<blockquote><div class="name-said">6bear6;624731 said:</div><hr>Can you tell us what area you studied? We still won't know who you are.<hr></blockquote><br /><br />Masters in Architecture.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">burritos;624755 said:</div><hr>Are you sure it wasn't Cal Tech they were talking about? <br /><br />It's amazing that despite their consistent top rankings year after year, they are never included in the conversation of elite universities.<hr></blockquote><br /><br />They did not confuse my undergraduate degree with Cal Tech. The dean took me aside and spoke to me personally.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">Number 031343;624787 said:</div><hr>They did not confuse my undergraduate degree with Cal Tech. The dean took me aside and spoke to me personally.<hr></blockquote><br /><br />I take it they knew that Cal = California = UC Berkeley = Cal-Berkeley = Berkeley = UCB?

<blockquote><div class="name-said">pingpong2;624801 said:</div><hr>I take it they knew that Cal = California = UC Berkeley = Cal-Berkeley = Berkeley = UCB?<hr></blockquote><br /><br />Absolutely. My, my. Surely this can't be evidence of self doubt and confusion. Do we not fully appreciate the power of our academic motherland? Surely you don't believe east coast graduate school deans don't know who we are. <br /><br />In east coast academic jargon Cal is known as "Berkeley". They asked me about undergraduates from "Berkeley".<br /><br />I say old lad (or old person, or old whatever), your question depressing. Tell me it's not true. Surely you do not believe Cal is chopped liver. I sometimes think Cal undergrads underrate themselves. Don't go there!

It's not just the east coast. It's that way too in the Midwest and very strongly that way internationally. I seriously think that some people shoot themselves in the foot when they say they are Cal grads. "Cal grad" is a term that is understood in the Bay Area generally and outside the Bay Area really only in the sports field (and for half of those people they don't associate it with Berkeley). You say that you are a "Cal" grad during cocktail hour while mingling with a bunch of international bankers or business people in London/Tokyo/Beijing and you might as well have told them you got your degree at UC Santa Cruz. Because that IS how a UC Santa Cruz person will describe him/herself in that setting.<br /><br />"Berkeley" is our brand. Our Athletic Department can argue differently. Doesn't matter.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">Cal84;624880 said:</div><hr>It's not just the east coast. It's that way too in the Midwest and very strongly that way internationally. I seriously think that some people shoot themselves in the foot when they say they are Cal grads. "Cal grad" is a term that is understood in the Bay Area generally and outside the Bay Area really only in the sports field (and for half of those people they don't associate it with Berkeley). You say that you are a "Cal" grad during cocktail hour while mingling with a bunch of international bankers or business people in London/Tokyo/Beijing and you might as well have told them you got your degree at UC Santa Cruz. Because that IS how a UC Santa Cruz person will describe him/herself in that setting.<br /><br />"Berkeley" is our brand. Our Athletic Department can argue differently. Doesn't matter.<hr></blockquote><br /><br />My experience coincides with yours. I conducted a lot of business outside the US in Asia, the Middle East and Europe. What we know as Cal is "Berkeley" to everyone else. I had lunch about a month ago with a woman who is a department head in a small college in Washington state. I mentioned that my undergraduate degree was from Cal. She asked me which Cal State campus I attended. When I set explained to her that Cal meant University of California at Berkeley she was taken totally by surprise. She knew Cal only as "Berkeley".

<blockquote><div class="name-said">pingpong2;624621 said:</div><hr>Not sure about the rest of the Ivy's but Stanfurd is in the same boat (as far as tuition is concerned). Had a friend who had 75% of her costs covered b/c her household income was under 100k (basically only had to pay living expenses). Ended up paying less than she would have at Cal...<hr></blockquote><br /><br />Most of the top private schools are this way now. Have a friend whose family makes under 100k and he gets full room and board, books, plus flights home 3x a year, I think, and doesn't pay a cent.

