txwharfrat said:

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sycasey said:

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chazzed said:

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https://www.yahoo.com/news/column-astros-punishment-dodgers-pay-062919220.html

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Congratulations to the Dodgers on their Moral Victory World Championship.

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The Dodgers did lose two HOME GAMES is that series - without the dugout trash can...

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Is that really relevant? Cheating isn't cheating unless it results in a win? Kinda like PED use is ok as long as I still struggle to hit? Regardless, the Asterisks did win the Series.

TheSouseFamily said:

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GMP said:

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TheSouseFamily said:

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txwharfrat said:

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sycasey said:

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chazzed said:

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https://www.yahoo.com/news/column-astros-punishment-dodgers-pay-062919220.html

---

Congratulations to the Dodgers on their Moral Victory World Championship.

---

The Dodgers did lose two HOME GAMES is that series - without the dugout trash can...

---

Is that really relevant? Cheating isn't cheating unless it results in a win? Kinda like PED use is ok as long as I still struggle to hit? Regardless, the Asterisks did win the Series.

---

The fact this scandal angers Dodgers fans makes it really great. God, you were so close. You could almost taste it.

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It has literally nothing to do with the Dodgers being involved. Anyone who gives a crap about integrity in sports should be appalled. If you think it's only Dodger fans angered by this, you're sadly mistaken.

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No, I'm with you. I just see the silver lining.

GMP said:

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TheSouseFamily said:

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GMP said:

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TheSouseFamily said:

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txwharfrat said:

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sycasey said:

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chazzed said:

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https://www.yahoo.com/news/column-astros-punishment-dodgers-pay-062919220.html

---

Congratulations to the Dodgers on their Moral Victory World Championship.

---

The Dodgers did lose two HOME GAMES is that series - without the dugout trash can...

---

Is that really relevant? Cheating isn't cheating unless it results in a win? Kinda like PED use is ok as long as I still struggle to hit? Regardless, the Asterisks did win the Series.

---

The fact this scandal angers Dodgers fans makes it really great. God, you were so close. You could almost taste it.

---

It has literally nothing to do with the Dodgers being involved. Anyone who gives a crap about integrity in sports should be appalled. If you think it's only Dodger fans angered by this, you're sadly mistaken.

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No, I'm with you. I just see the silver lining.

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I also suspect that as with steroid use, there were a lot of teams doing it.

sycasey said:

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GMP said:

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TheSouseFamily said:

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GMP said:

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TheSouseFamily said:

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txwharfrat said:

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sycasey said:

---

chazzed said:

---

https://www.yahoo.com/news/column-astros-punishment-dodgers-pay-062919220.html

---

Congratulations to the Dodgers on their Moral Victory World Championship.

---

The Dodgers did lose two HOME GAMES is that series - without the dugout trash can...

---

Is that really relevant? Cheating isn't cheating unless it results in a win? Kinda like PED use is ok as long as I still struggle to hit? Regardless, the Asterisks did win the Series.

---

The fact this scandal angers Dodgers fans makes it really great. God, you were so close. You could almost taste it.

---

It has literally nothing to do with the Dodgers being involved. Anyone who gives a crap about integrity in sports should be appalled. If you think it's only Dodger fans angered by this, you're sadly mistaken.

---

No, I'm with you. I just see the silver lining.

---

I also suspect that as with steroid use, there were a lot of teams doing it.

---

My understanding is that this sigh stealing thing is huge and prevalent on all teams. Clearly the Astro's did this effectively and via a new method. But I think most of the hand-wringing is by teams that didn't realize they could have done this and won.

Just like the PED thing with Bonds. Sure - I guess - he pumped up. Everyone else did too. And they still are. But he got busted and is not getting into the hall...even though he clearly should be. Baseball has a lot of self-righteous guys who think for the good of the game, etc. But the entire history of baseball is how to best cheat - from the very beginning. I love Pete Rose's comments on this - "oh my god - I would never do that!'.

From the perspective of a sorta baseball fan - who cares? This is no different than the host of things they have done decades.

I'm a Giants fan, but I definitely can see why LA fans are pissed about this. Heck, I'm still mad that each of the two best Cal football teams of my lifetime, 1991 and 2004, had the bad luck to exist in a year in which the conference also featured an undefeated team that went on to win or share the national championship...and, of course, each of those undefeated teams was later shown, to no one's surprise, to have been cheating.

