He's a defensive guy, not an offensive guy, and he's never recruited a player in his life. I don't see it, other than the fact that he's a Cal guy, and he's not Tedford. I don't want to replace the current infighting between the coach and the OC with a new conflict between a new coach and the DC. But I'm willing to be pursuaded.

by the time Cal gets around to seeing a chance to bring one of their own home, its going to be too late-don't worry about it.
And by the way: A Cal guy who is bright, articulate, and at 6-4 stands square with most recruits. Oh, and would a recruit like to see his Super Bowl ring? Or perhaps hear what it takes to play "in the league" from a guy who has coached the best or has been around the best? But the recruit is going to have be patient, because Ron really likes talking about his alma mater, because their isn't a subject he enjoys more. The parents will hear about the degree he earned, with no goofing off, no short cuts, nothing fast and loose. And when he talks and listens, he looks people straight in the eye, because that's how he was raised by his strong military father. And if you are worried about the staff, don't be: this is a guy who will bring in the best, not worrying about his own ego, and people who will want to work with him and for him.

Can he work for minimum wage? Cuz that's what we'll be paying ...

mbBear;430087 said:

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by the time Cal gets around to seeing a chance to bring one of their own home, its going to be too late-don't worry about it.
And by the way: A Cal guy who is bright, articulate, and at 6-4 stands square with most recruits. Oh, and would a recruit like to see his Super Bowl ring? Or perhaps hear what it takes to play "in the league" from a guy who has coached the best or has been around the best? But the recruit is going to have be patient, because Ron really likes talking about his alma mater, because their isn't a subject he enjoys more. The parents will hear about the degree he earned, with no goofing off, no short cuts, nothing fast and loose. And when he talks and listens, he looks people straight in the eye, because that's how he was raised by his strong military father. And if you are worried about the staff, don't be: this is a guy who will bring in the best, not worrying about his own ego, and people who will want to work with him and for him.

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That all sounds great (except for when you imply that somehow he's going to be a great coach because he's tall?!?) but how can you know how he will perform as a head coach? How could you possibly know that he will "bring in the best"?

I think Ron Rivera is a great guy and a great coach but there is no way you can promise any of this -- nor can Ron Rivera. And I doubt he would.

The point is probably moot anyway -- he is one of the hottest coordinators in the NFL and will probably get a shot to coach an NFL team sooner rather than later.

The last former Cal player/NFL guy that Cal hired without any head coaching experience was the biggest bust in the history of Cal football...Let's not even go there. Besides, JT isn't going anywhere.

the tall was only a reference to making a good impression as a recruiter, that was the overall question-maybe a little too poetic in my description? I have watched people meet Ron, that's where I was coming from.
"Bring the best" referred to making personnel decisions based on who he thinks can do the job, not ego driven decisions. The "best" is subjective sure.
I wasn't trying to promise anything-he has reached an incredibly high level in the football profession (one of 30 defensive coordinators), and being considered as a head coach possibility among an elite group...
If the criteria is head coaching experience, especially at the college level, then no, I can't counter that...

I do not care what side of the ball any new coach has expertise in. Can he recruit, can he hire a staff (and then let them coach, but hold accountable), can he motivate, does he have a plan and can he get the donors excited. Rivera has some interesting qualities and could be a good coach. I question his ability to hire a college coaching staff. He has been a life long pro. The games are different, and have different skill set requirements for the coaches.

Being a former Bear is great, but that does not mean he is the best candidate. Not gonna matter anyway, Cal ain't changing at least not this year. I want a change, but it looks like I will be disappointed. Auburn has a defensive HC in Chizik, but hired Gus Malzahn to run the offense. Cam Newton obviously is a stud (and possibly a hired gun as well) but the point is you need to hire the right staff and let them work.

Just because a guy played for Cal and is a Coach is absolutely no recommendation to be the next Head Coach. It scares the hellout of me when i read stuff like this. How about the best possible candidate. Did chip Kelly play for Oregon,did Pete play for SC. Forget this crazy idea-Please

maxer;430095 said:

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That all sounds great (except for when you imply that somehow he's going to be a great coach because he's tall?!?)