As a third generation Cal grad, it pained me to send my kids to east coast liberal arts schools. However if you are honest with the cost comparison and the quality of the undergraduate education, Cal isn't the bargain mentioned above. <br /><br />Cal's admissions website provides an estimate of $31K per year for tuition, room and board. With budget cuts impacting the number of classes, it will likely take you five years to graduate, so your total cost is about $155K. Compare this a private liberal arts school - $50K/yr over four years for a total of $200K. The difference is really about $50K total. Financial aid at the top 25 liberal arts schools is outstanding, so that $50K difference can be dramatically reduced.<br /><br />As FRESHMAN, my kids knew their professors, were in consistently small classes and got a much better education that I did at Cal. Couple this with amazing connections plus an administration that knows and cares about my kids and a strong career center and the $50K premium looked like a bargain to our family. <br /><br />I love Cal, but it's not for every kid and it is no where near the value education that many of the posters above state.

Born and raised in northern NJ. First college - Providence, RI. Second - Madison NJ. Established CA residency in Laguna Beach <img src="<img src="<img src="<img src="<img src="<img src="" />" />" />" />" />">. Then, Cal for rest of BA and grad. In between, USN.

Top grad schools know that in addition to being smart as hell, Cal grads work their asses off. They know that nothing is given to us and that we will compete with anyone, anywhere, about anything, for as long as it takes to win.<br /><br />We are the type of people that will make them look good out in the world of work.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">Rushinbear;625133 said:</div><hr>Second - Madison NJ. <hr></blockquote><br /><br />Fairleigh Dickinson? <br /><br />I'm in Morris County myself. Great place to live.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">83Bear;624982 said:</div><hr><br /><br />I love Cal, but it's not for every kid and it is no where near the value education that many of the posters above state.<hr></blockquote><br /><br />Everything else being equal, a Cal degree is "a ticket." That was (yes, past tense) my experience.

Drew. We called it Fairly Ridiculous. But, it was one of the first places that a person could go who didn't have a great HS record. Business program was pretty good, I heard.<br /><br />I was back there in June for my 50th HS reunion. Had it at the Summit Hotel. Hadn't seen anyone in all that time, including my best bud who got his PhD in Psych and taught for 30 years at... Drew. Fun.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">Cal84;624880 said:</div><hr>It's not just the east coast. It's that way too in the Midwest and very strongly that way internationally. I seriously think that some people shoot themselves in the foot when they say they are Cal grads. "Cal grad" is a term that is understood in the Bay Area generally and outside the Bay Area really only in the sports field (and for half of those people they don't associate it with Berkeley). You say that you are a "Cal" grad during cocktail hour while mingling with a bunch of international bankers or business people in London/Tokyo/Beijing and you might as well have told them you got your degree at UC Santa Cruz. Because that IS how a UC Santa Cruz person will describe him/herself in that setting.<br /><br />"Berkeley" is our brand. Our Athletic Department can argue differently. Doesn't matter.<hr></blockquote><br /><br />Agreed. This is just the way it is and really, it is not a bad thing. In many circles (especially the eat coast), being disassociated from big state schools with football teams and having a purely academic profile is a benefit. And our football team wins based on how many points we score and hold our opponents to. <br /><br />There is a reason superheros maintain duel identities.