I'm glad to see at least some of the people involved in this baseball scandal being punished.

TheSouseFamily said:

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sycasey said:

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chazzed said:

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https://www.yahoo.com/news/column-astros-punishment-dodgers-pay-062919220.html

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Congratulations to the Dodgers on their Moral Victory World Championship.

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I haven't heard any Dodger fan suggest they have any claim on a title.

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*cough*

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28531536/resolution-urges-mlb-strip-astros-red-sox-world-series-titles-award-dodgers

sycasey said:

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TheSouseFamily said:

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sycasey said:

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chazzed said:

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https://www.yahoo.com/news/column-astros-punishment-dodgers-pay-062919220.html

---

Congratulations to the Dodgers on their Moral Victory World Championship.

---

I haven't heard any Dodger fan suggest they have any claim on a title.

---

*cough*

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28531536/resolution-urges-mlb-strip-astros-red-sox-world-series-titles-award-dodgers

---

Ok, you win. Ha. But this is pretty silly. Just a government entity pandering to the locals. I certainly don't believe the Dodgers deserve the title and personally don't know anyone that thinks that. But, I'm 100% on board with stripping the Asterisks of the title. If you rob a bank and get caught, you don't get to keep the money.

Dodgers do deserve the title. Unlike the Giants where only a few players were caught using HGH or steroids, the entire Astros team was cheating.

That is ridiculous. Regardless of what the cheating teams did or didn't do to break the rules, the Dodgers didn't win the World Series. I wouldn't want the Olympic gold metal if I finished second and the winner tested positive for steroids. I'm a Dodgers fan and am not buying this crap at all. Win four games in the WS or you have no claim to a title, IMO.

oski003 said:

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Dodgers do deserve the title. Unlike the Giants where only a few players were caught using HGH, the entire Astros team was cheating.

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Beardog26 said:

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That is ridiculous. Regardless of what the cheating teams did or didn't do to break the rules, the Dodgers didn't win the World Series. I wouldn't want the Olympic gold metal if I finished second and the winner tested positive for steroids. I'm a Dodgers fan and am not buying this crap at all. Win four games in the WS or you have no claim to a title, IMO.

---

I somewhat agree. I do think the Astros should forfeit their trophy and rings . Otherwise. You send a message that cheating has no real consequences.

Also,a HUGH banner should be setup in centerfield that says "Astros are cheaters " and keep it there all season.

I agree with that, there should be a fairly large punishment heaped on the Astros (and probably also the Red Sox). However, the LA City Council is crazy to petition for the 2017 and 2018 WS titles to be retroactively awarded to the Dodgers. They didn't earn such titles, and shouldn't be given them.

Same as Reggie Bush having his Heisman trophy subsequently taken away. Doesn't mean the second place finisher should be retroactively awarded the trophy for that year.

The whole mess stinks. They have so-called "unwritten rules" not to steal a base, or swing on 3-0 counts, when up by however many runs, or to avoid bat-flips after home runs, but hey, let's use modern technology to steal the other team's signs and communicate that to teammates during in-game at-bats. Gives baseball a black eye, IMO.

Beardog26 said:

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I agree with that, there should be a fairly large punishment heaped on the Astros (and probably also the Red Sox). However, the LA City Council is crazy to petition for the 2017 and 2018 WS titles to be retroactively awarded to the Dodgers. They didn't earn such titles, and shouldn't be given them.

Same as Reggie Bush having his Heisman trophy subsequently taken away. Doesn't mean the second place finisher should be retroactively awarded the trophy for that year.

The whole mess stinks. They have so-called "unwritten rules" not to steal a base, or swing on 3-0 counts, when up by however many runs, or to avoid bat-flips after home runs, but hey, let's use modern technology to steal the other team's signs and communicate that to teammates during in-game at-bats. Gives baseball a black eye, IMO.

---

While I agree that the Heisman runner up shouldn't get the trophy, at least he has a very strong argument that he would have won the trophy if Bush weren't in the running.

The World Series loser? Why favor the 2017 Dodgers over the Yankees who lost in the ALCS 4-3 to the Astros? Gee, both lost to the Astros 4-3 in a 7 game series, so who deserves the World Series title more? Right, neither. Cleveland, the Yankees, and the A's might all have won the World Series in 2018 if not for the cheating Red Sox and Astros. Might. We'll just never know.

