Keep an eye on a couple Texas HS recruits - Thomas Johnson and DaVante Harris, and their relationship to a guy named Baron Flenory ("another" Will Lyles type of character).<br /><br />Rumors/smoke big time on both of these kids' recruitment being similar to a few other notables - including a LB from the same area last year who went to Nike U.

source?

Chip, get to your bucket list, kiddo.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">tommie317;672129 said:</div><hr>source?<hr></blockquote><br /><br />Nothing more than several "connected" posters on one of the Texas pay sites - so take it FWIW. However, there wa the same type of smoke around the Lache Seastrunk recruitment 1.5 yrs before the Yahoo investigation into his recruitment so I'd say a pretty high % of this being legit.

I'm just saying keep an eye on those 2

<blockquote><div class="name-said">BayAreaHorn;672153 said:</div><hr>Nothing more than several "connected" posters on one of the Texas pay sites - so take it FWIW. However, there wa the same type of smoke around the Lache Seastrunk recruitment 1.5 yrs before the Yahoo investigation into his recruitment so I'd say a pretty high % of this being legit.<hr></blockquote><br /><br />You can add the OU insider folk saying the same things. It's rare for Texas and OU to see eye-to-eye on anything.

Johnson is definitely up there on Cal's list. I hope we are completely free to go after him, although I worry about collateral if things with Oregon get murkier.<br /><br />Anyone recall how things went down at the end with Gabe King? I kind of remember Oregon backing off of him down the stretch due to all the suspicions with him living in Eugene, etc.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">BerlinerBaer;672181 said:</div><hr><br />Anyone recall how things went down at the end with Gabe King? I kind of remember Oregon backing off of him down the stretch due to all the suspicions with him living in Eugene, etc.<hr></blockquote><br /> That's Oregon's go to excuse for everytime a recruit with integrity dares to reject Uncle Phil's money. King was all CAL and whoergon claimed they pulled the offer when it became more obvious to them that King was going to CAL. Things got really ugly with the Oregon Scout writer making up stories about Yelverton.

Ha! Oregon facilitated his move to Eugene. Tosh said at the BI effect that Gabe contacted us, Oregon and Bama asking what transfer options were in the area and Oregon gladly jumped on that. <br />Then when Gabe decided to look around, Chip jumped down his throat and was extremely rude to his gf on the phone and threatened to pull his offer. Then, to top things off, Chris McCain and Lache Seastrunk HATE each other, so there is the creation of the Greensboro package

<blockquote><div class="name-said">BayAreaHorn;672153 said:</div><hr>Nothing more than several "connected" posters on one of the Texas pay sites - so take it FWIW. However, there wa the same type of smoke around the Lache Seastrunk recruitment 1.5 yrs before the Yahoo investigation into his recruitment so I'd say a pretty high % of this being legit.<hr></blockquote><br /><br />You mean when Texas got pissed off that Lyle's was pushing high level recruits out of state and Applewhite started leaking information to media outlets? If people are so concerned that Flenory used to play for Kelly, what does that say about texas high schools and the coaching clinics that have a much closer connection to UT than Flenory does to Oregon. Also if Texas had anything resembling an offense they wouldn't have to worry about commits jumping ship.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">GranadaHillsBear;672192 said:</div><hr>That's Oregon's go to excuse for everytime a recruit with integrity dares to reject Uncle Phil's money. King was all CAL and whoergon claimed they pulled the offer when it became more obvious to them that King was going to CAL. Things got really ugly with the Oregon Scout writer making up stories about Yelverton.<hr></blockquote><br /><br />Could you list "everytime" Oregon has used this excuse?

Chip Kelly will no doubt deal only with cash this time around.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">dupdadee;672221 said:</div><hr>Chip Kelly will no doubt deal only with cash this time around.<hr></blockquote><br />And no thank-you notes probably ....

Pilot: so based on your post you assert that the Seastrunk recruitment and the Lyles relationship is 100% squeaky clean?

And to be clear: I have no doubt Applewhite either was part or encouraged the "outing" of Lyles. But so what? O course they wouldn't be happy losing recruits to a shady recruiting tactic.

