calumnus;618228 said:

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Bridgford is at 40%

You guys keep making a great case for our starter not being as good as the rest of the Pac-12 QBs, but the problem is Bridgford has not done better when he is in. You can make all the excuses in the world, but he hasn't completed passes--which is supposed to be his strength. He has had trouble taking snaps.

Now, I fully agree that if he had been our starter from Day 1 it would be a different story, but he hasn't been. Or if he even had more real game experience even as the #2, he would likely be doing much better--and I'd agree.THAT has been JT's failing, not playing Bridgford more earlier (I think duel QBs made/make sense). However, saying we should now bench Maynard and start Bridgford just does not make sense.

Moreover, it wouldn't be fair to Bridgford to make him the starter against OSU and potentially have him be "the reason we didn't go to a bowl game" (much like people somehow still blame Riley for us losing all those games in 2007 when he was only the QB in one of them, OSU). I am all for playing Bridgford a lot more, even equally as duel--QBs and certainly bring him in at the slightest hint that Maynard is struggling, but I think he has to play better before he is the starter. We aren't playing completely for next season yet--and you can still get him needed experience and then give him more if he is successful, without putting the remainder of the season on his shoulders from the opening kickoff.

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You are trying to compare a 40% completion rate under unequal circumstances and with a very small sampling of attempts.

What percentage of ZM's passes were in bitter cold and wet conditions.

But IMO the big problem with your approach is that you fail to mention the Elephant in the room = how many INT's has AB thrown.
That is where Cal has lost games.

Another stat: bridgford's completion percentage to the other team is 0%

tommie317;618390 said:

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Another stat: bridgford's completion percentage to the other team is 0%

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Oregon had at least 2 dropped interceptions. Not to mention the fumbled Center-QB exchanges. I wouldn't hang my hat on that stat.

UCBerkGrad;618526 said:

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Oregon had at least 2 dropped interceptions. Not to mention the fumbled Center-QB exchanges. I wouldn't hang my hat on that stat.

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I'm not hanging my hat on that, I'm just showing the ridiculous examples that Maynard supporters are hanging on their hat on Bridgford's completion percentage is 40% in such a small sample size.

Additionally, center-qb exchanges isn't about decision-making ability or accuracy, its practice and familiarity and weather.

tommie317;618536 said:

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I'm not hanging my hat on that, I'm just showing the ridiculous examples that Maynard supporters are hanging on their hat on Bridgford's completion percentage is 40% in such a small sample size.

Additionally, center-qb exchanges isn't about decision-making ability or accuracy, its practice and familiarity and weather.

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I agree...as I posted before, AB wasn't fumbling snaps in practice so you have to chalk that up to the things you mentioned.....but ZM was throwing interceptions in practice, quite a few, so you can chalk that up to his skill set.. I'd like to see AB get more snaps too but at this point, ZM really is the best guy to start against OSU and if we win they game, we'll see what happens.... overall, the guy who is at fault is JT anyway since he refuses to have a backup QB worth a damn

AB has had enough time to take a snap from under center. You can make the case that it's a timing issue, but it's not rocket science. The guy hands you the ball. If you are playing QB at Cal, you take the handoff - I don't care if there's a goddamn hurricane outside. WEATHER IS NOT AN EXCUSE IN FOOTBALL. Even football players will acknowledge this.

AB was most likely just nervous. Thinking a few steps too far ahead, like a receiver who tries to run before he catches the ball. The sample size is too small to dismiss his performance as anything other than that - but again, WEATHER IS NOT AN EXCUSE IN FOOTBALL.

atticus;618542 said:

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AB has had enough time to take a snap from under center. You can make the case that it's a timing issue, but it's not rocket science. The guy hands you the ball. If you are playing QB at Cal, you take the handoff - I don't care if there's a goddamn hurricane outside. WEATHER IS NOT AN EXCUSE IN FOOTBALL. Even football players will acknowledge this.

AB was most likely just nervous. Thinking a few steps too far ahead, like a receiver who tries to run before he catches the ball. The sample size is too small to dismiss his performance as anything other than that - but again, WEATHER IS NOT AN EXCUSE IN FOOTBALL.

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he had no problems taking snaps vs. oregon so i don't think the issue itself is problematic unless it happens again. I do think he coming out cold (as in not able to warm up taking snaps) in the wsu game vs. knowing he would be going in next in the oregon game.

drunkoski;618546 said:

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yup. he was clearly nervous. which is a little disconcerting considering his time in the program.

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C'mon Drunk....time in the program and practice is NOT the same as real game experience....in anything in life, you can practice all you want but going into anything new under stressful conditions will elicit some anxiety...only experience and confidence gets rid of that....even Carson Palmer said he was nervous in his first game for the Raiders and he is obviously a seasoned QB... it was a new environment, different conditions than he was used to....any normal person has some degree of trepidation....

drunkoski;618558 said:

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understood, but other teams have backups come in and not crap their pants on a regular basis.

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Blame JT....I do, besides, it fits in well with your JT model......:rollinglaugh:

Cal_Fan2;618552 said:

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C'mon Drunk....time in the program and practice is NOT the same as real game experience....in anything in life, you can practice all you want but going into anything new under stressful conditions will elicit some anxiety...only experience and confidence gets rid of that....even Carson Palmer said he was nervous in his first game for the Raiders and he is obviously a seasoned QB... it was a new environment, different conditions than he was used to....any normal person has some degree of trepidation....

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Of course, that is why you get him PT as the back-up and bring him in relief, so he gets comfortable--you don't name him the starter with little PT. Riley as a redshirt frosh in his first start (due to injury) with little previous PT started out shaky, then played really well to rally us back, but then made a mental mistake in a high pressure situation that has had Cal fans insulting him all through his Cal career and until this day.

If you bring Rodgers along as a back-up at first, why wouldn't you bring any other QB along that way unless you are forced to do otherwise by injury? This either/or, all or nothing approach to the position is what keeps getting us into this problem in the first place:

Quote:

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“We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.”--Albert Einstein

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When the choice is not clear, play both until the choice is clear, or just keep playing both if that gives us an advantage. Tedford's job is win football games at Cal, not develop another QB for the NFL (though that would be a nice byproduct).

atticus;618542 said:

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AB has had enough time to take a snap from under center. You can make the case that it's a timing issue, but it's not rocket science. The guy hands you the ball. If you are playing QB at Cal, you take the handoff - I don't care if there's a goddamn hurricane outside. WEATHER IS NOT AN EXCUSE IN FOOTBALL. Even football players will acknowledge this.

AB was most likely just nervous. Thinking a few steps too far ahead, like a receiver who tries to run before he catches the ball. The sample size is too small to dismiss his performance as anything other than that - but again, WEATHER IS NOT AN EXCUSE IN FOOTBALL.

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I wonder if it's something more mundane like ZM being left-handed and AB being right.

freshfunk;618608 said:

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I wonder if it's something more mundane like ZM being left-handed and AB being right.

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Pawlaski on TV alludes that it might be the center's fault because of the way the ball was fumbled (although being a QB, he is biased). I believe he also mentioned the righty/lefty thing as well.

Personally both are factors including the rain and also AB's rushed in to the game without doing some practice snaps with Galas. Also, when Adcock came in (his usual practice center), there were no problems.

GivemTheAxe;618387 said:

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You are trying to compare a 40% completion rate under unequal circumstances and with a very small sampling of attempts.

What percentage of ZM's passes were in bitter cold and wet conditions.

But IMO the big problem with your approach is that you fail to mention the Elephant in the room = how many INT's has AB thrown.
That is where Cal has lost games.

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Longshore threw 26 interceptions over the 2006 and 2007 seasons. Most consider him to be the second best QB Tedford has brought to Cal. Interceptions are factored into the QB rating. Maynard's rating right now is 122, Bridgford's is 89. You can say Bridgford performed badly under bad conditions, which is fine, I am not saying he is a bad QB, far from it, I am just saying he needs to perform well at some point before you just make him the starter and that hasn't happened yet. I'd like to see him get that chance. As for Maynard's interceptions, yes, you put Bridgford in for Maynard in the SC game or the UCLA after the 2nd or 3rd pick (or if he just looks shaky), but calling for Maynard to be benched citing his interceptions after a game where he lead us to victory and threw no interceptions (in what you admit were adverse conditions) is not timely. Again, my position is start Maynard but say you will also play Bridgford.

Bridgeford looked wooden, just like Zach does: just their personalities, I guess.

Bridgeford did not look like the next coming of Barkley or Luck. I hope there is a Chosen One in that stable of elite QB's that Cal has waiting in the wings.

By the way, let's thank the gods that WE are not experiencing the worst scandal in college football history that Penn State is engulfed in.... Just keeping things in perspective!

calumnus;618638 said:

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Longshore threw 26 interceptions over the 2006 and 2007 seasons. Most consider him to be the second best QB Tedford has brought to Cal. Interceptions are factored into the QB rating. Maynard's rating right now is 122, Bridgford's is 89. You can say Bridgford performed badly under bad conditions, which is fine, I am not saying he is a bad QB, far from it, I am just saying he needs to perform well at some point before you just make him the starter and that hasn't happened yet. I'd like to see him get that chance. As for Maynard's interceptions, yes, you put Bridgford in for Maynard in the SC game or the UCLA after the 2nd or 3rd pick (or if he just looks shaky), but calling for Maynard to be benched citing his interceptions after a game where he lead us to victory and threw no interceptions (in what you admit were adverse conditions) is not timely. Again, my position is start Maynard but say you will also play Bridgford.

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Maynard was named starter before he needed to prove himself on the field. Why can't Bridgford get a similar benefit of a doubt? Sounds like a double standard to me.

tommie317;618651 said:

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Maynard was named starter before he needed to prove himself on the field. Why can't Bridgford get a similar benefit of a doubt? Sounds like a double standard to me.

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Right on brother.

IMO competition between QB's in practice is intended to predict who would perform better in the games. The ultimate test is whether the QB can perform in real game experience. Once a QB screws up in a game, the Coach can decide if he made a mistake in choosing the wrong starting QB.

It seems to me that by keeping ZM in after so many screw ups, JT refuses to admit that he himself might have made a mistake in deciding to start ZM.

tommie317;618651 said:

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Maynard was named starter before he needed to prove himself on the field. Why can't Bridgford get a similar benefit of a doubt? Sounds like a double standard to me.

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Because you do not correct a mistake by repeating it. As Einstein said, you don't fix a problem using the same thinking that created the problem. Moreover, Tedford's job is to win football games, not be "fair." This isn't AYSO.

I think Tedford should play both Maynard and Bridgford in different styles because I think that will make it difficult for teams to prepare for us [U]and[/U] will give Bridgford an opportunity to gain valuable experience and [U]prove[/U] himself in game situations. Not for Bridgford's sake, but in order to win now and in the future.

I would like nothing better than for Bridgford to come in and tear it up and never come out. I think giving him an opportunity to show what he can do makes sense for the team. I just think calling for him to be the [U]starter[/U] in the OSU game is not supportable by anything we have seen so far and benching Maynard after a game where he did fairly well would not be good for the team. Start Maynard, but say you will play Bridgford and then do so, even if Maynard is just having trouble moving the team, but especially if he throws a couple picks. If Maynard isn't getting it done, give Bridgford his shot.

68great;618722 said:

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Right on brother.

IMO competition between QB's in practice is intended to predict who would perform better in the games. The ultimate test is whether the QB can perform in real game experience. Once a QB screws up in a game, the Coach can decide if he made a mistake in choosing the wrong starting QB.

It seems to me that by keeping ZM in after so many screw ups, JT refuses to admit that he himself might have made a mistake in deciding to start ZM.

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Picking ZM may have been a mistake, but you cannot go back to the beginning of the season and start over with AB to find out. You can only go forward from where we are. ZM has a QB rating of 122 and is coming off a decent game. AB has an 89 QB rating and looked flustered in our last outing. And yes, a big factor in that is that Bridgford does not have as much game experience, which is a Catch-22, but that is reality. These are not patsies coming up for AB to get his feet wet, these are all really big games. Expecting that Tedford would bench Maynard in favor Bridgford after that last game is nuts. The most we can hope for is that Tedford is giving Bridgford lots of first team reps in practice and will be quick to bring him in if Maynard isn't getting it done.

calumnus;618769 said:

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Picking ZM may have been a mistake, but you cannot go back to the beginning of the season and start over with AB to find out. You can only go forward from where we are. ZM has a QB rating of 122 and is coming off a decent game. AB has an 89 QB rating and looked flustered in our last outing. And yes, a big factor in that is that Bridgford does not have as much game experience, which is a Catch-22, but that is reality. These are not patsies coming up for AB to get his feet wet, these are all really big games. Expecting that Tedford would bench Maynard in favor Bridgford after that last game is nuts. The most we can hope for is that Tedford is giving Bridgford lots of first team reps in practice and will be quick to bring him in if Maynard isn't getting it done.

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The question you have to ask youself is not "Do you feel lucky, punk"
But is "Is it more likely tht ZM's tendency to throw INT's more of a harm than AB's inexperience.
I would start ZM vs. OSU unles and until he throws one (maybe 2 INT) then AB. If we win the OSU game, I would be likely to put in AB for a large part of the remaining games.

At a minimum i would not waste time hoping that ZM will get better with more experience. We have seen his maximum potential and it is not good enough.

calumnus;618769 said:

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Picking ZM may have been a mistake, but you cannot go back to the beginning of the season and start over with AB to find out. You can only go forward from where we are. ZM has a QB rating of 122 and is coming off a decent game. AB has an 89 QB rating and looked flustered in our last outing. And yes, a big factor in that is that Bridgford does not have as much game experience, which is a Catch-22, but that is reality. These are not patsies coming up for AB to get his feet wet, these are all really big games. Expecting that Tedford would bench Maynard in favor Bridgford after that last game is nuts. The most we can hope for is that Tedford is giving Bridgford lots of first team reps in practice and will be quick to bring him in if Maynard isn't getting it done.

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QB Rating is so insignificant based on the same sample playing situations he was put in. If so, Keenan Allen would be our best bet for QB because his QB rating is higher.

The Catch-22 is Tedford's own doing. He not only makes the choices but controls when those choices can be made. He can stop it at any time by giving bridgford some meaningful series (USC, UCLA, much earlier on in Oregon, Utah and WSU games). THis is not the only week we've been talking about this. It's been going on for at least a few weeks. I guess if we talk about it every week, eventually the discussion will be moot.

But we've seen how Maynard has done in bigger games and you accept that's the best we got?

One more thing, besides lack of game experience, I really want to know from Tedford why bridgeford is not playing. mobility? it's more of a plus than something u can subtract. What is holding AB back that Tedford has publicly acknowledged, besides playing time which is his own doing?

tommie317;618801 said:

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One more thing, besides lack of game experience, I really want to know from Tedford why bridgeford is not playing. mobility? it's more of a plus than something u can subtract. What is holding AB back that Tedford has publicly acknowledged, besides playing time which is his own doing?

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Well..someone told me that Coach Tedford..um..er..doesn't like you..and it's your fault..?

calalumnus,<br /><br />think we're mostly in agreement. not sure bridgford should be starting right away (given readiness questions since JT hasn't put him in for a meaningful amount of time yet), but have a very, very, very short leash on ZM. like 1 interception or a few skyballs.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">Haashole;619228 said:</div><hr>calalumnus,<br /><br />think we're mostly in agreement. not sure bridgford should be starting right away (given readiness questions since JT hasn't put him in for a meaningful amount of time yet), but have a very, very, very short leash on ZM. like 1 interception or a few skyballs.<hr></blockquote><br /><br />It doesn't have to be a "benching" if Maynard is looking shaky and is not moving the ball (because of his play or something the defense is doing), just send Bridgford in for a series or two and see how he does while you coach up Maynard and prepare him to go back in if Bridgford isn't getting it done. Make use of both quarterbacks to help us win. Stay with what is working until it isn't working anymore, but if it isn't working, try something different.

its a shame, start of 3rd qtr sc game was perfect opportunity. If JT didn't do it there, doubt he does it for any reason except injury.

Any word on how Bridgford is looking in practice this week, or if he's getting more reps with the 1s? Hope he's more prepared for the OSU game and actually gets some meaningful game time. We're going to need him to step up for the Big Game and ASU.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">OskiMD;619778 said:</div><hr>Any word on how Bridgford is looking in practice this week, or if he's getting more reps with the 1s? Hope he's more prepared for the OSU game and actually gets some meaningful game time. We're going to need him to step up for the Big Game and ASU.<hr></blockquote><br /><br />If we win Saturday we secure a bowl birth. After that we should be working in Bridgford and many other players who will be central next year, especially candidates for the Mike position at ILB, which is as important on D as QB is on O. At least we should do this in AZ on 11/26.