Everyone makes it seem like he tried to miss them.. it was two kicks, in one game, its no big deal..

I saw the Fresno kicker, and I would much rather have GT than that guy who missed a gimmie, when GT nailed his right down the middle.... no love there..

I also don't really remember a long kickoff return all game long which was a huge reason for getting rid of alamar was field position, so I am missing the point where Tedford doesn't care about special teams, when they didn't let up one big punt return or kickoff return all day and GT nailed his only FG attempt...

GranadaHillsBear;559855 said:

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Perhaps you might have a shred of a point if this pathetic performance was an anomaly. However, as the thread title shrewdly asks, when will Tedford take ST seriously, we have a systemic problem that has been observed week after week, year after year. As it is, these type of threads are completely legitimate to ask given our sub sub sub par performance on ST over the years.

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My argument is that JT has attempted to address the issue, as recently as last season. I'd also argue that special teams were moderately better last season (they certainly weren't any worse than under Alamar), and though the first game of this season wasn't too impressive from a kicking standpoint, it was one game in windy conditions. Personally, I think it's still a bit too early to pass judgment on Genyk's tenure as ST coach. If we consistently see more efforts like we did on Saturday, then I'll agree with calls for a change.

...look this kid can flat out punt. He either had a bad day or got caught by the swirling eddies at the Stick, etc.

However, Georgio needs to go...he has shown no consistency or improvement since last year and we need to trot someone else out for at least a shot!

Which starter would you recommend do the placekicking? Kendricks? Schwartz? Maynard?

GranadaHillsBear;559855 said:

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Perhaps you might have a shred of a point if this pathetic performance was an anomaly. However, as the thread title shrewdly asks, when will Tedford take ST seriously, we have a systemic problem that has been observed week after week, year after year. As it is, these type of threads are completely legitimate to ask given our sub sub sub par performance on ST over the years.

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what pathetic performance? What was the average starting point of an FSU drive after a kickoff? How many TDs were scored on a punt or kickoff return? You are having a fit over two PATs that were f'd up and some squib punts. Coverage was fine and we hit our one FG. Special Teams didn't give up any points (they just failed to score 2). How is that pathetic? It was the first game of the year. Take a chill pill.

The starting point of FSU drives would have been better for us if Tevecchio had a leg worth his scholarship.

Cal84;559541 said:

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You realize that we have spent scholies on PKs, right? In fact we are using up two scholarships right now on PKs - neither of which get on the field on Saturdays.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but Tedford is only giving out scholarships to kickers after they win the job by being marginally better than even worse kickers. What he needs to do is to offer scholarships to HS kicking prospects.

BoaltBear09;559705 said:

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No big deal? Is he not the only Cal kicker to have ever had two consecutive PATs blocked? He is the worst place kicker in the history of Cal football. Tedford needs to wake up to that fact. He should have recruited a decent kicker by now. If we lose games because of ST, as much as I will blame ST, I will blame Tedford more for letting this happen.

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He is not the worst...

Brache was worse. Brache hit the goalpost like 4 times in one game.

Optimistic Bear;560007 said:

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Everyone makes it seem like he tried to miss them.. it was two kicks, in one game, its no big deal..

I saw the Fresno kicker, and I would much rather have GT than that guy who missed a gimmie, when GT nailed his right down the middle.... no love there..

I also don't really remember a long kickoff return all game long which was a huge reason for getting rid of alamar was field position, so I am missing the point where Tedford doesn't care about special teams, when they didn't let up one big punt return or kickoff return all day and GT nailed his only FG attempt...

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You make it seem like we are picking on a guy for missing two attempts.

I cant speak for everyone, but I am sure that almost everyone on the board sees that this is NOT a unique thing. When was the last time that ST at Cal were even ACCEPTABLE? Not even when Jackson was returning every punt for a TD was the ST acceptable.

This is not a game in a vacuum as you seem to claim.

IF ST was EVER reasonable, it could be claimed that this was a fluke. But ST has been a bad joke at Cal almost as long as Tedford has been the coach.

LethalFang;560428 said:

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but Tedford is only giving out scholarships to kickers after they win the job by being marginally better than even worse kickers. What he needs to do is to offer scholarships to HS kicking prospects.

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Kickers and Fullbacks are kind of the "show up and it's yours" scholarships at Cal.

So far the Fullback thing has turned out pretty well...



Oddly, Tedford has NO problem cruising the WORLD to find a punter. A PK, though... who needs that? Not Cal or Boise St! That's for sure.

Phantomfan;560434 said:

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You make it seem like we are picking on a guy for missing two attempts.

I cant speak for everyone, but I am sure that almost everyone on the board sees that this is NOT a unique thing. When was the last time that ST at Cal were even ACCEPTABLE? Not even when Jackson was returning every punt for a TD was the ST acceptable.

This is not a game in a vacuum as you seem to claim.

IF ST was EVER reasonable, it could be claimed that this was a fluke. But ST has been a bad joke at Cal almost as long as Tedford has been the coach.

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Well, you're wrong about one thing. Special teams were really strong in 2006 and 2007 (and even in 2005, starting immediately after the Mo Drew Game), especially in terms of coverage.

Since then...not so much.

But the blocked kicks aside, special teams were really good on Saturday. We gave up 18 yards per kick return, which is fantastic. We gave up less than 5 yards per punt return, which is also fantastic (although the net punting average of 33 is not so hot).

grandmastapoop;560462 said:

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Well, you're wrong about one thing. Special teams were really strong in 2006 and 2007 (and even in 2005, starting immediately after the Mo Drew Game), especially in terms of coverage.

Since then...not so much.

But the blocked kicks aside, special teams were really good on Saturday. We gave up 18 yards per kick return, which is fantastic. We gave up less than 5 yards per punt return, which is also fantastic (although the net punting average of 33 is not so hot).

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OK, so if we take the kicker and punter out of it, the special teams were good? I agree the coverage units were good/very good(incidentally I thought the whole team tackled really well, a huge improvement), but Anger was bad and GT was absolutely awful. Suggesting that a unit was really good as long as we remove the two most important parts is pretty thin.

alarsuel;560478 said:

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OK, so if we take the kicker and punter out of it, the special teams were good? I agree the coverage units were good/very good(incidentally I thought the whole team tackled really well, a huge improvement), but Anger was bad and GT was absolutely awful. Suggesting that a unit was really good as long as we remove the two most important parts is pretty thin.

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Quite the assumption - that the two most important parts are the kickers. I think tackling is much more important. That argument aside...

Although the occasional Anger shank drives me nuts, he's still not someone we need to be worried about going forward.

Tavecchio has struggled with consistency on his field goals throughout his career, but never extra points. And at least one of those Saturday was because of a complete breakdown on the line. So Tavecchio wasn't as bad as people want to make him out to be.

The kickers won't be as bad as they were Saturday. They both had bad to mediocre days. But they are capable of better. Kick coverage, on the other hand, is something that our teams seem to have either had or not had. And this team looks to have it.

Thus, going forward, I am optimistic about special teams.

I still got to ask. Where and when do the kickers and punter's practice their craft? And also with who. You need nearly half a football field to effectively practice this "art."

Given the constraints of our practice facilities (and I'm not talking just this year), is poor kicking just something we should expect?

grandmastapoop;560462 said:

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Well, you're wrong about one thing. Special teams were really strong in 2006 and 2007 (and even in 2005, starting immediately after the Mo Drew Game), especially in terms of coverage.

Since then...not so much.

But the blocked kicks aside, special teams were really good on Saturday. We gave up 18 yards per kick return, which is fantastic. We gave up less than 5 yards per punt return, which is also fantastic (although the net punting average of 33 is not so hot).

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gmp makes an important note though...our coverage units last year were terrible with teams starting at the 40 yard line many many times....so just the fact our coverage team did a good job is quite a bit of progress so you can't say our all aspects of ST sucked...they didn't

Cal_Fan2;560536 said:

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gmp makes an important note though...our coverage units last year were terrible with teams starting at the 40 yard line many many times....so just the fact our coverage team did a good job is quite a bit of progress so you can't say our all aspects of ST sucked...they didn't

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I don't think kick off or punt returns were particularly memorable

GB54;560546 said:

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I don't think kick off or punt returns were particularly memorable

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I thought Edmonds did a good job on kick offs but my point was about our coverage which was atrocious last year....Saturday they did a pretty good job with no long returns if I remember correctly...I'd rather have a stellar coverage team so they have a longer field...

Just to be clear I am not saying GT is the best kicked in the Pac-12, or a superstar kicker, I was just defending him, because I felt the criticism was a little over the top, because overall I didn't think he was as bad as everyone here has commented on. And in fact after the first two missed Extra points he looked quite good even nailing I believe around a 40 yarder down the middle in a tough place to kick field goals.

I do however believe GT has improved. His distance has improved on kickoffs, and they seem to get more height so they aren't line drives. And I couldn't really remember Fresno starting past the 30 or 35 yard line on Saturday which was a big issue years back, and makes the opposing offense have to go more yards, which helps our defense.

I just think it isn't a correct statement to say we don't care about special teams or there it isn't a priority. We did tackle really well, and we had some first string guys going all out and making big hits, which makes me think JT wants it to be one of our strengths.

I think Anger missed some punts, but that isn't coaching fault, I think he will be solid all year, and I would bet good money GT hits one into the endzone if not consistent into the endzone next week in Colorado.

I wish he were more consistent, and he does seem to get a little rattled, but he isn't a garbage kicker, and when you look at some of the issues other teams in Pac-12 have at kicker like a UCLA, or USC, then I am more than happy to have GT.

I said it before and i will say it again. ST's are never any good unless the Head Coach decides to make it a priority and i don't care who the Ass't coach is.

I don' t believe a Head Coach should be the O Coordinator more than 3 years after starting a job and i will give him 4 years as a D coordinator. However I think that when the Head Coach is the ST Coordinator it actually improves the program because in all cases the ST's get the attention they deserve and that phase of the game does not take away the attention of the HC from his other duties.

I agree that our punt formation, that Genyk deploys, is screwing up Anger. I'd change that formation back to the more standard one and protect the middle. The rugby punts are just pathetic if used on a continual basis.

As for various other suggestions on special teams, I think JT has addressed much of the concern by deploying many starters on the kick off unit. Obviously we need a better kick offs, but we've beaten that to death.

Optimistic Bear;560566 said:

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I think Anger missed some punts, but that isn't coaching fault....

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Doesn't the ncoaching staff call the "rugby" punts? Only a coach afraid of his ability to protect calls for a rugby punt. And since the vast majority of BA's difficulties over the past two seasons have come on rugy punts, it seems to me that we should be far more concerned over Genyk than BA. I'd simply develop a scheme to protect him (that's a coach's job -- if Cal can't punt-protect against FSU we have major problems) and let him boom it away.

drunkoski;560594 said:

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tedford said they told him to do the rugby punts because fresno was going all out for the punt block. which is kind of ridiculous. though anger shanks punts from regular formations anyway.

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If it means getting rugby punts, every opponent will go "all out" every time, every week. BA shanks once in a while but (as his averages last season attest), he gets it right the vast majority of the time when allowed to blast away.

grandmastapoop;560462 said:

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We gave up 18 yards per kick return, which is fantastic.

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I think we only gave up 18 yards per kick return because the kicks were short to begin with - shorter field to cover and shorter return as a result.

BoaltBear09;560621 said:

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I think we only gave up 18 yards per kick return because the kicks were short to begin with - shorter field to cover and shorter return as a result.

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That didn't help us in 2009 when the kicks were short and the coverage still sucked.

winemakerbear;560296 said:

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what pathetic performance? What was the average starting point of an FSU drive after a kickoff? How many TDs were scored on a punt or kickoff return? You are having a fit over two PATs that were f'd up and some squib punts. Coverage was fine and we hit our one FG. Special Teams didn't give up any points (they just failed to score 2). How is that pathetic? It was the first game of the year. Take a chill pill.

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At the risk of repeating myself, this has been going on for years and is not just some anomaly you think we're overreacting to.

Phantomfan;560431 said:

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He is not the worst...

Brache was worse. Brache hit the goalpost like 4 times in one game.

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That's pretty hard to do--impressive in a flawed kind of way.

Are you kidding me?


I dont care what the symptom on the play is... because the problem is Tedford. Musical chairs with coaches, and ST is STILL unacceptable. A whole new group of players... A whole new stable of coaches, and same old problems... Only Tedford is the same.

I hope at some point our ST stops being so silly.

One point would have been nice right now.