character than coach Tedford who flunked so many students that we became the laughing stock of the country. He was selling African American 5 star kids lies and he no longer wanted to be apart. This was preceded by Tedford lying and making him take the fall for illegal delay tactics against Chip Kelley and Oregon'

P.S.
You're wrong again, Shaq came onto this site and said he didn't like how we talked about Tosh after he left and he was deco mitting. You took it as his fault. Shaq said it was you're fault.
Anything else you ant me to prove you're wrong about?

Serenity prayer.

The real question is who can take us to the next level. I think it's Tosh. We need to let it go and look forward

Because those people think they are enlightened beings, that they understand how "the real world works." That rejecting Tosh is tantamount to being a loser, clinging to our pearls of outdated wisdom (oxymoron intended, wisdom is never outdated by definition). The new narrative after the old new narrative (Wilcox is a return to fundamental football) , is that hiring Tosh is (A) a simultaneous cast aside of our past curmudgeonly grudges and (B) the mythological coaching move that is convincing enough to finally spur big donors to come off the sidelines to stake our GM and new head coach (our batman and robin) at the high roller table in tye college football casino.

TonyTiger said:

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Because the reason he left was he had more character than coach Tedford who flunked so many students that we became the laughing stock of the country. He was selling African American 5 star kids lies and he no longer wanted to be apart. This was preceded by Tedford lying and making him take the fall for illegal delay tactics against Chip Kelley and Oregon'

P.S.
You're wrong again, Shaq came onto this site and said he didn't like how we talked about Tosh after he left and he was deco mitting. You took it as his fault. Shaq said it was you're fault.
Anything else you ant me to prove you're wrong about?

---

That was why Tosh left? It wasn't because Washington offered him more money and a yacht after Cal said they wouldn't raise their offer again?

kal kommie said:

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That was why Tosh left? It wasn't because Washington offered him more money and a yacht after Cal said they wouldn't raise their offer again?

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Exactly - good memory!

72CalBear said:

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kal kommie said:

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That was why Tosh left? It wasn't because Washington offered him more money and a yacht after Cal said they wouldn't raise their offer again?

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Exactly - good memory!

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Hmm, you two will be sent to reeducation camps in the north side port-o-potties.

kal kommie said:

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TonyTiger said:

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Because the reason he left was he had more character than coach Tedford who flunked so many students that we became the laughing stock of the country. He was selling African American 5 star kids lies and he no longer wanted to be apart. This was preceded by Tedford lying and making him take the fall for illegal delay tactics against Chip Kelley and Oregon'

P.S.
You're wrong again, Shaq came onto this site and said he didn't like how we talked about Tosh after he left and he was deco mitting. You took it as his fault. Shaq said it was you're fault.
Anything else you ant me to prove you're wrong about?

---

That was why Tosh left? It wasn't because Washington offered him more money and a yacht after Cal said they wouldn't raise their offer again?

---

I could be wrong but I don't think Cal said anything like "This is our highest offer". My recollection, through the grapevine of forum posts and 'insider' scoops admittedly, was that Tosh brought the UW offer to Cal and either said or strongly implied that he would stay if Cal could match which Cal did under the impression that it was enough to retain Tosh only for him to later turn around and use the Cal match to negotiate for more at UW and not even come back to Cal with a chance to respond.

As far as the character reasons and concerns about academic development and falling APR or that Cal was lying to recruits I can't say that I've heard that part of the story before. Feeling betrayed by Tedford and thrown under the bus for fake injuries? That I've heard.

I'm firmly against hiring Tosh. Too much baggage for somebody who has never been a head coach.

StillNoStanfurdium said:

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kal kommie said:

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TonyTiger said:

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Because the reason he left was he had more character than coach Tedford who flunked so many students that we became the laughing stock of the country. He was selling African American 5 star kids lies and he no longer wanted to be apart. This was preceded by Tedford lying and making him take the fall for illegal delay tactics against Chip Kelley and Oregon'

P.S.
You're wrong again, Shaq came onto this site and said he didn't like how we talked about Tosh after he left and he was deco mitting. You took it as his fault. Shaq said it was you're fault.
Anything else you ant me to prove you're wrong about?