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You come to Cal or I CRUSH YOUR BONES!

I don't think there's any doubt that Rivera loves Cal and can wax poetic about his time here...so can Hardy Nickerson, Aaron Rodgers and Mike Silver. All indications is Rivera is a NFL coach not a college coach. Two different mind-sets here. Why would a guy who's spend over 20-years in the NFL as a player and coach want to go to the college level and have to deal with:
* NCAA practice restrictions,
* answering to an Athletic Director who's getting paid less than he would be,
* making sure his stars are going to class and making sure the rest of the coaches are ensuring the rest of the roster is attending class
* dealing with the various compliance regulations,
* trying to convince a 17-year old and his parents that this is the right place to play and go to school
* dealing with agents and hanger-on's
* dealing with alumni and their demands for speeches, fund-raising events and birthday party appearances

Son-of-California;430112 said:

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The last former Cal player/NFL guy that Cal hired without any head coaching experience was the biggest bust in the history of Cal football...Let's not even go there. Besides, JT isn't going anywhere.

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Did Kapp have any COACHING experience? Besides, the biggest bust was a former BYU player/NFL guy.

Tree Cutter;430150 said:

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I don't think there's any doubt that Rivera loves Cal and can wax poetic about his time here...so can Hardy Nickerson, Aaron Rodgers and Mike Silver. All indications is Rivera is a NFL coach not a college coach. Two different mind-sets here. Why would a guy who's spend over 20-years in the NFL as a player and coach want to go to the college level and have to deal with:
* NCAA practice restrictions,
* answering to an Athletic Director who's getting paid less than he would be,
* making sure his stars are going to class and making sure the rest of the coaches are ensuring the rest of the roster is attending class
* dealing with the various compliance regulations,
* trying to convince a 17-year old and his parents that this is the right place to play and go to school
* dealing with agents and hanger-on's
* dealing with alumni and their demands for speeches, fund-raising events and birthday party appearances

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How do you know he wouldn't? Plenty of "NFL guys" have been successful at the college level (Pete Carroll?). Rivera by all accounts loves Cal and that would be a strong motivator.

Son-of-California;430112 said:

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The last former Cal player/NFL guy that Cal hired without any head coaching experience was the biggest bust in the history of Cal football...Let's not even go there. Besides, JT isn't going anywhere.

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Being a little hard on Joe Kapp, aren't you? I think he only qualifies as a "big bust" if you thought he was going to be lights out as a HC. Maybe some of our homers thought he'd be great, but many people outside of Berkeley were perplexed by his hiring, as he not only did not have any head coaching experience, he had no coaching experience whatsoever. And, while he didn't turn out to be a very good coach, he certainly wasn't the worst HC we've ever had, either.

Rivera would be a good fit at Cal, but at this point the position is not open.

What I don't get is this post.

Who said anything about Ron Rivera or that Tedford is going to be fired?

Ain't gonna happen this year.

Tree Cutter;430150 said:

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I don't think there's any doubt that Rivera loves Cal and can wax poetic about his time here...so can Hardy Nickerson, Aaron Rodgers and Mike Silver. All indications is Rivera is a NFL coach not a college coach. Two different mind-sets here. Why would a guy who's spend over 20-years in the NFL as a player and coach want to go to the college level and have to deal with:
* NCAA practice restrictions,
* answering to an Athletic Director who's getting paid less than he would be,
* making sure his stars are going to class and making sure the rest of the coaches are ensuring the rest of the roster is attending class
* dealing with the various compliance regulations,
* trying to convince a 17-year old and his parents that this is the right place to play and go to school
* dealing with agents and hanger-on's
* dealing with alumni and their demands for speeches, fund-raising events and birthday party appearances

---

NFL coaches deal more with agents and hangers on than college coaches do. Every player in the NFL has an agent. That's only the case in college at a handful of schools.

