mcdbear;708768 said:

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It was not easy and I believe it is even tougher for celebrities because they have access to so much more and always have those around them enabling them and trying to push it on them.

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:rollinglaugh:

Yeah, it is always harder for someone with a huge amount of resources to make a lifestyle change.

Imagine the burden of buying 4 acres of property in Vermont and living in a 4 bedroom coverted barnhouse, doing yoga everyday and being managed by a friendly personal assistant, and raising your daughter.

That's crazy. It is probably safer to be on a reality show so everyone can "look at me!"

KoreAmBear;708694 said:

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I think the thought is that it seems so judgmental and hypocritical to point out people's deficiencies and point them out in condescension a few hours after someone's death.

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All I see on the news is Houston being celebrated as some sort of saint. So If they shove that nonsense down my throat, I dont think its hypocritical at all to point out her deficiencies to remind people that she is NOT the kind of person that we need to mourn and remember by celebrating her life.

When you open up the paper to a front page sob story about Houston, dont forget to look in the back for a 1 sentence statement about another 18 year old kid killed in Afghanistan (thats if they even mention it)

CALigulabob;708808 said:

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All I see on the news is Houston being celebrated as some sort of saint. So If they shove that nonsense down my throat, I dont think its hypocritical at all to point out her deficiencies to remind people that she is NOT the kind of person that we need to mourn and remember by celebrating her life.

When you open up the paper to a front page sob story about Houston, dont forget to look in the back for a 1 sentence statement about another 18 year old kid killed in Afghanistan (thats if they even mention it)

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Get some help. I suggest anger management classes. It can't be healthy living life with so much hate that you rejoice at another's death and make far fetched arguments to justify it.

Tedhead03;708828 said:

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Get some help. I suggest anger management classes. It can't be healthy living life with so much hate that you rejoice at another's death and make far fetched arguments to justify it.

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Are you confusing me with Schaden? when did I ever "rejoice" over it?

KoreAmBear;708694 said:

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I think the thought is that it seems so judgmental and hypocritical to point out people's deficiencies and point them out in condescension a few hours after someone's death. Whether or not they are good examples, they are human beings with huge flaws, just like the rest of us. Whether or not someone is good, is all relative anyway. We all have done stuff that's not laudable -- and plenty I assume on this board who have been substance abusers, as the percentages show. These people live in a fishbowl and happen to have all that stuff brought out in public.

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On one hand, there is a little too much unhealthy celeb worship in this country, and we often see it when someone dies. Look how people responded after Michael Jackson passed away. Mourning a celeb as if one of your own loved ones passed on is a little bit disturbing.

But going to the other extreme and picking apart Amy Winehouse's or Joe Paterno's or Whitney Houston's life and shortcomings (much less openly mocking them) when the body isn't even cold is no better, whether you're a cable news talking head or an Internet troll.

What about hidden option 3: say nothing and back the f--- off?

510Bear;708842 said:

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On one hand, there is a little too much unhealthy celeb worship in this country, and we often see it when someone dies. Look how people responded after Michael Jackson passed away. Mourning a celeb as if one of your own loved ones passed on is a little bit disturbing.

But going to the other extreme and picking apart Amy Winehouse's or Joe Paterno's or Whitney Houston's life and shortcomings (much less openly mocking them) when the body isn't even cold is no better, whether you're a cable news talking head or an Internet troll.

What about hidden option 3: say nothing and back the f--- off?

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I think part of 1) comes from having something that was a small fixture of your life suddenly disappear, especially when it's someone that you remember growing up. Remember when Peter Jennings died? It's not like most people knew him personally, but it was still sad because he was a familiar face/voice that was always around during the evenings. His earlier smoking habit probably contributed to the lung cancer that ultimately killed him, but I don't recall a bunch of people giving him crap over it.

As for 3), I guess some people weren't taught the saying "If you don't have anything good to say, don't say it". If you let a few days pass before you start slamming someone that died, then whatever, they probably deserved it, but to badmouth and bring up a person's flaws and shortcomings just hours after they pass away is bush league and an indication of how distasteful some people are.

...baby portobellla mushrooms and carmelized onions are also good

pingpong2;708846 said:

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.. to badmouth and bring up a person's flaws and shortcomings just hours after they pass away is bush league and an indication of how distasteful some people are.

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yup.

510Bear;708842 said:

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On one hand, there is a little too much unhealthy celeb worship in this country, and we often see it when someone dies. Look how people responded after Michael Jackson passed away. Mourning a celeb as if one of your own loved ones passed on is a little bit disturbing.

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"I never really thought about death, until Princess Diana died. That was the saddest funeral ever. That and my sister's." -- Kelly Kapoor

MoragaBear;709084 said:

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More proof that drugs don't pay:

21 real life before and after pictures: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41787410/ns/health-addictions/t/shocking-mug-shots-reveal-toll-drug-abuse/

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SchadenBear;708554 said:

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When someone enjoys the fruits of fame most everyone else will never recieve, why wouldn't I chuckle when their grand lifestyle leads to their downfall?

This is not a complicated human drama. It is actually more like the childhood fable of the race between the tortoise and the hare.

That is the better message that should be taken from Houston's death, rather than snivelling on the internet and posting such fake messages like RIP.

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The first time you did it this thread, okay, maybe it was a typo, but not two times:

Repeat after me, "i before e, EXCEPT AFTER C..."

Big C_Cal;709103 said:

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Repeat after me, "i before e, EXCEPT AFTER C..."

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Yah, I know. I have to seriously check my typing when in a professional context. I don't do normal typing as I transfered to wood shop after taking one week of typing in HS.

I use a hybrid hunt and peck memory technique which can fail me if I don't have spell check.

For some reason recieve, **** I just did it again, fails my fingers.

SchadenBear;708789 said:

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:rollinglaugh:

Yeah, it is always harder for someone with a huge amount of resources to make a lifestyle change.

Imagine the burden of buying 4 acres of property in Vermont and living in a 4 bedroom coverted barnhouse, doing yoga everyday and being managed by a friendly personal assistant, and raising your daughter.

That's crazy. It is probably safer to be on a reality show so everyone can "look at me!"

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Actually I think you just inadvertently pinpointed the reason why it's harder for someone with a huge amount of resources to beat drug addiction: they have plenty of money and people around to act as enablers for their habit. Someone who hits rock bottom and loses everything because of addiction may actually have a greater motivation to get out of it.

sycasey;709110 said:

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Actually I think you just inadvertently pinpointed the reason why it's harder for someone with a huge amount of resources to beat drug addiction: they have plenty of money and people around to act as enablers for their habit. Someone who hits rock bottom and loses everything because of addiction may actually have a greater motivation to get out of it.

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Well Whitney has certainly hit rock bottom now. However I doubt that this was her first health scare related to her drug addictions.

Frankly I don't care about people with huge amounts of resources who insist on feeding their self-will and repeatedly get into societal problems. This time it killed this woman.

I do however feel for Whitney’s daughter, she's the one who has had to deal with this all of her life. She was the innocent one, who never asked for the unstable life she was brought into. As for Whitney, she was an adult and made the choices she made of her own free will.

Houston had the money and her name, to go reinvent herself, and invest in doing something else worthwhile that did not involve a party scene. She could have gone to Africa, and worked with orphans. She could have moved to Paris and raised her daughter in anonymity. She could have moved to Vermont and made apple based baby food for a living.

The world was her oyster, but instead she chose to live in front of the camera. So I cannot feel sorry for Whitney.

okaydo;708566 said:

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Can you list 10 non-famous people whose voices are better or as good as Whitney's, with links to their YouTube videos? Thank you.

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Oh yeah. Some better singers than Whitney Houston.

Susan Boyle, Eva Cassidy, Elaine Paige, Maria Callas, Angela Gheorghiu, Anna Netrebko, Rene Flemming-Listen, Grace Bumbry, Sarah Vaughan, Judith Durham, and Elkie Brooks.

Judge for yourself.

SchadenBear---the way I look at it, addiction is a disease. If one doesn't treat it, the same way one might treat cancer, one will eventually die or end up in jail. She had a disease. Most of us don't. She didn't treat it. Have a little sympathy.

Think of it this way---imagine you had to give up Cal sports alltogether, no games, no tv, no radio, no newspapers, no Bear Insider---could you?

StillABear;709121 said:

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SchadenBear---the way I look at it, addiction is a disease. If one doesn't treat it, the same way one might treat cancer, one will eventually die or end up in jail. She had a disease. Most of us don't. She didn't treat it. Have a little sympathy

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Pedophilia is an addiction/disease and since it is sexually oriented, it can be argued that it is harder to control than a drug addiction. Are we suppose to feel sympathy for them?

No we dont because all addictions/diseases arent the same. Just like how we tend to look at alcoholics in a better light than crackheads.

For me its not that she was solely a crackhead, its the fact that our society/media are celebrating a crackhead as some kind of hero.

ya, but she was a crackhead with money.

SchadenBear;709114 said:

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Oh yeah. Some better singers than Whitney Houston.

Susan Boyle, Eva Cassidy, Elaine Paige, Maria Callas, Angela Gheorghiu, Anna Netrebko, Rene Flemming-Listen, Grace Bumbry, Sarah Vaughan, Judith Durham, and Elkie Brooks.

Judge for yourself.

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Wow! Those are all "non-famous" people?!?!

I'm pretty sure Susan Boyle is a worldwide sensation.

SchadenBear;709112 said:

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The world was her oyster, but instead she chose to live in front of the camera. So I cannot feel sorry for Whitney.

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What camera did she live in front of these past few years?

I haven't seen her on TV in ages.

I agree that she shouldn't be treated as a hero. In fact, just another example of a person with extraordinary talents that fell to addiction. For that, I suggest sympathy, not idolization. I don't think drug addiciton and pedophilia are remotely comparable. Drug addiction should be treated. Pedophiles should be eliminated.

CALigulabob;709127 said:

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For me its not that she was solely a crackhead, its the fact that our society/media are celebrating a crackhead as some kind of hero.

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Who is celebrating her as a hero? They might be celebrating her singing talent, but I don't think anyone is calling her a hero.

SchadenBear;709112 said:

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Frankly I don't care about people with huge amounts of resources who insist on feeding their self-will and repeatedly get into societal problems. This time it killed this woman.

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Yes, well, some of us learned compassion for others, even others who made their own mistakes. The rest are sociopaths.

SchadenBear;708458 said:

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She died at the Beverly Hills Hilton.

Doesn't she live in LA?

Why would she be there?

Truth be told I don't have alot of sympathy for her. There are ways to kick a crack habit but she apparently didn't want to make the lifestyle change.

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I agree. She could have been double huge, but chose drugs over her career. She was a mess, unfortunately.

AirOski;709182 said:

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I agree. She could have been double huge, but chose Bobby Brown over her career. She was a mess, unfortunately.

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FIFY :p.

okaydo;709142 said:

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Wow! Those are all "non-famous" people?!?!

I'm pretty sure Susan Boyle is a worldwide sensation.

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There's plenty of celebrities who view the camera simply as something they are required to deal with professionally but on their own time, they want to be as far away as they can from the limelight.

Someone like Susan Boyle will likely view the limelight as a necessary evil and will want to spend as little time as possible there.....

sycasey;709155 said:

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Who is celebrating her as a hero? They might be celebrating her singing talent, but I don't think anyone is calling her a hero.

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http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/02/whitney_houston_flags_half-sta.html

NJ governor flying flags at half mast is exactly what im talking about. National heroes get that dignity and its bullsh*t they are doing it for her

CALigulabob;710153 said:

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http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/02/whitney_houston_flags_half-sta.html

NJ governor flying flags at half mast is exactly what im talking about. National heroes get that dignity and its bullsh*t they are doing it for her

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Okay, I will agree that this is too much.

Bump, because how she died, and what famous recovering addicts think about it, is about to come out.