For the record, we've discussed Flenory here before. This is not new.<br /><br />Texas and Oklahoma fans are rattled right now because there are rumors flying about Oregon getting in on their commits, and those commits happen to have connections with Flenory.<br /><br />Flenory has openly admitted before that he loves Chip Kelly, and the way he coaches and runs Oregon football. Given Flenory's role in the 7on7 circuit, this gives Oregon an advantage for sure. But if Oregon is not paying him, (and by most accounts they stopped once the NCAA ruled that he couldn't host his camps on college campuses) then there's nothing illegal about it, and it's not all that dissimilar from HS coaches with ties to in state programs touting the virtues of one program over another.<br /><br />Fans of those schools assume that there's no way little Oregon with no tradition should be able to sway kids from their backyard. They are being short sighted to say the least if they can see no other explanation beyond blatant cheating while already under NCAA investigation.

Sounds like a Texas fan who is bitter about losing recruits to Wh*regon :rollinglaugh:<br /><br />"Sources on a Texas paysite" Lmao. A hooker from the Tenderloin informed me that Mack Brown can't coach.<br /><br />Hopefully Wh*regon gets hammered, but I love that fat boy Chip is pissing off Texas fans.

You are always such a class act. A real credit to UW..... area fast food restaurant manager training programs. Kuddos.

From ShaggyBevo... not sure if a big deal or not.<br /><br /><img src="<img src="<img src="<img src="<img src="" />" />" />" />" />

That pic is getting so much mileage...<br />"ono they're friends on facebook!"<br /><br />(They're probably friends offline too... unless Baron is handing TJ or a parent a stack of cash, who the hell cares?)<br /><br />If we were all judged by who we have friended on facebook... lord

<blockquote><div class="name-said">SurvivorOf1and10fkaLEA;672285 said:</div><hr>You are always such a class act. A real credit to UW..... area fast food restaurant manager training programs. Kuddos.<hr></blockquote><br />I find it to be quite humorous that whenever I post, you seem to pop up with the same fast food line.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">BowDowntoWashington;672277 said:</div><hr>Sounds like a Texas fan who is bitter about losing recruits to Wh*regon :rollinglaugh:<br /><br />"Sources on a Texas paysite" Lmao. A hooker from the Tenderloin informed me that Mack Brown can't coach.<br /><br />Hopefully Wh*regon gets hammered, but I love that fat boy Chip is pissing off Texas fans.<hr></blockquote><br /><br />Texas has lost plenty of recruits before, and will again - and rarely is there any smoke or claims of something smelly - but there is on these 2 (1 of whom was an OU recruit).<br /><br />These same "sources" raised the red flag on Seastrunk/Lyles well over a year before that became public - so while I have no idea if these 2 recruiting situations are similarly dirty, it's at least highly possible given history.<br /><br />Bellotti's reply may be correct - who knows - and what he says seems legit and informed. But when there's this much smoke, sometimes there's a fire.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">BayAreaHorn;672259 said:</div><hr>Pilot: so based on your post you assert that the Seastrunk recruitment and the Lyles relationship is 100% squeaky clean?<hr></blockquote><br /><br />I've maintained from the very beginning that the Lyle's situation was all about getting a foothold in Texas and Lache was a byproduct of that. Lyles has repeatedly said that he Oregon never asked nor did he ever try to steer lache to the Ducks and it's not like there was any incentive to lie about it. <br /><br />Oregon bought coaching relationships/connections as much as scouting materials (or lack thereof depending on your opinion) and the problem is that Oregon tried to exploit the hell out of the grey area before and after the NCAA Bylaw changes regarding requirements for recruiting documentation. Was is it a blatant violation of NCAA rules? Based on all the analysis done I would say no. but it was close enough that Oregon will probably get some punishment.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">BowDowntoWashington;672277 said:</div><hr>Sounds like a Texas fan who is bitter about losing recruits to Wh*regon :rollinglaugh:<br /><br />"Sources on a Texas paysite" Lmao. A hooker from the Tenderloin informed me that Mack Brown can't coach.<br /><br />Hopefully Wh*regon gets hammered, but I love that fat boy Chip is pissing off Texas fans.<hr></blockquote><br /><br />Lmao nice