---

That was why Tosh left? It wasn't because Washington offered him more money and a yacht after Cal said they wouldn't raise their offer again?

---

I could be wrong but I don't think Cal said anything like "This is our highest offer". My recollection, through the grapevine of forum posts and 'insider' scoops admittedly, was that Tosh brought the UW offer to Cal and either said or strongly implied that he would stay if Cal could match which Cal did under the impression that it was enough to retain Tosh only for him to later turn around and use the Cal match to negotiate for more at UW and not even come back to Cal with a chance to respond.

As far as the character reasons and concerns about academic development and falling APR or that Cal was lying to recruits I can't say that I've heard that part of the story before. Feeling betrayed by Tedford and thrown under the bus for fake injuries? That I've heard.

---

This is what Moraga wrote at the time:

Quote:

---

He says that he went and got the offer matched and that he wanted him to stay, but that he won't/can't get into a bidding war for Tosh and that he (JT) needs his (Tosh's) word that this is done and that he (Tosh) isn't going anywhere.

---

That's not verbatim "wouldn't raise their offer again" but "won't/can't get into a bidding war" and "needs Tosh's word that this is done" is a reasonable match.

I have also heard from random posters that Tosh felt thrown under the bus for the fake injuries but I had never previously heard Moraga or Kunnath or the other more-or-less official insiders say that Tosh really was thrown under the bus. They told us Tosh did us very dirty and never suggested there was any possible justification or mitigation. Now they're saying there's another side to the story but won't be direct.

I refuse to believe Tosh was thrown under the bus by Tedford unless those insiders recant and explain that they either lied in 2012 (and ever since) or were duped by Tedford (etc.) but now are confident they know the truth. Or Tosh himself clears the air and claims he was made a scapegoat. But those insiders obviously aren't eager to correct the record one way or another and Tosh has never been interested in addressing that time he royally f*cked us over.

The illusion of innocence is gone now in college sports in the NIL era imo. There's no longer any rules...so why would you want a coach that plays by rules? Unless you want to see Cal in the WAC or new Pac-12.

MinotStateBeav said:

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The illusion of innocence is gone now in college sports in the NIL era imo. There's no longer any rules...so why would you want a coach that plays by rules? Unless you want to see Cal in the WAC or new Pac-12.

---

I don't care much about playing by the rules. I don't care about faking injuries or the recruiting shenanigans Tosh was accused of. I only care about whether Tosh spitefully f*cked over the program people here claim he loves along with his football mentor Tedford and did so without any reasonable mitigation. Because that was the story our insiders told us in 2012 and they never tried to modify that until now. And they're not correcting the record with candor now, they're muddying the waters by saying there's another side to the story but keeping it to themselves.

Without rules its all just Calvinball

kal kommie said:

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StillNoStanfurdium said:

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kal kommie said:

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TonyTiger said:

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Because the reason he left was he had more character than coach Tedford who flunked so many students that we became the laughing stock of the country. He was selling African American 5 star kids lies and he no longer wanted to be apart. This was preceded by Tedford lying and making him take the fall for illegal delay tactics against Chip Kelley and Oregon'

P.S.
You're wrong again, Shaq came onto this site and said he didn't like how we talked about Tosh after he left and he was deco mitting. You took it as his fault. Shaq said it was you're fault.
Anything else you ant me to prove you're wrong about?

---

That was why Tosh left? It wasn't because Washington offered him more money and a yacht after Cal said they wouldn't raise their offer again?

---

I could be wrong but I don't think Cal said anything like "This is our highest offer". My recollection, through the grapevine of forum posts and 'insider' scoops admittedly, was that Tosh brought the UW offer to Cal and either said or strongly implied that he would stay if Cal could match which Cal did under the impression that it was enough to retain Tosh only for him to later turn around and use the Cal match to negotiate for more at UW and not even come back to Cal with a chance to respond.

