Moraga Country Club

14,630 Views | 63 Replies | Last: 13 yr ago by SchadenBear
pjlbear
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to SchadenBear • 9:26p, 6/7/12
SchadenBear;841898675 said:
Moraga Country Club board of directors email exchange.

The decision was made by Thomas Enberg after last second messages from MCC "members, including Ruth Burke." Enberg feels that there is "much more to this story than meets the eye." Enberg believes that Kristen "should not have been invited to speak in the first place," that it was politically risky and that the best alternative was to cancell her appearance.

Judge what you will from that.


As a fellow Moragan (and my daughter was classmates with Kristen) I would love to hear "The rest of the story" the part that is "much more than meets the eye." It sound pretty whimpy to me to make a decision and hide behind "there is more than meets the eye." Why not tell us "the rest of the story" behind your decision?

To have a point of view/make a decision in light of overwhelming opposition if you are right is a real character strength. However, if you have a point of view/make a decision in light of overwhelming opposition and you are wrong then you are a stubborn fool. Burden of proof is on Enberg.

And I won't believe any comment about what Kristen hypothetically might say off topic. To pile on and hypothesize that Kristen doesn't have integrity and would say something inappropriate to the young swimmers is BS. I wonder if Mr. Enberg ever talked to Kristen about the parameters of her appearance. If he did and and Kristen told him she was going to talk about her most unfortuante experience then maybe he gets some slack. If he never had such a conversation with Kristen then not only is he a stubborn fool but a complete jerk. Until I hear proof otherwise, in my opinion Enberg is the stubborn fool.
Reply Quote
bearister
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to Beardog26 • 9:36p, 6/7/12
Beardog26;841898673 said:
I know him, though not well. He goes to our church ....


He's not a member of the hierarchy of the Catholic Church like a bishop or cardinal is he?

Reply Quote
Beardog26
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to bearister • 9:46p, 6/7/12
My church is not Catholic but (perhaps as a result?) I laughed at your post.
Reply Quote
pjlbear
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to SchadenBear • 9:46p, 6/7/12
Let's see if I got this right, Witters abused children and committed suicide. Correa pleaded guilty. Some people support Walters while some others feel that the evidence shows he did not do everything posible to protect the children (apparently supported by documents uncovered by the Contra Costa Times).

I just wonder how these people who feel that MCC is taking sides regarding Kristen coaching swimming would feel if their child had been sexually abused and the principal had not done everything possible to protect their children?
Reply Quote
bearfan
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to pjlbear • 9:54p, 6/7/12
pjlbear;841898689 said:
Let's see if I got this right, Witters abused children and committed suicide. Correa pleaded guilty. Some people support Walters while some others fell that the evidence shows he did not do everything posible to protect the children.

I just wonder how these people who feel that MCC is taking sides regarding Kristen coaching swimming would feel if their child had been sexually abused and the principal had not done everything possible to protect their children?


These people obviously don't have kids.
Reply Quote
pjlbear
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to SchadenBear • 9:54p, 6/7/12
SchadenBear;841898675 said:
Moraga Country Club board of directors email exchange.

The decision was made by Thomas Enberg after last second messages from MCC "members, including Ruth Burke.**" Enberg feels that there is "much more to this story than meets the eye." Enberg believes that Kristen "should not have been invited to speak in the first place," that it was politically risky and that the best alternative was to cancell her appearance.

Judge what you will from that.

** Ruth Burke


One more thing:

"Politically risky" is grounds for censorship?

What happend to freedom of speech? Is this Russia, North Korea, Syria, etc.?

The more one tries to hide stuff like this the more people want to know who, what, when, why, etc.
Reply Quote
mighty bears
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to bearister • 10:28p, 6/7/12
Bearister,
This incident did not have anything to do with the Catholic Church. Using this as an opportunity to disparage Catholic clergy was inappropriate. I wish you to know that the vast majority of Catholic bishops and cardinals are good people who have devoted their lives to helping others and to serving God.
Reply Quote
pjlbear
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to SchadenBear • 10:35p, 6/7/12
So lets see if I can understand the support of Walters. Are they supporting him because they know him and like him or are they supporting him because they have hard evidence that he did everything possible to report the abuse and protect other children? I would love to hear the answers from the supporters.
Reply Quote
MoragaBear
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to SchadenBear • 11:47p, 6/7/12
I know Bill Walters. He's the principal for my youngest child and was also principal to my other two kids. I also went to the elementary school where he's principal till tomorrow.

I know Tom Engberg (Enberg is a misspelling) and I know his college-age daughter from our youth group, as well.

I know Ruth Burke from our elementary school that's she's the pta president for. She was our attorney for our living trust.