<blockquote><div class="name-said">ppilot;672314 said:</div><hr>I've maintained from the very beginning that the Lyle's situation was all about getting a foothold in Texas and Lache was a byproduct of that. Lyles has repeatedly said that he Oregon never asked nor did he ever try to steer lache to the Ducks and it's not like there was any incentive to lie about it. <br /><br />Oregon bought coaching relationships/connections as much as scouting materials (or lack thereof depending on your opinion) and the problem is that Oregon tried to exploit the hell out of the grey area before and after the NCAA Bylaw changes regarding requirements for recruiting documentation. Was is it a blatant violation of NCAA rules? Based on all the analysis done I would say no. but it was close enough that Oregon will probably get some punishment.<hr></blockquote><br /><br />1. Lyles arranged trips for recruits and also accompanied those recruits on the visits.<br />2. Lyles personally drove Kelly around Houston area high schools.<br />3. Kelly hand-wrote thank you notes to Lyles for getting recruits to Oregon.<br />4. Lyles coordinated with Oregon on getting guardianship of Seastrunk switched so he could get his LOI signed to Oregon.<br /><br />None of the above would be a problem until:<br /><br />5. Oregon paid Lyles $25K, then called up well after the fact to request "something, anything" that looks like recruiting materials. Those materials arrived and were laughable at best.<br /><br />Look, I understand that maybe a court of law would find it hard to connect the $25K to Seastrunk - but (a) the NCAA isn't a court of law, and (b) it's pretty clear that even without the Seastrunk connection that Oregon paid Lyles $25K for more than just recruiting materials. <br /><br />My guess is the Flenory situation is nowhere near as blatant as the Lyles one - and it may be nothing at all. But to still assert that the relationship with Lyles was clean is kind of ridiculous.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">BayAreaHorn;672313 said:</div><hr><b>Texas has lost plenty of recruits before, and will again</b> - and rarely is there any smoke or claims of something smelly - but there is on these 2 (1 of whom was an OU recruit).<br /><br />These same "sources" raised the red flag on Seastrunk/Lyles well over a year before that became public - so while I have no idea if these 2 recruiting situations are similarly dirty, it's at least highly possible given history.<br /><br />Bellotti's reply may be correct - who knows - and what he says seems legit and informed. But when there's this much smoke, sometimes there's a fire.<hr></blockquote><br />Texas has lost recruits to Oklahoma and a few SEC schools. To Wh*regon (up until recently)? Nope. Mack Brown is pissed off that he sucks at scouting and can't coach up his 5 star recruits. You guys took Garrett Gilbert and passed on Robert Griffin, Andrew Luck, and Darron Thomas. Why? Because Gilbert was a 5 star recruit!<br /><br />I am hoping that Wh*regon gets hammered for what they did with Lyles. He clearly influenced recruits and got them to take visits that they otherwise wouldn't have. I wouldn't exactly call it "pay for play" because Lyles wasn't delivering recruits, but he was definitely overstepping his bounds. I think that's a pretty clear NCAA violation. At worst, I would expect Wh*regon's sanctions to be comparable to Ohio State's.<br /><br />However, do you think that Chip Kelly is really dumb enough to be dealing with street agents after he got caught cheating and is under the watchful eye of the NCAA? Please tell me that you have more common sense than that.<br /><br />I think it's pretty likely that Johnson saw what the QB situation is at Texas (pathetic) and decided that he wanted to play in a decent offensive system.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">BayAreaHorn;672323 said:</div><hr>1. Lyles arranged trips for recruits and also accompanied those recruits on the visits.<br />2. Lyles personally drove Kelly around Houston area high schools.<br />3. Kelly hand-wrote thank you notes to Lyles for getting recruits to Oregon.<br />4. Lyles coordinated with Oregon on getting guardianship of Seastrunk switched so he could get his LOI signed to Oregon.<br /><br />None of the above would be a problem until:<br /><br />5. Oregon paid Lyles $25K, then called up well after the fact to request "something, anything" that looks like recruiting materials. Those materials arrived and were laughable at best.<hr></blockquote><br /><br />A word of advice to BAH - don't waste too much time on this one, most of our Duck visitors are immune to facts and logic when it comes to Oregon's NCAA recruiting violations. Even after the hammer falls they'd still be yammering on about exploiting grey areas and paying for relationships instead of just recruiting data. Even though the rest of us recognize these phrases as sad euphemisms for cheating it appears Duckfan may actually believe them to be true (and okay). New justifications will surely come when faced with penalties, but for the time being they tend to be stuck on these talking points.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">BowDowntoWashington;672330 said:</div><hr>Texas has lost recruits to Oklahoma and a few SEC schools. To Wh*regon (up until recently)? Nope. Mack Brown is pissed off that he sucks at scouting and can't coach up his 5 star recruits. You guys took Garrett Gilbert and passed on Robert Griffin, Andrew Luck, and Darron Thomas. Why? Because Gilbert was a 5 star recruit!<br /><br />I am hoping that Wh*regon gets hammered for what they did with Lyles. He clearly influenced recruits and got them to take visits that they otherwise wouldn't have. I wouldn't exactly call it "pay for play" because Lyles wasn't delivering recruits, but he was definitely overstepping his bounds. I think that's a pretty clear NCAA violation. At worst, I would expect Wh*regon's sanctions to be comparable to Ohio State's.<br /><br />However, do you think that Chip Kelly is really dumb enough to be dealing with street agents after he got caught cheating and is under the watchful eye of the NCAA? Please tell me that you have more common sense than that.<br /><br />I think it's pretty likely that Johnson saw what the QB situation is at Texas (pathetic) and decided that he wanted to play in a decent offensive system.<hr></blockquote><br /><br />So because Garrett Gilbert sucked, Oregon didn't recruit dirty with Lyles? That's some good logic. And if Mack sucks at recruiting, then I guess I'll just have to live with that. For the record: Gilbert was the targetted QB for the prior OC, Greg Davis, for 2-3 years and was the only QB take that year. No idea if we would have even been able to get Luck - but, you are correct, that didn't really pan out for us. What that has to do with Lyles and (potentially) Flenory I'm not sure.<br /><br />I have no idea if Kelly would be as dumb as he was with Lyles; however, I'm just saying that the same folks who saw the Lyles/Seastrunk deal well before it went public on Yahoo are seeing something here. They may be wrong or right.<br /><br />As to Thomas Johnson: he may very well look at Oregon's offense and want to be a part - and it would be hard to blame him. However, Texas' offense has only "sucked" very recently. I know this is ancient ancient ancient history, but we played for all the marbles in 2009 and finished 2008 at #3 - so it's not like it's been for a decade. TJ was an early commit and only very recently did his song start changing, and then decommit. Could be innocent, or it could be something more than innocent.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">BayAreaHorn;672323 said:</div><hr>1. Lyles arranged trips for recruits and also accompanied those recruits on the visits.<br />2. Lyles personally drove Kelly around Houston area high schools.<br />3. Kelly hand-wrote thank you notes to Lyles for getting recruits to Oregon.<br />4. Lyles coordinated with Oregon on getting guardianship of Seastrunk switched so he could get his LOI signed to Oregon.<br /><br />None of the above would be a problem until:<br /><br />5. Oregon paid Lyles $25K, then called up well after the fact to request "something, anything" that looks like recruiting materials. Those materials arrived and were laughable at best.<br /><br />Look, I understand that maybe a court of law would find it hard to connect the $25K to Seastrunk - but (a) the NCAA isn't a court of law, and (b) it's pretty clear that even without the Seastrunk connection that Oregon paid Lyles $25K for more than just recruiting materials. <br /><br />My guess is the Flenory situation is nowhere near as blatant as the Lyles one - and it may be nothing at all. But to still assert that the relationship with Lyles was clean is kind of ridiculous.<hr></blockquote><br /><br />First, did you even read my response? I never said Oregon was completely clean<br /><br />1. Lyles accompanied recruits to every school that was interested in including Cal, LSU, and Auburn.<br /><br />2. There are no specifics in the NCAA bylaws regarding providing services like this one and whether or not the act of facilitating new relationships is considered a booster. <br /><br />3. I am willing to bet that note was written by an AD staffer like most thank you notes and would be very similar to thank you's written to coaches.<br /><br />4. It was a well publicized fact that Lache's mom wasn't the person who raised him and had her own opinion of where he should go, regardless of his opinion. If Lache wanted to go to Oregon, wouldn't it be logical to ask his contact in the AD about how to get his guardianship changed?<br /><br />5. The big part you are missing here is the timeline regarding the change in recruiting documentation bylaws . Prior to the change all of Oregon's recruiting material received were perfectly legal. After that it gets much less clear and your interpretation of the rush request for materials depends on whether you think Oregon requested the materials because Lyles never delivered on their initial request or if they never made one in the first place.<br /><br />There have a been a couple of extremely detailed posts/timelines about this issue and the conclusion by most of them was that Oregon probably will get hit with some sort of punishment due to the recruiting materials

