calbear93;524615 said:
However, more businesses are leaving California than coming to California.
Willgonnabaight;524186 said:
wrong
BeggarEd;524220 said:
Don't let the sheer mass of California's size and population fool you into this perpetuated myth of prosperity. Furthermore, just because there is a lot of ingenuity (i.e. patents) coming from CA, that doesn't mean it's a "business-friendly" state.
There is a reason why so many LLCs are organized in states like Delaware, and the disproportionately high state tax rates in California have a lot to do with that.
ColoradoBear1;524269 said:
But if you are saying that CA trying to tax out of state purchases is anti business, that is dead wrong. By the way, Texas sent Amazon a bill for $269 million in uncollected sales tax revenue last year. All states are after Amazon, but I think it will really take federal law to make it stick.
drunkoski;524641 said:
yes because surely there are no shades of gray here.
NVBear78;524285 said:
The inmates in Sacramento are running the Asylum and have no clue about just how unfriendly this State is to business, particularly small business. And it is small business that producers the greatest numbers of jobs. No wonder our unemployment rate is even greater than the national average.
Now that Brown is back as Governor they are doubling down and seeking even more taxes, more overly restrictive and unhelpful environmental and other reglations while ignoring things like unfunded public employee pensions. Even Willie Brown wrote about the excessive wages and benefits for public employees in the SF Chronicle.
The politicians in Sacramento are foolish not to recognize that they are in competition with other states for jobs and business. As noted above California unemployment is already several points higher than the already incredibly high national average (thank you BO/Reid/Pelosi) and this is much more likely to get worse as harmfull bills like AB 32 phase in... legislation that does no measurable good for our state or the environment but further sabatoges our economy. There is a lot of bad science behind AB 32 and other job killing policies of CARB (http://sppiblog.org/news/faulty-science-behind-states-landmark-diesel-law).
I worry about the future of the golden (bear) state.
drunkoski;524476 said:
we've had net losses and if you don't count illegal immigration net losses of our populace as well. i have quite a few clients who have moved themselves and their businesses to nevada because of taxes. it's still a nice place to live and that by itself is going to retain a large percentage of businesses.
GB54;524502 said:
If you're in a business like biotech or high tech which relies a lot on intellectual and financial capital, then California is the place. If you are manufacturing a commodity, you're better off in other states. One of my clients told me what he saved on just his waste disposal and environmental costs on a move to Nevada and it was enough to make him profitable .
68great;524657 said:
So your friend does not care if his business makes anyone sick or degrades the wonderful environment of Nevada --- as long as he saves a few pennies on his "cost of goods sold" entry.
FingeroftheBear;524171 said:
Amazon should really shut up. I don't like paying taxes any more than anyone else but geez...a 10 year tax advantage over local stores? There is no free lunch and that's actually anti-competitive. Leveling the playing field would benefit local communities and merchants. Besides the fact people hate taxes why should Amazon and onliners out of state get a break?
SitkaBear;524658 said:
Then perhaps that is their major malfunction.
What type of idiot picks up and moves to another state simply because he feels that CA taxes are too high?
Really? You would have to be either morally bankrupt or an extreme idiot.
And I doubt not that these people characterize themself as True Christians.
SitkaBear;524667 said:
Says someone already retired and collecting Medicare and Social Security.
SitkaBear;524666 said:
I don't like either, but you can't rail against one without railing against the other. Especially when CEO's usually take home 50 to 100 times the pay of their average worker.
To think otherwise opens you up to being labelled as a hypocrite.
Golden One;524625 said:
I live in California because I choose to live here. California has a lot going for it, especially an incomparable climate, scenic beauty, and abundant natural resources. That doesn't change the fact that high taxes and excessive regulation have made the state less business friendly than most. Texas, on the other hand, has almost nothing going for it--it's hot and humid, flat and ugly, and offers little in the way of leisurely pursuits. On the other hand, it has no state income tax, far less regulation, and a much more friendly environment for business. As a result, it has a much lower unemployment rate than California, has a rapidly growing business presence, and is on a sound fiscal footing. None of that changes the fact that I'd rather live in California. But don't try to tell me that high taxes and stringent environmental regulations have made California great, when exactly the opposite is true.
sycasey;524635 said:
Is there a study that actually confirms this? It's a popular claim for conservative pundits to make, but I don't know that it's ever really been proven.
taxbear;524365 said:
But this is not an effort to impose a tax on Amazon. It's an effort to require Amazon to collect a tax from its California customers that the customers owe. Internet retailers with sufficient presence (under Constitutional standards) in California are required to collect this tax; the "affiliate law" is one that several states (NY being the most notable) have passed to establish that the use of affiliates provides a sufficient presence in the state to require the retailer to collect the tax. Amazon lost court challenges in NY, and now collects the NY tax.
calbear93;524691 said:
Here is a WSJ article. I also remember seeing a chart in NYT or LAT showing the job and business departures versus arrivals, with CA being on a negative trend.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704570704576275051374356340.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
dajo9;524696 said:
John Fund and the Wall Street Journal editorial page are notoriously inaccurate and biased.
lol.. the claim that conservative pundits like to make is backed up by hard evidence; as proof, I submit this conservative pundit making the claim.calbear93;524691 said:sycasey;524635 said:
Is there a study that actually confirms this? It's a popular claim for conservative pundits to make, but I don't know that it's ever really been proven.