As far as the character reasons and concerns about academic development and falling APR or that Cal was lying to recruits I can't say that I've heard that part of the story before. Feeling betrayed by Tedford and thrown under the bus for fake injuries? That I've heard.

---

This is what Moraga wrote at the time:

Quote:

---

He says that he went and got the offer matched and that he wanted him to stay, but that he won't/can't get into a bidding war for Tosh and that he (JT) needs his (Tosh's) word that this is done and that he (Tosh) isn't going anywhere.

---

That's not verbatim "wouldn't raise their offer again" but "won't/can't get into a bidding war" and "needs Tosh's word that this is done" is a reasonable match.

I have also heard from random posters that Tosh felt thrown under the bus for the fake injuries but I had never previously heard Moraga or Kunnath or the other more-or-less official insiders say that Tosh really was thrown under the bus. They told us Tosh did us very dirty and never suggested there was any possible justification or mitigation. Now they're saying there's another side to the story but won't be direct.

I refuse to believe Tosh was thrown under the bus by Tedford unless those insiders recant and explain that they either lied in 2012 (and ever since) or were duped by Tedford (etc.) but now are confident they know the truth. Or Tosh himself clears the air and claims he was made a scapegoat. But those insiders obviously aren't eager to correct the record one way or another and Tosh has never been interested in addressing that time he royally f*cked us over.

---

https://www.dailycal.org/sports/msports/football/mike-silver-endorses-tosh-lupoi-as-killer-candidate-for-cal-head-coach/article_3478774f-be96-4e7c-b24a-62c03eb483be.html

Saw this recent DailyCal article which does have Mike Silver mentioning the fake injury scapegoating. Although it's technically hearsay I'm assuming that Silver isn't making up an interaction with Tosh when he talks about him.

As far as the no bidding war thing, I suppose it's a matter of wanting to know then and there whether the offer was good enough. Sounds like Tosh honestly could've tried to negotiate for more in the moment or made his target more clear it's just that Tedford didn't want him to go back and forth repeatedly. It's definitely not quite Cal having made a final offer that UW simply beat and to me it sounds an awful lot like Tosh wasn't seriously entertaining the idea of staying.

kal kommie said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

The illusion of innocence is gone now in college sports in the NIL era imo. There's no longer any rules...so why would you want a coach that plays by rules? Unless you want to see Cal in the WAC or new Pac-12.

---

I don't care much about playing by the rules. I don't care about faking injuries or the recruiting shenanigans Tosh was accused of. I only care about whether Tosh spitefully f*cked over the program people here claim he loves along with his football mentor Tedford and did so without any reasonable mitigation. Because that was the story our insiders told us in 2012 and they never tried to modify that until now. And they're not correcting the record with candor now, they're muddying the waters by saying there's another side to the story but keeping it to themselves.

---

Ok that's great, but this is a new era of college football. No Rose Bowls, Less bands, more DJs. Remodeling only half a stadium so the boosters can enjoy it. Heck you can't even have a conference of regional rivals anymore. You better get on board bub.

calbearsfan said:

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After he got let go he poached Shaq Thompson among others after they signed with us and got them to go to Udub ??

---

Speaking for myself, I know he acted quite unethically, but I'm willing to forgive him after years have gone by. And it's not like he hurt somebody or anything. Trusted BI sources have said that he regrets his previous transgressions and has a dream of coming back to Cal and leading his alma mater to the promised land.

That's good enough for me. I was talking to a former Cal Football player at the hoops game this evening. We both agreed that people should let go of this sanctimonious stuff... if they can. Y'all never did a few things that you regret, when you were younger? C'mon...

Bearly Clad said:

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Because we're not in a position to be choosy right now. We could stay bitter about it and just spiral down the drain until we get relegated or we can admit that it was a ****ty thing he did 15 years ago but we have to do what's in the best interest for the program. Tosh was likely the best candidate we could realistically land and if he starts pulling in high-end recruits, opens up booster pocketbooks, and wins games then we can let the past be the past.