Nobody has a legitimate claim to being a World Series champion unless they won the World Series. But leave it to a bunch of politicians to argue for it.

Can't disagree with any of that, Cal8285.

TheSouseFamily said:

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sycasey said:

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TheSouseFamily said:

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sycasey said:

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chazzed said:

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https://www.yahoo.com/news/column-astros-punishment-dodgers-pay-062919220.html

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Congratulations to the Dodgers on their Moral Victory World Championship.

---

I haven't heard any Dodger fan suggest they have any claim on a title.

---

*cough*

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28531536/resolution-urges-mlb-strip-astros-red-sox-world-series-titles-award-dodgers

---

Ok, you win. Ha. But this is pretty silly. Just a government entity pandering to the locals. I certainly don't believe the Dodgers deserve the title and personally don't know anyone that thinks that. But, I'm 100% on board with stripping the Asterisks of the title. If you rob a bank and get caught, you don't get to keep the money.

---

Yes, but - if they are pandering to the locals, Dodger fans, then they are pandering to Dodger fans who are claiming what you said you haven't seen any Dodger fans claim.

Considering former major leaguer Logan Morrison claims the Dodgers, among other teams, also used video to steal signs, the Dodgers and their fans should tread lightly.

GMP said:

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TheSouseFamily said:

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sycasey said:

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TheSouseFamily said:

---

sycasey said:

---

chazzed said:

---

https://www.yahoo.com/news/column-astros-punishment-dodgers-pay-062919220.html

---

Congratulations to the Dodgers on their Moral Victory World Championship.

---

I haven't heard any Dodger fan suggest they have any claim on a title.

---

*cough*

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28531536/resolution-urges-mlb-strip-astros-red-sox-world-series-titles-award-dodgers

---

Ok, you win. Ha. But this is pretty silly. Just a government entity pandering to the locals. I certainly don't believe the Dodgers deserve the title and personally don't know anyone that thinks that. But, I'm 100% on board with stripping the Asterisks of the title. If you rob a bank and get caught, you don't get to keep the money.

---

Yes, but - if they are pandering to the locals, Dodger fans, then they are pandering to Dodger fans who are claiming what you said you haven't seen any Dodger fans claim.

---

Bingo. The local L.A. politicians wouldn't do this if they didn't think it would play well with local fans.

Dodgers writer at The Atheltic

LA Times:

Dodgers writer at True Blue LA / Dodgers Digest

Jomboy

David Freese

oski003 said:

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Dodgers do deserve the title. Unlike the Giants where only a few players were caught using HGH, the entire Astros team was cheating.

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"...only a few players..."

Please elaborate, who were the guys who got caught using HGH?

TheSouseFamily said:

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Dodgers writer at The Atheltic

LA Times:

Dodgers writer at True Blue LA / Dodgers Digest

Jomboy

David Freese

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Looks like these writers are in the same position you were: assuming that "no Dodgers fans" want this when it seems that in fact they do.

sycasey said:

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GMP said:

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TheSouseFamily said:

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sycasey said:

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TheSouseFamily said:

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sycasey said:

---

chazzed said:

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https://www.yahoo.com/news/column-astros-punishment-dodgers-pay-062919220.html

---

Congratulations to the Dodgers on their Moral Victory World Championship.

---

I haven't heard any Dodger fan suggest they have any claim on a title.

---

*cough*

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28531536/resolution-urges-mlb-strip-astros-red-sox-world-series-titles-award-dodgers

---

Ok, you win. Ha. But this is pretty silly. Just a government entity pandering to the locals. I certainly don't believe the Dodgers deserve the title and personally don't know anyone that thinks that. But, I'm 100% on board with stripping the Asterisks of the title. If you rob a bank and get caught, you don't get to keep the money.

---

Yes, but - if they are pandering to the locals, Dodger fans, then they are pandering to Dodger fans who are claiming what you said you haven't seen any Dodger fans claim.

---

Bingo. The local L.A. politicians wouldn't do this if they didn't think it would play well with local fans.

---

This assumes that the LA City Council is in touch with the needs and desires of its constituencies. I'm not sure that is often the case.

brcal69 said:

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sycasey said:

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GMP said:

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TheSouseFamily said:

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sycasey said:

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TheSouseFamily said:

---

sycasey said:

---

chazzed said:

---

https://www.yahoo.com/news/column-astros-punishment-dodgers-pay-062919220.html

---

Congratulations to the Dodgers on their Moral Victory World Championship.

