Best halftime adjustment for a Cal football team in years.
Need an OC and DC
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Last: 18 hrs ago by 01Bear
Rolo, Gregory, McCann have more experience as coordinators.
I'm just disappointed in Tosh's response post game. He thinks the offensive coordinator and defensive coordinator were great and no adjustments need to be made. Makes me doubt Tosh as a head coach.
m2bear said:
He can't be this clueless... can he?
The whales hired a salesguy. Is what it is.
Take care of your Chicken
m2bear said:
I'm just disappointed in Tosh's response post game. He thinks the offensive coordinator and defensive coordinator were great and no adjustments need to be made. Makes me doubt Tosh as a head coach.
As I'm sure you know, what they say to the media may or may not represent their true thoughts and what they're going to be saying to the players this week. Seemed like he thought he should be projecting positivity to the public at large.
Also worth noting that Coach Lup seems like a better one-on-one communicator than he is a public speaker. I wouldn't even say his post-game statements were "coach speak". More like gobbledygook.
m2bear said:
He can't be this clueless... can he?
OMF-ing GOD!
Not good. At all. He's in fantasy land and/or totally delusional. Denial is a river he's floating on, sipping a Margarita!
Big C said:m2bear said:
I'm just disappointed in Tosh's response post game. He thinks the offensive coordinator and defensive coordinator were great and no adjustments need to be made. Makes me doubt Tosh as a head coach.
As I'm sure you know, what they say to the media may or may not represent their true thoughts and what they're going to be saying to the players this week. Seemed like he thought he should be projecting positivity to the public at large.
Also worth noting that Coach Lup seems like a better one-on-one communicator than he is a public speaker. I wouldn't even say his post-game statements were "coach speak". More like gobbledygook.
What would a good coach say after that debacle?
- Coach Saban would probably be pissed and say they played like crap and they won't win another game during the season if it's not fixed.
- Saban and good coaches would never say things are great and no adjustments need to be made.
JimSox said:upsetof86 said:
To the OP that's like saying your car runs great we just need a new transmission and set of breaks.
We got the "breaks" (110 yards in UCLA penalties), just not the "brakes" on their offense.
But to be serious, it is a touch early to give up on Tosh and the coaching staff. But it did seem curious that first time head coach brought in two first time coordinators. And the result certainly showed last night.
Yes of course I intended to type brakes. You think it is merely curious that a HC with no HC experience brought in a staff with little experience. And that combined, they clearly struggled. One game does not make a season but BC had his team ready to beat us on the road in the same amount of time. I think the headlines I'm reading today feature the word "blowout."
TandemBear said:m2bear said:
He can't be this clueless... can he?
OMF-ing GOD!
Not good. At all. He's in fantasy land and/or totally delusional. Denial is a river he's floating on, sipping a Margarita!
I really don't care what coaches say, frankly, but "Couldn't have asked for something better than this, an early sting to respond to..." as an opening statement was just...man. Something better to ask for would have been winning.
Well, pray for Tosh's improvement, folks. Because this is who we brung to the party and we're going have every dance with him for a long time. But hey, Madsen has improved - although some will argue that it's not at a fast enough trajectory. So, Tosh can as well. But yeah, Cal doesn't have three or four years for Tosh to figure it out, so improvement better come quick. It makes me wonder of Ron agreed to let Tosh hire an inexperienced OC and DC but insisted that Rolovich and Gregory also be hired to provide support.
Same ole Cal football, the whales lead us suffering idiots around by these bs "narratives" to hire empty suits. The Wilcox narrative for the return to defense wins championships and all the good ole boy connections and he just needs resources, which is now followed by the Tedford done me wrong it was always about talent Tosh not Tedford bs narrative. See you diehards in Syracuse.
Who's idea to hire these guys, Rivera or Tosh?
movielover said:
Who's idea to hire these guys, Rivera or Tosh?
Rhetorical jab at the "fanbase" or real question?
We have two experienced coordinators in Rolo and Gregory that have been delegated to position coaches. Tosh really needs to give them a more active role. First down calls barely gained a yard. Run into the middle or short swing passes got nothing, but due more to line and receivers losing leverage. Killed any rhythm and relied on JKS needing to bail us out on obvious passing downs.
Grrrrah76 said:
We have two experienced coordinators in Rolo and Gregory that have been delegated to position coaches. Tosh really needs to give them a more active role. First down calls barely gained a yard. Run into the middle or short swing passes got nothing, but due more to line and receivers losing leverage. Killed any rhythm and relied on JKS needing to bail us out on obvious passing downs.
I agree. Let Rolo and Gregory run the show till these guys learn how to be OC's and DC's.
They sound and look like deer in the headlights.
FTR, Offensive Pass Game Coordinator coach Pat McCann was the OC at Fresno State for two years, and was also the passing game coordinator at several stops. CalBears: "In 2023, the Fresno State offense ranked second in the Mountain West for passing offense and fifth in total offense...."
upsetof86 said:JimSox said:upsetof86 said:
To the OP that's like saying your car runs great we just need a new transmission and set of breaks.
We got the "breaks" (110 yards in UCLA penalties), just not the "brakes" on their offense.
But to be serious, it is a touch early to give up on Tosh and the coaching staff. But it did seem curious that first time head coach brought in two first time coordinators. And the result certainly showed last night.
Yes of course I intended to type brakes. You think it is merely curious that a HC with no HC experience brought in a staff with little experience. And that combined, they clearly struggled. One game does not make a season but BC had his team ready to beat us on the road in the same amount of time. I think the headlines I'm reading today feature the word "blowout."
Yes I know you intended to type "brakes." I just wanted to use some word play to point out the advantage we had in penalty yards. No disrespect meant.
Just watched the fourth quarter meltdown. All the confusion and disorganization that was apparent in the first half just metastasized after the three turnovers. Very troubling. This team may have the talent to get it together, despite the inexperienced coordinators, but I'll be pleasantly surprised if it does so right away. Maybe by the time of the Clemson game.
movielover said:
Tosh hired two greenhorn coordinators, and Rivera endorsed it. In fact, one coordinator was only the assistant position coach. Often a young first-time HC hires a graybeard to help guide the transition. Is Rolo the real OC?
When Tedford became HC he hired Bob Gregory as his DC, who had eight years as a DC at a lower level. To supplement that, JT brought veteran coach Bob Foster out of retirement. Foster was specifically brought in to add an "experienced sounding board to the new staff." Foster had previously been the HC at UC Davis and the DC at Oregon, where they served under Belotti. His task was more influential than being the linebacker coach. Foster also had experience dealing with the administration and faculty club, and was a master at breaking down film and motivation.
There is a critique in coaching, "He's never called a timeout".
Edit: Bob Gregory currently is coaching linebackers, and has served as a DC at five programs.
When Wilcox came in, many of us felt assurance that his coordinators were two former head coaches: Beau Baldwin (who turned out to be a bust) and Tim Deruyter. I fully anticipated that Tosh would also bring in experienced coordinators, not assistants to assistant position coaches in the NFL>
Agree with most about the lack of experience across the board and never supported the Tosh hiring. So many simply wanted a "man" instead of the wimp that many thought Wilcox was - well, you got him.
Bring back bottled beer and cigars at CMS. Should get us back in the Rose Bowl!
southseasbear said:movielover said:
Tosh hired two greenhorn coordinators, and Rivera endorsed it. In fact, one coordinator was only the assistant position coach. Often a young first-time HC hires a graybeard to help guide the transition. Is Rolo the real OC?
When Tedford became HC he hired Bob Gregory as his DC, who had eight years as a DC at a lower level. To supplement that, JT brought veteran coach Bob Foster out of retirement. Foster was specifically brought in to add an "experienced sounding board to the new staff." Foster had previously been the HC at UC Davis and the DC at Oregon, where they served under Belotti. His task was more influential than being the linebacker coach. Foster also had experience dealing with the administration and faculty club, and was a master at breaking down film and motivation.
There is a critique in coaching, "He's never called a timeout".
Edit: Bob Gregory currently is coaching linebackers, and has served as a DC at five programs.
When Wilcox came in, many of us felt assurance that his coordinators were two former head coaches: Beau Baldwin (who turned out to be a bust) and Tim Deruyter. I fully anticipated that Tosh would also bring in experienced coordinators, not assistants to assistant position coaches in the NFL>
Musgrave was also a disaster.
“My tastes are simple; I am easily satisfied with the best.” - Winston Churchill
m2bear said:
I'm just glad we got an assistant safety's coach from the Vikings to run our defense because he went to the same high school as Tosh.
Makes perfect sense.
Thanks Tosh.
Nailed it. I posted years ago critical of Wilcox making his Oregon teammate (Sirmon) DC. Now, we're getting that same type of favoritism. I was down with Tosh's hire, but looking like the same kind of disastrous decision making we saw from Wilcox.
To be fair we need to see 3-4-5 games before full conclusions can be drawn. First data point is NOT encouraging. But again, there is a theory here. Talent acquisition being the ying and yang. Unknown is
1) Is that true
2) Can these coordinators close on that talent
3) If they do can Cal RETAIN that talent? Because if I am a p4 coach I am looking over the wall at Madsen and seeing Cal as a GREAT place for Frosh to get weeded out and then I swoop in and outbid. Or put another way - do you think the defense is better if we had retained last years Linebacker's room? I sure do.
1) Is that true
2) Can these coordinators close on that talent
3) If they do can Cal RETAIN that talent? Because if I am a p4 coach I am looking over the wall at Madsen and seeing Cal as a GREAT place for Frosh to get weeded out and then I swoop in and outbid. Or put another way - do you think the defense is better if we had retained last years Linebacker's room? I sure do.
Take care of your Chicken
Those linebackers from last year, we have been told, didn't fit the new scheme (scam?).
socaltownie said:
To be fair we need to see 3-4-5 games before full conclusions can be drawn. First data point is NOT encouraging. But again, there is a theory here. Talent acquisition being the ying and yang. Unknown is
1) Is that true
2) Can these coordinators close on that talent
3) If they do can Cal RETAIN that talent? Because if I am a p4 coach I am looking over the wall at Madsen and seeing Cal as a GREAT place for Frosh to get weeded out and then I swoop in and outbid. Or put another way - do you think the defense is better if we had retained last years Linebacker's room? I sure do.
Every coach with money to spend in the portal is looking at the standout players on non-elite teams and making pitches like, "If you want to reach your potential and best position yourself for the "next level" then you need to be playing with other talented players on a higher-profile team."
BearSD said:socaltownie said:
To be fair we need to see 3-4-5 games before full conclusions can be drawn. First data point is NOT encouraging. But again, there is a theory here. Talent acquisition being the ying and yang. Unknown is
1) Is that true
2) Can these coordinators close on that talent
3) If they do can Cal RETAIN that talent? Because if I am a p4 coach I am looking over the wall at Madsen and seeing Cal as a GREAT place for Frosh to get weeded out and then I swoop in and outbid. Or put another way - do you think the defense is better if we had retained last years Linebacker's room? I sure do.
Every coach with money to spend in the portal is looking at the standout players on non-elite teams and making pitches like, "If you want to reach your potential and best position yourself for the "next level" then you need to be playing with other talented players on a higher-profile team."
So, you seem to be acknowledging that the Berkeley Bears are doomed?
I've come to the conclusion. Cal is going to have to score a lot of points to win games. The defense just isn't very good.
Scoring just 24 points is not going to cut it. As well, the defense giving up close to 50 points is flat out horrible.
Cal was blown out by 3 TD's (21 points). I hate hearing Cal was close in the 4th quarter so there is hope. Well, the football game is 60 minutes long... not 45- 50 minutes long.
I don't see anything in the OC's and DC's post game interviews that says to me... Wow, they did figure it out!
Go Bears!
Scoring just 24 points is not going to cut it. As well, the defense giving up close to 50 points is flat out horrible.
Cal was blown out by 3 TD's (21 points). I hate hearing Cal was close in the 4th quarter so there is hope. Well, the football game is 60 minutes long... not 45- 50 minutes long.
I don't see anything in the OC's and DC's post game interviews that says to me... Wow, they did figure it out!
Go Bears!
BearlyCareAnymore said:Strykur said:BigDaddy said:BearlyCareAnymore said:m2bear said:
I'm just glad we got an assistant safety's coach from the Vikings to run our defense because he went to the same high school as Tosh.
Makes perfect sense.
Thanks Tosh.
So, I'd really like an explanation on this because when some of us merely pointed out that inexperience of the staff, it wasn't just implied but specifically stated by people who claimed to know that those guys weren't the "real" coaches, but the "real" coaches were these massively experienced consultants. I called BS on that at the time and was pretty much condescendingly told I didn't know how things really worked. These are the real coaches and their lack of experience is readily apparent.
I actually raised an eyebrow at Rolovich's interview from a few weeks ago when he was asked about the offense and he said something like "Yeah, I mean it's their deal and I'm here if they need anything."
He's the QB coach on paper and as far as offense goes we are probably not looking to install the Run N' Shoot anyways
Totally agree, but as per usual when facts are inconvenient, a ludicrous fantasy narrative was promulgated that this was not the case. Hopefully it can be acknowledged now that the OC and DC are the actual OC and DC and not given the positions so they could recruit while the experienced coaches actually run the team. Basically all discussion of the staff's qualifications was shut down by this ridiculous story.
The idea that Rolovich was going to have a heavy hand in the offense was widely argued to placate those concerned about the staff's experience. And, BTW, JKS did not look tonight like he was improved.
Tosh wanted a pro set scheme which is attractive for recruiting and in retaining a very important player. That is what the OC knows and is putting into practice. Rolo knew that when he signed on. I would not minimize Rolo's work to just QBs. It seems like Rolo and co-coordinators are the guys implementing the entire offense while JS was the guy doing the cerebral work developing the offense. That said, JS is getting input from Rolo and the coordinators, and Rolo has duties as the Associate Head Coach which puts him one on one with Tosh to give his opinions on both sides of the ball. I think Tosh should think about having Rolo assist in the play calling.
JKS didn't look good because (1) he was constantly under pressure, which is an oline issue, and (2) was injured and could not push off one side.
Are they being paid coordinator money? Is it possible Tosh got more money, and less for assistants?
To me it seemed that UCLA kept us in the game with all their penalties, yet we didn't capitalize. I'm not sophisticated enough to know if the poor blocking on offense and complete lack of a pass rush on defense for Cal are the type of thing that can be fixed. On the other hand, UCLA will likely be able to clean up their penalty problems.
"I agree. Let Rolo and Gregory run the show till these guys learn how to be OC's and DC's."
So, a new Head Coach gets hired in December and puts together the staff he wants. Then, one game into his first season he has to change both coordinators (or at least their responsibilities)?!?
That would be a sign of an organization in chaos. I don't think we are at that point; at least I hope we're not.
So, a new Head Coach gets hired in December and puts together the staff he wants. Then, one game into his first season he has to change both coordinators (or at least their responsibilities)?!?
That would be a sign of an organization in chaos. I don't think we are at that point; at least I hope we're not.
Big C said:
"I agree. Let Rolo and Gregory run the show till these guys learn how to be OC's and DC's."
So, a new Head Coach gets hired in December and puts together the staff he wants. Then, one game into his first season he has to change both coordinators (or at least their responsibilities)?!?
That would be a sign of an organization in chaos. I don't think we are at that point; at least I hope we're not.
The organization was in chaos as soon as Tosh hired his two numbskull drinking middle school buddies as his coordinators. There's a reason those guys never got hired as coordinators before: they weren't ready. Promoting them into such important positions when they lacked the experience and wisdom just goes to show how poor a decision maker Tosh really is.
Anyone with an iota of common sense would've hired an experienced OC to complement Tosh's defensive expertise. Instead, he hired an assistant to an assistant to be his offensive lieutenant. Meanwhile, he hired another rookie to be his defensive lieutenant. While this latter move was a little more defensible, since Tosh is supposed to be a defensive expert, after all, hiring two rookie coordinators means Tosh will be that much less able to focus on the overall direction of the football team.
Tosh just doesn't seem to understand the urgency of the situation. Either that, or he severely overestimated his own abilities and that of his coordinators. Hopefully, the UCLA game provided enough of a shock to wake him up to the reality of the situation. He doesn't have time to fart around and let his coordinators learn on the job. He needs to replace them with experienced professionals who can then show the nominal coordinators how to do the jobs for which they were hired.
01Bear said:Big C said:
"I agree. Let Rolo and Gregory run the show till these guys learn how to be OC's and DC's."
So, a new Head Coach gets hired in December and puts together the staff he wants. Then, one game into his first season he has to change both coordinators (or at least their responsibilities)?!?
That would be a sign of an organization in chaos. I don't think we are at that point; at least I hope we're not.
The organization was in chaos as soon as Tosh hired his two numbskull drinking middle school buddies as his coordinators. There's a reason those guys never got hired as coordinators before: they weren't ready. Promoting them into such important positions when they lacked the experience and wisdom just goes to show how poor a decision maker Tosh really is.
Anyone with an iota of common sense would've hired an experienced OC to complement Tosh's defensive expertise. Instead, he hired an assistant to an assistant to be his offensive lieutenant. Meanwhile, he hired another rookie to be his defensive lieutenant. While this latter move was a little more defensible, since Tosh is supposed to be a defensive expert, after all, hiring two rookie coordinators means Tosh will be that much less able to focus on the overall direction of the football team.
Tosh just doesn't seem to understand the urgency of the situation. Either that, or he severely overestimated his own abilities and that of his coordinators. Hopefully, the UCLA game provided enough of a shock to wake him up to the reality of the situation. He doesn't have time to fart around and let his coordinators learn on the job. He needs to replace them with experienced professionals who can then show the nominal coordinators how to do the jobs for which they were hired.
That first sentence... wow. Can you explain what you meant by that and/or why you wrote it?
The puzzle there is that... a) Tosh doesn't drink... b) Hutchings attended De la Salle high school about a dozen or so years after Tosh... c) Tosh knows Somerville from having worked with him at Oregon
And... they're "numbskulls"? Really?!?
Big C said:01Bear said:Big C said:
"I agree. Let Rolo and Gregory run the show till these guys learn how to be OC's and DC's."
So, a new Head Coach gets hired in December and puts together the staff he wants. Then, one game into his first season he has to change both coordinators (or at least their responsibilities)?!?
That would be a sign of an organization in chaos. I don't think we are at that point; at least I hope we're not.
The organization was in chaos as soon as Tosh hired his two numbskull drinking middle school buddies as his coordinators. There's a reason those guys never got hired as coordinators before: they weren't ready. Promoting them into such important positions when they lacked the experience and wisdom just goes to show how poor a decision maker Tosh really is.
Anyone with an iota of common sense would've hired an experienced OC to complement Tosh's defensive expertise. Instead, he hired an assistant to an assistant to be his offensive lieutenant. Meanwhile, he hired another rookie to be his defensive lieutenant. While this latter move was a little more defensible, since Tosh is supposed to be a defensive expert, after all, hiring two rookie coordinators means Tosh will be that much less able to focus on the overall direction of the football team.
Tosh just doesn't seem to understand the urgency of the situation. Either that, or he severely overestimated his own abilities and that of his coordinators. Hopefully, the UCLA game provided enough of a shock to wake him up to the reality of the situation. He doesn't have time to fart around and let his coordinators learn on the job. He needs to replace them with experienced professionals who can then show the nominal coordinators how to do the jobs for which they were hired.
That first sentence... wow. Can you explain what you meant by that and/or why you wrote it?
The puzzle there is that... a) Tosh doesn't drink... b) Hutchings attended De la Salle high school about a dozen or so years after Tosh... c) Tosh knows Somerville from having worked with him at Oregon
And... they're "numbskulls"? Really?!?
It was a bit of hyperbole for little dramatic effect. But really, what difference is there in Tosh attending De La Salle by a dozen years before Hutchings and making him OC as a result versus having known him from his days at De La Salle? At the end of the day, Tosh hired someone who was not ready for the job of Cal's DC at a time when Cal needed someone who was ready to hit the ground running. The same applies to Somerville.
As for the numbskull comment, yes, they are. You cannot tell me that an OC who cannot figure out that 6 > 5 is not a numbskull. Yet, Somerville consistently had only five guys on the line when UCLA's defense showed six. Each time, that led to an unblocked defender running directly into the backfield and at JKS. Rather than getting caught out once and then using that to his advantage by scheming a draw play or screen pass, he had JKS run out of the pocket and try not to get killed. This is pure numbskullery.
On defense, Hutchings couldn't figure out how to stop UCLA's running game. Now this doesn't necessarily make him a numbskull. I'll admit that much. Cal had a hard time stopping the run last year, too. Back then, it had guys like Cade Uluave and Luke Ferrelli. This year's group of defenders (especially at LB) don't appear to be as good as last year's guys. Still, Cal's defense looked like it had not prepared to stop the run game, at all. It gave up 277 yards on the ground to UCLA! I know I only watched the game when it was live, but I don't remember Cal trying to stack the box with 7 or 8 defenders and making Nico and UCLA's receiving corps win the game. How was that not one of the main things that the defense worked on, given that UCLA was expected to be a running team this year?
So yes, the Cal OC and DC have both showed an utter lack of understanding the basics. Worse, they've been involved in organized football (and have even been paid to do so!) and still managed not to grasp the basics. In my book, that makes them numbskulls.
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