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class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="<a href="<a href="<a href="http://npc.fas.harvard.edu/</a></a><br</a>"""" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://npc.fas.harvard.edu/</a></a><br</a>"""</a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="http://npc.fas.harvard.edu/</a></a><br</a>""</a>" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://npc.fas.harvard.edu/</a></a><br</a>""</a></a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="<a href="http://npc.fas.harvard.edu/</a></a><br</a>"</a>"" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://npc.fas.harvard.edu/</a></a><br</a>"</a>"</a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="http://npc.fas.harvard.edu/</a></a><br</a>"</a></a>" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://npc.fas.harvard.edu/</a></a><br</a>"</a></a></a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="<a href="<a href="http://npc.fas.harvard.edu/</a></a><br</a></a>""" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://npc.fas.harvard.edu/</a></a><br</a></a>""</a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="http://npc.fas.harvard.edu/</a></a><br</a></a>"</a>" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://npc.fas.harvard.edu/</a></a><br</a></a>"</a></a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="<a href="http://npc.fas.harvard.edu/</a></a><br</a></a></a>"" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://npc.fas.harvard.edu/</a></a><br</a></a></a>"</a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="http://npc.fas.harvard.edu/</a></a><br</a></a></a></a>" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://npc.fas.harvard.edu/</a></a><br</a></a></a></a></a> /><br />harvard has a calculator that will show you how much you get in financial aid depending on parents salary etc. interesting to play around with.<hr></blockquote><br /><br />wow, a family making $120k and 1 student in school per year only has to pay $16k - estimated at $12k to family out of pocket and $4k to student work.... that's from a total of $57k. <br /><br />I think when I went to Cal, they estimated total cost as about $12k living expenses/other costs + $4k of tuition (obviously more now). <br /><br />Just playing around with the harvard formula, the family contribution goes up pretty slowly until $150k gross household income then rises quickly so that at $235k there is no financial aid. On the other side, there is no expected family contribution at $65k. $150k is 94th percentile, while $65k is 67th percentile. <br /><br />They also don't let you game the system by making huge voluntary retirement contributions to bring the taxable wage down - they count gross.<br /><br />Based on these numbers, I'm not exactly crying over the cost of a harvard education (or any ivy or private school that has similar aid policies). If UC does a lot of aid via loans, with the tuition increases as of late, UC might cost more than a lot of private schools for the middle class.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">burritos;624285 said:</div><hr>spoke with a colleague whose son is attending Penn. Dad pays 6k a month while he's in school for the whole kit and kaboodle. Does that sound right? Seems kind of expensive to me.<hr></blockquote><br /><br />$72K per year seems about right.<br />My sons (both Cal undergrad) went to Harvard law and Georgetown law.<br />One graduated in 2005 and the other in 2008. Adjusting for grad school being more expensive and for inflation. I would say $72K sounds in the ballpark - "all in".

Air fare and ticket to the Big Game.<br /><br />My son is at Cornell. He is 20 years old, and this Saturday will be his 21st Big Game.<br /><br />I have a BA and MBA from Cal, but my son wanted to go to an out-of-state college.<br /><br />What makes no financial sense is going to an out-of-state public college. Total cost is now over $40,000 for Univ. of Michigan.<br /><br />Best deal is 2 years at a jc then transfer to Cal.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">ColoradoBear1;625226 said:</div><hr>wow, a family making $120k and 1 student in school per year only has to pay $16k - estimated at $12k to family out of pocket and $4k to student work.... that's from a total of $57k. <br /><br />I think when I went to Cal, they estimated total cost as about $12k living expenses/other costs + $4k of tuition (obviously more now). <br /><br />Just playing around with the harvard formula, the family contribution goes up pretty slowly until $150k gross household income then rises quickly so that at $235k there is no financial aid. On the other side, there is no expected family contribution at $65k. $150k is 94th percentile, while $65k is 67th percentile. <br /><br />They also don't let you game the system by making huge voluntary retirement contributions to bring the taxable wage down - they count gross.<br /><br />Based on these numbers, I'm not exactly crying over the cost of a harvard education (or any ivy or private school that has similar aid policies). If UC does a lot of aid via loans, with the tuition increases as of late, UC might cost more than a lot of private schools for the middle class.<hr></blockquote><br /><br />This mostly happening at the elite private schools with huge endowments. Congress threatened to take away their tax-exempt status if they did not at least spend the interest on their endowments and just let them continue to compound. <br /><br />So yeah, 1,000 or so middle-class kids each year out of millions of kids across the country each year get a good deal at Harvard, Stanford and Princeton--and if your kid is one of them, you hit the lotto. Meanwhile, unless these schools spend their huge endowments to actually educate MORE students instead of just subsidizing the few, we need to fix public higher education.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">Calbach;625271 said:</div><hr><br />Best deal is 2 years at a jc then transfer to Cal.<hr></blockquote><br /><br />My youngest is on this path and sure it makes great sense financially, but I am saddened that she missed being a freshman in the dorms on a college campus.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">Rushinbear;625136 said:</div><hr>Top grad schools know that in addition to being smart as hell, Cal grads work their asses off. They know that nothing is given to us and that we will compete with anyone, anywhere, about anything, for as long as it takes to win.<br /><br />We are the type of people that will make them look good out in the world of work.<hr></blockquote><br /><br />+1 Exactly!

<blockquote><div class="name-said">calumnus;625274 said:</div><hr> Meanwhile, unless these schools spend their huge endowments to actually educate MORE students instead of just subsidizing the few, we need to fix public higher education.<hr></blockquote><br /><br />Not disagreeing at all with this - my point is basically all this talk over ivy league tuition is a red herring. <br /><br />In California's case, the real problem is not at the UC level, but at the CSU CC level (but at the current costs even students entering Cal should probably be more mindful of what type of major = post college pay...)<br /><br />I found this on primary/secondary versus higher education schools spending -<br /><br /><a href="<a href="<a href="<a href="<a href="<a href="http://www.lao.ca.gov/reports/2011/calfacts/calfacts_010511.aspx#zzee_link_39_1294170707"""""" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://www.lao.ca.gov/reports/2011/calfacts/calfacts_010511.aspx#zzee_link_39_1294170707"""""</a> 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class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="http://www.lao.ca.gov/reports/2011/calfacts/calfacts_010511.aspx#zzee_link_39_1294170707""</a>"</a>" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://www.lao.ca.gov/reports/2011/calfacts/calfacts_010511.aspx#zzee_link_39_1294170707""</a>"</a></a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="<a href="http://www.lao.ca.gov/reports/2011/calfacts/calfacts_010511.aspx#zzee_link_39_1294170707""</a></a>"" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://www.lao.ca.gov/reports/2011/calfacts/calfacts_010511.aspx#zzee_link_39_1294170707""</a></a>"</a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="http://www.lao.ca.gov/reports/2011/calfacts/calfacts_010511.aspx#zzee_link_39_1294170707""</a></a></a>" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://www.lao.ca.gov/reports/2011/calfacts/calfacts_010511.aspx#zzee_link_39_1294170707""</a></a></a></a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="<a href="<a href="<a 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target="_blank">http://www.lao.ca.gov/reports/2011/calfacts/calfacts_010511.aspx#zzee_link_39_1294170707</a></a><br"</a></a></a></a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="<a href="<a href="<a href="http://www.lao.ca.gov/reports/2011/calfacts/calfacts_010511.aspx#zzee_link_39_1294170707</a></a><br</a>"""" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://www.lao.ca.gov/reports/2011/calfacts/calfacts_010511.aspx#zzee_link_39_1294170707</a></a><br</a>"""</a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="http://www.lao.ca.gov/reports/2011/calfacts/calfacts_010511.aspx#zzee_link_39_1294170707</a></a><br</a>""</a>" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://www.lao.ca.gov/reports/2011/calfacts/calfacts_010511.aspx#zzee_link_39_1294170707</a></a><br</a>""</a></a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="<a href="http://www.lao.ca.gov/reports/2011/calfacts/calfacts_010511.aspx#zzee_link_39_1294170707</a></a><br</a>"</a>"" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://www.lao.ca.gov/reports/2011/calfacts/calfacts_010511.aspx#zzee_link_39_1294170707</a></a><br</a>"</a>"</a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="http://www.lao.ca.gov/reports/2011/calfacts/calfacts_010511.aspx#zzee_link_39_1294170707</a></a><br</a>"</a></a>" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://www.lao.ca.gov/reports/2011/calfacts/calfacts_010511.aspx#zzee_link_39_1294170707</a></a><br</a>"</a></a></a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="<a href="<a href="http://www.lao.ca.gov/reports/2011/calfacts/calfacts_010511.aspx#zzee_link_39_1294170707</a></a><br</a></a>""" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://www.lao.ca.gov/reports/2011/calfacts/calfacts_010511.aspx#zzee_link_39_1294170707</a></a><br</a></a>""</a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="http://www.lao.ca.gov/reports/2011/calfacts/calfacts_010511.aspx#zzee_link_39_1294170707</a></a><br</a></a>"</a>" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://www.lao.ca.gov/reports/2011/calfacts/calfacts_010511.aspx#zzee_link_39_1294170707</a></a><br</a></a>"</a></a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="<a href="http://www.lao.ca.gov/reports/2011/calfacts/calfacts_010511.aspx#zzee_link_39_1294170707</a></a><br</a></a></a>"" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://www.lao.ca.gov/reports/2011/calfacts/calfacts_010511.aspx#zzee_link_39_1294170707</a></a><br</a></a></a>"</a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="http://www.lao.ca.gov/reports/2011/calfacts/calfacts_010511.aspx#zzee_link_39_1294170707</a></a><br</a></a></a></a>" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://www.lao.ca.gov/reports/2011/calfacts/calfacts_010511.aspx#zzee_link_39_1294170707</a></a><br</a></a></a></a></a> /><br />It's *NOT* per student gov't subsidy because it includes student fees so it's essentially total money spend on undergraduate education per student-<br /><br />UC - $20k<br />CSU - $10k<br />CC - $5k<br /><br />Compare that to $9k per student for primary/secondary. Compare UC's total state budget of $4.7 billion and CSU's $2.1 billion to CA k-12 at $38 billion state + $20 billion federal. <br /><br />I know it's somehow politically incorrect to cut spending to k-12, but the value added to someone's productivity is so much greater with higher education than k-12. It's a shame that all this money is spent on k-12 with varying results, then it's cut it off for college where there extra few years adds more incrementally by far.<br /><br />CA is really risking it's future by not funding higher education because that's empowering those who will create jobs and pay a large share of taxes in the future. <br /><br />And to me it's cuts at the CSU level or CC level that are far more repugnant that at the UC level.

Go Bears!

What a small world! I lived in Madison for 4 years growing up - my dad was a professor of theology at Drew.<br /><br /><blockquote><div class="name-said">Rushinbear;625199 said:</div><hr>Drew. We called it Fairly Ridiculous. But, it was one of the first places that a person could go who didn't have a great HS record. Business program was pretty good, I heard.<br /><br />I was back there in June for my 50th HS reunion. Had it at the Summit Hotel. Hadn't seen anyone in all that time, including my best bud who got his PhD in Psych and taught for 30 years at... Drew. Fun.<hr></blockquote>

Calgymnast - check private message.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">Cal84;624880 said:</div><hr>It's not just the east coast. It's that way too in the Midwest and very strongly that way internationally. I seriously think that some people shoot themselves in the foot when they say they are Cal grads. "Cal grad" is a term that is understood in the Bay Area generally and outside the Bay Area really only in the sports field (and for half of those people they don't associate it with Berkeley). You say that you are a "Cal" grad during cocktail hour while mingling with a bunch of international bankers or business people in London/Tokyo/Beijing and you might as well have told them you got your degree at UC Santa Cruz. Because that IS how a UC Santa Cruz person will describe him/herself in that setting.<br /><br />"Berkeley" is our brand. Our Athletic Department can argue differently. Doesn't matter.<hr></blockquote><br /><br />I agree completely. I was at a tax conference in Vegas this past weekend and made the mistake of referring to the school as "Cal." Blank looks. <br /><br />During one of the breaks I was talking college sports with a guy based in KS (huge Mizzou fan). He seemed very knowledgable about college hoops, but had no idea that Cal = Berkeley = University of California at Berkeley.