Here is a WSJ article. I also remember seeing a chart in NYT or LAT showing the job and business departures versus arrivals, with CA being on a negative trend.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704570704576275051374356340.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
SitkaBear;524638 said:
California are supposed to be in huge financial trouble thanks to bloated governments, business-unfriendly regulations, and strong public sector unions.
BearyWhite;524702 said:
lol.. the claim that conservative pundits like to make is backed up by hard evidence; as proof, I submit this conservative pundit making the claim.
SitkaBear;524713 said:
Why don't you explain it to me yourself.
Ijust might get bored and read your industry fed propoganda and chew it to pieces.
Others have already beaten me to the punch.
Maybe you mean to reply to someone else. My view was simply that you were making sycasey's case by quoting yet another conservative pundit instead of the graphs you remember seeing somewhere.calbear93;524707 said:
So...your view is that CEOs and directors view CA in a positive light...just waiting for the right time to jump into adding more divisions or production in California? Granted it is only my experience, but my clients absolutely abhor the crazy labor laws and taxes in California. Maybe your experience is different, but I can only speak from my experience.
tommie317;524729 said:
calbear93, what are you waiting for? move your business out. California is sucking the life out of your business and moving your clients out of state.
socaltownie;524695 said:
For the win. Lets also add that Amazon VIGOROUSLY litigated against a state law that would have required them to turn over to the tax collection authorities information about purchasers so that the state could AUDIT individuals who owed the tax and claimed, on their state tax forms, that they did not.
Anyone who is posting that this tax is not "owed" is incorrect. If you buy from Amazon and do not declare the value of that and submit taxes on it you are technically violating the law.
calbear93;524716 said:
Geez, I guess you can't please everyone. The reason I linked to these in the first place was that, when I explained it myself, someone asked for studies or surveys that suggested California is not a business-friendly state or that jobs are leaving. Then when I do link to surveys and articles, you ask why I just don't explain it myself. Wow. Whatever. We can't change the inertia in California anyway. Its liberal government will remain what it is. And whatever you or I believe about how business friendly the state is, the corporations will make decisions based on what is in the best interest for the shareholders.
And quite honestly, I don't care what conservative or liberal pundits have to say about this issue. I am more convinced by my own experience with executives and directors. At least from my experience, these decision-makers do not view the business conditions in California in a positive light. Again, you may have had difference experience. And if so, I can understand why you believe what you believe.
Unit2Sucks;524753 said:
I would agree with you generally but there are plenty of exceptions to the rule, and it turns out that the exceptions have been quite good for California generally, and the bay area in particular. For example, Groupon recently setup shop here and has been expanding like crazy. Despite the regulatory climate, they want access to the talent that is only available here.
Also for what it's worth, I've seen more companies relocate operations based on labor and and other costs (including real estate expenses in particular) than everything else combined. Naturally it depends on the type of business and their operations but even if the government completely got out of the way of business, there would be plenty of economic impediments to expanding operations in California.
calbear93;524756 said:
However, it is the blue collar workers who are paid by the hour who will suffer from over-regulation. If I were a CEO/COO and had to decide where to locate a manufacturing plant, and I see all of the additional costs and regulations associated with locating or expanding in California, I would probably choose another state. That doesn't mean I think any less of California as a place to live. It just comes down to business justification.
BearyWhite;524725 said:
Maybe you mean to reply to someone else. My view was simply that you were making sycasey's case by quoting yet another conservative pundit instead of the graphs you remember seeing somewhere.
Unit2Sucks;524760 said:
people who operate retail chains hate operating in California - it's hard to make money given how much crap you have to deal with.
chitownbear;524656 said:
Every time I hear the terms "business-unfriendly" or "anti-business," I know they're uttered by yet another greedy capitalist hoping to evade any social responsibility whatsoever.
FingeroftheBear;524287 said:
That's the bottom line, there's no free lunch.
Any of you lads that went to UC should know better. Tax moneys build and established the great UC system...which in turn help build the great California economy via research and development.
You want the world's largest wine exporter and the nation's produce leader...you create the UCD ag and viticulture programs. You want engineers and Silicon Valley, you pay for engineering school like Cal, UCSD, Irvine. You want top rate biotech, you build and fund UCSF. You want world class infrastructure that moves the whole freakin' mess along faster, you create the world's best civil engineering program.
You want the world's 8th largest economy...you create it and that costs money. NONE OF THIS IS FREE. There is no free lunch.
Corporations aren't going to leave this...they need this.
On that note I'm sick and tired of big corps like Amazon trying to skirt paying taxes that supports economic growth, that they benefit from...jobs create consumers, like duh.
Screw Amazon.