All of them are nice people and not evil jerks.

I don't know if Tom made the decision on his own or was pressed to make the decision by people like Ruth but it was a STUPID decision and one that the board and club members clearly and strenuously disagree with. I'll definitely ask him about it and express my strong disagreement with the decision.

I doubt Ruth thinks what Bill did was okay. She probably just made an uninformed decision that Kristen was asked to speak very recently and had suspicions that her appearance could potentially be a forum for speaking out against Walters on the eve of his retirement. Obviously, that was not the case. Doesn't sound like she knew the timeline or background on Kristen's planned appearance. That's no excuse. She should've stayed out of it.

I don't care how many people speak out against Bill and in what forums it's done in. It's the natural consequence for him not speaking out and doing everything in his power to protect his students and put an end to the inexcusable abuse when he was principal at JM, the middle school he used to be principal at and where I also attended 15 years or so before these events occurred.

In my experience, Bill's a non-confrontational, laconic kind of guy and that probably played into his not pursuing this issue vigorously. Sorry, but when you're principal, you HAVE to be confrontational when it comes to things like this.

The crazy part of the story, is that the abuse accusations that he didn't pursue more than half-heartedly were first brought to his attention by Julie Correa, a PE teacher at the same school as the original abuser, Dan Witters. Then she turns around and becomes or was discovered to be a serial sexual abuser of young girls, herself.

I don't know why some are so quick to paint the people of Moraga as ignorant or worse. It's been pointed out repeatedly in this thread that virtually anyone who's heard of the decision is appalled.

As for teachers and whatever few others came to support Correa at the trials back when they happened, you'll find in every community that there are charismatic and popular teachers that co-workers and others are always quick to believe because "that's not the person they know." Inevitably, the abuser paints the victim as a troubled child, desperately seeking attention and some gullible people buy it.

This could and does easily happen anywhere.
Reply Quote Next Staff
socaliganbear
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to MoragaBear • 2:28a, 6/8/12
This can and does happen anywhere, and it's embarrassing, shameful, and inexcusable every time it does.
Reply Quote
taxbear
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to SchadenBear • 6:23a, 6/8/12
I've read the email exchange and it's clear that Engberg took it upon himself to make the decision. One guy, not the whole town. He's scrambling for reasons why he made the decision, and that "explanation" (basically, that this is really complex and I had to act quickly) is the best he can come up with. The email exchange gives an awfully clear picture of the "process".
Reply Quote
MSaviolives
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to taxbear • 8:29a, 6/8/12
Quote:
I don't know why some are so quick to paint the people of Moraga as ignorant or worse. It's been pointed out repeatedly in this thread that virtually anyone who's heard of the decision is appalled.


Tribalism. My people would never do such a thing, we are better than those people.... this explains so much, whether our tribe is our political party, school, religion, or....community...it always feels good to be superior doesn't it?
Reply Quote
oskihasahearton
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to MoragaBear • 9:11a, 6/8/12
Perhaps it is because Moraga like many/most communities is insular --- a "valley of the dolls" vernacular perhaps. These hideous and avoidable episodes are scrutinized, rescrutinized and written in the annals of shame and even become folklore. No amount of demonizing the perps or those who failed to act can heal the victims or the community. An assault upon a child or an old person of the community is an assault upon everyone.
Reply Quote
taxbear
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to MSaviolives • 10:42a, 6/8/12
Huh? Is your post in response to mine or to someone else's post?
Reply Quote
oskihasahearton
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to taxbear • 11:38a, 6/8/12
taxbear;841898741 said:
Huh? Is your post in response to mine our to someone else's post?


...re: response to...
Reply Quote
taxbear
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to oskihasahearton • 11:53a, 6/8/12
Thanks.
Reply Quote
MoragaBear
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to oskihasahearton • 12:36p, 6/8/12
Moraga's not insular at all and if you lived in the area, you'd hardly consider it valley of the dolls-esque.

There's a huge Berkeley influence and all that entails on the community with so many Cal grads. It's a much different mindset than your typical small town community. There's a very large emphasis on community service (much of it outside our community) and political awareness. Every year, over 250 students and adults from our church take the whole spring break and spend it building 13 homes for impoverished families in the Tijuana countryside. Most students do it all four years of their high school life instead of tanning in Hawaii. Tom Engberg (the person who made the poor decision to ban Kristen)has been on the last seven trips.

People make bad decisions and do bad things sometimes. You can't always blame it on the community it occurs in. It's certainly not representative of this community.
Reply Quote Next Staff
bearister
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to mighty bears • 12:36p, 6/8/12
mighty bears;841898695 said:
Bearister,
This incident did not have anything to do with the Catholic Church. Using this as an opportunity to disparage Catholic clergy was inappropriate. I wish you to know that the vast majority of Catholic bishops and cardinals are good people who have devoted their lives to helping others and to serving God.