Do you guys mind taking this to your own boards to fight over? We here at BI only like to debate whether or not Tedford needs to be replaced. Thanks.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">stanfurdbites;672364 said:</div><hr>Do you guys mind taking this to your own boards to fight over? We here at BI only like to debate whether or not Tedford needs to be replaced. Thanks.<hr></blockquote><br /><br />:rollinglaugh: sorry furdbites<br /><br />pilot: thanks for the reasoned responses; I do agree that it's still unclear how "severe" any violations were - but (from what I've read) it could be serious if the NCAA concludes that Oregon was paying for access/influence<br /><br />as to the Seastrunk guardianship: I agree it seems like the grandmother was a logical guardian (no debate there) - however, it was the documented connection between the Oregon staff and Lyles about getting this accomplished that is the problem; again, if Lyles was just a great guy, no big deal (at least as far as I know), but he was paid<br /><br />as to the notes: the notes came from Oregon and were signed by Kelly; if this was a staffer it doesn't change anything - I'm sure they were directed to do so; the fact remains that the Oregon coaching staff was thanking Lyles specifically for getting recruits to their campus<br /><br />I really think it takes some serious mental gymastics to convince yourself nothing bad happened here (which I see you at least are aware that it wasn't 100% clean) - and if it is as "bad" as it seems I think those are violations which could lead to scholly reductions and/or post season bans for a season or 2 (not program killers, but clear signs of wrongdoing from the NCAA's perspective) - while Nike is clearly tied closely to Oregon, the NCAA has shown a willingness to smack bigger programs around a bit (USC, tOSU)