Many pro coaches answer to GMs or team presidents who make less than they do. I'd guess that college coaches get a lot more autonomy than NFL coaches.

As for recruiting and dealing with college kids and etc, that's the crux of the question. If he really loves Cal then he may not want to be a college coach but may want to be Cal's coach. Sort of how guys like George Karl and Larry Brown wouldn't take a college basketball job at this point unless it was UNC.

calumnus;430153 said:

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How do you know he wouldn't? Plenty of "NFL guys" have been successful at the college level (Pete Carroll?). Rivera by all accounts loves Cal and that would be a strong motivator.

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We don't. I'm only speculating that as a career NFL player and coach, the college game doesn't appeal due to all the ancillary tasks that don't involve game planning. I like Rivera however, I'd prefer any new HC to have prior head coaching experience, only because they'll be much more familiar with managing an organization as the top executive.

Jeff82;430078 said:

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I don't want to replace the current infighting between the coach and the OC with a new conflict between a new coach and the DC.

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Maybe they won't have a conflict. After all, both can commiserate about being the DC of a team that lost the Super Bowl and then getting fired.

mbBear;430087 said:

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by the time Cal gets around to seeing a chance to bring one of their own home, its going to be too late-don't worry about it.
And by the way: A Cal guy who is bright, articulate, and at 6-4 stands square with most recruits. Oh, and would a recruit like to see his Super Bowl ring? Or perhaps hear what it takes to play "in the league" from a guy who has coached the best or has been around the best? But the recruit is going to have be patient, because Ron really likes talking about his alma mater, because their isn't a subject he enjoys more. The parents will hear about the degree he earned, with no goofing off, no short cuts, nothing fast and loose. And when he talks and listens, he looks people straight in the eye, because that's how he was raised by his strong military father. And if you are worried about the staff, don't be: this is a guy who will bring in the best, not worrying about his own ego, and people who will want to work with him and for him.

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Maybe Rivera can do it, maybe he can't. I'm just saying that it's speculative. Anything we do short of bringing in a coach who has had demonstrated success in a BCS conference school is a risk, which may at this point be worth taking, but a risk.

hanky1;430176 said:

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What I don't get is this post.

Who said anything about Ron Rivera or that Tedford is going to be fired?

Ain't gonna happen this year.

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I know there's not going to be a change right now, but Rivera's name comes up frequently as an alternative some posters would like to see. When I looked up his background, it puzzled me, since his background doesn't directly respond to the offense/QB problem which most people agree is the primary on-field difficulty.

It's probably moot right now but having met Ron a few times, you have to love his passion and people skills.

Sounds like a defensive version of Joe Kapp, except for the NFL coaching experience. As I remember, the Kapp experiment didn't work out very well.

SacCityBear;430359 said:

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Even that is a risk. See Michigan.

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And that is just one example.

waltwa;430129 said:

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Just because a guy played for Cal and is a Coach is absolutely no recommendation to be the next Head Coach. It scares the hellout of me when i read stuff like this. How about the best possible candidate. Did chip Kelly play for Oregon,did Pete play for SC. Forget this crazy idea-Please

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OTOH, not many people thought Pete Carroll was a very good hire in 2001. The most successful coaches are not always seen as "slam dunk" at the time of their hiring, no is there is any perfect resume that guarantees that a coach will succeed at a particular institution.

calumnus;430153 said:

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How do you know he wouldn't? Plenty of "NFL guys" have been successful at the college level (Pete Carroll?). Rivera by all accounts loves Cal and that would be a strong motivator.

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Pete Carroll had about ten years of college coaching experience (though none as an HC) before he moved on to the NFL. I don't know of any examples of guys who successfully transitioned from the NFL directly to a college head coaching position without ever having coached at the college level---though I'm not saying there aren't any.

Son-of-California;430112 said:

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The last former Cal player/NFL guy that Cal hired without any head coaching experience was the biggest bust in the history of Cal football...Let's not even go there. Besides, JT isn't going anywhere.

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Actually, in my mind the biggest bust was Roger Theder. But that's probably ancient history.

SacCityBear;430540 said:

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Do I really need to find more examples? The point was that no coaching hire is a sure thing, even when the coach has a history of success.

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No, I was agreeing with you. There are lots of examples of college coaches with a record of success who failed to duplicate that success when they moved on. Sorry I wasn't more clear.

Jeff82;430259 said:

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Maybe Rivera can do it, maybe he can't. I'm just saying that it's speculative. Anything we do short of bringing in a coach who has had demonstrated success in a BCS conference school is a risk, which may at this point be worth taking, but a risk.

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I follow LSU football because that's where our kids are located. Les Miles runs a defense oriented program with occasional offensive stars taking it to the next level. He would meet your criteria, however there are zero candidates that meet the requirement of demonstrable success at a school like Cal. Again looking at LSU and comparing
1. Cal is an academic institution, LSU and most of the SEC is not.
2. Cal has high almost Ivy League admissions standards, LSU is a 4 year community college.
3. Cal is impacted by state budget cuts, long time sports, like baseball are being eliminated. LSU is cutting dozens of professors but big time sports like Baseball and football are fully protected.
4. Cal has a limited local talent base, LSU is in the middle of a deep talent pool, supplying top prospects to LSU, Florida, Texas, and even USC.
5. Cal has a modest fan base (we do look good compard to Furd and SD State). LSU has a big time fan base, amazing considering the economic demographic differences.
6. Cal football is not a religious experience. LSU the coach is a 'football saviour'.

In terms of desirability, the Cal HC position likely ranks in the top 50. Considering that there are probably less than 20 succesfull, long term (4+ years) HCs in BCS conferences and to get that high a number you have to include coaches who have never won a conference championship, just had winning records. A highly successful BCS HC is not going to head to Cal unless he's been recently fired or blacklisted, AKA Mike Leach. That won't be a source for a new Cal head coach. Perhaps the best source of a new HC would be from a FCS school where the Cal position would likely be a step up.

I suspect Ron Rivera is not political enough to be successful as a HC in the NFL and most colleges. His ouster at Chicago demonstrated the. The Chargers hired him as a linebacker coach, mainly because he was available. He had just missed on a couple of head coach positions and coming in as a coordinator would make him a threat to the current HC. San Diego had a horrible defense to start the season, the HC, an offensive guru, sacrificed the defensive coordinator to save his job. Rivera was a temporary fix. Winning 11 straight games to close the regular season let him keep his job. He is in an odd position, SD got him for a bargain price, then promoted him on an interim basis, and being in "Cheap diego" means that he is likely not being paid a commensurate salary. I would ponder his loyalty to the NFL world; maybe the college world would look good to him.

calumnus;430151 said:

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Did Kapp have any COACHING experience? Besides, the biggest bust was a former BYU player/NFL guy.

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TorBear;430162 said:

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Being a little hard on Joe Kapp, aren't you? I think he only qualifies as a "big bust" if you thought he was going to be lights out as a HC. Maybe some of our homers thought he'd be great, but many people outside of Berkeley were perplexed by his hiring, as he not only did not have any head coaching experience, he had no coaching experience whatsoever. And, while he didn't turn out to be a very good coach, he certainly wasn't the worst HC we've ever had, either.

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Kapp came in without any coaching experience whatsoever, not even being a high school assistant, and immediately turned a loser (2-9) into a winner (7-4, better than our record this year and good enough that we should have gone to a bowl game). He was the lowest paid HC in the conference and had the lowest paid assistants along with very little support from an administration that did not want to have a winning football team.

In someways, he was successful, at least in creating more interest for the team (for the first time in decades, merchants had pro-football signs in their windows).

He inherited the talent from the previous staff where multiple key injuries and the implement of the run and shoot offense ruined the team. He had no understanding of what it took to coach and prepare a team to play. His only input was "the team that wants it more will win"...The fact that we went from 2-9 to 7-4 was dumb luck. The results of his influence started to show in each of the following years...until he was finally fired. His only redeeming qualities were that he loved Cal and he was able to win his final Big Game in a huge upset.