---

Thank God that Ron & Lyons are able to keep the main thing the main thing.

calbearsfan said:

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After he got let go he poached Shaq Thompson among others after they signed with us and got them to go to Udub ??

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Because Tosh is a very sexy man. How can you resist this face?

philly1121 said:

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Because they have no memory, are desperate and prepared to sell our souls to stay "in the conversation". I thought the Calgorithm was enough.

---

Because they're not whiny drama queens who can't let go of a 15 year old grudge.

Some of you are truly a piece of work. My god. Grow up.

https://bearinsider.com/forums/2/topics/131439

Answer(s): because Tosh has been hired by people we DO believe in. And, because none of us has the $ten million to argue meaningfully.

Has any of us met and talked to Tosh? RR and Lyons may have seen more in him than we're aware. We don't know. I've been as big a skeptic as anyone, but it's all on second and third hand stuff and on long held resentment for what we know he did. We've said our piece. Time to let go.

Because he is Cal's ID, the primal life source that will satiate our lust for aggression.

Anarchistbear said:

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Because he is Cal's ID, the primal life source that will satiate our lust for aggression.

---

We have a lust for being number one in academia. Academia is a rough and tumble world, just not in the physical sense (unless you discount the dance and other physical expressions of art and performance).

If there is no competition, you don't get peoples' best (some don't know how much they're capable of until they compete, and participation trophies just encourage laxity). And, a certain percentage of us get enjoyment from the physical hitting (kinda like a mini orgasm). So, we set up rules to funnel the aggression, but we need it. And, it prepares us physically and emotionally to defend ourselves against those who would destroy us through aggression, physical and otherwise.

I was mad also. You are talking about 10-11 years ago. He was thrown under the bus, got offered more money, and was treated better. I love Cal it upset me, BUT you have to always put yourself in the persons shoes. Imagine having your employer throw you under the bus, doesn't offer a counter when you got a new job offer, and there was other stuff behind the scenes. You wouldn't stay either. You would go take the better job with more pay. You expect him to be more loyal than you are to your company. This is our passion, but this is his business. He went to Cal and I am sorry... Once a Bear always a Bear. Some people need to stop acting like a baby and grow up.

Get over it!!! Shaq Thompson is now an 11 year NFL pro. This all happened in late 2011, memorial wasn't even renovated yet.

That's how long it's been.

As soon as Tosh starts reeling in 4 stars why a couple 5s here and there, nobody will remember recruitments of 14 years ago.

MTbear22 said:

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philly1121 said:

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Because they have no memory, are desperate and prepared to sell our souls to stay "in the conversation". I thought the Calgorithm was enough.

---

Because they're not whiny drama queens who can't let go of a 15 year old grudge.

Some of you are truly a piece of work. My god. Grow up.

---

No, its because you're desperate. You're looking for the Hail Mary. The last despairing pass before the lights go out. So you sell your soul. If you still have one.

Honestly, I don't really care. Hire him. I just have to call out hypocrisy when I see it. Scorn, derision, ire, jealousy, contempt for 13 years. And now, you're hoping he "chooses" us. Its delicious.

philly1121 said:

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MTbear22 said:

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philly1121 said:

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Because they have no memory, are desperate and prepared to sell our souls to stay "in the conversation". I thought the Calgorithm was enough.

---

Because they're not whiny drama queens who can't let go of a 15 year old grudge.

Some of you are truly a piece of work. My god. Grow up.

---

No, its because you're desperate. You're looking for the Hail Mary. The last despairing pass before the lights go out. So you sell your soul. If you still have one.

Honestly, I don't really care. Hire him. I just have to call out hypocrisy when I see it. Scorn, derision, ire, jealousy, contempt for 13 years. And now, you're hoping he "chooses" us. Its delicious.