If Baron Flenory is involved the do not want he's a walking death penalty for any school getting involved. <br /><br />He's akin to the AAU bag men.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">BayAreaHorn;672323 said:</div><hr>2. Lyles personally drove Kelly around Houston area high schools.<hr></blockquote><br /><br />I'm not sure what would be exactly wrong with that, but I've not heard this mentioned before. I did a couple google searches and came up empty. Could you help me out with a link? Thanks

<blockquote><div class="name-said">RaphaelAglietti;672423 said:</div><hr>If Baron Flenory is involved the do not want he's a walking death penalty for any school getting involved. <br /><br />He's akin to the AAU bag men.<hr></blockquote><br /><br />Baron Flenory's company Badger Sports puts on 7x7 tournaments across the country where prospect kids can showcase themselves against other top talents. The first article hit of my first google search revealed Jordan Payton starred out West this past summer...

Let me ask you guys something.<br /><br />Name the top 10 prog's in the country and what do they have in common?.<br /><br />Have they been implicated in the past to scandals and sanctions? Go through the list.<br /><br />What does this tell you?. Common sense. Most successful prog's cheat in one way or another. They do it blatantly or in a clandestine way. If you dont believe this, you are being naive or are not in the know.<br /><br />And given what Tosh has accomplished over the past few yrs, if you think there in no chance some shenanigans have taken place, you are being naive.<br /><br />Cal heads to explode...3...2...1...:rollinglaugh: