<blockquote><div class="name-said">oursdor;666675 said:</div><hr>The standard for overturning a call in the rulebook is incredibly high:<br /><br /><i><b>ARTICLE 2. The instant replay process operates under the fundamental <br />assumption that the ruling on the field is correct. The replay official may <br />reverse a ruling if and only if the video evidence convinces him beyond all <br />doubt that the ruling was incorrect. Without such indisputable video evidence, <br />the replay official must allow the ruling to stand. </b></i><br /><br />I don't think the video provides indisputable video evidence beyond all doubt that he a. doesn't initially secure the ball before his elbow/leg touch in bounds or b. loses control of the ball as he goes to the ground and slides out of bounds.<hr></blockquote><br /><br />The evidence is indisputable in my view. I base my position on the .gif of Coale's play you provided earlier in this same thread (which is a fantastic effort, by the way). Coale does not clearly establish possession and control before the ball hits the turf. No catch.<br /><br />EDIT: If you review that same .gif to check the position of the side judge (who, I believe made the initial call), you should notice that at some point Coale's body shields the side judge's view of the ball. It's very easy to assume, in real time, that the receiver made the catch when, in fact, the replay shows something else.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">FiatSlug;666759 said:</div><hr>The evidence is indisputable in my view. I base my position on the .gif of Coale's play you provided earlier in this same thread (which is a fantastic effort, by the way). Coale does not clearly establish possession and control before the ball hits the turf. No catch.<br /><br />EDIT: If you review that same .gif to check the position of the side judge (who, I believe made the initial call), you should notice that at some point Coale's body shields the side judge's view of the ball. It's very easy to assume, in real time, that the receiver made the catch when, in fact, the replay shows something else.<hr></blockquote><br /><br />If your argument is based on the nose of the ball hitting the turf before his elbows or feet land, I would buy it. But saying that he "clearly" did not establish possession and control. That's a gray area because there is some subjective element to it - it's not as easy as ball touching ground. Is pinning ball against body control? What is actual control? This is why I think alarusel's take is best. He agrees with you on the call, overall. But the call on the field was a catch. To overrule it by saying with absolute conviction (which is what indisputable evidence is) that dude did not have control -- there's no way anyone can say that in such an absolute manner. Call should have stood. Pac-12 replay ref robbed VT of a great chance to win. That catch by Coale should have been legendary. Instead, it was just an incomplete pass. Thank you Pac-12 ref.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">FiatSlug;666759 said:</div><hr>The evidence is indisputable in my view. I base my position on the .gif of Coale's play you provided earlier in this same thread (which is a fantastic effort, by the way). Coale does not clearly establish possession and control before the ball hits the turf. No catch.<br /><br />EDIT: If you review that same .gif to check the position of the side judge (who, I believe made the initial call), you should notice that at some point Coale's body shields the side judge's view of the ball. It's very easy to assume, in real time, that the receiver made the catch when, in fact, the replay shows something else.<hr></blockquote><br /><br />I think you just agreed that the catch should stand. Once the ref on the field ruled a catch, then no matter what one believes, the ref has ruled that possession was "established". Everything you've argued does not support an overturn of that call, and in fact, argues for keeping the call since there is no "indisputable evidence"

<blockquote><div class="name-said">buster99;666813 said:</div><hr>I think you just agreed that the catch should stand. Once the ref on the field ruled a catch, then no matter what one believes, the ref has ruled that possession was "established". Everything you've argued does not support an overturn of that call, and in fact, argues for keeping the call since there is no "indisputable evidence"<hr></blockquote><br /><br />I did not agree that the catch should stand. Go back and read what I said and tell me where I agreed that the call should stand.<br /><br />I said that there is indisputable video evidence that the receiver (Coale) <b>did not have possession and control</b> of the ball. The ruling on the field is irrelevant if the video evidence is indisputable in supporting a contrary call.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">FiatSlug;667129 said:</div><hr>I did not agree that the catch should stand. Go back and read what I said and tell me where I agreed that the call should stand.<br /><br />I said that there is indisputable video evidence that the receiver (Coale) <b>did not have possession and control</b> of the ball. The ruling on the field is irrelevant if the video evidence is indisputable in supporting a contrary call.<hr></blockquote><br /><br />I agree with you FS...after watching the replay, the ball hit the ground just enough to help with control and to render it incomplete...if the nose of the ball had been turned 45 degrees away from the turf, then I think control would have been more visibly established....