---

I haven't heard any Dodger fan suggest they have any claim on a title.

---

*cough*

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28531536/resolution-urges-mlb-strip-astros-red-sox-world-series-titles-award-dodgers

---

Ok, you win. Ha. But this is pretty silly. Just a government entity pandering to the locals. I certainly don't believe the Dodgers deserve the title and personally don't know anyone that thinks that. But, I'm 100% on board with stripping the Asterisks of the title. If you rob a bank and get caught, you don't get to keep the money.

---

Yes, but - if they are pandering to the locals, Dodger fans, then they are pandering to Dodger fans who are claiming what you said you haven't seen any Dodger fans claim.

---

Bingo. The local L.A. politicians wouldn't do this if they didn't think it would play well with local fans.

---

This assumes that the LA City Council is in touch with the needs and desires of its constituencies. I'm not sure that is often the case.

---

They must be hearing from someone.

Meh. It's always the loud, angry and vocal minority that gets the attention.

TheSouseFamily said:

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Meh. It's always the loud, angry and vocal minority that gets the attention.

---

So in other words, there must be SOME Dodger fans clamoring for this.

Dodgers = not winners
Astros = losers

sycasey said:

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TheSouseFamily said:

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Meh. It's always the loud, angry and vocal minority that gets the attention.

---

So in other words, there must be SOME Dodger fans clamoring for this.

---

Haha. I admire your persistence, sycasey. YES, there are SOME Dodger fans who think this way. Like I said before, you win!

Sycasey: 1
TheSouseFamily: 0

71Bear said:

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oski003 said:

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Dodgers do deserve the title. Unlike the Giants where only a few players were caught using HGH, the entire Astros team was cheating.

---

"...only a few players..."

Please elaborate, who were the guys who got caught using HGH?

---

Well, Jose Guillen didn't get caught using, but his wife was caught having HGH delivered to her, at least implying use by Jose.

And because MLB essentially told the Giants to leave him off the 2010 roster (the Giants claimed a pinched nerve in his neck, even though he was fine starting the final game of the season, but everybody knows it was the HGH issue), Cody Ross became the starting right fielder. Ross was the NLCS MVP and would have been the NLDS MVP if they had one.

So while Guillen didn't have meaningful contribution on the field to the division title in his month and a half with the team, the delivery of HGH to his wife heavily contributed to the Giants getting to the World Series by causing the Giants to leave Guillen off the post-season roster and start Ross.

sycasey said:

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brcal69 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

GMP said:

---

TheSouseFamily said:

---

sycasey said:

---

TheSouseFamily said:

---

sycasey said:

---

chazzed said:

---

https://www.yahoo.com/news/column-astros-punishment-dodgers-pay-062919220.html

---

Congratulations to the Dodgers on their Moral Victory World Championship.

---

I haven't heard any Dodger fan suggest they have any claim on a title.

---

*cough*

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28531536/resolution-urges-mlb-strip-astros-red-sox-world-series-titles-award-dodgers

---

Ok, you win. Ha. But this is pretty silly. Just a government entity pandering to the locals. I certainly don't believe the Dodgers deserve the title and personally don't know anyone that thinks that. But, I'm 100% on board with stripping the Asterisks of the title. If you rob a bank and get caught, you don't get to keep the money.

---

Yes, but - if they are pandering to the locals, Dodger fans, then they are pandering to Dodger fans who are claiming what you said you haven't seen any Dodger fans claim.

---

Bingo. The local L.A. politicians wouldn't do this if they didn't think it would play well with local fans.

---

This assumes that the LA City Council is in touch with the needs and desires of its constituencies. I'm not sure that is often the case.

---

They must be hearing from someone.

---

Probably, but sometimes it takes only one Council member hearing from one or two constituents to create a "consensus." Ofttimes, they just guess.

Cal8285 said:

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71Bear said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Dodgers do deserve the title. Unlike the Giants where only a few players were caught using HGH, the entire Astros team was cheating.

---

"...only a few players..."

Please elaborate, who were the guys who got caught using HGH?

---

Well, Jose Guillen didn't get caught using, but his wife was caught having HGH delivered to her, at least implying use by Jose.