---

Sell your soul hahaha. So dramatic. You can be upset at him leaving which was a big part our fault. Our being Tedford and the people here at the time. However, it isn't selling your soul because a coach left for a better job with more pay and took some players with him. The childish thinking on this board is funny sometimes.

MTbear22 said:

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philly1121 said:

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Because they have no memory, are desperate and prepared to sell our souls to stay "in the conversation". I thought the Calgorithm was enough.

---

Because they're not whiny drama queens who can't let go of a 15 year old grudge.

Some of you are truly a piece of work. My god. Grow up.

---

I don't know about you but if my wife fkd me over 15 years ago I might forgive but I certainly wouldn't marry her again AND not have her sign a prenup, which she would never sign hence we would never re marry because it would not be about re-marrying " me."

upsetof86 said:

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MTbear22 said:

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philly1121 said:

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Because they have no memory, are desperate and prepared to sell our souls to stay "in the conversation". I thought the Calgorithm was enough.

---

Because they're not whiny drama queens who can't let go of a 15 year old grudge.

Some of you are truly a piece of work. My god. Grow up.

---

I don't know about you but if my wife fkd me over 15 years ago I might forgive but I certainly wouldn't marry her again AND not have her sign a prenup, which she would never sign hence we would never re marry because it would not be about re-marrying " me."

---

Again, so dramatic. You don't have to make up scenarios different than the one that it is. The scenario is you have a great employee. You treated him not great, he got offered more money at a better company, and you didn't counter. You then blame him for leaving and taking some of his clients with him which hurt your business. He goes and continues to be very successful. He was a great employee for you. Your company is struggling. You go and hire him because he is a good employee that can hopefully help your business. That is all this is.

I can see how your scenario though would be upsetting. You blame your wife for you treating her like crap and her leaving and taking the kids because you didn't value her enough. Then she becomes even better looking and more successful. She wants you back even though she shouldn't after all the hate you have given her over the years blaming her for your short comings. Your ego is to bruised to realize it was your fault she left you and you don't want her back. Even though she was so good for you and could be again. The Drama... this is like a day time show.

jamonit said:

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upsetof86 said:

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MTbear22 said:

---

philly1121 said:

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Because they have no memory, are desperate and prepared to sell our souls to stay "in the conversation". I thought the Calgorithm was enough.

---

Because they're not whiny drama queens who can't let go of a 15 year old grudge.

Some of you are truly a piece of work. My god. Grow up.

---

I don't know about you but if my wife fkd me over 15 years ago I might forgive but I certainly wouldn't marry her again AND not have her sign a prenup, which she would never sign hence we would never re marry because it would not be about re-marrying " me."

---

Again, so dramatic. You don't have to make up scenarios different than the one that it is. The scenario is you have a great employee. You treated him not great, he got offered more money at a better company, and you didn't counter. You then blame him for leaving and taking some of his clients with him which hurt your business. He goes and continues to be very successful. He was a great employee for you. Your company is struggling. You go and hire him because he is a good employee that can hopefully help your business. That is all this is.

I can see how your scenario though would be upsetting. You blame your wife for you treating her like crap and her leaving and taking the kids because you didn't value her enough. Then she becomes even better looking and more successful. She wants you back even though she shouldn't after all the hate you have given her over the years blaming her for your short comings. Your ego is to bruised to realize it was your fault she left you and you don't want her back. Even though she was so good for you and could be again. The Drama... this is like a day time show.

---

If you steal clients you get sued. Its not ego bruising its about a real loss, it is also about trust. In your world the rules of the game are fluid and opposing this hire is to be ignorant - to fit your agenda about what happened 15 years ago - an injustice to Tosh, the loss of Tosh was Tedfords fault because he didn't like being upstaged by the true engine of his success. This long awaited (too long awaited) hiring cycle finally arrives where we had myriad good choices, but of course we use it to cure your (many here) old grudge against "Tedford's mishandling" of that moment. It is the real grudge behind this hiring, and I believe it is misguided.