<blockquote><div class="name-said">KoreAmBear;666798 said:</div><hr>If your argument is based on the nose of the ball hitting the turf before his elbows or feet land, I would buy it. But saying that he "clearly" did not establish possession and control. That's a gray area because there is some subjective element to it - it's not as easy as ball touching ground. Is pinning ball against body control? What is actual control? This is why I think alarusel's take is best. He agrees with you on the call, overall. But the call on the field was a catch. To overrule it by saying with absolute conviction (which is what indisputable evidence is) that dude did not have control -- there's no way anyone can say that in such an absolute manner. Call should have stood. Pac-12 replay ref robbed VT of a great chance to win. That catch by Coale should have been legendary. Instead, it was just an incomplete pass. Thank you Pac-12 ref.<hr></blockquote><br /><br />It may be a gray area, but that's because it requires judgment on the part of the official making the call. So, yes, it is subjective.<br /><br />In my view, Coale didn't establish possession and control of the ball before the ball hit the turf because he was not able to demonstrate that the movement of the ball depended solely on his actions. If Coale could demonstrate that the movement of the ball was dependent on his action, then he could establish possession and control.<br /><br />Look at the .gif that oursdor posted. Coale reaches out and contacts the ball with his right hand, deflecting it back towards his body. But the ball is still spinning as Coale pulls his hands back towards his body. Pinning the ball against your body does not necessarily establish possession and control. <br /><br />In fact, the .gif clearly indicates to me that Coale does not establish control of the ball until after both he and the ball bounce off the turf. The ball is still moving independent of any effort Coale makes to hold the ball next to his body. I'd call that indisputable evidence that Coale did not establish possession and control.<br /><br />So much of the argument in favor of the original call seems dependent on the idea that it was a fantastic effort, that the TD should be awarded for that effort. That's not the basis for officiating.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">KoreAmBear;666798 said:</div><hr>If your argument is based on the nose of the ball hitting the turf before his elbows or feet land, I would buy it. <hr></blockquote><br /><br />I think that's the key here. It's pretty clear that the nose of the ball hits the turf and shifts a bit in his hands when he hits the ground (you can see it come up when he hits). That's pretty clear evidence to me that he was still essentially "bobbling" the ball when he hit the ground and it's not a catch. The refs got it right.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">FiatSlug;667129 said:</div><hr>I did not agree that the catch should stand. Go back and read what I said and tell me where I agreed that the call should stand.<br /><br />I said that there is indisputable video evidence that the receiver (Coale) <b>did not have possession and control</b> of the ball. The ruling on the field is irrelevant if the video evidence is indisputable in supporting a contrary call.<hr></blockquote><br /><br />You wrote: "The evidence is indisputable in my view. I base my position on the .gif of Coale's play you provided earlier in this same thread (which is a fantastic effort, by the way). <b>Coale does not clearly establish possession and control before the ball hits the turf</b>. No catch."<br /><br />That is why we disagree. Since the ref ruled a catch on field, the "does not clearly establish possession" can be interpreted that the the reverse is true, that it is not clear he did not establish possession. The burden has now moved to the replay official to prove otherwise. Perceived movement of the ball does not mean Coale lost possession. So unless you think it is indisputable that he lost possession, then the ref cannot overturn.<br /><br />FWIW I thought no catch, but that isn't basis for an overturn.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">manus;666229 said:</div><hr>It wasn't a catch.<br /><br />And, once again, the kicker who executed, "won" the game! Clutch.<hr></blockquote><br /><br />Thank you, it OBVIOUSLY wasn't a catch, and the Pac-12 refs actually did pretty well in this game. If you thought it was a catch you don't know the rule. The ground clearly helped the receiver secure the football.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">buster99;667177 said:</div><hr>Perceived movement of the ball does not mean Coale lost possession.<hr></blockquote><br /><br />Actually I think as the rules stand right now it does. Refs are told to look for movement of the ball when a player hits the ground in the process of making a catch. If the ball hits the ground and moves at all, it's not a catch. Seems pretty clear from the replay that's what happened here.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">buster99;667177 said:</div><hr>You wrote: "The evidence is indisputable in my view. I base my position on the .gif of Coale's play you provided earlier in this same thread (which is a fantastic effort, by the way). <b>Coale does not clearly establish possession and control before the ball hits the turf</b>. No catch."