Son-of-California;430646 said:

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He inherited the talent from the previous staff where multiple key injuries and the implement of the run and shoot offense ruined the team. He had no understanding of what it took to coach and prepare a team to play. His only input was "the team that wants it more will win"...The fact that we went from 2-9 to 7-4 was dumb luck. The results of his influence started to show in each of the following years...until he was finally fired. His only redeeming qualities were that he loved Cal and he was able to win his final Big Game in a huge upset.

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The Run and Shoot didn't ruin the team, it was actually a brilliant move, 20 or 30 years ahead of its time--if only Gilbert hadn't gotten injured after that first game. Typical Cal....

calumnus;430658 said:

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The Run and Shoot didn't ruin the team, it was actually a brilliant move, 20 or 30 years ahead of its time--if only Gilbert hadn't gotten injured after that first game. Typical Cal....

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I forget who the opponent was in that first game, but there were quotes from them that said in essence: "You guy are going to score a lot of points thisyear."
WE could do a heck of a lot worse than implement the run and shoot. We could also do better IMHO.

GBMARIN;430670 said:

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I forget who the opponent was in that first game, but there were quotes from them that said in essence: "You guy are going to score a lot of points thisyear."
WE could do a heck of a lot worse than implement the run and shoot. We could also do better IMHO.

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I'm pretty sure it was TAMU...

Correct...I played on those teams. Maybe I worded it poorly. The ultimate success of the 2-9 team and the R-n-S offense would have been significantly different had Gilbert not gone down with a blown knee. We were beating aTm quite handily...in the 1st half. That O was ahead of the time. After a 3-8 1980 season Theder needed to make several changes to save his job. He fired several asst. coaches and brought in Mouse Davis to change the O. It ultimately failed and the O was switched back mid-season. Theder was fired after we went 2-9 and lost the Big Game. JK had little or nothing to do with the quick turn around. It was the talent he inherited that stepped up. He bumbled his way in, got credit for The Play, bumbled and 'unzipped' himself on the way out...Ron was a friend and teammate of mine. I have nothing against him. My point being, a former player with little or no coaching experience (head or college) has no business stepping in at this level.

Any move or non-move for that matter is a risk.

Part of taking that risk is understanding that by not undertaking the risk of make a change you risk that a coach will lost his team and sink the team to medicore/bad levels thus forcing a change.

That's why it's silly to say well if we get rid of A then we wcould end-up with another Holmoe, Gilbertson, Theder, etc. The difference is that those hires were made under different leadership and with an entirely different empahsis. It is possible to make a bad hire, but I those prior hires were made under the guise that Cal wasn't serious about football (i.e no commitent to new facilities and certainly not paying a coach anywhere near market value)

Whether people like it or not Cal is now a school that takes football seriously, because they have to in order to keep the athletic department afloat and clearly as Cal is already losing sports the Athletic Department cannot afford to take a 10K hit in attendance in football.

Fans is the Bay Area are not very tolerant for losing teams (except for the Warriors) and they're even less tolerant for losing college teams which are already marginalized by the surround professional sports.

Cal can ill afford to lapse back to the Holmoe era in term of attendance (~30,000k)

Fan bases are as rabid as the tradition that follows the team. Cal football is the oldest team in the Bay Area. The team needs to build a tradition and part of that is winning a pac-10 title or a national championship.

The other part is creating a "religious" type experience at a Cal game. I think the lack of tailgating space has always hurt Cal.

Tedford tried to insitute tradition when he first came to Cal with the Cal walk etc, but like anything in life the people dictate the tradition. I think the Athetic Department needs to be way more active in promoting Cal football. There needs to be a call in show. There needs to be broadcasts from Cal hotspots. There needs to be giveaways. Charge more for a jersey day and give kids little bear hats (I assuming there's no NCAA violation here, but if so that scratch the idea). Have public pep rallies in the same place. Rallies for the general public to meet and listen to the players/coaches during the week.

In general make the process more interactive :rant