I saw an analogous situation so I drew the comparison. I am a Mass attending Catholic, but I will continue to needle the Catholic hierarchy until the day they publicly acknowledge that the child rape crisis (not "clergy misconduct" as they euphemistically refer to it) grew exponentially because of their institutional response of moving the rapists around from parish to parish like they were peas in a shell game (instead they blame the crisis on the "promiscuous 1960's” as a report commissioned by the church recently concluded). At least you noted that my jab was at the hierarchy and not the rank and file priests, 99.9% of whom are good people. If the "vast majority" of cardinals and bishops are good people then they better start showing it by controlling the alleged minority of bad guys that are continuing to this day to deny their culpability in the matter and continue to engage in conduct like going after nuns for not being "doctrinally pure," when in point of fact it is the nuns that are the living embodiment of Christian ideals. My kind of Catholic hierarchy is the Archbishop of Dublin, Ireland, because of the honest and forthright manner in which he responded to the child rape crisis. He is on the Vatican "hit list" because of his honesty with regard to the issue.:rant
Reply Quote
SiniCal
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to bearister • 12:53p, 6/8/12
bearister;841898775 said:
...My kind of Catholic hierarchy is the Archbishop of Dublin, Ireland, because of the honest and forthright manner in which he responded to the child rape crisis. He is on the Vatican "hit list" because of his honesty with regard to the issue.


Right on, tnx Bearister.
Reply Quote
oskihasahearton
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to oskihasahearton • 1:22p, 6/8/12
Perhaps...perhaps. I certainly wouldn't think it would be representative of the entire community. Good people do good things...and sometimes some of them make mistakes in judgement.

"Huge" Berkeley influence? Good grief...liberal, conservative, radical, traditional, long hair, mullet-head, bald, vegan, carnivore, omnivore, tofu top-dogger, Habitat Humanitarian, homeless, believer, athiest, agnostic, whatever...you can't get much more insular than that.
Reply Quote
MoragaBear
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to oskihasahearton • 1:45p, 6/8/12
insular:

Insular describes someone or something removed from and disinterested in other people, cultures or communities. (adjective)

A community that remains separate from others and that doesn't wish to learn about other cultures is an example of an insular community.

Sorry, don't see the connection.
Reply Quote Next Staff
oskihasahearton
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to MoragaBear • 2:00p, 6/8/12
MoragaBear;841898812 said:
insular:

Insular describes someone or something removed from and disinterested in other people, cultures or communities. (adjective)

A community that remains separate from others and that doesn't wish to learn about other cultures is an example of an insular community.

Sorry, don't see the connection.


...I see you have a sense of humor. Or a keen sense of the absurd.
Reply Quote
SpecialOlympicBear
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to oskihasahearton • 3:47p, 6/8/12
MoragaBear is defending his turf...I get it. And I have always thought of the good people of Moraga as "salt of the earth" types.

And it does happen everywhere: Walnut Creek, Lafayette, Orinda, etc. as I have been through the "system of cover up" and all of the shameless crap that comes with it dealing with my own child's assault two years ago at the hands of his HS coach.
Reply Quote
CalWBBFan
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to MilleniaBear • 8:42a, 6/9/12
MilleniaBear;841898503 said:
I'm a bit confused. I understand the supporting the victim and letting her speak. But who was the audience? Were they children? Would that be an appropriate forum for them? And were all the other speakers presenting similar presentations? Seems like a better solution might have been to arrange a 2nd session that was focussed on the subject and those that objected didn't have to attend. Cancelling the event was not a good solution.


According an intereview I heard with her on the radio yesterday the "session" was strictly going to be about swimming and her preparations as an NCAA champion.....she wasn't going to discuss what transpired with her coach at all.
Reply Quote
blungld
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to taxbear • 1:40a, 6/10/12
I hope he discloses this alleged "more than meets the eye" and gets called on the BS press release about wanting board prepared for the media. I don't know the man, but he should lose his position.
Reply Quote
MoragaBear
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to blungld • 11:58a, 6/10/12
I do know and like the man but I think he should resign or be removed, too.
Reply Quote
pjlbear
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to SpecialOlympicBear • 9:01p, 6/10/12
Special Olympic Bear,

So sorry about what you and your child have gone through.
Reply Quote
SchadenBear
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to MoragaBear • 10:03p, 6/10/12
MoragaBear;841899188 said:
I do know and like the man but I think he should resign or be removed, too.


Some are good at politics, some are good at leadership.
Reply Quote
Refresh
Page 2 of 2 ▼
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.