<br /><br />That is why we disagree. Since the ref ruled a catch on field, the "does not clearly establish possession" can be interpreted that the the reverse is true, that it is not clear he did not establish possession. The burden has now moved to the replay official to prove otherwise. Perceived movement of the ball does not mean Coale lost possession. So unless you think it is indisputable that he lost possession, then the ref cannot overturn.<br /><br />FWIW I thought no catch, but that isn't basis for an overturn.<hr></blockquote><br /><br />You have got to be kidding: "does not clearly establish possession" isn't definitive enough? <br /><br />Alright, try this on for size: At no time did the receiver establish possession and control of the ball before the ball hit the turf. Ergo, no catch.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">sycasey;667191 said:</div><hr>Actually I think as the rules stand right now it does. Refs are told to look for movement of the ball when a player hits the ground in the process of making a catch. If the ball hits the ground and moves at all, it's not a catch. Seems pretty clear from the replay that's what happened here.<hr></blockquote><br /><br />I haven't seen the actual rule and whether it mentions ball movement. But maybe that is what the officials are told. In fact, I thought I read that ball movement did not necessarily mean loss of possession, but that may have been an NFL rule.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">FiatSlug;667243 said:</div><hr>You have got to be kidding: "does not clearly establish possession" isn't definitive enough? <br /><br />Alright, try this on for size: At no time did the receiver establish possession and control of the ball before the ball hit the turf. Ergo, no catch.<hr></blockquote><br /><br />we agree to disagree. the on field ref ruled he did have possession, I think the replay did not prove indisputably he did not. <br /><br />WRT to ball movement, that may be an NFL term only. Couldn't find anything in NCAA, but the NFL says:<br /><br /><blockquote><div class="name-said">Quote:</div><hr>If a player has control of the ball, a slight movement of the ball will not be considered a loss of <br />possession<hr></blockquote><br /><br />So if he did not have control, then no catch. If he did, then the slight movement of the ball decides what? At the end of the day, flip a coin...<br /><br /><a href="<a href="<a href="<a href="<a href="http://"http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=fleming/090923&sportCat=nfl"""""" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://"http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=fleming/090923&sportCat=nfl"""""</a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="http://"http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=fleming/090923&sportCat=nfl""""</a>" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://"http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=fleming/090923&sportCat=nfl""""</a></a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="<a href="http://"http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=fleming/090923&sportCat=nfl"""</a>"" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://"http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=fleming/090923&sportCat=nfl"""</a>"</a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="http://"http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=fleming/090923&sportCat=nfl"""</a></a>" 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<blockquote><div class="name-said">buster99;667298 said:</div><hr>we agree to disagree. the on field ref ruled he did have possession, I think the replay did not prove indisputably he did not. <hr></blockquote> <br /><br />You're right: we agree to disagree, especially as regards the video evidence providing indisputable proof.<br /><br /><blockquote><div class="name-said">buster99;667298 said:</div><hr>WRT to ball movement, that may be an NFL term only. Couldn't find anything in NCAA, but the NFL says:<br /><br /><blockquote><div class="name-said">Quote:</div><hr>If a player has control of the ball, a slight movement of the ball will not be considered a loss of <br />possession<hr></blockquote><br /><br /><b>So if he did not have control, then no catch. If he did, then the slight movement of the ball decides what?</b> At the end of the day, flip a coin...<br /><br /><a href="<a href="<a href="<a href="<a href="http://"http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=fleming/090923&sportCat=nfl"""""" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://"http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=fleming/090923&sportCat=nfl"""""</a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="http://"http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=fleming/090923&sportCat=nfl""""</a>" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://"http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=fleming/090923&sportCat=nfl""""</a></a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="<a href="http://"http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=fleming/090923&sportCat=nfl"""</a>"" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://"http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=fleming/090923&sportCat=nfl"""</a>"</a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a 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href="http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=fleming/090923&sportCat=nfl""</a>"" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=fleming/090923&sportCat=nfl""</a>"</a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=fleming/090923&sportCat=nfl""</a></a>" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=fleming/090923&sportCat=nfl""</a></a></a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="<a href="<a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=fleming/090923&sportCat=nfl"</a>""" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=fleming/090923&sportCat=nfl"</a>""</a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=fleming/090923&sportCat=nfl"</a>"</a>" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=fleming/090923&sportCat=nfl"</a>"</a></a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="<a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=fleming/090923&sportCat=nfl"</a></a>"" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=fleming/090923&sportCat=nfl"</a></a>"</a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=fleming/090923&sportCat=nfl"</a></a></a>" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=fleming/090923&sportCat=nfl"</a></a></a></a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="<a href="<a href="<a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=fleming/090923&sportCat=nfl</a></a><hr></blockquote><br"""" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=fleming/090923&sportCat=nfl</a></a><hr></blockquote><br"""</a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=fleming/090923&sportCat=nfl</a></a><hr></blockquote><br""</a>" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=fleming/090923&sportCat=nfl</a></a><hr></blockquote><br""</a></a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="<a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=fleming/090923&sportCat=nfl</a></a><hr></blockquote><br"</a>"" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=fleming/090923&sportCat=nfl</a></a><hr></blockquote><br"</a>"</a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=fleming/090923&sportCat=nfl</a></a><hr></blockquote><br"</a></a>" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=fleming/090923&sportCat=nfl</a></a><hr></blockquote><br"</a></a></a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="<a href="<a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=fleming/090923&sportCat=nfl</a></a><hr></blockquote><br</a>""" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=fleming/090923&sportCat=nfl</a></a><hr></blockquote><br</a>""</a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=fleming/090923&sportCat=nfl</a></a><hr></blockquote><br</a>"</a>" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=fleming/090923&sportCat=nfl</a></a><hr></blockquote><br</a>"</a></a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="<a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=fleming/090923&sportCat=nfl</a></a><hr></blockquote><br</a></a>"" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=fleming/090923&sportCat=nfl</a></a><hr></blockquote><br</a></a>"</a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=fleming/090923&sportCat=nfl</a></a><hr></blockquote><br</a></a></a>" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=fleming/090923&sportCat=nfl</a></a><hr></blockquote><br</a></a></a></a> /><br />Clearly, I think Coale <b>never had control</b> of the ball prior to the ball hitting the turf. If he did have control prior to the ball hitting the turf, then it would have been a catch.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">buster99;667298 said:</div><hr>we agree to disagree. the on field ref ruled he did have possession, I think the replay did not prove indisputably he did not. <hr></blockquote><br /><br />Well, let's get into the nitty-gritty of the NCAA rules (I bolded the relevant parts here):<br /><br />-----------------------------------------------------------------------<br /><br /><a href="<a href="<a href="<a href="<a href="http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR12.pdf""""" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR12.pdf""""</a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR12.pdf"""</a>" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR12.pdf"""</a></a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="<a href="http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR12.pdf""</a>"" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR12.pdf""</a>"</a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR12.pdf""</a></a>" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR12.pdf""</a></a></a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="<a href="<a href="http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR12.pdf"</a>""" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR12.pdf"</a>""</a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR12.pdf"</a>"</a>" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR12.pdf"</a>"</a></a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="<a href="http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR12.pdf"</a></a>"" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR12.pdf"</a></a>"</a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR12.pdf"</a></a></a>" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR12.pdf"</a></a></a></a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="<a href="<a href="<a href="<a href="http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR12.pdf""""" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR12.pdf""""</a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR12.pdf"""</a>" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR12.pdf"""</a></a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="<a href="http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR12.pdf""</a>"" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR12.pdf""</a>"</a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR12.pdf""</a></a>" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR12.pdf""</a></a></a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="<a href="<a href="http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR12.pdf"</a>""" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR12.pdf"</a>""</a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR12.pdf"</a>"</a>" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR12.pdf"</a>"</a></a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="<a href="http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR12.pdf"</a></a>"" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR12.pdf"</a></a>"</a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR12.pdf"</a></a></a>" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR12.pdf"</a></a></a></a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="<a href="<a href="<a href="http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR12.pdf</a></a><br"""" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR12.pdf</a></a><br"""</a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR12.pdf</a></a><br""</a>" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR12.pdf</a></a><br""</a></a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="<a href="http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR12.pdf</a></a><br"</a>"" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR12.pdf</a></a><br"</a>"</a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR12.pdf</a></a><br"</a></a>" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR12.pdf</a></a><br"</a></a></a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="<a href="<a href="http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR12.pdf</a></a><br</a>""" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR12.pdf</a></a><br</a>""</a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR12.pdf</a></a><br</a>"</a>" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR12.pdf</a></a><br</a>"</a></a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="<a href="http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR12.pdf</a></a><br</a></a>"" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR12.pdf</a></a><br</a></a>"</a> class="postlink " target="_blank"><a href="http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR12.pdf</a></a><br</a></a></a>" class="postlink " target="_blank">http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR12.pdf</a></a><br</a></a></a></a> /><br />From Page 31:<br />ARTICLE 3. a. To catch a ball means that a player:<br />1. Gains possession (Rule 2-4-1) of a live ball in flight; or<br />2. Leaves his feet and firmly grasps a live ball in flight, the ball first<br />touching the ground inbounds while still in his <b>firm grasp</b>; or<br />3. Leaves his feet, <b>firmly grasps</b> a live ball in flight and either first returns<br />to the ground inbounds with any part of his body or is so held that the<br />dead-ball provisions of Rule 4-1-3-p apply (A.R. 2-4-3-I-IV and A.R.<br />7-3-6-III).<br /><br />From Page 77:<br />ARTICLE 7. a. Any forward pass is incomplete if the ball is out of bounds by<br />rule or <b>if it touches the ground when not firmly controlled</b> by a player<br /><br />From Page 164:<br />IX. Airborne receiver A85 grasps a forward pass and in the process of going<br />to the ground, first contacts the ground with his left foot as he falls to<br />the ground inbounds. Immediately upon A85 hitting the ground, the <b>ball<br />comes loose and touches the ground</b>. RULING: Incomplete pass. An<br />airborne receiver must maintain control of the ball while going to the<br />ground in the process of completing a catch.<br /><br />XIV. Eligible A80 is airborne when he receives a legal forward pass. He<br />grasps the ball firmly in his hands, and as he is returning toward the<br />ground, the nose of the football touches the ground before any part of<br />his body. A80 retains his firm control of the ball and it <b>does not move</b><br />during this action. A80's knees then touch the ground and he maintains<br />control of the ball. RULING: Completed pass.<br /><br />-----------------------------------------------------------------------<br /><br />I think it's pretty clear that the receiver didn't have control of the ball when it hit the ground. The only room for question here is if you really think he "firmly grasped" the ball before it touched the ground. I really don't see it. He got one hand on it while diving, the ball kept spinning on that hand, then he got another hand barely around it and it hit the ground. You can see the ball clearly move when it hits the ground. That's not a "firm grasp" by any reasonable definition.<br /><br />Finally, the later interpretations do indeed reference the idea that the ball should not move when it hits the ground, if the receiver wants to demonstrate firm control while making a diving catch. This play didn't qualify.