<b><i>*CORRECTION: 12 STARTERS ON '04, '06 TEAMS WERE JUCO RECRUITS.<br /></i></b><br />Correlation is NOT causation, but there is so much TALENT in the JuCos here in NorCal and Tedford has chosen to ignore them lately. <br /><br />Why we went away from this strategy, I don't know. Having some kids who are ready to play right away because they are ready for the physical demands of D-1 is an advantage! Our two Super Bowl champions from JuCo kids, for Pete's sake.<br /><br /><b>[U]<br />2004 (7 JC starters, 1 JC specialist) – 10-2 overall, 7-1 conference[/U]</b><br /><br /><b>QB - Aaron Rodgers (JC)<br />HB - J.J. Arrington (JC)</b><br />FB - Chris Manderino<br />WR - Geoff McArthur<br />WR - Chase Lyman<br /><b>TE – Garrett Cross (JC)</b><br />LT – Andrew Cameron<br />LG - Jonathan Giesel<br />C – Marvin Philip<br />RG – Aaron Merz<br />RT – Ryan O’Callaghan<br /><br /><b>DE – Ryan Riddle (JC)</b><br />DT – Lorenzo Alexander<br />DT – Brandon Mebane<br />DE – Tom Sverchek<br /><b>OLB – Francis Blay-Miezah (JC)</b><br /><b>ILB - Joe Maningo (JC)</b><br />OLB – Wendell Hunter<br />CB – Harrison Smith<br />CB – Daymeion Hughes<br />FS – Ryan Gutierrez <br /><b>ROV – Matt Giordano (JC)</b><br /><br />K - Tom Schneider<br /><b>P - David Lonie (JC)</b><br />LS – L.P. Ladouceur<br /><br /><br /><b>[U]2006 (5 JC starters) – 10-3 overall, 7-2 conference[/U]</b><br /><br />QB - Nate Longshore<br />HB - Marshawn Lynch<br />WR - DeSean Jackson<br />WR – Robert Jordan<br /><b>WR - LaVelle Hawkins (JC)</b><br />TE - Craig Stevens<br />LT – Andrew Cameron<br />LG – Erik Robertson <br />C – Alex Mack<br />RG – Noris Malele<br /><b>RT – Mike Gibson (JC)</b><br /><br />DE – Abu Ma’afala<br />DT – Matthew Malele<br />DT – Brandon Mebane<br /><b>DE – Nu’u Tafisi (JC)<br />OLB – Mickey Pimentel (JC)<br />ILB - Desmond Bishop (JC)</b><br />OLB – Worrell Williams<br />CB – Daymeion Hughes<br />CB – Syd’Quan Thompson<br />FS - Bernard Hicks<br />ROV – Brandon Hampton<br /><br />K - Tom Schneider<br />P - Andrew Larsen<br />LS – Nick Sundberg<br /><br /><br /><b>[U]2011 (0 JC starters) – 5-4 overall, 2-4 conference[/U]</b><br /><br />QB - Zach Maynard<br />HB - Isi Sofele<br />FB - Will Kapp<br />WR - Keenan Allen<br />WR - Marvin Jones<br />TE - Anthony Miller<br />LT - Mitchell Schwartz<br />LG - Brian Schwenke<br />C - Dominic Galas<br />RG - Justin Cheadle<br />RT - Matt Summers-Gavin<br /><br />DE - Ernest Owusu<br />DT - Aaron Tipoti<br />DE - Trevor Guyton<br />OLB - Chris McCain<br />ILB - D.J. Holt<br />ILB - Mychal Kendricks<br />OLB - David Wilkerson<br />CB - Steve Williams<br />CB - Marc Anthony<br />FS - Sean Cattouse<br />SS - D.J. Campbell<br /><br />K – Giorgio Tavecchio<br />P – Bryan Anger<br />LS – Matt Rios

<blockquote><div class="name-said">FingeroftheBear;619894 said:</div><hr>Agree...bring it!<hr></blockquote><br /><br />We have mined a little but they don't start: CJ Anderson, Matt Williams, Coleman Edmond, Ryan Davis, Mike Manuel, etc.

That's nothing compared to the way we used to go to College of the Canyons, CCSF, Mt. Sac, etc. ESPECIALLY CCSF. Is Rush not a Tedford fan anymore?

I certainly would be looking for a couple of TE's who can block...

Srjc always has some nice olinemen tedford should check em out

Forget the tight ends - go for OTs.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">CGB2813;619905 said:</div><hr>That's nothing compared to the way we used to go to College of the Canyons, CCSF, Mt. Sac, etc. ESPECIALLY CCSF. Is Rush not a Tedford fan anymore?<hr></blockquote><br /><br />Its not that Rush isn't a big Tedford fan, tedford hasnt been a much of a fan of the juco ranks. CCSF and CSM are both jucos that are in our backyard, where we don't recruit as often as we should. Mt. Sac as well. Those 3 Jucos, produce some great talent year in and year out. Bruce Irvin was just at Mt.Sac just over a season ago. Now hes's with west virginia averaging a sack every 10.5 snaps.

California has the best JC football in the country. The California JC system is designed to get kids into UC and CSU. Something like a third of Cal grads (and half of UCLA grads) started at a JC. Most California JC players are full qualifiers for Cal. Our JC grad rate is better than our 4 year grad rate. You can bring in 2 JC players for every one 4 year player and you bring in two that are more developed and more experienced which increases your odds of finding stars considerably. Scholarships for in-state tuition helps balance the AD budget. Less travel expense for recruiting.<br /><br />One key is getting to the teams and making sure the players take the classes that will make them UC eligible. Another key is having schemes that are simple enough that a kid coming out of JC can play in them right away. Oregon is currently the best at this.<br /><br />We need to take advantage while we can though, with California's budget problems and the attacks on football at Cal (which brings in tons of money), it seems it is only a matter of time before California tax-payer support of JC football will be questioned.

Excellent point, but please also keep in mind that several JC recruits didn't pan out as well as we thought:<br /><br />- Joe Ayoob<br />- Rulon Davis<br /><br />and the others who have already been named.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">ultramantaro;619941 said:</div><hr>Excellent point, but please also keep in mind that several JC recruits didn't pan out as well as we thought:<br /><br />- Joe Ayoob<br />- Rulon Davis<br /><br />and the others who have already been named.<hr></blockquote><br /><br />Rulon Davis was pretty darn good by senior year. Also forgotten who did great was a CCSF guy, Jonathan Makonnen.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">ultramantaro;619941 said:</div><hr>Excellent point, but please also keep in mind that several JC recruits didn't pan out as well as we thought:<br /><br />- Joe Ayoob<br />- Rulon Davis<br /><br />and the others who have already been named.<hr></blockquote><br /><br />They were starters, which means they were better than most of the four year scholarship players or shored up a position. I thought Rulon was really good, but every year he played was shortened by injury. <br /><br />One advantage of JC players is you can take twice as many as 4 year players, so not every one needs to pan out.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">ultramantaro;619941 said:</div><hr>Excellent point, but please also keep in mind that several JC recruits didn't pan out as well as we thought:<br /><br />- Joe Ayoob<br />- Rulon Davis<br /><br />and the others who have already been named.<hr></blockquote><br /><br />Right, and for every HS guy we signed that panned out, there are 4-5 HS guys who never saw the field. It works both ways.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">calumnus;619949 said:</div><hr>They were starters, which means they were better than most of the four year scholarship players or shored up a position. I thought Rulon was really good, but every year he played was shortened by injury. <hr></blockquote><br /><br />Yeah, Rulon was good when he could stay on the field.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">CalReason;620792 said:</div><hr>I disagree with any conclusions drawn from the JC list for different reasons than you. <br /><br />Nobody really knows how much/little Cal is recruiting players from the JC ranks. And even if we did, it could be that there are less worthy prospects the last handful of years in the JC ranks; maybe JT doesn't see any prospects he likes, or the ones he does and attempts to recruit choose to go elsewhere, etc. <br /><br />The lack of JC players making an impact for Cal has little to do with their lack of success. JC players usually are used to fill holes that have been left by recruiting classes. Finding a JC QB for this year and next would have been nice...<hr></blockquote><br /><br />I think we should move beyond "filling holes" with JC players and instead make them a significant part of the base. Instead of taking 20 4 year players players each year you could take something like 15 and 10 (basically two JC players for every one 4 year player you give up).

CalReason;620792 said:

---

I disagree with any conclusions drawn from the JC list for different reasons than you.

Nobody really knows how much/little Cal is recruiting players from the JC ranks. And even if we did, it could be that there are less worthy prospects the last handful of years in the JC ranks; maybe JT doesn't see any prospects he likes, or the ones he does and attempts to recruit choose to go elsewhere, etc.

The lack of JC players making an impact for Cal has little to do with their lack of success. JC players usually are used to fill holes that have been left by recruiting classes. Finding a JC QB for this year and next would have been nice...

---

Thats the stereotype I think fans should get over. KSU was ranked as high as #4 in the nation, a team that is traditionally built off of JC players. Both starting corners were JC kids from CCSF last season. One had a pick 6 off of a pass to Justin Blackmon, the other was a Thorpe Award Finalists with 7 ints on the season. With all the worry thats been going on about all the top prospects committing elsewhere, I think the title of this Thread says it all. "Mine the JCs!"

I agree that a JC is probably worth maximizing in a program. I do not think you can underestimate the importance of experience. And JCs get 1 or 2 more years of experience under their belt (likely playing football against men rather than boys). Importantly, I think in a position like QB they could be very valuable... you could have your current QB in place while his replacement is working the JC circuit.

The recent JC recruits just haven't been as good as the Cross, Bishop, Rodgers era. The staff has to do a better job evaluating the talent.


2011 CJA, Matt Williams
2010 Edmond
2009. Ryan Davis, Markish Jones, Meadows, Moncrease, Price.
2008 Yancy, Tucker, Nabuife
2007 Devin Bishop, Skylar Curran, Alex Cook
--------------------
2006 Rulon Davis, Mike Gibson, Andrew Larson, Mark Gray
2005 Ayoob, Des. Bishop, Hawkins, Pimentel, Tafisi
2004 Deemer, Lonie, Justin Johnson
2003 Arrington, Blay-Meziah, Cross, Rodgers, Lucas Everett, Maningo, Riddle, Giordano

Darby;841909544 said:

---

The recent JC recruits just haven't been as good as the Cross, Bishop, Rodgers era. The staff has to do a better job evaluating the talent.


2011 CJA, Matt Williams
2010 Edmond
2009. Ryan Davis, Markish Jones, Meadows, Moncrease, Price.
2008 Yancy, Tucker, Nabuife
2007 Devin Bishop, Skylar Curran, Alex Cook
--------------------
2006 Rulon Davis, Mike Gibson, Andrew Larson, Mark Gray
2005 Ayoob, Des. Bishop, Hawkins, Pimentel, Tafisi
2004 Deemer, Lonie, Justin Johnson
2003 Arrington, Blay-Meziah, Cross, Rodgers, Lucas Everett, Maningo, Riddle, Giordano

---

devin bishop was a solid player in 07, verran tucker made it pro, also had a game winner for KC. not to mention his acrobatic catches he made vs SC. Tucker probably would've been alot better off had he blueshirted, but Tedford wanted him on the field that season, while Tucker expected to blueshirt. Ryan Davis and meadows were hype from the start, i can point out a few JC LB prospects we couldve recruited that year. Edmond was quoted as being the fastest man on the roster, decent returner, no love as WR. Moncrease had some absolute decleating hits as a special teamer, also was known for his thunderous hits during practice but was overshadowed by Conte/Hill/cattouse.CJA is expected to have a good enough season to get drafted this year, and Matt Williams blueshirted. From all reports that passed my ears, Matt was a monster in practice last year. Overall i agree, the staff does need to evaluate better but the talent at the JC is definitely there. We recruited JCs heavier in the past (03-06) compared to recent years (07- present). It seems the decline in the trend has somewhat effected our win/ loss ratio.

When Gerald Bowman, the S from Pierce CC that SC took from us, starts blowing up this year, I will revive this thread.

The coaching staff keeps a very close eye on the JCs..don't fool yourself. As someone mentioned, many JC players do not take UC required courses and therefore do not have the appropriate class status should they even want to enter (thus you often see them have to take summer school, etc) JCs have notoriously low graduation (AA) rates generally (LBCC has about a 30% rate in the general population) and I doubt football players do any better. Coach Tedford and staff have advised several recruits that I know to actually attend JC. Coach Tedford has close allegiances to several coaches and JCs (Cerritos comes to mind), and as past history shows, honors the fact that players can come in and "fill holes" (which sounds demeaning) and contribute (sounds better) immediately. Having 20 games of college experience under your belt in similar pro-style systems does help. Ayoob might be a good example of how it can go wrong, but there are several others who have done well. Do they get a Cal degree? I don't know. My opinion is that with our recruiting getting much, much better in the past few years, Coach Tedford is putting his apples in the "four year' cart, hoping that players spending 4 years at Cal can be more worthwhile both academically and on the field in general in the long term. Most of the JC players that I have followed from my high school do not take rigorous enough schedules to make it into the UC, and further if they do, find the transition to DI a great leap both socially and physically. The Cal coaching staff monitors more JC players than you might be aware of in my opinion, but there are trade-offs.

I think Tedford decided that he wanted to commit to the NFL in several ways.
He wanted to use NFL coaches, NFL schemes and he wanted to develop a track record of getting his players into the NFL where many ended up having successful careers.

Here's the theory part: In order to that, he had to teach complicated schemes that take at least 2 years to learn. So he probably wanted players that were going to be eligible longer than that. If true, there-in lies the two edged sword of his plan. He may have traded one strength of the program (JCs) for another strength (NFL pipeline). I don't know if this makes any sense but it could explain the recent de-emphasizing of the JCs.

heartofthebear;841909606 said:

---

I think Tedford decided that he wanted to commit to the NFL in several ways.
He wanted to use NFL coaches, NFL schemes and he wanted to develop a track record of getting his players into the NFL where many ended up having successful careers.

Here's the theory part: In order to that, he had to teach complicated schemes that take at least 2 years to learn. So he probably wanted players that were going to be eligible longer than that. If true, there-in lies the two edged sword of his plan. He may have traded one strength of the program (JCs) for another strength (NFL pipeline). I don't know if this makes any sense but it could explain the recent de-emphasizing of the JCs.

---

I think it is simpler than that....when JT came to Cal, recruiting was much much tougher after the Holmoe years, in fact, near impossible. Sure Holmoe got some good players but after that 1 win season, JT needed to fill the pipeline and do it quickly to compete. So he was forced to take more JC recruits out of need and partial desperation. After Cal became more successful, he could take the majority from high school kids since he had a bit of depth and success to fall back on.

72CalBear;841909605 said:

---

...Having 20 games of college experience under your belt in similar pro-style systems does help. Ayoob might be a good example of how it can go wrong, but there are several others who have done well....

---

Ayoob needed to blue shirt for a year to learn the system. In his first year at CCSF he took a light load which allowed him to work out with the team without losing a year of eligibility. Not everyone is a quick study (as Joe Roth and Aaron Rodgers were) but need a little more time to get up to speed. Sometimes, slow and steady wins the race . . . if one has the time to develop.

72CalBear;841909605 said:

---

The coaching staff keeps a very close eye on the JCs..don't fool yourself. As someone mentioned, many JC players do not take UC required courses and therefore do not have the appropriate class status should they even want to enter (thus you often see them have to take summer school, etc) JCs have notoriously low graduation (AA) rates generally (LBCC has about a 30% rate in the general population) and I doubt football players do any better. Coach Tedford and staff have advised several recruits that I know to actually attend JC. Coach Tedford has close allegiances to several coaches and JCs (Cerritos comes to mind), and as past history shows, honors the fact that players can come in and "fill holes" (which sounds demeaning) and contribute (sounds better) immediately. Having 20 games of college experience under your belt in similar pro-style systems does help. Ayoob might be a good example of how it can go wrong, but there are several others who have done well. Do they get a Cal degree? I don't know. My opinion is that with our recruiting getting much, much better in the past few years, Coach Tedford is putting his apples in the "four year' cart, hoping that players spending 4 years at Cal can be more worthwhile both academically and on the field in general in the long term. Most of the JC players that I have followed from my high school do not take rigorous enough schedules to make it into the UC, and further if they do, find the transition to DI a great leap both socially and physically. The Cal coaching staff monitors more JC players than you might be aware of in my opinion, but there are trade-offs.

---

I see no all pac-10 JC guys from 2007-2010. A couple solid contributors and one NFL guy in Tucker. If the staff is following JC's closely I don't see the results.

The first 1/3 of the 2013 class looks a lot like JT's first few recruiting classes. He would be wise to find some JC guys who can balance out the class since it is clear there will not be a stampede of 4 star HS recruits this year.

Assuming he can win 9 games and right the ship that will leave a lot of open scholly slots for the 2015 class for higher upside HS recruits.

goldenjax;841909549 said:

---

Overall i agree, the staff does need to evaluate better but the talent at the JC is definitely there. We recruited JCs heavier in the past (03-06) compared to recent years (07- present). It seems the decline in the trend has somewhat effected our win/ loss ratio.

---

Will there be a better JC player in the Pac this year than CJA?

In the meantime, I'm not sure that the talent at the JC level is definitely there. At least, talent with grades and the right credits to be eligible. KSU is a bad standard - their academic standards are terrible. I doubt that one of their JC guys could have gotten into Cal let alone stayed here. Or have the wanta to do the work.

Several years ago, the NCAA raised the HS academic bar considerably. Some cried racism, but it appears that the kids ignored the apologists and bore down. Those kids are now getting 4 year rides. I wonder if this has reduced the number of kids in JC who would be Cal-recruitable candidates.

we could really use the DE Sina from San Mateo JC since we missed out on our top DL/DE targets due to (imho) poor recruiting ability of Howard and the D staff. Kid looks like a beast and BYU is closing in on him per another site.
It looks like we are also not involved with most of the top LB recruits either.

Sina is a monster. Cal could easily close the deal with him if they really wanted to. BYU is showing him the most love right now along with. U.of Maryland who is going hard after the trio from San Mateo.

Definitely wouldn't hurt to look at or attempt to recruit more JC kids, its worked in the past, and I dont see a reason why it wouldn't again with teams like Kansas State in the top 5 who feed on JC players.
5 of tonight's touchdowns against our bears came from former JC players.
John White - LA Harbor College (2)
Kelvin York - Fullerton College (1)
Reggie Dunn - Compton Community College (2)
and
Moe Lee- Palomar College; was doing an excellent job in coverage for the utes.

What does that say? JCs develop talents better than Tedford?

No, not at all, but that there is alot of talent at that level of football that is often overlooked and was a huge part of Tedford's glory years.

goldenjax;841988669 said:

---

No, not at all, but that there is alot of talent at that level of football that is often overlooked and was a huge part of Tedford's glory years.

---

I want me some glory hole!

lol