And because MLB essentially told the Giants to leave him off the 2010 roster (the Giants claimed a pinched nerve in his neck, even though he was fine starting the final game of the season, but everybody knows it was the HGH issue), Cody Ross became the starting right fielder. Ross was the NLCS MVP and would have been the NLDS MVP if they had one.

So while Guillen didn't have meaningful contribution on the field to the division title in his month and a half with the team, the delivery of HGH to his wife heavily contributed to the Giants getting to the World Series by causing the Giants to leave Guillen off the post-season roster and start Ross.

---

As far as I know, Melky Cabrera was the only other giants player who got caught in that time period. Was Guillen the supplier? What kind of organization ethically plays Barry Bonds? Did the steroids end after Balco (The Bay Area Laboratory Co-operative)? Does this have anything to do with the Stanfurd glove?

TheSouseFamily said:

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sycasey said:

---

TheSouseFamily said:

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Meh. It's always the loud, angry and vocal minority that gets the attention.

---

So in other words, there must be SOME Dodger fans clamoring for this.

---

Haha. I admire your persistence, sycasey. YES, there are SOME Dodger fans who think this way. Like I said before, you win!

Sycasey: 1
TheSouseFamily: 0

---

I accept this victory.

oski003 said:

---

Cal8285 said:

---

71Bear said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Dodgers do deserve the title. Unlike the Giants where only a few players were caught using HGH, the entire Astros team was cheating.

---

"...only a few players..."

Please elaborate, who were the guys who got caught using HGH?

---

Well, Jose Guillen didn't get caught using, but his wife was caught having HGH delivered to her, at least implying use by Jose.

And because MLB essentially told the Giants to leave him off the 2010 roster (the Giants claimed a pinched nerve in his neck, even though he was fine starting the final game of the season, but everybody knows it was the HGH issue), Cody Ross became the starting right fielder. Ross was the NLCS MVP and would have been the NLDS MVP if they had one.

So while Guillen didn't have meaningful contribution on the field to the division title in his month and a half with the team, the delivery of HGH to his wife heavily contributed to the Giants getting to the World Series by causing the Giants to leave Guillen off the post-season roster and start Ross.

---

As far as I know, Melky Cabrera was the only other player who got caught in that time period. Was Guillen the supplier? What kind of organization ethically plays Barry Bonds? Did the steroids end after Balco (The Bay Area Laboratory Co-operative)? Does this have anything to do with the Stanfurd glove?

---

Pretty sure Bartolo Colon was also suspended that year.

oski003 said:

---

Cal8285 said:

---

71Bear said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Dodgers do deserve the title. Unlike the Giants where only a few players were caught using HGH, the entire Astros team was cheating.

---

"...only a few players..."

Please elaborate, who were the guys who got caught using HGH?

---

Well, Jose Guillen didn't get caught using, but his wife was caught having HGH delivered to her, at least implying use by Jose.

And because MLB essentially told the Giants to leave him off the 2010 roster (the Giants claimed a pinched nerve in his neck, even though he was fine starting the final game of the season, but everybody knows it was the HGH issue), Cody Ross became the starting right fielder. Ross was the NLCS MVP and would have been the NLDS MVP if they had one.

So while Guillen didn't have meaningful contribution on the field to the division title in his month and a half with the team, the delivery of HGH to his wife heavily contributed to the Giants getting to the World Series by causing the Giants to leave Guillen off the post-season roster and start Ross.

---

As far as I know, Melky Cabrera was the only other player who got caught in that time period. Was Guillen the supplier? What kind of organization ethically plays Barry Bonds? Did the steroids end after Balco (The Bay Area Laboratory Co-operative)? Does this have anything to do with the Stanfurd glove?

---

Guillen is the only player ever suspended while a Giant for HGH (hence, my original question). Cabrera was suspended for using other substances.

As far as Bonds is concerned, he was never suspended for using banned substances. Therefore, there is no reason the Giants should have stopped playing him. The steroids era was not about any one guy whether it be Clemens, Bonds or anyone else. It was about the game turning a blind eye until the media created such an uproar, leadership had to do something.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/8271981/melky-cabrera-san-francisco-giants-suspended-50-games

I guess Cabrera was using other steroids, not HGH!

By the way, you can increase your HGH naturally via intermittent fasting. It's more in the province of extended fasting than traditional 16/8-like intermittent fasting. But, a simple 5 day fast will triple your HGH level. I bet Wilcox does that.