Is this the hire that moves us to the top of the ACC, and keeps Cal as a perennial favorite? Or, is Cal football bound for the Mountain West and into obscurity? No crystal ball here, but things "feel" precarious.

Don't give a **** about the past, other than there wasn't much character shown with play style and recruiting, and leopards don't change their spots. Is my ptsd flaring up so much that any DC hire with zero HC experience feels like its destined to be Wilcox2.0?

I'm left pretty meh about the whole thing, and absolutely hoping I can check back in here in 4 years with a "you were right, he was an awesome hire!". But today? Meh. The only hope I'm generating is that I'm wrong. There are more comfortable places but be, but it is what it is.

Feeling like its less about him and more about the budget for the rest of the needed things - is there enough $ availabile for effective staff? Does he know who effective staff candidates even are?? Who is the OC? Seems pretty key... And, how much $$ does the program have for NIL? That is the big one that'll make or break the program.

People writing checks want him, so they are the deciders, not me. I'm just riding coat tails.

Ok. So here we go. Go Bears

GrizzledBear said:

---

Is this the hire that moves us to the top of the ACC, and keeps Cal as a perennial favorite? Or, is Cal football bound for the Mountain West and into obscurity? No crystal ball here, but things "feel" precarious.

Don't give a **** about the past, other than there wasn't much character shown with play style and recruiting, and leopards don't change their spots. Is my ptsd flaring up so much that any DC hire with zero HC experience feels like its destined to be Wilcox2.0?

I'm left pretty meh about the whole thing, and absolutely hoping I can check back in here in 4 years with a "you were right, he was an awesome hire!". But today? Meh. The only hope I'm generating is that I'm wrong. There are more comfortable places but be, but it is what it is.

Feeling like its less about him and more about the budget for the rest of the needed things - is there enough $ availabile for effective staff? Does he know who effective staff candidates even are?? Who is the OC? Seems pretty key... And, how much $$ does the program have for NIL? That is the big one that'll make or break the program.

People writing checks want him, so they are the deciders, not me. I'm just riding coat tails.

Ok. So here we go. Go Bears

---

I appreciate your take. I find it interesting you don't really care about the past. But hey, do each their own.

To me Tosh was the best guy on the board for the budget Cal was going to have. They do not have LSU money (nor should they) so hiring a guy with a team in the CFP was out. The timing didn't work for the guy I would have donated my parents inheritance for - James Franklin.

I think that Lewis was a safer hire and I like his work at SDSU but I also feel like revealed preferences are a thing and no one with openings was taking a run at him so perhaps there is more than meets the eye.

I am not losing sleep over this. He will do what he does and if he sucks at managing people it isn't like that wasn't pretty obvious risk. I assume he did well on that score in the interview.

CalFan4Ever said:

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StillNoStanfurdium said:

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CalFan4Ever said:

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StillNoStanfurdium said:

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CalFan4Ever said:

---

Can this be the official coping thread for those of us who don't like this?

Not only have I not forgiven what he did 15 years ago (can you even forgive someone who doesn't ask to be forgiven?) but I can't help but wonder the upside. Is the upside that we go to another holiday bowl and he leaves taking all our best recruits (but even worse this time with easier rules?) I'd rather have another 7-5 season than holiday bowl and crash out. I have no love for this hire.

At this point, it is what it is. He will be the coach and I won't have any affinity towards him. He can win games and that still won't change. Still confused how Kiffin gets flamed and Tosh gets to go back to his Alma mater he burned without much of a second thought.

---

If someone like Tedford or the Cal athletes that actually played under him as well as the major donors who fund our football program forgive and support him I honestly don't know what standing any random fan will has to be bear this kind of grudge. Not to mention that it's still possibly that in some kind of introductory press conference that Tosh goes actually address the past controversy and express an in-context public mea culpa.

---

You're right I totally forgot only certain stakeholders are allowed to hold opinions. How silly of me. Hey if he wants to address the situation then I'm all ears, but it's been silence for 15 years. What's the phrase- fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice won't get fooled again!

---

You're allowed to have your opinion but it seems increasingly silly to hold such an opinion if the people in position to have been most directly harmed or aggrieved by his actions have moved past it.

---

I'm not sure who's in a position to minimize anyone's harm/grievance. Especially an alum/fan for decades. Who do you think is more aggrieved exactly?

---

Is this a trick question? I think it's obvious that the most aggrieved people would be people with a more direct connection to Tosh. Tedford, IMO, was most directly affected being left high and dry before a recruiting trip and felt the immediate consequences of Tosh's actions as the HC of the team getting screwed from a recruiting perspective. It was arguably the beginning of the end for his coaching tenure at Cal (and possibly related to the upcoming APR issues that were the nail in the coffin for him alongside a slumping record). He's the person that can most view it as a professional and personal betrayal.

Former players who would've been far closer to the situation would also be personally affected in losing their coach and the impact on teams they played for (in addition to inherently also being alum/fans). I would totally understand them feeling bitter given that they are they folks who actually know Tosh more personally and directly.

Donors who actually fund the program would've been directly affected if they made donation commitments to fund increased assistant salaries and so forth or made donations to the program on the strength of Cal's recruiting outlook only to be rug-pulled. They also are way more likely to have met and interacted with Tosh on a personal level than the average alum/fan (of any length of time).

These people are not only the most affected by past actions but they're also the people that know the truth of what happened the most (especially Tedford and the players) rather than needing to rely on Insider scoops or hearsay speculation from outside the program.

If you want to correct me and say that you're actually someone who was on the inside and knows the whole story and was personally affected then be my guest to hold that grudge. I wouldn't challenge it. But if you're just an alum/fan observing things then I think it's fair to question whether it makes sense to hold your opinions this strongly when others who were more personally impacted and have more direct knowledge of the situation have moved on.

Good point above - has tedford ever really addressed the issue? I admit I do not follow things close enough to listen to each and every interview.

StillNoStanfurdium said:

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CalFan4Ever said:

---

StillNoStanfurdium said:

---

CalFan4Ever said:

---

StillNoStanfurdium said:

---

CalFan4Ever said:

---

Can this be the official coping thread for those of us who don't like this?


Not only have I not forgiven what he did 15 years ago (can you even forgive someone who doesn't ask to be forgiven?) but I can't help but wonder the upside. Is the upside that we go to another holiday bowl and he leaves taking all our best recruits (but even worse this time with easier rules?) I'd rather have another 7-5 season than holiday bowl and crash out. I have no love for this hire.

At this point, it is what it is. He will be the coach and I won't have any affinity towards him. He can win games and that still won't change. Still confused how Kiffin gets flamed and Tosh gets to go back to his Alma mater he burned without much of a second thought.

---

If someone like Tedford or the Cal athletes that actually played under him as well as the major donors who fund our football program forgive and support him I honestly don't know what standing any random fan will has to be bear this kind of grudge. Not to mention that it's still possibly that in some kind of introductory press conference that Tosh goes actually address the past controversy and express an in-context public mea culpa.

---

You're right I totally forgot only certain stakeholders are allowed to hold opinions. How silly of me. Hey if he wants to address the situation then I'm all ears, but it's been silence for 15 years. What's the phrase- fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice won't get fooled again!

---

You're allowed to have your opinion but it seems increasingly silly to hold such an opinion if the people in position to have been most directly harmed or aggrieved by his actions have moved past it.

---

I'm not sure who's in a position to minimize anyone's harm/grievance. Especially an alum/fan for decades. Who do you think is more aggrieved exactly?

---

Is this a trick question? I think it's obvious that the most aggrieved people would be people with a more direct connection to Tosh. Tedford, IMO, was most directly affected being left high and dry before a recruiting trip and felt the immediate consequences of Tosh's actions as the HC of the team getting screwed from a recruiting perspective. It was arguably the beginning of the end for his coaching tenure at Cal (and possibly related to the upcoming APR issues that were the nail in the coffin for him alongside a slumping record). He's the person that can most view it as a professional and personal betrayal.

Former players who would've been far closer to the situation would also be personally affected in losing their coach and the impact on teams they played for (in addition to inherently also being alum/fans). I would totally understand them feeling bitter given that they are they folks who actually know Tosh more personally and directly.

Donors who actually fund the program would've been directly affected if they made donation commitments to fund increased assistant salaries and so forth or made donations to the program on the strength of Cal's recruiting outlook only to be rug-pulled. They also are way more likely to have met and interacted with Tosh on a personal level than the average alum/fan (of any length of time).

These people are not only the most affected by past actions but they're also the people that know the truth of what happened the most (especially Tedford and the players) rather than needing to rely on Insider scoops or hearsay speculation from outside the program.

If you want to correct me and say that you're actually someone who was on the inside and knows the whole story and was personally affected then be my guest to hold that grudge. I wouldn't challenge it. But if you're just an alum/fan observing things then I think it's fair to question whether it makes sense to hold your opinions this strongly when others who were more personally impacted and have more direct knowledge of the situation have moved on.

---

Nope, not a trick question. No one's in any position to judge how someone feels about something. Someone might have a far different attitude about something despite being closer to the situation. Tedford could well have shrugged it off as a business decision, whereas I as a fan do not see it that way. Former players could have empathized with him because he's likeable, but that's their prerogative. Someone donating x% of their net worth that's more than y% of my net worth that I've donated/gone to games to see has more skin in the game? That's not up to you to decide.

CalFan4Ever said:

---

StillNoStanfurdium said:

---

CalFan4Ever said:

---

StillNoStanfurdium said:

---

CalFan4Ever said:

---

StillNoStanfurdium said:

---

CalFan4Ever said:

---

Can this be the official coping thread for those of us who don't like this?


Not only have I not forgiven what he did 15 years ago (can you even forgive someone who doesn't ask to be forgiven?) but I can't help but wonder the upside. Is the upside that we go to another holiday bowl and he leaves taking all our best recruits (but even worse this time with easier rules?) I'd rather have another 7-5 season than holiday bowl and crash out. I have no love for this hire.

At this point, it is what it is. He will be the coach and I won't have any affinity towards him. He can win games and that still won't change. Still confused how Kiffin gets flamed and Tosh gets to go back to his Alma mater he burned without much of a second thought.

---

If someone like Tedford or the Cal athletes that actually played under him as well as the major donors who fund our football program forgive and support him I honestly don't know what standing any random fan will has to be bear this kind of grudge. Not to mention that it's still possibly that in some kind of introductory press conference that Tosh goes actually address the past controversy and express an in-context public mea culpa.

---

You're right I totally forgot only certain stakeholders are allowed to hold opinions. How silly of me. Hey if he wants to address the situation then I'm all ears, but it's been silence for 15 years. What's the phrase- fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice won't get fooled again!

---

You're allowed to have your opinion but it seems increasingly silly to hold such an opinion if the people in position to have been most directly harmed or aggrieved by his actions have moved past it.

---

I'm not sure who's in a position to minimize anyone's harm/grievance. Especially an alum/fan for decades. Who do you think is more aggrieved exactly?

---

Is this a trick question? I think it's obvious that the most aggrieved people would be people with a more direct connection to Tosh. Tedford, IMO, was most directly affected being left high and dry before a recruiting trip and felt the immediate consequences of Tosh's actions as the HC of the team getting screwed from a recruiting perspective. It was arguably the beginning of the end for his coaching tenure at Cal (and possibly related to the upcoming APR issues that were the nail in the coffin for him alongside a slumping record). He's the person that can most view it as a professional and personal betrayal.

Former players who would've been far closer to the situation would also be personally affected in losing their coach and the impact on teams they played for (in addition to inherently also being alum/fans). I would totally understand them feeling bitter given that they are they folks who actually know Tosh more personally and directly.

Donors who actually fund the program would've been directly affected if they made donation commitments to fund increased assistant salaries and so forth or made donations to the program on the strength of Cal's recruiting outlook only to be rug-pulled. They also are way more likely to have met and interacted with Tosh on a personal level than the average alum/fan (of any length of time).

These people are not only the most affected by past actions but they're also the people that know the truth of what happened the most (especially Tedford and the players) rather than needing to rely on Insider scoops or hearsay speculation from outside the program.

If you want to correct me and say that you're actually someone who was on the inside and knows the whole story and was personally affected then be my guest to hold that grudge. I wouldn't challenge it. But if you're just an alum/fan observing things then I think it's fair to question whether it makes sense to hold your opinions this strongly when others who were more personally impacted and have more direct knowledge of the situation have moved on.

---

Nope, not a trick question. No one's in any position to judge how someone feels about something. Someone might have a far different attitude about something despite being closer to the situation. Tedford could well have shrugged it off as a business decision, whereas I as a fan do not see it that way. Former players could have empathized with him because he's likeable, but that's their prerogative. Someone donating x% of their net worth that's more than y% of my net worth that I've donated/gone to games to see has more skin in the game? That's not up to you to decide.

---

I'll just leave things by saying that I think life's too short to take something personally which you only witnessed from the outside while those actually involved have moved on.

I'd love for Tosh to acknowledge the acrimonious exit on his introduction as HC and to address it but if he has program-changing success on the field for Cal it'll be far better than a verbal or written apology of any length.

CalFan4Ever said:

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StillNoStanfurdium said:

---

CalFan4Ever said:

---

StillNoStanfurdium said:

---

CalFan4Ever said:

---

StillNoStanfurdium said:

---

CalFan4Ever said:

---

Can this be the official coping thread for those of us who don't like this?


Not only have I not forgiven what he did 15 years ago (can you even forgive someone who doesn't ask to be forgiven?) but I can't help but wonder the upside. Is the upside that we go to another holiday bowl and he leaves taking all our best recruits (but even worse this time with easier rules?) I'd rather have another 7-5 season than holiday bowl and crash out. I have no love for this hire.

At this point, it is what it is. He will be the coach and I won't have any affinity towards him. He can win games and that still won't change. Still confused how Kiffin gets flamed and Tosh gets to go back to his Alma mater he burned without much of a second thought.

---

If someone like Tedford or the Cal athletes that actually played under him as well as the major donors who fund our football program forgive and support him I honestly don't know what standing any random fan will has to be bear this kind of grudge. Not to mention that it's still possibly that in some kind of introductory press conference that Tosh goes actually address the past controversy and express an in-context public mea culpa.

---

You're right I totally forgot only certain stakeholders are allowed to hold opinions. How silly of me. Hey if he wants to address the situation then I'm all ears, but it's been silence for 15 years. What's the phrase- fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice won't get fooled again!

---

You're allowed to have your opinion but it seems increasingly silly to hold such an opinion if the people in position to have been most directly harmed or aggrieved by his actions have moved past it.

---

I'm not sure who's in a position to minimize anyone's harm/grievance. Especially an alum/fan for decades. Who do you think is more aggrieved exactly?

---

Is this a trick question? I think it's obvious that the most aggrieved people would be people with a more direct connection to Tosh. Tedford, IMO, was most directly affected being left high and dry before a recruiting trip and felt the immediate consequences of Tosh's actions as the HC of the team getting screwed from a recruiting perspective. It was arguably the beginning of the end for his coaching tenure at Cal (and possibly related to the upcoming APR issues that were the nail in the coffin for him alongside a slumping record). He's the person that can most view it as a professional and personal betrayal.

Former players who would've been far closer to the situation would also be personally affected in losing their coach and the impact on teams they played for (in addition to inherently also being alum/fans). I would totally understand them feeling bitter given that they are they folks who actually know Tosh more personally and directly.

Donors who actually fund the program would've been directly affected if they made donation commitments to fund increased assistant salaries and so forth or made donations to the program on the strength of Cal's recruiting outlook only to be rug-pulled. They also are way more likely to have met and interacted with Tosh on a personal level than the average alum/fan (of any length of time).

These people are not only the most affected by past actions but they're also the people that know the truth of what happened the most (especially Tedford and the players) rather than needing to rely on Insider scoops or hearsay speculation from outside the program.

If you want to correct me and say that you're actually someone who was on the inside and knows the whole story and was personally affected then be my guest to hold that grudge. I wouldn't challenge it. But if you're just an alum/fan observing things then I think it's fair to question whether it makes sense to hold your opinions this strongly when others who were more personally impacted and have more direct knowledge of the situation have moved on.

---

Nope, not a trick question. No one's in any position to judge how someone feels about something. Someone might have a far different attitude about something despite being closer to the situation. Tedford could well have shrugged it off as a business decision, whereas I as a fan do not see it that way. Former players could have empathized with him because he's likeable, but that's their prerogative. Someone donating x% of their net worth that's more than y% of my net worth that I've donated/gone to games to see has more skin in the game? That's not up to you to decide.

---

" whereas I as a fan do not see it that way. "

But here is the thing - the whole "I hate Tosh thing" really takes agency away from the recruits and assumes that just because he said X we got outcome Y. Recruits do weird and wacky things in situation with high uncertainty. No one guy "blows up a class".

Far worse, honestly, is the strength coach who could have been prosecuted for negligent homicide.

StillNoStanfurdium said:

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CalFan4Ever said:

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StillNoStanfurdium said:

---

CalFan4Ever said:

---

StillNoStanfurdium said:

---

CalFan4Ever said:

---

StillNoStanfurdium said:

---

CalFan4Ever said:

---

Can this be the official coping thread for those of us who don't like this?


Not only have I not forgiven what he did 15 years ago (can you even forgive someone who doesn't ask to be forgiven?) but I can't help but wonder the upside. Is the upside that we go to another holiday bowl and he leaves taking all our best recruits (but even worse this time with easier rules?) I'd rather have another 7-5 season than holiday bowl and crash out. I have no love for this hire.

At this point, it is what it is. He will be the coach and I won't have any affinity towards him. He can win games and that still won't change. Still confused how Kiffin gets flamed and Tosh gets to go back to his Alma mater he burned without much of a second thought.

---

If someone like Tedford or the Cal athletes that actually played under him as well as the major donors who fund our football program forgive and support him I honestly don't know what standing any random fan will has to be bear this kind of grudge. Not to mention that it's still possibly that in some kind of introductory press conference that Tosh goes actually address the past controversy and express an in-context public mea culpa.

---

You're right I totally forgot only certain stakeholders are allowed to hold opinions. How silly of me. Hey if he wants to address the situation then I'm all ears, but it's been silence for 15 years. What's the phrase- fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice won't get fooled again!

---

You're allowed to have your opinion but it seems increasingly silly to hold such an opinion if the people in position to have been most directly harmed or aggrieved by his actions have moved past it.

---

I'm not sure who's in a position to minimize anyone's harm/grievance. Especially an alum/fan for decades. Who do you think is more aggrieved exactly?

---

Is this a trick question? I think it's obvious that the most aggrieved people would be people with a more direct connection to Tosh. Tedford, IMO, was most directly affected being left high and dry before a recruiting trip and felt the immediate consequences of Tosh's actions as the HC of the team getting screwed from a recruiting perspective. It was arguably the beginning of the end for his coaching tenure at Cal (and possibly related to the upcoming APR issues that were the nail in the coffin for him alongside a slumping record). He's the person that can most view it as a professional and personal betrayal.

Former players who would've been far closer to the situation would also be personally affected in losing their coach and the impact on teams they played for (in addition to inherently also being alum/fans). I would totally understand them feeling bitter given that they are they folks who actually know Tosh more personally and directly.

Donors who actually fund the program would've been directly affected if they made donation commitments to fund increased assistant salaries and so forth or made donations to the program on the strength of Cal's recruiting outlook only to be rug-pulled. They also are way more likely to have met and interacted with Tosh on a personal level than the average alum/fan (of any length of time).

These people are not only the most affected by past actions but they're also the people that know the truth of what happened the most (especially Tedford and the players) rather than needing to rely on Insider scoops or hearsay speculation from outside the program.

If you want to correct me and say that you're actually someone who was on the inside and knows the whole story and was personally affected then be my guest to hold that grudge. I wouldn't challenge it. But if you're just an alum/fan observing things then I think it's fair to question whether it makes sense to hold your opinions this strongly when others who were more personally impacted and have more direct knowledge of the situation have moved on.

---

Nope, not a trick question. No one's in any position to judge how someone feels about something. Someone might have a far different attitude about something despite being closer to the situation. Tedford could well have shrugged it off as a business decision, whereas I as a fan do not see it that way. Former players could have empathized with him because he's likeable, but that's their prerogative. Someone donating x% of their net worth that's more than y% of my net worth that I've donated/gone to games to see has more skin in the game? That's not up to you to decide.

---

I'll just leave things by saying that I think life's too short to take something personally which you only witnessed from the outside while those actually involved have moved on.

I'd love for Tosh to acknowledge the acrimonious exit on his introduction as HC and to address it but if he has program-changing success on the field for Cal it'll be far better than a verbal or written apology of any length.

---

Life's too short sure. I don't take it personally. I was fine telling him not to let the door hit him on the way out. But now he's back so he's square in the frame of the only team I've cared about.

I think it's important for people to be accountable for their actions. This was a complex situation and there's probably some things we don't know. Maybe he just doesn't want to throw someone (tedford) under the bus?? Who knows!

socaltownie said:

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CalFan4Ever said:

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StillNoStanfurdium said:

---

CalFan4Ever said:

---

StillNoStanfurdium said:

---

CalFan4Ever said:

---

StillNoStanfurdium said:

---

CalFan4Ever said:

---

Can this be the official coping thread for those of us who don't like this?


Not only have I not forgiven what he did 15 years ago (can you even forgive someone who doesn't ask to be forgiven?) but I can't help but wonder the upside. Is the upside that we go to another holiday bowl and he leaves taking all our best recruits (but even worse this time with easier rules?) I'd rather have another 7-5 season than holiday bowl and crash out. I have no love for this hire.

At this point, it is what it is. He will be the coach and I won't have any affinity towards him. He can win games and that still won't change. Still confused how Kiffin gets flamed and Tosh gets to go back to his Alma mater he burned without much of a second thought.

---

If someone like Tedford or the Cal athletes that actually played under him as well as the major donors who fund our football program forgive and support him I honestly don't know what standing any random fan will has to be bear this kind of grudge. Not to mention that it's still possibly that in some kind of introductory press conference that Tosh goes actually address the past controversy and express an in-context public mea culpa.

---

You're right I totally forgot only certain stakeholders are allowed to hold opinions. How silly of me. Hey if he wants to address the situation then I'm all ears, but it's been silence for 15 years. What's the phrase- fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice won't get fooled again!

---

You're allowed to have your opinion but it seems increasingly silly to hold such an opinion if the people in position to have been most directly harmed or aggrieved by his actions have moved past it.

---

I'm not sure who's in a position to minimize anyone's harm/grievance. Especially an alum/fan for decades. Who do you think is more aggrieved exactly?

---

Is this a trick question? I think it's obvious that the most aggrieved people would be people with a more direct connection to Tosh. Tedford, IMO, was most directly affected being left high and dry before a recruiting trip and felt the immediate consequences of Tosh's actions as the HC of the team getting screwed from a recruiting perspective. It was arguably the beginning of the end for his coaching tenure at Cal (and possibly related to the upcoming APR issues that were the nail in the coffin for him alongside a slumping record). He's the person that can most view it as a professional and personal betrayal.

Former players who would've been far closer to the situation would also be personally affected in losing their coach and the impact on teams they played for (in addition to inherently also being alum/fans). I would totally understand them feeling bitter given that they are they folks who actually know Tosh more personally and directly.

Donors who actually fund the program would've been directly affected if they made donation commitments to fund increased assistant salaries and so forth or made donations to the program on the strength of Cal's recruiting outlook only to be rug-pulled. They also are way more likely to have met and interacted with Tosh on a personal level than the average alum/fan (of any length of time).

These people are not only the most affected by past actions but they're also the people that know the truth of what happened the most (especially Tedford and the players) rather than needing to rely on Insider scoops or hearsay speculation from outside the program.

If you want to correct me and say that you're actually someone who was on the inside and knows the whole story and was personally affected then be my guest to hold that grudge. I wouldn't challenge it. But if you're just an alum/fan observing things then I think it's fair to question whether it makes sense to hold your opinions this strongly when others who were more personally impacted and have more direct knowledge of the situation have moved on.

---

Nope, not a trick question. No one's in any position to judge how someone feels about something. Someone might have a far different attitude about something despite being closer to the situation. Tedford could well have shrugged it off as a business decision, whereas I as a fan do not see it that way. Former players could have empathized with him because he's likeable, but that's their prerogative. Someone donating x% of their net worth that's more than y% of my net worth that I've donated/gone to games to see has more skin in the game? That's not up to you to decide.

---

" whereas I as a fan do not see it that way. "

But here is the thing - the whole "I hate Tosh thing" really takes agency away from the recruits and assumes that just because he said X we got outcome Y. Recruits do weird and wacky things in situation with high uncertainty. No one guy "blows up a class".

Far worse, honestly, is the strength coach who could have been prosecuted for negligent homicide.

---

You're spot on that this was not a capital offense, but let's be straight- he was recruiting a very talented recruit to UW while still working for Cal. That's messed up man.

CalFan4Ever said:

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socaltownie said:

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CalFan4Ever said:

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StillNoStanfurdium said:

---

CalFan4Ever said:

---

StillNoStanfurdium said:

---

CalFan4Ever said:

---

StillNoStanfurdium said:

---

CalFan4Ever said:

---

Can this be the official coping thread for those of us who don't like this?


Not only have I not forgiven what he did 15 years ago (can you even forgive someone who doesn't ask to be forgiven?) but I can't help but wonder the upside. Is the upside that we go to another holiday bowl and he leaves taking all our best recruits (but even worse this time with easier rules?) I'd rather have another 7-5 season than holiday bowl and crash out. I have no love for this hire.

At this point, it is what it is. He will be the coach and I won't have any affinity towards him. He can win games and that still won't change. Still confused how Kiffin gets flamed and Tosh gets to go back to his Alma mater he burned without much of a second thought.

---

If someone like Tedford or the Cal athletes that actually played under him as well as the major donors who fund our football program forgive and support him I honestly don't know what standing any random fan will has to be bear this kind of grudge. Not to mention that it's still possibly that in some kind of introductory press conference that Tosh goes actually address the past controversy and express an in-context public mea culpa.

---

You're right I totally forgot only certain stakeholders are allowed to hold opinions. How silly of me. Hey if he wants to address the situation then I'm all ears, but it's been silence for 15 years. What's the phrase- fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice won't get fooled again!

---

You're allowed to have your opinion but it seems increasingly silly to hold such an opinion if the people in position to have been most directly harmed or aggrieved by his actions have moved past it.

---

I'm not sure who's in a position to minimize anyone's harm/grievance. Especially an alum/fan for decades. Who do you think is more aggrieved exactly?

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Is this a trick question? I think it's obvious that the most aggrieved people would be people with a more direct connection to Tosh. Tedford, IMO, was most directly affected being left high and dry before a recruiting trip and felt the immediate consequences of Tosh's actions as the HC of the team getting screwed from a recruiting perspective. It was arguably the beginning of the end for his coaching tenure at Cal (and possibly related to the upcoming APR issues that were the nail in the coffin for him alongside a slumping record). He's the person that can most view it as a professional and personal betrayal.

Former players who would've been far closer to the situation would also be personally affected in losing their coach and the impact on teams they played for (in addition to inherently also being alum/fans). I would totally understand them feeling bitter given that they are they folks who actually know Tosh more personally and directly.

Donors who actually fund the program would've been directly affected if they made donation commitments to fund increased assistant salaries and so forth or made donations to the program on the strength of Cal's recruiting outlook only to be rug-pulled. They also are way more likely to have met and interacted with Tosh on a personal level than the average alum/fan (of any length of time).

These people are not only the most affected by past actions but they're also the people that know the truth of what happened the most (especially Tedford and the players) rather than needing to rely on Insider scoops or hearsay speculation from outside the program.

If you want to correct me and say that you're actually someone who was on the inside and knows the whole story and was personally affected then be my guest to hold that grudge. I wouldn't challenge it. But if you're just an alum/fan observing things then I think it's fair to question whether it makes sense to hold your opinions this strongly when others who were more personally impacted and have more direct knowledge of the situation have moved on.

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Nope, not a trick question. No one's in any position to judge how someone feels about something. Someone might have a far different attitude about something despite being closer to the situation. Tedford could well have shrugged it off as a business decision, whereas I as a fan do not see it that way. Former players could have empathized with him because he's likeable, but that's their prerogative. Someone donating x% of their net worth that's more than y% of my net worth that I've donated/gone to games to see has more skin in the game? That's not up to you to decide.

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" whereas I as a fan do not see it that way. "

But here is the thing - the whole "I hate Tosh thing" really takes agency away from the recruits and assumes that just because he said X we got outcome Y. Recruits do weird and wacky things in situation with high uncertainty. No one guy "blows up a class".

Far worse, honestly, is the strength coach who could have been prosecuted for negligent homicide.

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You're spot on that this was not a capital offense, but let's be straight- he was recruiting a very talented recruit to UW while still working for Cal. That's messed up man.

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I mean that's what some people say he did, but what is the source on that? What was the timeline? Was the recruiting for UW while employed by Cal notion just some cope that was invented to justify hating tosh?

I'm pretty sure there was no free boat even though that was often repeated on the Internet.

ColoradoBear said:

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CalFan4Ever said:

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socaltownie said:

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CalFan4Ever said:

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StillNoStanfurdium said:

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CalFan4Ever said:

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StillNoStanfurdium said:

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CalFan4Ever said:

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StillNoStanfurdium said:

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CalFan4Ever said:

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Can this be the official coping thread for those of us who don't like this?


Not only have I not forgiven what he did 15 years ago (can you even forgive someone who doesn't ask to be forgiven?) but I can't help but wonder the upside. Is the upside that we go to another holiday bowl and he leaves taking all our best recruits (but even worse this time with easier rules?) I'd rather have another 7-5 season than holiday bowl and crash out. I have no love for this hire.

At this point, it is what it is. He will be the coach and I won't have any affinity towards him. He can win games and that still won't change. Still confused how Kiffin gets flamed and Tosh gets to go back to his Alma mater he burned without much of a second thought.

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If someone like Tedford or the Cal athletes that actually played under him as well as the major donors who fund our football program forgive and support him I honestly don't know what standing any random fan will has to be bear this kind of grudge. Not to mention that it's still possibly that in some kind of introductory press conference that Tosh goes actually address the past controversy and express an in-context public mea culpa.

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You're right I totally forgot only certain stakeholders are allowed to hold opinions. How silly of me. Hey if he wants to address the situation then I'm all ears, but it's been silence for 15 years. What's the phrase- fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice won't get fooled again!

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You're allowed to have your opinion but it seems increasingly silly to hold such an opinion if the people in position to have been most directly harmed or aggrieved by his actions have moved past it.

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I'm not sure who's in a position to minimize anyone's harm/grievance. Especially an alum/fan for decades. Who do you think is more aggrieved exactly?

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Is this a trick question? I think it's obvious that the most aggrieved people would be people with a more direct connection to Tosh. Tedford, IMO, was most directly affected being left high and dry before a recruiting trip and felt the immediate consequences of Tosh's actions as the HC of the team getting screwed from a recruiting perspective. It was arguably the beginning of the end for his coaching tenure at Cal (and possibly related to the upcoming APR issues that were the nail in the coffin for him alongside a slumping record). He's the person that can most view it as a professional and personal betrayal.

Former players who would've been far closer to the situation would also be personally affected in losing their coach and the impact on teams they played for (in addition to inherently also being alum/fans). I would totally understand them feeling bitter given that they are they folks who actually know Tosh more personally and directly.

Donors who actually fund the program would've been directly affected if they made donation commitments to fund increased assistant salaries and so forth or made donations to the program on the strength of Cal's recruiting outlook only to be rug-pulled. They also are way more likely to have met and interacted with Tosh on a personal level than the average alum/fan (of any length of time).

These people are not only the most affected by past actions but they're also the people that know the truth of what happened the most (especially Tedford and the players) rather than needing to rely on Insider scoops or hearsay speculation from outside the program.

If you want to correct me and say that you're actually someone who was on the inside and knows the whole story and was personally affected then be my guest to hold that grudge. I wouldn't challenge it. But if you're just an alum/fan observing things then I think it's fair to question whether it makes sense to hold your opinions this strongly when others who were more personally impacted and have more direct knowledge of the situation have moved on.

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Nope, not a trick question. No one's in any position to judge how someone feels about something. Someone might have a far different attitude about something despite being closer to the situation. Tedford could well have shrugged it off as a business decision, whereas I as a fan do not see it that way. Former players could have empathized with him because he's likeable, but that's their prerogative. Someone donating x% of their net worth that's more than y% of my net worth that I've donated/gone to games to see has more skin in the game? That's not up to you to decide.

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" whereas I as a fan do not see it that way. "

But here is the thing - the whole "I hate Tosh thing" really takes agency away from the recruits and assumes that just because he said X we got outcome Y. Recruits do weird and wacky things in situation with high uncertainty. No one guy "blows up a class".

Far worse, honestly, is the strength coach who could have been prosecuted for negligent homicide.

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You're spot on that this was not a capital offense, but let's be straight- he was recruiting a very talented recruit to UW while still working for Cal. That's messed up man.

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I mean that's what some people say he did, but what is the source on that? What was the timeline? Was the recruiting for UW while employed by Cal notion just some cope that was invented to justify hating tosh?

I'm pretty sure there was no free boat even though that was often repeated on the Internet.

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Go back to the original threads. The timeline where he moved away from Cal was before Tosh was announced to leave for UW. Then the other dominoes fell (AA) but the timing on those is less clear.

StillNoStanfurdium said:

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CalFan4Ever said:

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Can this be the official coping thread for those of us who don't like this?

Not only have I not forgiven what he did 15 years ago (can you even forgive someone who doesn't ask to be forgiven?) but I can't help but wonder the upside. Is the upside that we go to another holiday bowl and he leaves taking all our best recruits (but even worse this time with easier rules?) I'd rather have another 7-5 season than holiday bowl and crash out. I have no love for this hire.

At this point, it is what it is. He will be the coach and I won't have any affinity towards him. He can win games and that still won't change. Still confused how Kiffin gets flamed and Tosh gets to go back to his Alma mater he burned without much of a second thought.

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If someone like Tedford or the Cal athletes that actually played under him as well as the major donors who fund our football program forgive and support him I honestly don't know what standing any random fan will has to be bear this kind of grudge. Not to mention that it's still possibly that in some kind of introductory press conference that Tosh goes actually address the past controversy and express an in-context public mea culpa.

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I do not see why some posters feel they have the right to take pot shots at Cal fans who still cannot forgive and forget how Tosh hurt Cal.
If other Cal fans are willing to forgive and forget Tosh's conduct against Cal. So be it.
But one fan's willingness to forgive and forget does not justify criticizing another fan's unwillingness to forgive and forget.

I myself am not willing to forgive and forget - NOT YET. That feeling will always be in the back of my mind.
But I am first and foremost a Cal Fan. I will not wish for Cal to lose in order to show my dislike for Tosh [Like some 'Cal fans' did to show their dislike for Wilcox.]

I will continue to purchase my 4 Cal season tix every year and will show up at Memorial Stadium - rain or shine - for every game whether they start at 1pm or 7:30 pm. or anytime in between. I will cheer for the Bears and NOT leave my seats as long as there is still time on the game clock whether Cal is leading or losing.

I hope that Tosh is successful as the Cal HC. If Tosh is successful, I will be happy and maybe (just maybe) I might be willing to forgive and forget.

I'm all for it. I mean, I don't know, and I'm not religious, but I do believe in forgiveness. He's been around some of the best programs ever, and he's coming home. It's his time. Go Bears!

Once it's done, it's done. Time to swallow hard and be a loyal Bear.

Does anyone else remember when Bryce Treggs started tweeting #calgang as Cal football added each highly sought recruit to the amazing recruiting class that Lupoi then destroyed, sticking a knife in the heart of every Cal football fan? It seems surreal to me that that guy is likely to become our next football coach.

Would be very happy to have all the anti-Tosh posts quarantined in this thread so the rest of us don't have to see them. Go for it!

Suspect hire even worse extension the fact he was the DC at Washington working with tl I don't understand any consideration at all. Better more qualified candidates imo … time will tell

GrizzledBear said:

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Is this the hire that moves us to the top of the ACC, and keeps Cal as a perennial favorite? Or, is Cal football bound for the Mountain West and into obscurity? No crystal ball here, but things "feel" precarious.

Don't give a **** about the past, other than there wasn't much character shown with play style and recruiting, and leopards don't change their spots. Is my ptsd flaring up so much that any DC hire with zero HC experience feels like its destined to be Wilcox2.0?

I'm left pretty meh about the whole thing, and absolutely hoping I can check back in here in 4 years with a "you were right, he was an awesome hire!". But today? Meh. The only hope I'm generating is that I'm wrong. There are more comfortable places but be, but it is what it is.

Feeling like its less about him and more about the budget for the rest of the needed things - is there enough $ availabile for effective staff? Does he know who effective staff candidates even are?? Who is the OC? Seems pretty key... And, how much $$ does the program have for NIL? That is the big one that'll make or break the program.

People writing checks want him, so they are the deciders, not me. I'm just riding coat tails.

Ok. So here we go. Go Bears

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Share the same view. Don't really care about the past - although it is comical to watch the mental gymnastics Cal fans are performing in order to forget all the anger directed at him in 2012!

What I wonder is if he wasn't an alumni, would people really be that excited about this hire? And why is being an alumni given so much weight when it doesn't seem to matter to on-field success. It Doesn't Hurt To Hire Alumni As Head Coaches. But It Doesn't Help, Either. Just in the last few cycles you had Oregon State firing Trent Bray, UCLA firing DeShaun Foster, Oklahoma State firing Mike Gundy, Boise State firing Andy Avalos, Northwestern firing Pat Fitzgerald - all alumni of those schools.

In any event, a change after nine years of Wilcox is sorely needed. Let's also hope the contract is more favorable to Cal this time.

But Both Gundy and Fitzgerald were viewed as great hires for over a decade.

kal kommie said:

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StillNoStanfurdium said:

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CalFan4Ever said:

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Can this be the official coping thread for those of us who don't like this?

Not only have I not forgiven what he did 15 years ago (can you even forgive someone who doesn't ask to be forgiven?) but I can't help but wonder the upside. Is the upside that we go to another holiday bowl and he leaves taking all our best recruits (but even worse this time with easier rules?) I'd rather have another 7-5 season than holiday bowl and crash out. I have no love for this hire.

At this point, it is what it is. He will be the coach and I won't have any affinity towards him. He can win games and that still won't change. Still confused how Kiffin gets flamed and Tosh gets to go back to his Alma mater he burned without much of a second thought.

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If someone like Tedford or the Cal athletes that actually played under him as well as the major donors who fund our football program forgive and support him I honestly don't know what standing any random fan will has to be bear this kind of grudge. Not to mention that it's still possibly that in some kind of introductory press conference that Tosh goes actually address the past controversy and express an in-context public mea culpa.

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Forgave him for what? We no longer can even say we know what Tosh is guilty of since our insiders won't clear the air and neither has Tosh.

If Tosh acknowledged what he did and apologized, it would be much easier to move on but he has never done that and I doubt he will after being rewarded for his mercenary career with the head job at the school he f*cked over.

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Hear hear. I for one would like him to make a public statement to the press (asked by BI journo or Chron or whomever) about what happened then, officially from his mouth, ie live on tape. Seems like a reasonable ask for $5M a year.

Rushinbear said:

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Once it's done, it's done. Time to swallow hard and be a loyal Bear.

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Sounds like a fraternity hazing. But this is the situation yes, he is our new HC it seems. I hope we do great next year. Im not going to take a key and put a body length scratch on the side of our $5M/year new ride which is what my opinion is worth, small cosmetic damage.

"ChatGPT create an image of a Starbucks venti cup stuffed with money with the UW logo crossed out replaced by a Cal logo"

GoCal80 said:

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Does anyone else remember when Bryce Treggs started tweeting #calgang as Cal football added each highly sought recruit to the amazing recruiting class ..

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CAL GANG LETS GET IT CRACKIN AGAIN!!!

— Bryce Treggs (@BryceTreggs) November 23, 2025

Treggs is back at it again.

Wow… core memory unlocked!

CalFan4Ever said:

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Can this be the official coping thread for those of us who don't like this?

Not only have I not forgiven what he did 15 years ago (can you even forgive someone who doesn't ask to be forgiven?) but I can't help but wonder the upside. Is the upside that we go to another holiday bowl and he leaves taking all our best recruits (but even worse this time with easier rules?) I'd rather have another 7-5 season than holiday bowl and crash out. I have no love for this hire.

At this point, it is what it is. He will be the coach and I won't have any affinity towards him. He can win games and that still won't change. Still confused how Kiffin gets flamed and Tosh gets to go back to his Alma mater he burned without much of a second thought.

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Maybe if he brings some talent with him from the Ducks via the portal the sour taste in your mouth (and mine) will be sweetened. Winning has a way of dispelling bad memories.

Whether or not one was for or against Tosh's candidacy, I believe we all want Cal to succeed. I have not been a Tosh fan for how he exited Cal. But more importantly, I have had concerns as I have not heard anything about how he is thought of within the coaching fraternity and his Xs and Os ability. Has he been riding Dan Lanning's coat tails? BTW, why was he a Co-DC and not the sole DC at Oregon? To use business analogy, does he have the ability to make the leap to being the CEO from a regional manager? My hope is people involved in the hiring process asked all the right questions and were satisfied with the answers. All I can say at this point is I hope that he is going to be successful because if this was the wrong decision, we will be going back to Pac 12 when the next realignment takes place.

Parkcity Bear said:

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Whether or not one was for or against Tosh's candidacy, I believe we all want Cal to succeed. I have not been a Tosh fan for how he exited Cal. But more importantly, I have had concerns as I have not heard anything about how he is thought of within the coaching fraternity and his Xs and Os ability. Has he been riding Dan Lanning's coat tails? BTW, why was he a Co-DC and not the sole DC at Oregon? To use business analogy, does he have the ability to make the leap to being the CEO from a regional manager? My hope is people involved in the hiring process asked all the right questions and were satisfied with the answers. All I can say at this point is I hope that he is going to be successful because if this was the wrong decision, we will be going back to Pac 12 when the next realignment takes place.

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I'm not worried about his X's and O's since he is now the head coach. His tasks are hiring, recruiting, leading and motivating. I am certain he will be better in all those aspects than Wilcox was and he has Ron Rivera backing him up and mentoring him. I do wish we had done this sooner, the ACC and our schedule will get tougher than these last two years and we now have the House Settlement to deal with, but staying pat was going to be ugly. Can't wait to see who will be on his staff and roster next year.

TonyTiger said:

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CalFan4Ever said:

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Can this be the official coping thread for those of us who don't like this?

Not only have I not forgiven what he did 15 years ago (can you even forgive someone who doesn't ask to be forgiven?) but I can't help but wonder the upside. Is the upside that we go to another holiday bowl and he leaves taking all our best recruits (but even worse this time with easier rules?) I'd rather have another 7-5 season than holiday bowl and crash out. I have no love for this hire.

At this point, it is what it is. He will be the coach and I won't have any affinity towards him. He can win games and that still won't change. Still confused how Kiffin gets flamed and Tosh gets to go back to his Alma mater he burned without much of a second thought.

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PS, by the way according to sports illustrated the boosters were 100% behind him. I wonder why they are and you're not? Are you smarter, recher and more valuable than them?

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I am not richer or smarter than any of the boosters. I simply have a better moral compass. I've been around long enough to know that winning isn't everything and that there are more important things than money and winning such as honor and integrity. I am so effing disappointed.

CalFan4Ever said:

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Can this be the official coping thread for those of us who don't like this?

Not only have I not forgiven what he did 15 years ago (can you even forgive someone who doesn't ask to be forgiven?) but I can't help but wonder the upside. Is the upside that we go to another holiday bowl and he leaves taking all our best recruits (but even worse this time with easier rules?) I'd rather have another 7-5 season than holiday bowl and crash out. I have no love for this hire.

At this point, it is what it is. He will be the coach and I won't have any affinity towards him. He can win games and that still won't change. Still confused how Kiffin gets flamed and Tosh gets to go back to his Alma mater he burned without much of a second thought.

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That class lost like 7 high profile recruits and kept two. Only one went to UW.

Something stank, and they smelled it, and it wasn't tosh.

StillNoStanfurdium said:

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CalFan4Ever said:

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Can this be the official coping thread for those of us who don't like this?

Not only have I not forgiven what he did 15 years ago (can you even forgive someone who doesn't ask to be forgiven?) but I can't help but wonder the upside. Is the upside that we go to another holiday bowl and he leaves taking all our best recruits (but even worse this time with easier rules?) I'd rather have another 7-5 season than holiday bowl and crash out. I have no love for this hire.

At this point, it is what it is. He will be the coach and I won't have any affinity towards him. He can win games and that still won't change. Still confused how Kiffin gets flamed and Tosh gets to go back to his Alma mater he burned without much of a second thought.

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If someone like Tedford or the Cal athletes that actually played under him as well as the major donors who fund our football program forgive and support him I honestly don't know what standing any random fan will has to be bear this kind of grudge. Not to mention that it's still possibly that in some kind of introductory press conference that Tosh goes actually address the past controversy and express an in-context public mea culpa.

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God I hope he doesn't. That class went from insane to meh in weeks. Only one guy followed Tosh. If he doesn't apologize for all the others that went to other schools, it would be very low integrity to appeal to the silly people.

Bobodeluxe said:

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I have it on good authority that the Berkeley Bears will win seven of the next five Natties!

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Perfect 7 out of 5 (vs Rice)

I haven't chimed in yet and it doesn't matter because Tosh is the guy, but I'm skeptical of the hire for a lot of the reasons hashed out here already, and not because of what happened in 2012.

We're hiring an ace recruiter in an era when bags of money recruit as well or better than personality. OK fine maybe that because we don't have bags of money. What about Xs and Os? I don't get the sense Lupoi's that kind of coach. Can he manage a team at the P4 level? Who will he hire under him? He's a DC with no head coaching experience. Basically Wilcox 2.0. Would we be considering him if he didn't play at Cal?

I'm glad RR is around for guidance and I hope my outlook proves to have been too pessimistic.

BerlinerBaer said:

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I haven't chimed in yet and it doesn't matter because Tosh is the guy, but I'm skeptical of the hire for a lot of the reasons hashed out here already, and not because of what happened in 2012.

We're hiring an ace recruiter in an era when bags of money recruit as well or better than personality. OK fine maybe that because we don't have bags of money. What about Xs and Os? I don't get the sense Lupoi's that kind of coach. Can he manage a team at the P4 level? Who will he hire under him? He's a DC with no head coaching experience. Basically Wilcox 2.0. Would we be considering him if he didn't play at Cal?

I'm glad RR is around for guidance and I hope my outlook proves to have been too pessimistic.

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There are similarities, but the difference between Tosh and Wilcox is that Tosh is smart, charismatic, extroverted, conniving, energetic, intense, cut throat, is comfortable in all kinds of different social environments all making him a great recruiter and really likes winning and hates losing. Wilcox is the opposite.

Agree that it will really depend on his staff, but I highly doubt he lets a Baldwin or Musgrave each get 3 years of producing sub #100 offenses.

I am cautiously optimistic, but the proof will be his staff and roster for next year (then of course the results).

HistoryBear said:

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TonyTiger said:

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CalFan4Ever said:

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Can this be the official coping thread for those of us who don't like this?

Not only have I not forgiven what he did 15 years ago (can you even forgive someone who doesn't ask to be forgiven?) but I can't help but wonder the upside. Is the upside that we go to another holiday bowl and he leaves taking all our best recruits (but even worse this time with easier rules?) I'd rather have another 7-5 season than holiday bowl and crash out. I have no love for this hire.

At this point, it is what it is. He will be the coach and I won't have any affinity towards him. He can win games and that still won't change. Still confused how Kiffin gets flamed and Tosh gets to go back to his Alma mater he burned without much of a second thought.

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PS, by the way according to sports illustrated the boosters were 100% behind him. I wonder why they are and you're not? Are you smarter, recher and more valuable than them?

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I am not richer or smarter than any of the boosters. I simply have a better moral compass. I've been around long enough to know that winning isn't everything and that there are more important things than money and winning such as honor and integrity. I am so effing disappointed.

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First of all, I respect your opinion. I, too, am disappointed in what Tosh did 14 years ago.

But, did he strangle somebody? Did he break into somebody's home and steal their things? No, he just acted unethically. Supposedly, he regrets what he did. Who here has never done something they regret? (I know nowadays we are supposed to say, "no regrets", but I, personally, have tons of them.)

Can you not forgive him for his transgression? If not, hey, that's your right. Again, respect to you and those who have similar opinions on this. For me, I will judge him on what he does going forward, with a fresh start.